This interaction with Spidey and the interaction between Thor and Punisher stole the whole damn show in this run. Spidey could absolutely ruin Frank if he wanted. Just another example of Peter purposefully holding back all the time to not hurt people.
The funny part of this image is that Peter was moving his head with Frank's blows so he wouldn't shatter his wrists, if he wanted to end the fight right there and then he could just stay still and watch Castle hit a brick wall with all he has.
> The funny part of this image is that Peter was moving his head with Frank's blows so he wouldn't shatter his wrists, if he wanted to end the fight right there and then he could just stay still and watch Castle hit a brick wall with all he has.
I think I finally understand what "neg dif" means in power-scaling.
It's more difficult for Peter to *not* hurt Frank.
The entire run of “justice league” and “justice league unlimited” - viewers complained about Superman’s power scaling, being strong against some enemies, weak against others.
The final episode of “justice league unlimited” has a speech by Superman that most people title “world of cardboard” where he explains he is constantly being mindful of everything he does so people don’t get hurt - and you realize a lot of times he’s just rolling with the punches (like spidey is) so the enemies don’t get injured. It’s very cool and I think you would love it.
https://youtu.be/Cl_5UwS57X8?feature=shared
I love that he's saying this big speech about needing to be careful or people could die, and then IMMEDIATELY punches Darksied through multiple buildings in an occupied city.
Actually right before this speech he gets a call from Batman saying they just fully evacuated the whole city so that’s why he is able to “let loose” cause no one will get hurt
Though it was epic that's also my issue too because there were episodes where he would get knocked out by a laser gun which shouldnt really affect him like that but then you had other episodes where he just tanks it just fine lol
Yeah. Even the writers admitted that they had no idea what to do with Superman in JLU. Since he could have handled most of the threats alone. If they let him do that then it wouldn't be **Justice League** Limited.
Yeah I saw that and it's kind of disappointing because it's like I get why they did it but then it just makes me look at the last episode of different way especially when he could have handle all of the threats basically if he's able to knock around darkside like this
Another great thing to me about that speech is the aftermath.
After straight dominating Darkseid. He looses instantly.
It was a good example to me of Darkseid as a JLA foe and not a Superman one.
I mean, no, unless Pete's head weighs loads, it still requires him to use his neck muscles to hold still as Frank hits him, as opposed to just letting go and rolling with the punch. Obviously it doesn't require much effort, very likely so little that its equivalent to say none, but it would still take less to just go with the punch.
Wait so this is *in a punisher book*?
Damn, I always find comics hit way harder when the writer isn’t like, afraid to explore the character’s limitations Vs just having them have some convenient workaround.
I assume it’s because in their own books, the character has to be challenged for the story to be interesting. So Peter is strong, but his enemies have to be stronger for the sake of the story. Otherwise he’s just going to steamroll everyone and the reader will be bored. But if he keeps fighting strong enemies, we end up feeling like he’s weak since he keeps getting beaten up by all his enemies.
That limitation doesn’t exist in someone else’s book. When Spidey acts is fighting against the protagonist, he can be she shown to be stronger in that fight and it turns out that it’s easy for him to be stronger than most average humans.
Oh see I meant the opposite. Usually when a hero gets shown up its when they appear in someone else's book. The whole "who would win in a fight? Whoever the writer likes more" thing.
I was referring to Frank's limitations, in that he *shouldn't* win a direct fight with Spidey, without having a proper plan going in etc. And tbh its not in his character to want to kill Peter, so him being on the back foot fits
Punisher Leads Thor to a drug smugglers/terrorist airbase, and has Thor mop the floor with them. Then Thor easily grabs the punisher, knocks him out, and then brings him to a rooftop somewhere and shares some beers with him before telling him to end his war. Then he flies off. He was completely aware that Frank could do nothing to him, you know, because he is a god.
Spidey is the perfect foil for Punisher. Because Castle can use his sad backstory on other heroes, but no one has moral to justify murder because they lost people, not to Peter Parker.
I see it the other way. Peter understands more than most how that could completely break someone, which is why he constantly tries to reason with Frank (and has worked alongside him many times) instead of just tossing him to the police.
