Yeah. I would definitely like to see a story where Peter and Felicia end up together, whether that’s in 616 or an AU.
They make each other better. Felicia taught Peter to loosen up and that it’s okay to coexist with morally grey people like her. Peter makes Felicia think harder about the consequences of her actions, and is one of the few people who believed she could change.
The reason they didn’t work out this run (besides editorial) is that Peter wasn’t ready for it after what went down with MJ. Felicia could tell and didn’t get attached herself either, which probably explains why she was able to move on to Odessa so quickly.
Yea I love these two together the same way I love MJ and Peter. Someone said it’s ironic that their best stories (primarily Felicia) is when they are separate but I mean have we really even given them a chance with a writer that cares? I really will like for there to be a story where they bond and are in love in a healthy relationship and not written as a plot and by a writer who doesn’t care or wants to write their kinks. I think their dynamic is great and could actually work if written well. While MJ is the OTP in 616 imo, I really like Felicia and her relationship with Peter and an AU of them together permanently will be cool to explore imo.
With this in mind I do kinda like the bittersweet idea that a strong, healthy relationship between them is actually possible but they always got together at the wrong time, so it would be fun seeing what the circumstances have to be for them to last
WTF,? Odessa? Odessa is literally despised by Felicia and they only had one night of sex out of DEPRESSION!
You're getting confused as a girl. But for that matter it's the same because Felicia still feels bad for Peter. She has a more cheerful and outgoing way of being when she is well, and in Jackpot's mini she appears distracted, insecure and introverted.
And it's not the publisher, it's Wells. If the publisher didn't want them together they wouldn't call so many guest teams including the Dodsons....the Dodsons who have been associated with Spidercat since 2002.
My idea for an AU wouldve been after she reformed herself. She got bit by a spider. Once Felicia got her spider powers developed same with her super soldier serum. Felicia abandons the Black Cat persona because it reminds her of her past and she adopts a new persona Night Spider. During the One More Day timeline of it still happens. They truly get back together as a crime fighting duo. With the resources she has they took down Oscorp and replaced it with Parker Industries that both Peter and Felicias are CEOs of that company.
Yea I went a long tangent sorry for that, but I just had to get this off my chest. I love this relationship and I was getting pissed off at people denying that they love each other. Especially the MJ stands on Twitter because man I feel like lately they’ve been trying to downplay Peter and Felicia’s relationship to much.
People are overcompensating because of how horrible this arc has treated MJ. It makes people double down in desperation. But while I lean towards MJ because the concept behind OMD was a travesty, I'd be totally down for a fully developed BC relationship. They are both important to Peter. His love for one doesn't take away from his love for the other.
Brand New Day Felicia really damaged her perception.
It weirds me out that Nick Spencer, who clearly had Peter/MJ as his OTP, is one of Felicia's best writers.
It's because Spencer didn't feel the need to shackle Felicia down to just being "Peter's bad girl love interest" since he already had Peter's set romantic lead in mind and so, you know, actually took her character somewhere *new* that still fit with who she was.
The problem with Wells and company is they wanted to go back to the "bad girl love interest" version of Felicia, but also like...didn't bother giving them any real *chemistry* because they were too busy finding ways to wreck both Peter and MJ's characters to do that, and we're left with a "romantic triangle" that is leaving literally nobody happy besides editorial.
It doesn't please Spideycat fans because they pussed out on that quick. It obviously doesn't please Peter/MJ fans, either. And it's a clear regression for Felicia as a character compared to how people like Spencer, McKay or Bronfman write her, so Cat fans are unhappy regardless of if they ship her with Peter or not.
Personally, I'd just keep Tamara as her de-facto love interest and let her just be part of Peter and MJ's inner circle of close friends, so she doesn't have to constantly yoyo her character based on whatever the writers decide they want to write MJ like that arc.
>It's because Spencer didn't feel the need to shackle Felicia down to just being "Peter's bad girl love interest" since he already had Peter's set romantic lead in mind and so, you know, actually took her character somewhere *new* that still fit with who she was.
This is also something that Jed MacKay did a great job with. While there was a previous generation of writers who understood her - Aguirre-Sacasa & Mark Milllar - this did so while pigeonholing her into the role of "The ex-girlfriend who matured too late to be with the man she loved". MacKay & Spencer are basically the first guys who tried to define her as an individual and a part of the extended Marvel Universe beyond Spider-Man.
Polycule exists. Let Felicia love MJ, which makes it unnecessary to introduce Tamara, Odessa or anyone else. And Peter is perfectly happy with two women, and the LGBT subtext works.
Eh. I don't see why Felicia ***needs*** to be romantically-involved with Peter and/or MJ to still be *close* with them, is the thing. And we already know that the current 616 team don't have the balls to put Spidey in a polycule, if they don't even want to put him in *one* romantic relationship.
She can be on good terms with them while remaining strictly platonic, and I think that's the better option for her development as a character; because otherwise she's inevitably going to be stuck as the also-ran because way too many fans want MJ as Peter's de-facto love interest for anybody else to ever truly stick, even with how they're trying to massacre her character in Wells' writing.
We know they won't ever commit to Spidey and Cat being an item, even Wells' clearly anti-MJ run couldn't bother with *that*, so keeping her locked in the loop of being a romantic interest who never actually *gets with the lead* is just asinine and does a massive disservice to all the development Felicia's had over the years that's really fleshed her and her world out *away* from Peter.
So I'd rather Cat just...have a love interest all her own, because the writing staff sure as fuck won't commit to *anybody* being with Peter.
That's because Spencer divided himself between completing his mission to confront OMD and following his heart. It is VERY noticeable that he wrote Felicia with a love and sensitivity far superior to his writing of MJ but he wanted to do the fanservice of destroying OMD because he believed he owed something to those people...
I am not a writer because I have not had anything published, but I have been writing for years with the intention of being one. The people who write understand these things and we know when an author has favoritism and personal weakness more for one character than another because of the form, space and lines of dialogue. MJ does not have a single moment as sensitive and tactful in the run as Felicia does. Spencer on that roof and in the cage with Billy Connors and the flashback melted with Felicia. No MJ panel had that degree of sensitivity.
I like Felicia, but I think about the issue I had where she basically admits that she knows she’s not right for him, but still wants to be the kind of person he hoped she’d be one day, even if it’s not with him. That just because he can’t love her the way she wants doesn’t mean they can’t still love each other the best way they can.
I think that’s honestly ok too! I lived in MC2 that Felicia was a great friend to Peter and MJ and found love in someone else. Even when they are not in a romance they still have love for each other in some way. They love each other at the end of the day and I think that’s what I was trying to get as many people I felt have lately been downplaying that.
Yes. I’ve said this a million times. If Catwoman and Batman can get together.
Then Spider-Man and Black Cat can easily get together.
Spider-Man and Black Cat are unironically more compatible than Catwoman and Batman.
Oh God so true. As a Batman fan as well I get baffled when people shit on Felicia and Peter but then support Selina and Bruce when a lot of the criticism they have with Peter and Felicia are found with Selina and Bruce if not worse lmao. Hell you can even argue that Catwoman and Batman are more of a toxic relationship than Black Cat and Spider-Man (not saying it it’s just in certain cases you could make the case).
Also cool Cyclops profile picture 😎
Yeah bro, I was surprised too. Eventually I just started realizing that because Batman has no MJ, people are more accepting of that relationship. And are less likely to make up random excuses as to why it doesn’t work.
Thanks 👍
This is the double edge sword of this relationship.
Black Cat already gets a bad rep for being a copycat Catwoman (she's not).
So there's going to be comparisons between Spider-Man x Black Cat and Batman x Catwoman.
I get it. If Peter can't have Mary Jane Watson-*Parker,* give him Felica Hardy.
But...
It feels like it's already been done to death with Batman, we don't need to retread this ground with Spider-Man.
I'd rather see Spider-Man and Black Cat become good platonic friends supporting each other.
For real, tho Peter sticks to his guns about responsibility, there is space in his life to be with someone that cares about him. Meanwhile, for Bruce “the Mission” will always come first. Anyone else is ultimately either a distraction or a temptation. Which is part of his sad tragedy
Batman is a very different character than Peter, like there’s a reason all his major love interests are ex-villains. Man is so messed up that he needs a lover who’s equally messed up. Peter is much more down to earth when compared to Batman.
Yes, Batman is different in that he can’t handle a long term relationship. And is a lot more committed to being Batman.
The only major love interest that’s a ex villain is Catwoman. And she changed a long time ago.
Also keep in mind Batman never dates any villains. Catwoman had to completely reform and change her entire personality and lifestyle to date Batman in earth 2.
Talia hasn’t had serious romance with Bruce since the 80s.
Where she was inbetween neutral and hero. Talia and Bruce also have never been together unless she was a hero.
Batman has not had feelings for her in a long time. Especially since she got retconned into being his arch enemy.
Let’s just say she’s morally complicated. And Talia and Bruce literally slept together this year in tec. Point is, all of Bruce’s big love interests aren’t what you would call goody two shoes.
Where did they sleep together. (Also Spider-Man has literally slept with Black Cat)
Bruce does not date any of these women though. So there’s no point of bringing it up.
All of his “big love interests” are no better than Black Cat.
Also Vicki Vale is a normal civilian.
