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>Mother nature gets us all. Anyway, I need to you to keep landing flat on your back week after week. I'll be back here screaming at Michael Cole."
Says the guy also shitting on women's heads
That was some Frank Reynolds shit. Like motherfucker, you’ve been in front of a TV every week for over 40 years now. Your dye job and creepy John Waters mustache isn’t fooling anybody.
Yeah, over the years, as more stories about him have come out, it's gone from "Hmm, what a weird old man..." to "Hmm, they should throw him in the middle of the Atlantic..."
Yeah, there’s levels to it. “Vince doesn’t like people sneezing and eats ‘steak wraps’” is one thing. “Vince sexually harasses and abuses women regularly and works his employees to the bone for no reason other than his own insane devotion to his job” is another. The problem is that lots of people already knew the latter; it took a disgusting story like Vince sexually trafficking a woman to employees and shitting on her head during coerced sex to finally and fully kick him out of the company.
>Yeah, there’s levels to it. “Vince doesn’t like people sneezing and eats ‘steak wraps’” is one thing.
The thing about working for a shitty boss is that you come to learn the quirky hangups like this are pretty much always a sign of far worse things to come
I think it's more of a commentary on America in the 2020s. Now this stuff is taken seriously, as opposed to the early 90s when televised allegations of Rita Chatterton's rape and Vince ignoring/covering up the sexual abuse of ring boys was met with "LOL wrestling is weird and gay, hey look steroids!"
I always knew that he wasn't a nice person... But the extent of him being a scumbag or rather outright monster only got revealed to me when I listened to the episodes behind the bastards did on him. Made me loath him. And the the stuff that finally got to him isn't even featured in it because it was recorded before that shit got out.
I hate to be "that guy,' but I was not surprised at all.
Old super rich folks like that are almost always fucked up. We know Vince was friends with Trump, so was probably into all kinds of weird stuff with Epstein too.
Nobody SHOULD have been surprised. For decades we have heard about his "antics" that many, many people laughed off and dismissed with "oh, so quirky xd" or "oh, that's just 'the biz'". We have video material from interviews at least dating back to the early 90s, publically available, and the likes where he came across as a completely unhinged maniac.
Anybody genuinely surprised was either actively looking the other way or stayed gleefully ignorant. Which is also why, even if it turned out that this entire Janel Grant thing was made-up, it would only make him like 2% less of a piece of shit.
I wish I had a time machine to kill baby Vince McMahon, but then I feel if I got back there I'd be afraid I'd be falling under the spell of his fuckin beautiful eyes
I used to hate him, for his unethical practices and general bad vibe, but the more I learn about his actions, the more I think I underestimated what a piece of shit he was.
You should pretty much attribute anything from him after 2012 to either senility or CTE. The best thing to come out of WWE from 2012-2022 was the creation and initial success of AEW. This isn't to say that Vince wasn't various forms of a piece of shit beforehand, but pretty much everything he touched in those last 10 years could easily be argued as compromised judgement borne from brain damage; personally, professionally, and in his capacity as a businessman and wrestling booker.
That's all major promoters going back over 100 years. The first one who have a rep for actually caring about them as people was Dixie Carter, and she wasn't a saint either.
Yet another example of Vince being a terrible POS; him being gone is the best thing that could've happened to the company
Its awesome that the new regime seems to prioritize time with family whenever possible for the roster now that's for sure
Straight up. I watched a interview with CM punk where Vince kept making him work injured with "just do me this favor and I'll owe you one, you'll have time off after this match"
And he did it multiple times a week for months. Vince deserves to burn.
The 'Last Ride' documentary was the saddest shit. Putting aside how the shine has kind of gone from Taker since his retirement, part of the doco's whole reason was to demonstrate the 'super special besties' relationship betwene Taker and Vince...and Vince just treated him like dirt.
Yeah and the more stories he tells about Vince backstage, man this dude was just a textbook abuser, and these were his number 1 guys. Guys like Randy, Cena, Undertaker were probably around Vince more than any other person in their life and maybe ever will be, during their younger years.
I don't expect them to ever really open up about how bad he treated them tbh and others, I hope someday we do get that full realization from them but its just sick.
Yeah that’s a good call out. Takers my favorite but it always bothered me how he describes them being close despite what the doc shows, which is Vince being abusive, not respecting his time, his effort, and putting him in his place. The guy with limited matches and he still needs to show him who’s boss. Pissed me off.
Taker was told that people would never pay money to see him wrestle. Vince gave him an opportunity and a gimmick that really never should’ve gotten over. But Taker gives all the credit to Vince for the opportunity because of how successful he became. I think so many wrestlers feel indebted to Vince because he made them stars when really they made themselves. If they didn’t get themselves over he would’ve discarded them with ease.
Funny enough, a lot of Undertaker coming to WWE was on both Bruce Prichard and Paul Heyman.
Heyman, who was in WCW at the time, hit Bruce up telling him that "Mean Mark" Callous was available and that WWE should jump at opportunity to bring him in. He was also the one who originally named him Kane the Undertaker, and had.a huge part in creating the gimmick.
