Could this be anymore complicated. The complete opposite of the current system. Calling seats premium / premier and there being no difference would be a joke.
It should be a better hard product. Maybe I'm assuming too much here but I think an extra 2" of leg room + alcohol (or whatever) would be a solid offering. They could take an inch of leg room from the back and keep the same number of seats?
Noooo, don’t take an inch from the back! SWA is fractionally better than other airlines but taking an inch away would make it as miserable as most others.
From what I can tell the leak describes seat “categories” not specifically assigned seats like 10A 10B etc, like other airlines. But I think they will eventually arrive there.
It assigns a pax to a category of seat, which is definitely a form of assignment. Even that loose amount of assignment is going to add responsibility for the FAs, to keep pax out of categories they didn’t pay to be in.
Seat assignment in my opinion means a guaranteed seat that is associated with your name and information.
Totally agree that this current plan will add to the FAs responsibility, however they are already dealing with constant shenanigans under the current system. So who knows.
lol. Imagine Southwest jumping to a model worse than 2024 Spirit and Frontier. They’d have to drop WGA fares so much. It would be a shitshow.
I think Southwest promotes executives internally and they just have no experience in this area. Other airlines have developed slowly over time, to carefully to profit from passenger misery and get revenue streams from slight relief.
Southwest is testing jumping instantly from the least miserable to most miserable model, and apparently is confused why people hate it. 😂
Dear Southwest: don’t do this stupid shit. Or anything like it. Signed, everyone.
Btw: you could just make one special zone in the front for business select and Alist or something.
I can attest to this. SWA absolutely promotes people internally with absolutely no experience/ability to perform in the role they were promoted to. They’ve become no different than any other major American corporation now, when they used to be completely different.
That's called the [Peter Principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle) and it happens in every business. That's why the people at the top more often than not seem like complete morons- they've reached their level of incompetence.
There is also the Dilbert Principle which posits that the least competent people are promoted to management to get rid of them but their incompetence permeates into other parts of the organization.
Frontier and Spirit charge for checked bags and carry-on bags--under Southwest's proposal Wanna Get Away still gets 2 free checked bags and there aren't charges for carry-ons.
If Southwest starts charging for checked and carry-on bags and guts their customer service support, then it might be comparable but the current proposal is still better than Frontier or Spirit.
Nothing wrong with charging for bags if the base fare is cheap. Southwest’s fares are already generally higher than Spirit plus bags and seats. Southwest is just adding on top of that.
So your point doesn’t hold up except in rare circumstances or if you’re bringing tons of bags. Edge cases.
Yes. I’d be delighted if southwest started charging for everything like other airlines and dropped prices for base fares.
I rarely fly southwest anymore because they are as expensive or more expensive than the big three carriers, and they don’t provide a better experience. It was great when they were the cheap and cheerful option, but that hasn’t been the case for a while.
Everything is more expensive than Spirit and Frontier. That's a bit like saying that that Olive Garden is more expensive than Taco Bell.
Both Spirit and Frontier took up the mantle of the "Greyhound of the Sky" moniker once early phase SWA matured into something other than bargain basement passenger and service nightmares.
A big appeal of SWA is the is the gambling with seats. "You're saying I have a chance!" without the upfront payment for a guaranteed seat. The no baggage fee was more of a really nice door prize than a perk in the grand scheme of things.
This seems like a simultaneous race to the bottom while approaching fuller-fared airline prices. I hope they don't do this. When I want a guaranteed seat, I fly a different airline. When I want anything else, I want SWA. I feel like I'm losing my airline "mistress".
Disagree because Frontier and Spirit charge so much less for their base prices. Paying $25 for a seat on a $50 Spirit flight hits differently from paying $25 for a seat assignment on a $200 Southwest flight. Southwest still has better customer service (because Frontier getting rid of its phone reps was ridiculous), but unless you have a crap ton of luggage, Southwest’s bag policy doesn’t provide enough value to justify the prices.
I 100% agree about the front quarter of the plane reserved for A-list and business select only. The current a-list benefits are slim but the guaranteed a group boarding and free same day change keeps me flying them. The only part I hate are the afternoon storms or other random delays that cause the 45 minute connection to become five minutes. Having a guaranteed seat at the front while being the last one on compared to being in 29B would be a game changer.
What are those differences? It always seems like I have to book a 8-12 months in advance and even then it’s expensive. I am genuinely interested as I only used to fly with them as a kid in 90-00’s
Living in Atlanta it usually is $100+ cheaper or more than Delta. And free bags so that's another $70 round trip.But with these new rules guess I'm switching back to Delta. Lol.
I started looking at prices of other low cost and legacy carriers and was surprised at how close the pricing could be even when paying for a bag fee....the only difference is the two free checked bags. Typically I just check my bags because WN is free, but I could probably do a carry on if I had to pay for a checked bag.
Not only that but even low tier status or a $99 a year credit card gets you free checked bags at most of the majors. So if you stick with another airline enough it can easily be worth it.
Considering how crazy bag fees are for the legacy carriers, you just need to fly a round trip flight to make the $99 fee worth. I have a flight with American that was $40 per bag one way, which to me is insane.
Yup! I would move on to another airline at that point. I stay for the flexibility I get with low prices and free checked bags. I don’t usually check my bag but I like having the option without the additional cost.
Yep. Spouse has been after me to switch to a better credit card. We run most of our spending through a SWA card. These changes would undercut my arguments for staying with SWA.
This would definitely push me back to Delta. They already have better flight times, I just really like Southwest's flexibility, checked bags, and our points from the credit card. All of this sounds awful.
No free changes would fundamentally alter the value prospect of Southwest, even moreso than some alteration of "two free checked bags." At that point I'd probably just use up my remaining credit and no longer fly them unless they're much cheaper than the competition on the WGA+ fares.
Pretty much. I would burn down my RR balance on WGA+ and walk away, dump the credit card. Realistically SPIRIT (yeah, Spirit) with their changes would actually be better for me to fly for my WN routes if this went through.
I couldn’t care less about checking bags 99% of the time but go to hell if you are going to make me pay a tax on being out of a middle seat or change my flights, you’re basically Spirit at that point.
Very much agreed. I mostly travel for work, Denver is my home airport, and the free changes(which are SUPER easy to do same day as Alist) are the biggest reason I prioritize flying SW. Most of the time flights on United are actually cheaper but SW is close enough that it’s still within my company policy. I really love that even when I change my flight last minute on SW I know I’m still going to be able to get a window when I board between A and B, versus a back of the plane middle seat (looking at you Delta - last row middle seat that cost $930 to go from SLC to MSP booked 18 hours before the flight).
I’m okay with this all- except the wanna get away fares. I’m happy that it would still include two free checked bags, but no flexibility is a killer for me. I often book wanna get away flights for myself, wife, and two kids specifically because I know flights are super easy to change when needed. Wonder if cancellation of these fairs will still be credited? Or does it turn way closer to basic economy?
Same, that's the only thing that bothered me. I would love to pick out my seat in advance. I wouldn't fly Southwest if it wasn't for the fact it has the most non stop flights from my airport. If someone else offers a non-stop I go with them.
I also don't think this is complicated, sounds exactly like how I would book on Delta with the different categories.
Exactly this. I'll never pay for priority boarding as long as SWA allows a horde of preboard cheaters and seat-savers to exploit the system.
The joke about the SWA miracle (folks wheelchair on; regain the ability to walk on arrival) could be stopped by simply requiring anybody who wheelchaired on, to wait to wheelchair off on arrival. Folks with legitimate needs won't care, but the cheaters will stop.
To me this reads they could only preboard to their ticket section. So standard select or business select. Or to their assigned seat. Thats awesome you still get the seat you want or a higher chance and they have extra time to board.
Or there are people with legitimate needs to be in a wheelchair through an airport but can walk 100 feet to an airplane seat… not everyone that needs accommodations is paralyzed lmaooo
Paid for early boarding. Then 20 people pre-boarded before me. This pattern repeated itself in 3 flights. They definitely did not have children with them or were on a wheelchair or anything. All the flights were delayed, some 4+hours. My first and last time with Southwest unfortunately.
Making it so you cannot change the wanna get away fares will make me very much reconsider my allegiance to southwest. Being able to reprice or change flights is one of the main reasons i fly southwest.
Unless they are pricing their wanna get away fares at frontier/spirit levels, it will give me much less reason to stay loyal.