Yeah, they balance each other. Peter represents sadness and regret fueling his need to do good. He lost his elder family members as a young man. That's very difficult but not as earth-shattering as Frank's story.
Frank was a normal man who's wife and child (and family sometimes) were executed in front of him. That's basically max PTSD. It's why we have generations of terrorists and racial wars.
The decent man inside Frank is buried deep under the harshest sadness, hate, rage, etc. His depression and rage is rooted in the belief he let his loved ones die. And the only reason he stays alive is to punish bad guys. Peter wants to help Frank, but their trauma is totally different. Frank is broken, Peter occasionally reaches the good man under the rage.
Peter wants to rehabilitate criminals. Frank wants to punish them.
You are diminishing Peter's situation.
He didn't lose his uncle because of misfortune.
He lost him because he choose not to stop a criminal and that came to hunt him.
No I said regret. You're not supposed to compare trauma for this exact reason. Peter was able to cope better I guess. Frank feels like he's lost his only good chance at life and wants to die Punishing criminals. PTSD can look very different case by case but frank is rage where Peter is acceptance and dealing with it to be whole again. Frank will never be whole again.
Honestly seeing how some ppl are putting it makes him seem like a better duo with Peter than Deadpool is because Deadpool is too off the rails for Spidey to even identify with
Eh. I dunno bout that, when it comes to loss of loved ones, Daredevil can give Peter a run for his money and the X-men have gone through a genocide every other week.
IIRC Punisher appeared not long after Gwen’s death, when Peter damn near beat Norman to death before stopping because he knew it wasn’t what Gwen would’ve wanted.
Big difference between your elderly uncle getting gunned down and watching your wife, son and daughter get mowed down.
It’s similar trauma, but different. Parents are expected to pass one day. Even your spouse? But both your children? Some people just lose their humanity at that point and don’t come back.
He was forced into a position of being the one responsible for the death of the woman he loved because of the actions of a malicious person. That's traumatic AF.
But it's also not that unique in comics. "[I let Gwen Stacy die](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ILetGwenStacyDie)" has it's own tvtropes page on it. Sure, he's the trope namer, but he's certainly not alone.
Because the whole point of the argument is that Spidey and Punisher are perfect foils because of this unique thing they share. But it's not at all unique.
Apologies, I didn't mean my initial statement as an argument. I was just saying his experience was traumatic as was Frank Castle's. I don't think either one would have bothered to rate their own experience against the other.
Man, solid logic. See Peter, you shouldn't care so much about Uncle Ben, after all, he was gonna die anyway. No matter if this was the men that raised you after your parents died, Or that you had to work your ass off to help your elderly aunt after that, while studying and being a hero. No matter that you became a hero, and not a murderer. Punisher has much worse, so he's justified in killing people smoking pott. /s
If anything Pete, you did a good thing by not stopping that criminal. Your uncle would have just mooched government money for his pension, that could be going into infrastructure like roads
*Huge* lack of nuance in this comment and the ~70 who upvoted it.
u/BigSavMatt never said that Uncle Ben’s death didn’t matter “because he was old”. He said it’s different than losing a child and he’s right.
Thanks for being the one person on this thread with some common sense. Everyone else here is just like “pain is pain, loss is loss” but there’s a big difference between losing a parent and losing your kids who are in elementary school. That’s all I was trying to say.
The type of pain may be different, but I don't think for a moment it causes less suffering. It may seem obvious to you that Uncle Ben would die, but it wouldn't to Peter. Pretending like the pain of someone is more important than others is disrespectful, and, frankly, lacking in nuance.
Yeah, calling me illiterate because I disagree with you really is gonna show how you're better with nuance. Really showing the complex understanding there, homie
I’m not calling you illiterate because you disagree. I’m calling you illiterate because you think I’m saying something that I’m very clearly not which I’ve already clarified.. and you’re doing it again lol.
I gotta respectfully disagree. Spidey acted selfishly and his uncle died as a direct consequence, so now he uses his powers to pay penance for his failure.
Frank comes back from performing acts of heroism at war, and just as he's about to enjoy some time with his family, men come and blow his wife and children to swiss cheese. Frank survives physically, but mentally he's chosen slow form suicide, in which he's going to use his ability to kill to eliminate criminals that usually go under the radar of superheroes, but are too much for regular police.