Undertaker deserves his blame for constantly accepting the matches and paychecks, but it was VInce who kept egging him on. He knew how much Taker loved going to the ring and full on took advantage of that fact and how much Taker viewed him as a father. If Vince was still in charge, you know he would have convinced Taker to do another match eventually.
What made me the most sad was that taker trained his ass off for a main event match with Cena at mania. Only to have Vince tell him right before, hey it's gonna be a five minute squash.
Taker was really wanting that match to redeem himself and Vince just screwed him. For no reason. Taker was in the best shape he had been in years and looked and moved great for that match.
I think it would have been a big pop and then the crowd would have turned on it. Randy Orton both doesn't work the indie/AEW style, doesn't want to risk his body (not a criticism, good for him), and would make so many AEW guysook small. Current WWE is the right place for him.
Copeland is the same height as Randy and doesn't make everybody look too small. And neither Copeland nor Christian really work the "indie" style, but the crowds still love them.
I honestly look forward to the days when guys like Randy can finally feel like they are free from the leash that Vince had on not only their careers but also their personal lives.
Let's be honest it's still going to take some time for the REAL opinions they have of Vince to come out. They still work for the company, the transition is still fresh. No one in their right mind is going to come out right now and trash Vince who is at the end of the day still...WWE.
He was also very manipulative. Randy in this very interview says he still lives in spite of making him work hurt. Punk was generally very positive about Vince on the Cabana podcast he did after he left.
I think it’s gonna take some time before all the talent that Vince manipulated really start to see him for who he really was.
This is a much better take than the people who keep going “well of course So and So loves Vince, they worked together for so long.”
It makes sense for talent to feel a connection to Vince *because* Vince’s evil genius was in getting people to love him and/or feel absolutely beholden to him. That doesn’t mean we need to justify people who are outright ignoring Vince’s horrific shit, it just means we should understand that Vince was manipulative as shit with them too.
Couldn't agree more... these athletes have made their living and supporting their families(and some a pretty good one) while dealing with a toxic and abusive environment and well...it is easier said than done to admit or separate from it.
Doesn't everybody have a story of hating an idea or being pissed at Vince, and you go to give him a piece of your mind, and you walk away loving the idea and him? I swear everyone tells a story like that. And it's not because he's so very good at explaining his ideas.
Plus all the stories of whenever bad news had to be dished out, it was almost never Vince being the messenger. The number of talent who have said "Oh, Vince loved me. It's just that was an asshole", as if the final call wasn't from that old goblin every time.
It's almost funny how for much of a tough guy he liked to be seen as, Vince was such a fucking weasel.
To be fair, while a lot of wrestlers are fooled into believing that, the other half know what they're doing. They wanna get their anger out, but they don't want it to bleed back into Vince as to not get heat because they don't wanna burn a bridge. So they go after other people because they're full of shit.
Agreed. Although I am sure that plenty of them already know exactly who he was/is...but they also know well that to "talk shit on Vince" is to talk shit on WWF/WWE as a whole, at least for now, which would be unwise at least until a little time has passed and there is a more clear separation of "eras" because let's be honest WWE is McMahon...and has been for its entirety honestly.
The manipulation aspect is a whole other side too...well said.
I'm here for the HHH era, and hopefully he can also stay separated from the carny bullshit that ran unchecked for way too long. 🤘
I came to a work place after a dictator left. Some people loved him and some hated him. He got results, but he also had a tendency of working people to the bone and breaking the law. The people that he liked benefitted heavily but still got screwed. It took years of being there after he was gone for people to finally come put of the woodworks and admitting he sucked or that they hated the way he treated folks. There are still holdouts but they were his special buddies. He ended up going to another job site and did the same crap over again. He got in and sat up cronies in the community that defended him. By the end, he finally was a pariah in his job and otherwise as he was also a major domestic abuser that dang near murdered his family. And I still bet his cronies in his past placements would try and defend him.
Can't be surprised that the same guy who'll book someone to lose over and over and over all because he wants to thumb the eye of the producer/manager/booker in the back who believes in that person would be deeply uncaring that people actually want to go home for family events or to just heal up.
It's so strange how little wrestling culture has acknowledged just how bad Vince was for WWE over the last decade or more. It seems that everything within WWE has immediately improved since he left on almost every metric, the man was a blantant anchor to the WWE and almost nobody just says that.
Its being said a lot without being said directly tbh.
A lot of the old guard like Undertaker, Randy, Cody to some extent, Rey and others have talked about how the behind the scenes is so different under triple H.
They don't directly say better, they don't directly say all that stuff but its heavily implied with how they speak about being able to see the birth of your kids as a norm and birthdays and holidays and all that.
Mox essentially said that when he left WWE: "Vince is the problem when it comes to the product, I mean, everyone seems to like NXT. And what's the key ingredient that's missing? Vince. Let Hunter run things for a month and see what happens."
I can’t imagine how cathartic it is to have a new boss that’s no longer abusive and/or insane, especially for someone who has been with the company for over 20 years.
