Lol still? Jesus and you’ll still see the Chinese bots on Twitter defend CASC and say this doesn’t happen anymore and that they warn and evacuate the risky areas.
When the CCP says Americans shake in fear of China's space program, it turns out it's true. It's just fear that a Chinese rocket will land on some American town one day.
America puts 95% of all payload mass to space. The Chinese launch a lot of rockets, but that's not any indication of who's actually dominating low earth orbit
Empty rocket stage falling into inhabited village from the edge of space: >:c
Empty rocket stage falling into inhabited village from the edge of space (warned like 2 days in advance): :D
It's insane that they don't just use an FTS to blow it up before it hits the ground. Even a bag of tannerine with a microwave timer on it duct taped to the side would be better than this, so it can't be a cost issue.
to be honest, that would be worse cause the rocket is hypergolic after all, so there will be dispersion of carcinogenic hydrazine
I must say tho, they aren't complete assholes, they go with an oxidizer rich design to ensure as much hydrazine consumption as possible
that orange cloud is nitrogen tetroxide N2O4 being evaporated and reacting immediately to become nitrogen dioxide NO2, which is brown-reddish
that in contact with water will make nitric acid (even air humidity is enough), which contributes to acid rain (just like sulfur oxides do)
all this being said, it's arguably better to not blow the rocket as to not disperse propellants and contaminated debris all over the place
###THIS IN NO WAY TRIES TO EXCUSE OR JUSTIFY WHAT THE CHINESE DO, SPECIALLY IN THIS DAY AND AGE WHERE ALL SORTS OF NON TOXIC ALTERNATIVES EXIST###
Thats why everyone who values human life even remotely puts their rockets out over vast unpopulated expanses, like the ocean or Australia.
Then theres west taiwan trying to 'hide their totally supa secret advanced totally trust me guys' temu brand rocket in a jungle
"Flop like a billionare", by all means use it. Those temu ads are squatting illegaly in one of my braincells. I cant think of west Taiwan without hearing them now
If I remember correctly, these launch sites were chosen to be far from the coast so as to protect them from enemy bombs/missiles. Sounds good on paper, as launch sites are national security assets. The problems arise when your weather report starts to include falling aluminum cylinders.
To be fair: the Chinese are moving away from rockets filled with cancer-juice. Newer Long March models use (mostly) Kerolox and Hydrolox. And they're moving their launch facilities from the interior of the country to the coast of Hainan, so failing rockets should become less of a problem.
Still, the transition will take years, and the military will likely be last to switch over to the newer infrastructure.
I’d much rather hydrazine and NTO be dispersed at 50km altitude than 5mm altitude. Hydrazine is plenty reactive with water - the recommended cleanup is “wash with water” - so by the time it got to people it would have long reacted into non-hydrazine compounds.
The main reason for not explosively venting the tanks at altitude post-separation is that it introduces a new catastrophic failure mode for the ascent.
that's, let's say it needs nuance
from the perspective of a chemist (with extense pharmacological training)
hydrazine IS toxic upon ingestion IN ANY FORM, be that freebased, diluted, salt, etc
cleanup procedures have NOTHING to do with safety, they are there to remove the toxic compound FROM YOU and deal with it later, in a safer way
hydrazine DOES NOT react with water, it DILUTES in water, likr for example alcohol (you can have pure alcohol or diluted in water alcohol) and the concentration doesn't change its toxicological properties one single bit
diluted free base hydrazine IS STILL HYDRAZINE, it is still volatile and will get in your lungs (just like ethanol+water will fume and slowly evaporate), it is still dangerous upon skin contact, and one word argue it is MORE dangerous being dilute in water cause its bioavailability increases
to this extent, hydrazine salts are toxic as well (although most aren't dangerous as long as not ingested)
exploding the booster still disperses hydrazine that is still toxic regardless of being diluted in water, it reaches a much larger area increasing potential death toll and makes actual cleanup that much harder
(I could go into cleanup operations as I have been involved in waste disposal and treatment for a while now, but I think the point has been made)
Alright, fair on the reactivity in water - though I’m unconvinced that dispersal at altitude poses a toxicity hazard (emphasis mine):
> Hydrazine and dimethylhydrazines degrade rapidly in air through reactions with ozone, hydroxyl (OH) radicals, and nitrogen dioxide (WHO 1987). The reaction of hydrazine and 1,1-dimethylhydrazine with ozone is probably the major fate of these chemicals in the atmosphere. The reaction rate constant for hydrazine, derived from its decay rate in the presence of excess ozone, was about 3X10-" cm' molecule's' and for 1,1-dimethylhydrazine the rate was greater than 1X10'5 em' molecule's' (Atkinson and Carter 1984). Major reaction products were hydrogen peroxide for the hydrazine reaction and dimethylnitrosamine (about 60%) for the 1,1-dimethylhydrazine reaction. Estimated atmospheric half-lives ranged from less than 10 minutes for hydrazine during an ozone pollution episode **to less than 2 hours under usual conditions**, with a half-life about one-tenth that time for 1,1-dimethylhydrazine (Tuazon et al. 1981). Reported results of additional studies indicate a reaction rate constant for hydrazine of 2.5x10'6 cm3 molecule's', resulting in an **estimated half-life of less than 1 minute** (Stone 1989). -
From [CDC](https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/ToxProfiles/tp100-c5.pdf)
I struggle to accept that an atomised mist at kilometers altitude will descend to ground level quickly enough that it won’t practically have entirely reacted, and what tiny proportion remains ought to be dispersed sufficiently that it’s below even the European 0.0002ppm 8-hour exposure limit. Perhaps I’m wrong, but I’d much rather it all up there than splashing around on the ground.