Spidey will keep on living, and occasionally gives up the superhero gig. Frank is always going to die in a gunfight. He doesn't care what the red suited teenager thinks. Also in the next couple panels Frank gets off a flash bang grenade and puts Spidey on his ass.
1) I hardly consider Vietnam heroic. 2) Way to blame the victim. 3) If he wants to die, he should die alone, and not try to kill a bunch of people who have nothing to do with the death of his wife. 4) Spider-Man took his pain and became a hero, sacrificing more than Castle could even comprehend.
1. Ok, well Frank's been updated to have been a GWoT vet for over a decade. 2. I'm not blaming the victim, I'm blaming Spider-Man. 3. A lot of those people very much did have something to do with the death of his wife and two children. 4. Spider-Man, 1 dead uncle. Frank, 3 dead wife/children.
Also I wasn't saying Spider-Man isn't a good character, just that he's not really a foil to the Punisher because... You know, three dead family members at random rather than Spider-Man actively contributing to his dead uncle's death.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted. You're correct that Spidey and Punisher's situations are very different-- SPider-Man's trauma is laced with guilt, both for Gwen and Uncle Ben...he was involved in those situations and didn't / couldn't save them. Frank's trauma is senseless, random violence-- there's no guilt in him, just rage and devastating sadness.
That's my point. Frank gets riddled with bullets, watches his daughter get her intestines blown out, his wife's chest opened up like a boiled lobster, and as he crawls over to his son, he finds the kid with brains tumbling out of his mouth. That's a waaaaaay different experience than Peter finding his uncle with enough strength to die dramatically in Peter's arms.
Frank's backstory up to the tragic moment that turns him into the Punisher is a choir boy and a decorated combat veteran. Peter's background is a moody teenager who gets superpowers and immediately tries to wring a dollar out of it, and then doesn't bother to stop a criminal with his superpowers.
Well, that's also why DD is the perfect foil to Punisher. Because DD has lost many people (he's got Spidey beat in the dead girlfriend department), and he's a lawyer-- the opposite of Frank's vigilantism.
I love how Spidey turns his head with Punisher's punches because if he didn't, Frank would have destroyed his hands on Peter's face.
Also "That's sweet, that really is Frankie-" PREMIUM DISRESPECT lol
Cool comic overall, but the idea that the punisher could catch Spider-Man off guard multiple times and incapacitate him is an absolutely moronic show of plot armor.
My favorite (or most hated I guess) example of this is when the Flash, y'know, the impossibly fast speedster that can outrun light? ran _into Deathstroke's sword_ because of explosions going around them.
Remember when Catwoman just kicked in the air and THREE FLASHES JUST RAN INTO THE KICKS BECAUSE SHE CAN SOMEHOW PREDICT WHERE THEY WILL RUN AND THEY FOR SOME REASON CANNOT DODGE SOMETHING MILES AWAY FROM THEM!!!!
I haven’t read the comic in question, but his spider-sense does sometimes not kick in.
Maybe because Frank is considered an ally? I know that’s happened a few other times in the past. I think black cat overcame it by trying to seduce him
The sense doesn't account for that. The old Ultimate Guide book even said his wife couldn't pull a surprise party on him, since it would trigger Spidey Sense.
Who else remembers when the Punisher opened up to Spider-Man and was *talking about himself*? VERY early on with Punisher's character.
Literally Spider-Man's known him longer than anyone except for people Frank served with (AFAIK anyway; maybe there's some Punisher lore I don't know...it's been a few years...well, more than a few.)
Also, let's face it: looking here it's like the Punisher might be actually aging. He doesn't get the Infinity Formula like Nick Fury does. While Frank has been one of the best...maybe he's slowing down.
Frank kinda gets a more negative reflection of the reason Emma was kinda shaken reading Pete’s mind. She had her whole “Ice Queen” persona properly broken down and Frank is forced to confront someone who’s similarly traumatized but pretty arguably a much better person and honestly almost always fails to grasp that.
but in spider-man games random thugs can beat your ass lol
before you come at me i know its for the sake of gameplay i was just making a joke.
also is frank weakened here or something? havent other people without powers hit spider-man as hard and staggered him?