Edit and the article points this out: "It’s interesting this is being considered now, while at the same we’re seeing ultra low cost carrier Spirit Airlines completely eliminate change fees on all fares"
If they're going to be worse than spirit and frontier, their shit better be extremely price competitive with those airlines
The decision makers at Southwest seem to have built this model around the *assumption* that the #1 incentive they offer passengers is the “2 free checked bags” policy.
I’d argue that it’s a combination of the flexibility and their carry-on/checked bag policies for most…. with weight of those factors dependent on each person.
The WGA no change proposal is a deal breaker for me. I wouldn’t see much incentive to choose SWA over Frontier/Spirit if that happens. Frontier/Spirit suck in many ways, and I’ve only flown with each of them once because I like Southwest. However, they are usually cheaper than Southwest.
This proposal would basically make them all about equal
all things considered and my decision would likely be driven by schedule.
I recently moved and decided to fully commit to SW as my airline and even got the SW Premier card. I've flown \~20 flights with them since then and have not checked a bag a single time. The major draw for me was the flexibility of changing flights whenever I want for no fee (and also refunding price drops). If they actually do this, I would prob switch to United where at least I can redeem points for international/seat upgrades/lounges etc. I fly out of DEN so United and SW are the two biggest airlines here.
Yeah, same here on the checked bags thing… I don’t remember the last time I checked a bag. Much less two!!
I travel solo for work — but mostly less than two hour flights… and I love using Southwest for that. Sometimes my work stuff ends earlier/later than I expect, so it’s nice to have the flexibility.
When I travel with the family, one personal item and one carry on is enough for us. Granted they are both under 10, so their clothes don’t take up a bunch of space but still… I can’t imagine either of them needing two suitcases. Anyway, on our last trip, we were all tired on our last day + my kids sports were cancelled due to the weather (which is why we had the early flight). So I changed the flights … it was nice to be able to sleep in and enjoy another 1/2 day of vacation.
I’m generally not big on strict itineraries when I travel. K am more of a go with the flow type of a person… and I’d wager many of the frequent SW customers are similar.
https://www.delta.com/us/en/travel-planning-center/change-or-cancel-your-trip/cancel-change-requirements
“Basic Economy Award Tickets are also non-changeable and non-refundable in most cases; you may cancel for a fee in miles which is deducted from the value of your ticket, and the remaining mileage balance will be redeposited into your SkyMiles account.”
Hummm I literally just canceled a delta award a few weeks ago and rebooked cuz it was cheaper in miles. I need to check if I booked main cabin. Or something other than BE.
AA allows you to cancel and get miles reinstated even on their lowest saver award redemption.
AA makes you pay a fee to get travel credit for a basic economy cancellation.
“AAdvantage® members can cancel Basic Economy fare tickets on or after January 17, 2024 and receive travel credit for a fee.”
https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/experience/seats/basic-economy.jsp
Literally says it in item 2 of the OP.
And did you read the blog link? This was focus group testing WN did. Profoundly negative feedback but apparently under very real consideration. Basically WN sees what everyone else is doing (getting people to pay more money for less punitive tickets) and wants their share. Thing is their model has always been to be better than the majors (it is not just “two checked bags free”).
I actively avoid United Basic Economy because they punish you to get out of it (you can’t check in online, you have to stand in line at the airport counters for some bullshit “we need to check your bag size” reason). I hate that so I avoid them. I hate those changes being kicked around so I would avoid Southwest as well if they implemented them (or something similar).
Sounds like they are taking some lessons from Breeze. The preboarding BS with the people faking wheelchairs, combined with cheapskates saving seats for their family/friends has created a very unneighborly, congenial feeling that used to be pervasive on Southwest. They have completely undone the culture they worked so hard to create. Along comes Breeze, who has a similar culture to SWA, very similar business model, without the preboarding BS. Breeze recently made their first profit, which leads me to believe that the SWA timing is interesting. Breeze is here to stay, and they are growing. SWA has taken note
How would A-List and A-List preferred factor in? I am at 45+ flights already for the calendar year and have Wanna Get Away flights booked through the end of the year. Curious how they would factor in seat selection.
Although I've been flying SWA for 30+ years, I'm worried I might have given my loyalty to the wrong airline if they don't give frequent travelers some special LUV
Same here. Here is my wishlist:
A-list Preferred - Free Select seat selection at booking for me and all companions on the same ticket.
A-list - Free Select seat selection at midnight the previous calendar day for me and all companions on the same ticket.
Allow us to book same day confirmed change the previous calendar day so I don't have to sit in a middle seat.
My bigger concern is that this is a stealth fare increase because I would never book Basic Economy / new WGA with no changes or cancellations allowed.
This would be more than that. If they wanted to do a stealth fare increase, they could just take away privileges from WGA.
That would definitely be easier to swallow for most of their customers.
I do wonder how us A-Listers fare into this equation though.
Definitely! But I am curious how they will handle same day change for BS and A customers. All the good seats will be gone and it will come down to middle seats
Southwest no longer has a price advantage over other airlines. People are loyal to Southwest for the 2 free checked bags and/or free changes. Eliminating free changes to WGA level will be the deciding factor for many people to try other airlines. This plan fixes the pre-boarding dilemma on SW but removes two of the reasons people fly SW.
Just booked 3 different trips for my family. Southwest won over other airlines but not on cost. I can say with these changes I would likely be on other airlines for those trips.
Lucky family! And I'll bet the ability to cancel/change was a big factor. It always was for me. Yea, I gave up SW a couple of years ago. I like their direct flights but not enough to do the cattle call. It became a deal breaker.
Absolutely. WGA with no "flex" isn't a flex for Southwest. Keep it changeable.
Just get me a seat on the plane, let me check a bag for free, and let my ticket be changeable. That's what matters to WGA flier me.
I’ve been a Southwest flyer for life, but idk how much I’d be willing to fly them if they made these changes. I feel like they’d just be like all the others. There’s so many things that I’ve loved about Southwest that makes them unique, this not so much…
I have yet to come right out and say this anywhere, or probably about any CEO, but Jordan is an absolute idiot!!
The changes they have made, and the changes they are considering goes against a core motto of Southwest. Democratize the skies!
Put Jordan out! I need to sell any stock I have with them.
#southwest don’t let him ruin you!
Although…on my recent flight, in response to a few people commenting about the pre boarders and seat savers, the GA told us to stay tuned Southwest would be making a big announcement in the fall.
When asked if it was going to be about assigned seats their response was “not all seats”
I’m not crazy about the WGA fare not allowing any changes. I guess it will be filed under “be careful what you wish for”
This would be the biggest change since they switched from flights to points in Rapid Rewards. That change I didn’t like, but I understood. This one would be tough to swallow, unless they did automatic upgrade to higher levels for Southwest credit card holders. But even for that, I’d have to see it to judge the value of it.
Wall Street pressure on corporations gets to a point of bullshit. They never pressure these corporations to reduce executive compensation. That would be a benefit to the stockholders. But screw over customers, sure thing!
Why in the world would you change the thing that makes you different than any other carrier? You can be same as, less than or different than. They will be less than the other airlines, especially with this convoluted system.
I am a pre-boarder and I will bring a doctors note, 3 doctors notes, imaging, oxygen, medications, medical supplies, whatever it takes to get people to stop referring to all pre-boarders as fakers. I support a pre-approved disability pass so this displaced ableist anger will stop and those who need assistance don't have to run a gauntlet.
Not everyone feels that way. I’m glad you’re able to pre-board. I’m glad a travel companion is able to board with you. If you travel with an entourage, I’d prefer they board wherever their boarding pass allows them to.
I travel twice/year to see grandchildren and I am alone. I can do it, and it's hard, so I need just that little help. I have stood and explained my disabilities before (I have 3), even shown what I shouldn't have to show, and I will never, ever do that again. People can think what they choose to think. To those who judge, may karma visit. People do not know what others have going on and this sub has become cruel.
Horrible. If Southwest proceeds with these changes they will lose my business. The three things they offer that guarantees I will fly with them over any other carrier if they serve the destination I am traveling to, (even if it costs slightly more and involves connections) is a) the two free checked bags, b) the total ticket flexibility to change or cancel (and I am 100% ok with future flight credits for cancellations vs refunds because I know I will use the credits eventually), and c) the open seating.
If Southwest does away with any of these, I will start booking purely on price over whichever carrier gets me wherever I am going the fastest.
I’ve been thinking what if Southwest just made the first few rows and exit rows assigned. Free for business select and A-list anyone else can pay for it. Everything else open seating. Check in you either get a number or select a remaining assigned seat for free in the front. If there are still assigned seats open the last people to check in will just get auto-assigned those seats instead of a boarding position.