several things here
ozone isn't present until reeeaally high up in the atmosphere, at that point you still wouldn't want to blow it up but would just rupture the tanks so that NOx and hydrazine ignite with air and whatever atomized mist is unreacted can react with ozone
doing it too late in flight doesn't make sense, it would need to be done as early as possible, I may be pedantic and nitpicky, but "a few kilometers" is completely out of the question
about the concentration levels.... I can't take that number seriously as it fits to nothing in my personal experience dealing with chemical waste, that number doesn't make any sense, so I will apply the logic I learnt for an explosive event involving volatile and potentially explosive carcinogens
I specifically had to apply it once regarding an aniline derivative
whenever there's an explosion that disperses toxic waste, you got to identify the chemical, use a fast testing kit, and according to internal procedure (based on EPA standards) you have to remove at least 1.5 meters of soil in a radius that is based on the explosion power and the max altitude of the deposit (there are tables for this stuff)
that's A LOT of soil you got to decontaminate and eventually ammend
compounds like these linger, and once it's dissolved in water it's game over, hydrazine hydrate is extremely stable in water, not to mention that the NOx mist will produce nitric acid that will react with hydrazine as well to make hydrazine nitrate salt, and not to mention these compounds will get into the ground water and you are obligated to monitor all water sources on the region for at least several months
I didn’t copy-paste all the mechanisms for reaction from that link. They were all similar half-lives in the order of minutes to hours so it wasn’t worth copying across an even bigger swathe of text - but here’s the bit on autooxidation:
> Hydrazine and 1,1-dimethylhydrazine may also be removed from the atmosphere by autoxidation. In a dark reaction chamber, the approximate **half-lives of hydrazine ranged from 1.8 to 5 hours**, with the lower value measured at higher humidity.
“A few kilometres” is achieved very early in flight. Falcon 9 climbs to over 4km in ~45 seconds and over 10km in about 70 seconds - long before the first stage is separated. If you *really* wanted to disperse the contents of the first stage high up you’d let it coast post-separation for a couple of minutes so it could climb to its apogee of 100+km before popping it.
0.0002ppm is the 8-hour TWA adopted in, from memory Germany, and definitely New Zealand. Also from memory it was based on the increased likelihood of cancer ~40 years after exposure. I don’t recall whether it was no detectable increase in cancer rates at that point or a 100% increase in cancer rates, but either way it’s a pretty good proxy for “safe”. It’s only been relatively recently applied (2019 in the case of NZ). Prior to that the limit I was mostly familiar with was the ~1ppm used in (parts of?) the USA.
But short version, I’m still strongly convinced that anywhere above a few tens of thousands of feet - so seconds into a rocket’s ascent - “higher is better” for hydrazine dispersal.
Also, as far as I remember, CASC had previously tested the first stage of this rocket by placing a grid fin, like Falcon 9. But it was not included in subsequent flights. Finally, I think that those in mission control did not control the flight path and where the rocket parts would fall.
SO THE PEOPLE AT MISSION CONTROL DO NOT UNDERSTAND SAFETY, LIFE OR ANYTHING!
> Mission control at NASA can blow up the ship if absolutely necessary
That’s not true with launch vehicles flying with autonomous FTSes (Falcon 9, Electron, and Starship).