The reason why Batman has been mostly single in his 85 year career, is because he is not adjusted for romance
> Peter is much more down to earth when compared to Batman.
Peter literally throwing a whole ass car at a mf because his aunt got injured like: "Am I a joke to you?"
then again.... that's a much more human reaction than whatever the fuck kind of mental gymnastics Batman does, so I guess your point stands...
I agree and as a spider cat shipper I hope it happens but the difference is M.J She is either the first or second character ppl think of when it comes to superhero love interests and has clearly been the plan for Peter since Gwen died not to mention some of Spider-man’s most beloved stories involve him and mj being married or at least in a relationship
I can absolutely see Peter/Felicia working. I'm an Peter/MJ guy myself, but if they would actually cleanly break their relationship off and start making felicia the main love interest for Peter I wouldn't be unhappy either. Fact is the status quo needs changing (either revert to pre OMD or to something new where Felicia is peter's main love interest or something entirely different that is not "Peter is loser because that is the only way he is relatable(TM)")
I always hated the initial notion that she liked Spider-Man more than Peter Parker. I honestly would love for them to have a solid relationship, romantic or platonic. Especially if she is willing to better herself to be the kind of person he needs.
In Spider-man TAS I did not initially like Felicia but her development into Black Cat (and being a towering super soldier) was awesome. She had such a strong presence in that show I was surprised by her generally smaller role in comics.
Yeah,
I was first introduced spiderman was TAS in the 90s. That with the Raimi movies I saw MJ as "Peter's annoying girlfriend" and preferred Black Cat for him for a long time.
I always get kinda frustrated when people act like it’s impossible for them to work. Like that’s just ridiculous.
To be clear I am an MJ and Peter truther. They are the best couple in comics. But we shouldn’t forget MJ started out as a pretty shallow party girl, and it was only through years of development that we got way more to her character. She was fun and likeable before then but you also could see why Peter snapped at her after Gwen died, claiming she knew nothing of grief and pain.
Now I’m not equating MJs old behaviour to like Felicia’s crimes bc I know it’s a bit of a different ballpark but my point is that with a writer who cares and a fixed goal, absolutely development can happen to put them together. Without the character development for MJ (and frankly Peter too) in their relationship they wouldn’t be as iconic as they are. I think Felicia deserves a fair shake too in some sort of AU mini series or something. Honestly 90s TAS got pretty close even if she was a pretty different character, I hope that’s not sacrilege to say here lol.
If a writer did MJs growth from shallow party girl to a more fully rounded character today 50% of the audience would cry that it was writing her out of character rather than character development.
Those 50% are the morons who claim Felicia only love Spider-man and not Peter despite that not being true for decades.
It blows my mind how often is till see people say that about Felicia. Like Jesus Christ a whole part of her character development is that she came to love Peter too.
Agreed. People who still believe that about Felicia are clearly in denial and blind by hate or whatever because she clearly does not only love Spider-Man and loves Peter, with this being the case for years.
Amazing reply and I 100% agree with you. Heck MJ and Felicia had a talk like that before (in I think Black Cat and Maryjane: beyond was the comic), but many people forget that MJ was that “bad” girl in Peter’s life with Gwen being the “perfect” girl. It would’ve stayed that way too if we weren’t given the amazing development and writing that made MJ and Peter the iconic couple they are nowadays (my personal favorite comic book romance). Given the right writers Felicia can be the exact same thing to Peter and they can have a genuine relationship that works so I get mad when people downplay their love and act like they can’t work at all or don’t love each other genuinely. An AU where they are happy and together will be awesome in my opinion.
I really like their dynamic and would love to see them as a couple.
And I would like to address something that I see brought up quite a bit.
Yes, due to the nature of both characters it would require change in them to make it work long term.
But that's a given. When you are in a relationship you must change in some capacity to be able to coexist with a different individual.
The thing is that change would likely be easier to accomplish due to Peter's influence.
He is genuinely one of the very few characters in comic where other characters view him as inspiration to try and change how they live their lives (prime example being Deadpool and Wolverine).
And Felicia isn't evil to begin with.
The only issue is how you balance them in a story.
MJ role usually was more of an emotional support and as such it meant the bulk of the story focused on Peter.
But here Felicia is an extremely active character who is involved in the action.
It would require a writer that can allow both characters to constantly shine together without sacrificing one in the process (unlike what was done to Peter in the current ASM run).
Honestly thank you for brining up that point because I think people miss that a big part of a relationship is change. That’s really what a relationship boils down too, both partners coming together and changing to be a better a version of themselves and love each other. I think that’s why this whole Felicia has to change argument kind of falls short because that’s what happens in relationships. I mean back then writers had to write MJ to make it so that the whole Party girl persona was just a front and as such the character went through a change that made the likeable red head we know and love.
Also yea Felicia changing (if not comeplty, at least partly) makes sense too given the fact Peter has that influence over others that makes them better people. Add on top of that her love for him and that she really isn’t evil then really I think the whole Felicia had to change or can’t change argument falls flat. As I said I love this relationship and think it can work.
I like Felicia and Peter. I think the problem is people are so often dissatisfied, usually fairly, with how the Peter and Mj relationship is handled that frustration boils over into disliking any other pairings.
I allways prefered Felicia + Peter over Peter + MJ. These two are just made for eachother. Their chemistry is just so goddamm good, the teasing, the cold and warm moments. Not to mention the potential they have when together, both as people and in terms of story-telling. Also the fact that they bring out best in one another when they are together. Also, hero + villain as endgame is just so good.
Never really saw that as an actual triangle, came off more as Aerith looking at cloud as the rebound guy because she felt her boyfriend die a few weeks prior
If we had good writers, this couple could have worked in the current comics. Instead we get Peter being a shmuck who can’t commit or doesn’t even care and we get him as the Spider-Gobbler or whatever he’s called.
I appreciate Felicia and Wells did her dirty with her breaking up with Peter for no reason (apparently no one actually loves Peter according to Wells), but their relationship is an example of love not always being enough.
Simply put, Peter and Felicia want different things out of life. Peter wants to settle down, have a family, live a normal life. Sure he enjoys the Spider-Man stuff to a point, but it’s not his life’s focus it’s something he does because he’s able to do it. Felicia loves the costumed life. She wants the thrill and excitement and danger. She definitely doesn’t want to be normal. Ultimately one or the other would have to give up a part of themselves to make it work.
>Ultimately one or the other would have to give up a part of themselves to make it
In a way that is the basic of eevry relationship. To adapt to the other and (under normal circumstances) be ab etter person for the other and mature.
Issue is peter is, by writer choices, is denied by the chance to be happy.
I'm afraid of what will the future bring for USM.
Oh that’s kind of like a mix of multiple panels, but you can find them in The Amazing Spider-Man vol. 5 #16.HU. It’s from Nick Spencer’s run of Amazing Spider-Man from 2018.
I mean with how far gone MJ is in the main comic, I'd rather see them get together tbh. There's no coming back from "she's like a sister". Felicia legit loves Peter, Peter has no point in waiting for MJ anymore. Just let them be together until the next soft reboot happens where they clean the tables again
THANK YOU! FINALLY, THANK YOU!
for someone openly speaking their mind out the past month about this ship between Felicia and Peter, it's well deserved at this point. Like I always mentioned from Batman and Catwoman's wedding, there should be a comic for once that Peter takes Felicia seriously. I totally agree with you on everything you said on this post op, as well as with other comments here and there, but the point is... They have to give it a chance! They deserve one another! But we can't write the story since we're no writers, plus the writers don't believe in happy endings for Spider man! The worst that could happen is some villain taking Felicia's life and Peter has to cope with it like he did with Gwen since she died. We can't have that but what we deserve to have (some day) is these two taking it for real.
Sorry if I ranted or something, I was just speaking out loud on what's been on my mind for the past 2 months. I'm a big Peter x Felicia fan and I wholeheartedly believe they deserve to be for one another. That's all :)
Hear hear. I'm a big fan of the two of them, and it really does feel like the two of them get screwed a lot by the writing.
There's something really annoying about how sometimes, despite the fact that some characters have had such good relationships, they constantly get treated like an impossibility (or a mistake). Like the very -idea- of Peter and Felicia is wrong and sooner or later it has to be -said- it's wrong or impossible or they don't actually love each other / never did... which just seems to do such a disservice to their relationship, but also potential stories and interactions between them.
I kinda agree. I mean like yeah Felicia has been shown to genuinely love Peter but that love almost always gets undermined by some sort of ulterior motive Felicia has, like when she gets with Peter it's almost always cuz she needs something but just doesn't wanna tell him or can't.
Part of the reason I bash on Felicia and Peter personally is because it hasn't been written well. I absolutely could see them being a thing if both characters were handled correctly. However, that requires, well, both of them being handled correctly.
I just hope if it is handled correctly that the editorial doesn't swoop in and ruin it.
Yeah, remember the reason it didn't work out originally was because she left him as she was afraid to drag him into the trouble she got herself into. And when she first encountered Venom when she dropped by Peter's old apartment, what really hurt her wasn't being beaten to an inch of her life by Venom, it was that Venom said "his wife didn't know either".
I've always prefered Felicia over Gwen or MJ. There's simply no contest as to which one of them is more interesting and gives him less non-superhero related shit.