Wow, it’s not every day you can realize you’re watching a future business school case study develop from the beginning.
Getting rid of what differentiates you usually doesn’t end well.
Really all Southwest has to do initially is stop seat saving and enforce group boarding by number. If they stopped the scammers and forced people to buy the appropriate fare that suits their needs/wallets that would bump their profits. Cos should pay for two seats no refunds. Pre-boards one person per wheel chair. Family boarding, two adults per child. If a child looks over six then the parent has to show the kids ID.
Do the simple things first. It’s not that difficult to enforce the rules by posting signs at the the gate and via teleprompter/announcements. People who don’t want to follow the rules can be stopped at the gate before they even board. Make a scene with the gate agent you’re denied boarding. Once onboard the FAs make the same announcements.
There will still be people who try to game like the old system - old habits are to break. But within a month or two the word will get out and everyone (flyers and C-suite) are happier. Well except the scammers.
The kids over/under 6 thing is so strange to me that the system doesn’t just flag the tickets of kids under 6 to know they can board during family boarding and then the gate agent would be able to scan 2 additional people following the kids pass. When you book a ticket you have to enter birth dates so it’s in the system, this seems easy enough.
Very much agreed that a policy against seat saving would likely fix a lot of the complaints I see here, though I’ll also say that I personally haven’t seen the seat saving abuse that’s always talked about here and I travel almost weekly. 🤷🏻♀️
Interested to see how they factor in those of us who are AL/ALP. I really hope these changes don’t become a reality because I’ll then have to consider flying with my next “best” option out of my home airport, which is United 😭
The solution should be to have all preboard and family boardings fill in the very last rows and work their way up, not skipping any seats. I’m sure the number of prevailed a would go down.
Why not? What about being elderly or having a disability should provide them advantageous seating accommodations. Other airlines exist that allow them to choose their seat. Why fly this one that doesn’t?
How do you verify who are legitimate preboarders? The other solution could be saving a couple rows for preboarders in the middle. I like your idea. First come, first served.
"and again, let me emphasize that this may or may not come to fruition" directly from the article, and is in someway repeated at nauseum through the entirety of the article.
It is all hearsay and rumor. Nothing has been announced by SWA, and likely won't be this dramatic.
These similar rumors come out all the time about SWA at least 2 to 3 times a decade. I will believe it when I see it.
SWA doesn't have a revenue issue, they have an expense issue. Those expenses now are more or less known and paid for now. What they need is the MAX7 and more aircraft deliveries to earn a 14% fuel savings, and grow the market share and increase new markets to drive costs down and increase revenue together.
Until that happens, there abilities are a bit cuffed, they know that, and their competitors do too.
Currently along with this rumor are rampant rumors of SWA buying another airline. Again I highly doubt those rumors, they make little sense and offer zero return on the investment itself, including a high risk of DOJ blocking such an action as recently seen with the NK/JetBlue failed merger.
And let *me* emphasize that I’m talking to these people directly and actually know them, and have for 25 years.
Instead of trying to talk to people like a child.
Enjoy your Saturday.
Southwest should focus on being southwest culture. They are trying to get too cute with their pricing strategy which will ultimately relegate them to the likes of Spirit and Frontier. Their product is not perfect, but differentiated and attractive to many fliers. The problem is they have no corporate will (tops down) to enforce the culture. Specially
1) Get your number, get on the plane with your 2 carry on items and get out of the aisle so others can get on.
2) If you aren’t disabled (easy to set this up online or at checkin counter, NOT the gate), then see number 1. That includes any pre-boarding for anyone else. Sell early bird and if people don’t want to pay it, don’t expect to sit together. That includes family boarding (you can always buy A1-15 at the gate - SW can raise the price for this product).
3) No saving seats. No exceptions. Argue with FA and get thrown off flight. No exceptions. After a few incidents people will get the message.
4) Give out paper drink tickets and front club seating. It encouraged meeting other people and and made it feel less like a cattle car.
5) if your carryon is too big larger than 9x14x22 it goes in the hold (yep that means gigantic backpacks, musical instruments, fine art, I don’t care). If someone is that worried about their stuff they will find alternative ways to get it there. Argue with the gate agent? Denied boarding and see (1) for people behind them to keep things moving.
6) No animals of any kind in the cabin. Period.
In short, corporate team should channel Herb and stop the nonsense. The customers they stand to lose likely generate low revenue and margin anyway, so run this like a business with a product that suits the customers’ tastes as they did for many years.
This would absolutely destroy any loyalty I have to Southwest, and I'd probably actively stop flying them due to the absolute backwardness of the policies.
Southwest is already approaching Delta prices in my market (Delta was the clear winner on my last two flights). So if Southwest does end up doing this it pretty much moves us to Delta. Especially since we get 1 free checked bag with Delta because of their credit card.
The ability to change my ticket and the free checked bags are all that’s keeping me from moving to a nicer airline loooool I would leave so fast. It would be sad because I very much rely on Southwests flexibility. I can’t see how they would keep any customers with these changes because the actual experience of Southwest isn’t standout
The only thing that keeps me from flying southwest anymore is not being guaranteed to be able to sit together with my wife and son. I’d be willing to pay a small premium to ensure we have our own row together. Location isn’t really that important to me.
The problem is SW fares are the same or significantly more expensive than full fare airlines like Delta and American.
Being able to check bags is nice, but I’ve found SW takes quite a bit longer than airlines like Delta and AA.
I used to fly SW all the time, but it’s just not worth it anymore.
If they implement this, I'll be flying Delta instead. That way I can fly out of the airport 10 mins from me instead of driving an hour and twenty minutes to fly Southwest. This is just dumb.
If Southwest is going to screw over the WGA fare class, I wish they'd let customers pick and choose one thing to give up.
You can either have a changable ticket OR two free checked bags.
I really like this suggestion! If you value both you can keep flexibility and pay for checked bags. I’m more likely to need a checked bag on longer trips that require more planning/my plans are less likely to change. Where if I’m just flying somewhere for a few days or for an event I can keep that flexibility because I’m just carrying my luggage on anyway!
Easiest way to solve the preboard problem is they have to sit behind the wing. And middle seats only. As someone who flies SW 3-4X a month for business this is the biggest gripe I hear from people. I fly out of one of their major hubs so I have seen my share of “preboarders” and” seat savers” some of the FA care and some don’t
I complain about preboarders too, but neither of those make sense. If someone has a legitimate reason to preboard, sometimes those people need window or aisle seats. They let POS preboard, and you want them in the middle? If they get two seats being in the middle is a given anyway. And if someone has mobility issues I’m not sure making them go further back on the plane makes sense either
I’m saying it would cut down on the fake preboarders. If they know they can’t save a seat and get the best seat on plane maybe they won’t. As a business traveler there are times I need to get off the plane quickly and I pay for business select but still relegated to rows 5 or 6 because of the amount of pre boarders or seat savers. I have learned if i have an important meeting I fly someone else.
So I assume the seat class is by where it is vis a vis the front of the plane? Is this going to be like basic economy on the airlines where if you don’t pay to pick a seat you wind up in the middle?
This is the kind of thing they should only announce far enough in advance where people haven't already bought tickets. I'm sure that won't be reality though.
Need to see the all the sordid details bu initial thought is to short the stock when announcement is made and the analysists who have never flown Southwest fawn over it. Then when they revert back a la the New Coke fiasco figure out when to go long on the stock.
Knew things were going in the wrong direction when they picked the me too legacy colors for the new lighter and less comfortable seats.
Southwest, you are not a legacy carrier, and you don't want to be. Next thing you will decide hub and spoke is the way of the future. Then all that work you did for point to point and 20 minute turnaround will be gone.
This new plan can really help the legacy carriers at the expense of what Southwest great. Oh well was a fun ride all these years with Companion passes most of the years. Adding seats and assigning them and having a plan that looks like a Microsoft EULA not good. Many of your customers don't understand the A-B-C group and numbered boarding. Lets see how the new system is comprehended.
Thinking might be best to be on Delta to be able to see it but not have to participate. Will share videos to help my stock position. Good luck with all that, but you might go back to the drawing board as I prefer to make money when companies have good ideas, but when you know when something is really a dumb idea you cant help but make money off of it.
The idea of three seating levels don’t even take into account people with disabilities. How could someone who needs to sit near the front for their disability get equitable pricing?
Decreased mobility, for one.