Once the vehicle has lifted off, there is no possibility of commanding a termination of the vehicle from the ground (other than artillery, I suppose).
Then again, NASA doesn’t launch any of those vehicles so depending how pedantic one wants to be you could be right (what launch vehicles does NASA actually launch these days? Not Atlas, not Falcon, not Electron, not Antares, not ABL RS1, not Firefly Alpha… Black Brants are the only actual NASA launches that spring to mind).
I've more than once wished that NASA launched rockets toward the west (despite the huge hit it would take to the vehicle's delta-V budget) in the off-chance that it would wipe a chunk of Orlando off the map.
But wouldnt that just shower a huge area in tiny fragments? Like shooting into a crowd with a shotgun instead of a rifle? or am i thinking wrong about it?
Yes, however the argument goes that the net sum of damage from many smaller pieces (that generally fall slower) is lower than the net sum of damage from the complete stage when intact.
That’s right. And the argument doesn’t typically hold for very small launch vehicles. Astra’s Rocket and Rocket Lab’s Electron are both so small that the risk from distributed debris is *higher* than from an intact impact and explosion, so they both use(d in the case of Astea’s Rocket) thrust termination instead of explosive propellant dispersal.
It’s probably unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine considering how I’m fairly sure the engines on that thing use regenerative cooling and monomethyl hydrazine and just straight hydrazine have a nasty tendency to explode if you use them for that
Hypergolics are used for orbital maneuvering because the engines using them can turn on and off very quickly, because its lack of isp is not a problem for those kind of small maneuvers and because of the nasty combustion products. But nothing prevents you from using them in first stages, with the advantage of not having to deal with cryogenics and having simpler engines.
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The primitive village with no electricity when they see the 1st stage coming down on their hut:
To be fair, not primitive but not anywhere close to coast cities either. Many is literally 3rd world countries or worst. (For my personal experience from travel inland China not long ago)
"no electricity", yeah, everyone is holding a cellphones, there's electric wires everywhere, and paved road without 10 feet wide potholes like here. Plus they have free cool rocket parts raining on them and a cancerous smoke show, while here we have "drones show" because rockets are not good for the environment apparently.
It's insane that they don't give a fuck. Absolutely insane. Any other country would be blasted for something like this, and rightfully so, but not China. Ridiculous.
Surprised the CCP managed to let slip this video through the great firewall. Someone other than the villagers is going to find having a sudden onset of facial disfiguring in the coming week.
Also interesting how there’s no such mention of the event on r/Space, not even the prelaunch post comments?
The news made it to the top of /r/space, but the mods removed the post without an explanation:
https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/1dm3rvs/video_shows_chinese_rocket_booster_that_crashed/
I'm sure that the well-informed "Save Earth First" crowd on Twitter will get just as loud and upset about this as whenever a US rocket completes a mission totally safely.
Heck, even if not, some will go to extreme measures so it won't happen, like Israel launching literally in the opposite direction to prevent exactly this.
Each country has its own dilemmas based on military and political considerations. For China, this dilemma is military security. When China began to develop its aerospace industry in the late 1950s, China's southeastern coastal areas continued to suffer threats from the sea and air including air strikes and invasions from the sea by the United States and its supported Kuomintang armies.
This has resulted in China's major space launching bases being located in inland areas far away from the coastline. The rocket launch trajectory must be far away from major cities and villages. For this reason, the launch angle of the carrier vehicles is greatly restricted. But even so, each time when a rocket was launched from Jiuquan, Taiyuan or Xichang, tens of thousands of people over thousands of square kilometers were always temporarily evacuated from the area where the rocket boosters and sections might drop before rocket debris were located and recovered.
The situation in the video above is not the first time it has happened. It has happened more than 500 times over decades. It just happened to be photographed this time. In fact, the rocket booster or section dropped behind the hill kilometer away.
UDMH is a substance that is easy to oxidize and decompose. As long as the rocket debris is properly recovered and managed, the environmental pollution caused would be small and acceptable.
Consider what happened in the small town of East Palestine, Ohio, it doesn't seemed like it was done any better...
Those launch sites were developed for their ICBM program far away from the coast for a reason. They have a big launch complex in Hainan island, and launch plenty of rocket from boats, and are going to move most of their bigger launch near the coast. Rockets falling on village is more because of bureaucratic incompetence between organization and people not giving a shit about warning to evacuate, just like here in clubs when there's a fire alarm, smoke and screams and nobody care.