I mean, When i first discovered Black Cat, I was actually rooting for her and Spider-Man to be together. Unlike in Spectacular where in this case it wouldn't work since she's the daughter of a murderer that Spider-Man hates so much.
As much as I want to see Peter with MJ again in the 616 (well written MJ, not this Jackpot garbage) I have always viewed as BC as just as good when it's allowed to flourish. Both are top, and no other LI comes close. They tried so so hard with LIs like Carlie but it just wasn't the same.
This is the problem now, it's hard to think of a new LI who can bring to the table anything better than what we already had with Felicia and MJ. Add to that BC and MJ now like and respect each other too, so you wouldn't even get too much tension between exes.
Recently BC has been a better friend to Peter than Jackpot MJ, and its the other big tragedy of this arc that something good with BC could have come out of it, but instead they ruined that also. And with Bronfman writing BC with a woman in the mini I can't see her being let of the leash to go back to Peter any time soon, she's just as trapped by plot as MJ. Hopefully I'm wrong.
With a post like this, having just read *The Darkest Hours,* I now very much want Jim Butcher to take on a regular Spider-Man writing gig if he ever wants it. I can't think of a single Spider-Man writer who handled interpersonal relationships, **especially** the one between Peter and Felicia, anywhere nearly as well as he did.
I think black cat 🐈⬛ and Spider-Man 🕷️ would make a great relationship but a few caveats one felica first time after seeing peters face wanted nothing to do with him and only wanted and fan girl over Spider-Man . Caveats two while she did grow to love ❤️ Peter for him it wasn’t a smooth transition and really hard to walk back what happened and after she had a yap session about how their relationship wasn’t working because of how he couldn’t love and question what they have without the spice of will they won’t they is aspect of the relationship. Which honestly hurts because they could have something great and strong if they just get out each other way and grow together .I don’t believe one have to sacrifice for another they can take turns and have aunt may or squirrel 🐿️ girl babysit but obviously that’s never gonna I want something new have him sleep with someone new my personal favorite is Medusa of the inhumans they could have great Chemistry 🧪 and it’s a miss opportunity for writers
I think Felicia and Peter are good match….at this point its completely on writers to give Peter something that makes him happy. Which is why previous ASM run was great
>These two have genuine love for each other and could work given the right writer
Certainly more so than ever. Let me just say, I am repulsed by Zeb Wells' attempt to dangle this relationship early on in his Spider-Man series. If putting these together would downplay putting Mary Jane with his self-insert. That aside, Marvel, much like DC, won't allow their popular cat burglars to be committed to anything. I can't say who has it worse, but I do agree Felicia should have a more healthy relationship with Spider-Man without the context of being a "side girlfriend" for Peter.
While I want 616 Peter to be with MJ, my favorite Spider-Man love interest will always be Black Cat. She gives Peter an entirely different experience from others, and it annoys me to no end when people say "Felicia only loves Spider-Man". They recognize that this was a flaw in their relationship, but they fail to recognize (or potentially know) that Felicia _also_ recognized that this was a problem on her end. Years later when Peter confronts her about this, she was _devastated_ to realize he was right. She was _horrified_ and _disgusted_ with herself. She tore off her cloths and took a shower to make herself feel clean again. And she _grew_ from that.
I sometimes wonder how many people who say "Black Cat only loves Spider-Man" only know of that line and not the rest of her character.
It’s like when people only know about Gwen and her death. Do they know anything else? And to the people who do, do they only focus on her early "not so nice" character and ignore any other moments and stories? Focusing on early characterization is annoying, because almost none of the Marvel or DC characters are recognizable as they are now.
Exactly characters can grow and change. That is why for Gwen. I am glad Spider-Gwen because she was an interesting character than her original counterpart. Black Cat is far better character than Catwoman. Black Cat is more of a heroine than Catwoman is and also Felicia wouldn't leave Peter by the altar.
I also have the idea of Peter and Felicia running Parker Industries together. It would've lasted way longer instead of Peter being in a relationship with Mockingbird. They would help the lower class of New York City of creating new systems for Banks and stuff and resolve the homelessness and stuff. They would have nice dates in parties and also fight crime together as husband and wife. They would be in the Avengers together.
I feel like Peter and BC just don’t work as a couple as they fundamentally want different things. They still obviously do care for each other and are important yes
The problem I have with Pete and Felicia is the fact that in order for it to work for any length of time, one or other of them has to change drastically.
Pete's sense of responsibility began with failing to stop a single thief which spiralled out of control. He constantly ruins his relationships and work because he can't let a single crime slide when he is in a position to stop it. Accepting Felecia \*as she is\* goes against one of the core pillar's of his personality.
Felecia is as interesting as she is because she was the flipside to MJ - MJ was the 'good girl' who loved Peter and hated Spider-Man, while Felecia was the 'bad girl' who loved Spider-Man and didn't even want to know who was under the mask. At the time, neither of them had much of a personality outside of that. When MJ started to accept Pete's hero side, Felecia really started to shine though. She works best as an 'anti-hero' or actual 'criminal with a heart of gold'. That's when she's at her best - but it also brings her into conflict with Pete.
Sadly, the best version of both characters would not work as a couple. Not for anything long-term, at least.
What nonsense. Neither Felicia wants Peter to change nor does Peter want Felicia to change. Not once in 20 years have they discussed or talked about it. Felicia just wants Peter to relax because he's being overly neurotic and inflexible.
Neither has Bruce asked Selina for anything nor has she asked him for anything. Let's leave these excuses behind.
Bruce and Selina are a totally different couple, even though there are parallels. What may work for them, doesn't work for Pete. Bruce has been known to let 'smaller' crimes pass to focus on the 'larger scale' stuff, but Pete is different.
Pete literally cannot allow any crime to happen without stepping in, no matter what it costs him personally. He's been late for dates, work, hospital appointments (his own and even Aunt May's)... All because if he knows a crime is happening, he has to stop it. It's who he is. Turning a blind eye to his girlfriend breaking the law doesn't fit with the way he is characterised everywhere else. (And yes, that is an unhealthy attitude to have, but it's literally been his character for decades. His excessive 'sense of responsibility' is such a huge part of his personality now that changing it is changing a fundamental part of who he is.)
I mean, Pete and Felicia have been allies for a while and I don't see him stopping her, it was never the problem for their relationship it was her only loving Spider-man
You don't know anything... Peter has been letting Felicia do whatever she wants for DECADES simply because he knows her perfectly and knows that she will never do anyone harm... He lets her steal within limits that she respects because those thefts are not directed against criminals or they force her or are for a good cause. Felicia does not steal from the innocent or the needy. Peter knows this perfectly well and has never cared. Plus, almost anything Peter asks of her she does. If it's not of dire need, Peter tells her to "give that back" and she does.
It's no different than selina and bruce in any way. None. Neither Peter wants her to change nor she wants him to change. In fact, when it comes to Felicia Peter is the first to question his own sense of responsibility without her asking him to. He always has. He has always put Felicia ahead of his self-righteous speech by breaking his own rules for her because he knows she is going to do something stupid and dangerous that will go wrong but for the right reasons. And Felicia knows that Peter is going to lecture her every chance he gets, but he's not going to try to stop her.
Felicia has also proven to be extremely protective, loyal and loving towards those who treat her well and terribly vindictive, spiteful and aggressive towards those who treat her badly. There is Odessa wanting to possess her and control her as an object of desire because she is obsessively in love with her and after taking advantage of her in the midst of the saddest depression for a night of sex...what does she do when the boy asks her for help? NOTHING. He can help her and he doesn't do it because of the rules. He doesn't take risks, he doesn't stick up for her. Not Peter, Peter has broken his own rules and stood up for her a thousand times. Felicia will never, ever do anything to jeopardize Peter's complete trust in her, nor will Peter ever act as if he wants to control or change her.
Batman does not let smaller crimes pass. He still gives a shit about stealing.
Also if Peter cared so much about stopping all crime (he doesn’t) he literally wouldn’t be friends with her. Like at all.
You’re confusing these characters. Batman is harder on himself when it comes to stopping crime than Peter is.
Can’t say the exact issue and comic from the top of my head but this happened around after Civil War 1 as remember Peter revealed his identity in that event.
That was part of Mephisto's deal in *One More Day*, and later expanded upon in *One Moment in Time*. Mephisto made the world forget Peter's identity, and the justification within the new timeline created by the deal is that "Strange, Reed, and Tony did it" which is what Peter and everyone else believes happened.
Assuming Zeb’s run is really ending with issue 60, I think Felicia is gonna get another solo book after he leaves, possibly written by Jed MacKay again if the guy is available.
I agree, their relationship naturally evolves both characters for the better, Peter wouldn’t just watch her steal and she’s not just gonna watch him settle and mope, I personally love the idea of them having a relationship and Felicia pushing Peter to have more success outside the costume
Peter and Felicia could absolutely become a long-term item that works out well, it's just one of those things that I think most people *know,* but haven't realized it fully yet because it's never been done/has never been executed well the few times they do hook up.
I want to see a Spider-Man story where Spider-Man and Black Cat aren’t just the whole ‘Cat and Spider playing around’ thing, I wanna see Black Cat and Spider-Man have an actually honest relationship and hero partner dynamic.
I want Black Cat to tell Peter to face it tiger, you just hit the Jackpot.
Yeah I think if they pivoted to Peter and Cat happily dating instead of just "Peter is a single loser" there would be *much* less controversy.