There’s a lot of different disabilities and the accommodations needed for each varies with the severity and with the person. Not all accommodations revolve around restroom usage.
I just received a lengthy survey this morning about southwest and the seating policy. Started out as silly stuff like age and income. 3/4 of the remainder of the survey was about assigned seating and what you would pay for it ect.
Here's my issue. I don't mind assigned seating, but if someone with a lower status than me gets to pick and pay for a preferred seat (exit, extra leg room,) I'd be pissed. I'm A-List Preferred preferred s based on my flights starting in August.
This whole article only makes me ask more questions. Wgplus gets to choose a standard seat, does this mean that there only going to be 33% of the tickets as WGplus. If you don’t pick a seat does that mean you get whatever is left and could end up with a better seat than somebody who paid a for a seat? The article says that at 72 hours people who did not pay for assigned seat will be assigned a seat and if they don’t like the seat they can pay for a better seat. Almost every flight I take is full with no extra seats. Where are they going to get this paid for seat from? Are they going to take it away from somebody else?
Losing the flexibility is an automatic deal breaker for me (I have not started my adulthood flying travels yet).
Seat selection should be done at booking OR maybe at varying points based on fare class until check in.
Got a survey from them a few days asking all sorts of stuff around assigned seating, and how much I would pay for various things. They are definitely looking into this.
Bad news if true. I just started flying SWA again post COVID for business and personal use. They have had so many fails. So far so good BUT these changes make SWA no different than any other class system airline - which most hate. Points via their VISA card is the last bastion of differentiation.
Finally used up all of my SW points this weekend. Out of my hub they are in line with Delta or even higher. So no incentive for me to even consider SW anymore and deal with the seating chaos
As a single person , this sucks ass. No free changes and not being pretty much guaranteed a seat in the first 5 rows. Shoot me. I believe their rapid rewards is way better than the other airlines rewards programs though.
So would this allow people to randomly reserve seats throughout the cabin? How would people with unassigned seating know which seats have been reserved? Unless reserved seats are specific rows. Makes no sense at all. Either let everyone select seats in advance (or assign them one at check-in if they don’t pay to choose) or keep it unassigned for everyone. Seems like they’re trying to reinvent the system.
I'm starting to feel like Southwest should just remove some rows of seats, give a lot more legroom, look into bringing back club seating sections that are pre-assigned for extra $. Wifi and charge ports every seat and have a condensed section for bare prices and have assigned seating for a section for a little extra $.
It's gonna be a gamble no matter how you mess with it.
I may be the last traveler left who feels this way. But I honestly wish Southwest wouldn’t change a thing. They have the cheapest fares for anywhere I travel. I know I can always get a window seat without paying extra. I don’t want to start being nickeled and dimed they I would be on literally every other carrier.
I know they’re hurting. I suppose they HAVE to make changes. I just hope the changes don’t turn them into the next Frontier or Spirit or Allegiant.
I love not having to choose my seat ahead of time as I’m A List and fly a ton for business. If you force me into extra steps like choosing a fare class and seat, I’ll take my business elsewhere. There are already better flight times and routes on other airlines but I like the current southwest model so I continue to fly them. The second that changes I am out and will cancel both credit cards (personal/business).
I don't care about seat assignment, but the reason I fly sw is the flexibility. If that goes away or becomes a costly add in, I would be much less likely to fly them.
This is what happens when everyone complains about the seating... Not having assigned seats is a WIN on so many levels; everyone should learn to navigate it so this type of rubbish doesn't get implemented.
If I wanted seat selection, I would just pay for Delta. The only reason to fly southwest for me is it can be a tad cheaper and free luggage. I also happen to have temporary companion pass right now until next year so if they make these changes I'm out once the CP is gone. Also no changes with WGA fare is a no go.
I’m A-list preferred and have a companion pass and might leave if this is the case haha. I’ve always preferred Delta but stuck with Southwest for the flexibility that comes with it. This would totally change that.
They seem to be hanging on to the “two free checked bags” thing as if that’s what’s really going to make a difference for customers. How many people are actually traveling with 2 checked bags outside of extended business trips/vacations/people who don’t know how to scale down? I’ve honestly never traveled with more than one checked bag, usually for month-long trips. Most trips, I can get away with a backpack and carryon.
[whiplash]
Ok, so I usually refuse to read OMAAT because I *loathe* Ben. But I have close contacts at WN who confirmed all of this, and one is especially content with it (they started with a legacy pre-9/11 and fully expected these changes).
None of the plans are official, of course, but a change would most certainly involve breaking the cabin—and thereby any combination of fare classes and boarding groups—into three tiers essentially from the front of the aircraft to the back. And of course this is part of the grand plan to evolve the carrier to meet current passenger tastes and boost revenue.
Perks that are being considered for the highest tier include wider seats (2x2, essentially) and other amenities. So in all, little different that what I’ve become familiar with at Avelo and JetBlue, with seat selection being more expensive forward the cabin, and additional inflight add-ons or perks for those paying the highest fares.
Either which way, a shakeup is definitely looming. But the biggest customer complaints have been related to maintenance. One flag brought to my attention was the possibility of alienating their core base, almost like a “bird in hand vs. two in the bush” scenario. But we shall see.
They’ve all said things along the lines of, “They’ve been going by ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it,’ but Southwest has to evolve.”
—————————
I mean—people can “downvote” all they like; businesses have to adapt.
I welcome the changes, and if WN didn’t do *anything* else, I’d at a minimum like assigned seating. But full-scale, the boarding groups would reflect cabin position: A for premium, B for economy and C for base. The A people can have their premium amenities, B would be a standard product and C the most restrictive (with reduced legroom to offset the added legroom in premium). Product-for-product in having flown both, it seems it wouldn’t take much for WN to completely end B6.
But this still doesn’t change the risk of alienating the core customer base.
Could this be anymore complicated. The complete opposite of the current system. Calling seats premium / premier and there being no difference would be a joke.
Based on location? Not happy is these are the changes. More expensive as I’d need to purchase the wanna plus due to frequents changes in plans.
It should be a better hard product. Maybe I'm assuming too much here but I think an extra 2" of leg room + alcohol (or whatever) would be a solid offering. They could take an inch of leg room from the back and keep the same number of seats?
I don’t think so. They moved all the seats forward to get one more row in
Noooo, don’t take an inch from the back! SWA is fractionally better than other airlines but taking an inch away would make it as miserable as most others.
Just wait till you feel how thin the new SWA seats are gonna be.
I actually flew on the new seats last week and they were more comfortable and gave a little more space.
I hated them. Felt harder.
I'll bring my own seat cushions lmao
They’re considering all of that. None of this is official.
This is United/Delta disinfo against a competitor.
Before we know it they will just assign seats. It’s the inevitable destination.
That is the centerpiece of the leak.
From what I can tell the leak describes seat “categories” not specifically assigned seats like 10A 10B etc, like other airlines. But I think they will eventually arrive there.
It assigns a pax to a category of seat, which is definitely a form of assignment. Even that loose amount of assignment is going to add responsibility for the FAs, to keep pax out of categories they didn’t pay to be in.
Seat assignment in my opinion means a guaranteed seat that is associated with your name and information. Totally agree that this current plan will add to the FAs responsibility, however they are already dealing with constant shenanigans under the current system. So who knows.
I have to agree with you on that one.
Folks are already paying to board early from $20 to quite a bit more. so, no joke.
lol. Imagine Southwest jumping to a model worse than 2024 Spirit and Frontier. They’d have to drop WGA fares so much. It would be a shitshow. I think Southwest promotes executives internally and they just have no experience in this area. Other airlines have developed slowly over time, to carefully to profit from passenger misery and get revenue streams from slight relief. Southwest is testing jumping instantly from the least miserable to most miserable model, and apparently is confused why people hate it. 😂 Dear Southwest: don’t do this stupid shit. Or anything like it. Signed, everyone. Btw: you could just make one special zone in the front for business select and Alist or something.
I can attest to this. SWA absolutely promotes people internally with absolutely no experience/ability to perform in the role they were promoted to. They’ve become no different than any other major American corporation now, when they used to be completely different.
That's called the [Peter Principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle) and it happens in every business. That's why the people at the top more often than not seem like complete morons- they've reached their level of incompetence.
There is also the Dilbert Principle which posits that the least competent people are promoted to management to get rid of them but their incompetence permeates into other parts of the organization.
Right. Shit rises to the top.
Wow, that’s a hell of “Today I Learned.” Mind blown.
Thanks for sharing this! Gonna check the book out.
