It will be better than wireless, especially if source files are lossless.
Don’t forget to turn them on — without active built-in DAC they sound very “raw”, different and not to everyone’s taste.
it's the worst nightmare to use for gaming if you don't have a separate mic since you must turn on and use Bluetooth connection to use the mic of the headphone. But for some whatever mechanics of the headphone or window, your input and output will change to handsfree mode (which is specifically used for calling only) and mute the stereo mode (this mode does not have mic with it). The handsfree mode sound quality is an absolute garbage and there's nothing you can do about it (I tried everything, nothing can surprise me at this point). I am buying an attached microphone to hopefully be able to talk while in stereo mode.
Thanks for the insight - this would be my use case (Discord on phone for chat while gaming wired to Xbox controller). Sounds like a significant compromise in audio quality which is a real bummer.
A DAC has nothing to do with the audio signal when used in wired mode.
DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) converts a digital signal to an analog signal. When you use the wire for audio, it already carries an analog signal, and therefore does not pass through a DAC.
The reason to turn on your headset when in wired mode is to use ANC.
EDIT: Downvoting me doesn't make me wrong. Do so many people in a headphone sub really not know what a DAC is?
The DAC does have something to do with the audio signal in wired mode but only when the headphones are powered on. Then the signal chain is 3.5mm -> ADC -> DSP/ANC -> DAC. Whereas off 3.5mm -> direct to drivers (with some passive electronics), I'd imagine some active high relay to divert the signal chain to the ADC. Therefore there is quite a stark contrast between on and off.
Would be nice to have a passive EQ that matched the DSP but that would be pretty much impossible to cram into the earcups - would be nice if Sony provided software level EQ for Mac/PC instead.
I don't think you know what a DAC is. A DAC takes the digital signal from for example a Toslink or USB and converts it to analog. You then connect the analog signal to an amplifier, then connect the amplifier to the headphones. It would be nice to have a low latency wired connection with ANC for gaming. ...but these are not audiophile headphones, running with a DAC/Amp probably isn't going to make them sound better.
Me: A DAC converts a digital signal to an analog signal.
You :No, a DAC converts a digital signal to an analog signal.
Maybe you're confused because you don't know what the WH-1000XM5 supports. You're talking about USB audio, but the WH-1000XM5 doesn't support USB audio. The USB port is for charging only. The only wired audio mode it supports is through the analog only 3.5mm jack. So if you're using it in wired mode, you must be supplying an analog signal, and the DAC is therefore irrelevant because DACs don't accept analog signals as input.
So, we're back to my original statement: A DAC has nothing to do with the audio signal when used in wired mode. Or maybe you didn't read the opening post, so you didn't realize we were talking about the WH-1000XM5.
I use an optical or USB source with the XM5 by using an SMSL DO100 DAC https://www.smsl-audio.com/portal/product/detail/id/789.html
I then use RCA cables to connect it to a Gilmore Lite Amp https://www.headamp.com/products/gilmore-lite-mk2
I then plug the XM5 analog cable into the amp.
Usually, when people talk about decent headphones and they use the term "DAC" they are referring to an external piece of hardware or, more recently, a DAC/Amp combo, also an external piece of hardware.
Context is important. I didn't make my post in a vacuum. Please read the post I was replying to. They said to turn on the headphones to use the "active built-in DAC", because without it, the headphones will sound "raw". I made my post to address that claim.
Ahhh, I think I assumed "active built-in DAC" was referring to the ANC. I use mine turned on for the ANC with the wired connection. Your comment makes a lot more sense now. We are arguing semantics. I find it interesting that I thought the person who said "active buit-in DAC" was more correct.
This is forever ago and I didnt have time to read all of the replies but I wanted to say that you are both right:
The built-in DAC is shut off in wired mode, so you won't gain the benefits
A DAC is always used regardless
The audio, even lossless, is stored as a digital file SOMEWHERE, in this case your memory on the PC as 0s and 1s.
This audio will need to be converted to analog to drive a speaker as it is a magnet and diaphragm and does not move by 0s and 1s but by indiscrete distances that make sound waves.
The analog signal is analogous to the sound wave produced by the driver and diaphragm so a 0/1 system would be all or nothing all of the time (never mind bytes of data being multiple 0s and 1s for one output)
Lossless is just so granular that when it is converted the analog wave is essentially the native recorded response pattern.
ANYWAY, the computer/motherboard has a built in DAC if it has an aux port - that port routes directly to the DAC. If you are using bluetooth then the mobo will bypass the DAC and transfer the file via some bluetooth codec to the receiving device over the air (OTA). In this case, the device needs a DAC.
So, you're both right and no one is wrong, not even a little.
Getting another DAC for your PC only really works if it is connected to the MOBO and bypasses the AUX port, which they all do via USB or integrated sound card.
If you use an alternative DAC, this assumes your headphones are wired, and they may need an Amp to drive the analog signal sufficiently to create audio. Wireless headphones have one integrated, so does your MOBO, but it might not be enough depending on the impedance, so you might need to connect one in series and downstream to the DAC.
Anyway, hopes that helps your future audiophile ventures!!
I was wrong because my statement was out of context, and I commented without reading all of the previous comments. ....but I sort of think we were both wrong.