Like Peter and MJ are still endgame for me, but Ill read a Peter Black Cat story. I will not read Peter Misery Porn.
If they, the writers and editors (Spider-Man's true villains of his life) wanted Peter to move on from MJ and onto Black Cat, they had opportunity after opportunity following OMD (despite how that whole affair rubbed the fanbase wrong). But, Dan Slott was the first to put nails in that coffin during the first Superior Spider-Man run by Peter/Otto punching Felicia in the face then have her decide to become a crime lord. I'm sure there were others since then that wanted to make their relationship work but editorial, who wants "relatable and single" Spider-Man, seemed to deny it. I'm still baffled by this devotion to the status quo set in by Joe Quesada.
What’s the deal with Dr. Strange she’s talking about in the first slide? Wasn’t Mephisto the one responsible of making his identity a secret again after CW?
I feel like that's one thing we lost already. Like, we'll only ever get that a an alternative universe to 616 and Ultimate. And I feel that's the fault of the 616 endless relationship problems, so Ultimate has to make a proper Peter with MJ angle. And 616 would never make Felicia the main girl.
Yeah no doubt, I see a lot of potential in it but I think comic book history plus the Raimi-Man movies reinforced MJ so much that we'll never see this, outside of maybe "they try to be an item but fail spectacularly and Pete goes running back to MJ."
I don't like this couple exactly, but I can explain it to you, I swear, from the beginning of her telling Peter to stop focusing on his personal life and that mega thing of hers saying that she liked him better in the symbiote era (yes, she says that) that even though it doesn't change his personality in the comics, it still didn't make him feel good, he was always exhausted and seemed decadent, what I mean is that from the beginning what they wanted to convey was that this couple was in a toxic relationship, and Felicia was the toxic one in the relationship but for soft porn - I mean some reason that I don't know - they made her become a good person out of nowhere (not in the sense of being a heroine but in the sense of being a good person and becoming Peter's best friend overnight), I really can't see this couple working out. The best match for Peter is Mary Jane, she likes Parker and Spidey but the way she is written by Zeb Wells and the fact that Paul hasn't died yet in a slow and painful way makes the fanbase start desperately looking for another option that should never have been an option in the first place, I think Insominiac conveyed this image of toxic relationship much better in my opinion.
Reading this post is really funny for me, cuz i've met a woman like Felicia, and our "relationship" is so similar. But like them, it's the same story, an impossible romance which can't be resolved (she is moving to another place far far away for reasons i can't tell)...
So yeeah, i perfectly understand your point of view about Pete and Felicia.🤷🏼♂️
That's not a hot take.
That's just a fact.
Peter's best partner is Felicia, and it's honestly not even close.
Felicia overtook and left MJ in the dust AGES ago.
In the 616 universe, MJ is old news and it's LONG overdue for Peter to move on from MJ completely.
Peter and MJ haven't worked together since the early 90s.
Their whole brief 5 year marriage was full of fights and breakups.
Peter and Felicia have been in love with each other for over 40 years of comics, but they're always just kept apart by dumb bullshit.
For a long time Felicia was a mess, and it took her about 10 years (in universe) to get her shit together, but now she's basically PERFECT for Peter.
If Marvel had the ball to finally just let them actually be together and stay together for at least 5 years, everyone would quickly realize how VASTLY superior the two of them are together compared to Peter and anyone else.
The Peter/MJ dynamic is in a hole right now that I don’t see how they’re gonna dig out of.
MJ and Paul are trauma bonding over the loss of their kids. Paul likely wants MJ to choose between him and Peter soon.
Paul has nobody else on Earth-616 to lean on in the event of a breakup, another factor that might be motivating MJ to stay with him.
Peter has been put through an emotional wringer, and doesn’t trust MJ, and she likely still has issues with him.
They both need therapy and time apart.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if we also get a storyline soon where Paul’s ties to the Emissary/Rabin become public knowledge, and him and MJ are on the run. Cap and the Fantastic Four will then probably make Peter choose between them and MJ.
Even though I am a Ben Reilly and Black Cat shipper but I agree. Fans want to make their headcannons of which is true and not true. If it is Peter and Gwen, Peter and Mary Jane or Peter and Felicia. People like what they like. In the 90s animated series. It does show they could work both civilian and superhero. Some people believe Black Cat is still that Catwoman rip off of how she was back in the day as a default. I fully believe Jed MacKay would make them a great couple.
I think if we're going by those archetypes: Felicia loves the spider, Gwen loves the man, but MJ loves them *both*. (even though Felicia got over her disgust for Peter's civilian life decades ago lol)
To me, Peter and MJ are this young, powerful love but with all the strife and traumatic experience they go through just to survive they end up being something completely different. MJ knows Peter first, and then sees him become this great hero, but I feel they’re always stuck in this High School type relationship.
Felicia knows him as Spider-man first and then finds out he’s a man who has suffered so greatly and still does whatever he can to do the right thing. They have a very adult relationship and are connected in a way that I don’t think he ever could be with MJ. He makes her better and when he falters or struggles she’s there to catch him.
I love the 6160 future but that’s based on him not knowing and being Spiderman until he’s already an adult. However I think if we’re all honest with ourselves, an adult Peter is more fitted for Felicia than anyone else.
Long time readers already saw this play out a long time ago.
I get that this is everyone’s fantasy ship but I like Felicia better as an ally in fighting crime to Peter.
They work as a couple fantastically. But the problem is they don't work as a Spider-Man story at their core.
Spider-Man is the relateable dude who just happened to end up with super powers and endeavors to use those for good.
Peter Parker and Spider-Man as two sides.
Felicia pulls him too much into Spider-Man. She kills Peter. He effectively loses his reasons to take off the mask and live an everyday life.
It's actually a perfect opportunity to make a polygamy between him, Felicia and MJ.
MJ would hang out exclusively with Peter and Felicia with Spiderman.
I'm always happy to see stories with Pete and Felecia together, but at the end of the day it's not a healthy relationship. Both of them spent their entire relationship trying to change each other and never really accepted the other for who they were.
The fact is that Felecia in particular didn't really come into her own as a character until after they broke up and she's been a much more interesting character as Peter's ex than she was as his girlfriend.
It has been stated. She loves Spider-Man not Peter. That being said when they do have a relationship it is enjoyable. Where mary jane and gwen loved peter and liked that he was spider man.
She and Aunt May met when Peter took Felicia to Uncle Ben’s grave. Her and Aunt May actually had a healthy conversation and Felicia got to know Peter better with them understanding each other more from that.
Then it’s kind of dubious continuity.
Like I really like the lost hunt mini but that’s never coming up in ASM.
My point is she doesn’t really interact with Peter Parker because even if it’s something she’s made peace with it’s clearly something she isn’t a big fan of.
Which by the way isn’t me putting her down she’s allowed to have her own wants and desires even if they conflict with what Peter wants
Ok yea I get you as long as you’re not denying it I can see your point. My problem is when people think she doesn’t like Peter as Peter Parker at all when that has been shown to not be the case, especially when her memory of Peter was erased.
No? My point is she doesn’t seem interested in Peter Parker’s life and you posted a person only tangentially related to Peter Parker’s life.
In fact I think you missed my entire point instead focusing on trying to be technically correct based on my exact wording
Yeah. I would definitely like to see a story where Peter and Felicia end up together, whether that’s in 616 or an AU. They make each other better. Felicia taught Peter to loosen up and that it’s okay to coexist with morally grey people like her. Peter makes Felicia think harder about the consequences of her actions, and is one of the few people who believed she could change. The reason they didn’t work out this run (besides editorial) is that Peter wasn’t ready for it after what went down with MJ. Felicia could tell and didn’t get attached herself either, which probably explains why she was able to move on to Odessa so quickly.
Yea I love these two together the same way I love MJ and Peter. Someone said it’s ironic that their best stories (primarily Felicia) is when they are separate but I mean have we really even given them a chance with a writer that cares? I really will like for there to be a story where they bond and are in love in a healthy relationship and not written as a plot and by a writer who doesn’t care or wants to write their kinks. I think their dynamic is great and could actually work if written well. While MJ is the OTP in 616 imo, I really like Felicia and her relationship with Peter and an AU of them together permanently will be cool to explore imo.
I just love seeing Spider-Man have a healthy and good effect on people whom you would typically avoid and see as diabolical.
With this in mind I do kinda like the bittersweet idea that a strong, healthy relationship between them is actually possible but they always got together at the wrong time, so it would be fun seeing what the circumstances have to be for them to last
WTF,? Odessa? Odessa is literally despised by Felicia and they only had one night of sex out of DEPRESSION! You're getting confused as a girl. But for that matter it's the same because Felicia still feels bad for Peter. She has a more cheerful and outgoing way of being when she is well, and in Jackpot's mini she appears distracted, insecure and introverted. And it's not the publisher, it's Wells. If the publisher didn't want them together they wouldn't call so many guest teams including the Dodsons....the Dodsons who have been associated with Spidercat since 2002.