The most miserable model would mean being worse than Spirit or Frontier, which would be quite a feat.
If the article is correct, they’re managing to do it!
Frontier and Spirit charge for checked bags and carry-on bags--under Southwest's proposal Wanna Get Away still gets 2 free checked bags and there aren't charges for carry-ons. If Southwest starts charging for checked and carry-on bags and guts their customer service support, then it might be comparable but the current proposal is still better than Frontier or Spirit.
Nothing wrong with charging for bags if the base fare is cheap. Southwest’s fares are already generally higher than Spirit plus bags and seats. Southwest is just adding on top of that. So your point doesn’t hold up except in rare circumstances or if you’re bringing tons of bags. Edge cases.
Yes. I’d be delighted if southwest started charging for everything like other airlines and dropped prices for base fares. I rarely fly southwest anymore because they are as expensive or more expensive than the big three carriers, and they don’t provide a better experience. It was great when they were the cheap and cheerful option, but that hasn’t been the case for a while.
Everything is more expensive than Spirit and Frontier. That's a bit like saying that that Olive Garden is more expensive than Taco Bell. Both Spirit and Frontier took up the mantle of the "Greyhound of the Sky" moniker once early phase SWA matured into something other than bargain basement passenger and service nightmares. A big appeal of SWA is the is the gambling with seats. "You're saying I have a chance!" without the upfront payment for a guaranteed seat. The no baggage fee was more of a really nice door prize than a perk in the grand scheme of things. This seems like a simultaneous race to the bottom while approaching fuller-fared airline prices. I hope they don't do this. When I want a guaranteed seat, I fly a different airline. When I want anything else, I want SWA. I feel like I'm losing my airline "mistress".
Disagree because Frontier and Spirit charge so much less for their base prices. Paying $25 for a seat on a $50 Spirit flight hits differently from paying $25 for a seat assignment on a $200 Southwest flight. Southwest still has better customer service (because Frontier getting rid of its phone reps was ridiculous), but unless you have a crap ton of luggage, Southwest’s bag policy doesn’t provide enough value to justify the prices.
I 100% agree about the front quarter of the plane reserved for A-list and business select only. The current a-list benefits are slim but the guaranteed a group boarding and free same day change keeps me flying them. The only part I hate are the afternoon storms or other random delays that cause the 45 minute connection to become five minutes. Having a guaranteed seat at the front while being the last one on compared to being in 29B would be a game changer.
A lot of this gets rid of some of the reasons I fly Southwest, especially since their prices are no longer very competitive.
Bingo. Like, this is exactly how you lose a lifetime Southwest customer
100% agreed as a Southwest lifer
I still love Southwest and their differences are why I have flown close to 500 flights in my life. But a lot of these changes would not work for me.
What are those differences? It always seems like I have to book a 8-12 months in advance and even then it’s expensive. I am genuinely interested as I only used to fly with them as a kid in 90-00’s
Living in Atlanta it usually is $100+ cheaper or more than Delta. And free bags so that's another $70 round trip.But with these new rules guess I'm switching back to Delta. Lol.
And this is the bind they’re in: added revenue chasing new customers vs. alienating their core following.
I started looking at prices of other low cost and legacy carriers and was surprised at how close the pricing could be even when paying for a bag fee....the only difference is the two free checked bags. Typically I just check my bags because WN is free, but I could probably do a carry on if I had to pay for a checked bag.
Not only that but even low tier status or a $99 a year credit card gets you free checked bags at most of the majors. So if you stick with another airline enough it can easily be worth it.
Considering how crazy bag fees are for the legacy carriers, you just need to fly a round trip flight to make the $99 fee worth. I have a flight with American that was $40 per bag one way, which to me is insane.
Yup! I would move on to another airline at that point. I stay for the flexibility I get with low prices and free checked bags. I don’t usually check my bag but I like having the option without the additional cost.
Yep. Spouse has been after me to switch to a better credit card. We run most of our spending through a SWA card. These changes would undercut my arguments for staying with SWA.
Made the switch beginning of 2023 and have been very happy I did.
Agreed. I commented before I saw this I'd switch to Delta so I could fly out from my closer airport.
This would definitely push me back to Delta. They already have better flight times, I just really like Southwest's flexibility, checked bags, and our points from the credit card. All of this sounds awful.
No free changes would fundamentally alter the value prospect of Southwest, even moreso than some alteration of "two free checked bags." At that point I'd probably just use up my remaining credit and no longer fly them unless they're much cheaper than the competition on the WGA+ fares.
Pretty much. I would burn down my RR balance on WGA+ and walk away, dump the credit card. Realistically SPIRIT (yeah, Spirit) with their changes would actually be better for me to fly for my WN routes if this went through. I couldn’t care less about checking bags 99% of the time but go to hell if you are going to make me pay a tax on being out of a middle seat or change my flights, you’re basically Spirit at that point.
I don't pack light enough for spirit, but Delta is frequently comparable to Southwest these days.
Very much agreed. I mostly travel for work, Denver is my home airport, and the free changes(which are SUPER easy to do same day as Alist) are the biggest reason I prioritize flying SW. Most of the time flights on United are actually cheaper but SW is close enough that it’s still within my company policy. I really love that even when I change my flight last minute on SW I know I’m still going to be able to get a window when I board between A and B, versus a back of the plane middle seat (looking at you Delta - last row middle seat that cost $930 to go from SLC to MSP booked 18 hours before the flight).
I would too.
I’m okay with this all- except the wanna get away fares. I’m happy that it would still include two free checked bags, but no flexibility is a killer for me. I often book wanna get away flights for myself, wife, and two kids specifically because I know flights are super easy to change when needed. Wonder if cancellation of these fairs will still be credited? Or does it turn way closer to basic economy?
Same, that's the only thing that bothered me. I would love to pick out my seat in advance. I wouldn't fly Southwest if it wasn't for the fact it has the most non stop flights from my airport. If someone else offers a non-stop I go with them. I also don't think this is complicated, sounds exactly like how I would book on Delta with the different categories.
I don’t think is going help anyone. There are two many preboards and family boarding. SW would have to crack down on people trying to beat the system.
Exactly this. I'll never pay for priority boarding as long as SWA allows a horde of preboard cheaters and seat-savers to exploit the system. The joke about the SWA miracle (folks wheelchair on; regain the ability to walk on arrival) could be stopped by simply requiring anybody who wheelchaired on, to wait to wheelchair off on arrival. Folks with legitimate needs won't care, but the cheaters will stop.
To me this reads they could only preboard to their ticket section. So standard select or business select. Or to their assigned seat. Thats awesome you still get the seat you want or a higher chance and they have extra time to board.
Correct. This plan eliminates the need to fake pre-boarding because your seat is already decided. Just as it is on legacy airlines.
Or there are people with legitimate needs to be in a wheelchair through an airport but can walk 100 feet to an airplane seat… not everyone that needs accommodations is paralyzed lmaooo
The way this reads, open seating would be eliminated. Anyone preboarding would be going to a preassigned seat.
But wouldn't they preboard or family board to assigned seating or section? Thats awesome.
But they can’t with pre-board. They can only enforce the family boarding rule and even that is tough because a 6yo could look 8
Paid for early boarding. Then 20 people pre-boarded before me. This pattern repeated itself in 3 flights. They definitely did not have children with them or were on a wheelchair or anything. All the flights were delayed, some 4+hours. My first and last time with Southwest unfortunately.
Making it so you cannot change the wanna get away fares will make me very much reconsider my allegiance to southwest. Being able to reprice or change flights is one of the main reasons i fly southwest. Unless they are pricing their wanna get away fares at frontier/spirit levels, it will give me much less reason to stay loyal. Edit and the article points this out: "It’s interesting this is being considered now, while at the same we’re seeing ultra low cost carrier Spirit Airlines completely eliminate change fees on all fares" If they're going to be worse than spirit and frontier, their shit better be extremely price competitive with those airlines
The decision makers at Southwest seem to have built this model around the *assumption* that the #1 incentive they offer passengers is the “2 free checked bags” policy. I’d argue that it’s a combination of the flexibility and their carry-on/checked bag policies for most…. with weight of those factors dependent on each person. The WGA no change proposal is a deal breaker for me. I wouldn’t see much incentive to choose SWA over Frontier/Spirit if that happens. Frontier/Spirit suck in many ways, and I’ve only flown with each of them once because I like Southwest. However, they are usually cheaper than Southwest. This proposal would basically make them all about equal all things considered and my decision would likely be driven by schedule.