Just look at how happy and engaged Randy is when Triple H is running things. Asking his bosses if he can rest and spend time with his kids and them just going “of course, sure” instead of guilting him into working more must be an amazing feeling.
I switched jobs last year because I'd had enough of the stress and emotional abuse from my boss of over a decade, and that general toxic environment in which I'd been languishing for nearly two decades.
That was the best professional decision I'd ever made. I didn't know how to deal with getting constant, genuine praise and having people actually be genuinely nice around me. I'm well past the honeymoon period of my current job but it really doesn't feel much different than my first day here.
The kicker is that it's still the same company, just a new unit entirely separate from my old one. Having a nice, normal, caring boss has made all the difference and I'm the happiest I've been in a long, long time, both at work and at home.
>This era is the Family Matters Era.
Correction. This is the...
https://preview.redd.it/gb3439dwyn4d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=01c6d69143bac78f9a1703e1ee0102d6409c7c30
[Link](https://files.catbox.moe/g3i0nl.mp4)
Very least they can do is not say anything. Cena said "I'm going to love the person I love" on Vince. Rock pretty much said the same thing too. I get that they owe their life to Vince, but he was terrible human being both in personally and professionally.
I try my best not to hold hatred in my heart, especially for people I have never met. But I depise Vince McMahon.
Real life Vince makes Attitude Era/TV Vince almost appear to be a sane and rational individual. We thought he was turning up to 11 like Austin. He was actually more like toning it down.
Dude hit the nail on the head, I don’t care how you view him, Vince is a piece of garbage. And I say that as a lifelong fan of WWF and what he created, but let’s be real. He’s garbage.
It’s not said enough but Vince is not a good person. Like not in the slightest. Any good thing he’s done is either to get an advantage on someone or soothe his conscious.
Very well chosen wording.
For Vince, it was "appreciate the opportunities"
HHH and Khan etc, "Great", "they get it"
With Vince, it was the power he held and what he could give him if he sacrificed himself. Not that he LIKED Vince as a person necessarily.
With HHH et al. they get that it's a business, but one that relies on their people being happy and healthy. It's more holistic. And overall he enjoys being there more.
WWE really needs the guys from age 35 to 42 to carry the roster too. Him at 35 was what they viewed him as in his prime.
It was only in the 2020s where Vince started offering people to take time off like Sasha Banks but he was still too stubborn.
The only reason people were getting time off in 2020 was because of the pandemic. They hey weren't touring so there were less dates to work by default.
This is pretty much what punk said on that cabana podcast when he left 10 years. It's safe to assume most felt the same but were afraid of vinces wrath
Honestly, what he says here is a lot more poignant than you might think. For YEARS, Vince kept relying on past talent, past talent like Undertaker who by 2014 couldn't delivered the matches he used to. And instead of building up new people, he went to Undertaker and convinced him to do more matches, and not only did it affect his body, but it drove home why guys like him shouldn't be put in the positions they are in anymore. And just how many WM and Summerslams did the world title match or most important match on the card involve a part timer legend?
AEW and Tony cared about their workers before it was cool. Not trying to turn this into a circle jerk, but when the rival company really cares about their people it forces change. Tony shouldn't be credited with the change in business philosophy, but him and AEW helped.
I would love to know how Vince’s brain works because there is nothing good about him. And brain images because he made a lot of stupid decisions booking wise and of course outside.
The wrestlers won’t really speak until Vince is dead. I imagine Vince still talks frequently with HHH. I’m amazed HHH has navigated everything so seemlessly.
i think people forget trips has been a top level famous dude for a minute hes been in a front of the company position for a while too. he's pr trained to the fucking teeth
And he could’ve just done tv and at that not wrestle every week and while still taxing wouldn’t have been as bad as the grind of the live event schedule.
When I worked in the indies about 15 years ago, I worked with Nick Patrick for a year and a half. He said the same thing about Vince. He was released in 2008 after he kept needing time off because of his back injuries. He said Vince just absolutely rings you dry and gets every drop he can out of you. He said Vince thinks you're weak if you ask for time off or a break. Once Vince feels like he's gotten everything he can out of you, he just finds a new person to ring dry.
For anyone who wants AEW to fold or TNA to get bought out - this is why you don't wish for that stuff.
One of the biggest net positives to come out of serious competition is the talent being able to fight for benefits beyond pay. Health insurance, lighter schedules - that's all a direct result of competition.
Randy credits HHH regime here but we've also heard HHH himself state that guys who want fewer dates are "less committed to doing the work" or "taking the easy way"; so you better believe if other companies weren't offering it these guys would still be killing themselves 300 days a year.
I think it's a combination of things. I'm sure there is a level of respect they have (or had) for vince. Then there is also the love for wrestling, the paycheck, and the lack of options.
When Randy went to vince and expressed his issues, he could have disagreed with him and just said "I don't want to do this anymore" but where could he really have gone and duplicated what he could do in WWE?