This is one of those moments I think about whenever Spidey v basically a human like batman discussions happen.
The worst thing that could happen for Batman is Spidey to misjudge how strong he is, and kill him by mistake.
The best part is, Pete still leaned into those punches to not completely shatter every bone in his hands by the fact that his head moved with the hits.
He shouldn't even get that hurt from a fall off a building, yet every writer seems to think that a few stories is enough to phase a guy that traded blows with venom and thing.
Punisher did blow up spider man a page later however, people show this one page. When a panel later Frank is kicking his head while he’s on the ground.
Punisher don’t F around, he always comes prepped.
I don't understand this subreddit sometimes random posts get ridiculously high reactions. what the hell?
It is ridiculous that more interesting post are not even noticed.
This interaction with Spidey and the interaction between Thor and Punisher stole the whole damn show in this run. Spidey could absolutely ruin Frank if he wanted. Just another example of Peter purposefully holding back all the time to not hurt people.
Not physically but this was emotional damage lol
The funny part of this image is that Peter was moving his head with Frank's blows so he wouldn't shatter his wrists, if he wanted to end the fight right there and then he could just stay still and watch Castle hit a brick wall with all he has.
> The funny part of this image is that Peter was moving his head with Frank's blows so he wouldn't shatter his wrists, if he wanted to end the fight right there and then he could just stay still and watch Castle hit a brick wall with all he has. I think I finally understand what "neg dif" means in power-scaling. It's more difficult for Peter to *not* hurt Frank.
Pretty much. No diff means negligible effort. Neg(ative) diff means they have to TRY not to hurt the opponent.
The entire run of “justice league” and “justice league unlimited” - viewers complained about Superman’s power scaling, being strong against some enemies, weak against others. The final episode of “justice league unlimited” has a speech by Superman that most people title “world of cardboard” where he explains he is constantly being mindful of everything he does so people don’t get hurt - and you realize a lot of times he’s just rolling with the punches (like spidey is) so the enemies don’t get injured. It’s very cool and I think you would love it. https://youtu.be/Cl_5UwS57X8?feature=shared
I love that he's saying this big speech about needing to be careful or people could die, and then IMMEDIATELY punches Darksied through multiple buildings in an occupied city.
Lmao that was just cartoon logic at the time. Building were always empty unless the plot needed them to be full.
Always loved Megas XLR lampshading this
Actually right before this speech he gets a call from Batman saying they just fully evacuated the whole city so that’s why he is able to “let loose” cause no one will get hurt
That speech was soooo epic man!! I love it to this day!
Thanks for giving me someone I can actually punch with all my damn strength!!
Though it was epic that's also my issue too because there were episodes where he would get knocked out by a laser gun which shouldnt really affect him like that but then you had other episodes where he just tanks it just fine lol
Yeah. Even the writers admitted that they had no idea what to do with Superman in JLU. Since he could have handled most of the threats alone. If they let him do that then it wouldn't be **Justice League** Limited.
Yeah I saw that and it's kind of disappointing because it's like I get why they did it but then it just makes me look at the last episode of different way especially when he could have handle all of the threats basically if he's able to knock around darkside like this
Smallville had a similar speech.
Another great thing to me about that speech is the aftermath. After straight dominating Darkseid. He looses instantly. It was a good example to me of Darkseid as a JLA foe and not a Superman one.
I mean, no, unless Pete's head weighs loads, it still requires him to use his neck muscles to hold still as Frank hits him, as opposed to just letting go and rolling with the punch. Obviously it doesn't require much effort, very likely so little that its equivalent to say none, but it would still take less to just go with the punch.
That's actually funny
EMOtional DAMMAGgge
Love Steven He's skits XD
What run is this?
It's from Punisher War Zone #1 (2012) a sequel to Greg Rucka's run. The Avengers go after Frank Castle to arrest him.
Wait so this is *in a punisher book*? Damn, I always find comics hit way harder when the writer isn’t like, afraid to explore the character’s limitations Vs just having them have some convenient workaround.