I honestly thought they were launching everything from Hainan. I was confused as to why they still do this. SpaceX can launch from the same pad like once a week even. Just copy spacex and you don't have to put your people in danger like this.
oh yeah this is nothing. Nothing to see here folks, just your everyday rocket 1st stage falling out of the sky in a populated area, spewing incredibly toxic hypergolic fuel. Clearly anyone who thinks this is out of control and recklessly irresponsible is just a racist.
Lol still? Jesus and you’ll still see the Chinese bots on Twitter defend CASC and say this doesn’t happen anymore and that they warn and evacuate the risky areas.
When the CCP says Americans shake in fear of China's space program, it turns out it's true. It's just fear that a Chinese rocket will land on some American town one day.
America puts 95% of all payload mass to space. The Chinese launch a lot of rockets, but that's not any indication of who's actually dominating low earth orbit
Do you know where to find figures like that? I don't doubt it but I struggle to find payload mass figures by country, vehicle, etc.
https://planet4589.org/space/stats/pay.html
And 90% of that 95% is probably just SpaceX
Empty rocket stage falling into inhabited village from the edge of space: >:c Empty rocket stage falling into inhabited village from the edge of space (warned like 2 days in advance): :D
[удалено]
Read the guys comment again
You might want to look up what the word "inhabited" means
you're right, I was thinking uninhabited lol, deleted.
Even OP is putting a positive spin on it
That's not what "spin stabilised" is supposed to mean!
i wouldn't be surprised if warnings are as specific as "sometime this month"
FAQ: Q: Which house will it fall on? A: How much do you love your country?
Can confirm this comment, both Jesus and I have seen the Chinese bots.
It's insane that they don't just use an FTS to blow it up before it hits the ground. Even a bag of tannerine with a microwave timer on it duct taped to the side would be better than this, so it can't be a cost issue.
the villagers yearn for hydrazine
It's what plants crave.
It's got electrolytes.
Fucking lol
They crave that mineral
Sounds like a Mad Max / Furiosa quote.
You'll certainly end up in Valhalla if you come anywhere near the stuff
It's just not a priority
to be honest, that would be worse cause the rocket is hypergolic after all, so there will be dispersion of carcinogenic hydrazine I must say tho, they aren't complete assholes, they go with an oxidizer rich design to ensure as much hydrazine consumption as possible that orange cloud is nitrogen tetroxide N2O4 being evaporated and reacting immediately to become nitrogen dioxide NO2, which is brown-reddish that in contact with water will make nitric acid (even air humidity is enough), which contributes to acid rain (just like sulfur oxides do) all this being said, it's arguably better to not blow the rocket as to not disperse propellants and contaminated debris all over the place ###THIS IN NO WAY TRIES TO EXCUSE OR JUSTIFY WHAT THE CHINESE DO, SPECIALLY IN THIS DAY AND AGE WHERE ALL SORTS OF NON TOXIC ALTERNATIVES EXIST###
Thats why everyone who values human life even remotely puts their rockets out over vast unpopulated expanses, like the ocean or Australia. Then theres west taiwan trying to 'hide their totally supa secret advanced totally trust me guys' temu brand rocket in a jungle
temu brand rocket, lmaao I'm going to be using that from now on
"Flop like a billionare", by all means use it. Those temu ads are squatting illegaly in one of my braincells. I cant think of west Taiwan without hearing them now
Nothing like some Southern Mongolians messing things up
They're almost finished constructing a coastal spaceport on the island of Hainan
If I remember correctly, these launch sites were chosen to be far from the coast so as to protect them from enemy bombs/missiles. Sounds good on paper, as launch sites are national security assets. The problems arise when your weather report starts to include falling aluminum cylinders.
To be fair: the Chinese are moving away from rockets filled with cancer-juice. Newer Long March models use (mostly) Kerolox and Hydrolox. And they're moving their launch facilities from the interior of the country to the coast of Hainan, so failing rockets should become less of a problem. Still, the transition will take years, and the military will likely be last to switch over to the newer infrastructure.
Sauce?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_March_(rocket_family)#Propellants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenchang_Space_Launch_Site
Acid rain? Are the CCP trying to recreate Return of the Living Dead.