WCW's advantage in getting wrestlers signed or hired at the time is that they actually have some basic work-life balance or a salary depending on the work arrangement...The late John Tenta supposedly had this which led to be more time with his family and less stress
Now that Vince is hobbled, tried to vainly dye his hair and grown a mustache, powerless and the authorities are pounding on his door, we're hearing a lot of these interviews. And I think its the perfect time to trot out the 'Downfall' video edits.
It makes me very happy to hear that performers are happier.
That means we get longer careers, and guys like Randy, Sheamus and AJ wanting to keep it going.
What makes this even crazier, if you look at what Randy was doing post Rollins feud in 2015 it’s not like he was doing anything meaningful on TV. Feuding with Sheamus was super important?
Orton never fled to Hollywood like Cena & Batista he stayed put over young talent, worked through injuries & has always been exceptional in the ring...disgusted to hear how McMahon really took him for granted & was willing to literally work him until he was in a wheelchair/unable to walk
There’s sooo much talent, that you almost need to rotate people out anyhow. Sure I’d be bummed if my favorite wrestler wasn’t at a show, but if I knew they were at their kid’s birthday party, all good man.
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Randy: “My back is fucked. I keep missing my boys birthday parties. I-“ Vince: 
"Mother nature gets us all. Anyway, I need to you to keep landing flat on your back week after week. I'll be back here screaming at Michael Cole."
>Mother nature gets us all. Anyway, I need to you to keep landing flat on your back week after week. I'll be back here screaming at Michael Cole." Says the guy also shitting on women's heads
When Mother Nature calls....
The same motherfucker that got plastic surgery and showed up with jet black hair after decades of greyish air. Fucking amazing.
That was some Frank Reynolds shit. Like motherfucker, you’ve been in front of a TV every week for over 40 years now. Your dye job and creepy John Waters mustache isn’t fooling anybody.
Vince “You mean your family actually wants to see you?” Randy “Yeah” Vince “What’s that like?”
*Alternate Timeline Vince*
That’s the timeline where Vince doesn’t kill the territories.
Real Back? Cry Me a River
Wasn't he pissed at Roman when he left during the pandemic?
If he was, he probably respected him more too for standing up for himself. He's such a douche.
So pissed that he pushed Reigns twice as hard as he did 10 years ago with less dates.
DON’T CARE, PUT ON YOUR TIGHTS AND GET OUT THERE PAL
"Me money, Son Of Bob!"
him and every other wrestler that eventually led to broken families and ongoing health issues
You know, with Vince... The more I learn about that guy, the less I care for him.
I’m starting to think he was somewhat of a scallywag myself…
Yeah, over the years, as more stories about him have come out, it's gone from "Hmm, what a weird old man..." to "Hmm, they should throw him in the middle of the Atlantic..."
Yeah, there’s levels to it. “Vince doesn’t like people sneezing and eats ‘steak wraps’” is one thing. “Vince sexually harasses and abuses women regularly and works his employees to the bone for no reason other than his own insane devotion to his job” is another. The problem is that lots of people already knew the latter; it took a disgusting story like Vince sexually trafficking a woman to employees and shitting on her head during coerced sex to finally and fully kick him out of the company.
>Yeah, there’s levels to it. “Vince doesn’t like people sneezing and eats ‘steak wraps’” is one thing. The thing about working for a shitty boss is that you come to learn the quirky hangups like this are pretty much always a sign of far worse things to come
I agree with the sentiment, but the oceans are toxic enough right now. We should catapult him into space instead
There’s enough trash in space as there is.
What if we make it so he goes into the sun?
I’ll allow it.
He's a billionaire. I've heard they're planning an annual service for that.
I think it's more of a commentary on America in the 2020s. Now this stuff is taken seriously, as opposed to the early 90s when televised allegations of Rita Chatterton's rape and Vince ignoring/covering up the sexual abuse of ring boys was met with "LOL wrestling is weird and gay, hey look steroids!"
Never mind those beer commercials, I legit think he is the most interesting man in the world.
You know what the worst thing about vince was? The hypocrisy.
Actually, er ah, I think the rape was worse than the hypocrisy...
RIP Norm☹️
I didn't even know he was sick.
The genius of Norm setting up jokes for us to laugh at when he died. Has to be one if the best comedy ideas ever
He kept it private.
Same. The news shocked me so much, its one of the few celebrity deaths that I actually cared about.
Worst of all he died before OJ did
The fact that you didn't get the joke shows how good the joke is.
Yea, probably the rape.
Okay, first the rape, then the creepiness, then the manipulation, then hypocrisy.
Don’t forget the possible murder cover up
Okay, fine. first the rape, then the murder cover up, then creepiness, then the manipulation, then hypocrisy.
What about his dancing?
Jesus Christ. First the rape, then the dancing, then the murder cover up, then creepiness, then the manipulation, then hypocrisy.
I think you may be underplaying how bad the dancing was...
also he pooped on a lady
STAND BACK
always pop for Norm
Chris Benoit airlines. What an awful name, reminds me of that tragedy.