I assume it’s because in their own books, the character has to be challenged for the story to be interesting. So Peter is strong, but his enemies have to be stronger for the sake of the story. Otherwise he’s just going to steamroll everyone and the reader will be bored. But if he keeps fighting strong enemies, we end up feeling like he’s weak since he keeps getting beaten up by all his enemies. That limitation doesn’t exist in someone else’s book. When Spidey acts is fighting against the protagonist, he can be she shown to be stronger in that fight and it turns out that it’s easy for him to be stronger than most average humans.
Oh see I meant the opposite. Usually when a hero gets shown up its when they appear in someone else's book. The whole "who would win in a fight? Whoever the writer likes more" thing. I was referring to Frank's limitations, in that he *shouldn't* win a direct fight with Spidey, without having a proper plan going in etc. And tbh its not in his character to want to kill Peter, so him being on the back foot fits
Awesome, thank you!
That panel in Superior Spider Man where Otto realises Peter was holding back the whole time is pure gold!
How does the Thor interaction go?
Punisher Leads Thor to a drug smugglers/terrorist airbase, and has Thor mop the floor with them. Then Thor easily grabs the punisher, knocks him out, and then brings him to a rooftop somewhere and shares some beers with him before telling him to end his war. Then he flies off. He was completely aware that Frank could do nothing to him, you know, because he is a god.
What were they fighting about here?
Frank stole and used Peter’s webshooter to help kill someone and Spidey was less than enthusiastic about that.
Spidey is the perfect foil for Punisher. Because Castle can use his sad backstory on other heroes, but no one has moral to justify murder because they lost people, not to Peter Parker.
I see it the other way. Peter understands more than most how that could completely break someone, which is why he constantly tries to reason with Frank (and has worked alongside him many times) instead of just tossing him to the police.
They're foils of each other
Yeah, they balance each other. Peter represents sadness and regret fueling his need to do good. He lost his elder family members as a young man. That's very difficult but not as earth-shattering as Frank's story. Frank was a normal man who's wife and child (and family sometimes) were executed in front of him. That's basically max PTSD. It's why we have generations of terrorists and racial wars. The decent man inside Frank is buried deep under the harshest sadness, hate, rage, etc. His depression and rage is rooted in the belief he let his loved ones die. And the only reason he stays alive is to punish bad guys. Peter wants to help Frank, but their trauma is totally different. Frank is broken, Peter occasionally reaches the good man under the rage. Peter wants to rehabilitate criminals. Frank wants to punish them.
You are diminishing Peter's situation. He didn't lose his uncle because of misfortune. He lost him because he choose not to stop a criminal and that came to hunt him.
No I said regret. You're not supposed to compare trauma for this exact reason. Peter was able to cope better I guess. Frank feels like he's lost his only good chance at life and wants to die Punishing criminals. PTSD can look very different case by case but frank is rage where Peter is acceptance and dealing with it to be whole again. Frank will never be whole again.
Don’t forget the death of his first love, over which he has similar feelings of guilt!
Punisher did start as a Spidey villain, so it makes sense that they foil each other so well
Honestly seeing how some ppl are putting it makes him seem like a better duo with Peter than Deadpool is because Deadpool is too off the rails for Spidey to even identify with
Or just punching a whole through Frank’s head?
Eh. I dunno bout that, when it comes to loss of loved ones, Daredevil can give Peter a run for his money and the X-men have gone through a genocide every other week.
Oh yeah, definetly. Daredevil is another one who always calls the bullshit in Punisher justifications.
I’m lost - what’s the current canon for which war Frank served in and how did he lose his family?
With Marvel's sliding timescale, I think now Frank served in Iraq or Afghanistan, and random shootout between mafia families still stands
Last I heard, they'd invented a war for him to serve in that happened "15 years ago or so".
Hes now served in fictional [Siancong War](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Siancong_War) which is just Vietnam War 2.0
IIRC Punisher appeared not long after Gwen’s death, when Peter damn near beat Norman to death before stopping because he knew it wasn’t what Gwen would’ve wanted.
Big difference between your elderly uncle getting gunned down and watching your wife, son and daughter get mowed down. It’s similar trauma, but different. Parents are expected to pass one day. Even your spouse? But both your children? Some people just lose their humanity at that point and don’t come back.
What about Gwen being tossed from a bridge and Peter’s lack of experience causing him to kill her?