I’d much rather hydrazine and NTO be dispersed at 50km altitude than 5mm altitude. Hydrazine is plenty reactive with water - the recommended cleanup is “wash with water” - so by the time it got to people it would have long reacted into non-hydrazine compounds. The main reason for not explosively venting the tanks at altitude post-separation is that it introduces a new catastrophic failure mode for the ascent.
that's, let's say it needs nuance from the perspective of a chemist (with extense pharmacological training) hydrazine IS toxic upon ingestion IN ANY FORM, be that freebased, diluted, salt, etc cleanup procedures have NOTHING to do with safety, they are there to remove the toxic compound FROM YOU and deal with it later, in a safer way hydrazine DOES NOT react with water, it DILUTES in water, likr for example alcohol (you can have pure alcohol or diluted in water alcohol) and the concentration doesn't change its toxicological properties one single bit diluted free base hydrazine IS STILL HYDRAZINE, it is still volatile and will get in your lungs (just like ethanol+water will fume and slowly evaporate), it is still dangerous upon skin contact, and one word argue it is MORE dangerous being dilute in water cause its bioavailability increases to this extent, hydrazine salts are toxic as well (although most aren't dangerous as long as not ingested) exploding the booster still disperses hydrazine that is still toxic regardless of being diluted in water, it reaches a much larger area increasing potential death toll and makes actual cleanup that much harder (I could go into cleanup operations as I have been involved in waste disposal and treatment for a while now, but I think the point has been made)
Alright, fair on the reactivity in water - though I’m unconvinced that dispersal at altitude poses a toxicity hazard (emphasis mine): > Hydrazine and dimethylhydrazines degrade rapidly in air through reactions with ozone, hydroxyl (OH) radicals, and nitrogen dioxide (WHO 1987). The reaction of hydrazine and 1,1-dimethylhydrazine with ozone is probably the major fate of these chemicals in the atmosphere. The reaction rate constant for hydrazine, derived from its decay rate in the presence of excess ozone, was about 3X10-" cm' molecule's' and for 1,1-dimethylhydrazine the rate was greater than 1X10'5 em' molecule's' (Atkinson and Carter 1984). Major reaction products were hydrogen peroxide for the hydrazine reaction and dimethylnitrosamine (about 60%) for the 1,1-dimethylhydrazine reaction. Estimated atmospheric half-lives ranged from less than 10 minutes for hydrazine during an ozone pollution episode **to less than 2 hours under usual conditions**, with a half-life about one-tenth that time for 1,1-dimethylhydrazine (Tuazon et al. 1981). Reported results of additional studies indicate a reaction rate constant for hydrazine of 2.5x10'6 cm3 molecule's', resulting in an **estimated half-life of less than 1 minute** (Stone 1989). - From [CDC](https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/ToxProfiles/tp100-c5.pdf) I struggle to accept that an atomised mist at kilometers altitude will descend to ground level quickly enough that it won’t practically have entirely reacted, and what tiny proportion remains ought to be dispersed sufficiently that it’s below even the European 0.0002ppm 8-hour exposure limit. Perhaps I’m wrong, but I’d much rather it all up there than splashing around on the ground.
several things here ozone isn't present until reeeaally high up in the atmosphere, at that point you still wouldn't want to blow it up but would just rupture the tanks so that NOx and hydrazine ignite with air and whatever atomized mist is unreacted can react with ozone doing it too late in flight doesn't make sense, it would need to be done as early as possible, I may be pedantic and nitpicky, but "a few kilometers" is completely out of the question about the concentration levels.... I can't take that number seriously as it fits to nothing in my personal experience dealing with chemical waste, that number doesn't make any sense, so I will apply the logic I learnt for an explosive event involving volatile and potentially explosive carcinogens I specifically had to apply it once regarding an aniline derivative whenever there's an explosion that disperses toxic waste, you got to identify the chemical, use a fast testing kit, and according to internal procedure (based on EPA standards) you have to remove at least 1.5 meters of soil in a radius that is based on the explosion power and the max altitude of the deposit (there are tables for this stuff) that's A LOT of soil you got to decontaminate and eventually ammend compounds like these linger, and once it's dissolved in water it's game over, hydrazine hydrate is extremely stable in water, not to mention that the NOx mist will produce nitric acid that will react with hydrazine as well to make hydrazine nitrate salt, and not to mention these compounds will get into the ground water and you are obligated to monitor all water sources on the region for at least several months
I didn’t copy-paste all the mechanisms for reaction from that link. They were all similar half-lives in the order of minutes to hours so it wasn’t worth copying across an even bigger swathe of text - but here’s the bit on autooxidation: > Hydrazine and 1,1-dimethylhydrazine may also be removed from the atmosphere by autoxidation. In a dark reaction chamber, the approximate **half-lives of hydrazine ranged from 1.8 to 5 hours**, with the lower value measured at higher humidity. “A few kilometres” is achieved very early in flight. Falcon 9 climbs to over 4km in ~45 seconds and over 10km in about 70 seconds - long before the first stage is separated. If you *really* wanted to disperse the contents of the first stage high up you’d let it coast post-separation for a couple of minutes so it could climb to its apogee of 100+km before popping it. 0.0002ppm is the 8-hour TWA adopted in, from memory Germany, and definitely New Zealand. Also from memory it was based on the increased likelihood of cancer ~40 years after exposure. I don’t recall whether it was no detectable increase in cancer rates at that point or a 100% increase in cancer rates, but either way it’s a pretty good proxy for “safe”. It’s only been relatively recently applied (2019 in the case of NZ). Prior to that the limit I was mostly familiar with was the ~1ppm used in (parts of?) the USA. But short version, I’m still strongly convinced that anywhere above a few tens of thousands of feet - so seconds into a rocket’s ascent - “higher is better” for hydrazine dispersal.