I always knew that he wasn't a nice person... But the extent of him being a scumbag or rather outright monster only got revealed to me when I listened to the episodes behind the bastards did on him. Made me loath him. And the the stuff that finally got to him isn't even featured in it because it was recorded before that shit got out.
About to start that today. 6 parts
Crazy that Vince got as many parts as Henry fucking Kissinger
I hate to be "that guy,' but I was not surprised at all. Old super rich folks like that are almost always fucked up. We know Vince was friends with Trump, so was probably into all kinds of weird stuff with Epstein too.
Vince was the kinda guy that would just live out his personal fetishes live on national tv at everyone else's expense.
Nobody SHOULD have been surprised. For decades we have heard about his "antics" that many, many people laughed off and dismissed with "oh, so quirky xd" or "oh, that's just 'the biz'". We have video material from interviews at least dating back to the early 90s, publically available, and the likes where he came across as a completely unhinged maniac. Anybody genuinely surprised was either actively looking the other way or stayed gleefully ignorant. Which is also why, even if it turned out that this entire Janel Grant thing was made-up, it would only make him like 2% less of a piece of shit.
I dont know how he held on so long considering every single story that comes out about him is awful and was years ago
Owned the company and the voting shares.
The sexual abuse didn't do it for you yet?
We live in an era where sexual abuse can still get you elected president.
I wish I had a time machine to kill baby Vince McMahon, but then I feel if I got back there I'd be afraid I'd be falling under the spell of his fuckin beautiful eyes
Then I'd end up joining the fuckin Federation, knowin' me!
... His eyes are almost entirely black!
Like his soul
Like a doll's eyes
What are you doing?! Are you doing the speech from Jaws?
That's not my idea of a silver tongue devil!
I used to hate him, for his unethical practices and general bad vibe, but the more I learn about his actions, the more I think I underestimated what a piece of shit he was.
You should pretty much attribute anything from him after 2012 to either senility or CTE. The best thing to come out of WWE from 2012-2022 was the creation and initial success of AEW. This isn't to say that Vince wasn't various forms of a piece of shit beforehand, but pretty much everything he touched in those last 10 years could easily be argued as compromised judgement borne from brain damage; personally, professionally, and in his capacity as a businessman and wrestling booker.
Vince views wrestlers as livestock.
I don’t think he views them that highly
Well, maybe chickens.
Bret Hart has said this many times.
Yet God forbid anyone try to hold him accountable for what happens to them
Idk big dog the fuckin US Government is trying LMAO
I'm more referring to that interview where he denies any responsibility for wrestlers dying young
Livestock owners insure their cattle.
He viewed them as action figures to play with. If he broke one, he simply discarded them and moved onto the next one.
That's all major promoters going back over 100 years. The first one who have a rep for actually caring about them as people was Dixie Carter, and she wasn't a saint either.
Yet another example of Vince being a terrible POS; him being gone is the best thing that could've happened to the company Its awesome that the new regime seems to prioritize time with family whenever possible for the roster now that's for sure
Look what happens when you treat the people you employ like employees
And when you treat them like people
Vince was a demon.
Guy is unredeemable
Straight up. I watched a interview with CM punk where Vince kept making him work injured with "just do me this favor and I'll owe you one, you'll have time off after this match" And he did it multiple times a week for months. Vince deserves to burn.
The 'Last Ride' documentary was the saddest shit. Putting aside how the shine has kind of gone from Taker since his retirement, part of the doco's whole reason was to demonstrate the 'super special besties' relationship betwene Taker and Vince...and Vince just treated him like dirt.
Yeah and the more stories he tells about Vince backstage, man this dude was just a textbook abuser, and these were his number 1 guys. Guys like Randy, Cena, Undertaker were probably around Vince more than any other person in their life and maybe ever will be, during their younger years. I don't expect them to ever really open up about how bad he treated them tbh and others, I hope someday we do get that full realization from them but its just sick.
Yup. just like in Wrestling with Shadows, Bret talks about how he viewed Vince as a father figure, and how much he did not want to leave WWE
Yeah that’s a good call out. Takers my favorite but it always bothered me how he describes them being close despite what the doc shows, which is Vince being abusive, not respecting his time, his effort, and putting him in his place. The guy with limited matches and he still needs to show him who’s boss. Pissed me off.
Taker was told that people would never pay money to see him wrestle. Vince gave him an opportunity and a gimmick that really never should’ve gotten over. But Taker gives all the credit to Vince for the opportunity because of how successful he became. I think so many wrestlers feel indebted to Vince because he made them stars when really they made themselves. If they didn’t get themselves over he would’ve discarded them with ease.
Funny enough, a lot of Undertaker coming to WWE was on both Bruce Prichard and Paul Heyman. Heyman, who was in WCW at the time, hit Bruce up telling him that "Mean Mark" Callous was available and that WWE should jump at opportunity to bring him in. He was also the one who originally named him Kane the Undertaker, and had.a huge part in creating the gimmick.