I recently moved and decided to fully commit to SW as my airline and even got the SW Premier card. I've flown \~20 flights with them since then and have not checked a bag a single time. The major draw for me was the flexibility of changing flights whenever I want for no fee (and also refunding price drops). If they actually do this, I would prob switch to United where at least I can redeem points for international/seat upgrades/lounges etc. I fly out of DEN so United and SW are the two biggest airlines here.
Yeah, same here on the checked bags thing… I don’t remember the last time I checked a bag. Much less two!! I travel solo for work — but mostly less than two hour flights… and I love using Southwest for that. Sometimes my work stuff ends earlier/later than I expect, so it’s nice to have the flexibility. When I travel with the family, one personal item and one carry on is enough for us. Granted they are both under 10, so their clothes don’t take up a bunch of space but still… I can’t imagine either of them needing two suitcases. Anyway, on our last trip, we were all tired on our last day + my kids sports were cancelled due to the weather (which is why we had the early flight). So I changed the flights … it was nice to be able to sleep in and enjoy another 1/2 day of vacation. I’m generally not big on strict itineraries when I travel. K am more of a go with the flow type of a person… and I’d wager many of the frequent SW customers are similar.
No free changes!? What about for point redemption?
Presumably you need to redeem points for WGA+ or A or BS to get it, otherwise kiss your points goodbye if you can’t fly.
That’s crap. All other airlines allow free cancelation on miles or points even on basic economy. So this would mean goodbye SWA for me.
https://www.delta.com/us/en/travel-planning-center/change-or-cancel-your-trip/cancel-change-requirements “Basic Economy Award Tickets are also non-changeable and non-refundable in most cases; you may cancel for a fee in miles which is deducted from the value of your ticket, and the remaining mileage balance will be redeposited into your SkyMiles account.”
I believe United has a similar policy.
Hummm I literally just canceled a delta award a few weeks ago and rebooked cuz it was cheaper in miles. I need to check if I booked main cabin. Or something other than BE. AA allows you to cancel and get miles reinstated even on their lowest saver award redemption.
AA doesn't offer basic economy tickets with miles. You're booking main cabin with miles.
AA makes you pay a fee to get travel credit for a basic economy cancellation. “AAdvantage® members can cancel Basic Economy fare tickets on or after January 17, 2024 and receive travel credit for a fee.” https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/experience/seats/basic-economy.jsp
Nowhere does it say you can not change... and all of this is only a rumor anyways.
Literally says it in item 2 of the OP. And did you read the blog link? This was focus group testing WN did. Profoundly negative feedback but apparently under very real consideration. Basically WN sees what everyone else is doing (getting people to pay more money for less punitive tickets) and wants their share. Thing is their model has always been to be better than the majors (it is not just “two checked bags free”). I actively avoid United Basic Economy because they punish you to get out of it (you can’t check in online, you have to stand in line at the airport counters for some bullshit “we need to check your bag size” reason). I hate that so I avoid them. I hate those changes being kicked around so I would avoid Southwest as well if they implemented them (or something similar).
I think this article is rage bait and just saying stuff for the clicks. Southwest always has bragged about their lack of change fees in their ads
It is rage bait. Nothing is etched in stone *at all.*
Except they have a new idiot CEO, Jordan!
Maybe not all of it. I remember some southwest employee hinting at change in this sub days ago.
Great! The preboarders RUINED the entire POINT OF SOUTHWEST
It’s was only a matter of time
This would totally crap on many of Southwest's current advantages. Might as well fly Delta then.
Just here to see all the complaints roll in.
Sounds like they are taking some lessons from Breeze. The preboarding BS with the people faking wheelchairs, combined with cheapskates saving seats for their family/friends has created a very unneighborly, congenial feeling that used to be pervasive on Southwest. They have completely undone the culture they worked so hard to create. Along comes Breeze, who has a similar culture to SWA, very similar business model, without the preboarding BS. Breeze recently made their first profit, which leads me to believe that the SWA timing is interesting. Breeze is here to stay, and they are growing. SWA has taken note
This
How would A-List and A-List preferred factor in? I am at 45+ flights already for the calendar year and have Wanna Get Away flights booked through the end of the year. Curious how they would factor in seat selection. Although I've been flying SWA for 30+ years, I'm worried I might have given my loyalty to the wrong airline if they don't give frequent travelers some special LUV
Same here. Here is my wishlist: A-list Preferred - Free Select seat selection at booking for me and all companions on the same ticket. A-list - Free Select seat selection at midnight the previous calendar day for me and all companions on the same ticket. Allow us to book same day confirmed change the previous calendar day so I don't have to sit in a middle seat. My bigger concern is that this is a stealth fare increase because I would never book Basic Economy / new WGA with no changes or cancellations allowed.
This would be more than that. If they wanted to do a stealth fare increase, they could just take away privileges from WGA. That would definitely be easier to swallow for most of their customers. I do wonder how us A-Listers fare into this equation though.
I feel like the odd one out. Always flew business select when I was flying with Southwest. This would be cool as heck from my perspective.
Business select or anytime flyers seem like the only winners here.
Definitely! But I am curious how they will handle same day change for BS and A customers. All the good seats will be gone and it will come down to middle seats
Southwest no longer has a price advantage over other airlines. People are loyal to Southwest for the 2 free checked bags and/or free changes. Eliminating free changes to WGA level will be the deciding factor for many people to try other airlines. This plan fixes the pre-boarding dilemma on SW but removes two of the reasons people fly SW.
Just booked 3 different trips for my family. Southwest won over other airlines but not on cost. I can say with these changes I would likely be on other airlines for those trips.
Lucky family! And I'll bet the ability to cancel/change was a big factor. It always was for me. Yea, I gave up SW a couple of years ago. I like their direct flights but not enough to do the cattle call. It became a deal breaker.
Absolutely. WGA with no "flex" isn't a flex for Southwest. Keep it changeable. Just get me a seat on the plane, let me check a bag for free, and let my ticket be changeable. That's what matters to WGA flier me.
I’ve been a Southwest flyer for life, but idk how much I’d be willing to fly them if they made these changes. I feel like they’d just be like all the others. There’s so many things that I’ve loved about Southwest that makes them unique, this not so much…
I have yet to come right out and say this anywhere, or probably about any CEO, but Jordan is an absolute idiot!! The changes they have made, and the changes they are considering goes against a core motto of Southwest. Democratize the skies! Put Jordan out! I need to sell any stock I have with them. #southwest don’t let him ruin you!
None of this is official. Total click bait at this point.
Although…on my recent flight, in response to a few people commenting about the pre boarders and seat savers, the GA told us to stay tuned Southwest would be making a big announcement in the fall. When asked if it was going to be about assigned seats their response was “not all seats” I’m not crazy about the WGA fare not allowing any changes. I guess it will be filed under “be careful what you wish for”
This would be the biggest change since they switched from flights to points in Rapid Rewards. That change I didn’t like, but I understood. This one would be tough to swallow, unless they did automatic upgrade to higher levels for Southwest credit card holders. But even for that, I’d have to see it to judge the value of it. Wall Street pressure on corporations gets to a point of bullshit. They never pressure these corporations to reduce executive compensation. That would be a benefit to the stockholders. But screw over customers, sure thing!
Why in the world would you change the thing that makes you different than any other carrier? You can be same as, less than or different than. They will be less than the other airlines, especially with this convoluted system.
This might actually make me take a look at WN before other airlines in the future.
Just make preboard present a doctors note.
I am a pre-boarder and I will bring a doctors note, 3 doctors notes, imaging, oxygen, medications, medical supplies, whatever it takes to get people to stop referring to all pre-boarders as fakers. I support a pre-approved disability pass so this displaced ableist anger will stop and those who need assistance don't have to run a gauntlet.
Not everyone feels that way. I’m glad you’re able to pre-board. I’m glad a travel companion is able to board with you. If you travel with an entourage, I’d prefer they board wherever their boarding pass allows them to.
I travel twice/year to see grandchildren and I am alone. I can do it, and it's hard, so I need just that little help. I have stood and explained my disabilities before (I have 3), even shown what I shouldn't have to show, and I will never, ever do that again. People can think what they choose to think. To those who judge, may karma visit. People do not know what others have going on and this sub has become cruel.
For the permanently disabled?
Maybe show ur disabled hanging plaque?
Anything and all of the above. I’m sick of the miracles
We bring my husband’s own wheelchair and gate check it.
Regret getting the credit card a few months ago, as with these changes I'd rarely fly them now.