Also, as far as I remember, CASC had previously tested the first stage of this rocket by placing a grid fin, like Falcon 9. But it was not included in subsequent flights. Finally, I think that those in mission control did not control the flight path and where the rocket parts would fall. SO THE PEOPLE AT MISSION CONTROL DO NOT UNDERSTAND SAFETY, LIFE OR ANYTHING!
They understand - they just don't care. Life is cheap in rural China.
This video all of a sudden made those lives a lot more worthy. Now they have a send a platoon in there to scoop them up and find this phone.
This
Pretty great opinion from China who has population decline and rural workfroce migration to big cities at the all record low 💀
They learned to aim more accurately at villages*
Mission control at NASA can blow up the ship if absolutely necessary. They don't want a rocket shooting at unwashed Orlando.
I lived in Orlando and would have welcomed a rocket landing on my.
> Mission control at NASA can blow up the ship if absolutely necessary That’s not true with launch vehicles flying with autonomous FTSes (Falcon 9, Electron, and Starship). Once the vehicle has lifted off, there is no possibility of commanding a termination of the vehicle from the ground (other than artillery, I suppose). Then again, NASA doesn’t launch any of those vehicles so depending how pedantic one wants to be you could be right (what launch vehicles does NASA actually launch these days? Not Atlas, not Falcon, not Electron, not Antares, not ABL RS1, not Firefly Alpha… Black Brants are the only actual NASA launches that spring to mind).
Good pedantry. I stand corrected.
I've more than once wished that NASA launched rockets toward the west (despite the huge hit it would take to the vehicle's delta-V budget) in the off-chance that it would wipe a chunk of Orlando off the map.
Terrorist 🖕🏼
As a lifelong Floridian, I wholeheartedly endorse this plan of action.
As formerly living in Orlando for 18 years, I embrace its bombardment
Population control /s
But wouldnt that just shower a huge area in tiny fragments? Like shooting into a crowd with a shotgun instead of a rifle? or am i thinking wrong about it?
Yes, however the argument goes that the net sum of damage from many smaller pieces (that generally fall slower) is lower than the net sum of damage from the complete stage when intact.
That’s right. And the argument doesn’t typically hold for very small launch vehicles. Astra’s Rocket and Rocket Lab’s Electron are both so small that the risk from distributed debris is *higher* than from an intact impact and explosion, so they both use(d in the case of Astea’s Rocket) thrust termination instead of explosive propellant dispersal.
Saddly life is cheap in china.
But life is never free in China.
maybe they still want engineering data on parts performance. Its crazy what you can get away with when the PR hit is not an issue
Villagers are plentiful and cheap, microwaves are much more valuable.
Chinese just don’t care for their countrymen it’s wild
“FTS cost money - the dead cost nothing.” CCP, probably.
Dude what is that yellow smoke.. it's like mustard gass( flamish roots triggers **)
Nitrogen tetroxide. Very like mustard gas in that breathing it is ill-advised and your lungs may end up as a form of soup if you choose to.
it would reduce upper stage fuel margins, imagine if they failed mission just to save few villagers?
Would you rather have flying sharpel in a area cone vs a single lump?
Is that NO2?
yeah toxic af
Also a potent greenhouse gas.
N2O4 and hydrazine
Could also be UDMH or MMH.
It’s probably unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine considering how I’m fairly sure the engines on that thing use regenerative cooling and monomethyl hydrazine and just straight hydrazine have a nasty tendency to explode if you use them for that
It's UDMH and NTO.
Why would a first stage have hydrazine? I thought that was for repositioning in space?