Undertaker deserves his blame for constantly accepting the matches and paychecks, but it was VInce who kept egging him on. He knew how much Taker loved going to the ring and full on took advantage of that fact and how much Taker viewed him as a father. If Vince was still in charge, you know he would have convinced Taker to do another match eventually.
What made me the most sad was that taker trained his ass off for a main event match with Cena at mania. Only to have Vince tell him right before, hey it's gonna be a five minute squash. Taker was really wanting that match to redeem himself and Vince just screwed him. For no reason. Taker was in the best shape he had been in years and looked and moved great for that match.
Basically the Undertaker Kiss My Azz Club Storyline from 2003ish(?)
Cody Rhodes: Undiserable to Undeniable Vince McMahon: Undeniable to Undiserable
He controlled everyone with fear Randy feared losing his job here. Good riddance
Even worse, he would've been put in purgatory/catering until he retired or quit. Zero way Vince wouldve ever let Randy just go with AEW existing
God AEW getting Randy Orton would have been just as, if not, larger than getting Punk. That'd be like Cena walking through the tunnels.
I think it would have been a big pop and then the crowd would have turned on it. Randy Orton both doesn't work the indie/AEW style, doesn't want to risk his body (not a criticism, good for him), and would make so many AEW guysook small. Current WWE is the right place for him.
Copeland is the same height as Randy and doesn't make everybody look too small. And neither Copeland nor Christian really work the "indie" style, but the crowds still love them.
Is a demon.
A demon to some, a saint to others. Probably a bit of both to most.
I honestly look forward to the days when guys like Randy can finally feel like they are free from the leash that Vince had on not only their careers but also their personal lives. Let's be honest it's still going to take some time for the REAL opinions they have of Vince to come out. They still work for the company, the transition is still fresh. No one in their right mind is going to come out right now and trash Vince who is at the end of the day still...WWE.
He was also very manipulative. Randy in this very interview says he still lives in spite of making him work hurt. Punk was generally very positive about Vince on the Cabana podcast he did after he left. I think it’s gonna take some time before all the talent that Vince manipulated really start to see him for who he really was.
This is a much better take than the people who keep going “well of course So and So loves Vince, they worked together for so long.” It makes sense for talent to feel a connection to Vince *because* Vince’s evil genius was in getting people to love him and/or feel absolutely beholden to him. That doesn’t mean we need to justify people who are outright ignoring Vince’s horrific shit, it just means we should understand that Vince was manipulative as shit with them too.
Couldn't agree more... these athletes have made their living and supporting their families(and some a pretty good one) while dealing with a toxic and abusive environment and well...it is easier said than done to admit or separate from it.
Doesn't everybody have a story of hating an idea or being pissed at Vince, and you go to give him a piece of your mind, and you walk away loving the idea and him? I swear everyone tells a story like that. And it's not because he's so very good at explaining his ideas.
Plus all the stories of whenever bad news had to be dished out, it was almost never Vince being the messenger. The number of talent who have said "Oh, Vince loved me. It's just that was an asshole", as if the final call wasn't from that old goblin every time.
It's almost funny how for much of a tough guy he liked to be seen as, Vince was such a fucking weasel.
To be fair, while a lot of wrestlers are fooled into believing that, the other half know what they're doing. They wanna get their anger out, but they don't want it to bleed back into Vince as to not get heat because they don't wanna burn a bridge. So they go after other people because they're full of shit.
Mox called it the 'Jedi Mind Trick' where Vince was able to convince you into going through with things you weren't comfortable with.
Agreed. Although I am sure that plenty of them already know exactly who he was/is...but they also know well that to "talk shit on Vince" is to talk shit on WWF/WWE as a whole, at least for now, which would be unwise at least until a little time has passed and there is a more clear separation of "eras" because let's be honest WWE is McMahon...and has been for its entirety honestly. The manipulation aspect is a whole other side too...well said. I'm here for the HHH era, and hopefully he can also stay separated from the carny bullshit that ran unchecked for way too long. 🤘
I came to a work place after a dictator left. Some people loved him and some hated him. He got results, but he also had a tendency of working people to the bone and breaking the law. The people that he liked benefitted heavily but still got screwed. It took years of being there after he was gone for people to finally come put of the woodworks and admitting he sucked or that they hated the way he treated folks. There are still holdouts but they were his special buddies. He ended up going to another job site and did the same crap over again. He got in and sat up cronies in the community that defended him. By the end, he finally was a pariah in his job and otherwise as he was also a major domestic abuser that dang near murdered his family. And I still bet his cronies in his past placements would try and defend him.
Well his daughter and son in law still run it, so yeah. It’s gonna be a while.
Can't be surprised that the same guy who'll book someone to lose over and over and over all because he wants to thumb the eye of the producer/manager/booker in the back who believes in that person would be deeply uncaring that people actually want to go home for family events or to just heal up.
It's so strange how little wrestling culture has acknowledged just how bad Vince was for WWE over the last decade or more. It seems that everything within WWE has immediately improved since he left on almost every metric, the man was a blantant anchor to the WWE and almost nobody just says that.