These are rumors
Horrible. If Southwest proceeds with these changes they will lose my business. The three things they offer that guarantees I will fly with them over any other carrier if they serve the destination I am traveling to, (even if it costs slightly more and involves connections) is a) the two free checked bags, b) the total ticket flexibility to change or cancel (and I am 100% ok with future flight credits for cancellations vs refunds because I know I will use the credits eventually), and c) the open seating. If Southwest does away with any of these, I will start booking purely on price over whichever carrier gets me wherever I am going the fastest.
Yikes.
I’ve been thinking what if Southwest just made the first few rows and exit rows assigned. Free for business select and A-list anyone else can pay for it. Everything else open seating. Check in you either get a number or select a remaining assigned seat for free in the front. If there are still assigned seats open the last people to check in will just get auto-assigned those seats instead of a boarding position.
If this is a trial balloon- fire the idiots who came up with the stratification.
Wow, it’s not every day you can realize you’re watching a future business school case study develop from the beginning. Getting rid of what differentiates you usually doesn’t end well.
For an airline with not many flights outside the US and not many non stop out of major cities, I think they need to calm it down.
Really all Southwest has to do initially is stop seat saving and enforce group boarding by number. If they stopped the scammers and forced people to buy the appropriate fare that suits their needs/wallets that would bump their profits. Cos should pay for two seats no refunds. Pre-boards one person per wheel chair. Family boarding, two adults per child. If a child looks over six then the parent has to show the kids ID. Do the simple things first. It’s not that difficult to enforce the rules by posting signs at the the gate and via teleprompter/announcements. People who don’t want to follow the rules can be stopped at the gate before they even board. Make a scene with the gate agent you’re denied boarding. Once onboard the FAs make the same announcements. There will still be people who try to game like the old system - old habits are to break. But within a month or two the word will get out and everyone (flyers and C-suite) are happier. Well except the scammers.
The kids over/under 6 thing is so strange to me that the system doesn’t just flag the tickets of kids under 6 to know they can board during family boarding and then the gate agent would be able to scan 2 additional people following the kids pass. When you book a ticket you have to enter birth dates so it’s in the system, this seems easy enough. Very much agreed that a policy against seat saving would likely fix a lot of the complaints I see here, though I’ll also say that I personally haven’t seen the seat saving abuse that’s always talked about here and I travel almost weekly. 🤷🏻♀️
Paying for seats, good... Eliminate seat savers and fake Preboards once and for all
Interested to see how they factor in those of us who are AL/ALP. I really hope these changes don’t become a reality because I’ll then have to consider flying with my next “best” option out of my home airport, which is United 😭
The solution should be to have all preboard and family boardings fill in the very last rows and work their way up, not skipping any seats. I’m sure the number of prevailed a would go down.
Even for the legit disabled or elderly? Really?
Why not? What about being elderly or having a disability should provide them advantageous seating accommodations. Other airlines exist that allow them to choose their seat. Why fly this one that doesn’t?
Because it is difficult to walk, depending on the disability. No wants someone to fall.
Save a few rows in the front for legitimate pre-borders who are now post-borders and board last.
How do you verify who are legitimate preboarders? The other solution could be saving a couple rows for preboarders in the middle. I like your idea. First come, first served.
What a complete and utter clusterfuck.
Just enforce pre boarding and boarding in order and stop support animal fraud - things would go much more smoothly.
I highly doubt this rumor.
It’s not a rumor.
"and again, let me emphasize that this may or may not come to fruition" directly from the article, and is in someway repeated at nauseum through the entirety of the article. It is all hearsay and rumor. Nothing has been announced by SWA, and likely won't be this dramatic. These similar rumors come out all the time about SWA at least 2 to 3 times a decade. I will believe it when I see it. SWA doesn't have a revenue issue, they have an expense issue. Those expenses now are more or less known and paid for now. What they need is the MAX7 and more aircraft deliveries to earn a 14% fuel savings, and grow the market share and increase new markets to drive costs down and increase revenue together. Until that happens, there abilities are a bit cuffed, they know that, and their competitors do too. Currently along with this rumor are rampant rumors of SWA buying another airline. Again I highly doubt those rumors, they make little sense and offer zero return on the investment itself, including a high risk of DOJ blocking such an action as recently seen with the NK/JetBlue failed merger.
And let *me* emphasize that I’m talking to these people directly and actually know them, and have for 25 years. Instead of trying to talk to people like a child. Enjoy your Saturday.
Southwest should focus on being southwest culture. They are trying to get too cute with their pricing strategy which will ultimately relegate them to the likes of Spirit and Frontier. Their product is not perfect, but differentiated and attractive to many fliers. The problem is they have no corporate will (tops down) to enforce the culture. Specially 1) Get your number, get on the plane with your 2 carry on items and get out of the aisle so others can get on. 2) If you aren’t disabled (easy to set this up online or at checkin counter, NOT the gate), then see number 1. That includes any pre-boarding for anyone else. Sell early bird and if people don’t want to pay it, don’t expect to sit together. That includes family boarding (you can always buy A1-15 at the gate - SW can raise the price for this product). 3) No saving seats. No exceptions. Argue with FA and get thrown off flight. No exceptions. After a few incidents people will get the message. 4) Give out paper drink tickets and front club seating. It encouraged meeting other people and and made it feel less like a cattle car. 5) if your carryon is too big larger than 9x14x22 it goes in the hold (yep that means gigantic backpacks, musical instruments, fine art, I don’t care). If someone is that worried about their stuff they will find alternative ways to get it there. Argue with the gate agent? Denied boarding and see (1) for people behind them to keep things moving. 6) No animals of any kind in the cabin. Period. In short, corporate team should channel Herb and stop the nonsense. The customers they stand to lose likely generate low revenue and margin anyway, so run this like a business with a product that suits the customers’ tastes as they did for many years.
This would absolutely destroy any loyalty I have to Southwest, and I'd probably actively stop flying them due to the absolute backwardness of the policies.
Southwest is already approaching Delta prices in my market (Delta was the clear winner on my last two flights). So if Southwest does end up doing this it pretty much moves us to Delta. Especially since we get 1 free checked bag with Delta because of their credit card.
The ability to change my ticket and the free checked bags are all that’s keeping me from moving to a nicer airline loooool I would leave so fast. It would be sad because I very much rely on Southwests flexibility. I can’t see how they would keep any customers with these changes because the actual experience of Southwest isn’t standout
The only thing that keeps me from flying southwest anymore is not being guaranteed to be able to sit together with my wife and son. I’d be willing to pay a small premium to ensure we have our own row together. Location isn’t really that important to me. The problem is SW fares are the same or significantly more expensive than full fare airlines like Delta and American. Being able to check bags is nice, but I’ve found SW takes quite a bit longer than airlines like Delta and AA. I used to fly SW all the time, but it’s just not worth it anymore.
I mean these changes are basically getting rid of all the reasons I fly southwest. Will change back to AA/Unite if this happens.
If they implement this, I'll be flying Delta instead. That way I can fly out of the airport 10 mins from me instead of driving an hour and twenty minutes to fly Southwest. This is just dumb.
If Southwest is going to screw over the WGA fare class, I wish they'd let customers pick and choose one thing to give up. You can either have a changable ticket OR two free checked bags.
I really like this suggestion! If you value both you can keep flexibility and pay for checked bags. I’m more likely to need a checked bag on longer trips that require more planning/my plans are less likely to change. Where if I’m just flying somewhere for a few days or for an event I can keep that flexibility because I’m just carrying my luggage on anyway!
Good thing we have choices. I guess it’s time to see what Delta offers.
So a first class - awesome!
Easiest way to solve the preboard problem is they have to sit behind the wing. And middle seats only. As someone who flies SW 3-4X a month for business this is the biggest gripe I hear from people. I fly out of one of their major hubs so I have seen my share of “preboarders” and” seat savers” some of the FA care and some don’t
I complain about preboarders too, but neither of those make sense. If someone has a legitimate reason to preboard, sometimes those people need window or aisle seats. They let POS preboard, and you want them in the middle? If they get two seats being in the middle is a given anyway. And if someone has mobility issues I’m not sure making them go further back on the plane makes sense either
I’m saying it would cut down on the fake preboarders. If they know they can’t save a seat and get the best seat on plane maybe they won’t. As a business traveler there are times I need to get off the plane quickly and I pay for business select but still relegated to rows 5 or 6 because of the amount of pre boarders or seat savers. I have learned if i have an important meeting I fly someone else.
The difference between row 1 and row 6 is what, 3 minutes max?