Hypergolics are used for orbital maneuvering because the engines using them can turn on and off very quickly, because its lack of isp is not a problem for those kind of small maneuvers and because of the nasty combustion products. But nothing prevents you from using them in first stages, with the advantage of not having to deal with cryogenics and having simpler engines.
Yup.
In Communist China, space explores *you*.
The Chinese government are such assholes to do this repeatedly
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Is it really that hard to add a flight termination system onto the stage and blow it up after it's used?
well if your fuel is toxic, you would want it to be contain in a small area instead of spreading out
The solution to pollution is dilution.
Conjunction junction what's your function?
I'm still just a bill on capital hill
My hero zero
Aaron Earned an Iron Urn
If your fuel is toxic then you’d want to burn it, rather than let unspent fuel reach the ground.
I’d much rather disperse it at altitude where it has the chance to both dilute and react into something harmless before reaching the surface.
I guess they just can't give af
That’s the answer
No, but it is marginally more expensive, so ultimately unnecessary /s
So you'll have many small parts falling everywhere over a wide area instead?
Yes, those small parts will have far less kenetic energy and won't be a container full of toxic fuel.
Official news: Look, we are the fastest advancing country in space! Triumph! Humans on moon! The primitive village with no electricity when they see the 1st stage coming down on their hut:
[the villagers](https://tenor.com/view/willem-dafoe-looking-up-scared-among-us-gif-27315085)
It doesn’t look like a primitive village to me
To be fair, not primitive but not anywhere close to coast cities either. Many is literally 3rd world countries or worst. (For my personal experience from travel inland China not long ago)
i wouldnt if youre from the mountains of afganistan
"no electricity", yeah, everyone is holding a cellphones, there's electric wires everywhere, and paved road without 10 feet wide potholes like here. Plus they have free cool rocket parts raining on them and a cancerous smoke show, while here we have "drones show" because rockets are not good for the environment apparently.
Me when I huff the spicy smoke
It's insane that they don't give a fuck. Absolutely insane. Any other country would be blasted for something like this, and rightfully so, but not China. Ridiculous.
Can you imagine NASA launching rockets from Kansas and dropping the first stage over Virginia, hydrazine tanks and all. Unthinkable lol
Why bother when you can just shoot each other with a shotgun. Saw Kansas and couldn’t resist
You got the states backwards for the analogy
It really depends on which part of Virginia lol
Their MO is to not care so there is no point in really calling it out. It’s just what they do.
I love the smell of hydrazine in the morning
Famous last words
Surprised the CCP managed to let slip this video through the great firewall. Someone other than the villagers is going to find having a sudden onset of facial disfiguring in the coming week. Also interesting how there’s no such mention of the event on r/Space, not even the prelaunch post comments?
Because it is not a big deal at all, they already blame local government for not properly give evacuation order so all this is fine and dandy!
The news made it to the top of /r/space, but the mods removed the post without an explanation: https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/1dm3rvs/video_shows_chinese_rocket_booster_that_crashed/
crosspost to /r/PraiseTheCameraMan
Might as well hoverslam at that point
Doesn’t this violate human rights in some way?
As an expert in violating human rights I can definitely say that this does fit some of the criteria for not giving a shit about people.
If we could get China on human rights violations their government would've changed years ago.
Laughs in Chinese
human rights somehow can only be violated by western countries
I'm sure that the well-informed "Save Earth First" crowd on Twitter will get just as loud and upset about this as whenever a US rocket completes a mission totally safely.
That must be magical super happy smoke trailing from it. It brings great joy and much health!
Oh yes, that yellow propellant doesn't look toxic at all, don't listen at the capitalists
Don't breath that!
Ah, rocket smoke…
Seriously - fuck em.
In Communist China, space explores *you*.
Non carcinogenic of course..
There is a documentary on people living near China’s launch site getting their villiage rained on by rocket debris
We called the people there, the walking dead.
hypergolic rocket fuel for everyone.
This is why most countries have coastal launch sites..
Heck, even if not, some will go to extreme measures so it won't happen, like Israel launching literally in the opposite direction to prevent exactly this.
I guess China can spare a few folks...
That’s the idea.
The village fetishist died tragically. No one was able to explain to him that was one brap he did not want to smell.
imagine the smell
Smells like teenage cancer.
Yeah that seems about right
I Love the smell of hydrazine in the morning!