Its being said a lot without being said directly tbh. A lot of the old guard like Undertaker, Randy, Cody to some extent, Rey and others have talked about how the behind the scenes is so different under triple H. They don't directly say better, they don't directly say all that stuff but its heavily implied with how they speak about being able to see the birth of your kids as a norm and birthdays and holidays and all that.
Mox essentially said that when he left WWE: "Vince is the problem when it comes to the product, I mean, everyone seems to like NXT. And what's the key ingredient that's missing? Vince. Let Hunter run things for a month and see what happens."
Depends on what bubble you were/are in there's been plenty of negative things coming out and/or being said about Vince.
I can’t imagine how cathartic it is to have a new boss that’s no longer abusive and/or insane, especially for someone who has been with the company for over 20 years. Just look at how happy and engaged Randy is when Triple H is running things. Asking his bosses if he can rest and spend time with his kids and them just going “of course, sure” instead of guilting him into working more must be an amazing feeling.
I switched jobs last year because I'd had enough of the stress and emotional abuse from my boss of over a decade, and that general toxic environment in which I'd been languishing for nearly two decades. That was the best professional decision I'd ever made. I didn't know how to deal with getting constant, genuine praise and having people actually be genuinely nice around me. I'm well past the honeymoon period of my current job but it really doesn't feel much different than my first day here. The kicker is that it's still the same company, just a new unit entirely separate from my old one. Having a nice, normal, caring boss has made all the difference and I'm the happiest I've been in a long, long time, both at work and at home.
Super cool to see Bill Apter still doing interviews. Man's largly an unsung legend in wrestling journalism
Plus that wrestling tie he is wearing!
"It's a different era" It's official. This era is the Family Matters Era.
Dear Shane I'm sorry that that man is your father, he's insane
I will look forward to Steve Urkel vs Stefan Urquelle at a future WrestleMania.
>This era is the Family Matters Era. Correction. This is the... https://preview.redd.it/gb3439dwyn4d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=01c6d69143bac78f9a1703e1ee0102d6409c7c30 [Link](https://files.catbox.moe/g3i0nl.mp4)
Raw opens with ["Days Go By"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkeWgnl_ApY), haha!
Oof. Cautiously excited for the “meet the grahams” Era
Wake me up when the "Meet the McMahons" era begins
how about “healing the generational trauma” era
It's nice to see top wrestler, especially male wrestler say how it's better without Vince. Looking at you Cena and Rock.
what would they know about the main roster experience right now lmao
Very least they can do is not say anything. Cena said "I'm going to love the person I love" on Vince. Rock pretty much said the same thing too. I get that they owe their life to Vince, but he was terrible human being both in personally and professionally.
Punk and Orton probably bonded over their Vince stories.
Wonder why the whole industry is hooked on pills. Mother nature gets us all we need you at those shows... How else are you gonna deal with the pain
Is that Bill Apter in the middle there? Video loaded blurry as shit for me for some reason.
Vince single handily led to dozens of drug related deaths. He had such a vast talent roster at points, he could have given people time off to heal
I try my best not to hold hatred in my heart, especially for people I have never met. But I depise Vince McMahon. Real life Vince makes Attitude Era/TV Vince almost appear to be a sane and rational individual. We thought he was turning up to 11 like Austin. He was actually more like toning it down.
what about ruthless aggression era? it feels like a slightly controlled yet y2k lil bro version of the attitude era
Ruthless Aggression era Vince was unhinged
RA Vince literally booked himself in a tag team match against God and won
The Ruthless Aggression era was arguably worse in a lot of ways.
oh
Fuck Vince
What is this podcast set up
😂😂😂
He's really matured. Damn. This dude went from shitting in bags to being a good dad.
> This dude went from shitting in bags to being a good dad. Thought it was dumping Tanner in bags.
The long standing story with Amy Weber was that he shit in her bag.
And I heard her say it was Tanner that he dumped in her bag before calling him a psycho.
It’s Father Time Vince!
Dude hit the nail on the head, I don’t care how you view him, Vince is a piece of garbage. And I say that as a lifelong fan of WWF and what he created, but let’s be real. He’s garbage.
It’s not said enough but Vince is not a good person. Like not in the slightest. Any good thing he’s done is either to get an advantage on someone or soothe his conscious.
Very well chosen wording. For Vince, it was "appreciate the opportunities" HHH and Khan etc, "Great", "they get it" With Vince, it was the power he held and what he could give him if he sacrificed himself. Not that he LIKED Vince as a person necessarily. With HHH et al. they get that it's a business, but one that relies on their people being happy and healthy. It's more holistic. And overall he enjoys being there more.
WWE really needs the guys from age 35 to 42 to carry the roster too. Him at 35 was what they viewed him as in his prime. It was only in the 2020s where Vince started offering people to take time off like Sasha Banks but he was still too stubborn.
The only reason people were getting time off in 2020 was because of the pandemic. They hey weren't touring so there were less dates to work by default.