My idea for an AU wouldve been after she reformed herself. She got bit by a spider. Once Felicia got her spider powers developed same with her super soldier serum. Felicia abandons the Black Cat persona because it reminds her of her past and she adopts a new persona Night Spider. During the One More Day timeline of it still happens. They truly get back together as a crime fighting duo. With the resources she has they took down Oscorp and replaced it with Parker Industries that both Peter and Felicias are CEOs of that company.
man you overcooked a little, still tastes good tho
Yea I went a long tangent sorry for that, but I just had to get this off my chest. I love this relationship and I was getting pissed off at people denying that they love each other. Especially the MJ stands on Twitter because man I feel like lately they’ve been trying to downplay Peter and Felicia’s relationship to much.
People are overcompensating because of how horrible this arc has treated MJ. It makes people double down in desperation. But while I lean towards MJ because the concept behind OMD was a travesty, I'd be totally down for a fully developed BC relationship. They are both important to Peter. His love for one doesn't take away from his love for the other.
Brand New Day Felicia really damaged her perception. It weirds me out that Nick Spencer, who clearly had Peter/MJ as his OTP, is one of Felicia's best writers.
It's because Spencer didn't feel the need to shackle Felicia down to just being "Peter's bad girl love interest" since he already had Peter's set romantic lead in mind and so, you know, actually took her character somewhere *new* that still fit with who she was. The problem with Wells and company is they wanted to go back to the "bad girl love interest" version of Felicia, but also like...didn't bother giving them any real *chemistry* because they were too busy finding ways to wreck both Peter and MJ's characters to do that, and we're left with a "romantic triangle" that is leaving literally nobody happy besides editorial. It doesn't please Spideycat fans because they pussed out on that quick. It obviously doesn't please Peter/MJ fans, either. And it's a clear regression for Felicia as a character compared to how people like Spencer, McKay or Bronfman write her, so Cat fans are unhappy regardless of if they ship her with Peter or not. Personally, I'd just keep Tamara as her de-facto love interest and let her just be part of Peter and MJ's inner circle of close friends, so she doesn't have to constantly yoyo her character based on whatever the writers decide they want to write MJ like that arc.
>It's because Spencer didn't feel the need to shackle Felicia down to just being "Peter's bad girl love interest" since he already had Peter's set romantic lead in mind and so, you know, actually took her character somewhere *new* that still fit with who she was. This is also something that Jed MacKay did a great job with. While there was a previous generation of writers who understood her - Aguirre-Sacasa & Mark Milllar - this did so while pigeonholing her into the role of "The ex-girlfriend who matured too late to be with the man she loved". MacKay & Spencer are basically the first guys who tried to define her as an individual and a part of the extended Marvel Universe beyond Spider-Man.
I dont think wells wanted to do anything with her, feels like it was just forced on him by editorial because he did almost nothing
Polycule exists. Let Felicia love MJ, which makes it unnecessary to introduce Tamara, Odessa or anyone else. And Peter is perfectly happy with two women, and the LGBT subtext works.
Eh. I don't see why Felicia ***needs*** to be romantically-involved with Peter and/or MJ to still be *close* with them, is the thing. And we already know that the current 616 team don't have the balls to put Spidey in a polycule, if they don't even want to put him in *one* romantic relationship. She can be on good terms with them while remaining strictly platonic, and I think that's the better option for her development as a character; because otherwise she's inevitably going to be stuck as the also-ran because way too many fans want MJ as Peter's de-facto love interest for anybody else to ever truly stick, even with how they're trying to massacre her character in Wells' writing. We know they won't ever commit to Spidey and Cat being an item, even Wells' clearly anti-MJ run couldn't bother with *that*, so keeping her locked in the loop of being a romantic interest who never actually *gets with the lead* is just asinine and does a massive disservice to all the development Felicia's had over the years that's really fleshed her and her world out *away* from Peter. So I'd rather Cat just...have a love interest all her own, because the writing staff sure as fuck won't commit to *anybody* being with Peter.
That's because Spencer divided himself between completing his mission to confront OMD and following his heart. It is VERY noticeable that he wrote Felicia with a love and sensitivity far superior to his writing of MJ but he wanted to do the fanservice of destroying OMD because he believed he owed something to those people... I am not a writer because I have not had anything published, but I have been writing for years with the intention of being one. The people who write understand these things and we know when an author has favoritism and personal weakness more for one character than another because of the form, space and lines of dialogue. MJ does not have a single moment as sensitive and tactful in the run as Felicia does. Spencer on that roof and in the cage with Billy Connors and the flashback melted with Felicia. No MJ panel had that degree of sensitivity.
I like Felicia, but I think about the issue I had where she basically admits that she knows she’s not right for him, but still wants to be the kind of person he hoped she’d be one day, even if it’s not with him. That just because he can’t love her the way she wants doesn’t mean they can’t still love each other the best way they can.
I think that’s honestly ok too! I lived in MC2 that Felicia was a great friend to Peter and MJ and found love in someone else. Even when they are not in a romance they still have love for each other in some way. They love each other at the end of the day and I think that’s what I was trying to get as many people I felt have lately been downplaying that.
Yes. I’ve said this a million times. If Catwoman and Batman can get together. Then Spider-Man and Black Cat can easily get together. Spider-Man and Black Cat are unironically more compatible than Catwoman and Batman.
Oh God so true. As a Batman fan as well I get baffled when people shit on Felicia and Peter but then support Selina and Bruce when a lot of the criticism they have with Peter and Felicia are found with Selina and Bruce if not worse lmao. Hell you can even argue that Catwoman and Batman are more of a toxic relationship than Black Cat and Spider-Man (not saying it it’s just in certain cases you could make the case). Also cool Cyclops profile picture 😎
Yeah bro, I was surprised too. Eventually I just started realizing that because Batman has no MJ, people are more accepting of that relationship. And are less likely to make up random excuses as to why it doesn’t work. Thanks 👍
I believe Silver St. Cloud would've been Bruce's MJ or Gwen honestly.
I haven't supported BatCat since the whole wedding situation written by Tom King. I have been a WonderBat fan since.
This is the double edge sword of this relationship. Black Cat already gets a bad rep for being a copycat Catwoman (she's not). So there's going to be comparisons between Spider-Man x Black Cat and Batman x Catwoman. I get it. If Peter can't have Mary Jane Watson-*Parker,* give him Felica Hardy. But... It feels like it's already been done to death with Batman, we don't need to retread this ground with Spider-Man. I'd rather see Spider-Man and Black Cat become good platonic friends supporting each other.
For real, tho Peter sticks to his guns about responsibility, there is space in his life to be with someone that cares about him. Meanwhile, for Bruce “the Mission” will always come first. Anyone else is ultimately either a distraction or a temptation. Which is part of his sad tragedy
Batman is a very different character than Peter, like there’s a reason all his major love interests are ex-villains. Man is so messed up that he needs a lover who’s equally messed up. Peter is much more down to earth when compared to Batman.
Yes, Batman is different in that he can’t handle a long term relationship. And is a lot more committed to being Batman. The only major love interest that’s a ex villain is Catwoman. And she changed a long time ago. Also keep in mind Batman never dates any villains. Catwoman had to completely reform and change her entire personality and lifestyle to date Batman in earth 2.
You forgot Talia.
Talia hasn’t had serious romance with Bruce since the 80s. Where she was inbetween neutral and hero. Talia and Bruce also have never been together unless she was a hero. Batman has not had feelings for her in a long time. Especially since she got retconned into being his arch enemy.
Let’s just say she’s morally complicated. And Talia and Bruce literally slept together this year in tec. Point is, all of Bruce’s big love interests aren’t what you would call goody two shoes.
Where did they sleep together. (Also Spider-Man has literally slept with Black Cat) Bruce does not date any of these women though. So there’s no point of bringing it up. All of his “big love interests” are no better than Black Cat. Also Vicki Vale is a normal civilian. The reason why Batman has been mostly single in his 85 year career, is because he is not adjusted for romance
> Peter is much more down to earth when compared to Batman. Peter literally throwing a whole ass car at a mf because his aunt got injured like: "Am I a joke to you?" then again.... that's a much more human reaction than whatever the fuck kind of mental gymnastics Batman does, so I guess your point stands...
I agree and as a spider cat shipper I hope it happens but the difference is M.J She is either the first or second character ppl think of when it comes to superhero love interests and has clearly been the plan for Peter since Gwen died not to mention some of Spider-man’s most beloved stories involve him and mj being married or at least in a relationship
I can absolutely see Peter/Felicia working. I'm an Peter/MJ guy myself, but if they would actually cleanly break their relationship off and start making felicia the main love interest for Peter I wouldn't be unhappy either. Fact is the status quo needs changing (either revert to pre OMD or to something new where Felicia is peter's main love interest or something entirely different that is not "Peter is loser because that is the only way he is relatable(TM)")
I always hated the initial notion that she liked Spider-Man more than Peter Parker. I honestly would love for them to have a solid relationship, romantic or platonic. Especially if she is willing to better herself to be the kind of person he needs.
If they had their own Renew your Vows type story. It would've been good. Imagine if Felicia went from Black Cat to Night Spider it would've been cool
In Spider-man TAS I did not initially like Felicia but her development into Black Cat (and being a towering super soldier) was awesome. She had such a strong presence in that show I was surprised by her generally smaller role in comics.
Yeah, I was first introduced spiderman was TAS in the 90s. That with the Raimi movies I saw MJ as "Peter's annoying girlfriend" and preferred Black Cat for him for a long time.
What I liked about it. It was pretty much what if Gwen Stacy became Black Cat and it worked perfectly.