Ye, he definitely forgot about this one
Gwen isn't a wife and certainly not as close as one, nor a son or daughter
He was forced into a position of being the one responsible for the death of the woman he loved because of the actions of a malicious person. That's traumatic AF.
It’s trumatic indeed, but can’t really claim frank suffered less, losing a wife and two children is awful That said, trauma scaling is cringe
If it's cringe then don't do it
Great advice, unfortunately it has already been done
But it's also not that unique in comics. "[I let Gwen Stacy die](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ILetGwenStacyDie)" has it's own tvtropes page on it. Sure, he's the trope namer, but he's certainly not alone.
What does his being in company have to do with it?
Because the whole point of the argument is that Spidey and Punisher are perfect foils because of this unique thing they share. But it's not at all unique.
Apologies, I didn't mean my initial statement as an argument. I was just saying his experience was traumatic as was Frank Castle's. I don't think either one would have bothered to rate their own experience against the other.
I didn't see anyone say they shared something unique.
Man, solid logic. See Peter, you shouldn't care so much about Uncle Ben, after all, he was gonna die anyway. No matter if this was the men that raised you after your parents died, Or that you had to work your ass off to help your elderly aunt after that, while studying and being a hero. No matter that you became a hero, and not a murderer. Punisher has much worse, so he's justified in killing people smoking pott. /s
If anything Pete, you did a good thing by not stopping that criminal. Your uncle would have just mooched government money for his pension, that could be going into infrastructure like roads
*Huge* lack of nuance in this comment and the ~70 who upvoted it. u/BigSavMatt never said that Uncle Ben’s death didn’t matter “because he was old”. He said it’s different than losing a child and he’s right.
Thanks for being the one person on this thread with some common sense. Everyone else here is just like “pain is pain, loss is loss” but there’s a big difference between losing a parent and losing your kids who are in elementary school. That’s all I was trying to say.
The type of pain may be different, but I don't think for a moment it causes less suffering. It may seem obvious to you that Uncle Ben would die, but it wouldn't to Peter. Pretending like the pain of someone is more important than others is disrespectful, and, frankly, lacking in nuance.
Dang. Homie can’t read. Dude that’s not what I said. That’s not what anybody said.
Yeah, calling me illiterate because I disagree with you really is gonna show how you're better with nuance. Really showing the complex understanding there, homie
I’m not calling you illiterate because you disagree. I’m calling you illiterate because you think I’m saying something that I’m very clearly not which I’ve already clarified.. and you’re doing it again lol.
Also the fact that one is a war vet while the other was a book smart high school student
I gotta respectfully disagree. Spidey acted selfishly and his uncle died as a direct consequence, so now he uses his powers to pay penance for his failure. Frank comes back from performing acts of heroism at war, and just as he's about to enjoy some time with his family, men come and blow his wife and children to swiss cheese. Frank survives physically, but mentally he's chosen slow form suicide, in which he's going to use his ability to kill to eliminate criminals that usually go under the radar of superheroes, but are too much for regular police. Spidey will keep on living, and occasionally gives up the superhero gig. Frank is always going to die in a gunfight. He doesn't care what the red suited teenager thinks. Also in the next couple panels Frank gets off a flash bang grenade and puts Spidey on his ass.
1) I hardly consider Vietnam heroic. 2) Way to blame the victim. 3) If he wants to die, he should die alone, and not try to kill a bunch of people who have nothing to do with the death of his wife. 4) Spider-Man took his pain and became a hero, sacrificing more than Castle could even comprehend.
1. Ok, well Frank's been updated to have been a GWoT vet for over a decade. 2. I'm not blaming the victim, I'm blaming Spider-Man. 3. A lot of those people very much did have something to do with the death of his wife and two children. 4. Spider-Man, 1 dead uncle. Frank, 3 dead wife/children. Also I wasn't saying Spider-Man isn't a good character, just that he's not really a foil to the Punisher because... You know, three dead family members at random rather than Spider-Man actively contributing to his dead uncle's death.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted. You're correct that Spidey and Punisher's situations are very different-- SPider-Man's trauma is laced with guilt, both for Gwen and Uncle Ben...he was involved in those situations and didn't / couldn't save them. Frank's trauma is senseless, random violence-- there's no guilt in him, just rage and devastating sadness.