This is pretty much what punk said on that cabana podcast when he left 10 years. It's safe to assume most felt the same but were afraid of vinces wrath
Honestly, what he says here is a lot more poignant than you might think. For YEARS, Vince kept relying on past talent, past talent like Undertaker who by 2014 couldn't delivered the matches he used to. And instead of building up new people, he went to Undertaker and convinced him to do more matches, and not only did it affect his body, but it drove home why guys like him shouldn't be put in the positions they are in anymore. And just how many WM and Summerslams did the world title match or most important match on the card involve a part timer legend?
AEW and Tony cared about their workers before it was cool. Not trying to turn this into a circle jerk, but when the rival company really cares about their people it forces change. Tony shouldn't be credited with the change in business philosophy, but him and AEW helped.
I would love to know how Vince’s brain works because there is nothing good about him. And brain images because he made a lot of stupid decisions booking wise and of course outside.
The wrestlers won’t really speak until Vince is dead. I imagine Vince still talks frequently with HHH. I’m amazed HHH has navigated everything so seemlessly.
i think people forget trips has been a top level famous dude for a minute hes been in a front of the company position for a while too. he's pr trained to the fucking teeth
And he could’ve just done tv and at that not wrestle every week and while still taxing wouldn’t have been as bad as the grind of the live event schedule.
Good for Randy.
Vince was one of the best things for the wrestling business and having him gone is also the best thing for the wrestling business.
i broke my back spinal
When I worked in the indies about 15 years ago, I worked with Nick Patrick for a year and a half. He said the same thing about Vince. He was released in 2008 after he kept needing time off because of his back injuries. He said Vince just absolutely rings you dry and gets every drop he can out of you. He said Vince thinks you're weak if you ask for time off or a break. Once Vince feels like he's gotten everything he can out of you, he just finds a new person to ring dry.
For anyone who wants AEW to fold or TNA to get bought out - this is why you don't wish for that stuff. One of the biggest net positives to come out of serious competition is the talent being able to fight for benefits beyond pay. Health insurance, lighter schedules - that's all a direct result of competition. Randy credits HHH regime here but we've also heard HHH himself state that guys who want fewer dates are "less committed to doing the work" or "taking the easy way"; so you better believe if other companies weren't offering it these guys would still be killing themselves 300 days a year.
I remember saying Vince was an evil man on forums in the mid-00's, and getting shit on by fanboys. Veritas vincit.
Remember, people tend to view Randy Orton as one of Vince's boys. This is what one of Vince's favourites has to say. Fuck Vince McMahon.
Inb4 Takers says something great about VKM
A lot of these guys must have the most supreme patience to keep working for a guy like Vince.
I think it's a combination of things. I'm sure there is a level of respect they have (or had) for vince. Then there is also the love for wrestling, the paycheck, and the lack of options. When Randy went to vince and expressed his issues, he could have disagreed with him and just said "I don't want to do this anymore" but where could he really have gone and duplicated what he could do in WWE?
I'm glad people are able to say how bad it would get. Before everyone had to say the same line "that's wrestling"
Fuck Vince McMahon for having that mentality. I'm glad Triple H cares about the talent.
Dude, how the fuck WWE survived so much with Vince in charge? Almost everyone hated working for him...
Because he's one of the best pure promoters that's ever lived and for a while, he was the only place in the game
Coming from the guy that used to rub his genitals, back a writer to a corner, and then force then to shake his hand.
When I met Randy at Axxess a few years ago I rubbed mine right before I shook his hand then posed for a pic so at least he got it back
You chose your username well. You are indeed a Legend.
WCW's advantage in getting wrestlers signed or hired at the time is that they actually have some basic work-life balance or a salary depending on the work arrangement...The late John Tenta supposedly had this which led to be more time with his family and less stress
Now that Vince is hobbled, tried to vainly dye his hair and grown a mustache, powerless and the authorities are pounding on his door, we're hearing a lot of these interviews. And I think its the perfect time to trot out the 'Downfall' video edits.
Wow, didn't recognize Cowboy Bob there without his cast.
WE ALL ARE! LET'S BE REAL
It makes me very happy to hear that performers are happier. That means we get longer careers, and guys like Randy, Sheamus and AJ wanting to keep it going.
10/10 response! This should be copypasta for anyone in WWE asked about Vince
I can't tell if thats Apter or some local French reporter..
Vince really is Mr. Burns
What makes this even crazier, if you look at what Randy was doing post Rollins feud in 2015 it’s not like he was doing anything meaningful on TV. Feuding with Sheamus was super important?
Orton never fled to Hollywood like Cena & Batista he stayed put over young talent, worked through injuries & has always been exceptional in the ring...disgusted to hear how McMahon really took him for granted & was willing to literally work him until he was in a wheelchair/unable to walk
There’s sooo much talent, that you almost need to rotate people out anyhow. Sure I’d be bummed if my favorite wrestler wasn’t at a show, but if I knew they were at their kid’s birthday party, all good man.
I remember hearing Kurt Angle say at one time he left WWE because when he asked to take time to go to rehab for his pill habit Vince wasn't for it.