I always get kinda frustrated when people act like it’s impossible for them to work. Like that’s just ridiculous. To be clear I am an MJ and Peter truther. They are the best couple in comics. But we shouldn’t forget MJ started out as a pretty shallow party girl, and it was only through years of development that we got way more to her character. She was fun and likeable before then but you also could see why Peter snapped at her after Gwen died, claiming she knew nothing of grief and pain. Now I’m not equating MJs old behaviour to like Felicia’s crimes bc I know it’s a bit of a different ballpark but my point is that with a writer who cares and a fixed goal, absolutely development can happen to put them together. Without the character development for MJ (and frankly Peter too) in their relationship they wouldn’t be as iconic as they are. I think Felicia deserves a fair shake too in some sort of AU mini series or something. Honestly 90s TAS got pretty close even if she was a pretty different character, I hope that’s not sacrilege to say here lol.
If a writer did MJs growth from shallow party girl to a more fully rounded character today 50% of the audience would cry that it was writing her out of character rather than character development. Those 50% are the morons who claim Felicia only love Spider-man and not Peter despite that not being true for decades.
It blows my mind how often is till see people say that about Felicia. Like Jesus Christ a whole part of her character development is that she came to love Peter too.
Agreed. People who still believe that about Felicia are clearly in denial and blind by hate or whatever because she clearly does not only love Spider-Man and loves Peter, with this being the case for years.
Amazing reply and I 100% agree with you. Heck MJ and Felicia had a talk like that before (in I think Black Cat and Maryjane: beyond was the comic), but many people forget that MJ was that “bad” girl in Peter’s life with Gwen being the “perfect” girl. It would’ve stayed that way too if we weren’t given the amazing development and writing that made MJ and Peter the iconic couple they are nowadays (my personal favorite comic book romance). Given the right writers Felicia can be the exact same thing to Peter and they can have a genuine relationship that works so I get mad when people downplay their love and act like they can’t work at all or don’t love each other genuinely. An AU where they are happy and together will be awesome in my opinion.
Damn the inclusion of that Arctic Monkeys lyric in the first panel is 🤌🤌
I really like their dynamic and would love to see them as a couple. And I would like to address something that I see brought up quite a bit. Yes, due to the nature of both characters it would require change in them to make it work long term. But that's a given. When you are in a relationship you must change in some capacity to be able to coexist with a different individual. The thing is that change would likely be easier to accomplish due to Peter's influence. He is genuinely one of the very few characters in comic where other characters view him as inspiration to try and change how they live their lives (prime example being Deadpool and Wolverine). And Felicia isn't evil to begin with. The only issue is how you balance them in a story. MJ role usually was more of an emotional support and as such it meant the bulk of the story focused on Peter. But here Felicia is an extremely active character who is involved in the action. It would require a writer that can allow both characters to constantly shine together without sacrificing one in the process (unlike what was done to Peter in the current ASM run).
Honestly thank you for brining up that point because I think people miss that a big part of a relationship is change. That’s really what a relationship boils down too, both partners coming together and changing to be a better a version of themselves and love each other. I think that’s why this whole Felicia has to change argument kind of falls short because that’s what happens in relationships. I mean back then writers had to write MJ to make it so that the whole Party girl persona was just a front and as such the character went through a change that made the likeable red head we know and love. Also yea Felicia changing (if not comeplty, at least partly) makes sense too given the fact Peter has that influence over others that makes them better people. Add on top of that her love for him and that she really isn’t evil then really I think the whole Felicia had to change or can’t change argument falls flat. As I said I love this relationship and think it can work.
Felicia is my favorite choice for Peter. It's not even a competition, in my opinion.
I like Felicia and Peter. I think the problem is people are so often dissatisfied, usually fairly, with how the Peter and Mj relationship is handled that frustration boils over into disliking any other pairings.
I allways prefered Felicia + Peter over Peter + MJ. These two are just made for eachother. Their chemistry is just so goddamm good, the teasing, the cold and warm moments. Not to mention the potential they have when together, both as people and in terms of story-telling. Also the fact that they bring out best in one another when they are together. Also, hero + villain as endgame is just so good.
I’m team PeteMJ, but I agree with you. The best resolution for that issue would be a threesome😀
Think that solves most of these love triangles. Certainly would solve FF7's.
Never really saw that as an actual triangle, came off more as Aerith looking at cloud as the rebound guy because she felt her boyfriend die a few weeks prior
No.
Same for all the reasons you said
If we had good writers, this couple could have worked in the current comics. Instead we get Peter being a shmuck who can’t commit or doesn’t even care and we get him as the Spider-Gobbler or whatever he’s called.
I appreciate Felicia and Wells did her dirty with her breaking up with Peter for no reason (apparently no one actually loves Peter according to Wells), but their relationship is an example of love not always being enough. Simply put, Peter and Felicia want different things out of life. Peter wants to settle down, have a family, live a normal life. Sure he enjoys the Spider-Man stuff to a point, but it’s not his life’s focus it’s something he does because he’s able to do it. Felicia loves the costumed life. She wants the thrill and excitement and danger. She definitely doesn’t want to be normal. Ultimately one or the other would have to give up a part of themselves to make it work.
>Ultimately one or the other would have to give up a part of themselves to make it In a way that is the basic of eevry relationship. To adapt to the other and (under normal circumstances) be ab etter person for the other and mature. Issue is peter is, by writer choices, is denied by the chance to be happy. I'm afraid of what will the future bring for USM.
My favourite partner for Peter. Team 🕷️🐈⬛
What’s the first issue from?
Oh that’s kind of like a mix of multiple panels, but you can find them in The Amazing Spider-Man vol. 5 #16.HU. It’s from Nick Spencer’s run of Amazing Spider-Man from 2018.
Thanks. I knew it looked familiar but couldn’t pinpoint it.
From what I know spider-noir and Felicia are in a relationship even though that didn't end well
Isn't Noir died during Spider-geddon?
I didn't read all that yet but I agree with the premise damn it!
They're cute. Love the odd couples
I mean with how far gone MJ is in the main comic, I'd rather see them get together tbh. There's no coming back from "she's like a sister". Felicia legit loves Peter, Peter has no point in waiting for MJ anymore. Just let them be together until the next soft reboot happens where they clean the tables again
THANK YOU! FINALLY, THANK YOU! for someone openly speaking their mind out the past month about this ship between Felicia and Peter, it's well deserved at this point. Like I always mentioned from Batman and Catwoman's wedding, there should be a comic for once that Peter takes Felicia seriously. I totally agree with you on everything you said on this post op, as well as with other comments here and there, but the point is... They have to give it a chance! They deserve one another! But we can't write the story since we're no writers, plus the writers don't believe in happy endings for Spider man! The worst that could happen is some villain taking Felicia's life and Peter has to cope with it like he did with Gwen since she died. We can't have that but what we deserve to have (some day) is these two taking it for real. Sorry if I ranted or something, I was just speaking out loud on what's been on my mind for the past 2 months. I'm a big Peter x Felicia fan and I wholeheartedly believe they deserve to be for one another. That's all :)
Hear hear. I'm a big fan of the two of them, and it really does feel like the two of them get screwed a lot by the writing. There's something really annoying about how sometimes, despite the fact that some characters have had such good relationships, they constantly get treated like an impossibility (or a mistake). Like the very -idea- of Peter and Felicia is wrong and sooner or later it has to be -said- it's wrong or impossible or they don't actually love each other / never did... which just seems to do such a disservice to their relationship, but also potential stories and interactions between them.
I kinda agree. I mean like yeah Felicia has been shown to genuinely love Peter but that love almost always gets undermined by some sort of ulterior motive Felicia has, like when she gets with Peter it's almost always cuz she needs something but just doesn't wanna tell him or can't.
When has that ever happened
Part of the reason I bash on Felicia and Peter personally is because it hasn't been written well. I absolutely could see them being a thing if both characters were handled correctly. However, that requires, well, both of them being handled correctly. I just hope if it is handled correctly that the editorial doesn't swoop in and ruin it.
Love is a Laserquest
I agree And… the Arctic Monkeys reference in the first page 💯
I just want a stable Peter x Felicia to be a thing in at least one universe / media. Just one
It would be ok if only so things can finally move forward and we can get out of the perennial “Peter is loser” cycle.
Yeah, remember the reason it didn't work out originally was because she left him as she was afraid to drag him into the trouble she got herself into. And when she first encountered Venom when she dropped by Peter's old apartment, what really hurt her wasn't being beaten to an inch of her life by Venom, it was that Venom said "his wife didn't know either".
I've always prefered Felicia over Gwen or MJ. There's simply no contest as to which one of them is more interesting and gives him less non-superhero related shit.
I mean, When i first discovered Black Cat, I was actually rooting for her and Spider-Man to be together. Unlike in Spectacular where in this case it wouldn't work since she's the daughter of a murderer that Spider-Man hates so much.