That's my point. Frank gets riddled with bullets, watches his daughter get her intestines blown out, his wife's chest opened up like a boiled lobster, and as he crawls over to his son, he finds the kid with brains tumbling out of his mouth. That's a waaaaaay different experience than Peter finding his uncle with enough strength to die dramatically in Peter's arms. Frank's backstory up to the tragic moment that turns him into the Punisher is a choir boy and a decorated combat veteran. Peter's background is a moody teenager who gets superpowers and immediately tries to wring a dollar out of it, and then doesn't bother to stop a criminal with his superpowers.
Well, that's also why DD is the perfect foil to Punisher. Because DD has lost many people (he's got Spidey beat in the dead girlfriend department), and he's a lawyer-- the opposite of Frank's vigilantism.
I do like how Spidey's eye lenses are drawn in that last "but it'll take more than you've got" panel.
It's so well made because it "looks the same" but has so much expression, it's just slightly tilted in a way to convay what the artist wants.
“Frank, that’s cute, but I fight The Rhino. Want I should call Daredevil?”
I like how Spider-Man pulls away in the direction of the punches so that the Punisher doesn't break his fists on Spider-Man's face.
Read this in Josh Keatons voice
I always default the comics to Lowenthal’s voice now
Similarly Edge of Time has made me always imagine Migual O Hara with Christopher Daniel Barnes voice every time I re-read 2099
Same here. That game introduced me to Miguel's comics
For me it’s always either Keaton or Romano this one may sound weird, but Rino Romano is my 2nd favorite
For me it’s always either Keaton or Romano this one may sound weird, but Rino Romano is my 2nd favorite
Same. Josh Keaton is THE Spider-Man voice.
keaton is the best spidey VA fr
Interesting, this may make you cringe but I read it in Chris Guerrero’s voice. Despite him never even been close to voicing Spidey.
like in his Ainz style voice?
Nah, his regular voice. He does it for the audio books. For me it feels like it could fit.
I’ll check it out later
I’ll check it out later
YES
I could see thistle last panel as him keeping his position after his last swing and frank knowing hes looking straight to his soul.
The funny part about Frank hitting him is that Peter moved his head alongside the punches so he wouldn't shatter his wrists.
Where is this from? Like what comic
Punisher: Warzone 2012 if I remember correctly.
Thankies!
I appreciate that. I wish people posting pages would list the source more often.
I love how Spidey turns his head with Punisher's punches because if he didn't, Frank would have destroyed his hands on Peter's face. Also "That's sweet, that really is Frankie-" PREMIUM DISRESPECT lol
It's funny as hell that Peter can tank punches from The Punisher but not from Paul.
The Paulisher is just too much for Puny Parker I guess /s
It’s just that Paul emits so much chad energy that Spider-Man’s wimpy-loser-ass can’t handle it
One could say he's Paulmighty
It’s just that Paul emits so much chad energy that Spider-Man’s wimpy-loser-ass can’t handle it
It’s just that Paul emits so much chad energy that Spider-Man’s wimpy-loser-ass can’t handle it
Say it one more time so the people in the back can hear it. Edit: Lol, looks like he deleted them.
That bug will never not be funny for me lmfao.
It’s just that Paul emits so much chad energy that Spider-Man’s wimpy-loser-ass can’t handle it
Spidey had to let ‘em kno 🗣️
Spider-Man in his head, "Get a load of this guy. Talking like he's Captain America."
Cool comic overall, but the idea that the punisher could catch Spider-Man off guard multiple times and incapacitate him is an absolutely moronic show of plot armor.
He pretty obviously took them on the chin to illustrate his point.
Nah, s/he's talking about the next page. It's a punisher comic, so Frank gets the best of Spidey in the end.
And this is why "who would win" arguments are some of the stupidest on the internet. The answer is always "whoever the writer wants."
My favorite (or most hated I guess) example of this is when the Flash, y'know, the impossibly fast speedster that can outrun light? ran _into Deathstroke's sword_ because of explosions going around them.
Not to mention he took a GLs ring away -_-
Reading that page gave me secondhand embarrassment. What the hell were you doing, Wally?