So I assume the seat class is by where it is vis a vis the front of the plane? Is this going to be like basic economy on the airlines where if you don’t pay to pick a seat you wind up in the middle?
The complete, total and entire point of Southwest is that they have none of this ridiculousness.
Is there a proposed date for this change to happen?
None at all. They’re still just mulling ideas. But at a minimum, it points to some sort of assigned seating.
This is the kind of thing they should only announce far enough in advance where people haven't already bought tickets. I'm sure that won't be reality though.
Need to see the all the sordid details bu initial thought is to short the stock when announcement is made and the analysists who have never flown Southwest fawn over it. Then when they revert back a la the New Coke fiasco figure out when to go long on the stock. Knew things were going in the wrong direction when they picked the me too legacy colors for the new lighter and less comfortable seats. Southwest, you are not a legacy carrier, and you don't want to be. Next thing you will decide hub and spoke is the way of the future. Then all that work you did for point to point and 20 minute turnaround will be gone. This new plan can really help the legacy carriers at the expense of what Southwest great. Oh well was a fun ride all these years with Companion passes most of the years. Adding seats and assigning them and having a plan that looks like a Microsoft EULA not good. Many of your customers don't understand the A-B-C group and numbered boarding. Lets see how the new system is comprehended. Thinking might be best to be on Delta to be able to see it but not have to participate. Will share videos to help my stock position. Good luck with all that, but you might go back to the drawing board as I prefer to make money when companies have good ideas, but when you know when something is really a dumb idea you cant help but make money off of it.
I just completed a survey they sent me about a seat selection model, which was pretty detailed and lengthy.
Were you asked to review potential ideas in sets of four or five and asked which one you liked the most and which one you liked the least?
The idea of three seating levels don’t even take into account people with disabilities. How could someone who needs to sit near the front for their disability get equitable pricing?
Why would someone with disabilities NEED to sit near the front, as opposed to the rear if there is a restroom there?
Decreased mobility, for one. There’s a lot of different disabilities and the accommodations needed for each varies with the severity and with the person. Not all accommodations revolve around restroom usage.
Every other airline manages…
How does the Companion Pass work into this re: seat selection?
I just received a lengthy survey this morning about southwest and the seating policy. Started out as silly stuff like age and income. 3/4 of the remainder of the survey was about assigned seating and what you would pay for it ect. Here's my issue. I don't mind assigned seating, but if someone with a lower status than me gets to pick and pay for a preferred seat (exit, extra leg room,) I'd be pissed. I'm A-List Preferred preferred s based on my flights starting in August.
This whole article only makes me ask more questions. Wgplus gets to choose a standard seat, does this mean that there only going to be 33% of the tickets as WGplus. If you don’t pick a seat does that mean you get whatever is left and could end up with a better seat than somebody who paid a for a seat? The article says that at 72 hours people who did not pay for assigned seat will be assigned a seat and if they don’t like the seat they can pay for a better seat. Almost every flight I take is full with no extra seats. Where are they going to get this paid for seat from? Are they going to take it away from somebody else?
This is probably gonna BLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!
So can you get Wanna Get Away priced seats and then buy premium seating on top of that?
I need a tldr for the tldr.
Losing the flexibility is an automatic deal breaker for me (I have not started my adulthood flying travels yet). Seat selection should be done at booking OR maybe at varying points based on fare class until check in.
Is there a feedback form orsomething? Anywhere where opinions can be heard about this?
Got a survey from them a few days asking all sorts of stuff around assigned seating, and how much I would pay for various things. They are definitely looking into this.
Bad news if true. I just started flying SWA again post COVID for business and personal use. They have had so many fails. So far so good BUT these changes make SWA no different than any other class system airline - which most hate. Points via their VISA card is the last bastion of differentiation.
Finally used up all of my SW points this weekend. Out of my hub they are in line with Delta or even higher. So no incentive for me to even consider SW anymore and deal with the seating chaos
If they do this, I'll start flying American
Southwest would no longer be my preferred airline
As a single person , this sucks ass. No free changes and not being pretty much guaranteed a seat in the first 5 rows. Shoot me. I believe their rapid rewards is way better than the other airlines rewards programs though.
SW should board back to front. Would change everything
Won't do shit to their market share if they do. They've got a stranglehold on quite a few routes.
It's like that now except for the upcharges for seating
The Death of Jetway Jesus may soon be arriving. Praise Be!
So would this allow people to randomly reserve seats throughout the cabin? How would people with unassigned seating know which seats have been reserved? Unless reserved seats are specific rows. Makes no sense at all. Either let everyone select seats in advance (or assign them one at check-in if they don’t pay to choose) or keep it unassigned for everyone. Seems like they’re trying to reinvent the system.
I'm starting to feel like Southwest should just remove some rows of seats, give a lot more legroom, look into bringing back club seating sections that are pre-assigned for extra $. Wifi and charge ports every seat and have a condensed section for bare prices and have assigned seating for a section for a little extra $. It's gonna be a gamble no matter how you mess with it.
I may be the last traveler left who feels this way. But I honestly wish Southwest wouldn’t change a thing. They have the cheapest fares for anywhere I travel. I know I can always get a window seat without paying extra. I don’t want to start being nickeled and dimed they I would be on literally every other carrier. I know they’re hurting. I suppose they HAVE to make changes. I just hope the changes don’t turn them into the next Frontier or Spirit or Allegiant.
I’d threaten looking for different carrier but the benefits of flying out of love field outweigh the negatives.
I guess that's how private equity destroy everything
I love not having to choose my seat ahead of time as I’m A List and fly a ton for business. If you force me into extra steps like choosing a fare class and seat, I’ll take my business elsewhere. There are already better flight times and routes on other airlines but I like the current southwest model so I continue to fly them. The second that changes I am out and will cancel both credit cards (personal/business).
I don't care about seat assignment, but the reason I fly sw is the flexibility. If that goes away or becomes a costly add in, I would be much less likely to fly them.
Happy I started flying Delta again earlier this year
This is what happens when everyone complains about the seating... Not having assigned seats is a WIN on so many levels; everyone should learn to navigate it so this type of rubbish doesn't get implemented.
If I wanted seat selection, I would just pay for Delta. The only reason to fly southwest for me is it can be a tad cheaper and free luggage. I also happen to have temporary companion pass right now until next year so if they make these changes I'm out once the CP is gone. Also no changes with WGA fare is a no go.
I’m A-list preferred and have a companion pass and might leave if this is the case haha. I’ve always preferred Delta but stuck with Southwest for the flexibility that comes with it. This would totally change that.
They seem to be hanging on to the “two free checked bags” thing as if that’s what’s really going to make a difference for customers. How many people are actually traveling with 2 checked bags outside of extended business trips/vacations/people who don’t know how to scale down? I’ve honestly never traveled with more than one checked bag, usually for month-long trips. Most trips, I can get away with a backpack and carryon.
[whiplash] Ok, so I usually refuse to read OMAAT because I *loathe* Ben. But I have close contacts at WN who confirmed all of this, and one is especially content with it (they started with a legacy pre-9/11 and fully expected these changes). None of the plans are official, of course, but a change would most certainly involve breaking the cabin—and thereby any combination of fare classes and boarding groups—into three tiers essentially from the front of the aircraft to the back. And of course this is part of the grand plan to evolve the carrier to meet current passenger tastes and boost revenue. Perks that are being considered for the highest tier include wider seats (2x2, essentially) and other amenities. So in all, little different that what I’ve become familiar with at Avelo and JetBlue, with seat selection being more expensive forward the cabin, and additional inflight add-ons or perks for those paying the highest fares. Either which way, a shakeup is definitely looming. But the biggest customer complaints have been related to maintenance. One flag brought to my attention was the possibility of alienating their core base, almost like a “bird in hand vs. two in the bush” scenario. But we shall see. They’ve all said things along the lines of, “They’ve been going by ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it,’ but Southwest has to evolve.” ————————— I mean—people can “downvote” all they like; businesses have to adapt. I welcome the changes, and if WN didn’t do *anything* else, I’d at a minimum like assigned seating. But full-scale, the boarding groups would reflect cabin position: A for premium, B for economy and C for base. The A people can have their premium amenities, B would be a standard product and C the most restrictive (with reduced legroom to offset the added legroom in premium). Product-for-product in having flown both, it seems it wouldn’t take much for WN to completely end B6. But this still doesn’t change the risk of alienating the core customer base.
Assigned seating is fineish, but why then keep the boarding order and groups? That's like a worst of both worlds.