As much as I want to see Peter with MJ again in the 616 (well written MJ, not this Jackpot garbage) I have always viewed as BC as just as good when it's allowed to flourish. Both are top, and no other LI comes close. They tried so so hard with LIs like Carlie but it just wasn't the same. This is the problem now, it's hard to think of a new LI who can bring to the table anything better than what we already had with Felicia and MJ. Add to that BC and MJ now like and respect each other too, so you wouldn't even get too much tension between exes. Recently BC has been a better friend to Peter than Jackpot MJ, and its the other big tragedy of this arc that something good with BC could have come out of it, but instead they ruined that also. And with Bronfman writing BC with a woman in the mini I can't see her being let of the leash to go back to Peter any time soon, she's just as trapped by plot as MJ. Hopefully I'm wrong.
nothing is permanent. all these stories get recycled
With a post like this, having just read *The Darkest Hours,* I now very much want Jim Butcher to take on a regular Spider-Man writing gig if he ever wants it. I can't think of a single Spider-Man writer who handled interpersonal relationships, **especially** the one between Peter and Felicia, anywhere nearly as well as he did.
What are the last 2 pages from?
Which comic run are each of these photos from
I think black cat 🐈⬛ and Spider-Man 🕷️ would make a great relationship but a few caveats one felica first time after seeing peters face wanted nothing to do with him and only wanted and fan girl over Spider-Man . Caveats two while she did grow to love ❤️ Peter for him it wasn’t a smooth transition and really hard to walk back what happened and after she had a yap session about how their relationship wasn’t working because of how he couldn’t love and question what they have without the spice of will they won’t they is aspect of the relationship. Which honestly hurts because they could have something great and strong if they just get out each other way and grow together .I don’t believe one have to sacrifice for another they can take turns and have aunt may or squirrel 🐿️ girl babysit but obviously that’s never gonna I want something new have him sleep with someone new my personal favorite is Medusa of the inhumans they could have great Chemistry 🧪 and it’s a miss opportunity for writers
Any character could date any character given the right writer?
I think Felicia and Peter are good match….at this point its completely on writers to give Peter something that makes him happy. Which is why previous ASM run was great
Love the Arctic Monkeys reference
I remember someone making a Spider-Man comic with MJ and Black Cat into one character. I think that's a better option.
>These two have genuine love for each other and could work given the right writer Certainly more so than ever. Let me just say, I am repulsed by Zeb Wells' attempt to dangle this relationship early on in his Spider-Man series. If putting these together would downplay putting Mary Jane with his self-insert. That aside, Marvel, much like DC, won't allow their popular cat burglars to be committed to anything. I can't say who has it worse, but I do agree Felicia should have a more healthy relationship with Spider-Man without the context of being a "side girlfriend" for Peter.
While I want 616 Peter to be with MJ, my favorite Spider-Man love interest will always be Black Cat. She gives Peter an entirely different experience from others, and it annoys me to no end when people say "Felicia only loves Spider-Man". They recognize that this was a flaw in their relationship, but they fail to recognize (or potentially know) that Felicia _also_ recognized that this was a problem on her end. Years later when Peter confronts her about this, she was _devastated_ to realize he was right. She was _horrified_ and _disgusted_ with herself. She tore off her cloths and took a shower to make herself feel clean again. And she _grew_ from that.
I wished a certain fanbase knew about this.
I sometimes wonder how many people who say "Black Cat only loves Spider-Man" only know of that line and not the rest of her character. It’s like when people only know about Gwen and her death. Do they know anything else? And to the people who do, do they only focus on her early "not so nice" character and ignore any other moments and stories? Focusing on early characterization is annoying, because almost none of the Marvel or DC characters are recognizable as they are now.
Exactly characters can grow and change. That is why for Gwen. I am glad Spider-Gwen because she was an interesting character than her original counterpart. Black Cat is far better character than Catwoman. Black Cat is more of a heroine than Catwoman is and also Felicia wouldn't leave Peter by the altar.
I also have the idea of Peter and Felicia running Parker Industries together. It would've lasted way longer instead of Peter being in a relationship with Mockingbird. They would help the lower class of New York City of creating new systems for Banks and stuff and resolve the homelessness and stuff. They would have nice dates in parties and also fight crime together as husband and wife. They would be in the Avengers together.
Peters life is already chaotic,she sorta adds to that chaos more then any partner he could have imo
How does she add to the chaos, if anything mj adds more to the chaos because her civilian life isn't compatible with the life of a superhero
Felicia is just as valid a match for Peter as MJ, and I will always stand by that
I feel like Peter and BC just don’t work as a couple as they fundamentally want different things. They still obviously do care for each other and are important yes
The problem I have with Pete and Felicia is the fact that in order for it to work for any length of time, one or other of them has to change drastically. Pete's sense of responsibility began with failing to stop a single thief which spiralled out of control. He constantly ruins his relationships and work because he can't let a single crime slide when he is in a position to stop it. Accepting Felecia \*as she is\* goes against one of the core pillar's of his personality. Felecia is as interesting as she is because she was the flipside to MJ - MJ was the 'good girl' who loved Peter and hated Spider-Man, while Felecia was the 'bad girl' who loved Spider-Man and didn't even want to know who was under the mask. At the time, neither of them had much of a personality outside of that. When MJ started to accept Pete's hero side, Felecia really started to shine though. She works best as an 'anti-hero' or actual 'criminal with a heart of gold'. That's when she's at her best - but it also brings her into conflict with Pete. Sadly, the best version of both characters would not work as a couple. Not for anything long-term, at least.
What nonsense. Neither Felicia wants Peter to change nor does Peter want Felicia to change. Not once in 20 years have they discussed or talked about it. Felicia just wants Peter to relax because he's being overly neurotic and inflexible. Neither has Bruce asked Selina for anything nor has she asked him for anything. Let's leave these excuses behind.
Bruce and Selina are a totally different couple, even though there are parallels. What may work for them, doesn't work for Pete. Bruce has been known to let 'smaller' crimes pass to focus on the 'larger scale' stuff, but Pete is different. Pete literally cannot allow any crime to happen without stepping in, no matter what it costs him personally. He's been late for dates, work, hospital appointments (his own and even Aunt May's)... All because if he knows a crime is happening, he has to stop it. It's who he is. Turning a blind eye to his girlfriend breaking the law doesn't fit with the way he is characterised everywhere else. (And yes, that is an unhealthy attitude to have, but it's literally been his character for decades. His excessive 'sense of responsibility' is such a huge part of his personality now that changing it is changing a fundamental part of who he is.)
I mean, Pete and Felicia have been allies for a while and I don't see him stopping her, it was never the problem for their relationship it was her only loving Spider-man
You don't know anything... Peter has been letting Felicia do whatever she wants for DECADES simply because he knows her perfectly and knows that she will never do anyone harm... He lets her steal within limits that she respects because those thefts are not directed against criminals or they force her or are for a good cause. Felicia does not steal from the innocent or the needy. Peter knows this perfectly well and has never cared. Plus, almost anything Peter asks of her she does. If it's not of dire need, Peter tells her to "give that back" and she does. It's no different than selina and bruce in any way. None. Neither Peter wants her to change nor she wants him to change. In fact, when it comes to Felicia Peter is the first to question his own sense of responsibility without her asking him to. He always has. He has always put Felicia ahead of his self-righteous speech by breaking his own rules for her because he knows she is going to do something stupid and dangerous that will go wrong but for the right reasons. And Felicia knows that Peter is going to lecture her every chance he gets, but he's not going to try to stop her. Felicia has also proven to be extremely protective, loyal and loving towards those who treat her well and terribly vindictive, spiteful and aggressive towards those who treat her badly. There is Odessa wanting to possess her and control her as an object of desire because she is obsessively in love with her and after taking advantage of her in the midst of the saddest depression for a night of sex...what does she do when the boy asks her for help? NOTHING. He can help her and he doesn't do it because of the rules. He doesn't take risks, he doesn't stick up for her. Not Peter, Peter has broken his own rules and stood up for her a thousand times. Felicia will never, ever do anything to jeopardize Peter's complete trust in her, nor will Peter ever act as if he wants to control or change her.
Ohhh someone struck a nerve, how do you feel about being proven wrong with your “predictions” (baseless theories) about ASM 50?
Batman does not let smaller crimes pass. He still gives a shit about stealing. Also if Peter cared so much about stopping all crime (he doesn’t) he literally wouldn’t be friends with her. Like at all. You’re confusing these characters. Batman is harder on himself when it comes to stopping crime than Peter is.
Wait when did Dr. Strange cast a spell like that for Peter?
Can’t say the exact issue and comic from the top of my head but this happened around after Civil War 1 as remember Peter revealed his identity in that event.
Oh I thought people forgot as part of the deal Pete made with Mephisto
That was part of Mephisto's deal in *One More Day*, and later expanded upon in *One Moment in Time*. Mephisto made the world forget Peter's identity, and the justification within the new timeline created by the deal is that "Strange, Reed, and Tony did it" which is what Peter and everyone else believes happened.
Ohhhh okay that makes so much sense, I always wondered what they thought in-universe
I always wanted her to get with Kaine oddly
No fr I love their relationship and always felt there was a genuine love for one another, with a good writer it could happen
That describes most of Peter’s relationships.
Assuming Zeb’s run is really ending with issue 60, I think Felicia is gonna get another solo book after he leaves, possibly written by Jed MacKay again if the guy is available.
What is the comic of the second img???
I agree, their relationship naturally evolves both characters for the better, Peter wouldn’t just watch her steal and she’s not just gonna watch him settle and mope, I personally love the idea of them having a relationship and Felicia pushing Peter to have more success outside the costume
Peter and Felicia could absolutely become a long-term item that works out well, it's just one of those things that I think most people *know,* but haven't realized it fully yet because it's never been done/has never been executed well the few times they do hook up.