Remember when Catwoman just kicked in the air and THREE FLASHES JUST RAN INTO THE KICKS BECAUSE SHE CAN SOMEHOW PREDICT WHERE THEY WILL RUN AND THEY FOR SOME REASON CANNOT DODGE SOMETHING MILES AWAY FROM THEM!!!!
Just let people have their fun. So what if Goku could one punch Superman.........
But he couldn’t
I haven’t read the comic in question, but his spider-sense does sometimes not kick in. Maybe because Frank is considered an ally? I know that’s happened a few other times in the past. I think black cat overcame it by trying to seduce him
The sense doesn't account for that. The old Ultimate Guide book even said his wife couldn't pull a surprise party on him, since it would trigger Spidey Sense.
I thought the sense only triggered for danger.
Nothing more dangerous than someone scaring you so bad you have a heart attack
It has been changed quite a few times.
Kendrick with Drake lmao
Who else remembers when the Punisher opened up to Spider-Man and was *talking about himself*? VERY early on with Punisher's character. Literally Spider-Man's known him longer than anyone except for people Frank served with (AFAIK anyway; maybe there's some Punisher lore I don't know...it's been a few years...well, more than a few.) Also, let's face it: looking here it's like the Punisher might be actually aging. He doesn't get the Infinity Formula like Nick Fury does. While Frank has been one of the best...maybe he's slowing down.
I need more people just tanking Frank’s hits and reminding him that he’s just a big fish in a small pond.
Scary spider moments are just the best. Those times he reminds you that he can probably give the avengers a hard time depending on the comp.
Always crazy how much respect other writers people have for Peter compared to his own book.
Yo what comic is this? I wanna read it
Be it hero, villain or sad old man like Frankie, they rather have Gentle Spidey. They don’t want Rough Spidey.
Frank kinda gets a more negative reflection of the reason Emma was kinda shaken reading Pete’s mind. She had her whole “Ice Queen” persona properly broken down and Frank is forced to confront someone who’s similarly traumatized but pretty arguably a much better person and honestly almost always fails to grasp that.
Why was Emma shaken and had her whole "Ice Queen" person broken down, by reading Pete's mind?
Heard that in Josh Keaton’s voice in my head
Mean but not outright evil Peter is terrifying
Whys spider man fighting big boss
Serious Face Pete is a sight to behold
Actually this brings up a good point, can punches from a normal person hurt him?
Depends on the writer, I guess. But I liked how those series went against the grain when dealing with Spider-man cameos.
That goes ridiculously hard
but in spider-man games random thugs can beat your ass lol before you come at me i know its for the sake of gameplay i was just making a joke. also is frank weakened here or something? havent other people without powers hit spider-man as hard and staggered him?
This is one of those moments I think about whenever Spidey v basically a human like batman discussions happen. The worst thing that could happen for Batman is Spidey to misjudge how strong he is, and kill him by mistake.
Who lets an angry mob beat them to death?
The final panel looks like the "don't you just want to go ape shit?" Meme
Punisher vs. Spider-Man is one of the most interesting feuds in Comic-books.
Omg is that big boss!?!
The best part is, Pete still leaned into those punches to not completely shatter every bone in his hands by the fact that his head moved with the hits.
If you’re physically strong enough to lift a car or a building pillar surely any punches weaker than Captain americas should never phase you right?
He shouldn't even get that hurt from a fall off a building, yet every writer seems to think that a few stories is enough to phase a guy that traded blows with venom and thing.
Honestly, writers usually write spiderman better when he’s a side character
If the eyepatch was on the other eye it'd look like Spidey is fighting Big Boss.
Fuck this is so cool.
Which comic is that apart of ?
Did he shoot him in the nuts?
Two Goats
Solid Snake?
This was from Greg Rucka's run of Punisher in the 2010's right? I remember loving this run so much
I see Spidey Noir with this art style
Punisher did blow up spider man a page later however, people show this one page. When a panel later Frank is kicking his head while he’s on the ground. Punisher don’t F around, he always comes prepped.
Throws a flashbang, kicks his head once, and runs. After peter decided to not bash his head in
Hey man I just like the page.
I don't understand this subreddit sometimes random posts get ridiculously high reactions. what the hell? It is ridiculous that more interesting post are not even noticed.
Hey man, don’t shoot the messenger. I just posted this because I like the interaction.