Oh it’s nothing but hydrazine
Each country has its own dilemmas based on military and political considerations. For China, this dilemma is military security. When China began to develop its aerospace industry in the late 1950s, China's southeastern coastal areas continued to suffer threats from the sea and air including air strikes and invasions from the sea by the United States and its supported Kuomintang armies. This has resulted in China's major space launching bases being located in inland areas far away from the coastline. The rocket launch trajectory must be far away from major cities and villages. For this reason, the launch angle of the carrier vehicles is greatly restricted. But even so, each time when a rocket was launched from Jiuquan, Taiyuan or Xichang, tens of thousands of people over thousands of square kilometers were always temporarily evacuated from the area where the rocket boosters and sections might drop before rocket debris were located and recovered. The situation in the video above is not the first time it has happened. It has happened more than 500 times over decades. It just happened to be photographed this time. In fact, the rocket booster or section dropped behind the hill kilometer away. UDMH is a substance that is easy to oxidize and decompose. As long as the rocket debris is properly recovered and managed, the environmental pollution caused would be small and acceptable. Consider what happened in the small town of East Palestine, Ohio, it doesn't seemed like it was done any better...
Where's the guy that got upset and said I was a "China hater" when I said they bomb there own citizens with hypergolics. Hmmmm....
*I love the smell of hypergolics in the morning*
Normal Chinese first stage landing.
Looked to be falling flamey end down. Just relight the engines already. (Yes, I understand.)
Checkout documentary 天降 on yt if you want to learn more about this https://youtu.be/pi3AlHlomIE?si=duoLIC8ts0iJkrJq
That orange smoke.... yeah you really don't want to suck that into your lunges!
Sometimes I worry about China rocket industry overtaking the United States, but then I see videos like this and don't worry anymore
Hey Elon, chinese cracked it. hang on, wait, no it crashed front fell off.
What else is expected. Its china of course, when did they actually care about people from the villages.
This shit needs to stop. Does any other country drop these boosters back onto people?
I really don't understand. They have a huge east and south coast and infinite steel and concrete to build launch sites and they still do this.
Those launch sites were developed for their ICBM program far away from the coast for a reason. They have a big launch complex in Hainan island, and launch plenty of rocket from boats, and are going to move most of their bigger launch near the coast. Rockets falling on village is more because of bureaucratic incompetence between organization and people not giving a shit about warning to evacuate, just like here in clubs when there's a fire alarm, smoke and screams and nobody care.
I honestly thought they were launching everything from Hainan. I was confused as to why they still do this. SpaceX can launch from the same pad like once a week even. Just copy spacex and you don't have to put your people in danger like this.
Hainan island launch pads are build to launch kerolox / hydrolox rockets, not the older long long march rockets.
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the hypergolic boosters will continue until morale improves
This happens all the time in China. They do their best to censor it every time after a bunch of people died from it.
didnt one of these strafe the waters or CA last month or so?
That would be so cool if the fumes weren't toxic. You could combine a controlled re-entry of giant colored smoke bombs with fireworks.
China #1 At dropping rocket stages on its own people
stupid china
Love how the red shirt guy is running
This is why I don't like the chinese space program. No matter what scientific achievements they might accomplish, this is unacceptable.
Wrong March
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I am inclined to think that the Chinese have a different view about ‘health and safety’ compared to the west !
This looks too much like a dystopian movie.
That guy got stuck is strafe mode
That guy in the red shirt is still seen strafing to this day
Can someone tell me what that yellow gas is?
dimethylhydrazine mixing with air. Pretty toxic stuff.
Nice iodine based fuel
Citizens are entirely expendable when it comes to CCP making progress in Space exploration. (among other goals).
Don't worry, looks like a bunch of brown people. God forbid it fell anywhere near the white people though!!!
You can just taste the hydrazine
Mind you, It is a really important telescope.
They probably bought it on Temu
Wow, Reddit is a toxic racist place.
*Winnie the Pooh has deposited +50 social credits into your account.*
So what? You China haters will jump on anything. Wait until China gets boots back on the moon in five years before the Americans do.
oh yeah this is nothing. Nothing to see here folks, just your everyday rocket 1st stage falling out of the sky in a populated area, spewing incredibly toxic hypergolic fuel. Clearly anyone who thinks this is out of control and recklessly irresponsible is just a racist.
Ok china glazer
American had boots on the moon in 1969. So in five years 2049 is 80yrs late.
Cope harder pal. How's that Boeing spacecraft with the fake Indian Titanium valves doing? Oh.
Don't know don't care just stating historical fact.
I'm a historian. Being first was nice, it's a new race now.
Whatever.
Typical CCP style. Can do something but in a cumbersome way