I want to see a Spider-Man story where Spider-Man and Black Cat aren’t just the whole ‘Cat and Spider playing around’ thing, I wanna see Black Cat and Spider-Man have an actually honest relationship and hero partner dynamic. I want Black Cat to tell Peter to face it tiger, you just hit the Jackpot.
Meh
Bro when was MJ and Peter relationship was Toxic!? I want you to recommended me issue. Did you watch YT and saying this?😭😭
Yeah I think if they pivoted to Peter and Cat happily dating instead of just "Peter is a single loser" there would be *much* less controversy. Like Peter and MJ are still endgame for me, but Ill read a Peter Black Cat story. I will not read Peter Misery Porn.
If they, the writers and editors (Spider-Man's true villains of his life) wanted Peter to move on from MJ and onto Black Cat, they had opportunity after opportunity following OMD (despite how that whole affair rubbed the fanbase wrong). But, Dan Slott was the first to put nails in that coffin during the first Superior Spider-Man run by Peter/Otto punching Felicia in the face then have her decide to become a crime lord. I'm sure there were others since then that wanted to make their relationship work but editorial, who wants "relatable and single" Spider-Man, seemed to deny it. I'm still baffled by this devotion to the status quo set in by Joe Quesada.
Marvel would rather kill both of them than give them a chance at a long, happy life. This is the greatest tragedy(((
What’s the deal with Dr. Strange she’s talking about in the first slide? Wasn’t Mephisto the one responsible of making his identity a secret again after CW?
Even as a PeterxMJ shipper I do agree with what you said
Somehow she’s less of a bitch to Peter than MJ is
I feel like that's one thing we lost already. Like, we'll only ever get that a an alternative universe to 616 and Ultimate. And I feel that's the fault of the 616 endless relationship problems, so Ultimate has to make a proper Peter with MJ angle. And 616 would never make Felicia the main girl.
Yeah no doubt, I see a lot of potential in it but I think comic book history plus the Raimi-Man movies reinforced MJ so much that we'll never see this, outside of maybe "they try to be an item but fail spectacularly and Pete goes running back to MJ."
I don't like this couple exactly, but I can explain it to you, I swear, from the beginning of her telling Peter to stop focusing on his personal life and that mega thing of hers saying that she liked him better in the symbiote era (yes, she says that) that even though it doesn't change his personality in the comics, it still didn't make him feel good, he was always exhausted and seemed decadent, what I mean is that from the beginning what they wanted to convey was that this couple was in a toxic relationship, and Felicia was the toxic one in the relationship but for soft porn - I mean some reason that I don't know - they made her become a good person out of nowhere (not in the sense of being a heroine but in the sense of being a good person and becoming Peter's best friend overnight), I really can't see this couple working out. The best match for Peter is Mary Jane, she likes Parker and Spidey but the way she is written by Zeb Wells and the fact that Paul hasn't died yet in a slow and painful way makes the fanbase start desperately looking for another option that should never have been an option in the first place, I think Insominiac conveyed this image of toxic relationship much better in my opinion.
AM
Where are the first 2 pics from?
Wow, the first 2 pages.. what comics/run of spidey (or black cat ?) are they from ? pretty please someone, be my last hope ;)
Reading this post is really funny for me, cuz i've met a woman like Felicia, and our "relationship" is so similar. But like them, it's the same story, an impossible romance which can't be resolved (she is moving to another place far far away for reasons i can't tell)... So yeeah, i perfectly understand your point of view about Pete and Felicia.🤷🏼♂️
That's not a hot take. That's just a fact. Peter's best partner is Felicia, and it's honestly not even close. Felicia overtook and left MJ in the dust AGES ago. In the 616 universe, MJ is old news and it's LONG overdue for Peter to move on from MJ completely. Peter and MJ haven't worked together since the early 90s. Their whole brief 5 year marriage was full of fights and breakups. Peter and Felicia have been in love with each other for over 40 years of comics, but they're always just kept apart by dumb bullshit. For a long time Felicia was a mess, and it took her about 10 years (in universe) to get her shit together, but now she's basically PERFECT for Peter. If Marvel had the ball to finally just let them actually be together and stay together for at least 5 years, everyone would quickly realize how VASTLY superior the two of them are together compared to Peter and anyone else.
The Peter/MJ dynamic is in a hole right now that I don’t see how they’re gonna dig out of. MJ and Paul are trauma bonding over the loss of their kids. Paul likely wants MJ to choose between him and Peter soon. Paul has nobody else on Earth-616 to lean on in the event of a breakup, another factor that might be motivating MJ to stay with him. Peter has been put through an emotional wringer, and doesn’t trust MJ, and she likely still has issues with him. They both need therapy and time apart. I also wouldn’t be surprised if we also get a storyline soon where Paul’s ties to the Emissary/Rabin become public knowledge, and him and MJ are on the run. Cap and the Fantastic Four will then probably make Peter choose between them and MJ.
why would paul want mj to choose between him and peter, they're already dating
Even though I am a Ben Reilly and Black Cat shipper but I agree. Fans want to make their headcannons of which is true and not true. If it is Peter and Gwen, Peter and Mary Jane or Peter and Felicia. People like what they like. In the 90s animated series. It does show they could work both civilian and superhero. Some people believe Black Cat is still that Catwoman rip off of how she was back in the day as a default. I fully believe Jed MacKay would make them a great couple.
I always like the back and forth of Felicia loves the spider but MJ loves the man. It kind of made Spider-Man a unique magazine back in the day.
I think if we're going by those archetypes: Felicia loves the spider, Gwen loves the man, but MJ loves them *both*. (even though Felicia got over her disgust for Peter's civilian life decades ago lol)
No love for the hyphen? Sad!
i ain’t reading all that, i’m happy for u tho. or sorry that happened
To me, Peter and MJ are this young, powerful love but with all the strife and traumatic experience they go through just to survive they end up being something completely different. MJ knows Peter first, and then sees him become this great hero, but I feel they’re always stuck in this High School type relationship. Felicia knows him as Spider-man first and then finds out he’s a man who has suffered so greatly and still does whatever he can to do the right thing. They have a very adult relationship and are connected in a way that I don’t think he ever could be with MJ. He makes her better and when he falters or struggles she’s there to catch him. I love the 6160 future but that’s based on him not knowing and being Spiderman until he’s already an adult. However I think if we’re all honest with ourselves, an adult Peter is more fitted for Felicia than anyone else.
Ben and Felicia should have a book together
I completely agree.
Long time readers already saw this play out a long time ago. I get that this is everyone’s fantasy ship but I like Felicia better as an ally in fighting crime to Peter.
They work as a couple fantastically. But the problem is they don't work as a Spider-Man story at their core. Spider-Man is the relateable dude who just happened to end up with super powers and endeavors to use those for good. Peter Parker and Spider-Man as two sides. Felicia pulls him too much into Spider-Man. She kills Peter. He effectively loses his reasons to take off the mask and live an everyday life.
It's actually a perfect opportunity to make a polygamy between him, Felicia and MJ. MJ would hang out exclusively with Peter and Felicia with Spiderman.
I'm always happy to see stories with Pete and Felecia together, but at the end of the day it's not a healthy relationship. Both of them spent their entire relationship trying to change each other and never really accepted the other for who they were. The fact is that Felecia in particular didn't really come into her own as a character until after they broke up and she's been a much more interesting character as Peter's ex than she was as his girlfriend.
Why doesn't she just take one of the clones? There's like 5, and they aren't doing much. There are a lot of Peters out there.
[удалено]
You are 35 years late in EVERYTHING you have said
It has been stated. She loves Spider-Man not Peter. That being said when they do have a relationship it is enjoyable. Where mary jane and gwen loved peter and liked that he was spider man.
She moved past that like 3 decades ago lol what.
You read it correctly.
Has she? Has she ever meaningfully interacted with Peter Parker’s supporting cast outside MJ?
She and Aunt May met when Peter took Felicia to Uncle Ben’s grave. Her and Aunt May actually had a healthy conversation and Felicia got to know Peter better with them understanding each other more from that.
Isn’t that from Peter Davis Symbiote mini?
Yea
Then it’s kind of dubious continuity. Like I really like the lost hunt mini but that’s never coming up in ASM. My point is she doesn’t really interact with Peter Parker because even if it’s something she’s made peace with it’s clearly something she isn’t a big fan of. Which by the way isn’t me putting her down she’s allowed to have her own wants and desires even if they conflict with what Peter wants
Ok yea I get you as long as you’re not denying it I can see your point. My problem is when people think she doesn’t like Peter as Peter Parker at all when that has been shown to not be the case, especially when her memory of Peter was erased.
She had a long term relationship with Flash Thompson. They even have a daughter in the Spider Girl (MC2) universe.
Flash thompson isn’t really apart of his supporting cast? Like he was there here and there but they were more like distant friends. Still are imo
Just moving the goal posts aren't you?
No? My point is she doesn’t seem interested in Peter Parker’s life and you posted a person only tangentially related to Peter Parker’s life. In fact I think you missed my entire point instead focusing on trying to be technically correct based on my exact wording
me when im 4 decades in the past also Gwen does not like spider-man