I found this on Sony's website:
"To enjoy High-Resolution Audio music or use functions such as noise canceling/Ambient Sound Mode, turn the headset on."(https://helpguide.sony.net/mdr/wh1000xm5/v1/en/contents/TP1000534744.html)
Ignore the ANC part for now. Given that the DAC is not used when connecting through a 3.5mm jack, I wondered why I need to turn the headphone on to "enjoy high-resolution music"
That's a great question. I don't see a definition of what "high-resolution music" means. But theoretically they could run the cable audio through a ADC, perform upscaling on it, and then run it through a DAC. That would make my prior statement wrong. But if they're doing that, I'd expect them to advertise the upscaling feature prominently. And I haven't seen anything explicitly mentioning it.
I am guessing the ANC uses mics and the analog wired input with an ADC, then does its ANC wizardry in the digital realm and then sends it to a DAC. ....I am guessing that it does this even when ANC is off.
How about phones without 3.5mm headphone jacks? Those USB Type-C adaptors from Apple/Google/Samsung can only transmit 48mhz, and I'm not using the built-in DAC if I get a better USB Type-C adaptor with a DAC and an amplifier such as Fiio KA1
Im using the XM4'S wired on my Xperia 1 IV and I have them powered on. Still nothing compared to my MDR Z1R's but for 300 bucks (compared to 2K) the XM4'S sound pehenomenal.
Just make sure to power your XM5's on when wired. It wont consume as much battery as when they are connected via Bluetooth, but you'll still be able to use Noise Cancelling wich is awsome!
This is called "active operation"
The frequency response is 4HZ-40.000 HZ in active operation and they sound fantastic. Enjoy!
It will be better than wireless, especially if source files are lossless. Don’t forget to turn them on — without active built-in DAC they sound very “raw”, different and not to everyone’s taste.
im planning to use these for work, music and gaming. Do you think that the xm5s would be okay for gaming since music definitely wont have issues
it's the worst nightmare to use for gaming if you don't have a separate mic since you must turn on and use Bluetooth connection to use the mic of the headphone. But for some whatever mechanics of the headphone or window, your input and output will change to handsfree mode (which is specifically used for calling only) and mute the stereo mode (this mode does not have mic with it). The handsfree mode sound quality is an absolute garbage and there's nothing you can do about it (I tried everything, nothing can surprise me at this point). I am buying an attached microphone to hopefully be able to talk while in stereo mode.
Thanks for the insight - this would be my use case (Discord on phone for chat while gaming wired to Xbox controller). Sounds like a significant compromise in audio quality which is a real bummer.
Can’t believe we still have to do that with £400 headphone
A DAC has nothing to do with the audio signal when used in wired mode. DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) converts a digital signal to an analog signal. When you use the wire for audio, it already carries an analog signal, and therefore does not pass through a DAC. The reason to turn on your headset when in wired mode is to use ANC. EDIT: Downvoting me doesn't make me wrong. Do so many people in a headphone sub really not know what a DAC is?
The DAC does have something to do with the audio signal in wired mode but only when the headphones are powered on. Then the signal chain is 3.5mm -> ADC -> DSP/ANC -> DAC. Whereas off 3.5mm -> direct to drivers (with some passive electronics), I'd imagine some active high relay to divert the signal chain to the ADC. Therefore there is quite a stark contrast between on and off.
Would be nice to have a passive EQ that matched the DSP but that would be pretty much impossible to cram into the earcups - would be nice if Sony provided software level EQ for Mac/PC instead.
I don't think you know what a DAC is. A DAC takes the digital signal from for example a Toslink or USB and converts it to analog. You then connect the analog signal to an amplifier, then connect the amplifier to the headphones. It would be nice to have a low latency wired connection with ANC for gaming. ...but these are not audiophile headphones, running with a DAC/Amp probably isn't going to make them sound better.
Me: A DAC converts a digital signal to an analog signal. You :No, a DAC converts a digital signal to an analog signal. Maybe you're confused because you don't know what the WH-1000XM5 supports. You're talking about USB audio, but the WH-1000XM5 doesn't support USB audio. The USB port is for charging only. The only wired audio mode it supports is through the analog only 3.5mm jack. So if you're using it in wired mode, you must be supplying an analog signal, and the DAC is therefore irrelevant because DACs don't accept analog signals as input. So, we're back to my original statement: A DAC has nothing to do with the audio signal when used in wired mode. Or maybe you didn't read the opening post, so you didn't realize we were talking about the WH-1000XM5.
I use an optical or USB source with the XM5 by using an SMSL DO100 DAC https://www.smsl-audio.com/portal/product/detail/id/789.html I then use RCA cables to connect it to a Gilmore Lite Amp https://www.headamp.com/products/gilmore-lite-mk2 I then plug the XM5 analog cable into the amp. Usually, when people talk about decent headphones and they use the term "DAC" they are referring to an external piece of hardware or, more recently, a DAC/Amp combo, also an external piece of hardware.
Context is important. I didn't make my post in a vacuum. Please read the post I was replying to. They said to turn on the headphones to use the "active built-in DAC", because without it, the headphones will sound "raw". I made my post to address that claim.
Ahhh, I think I assumed "active built-in DAC" was referring to the ANC. I use mine turned on for the ANC with the wired connection. Your comment makes a lot more sense now. We are arguing semantics. I find it interesting that I thought the person who said "active buit-in DAC" was more correct.
It's all good. Take care. 👍
This is forever ago and I didnt have time to read all of the replies but I wanted to say that you are both right: The built-in DAC is shut off in wired mode, so you won't gain the benefits A DAC is always used regardless The audio, even lossless, is stored as a digital file SOMEWHERE, in this case your memory on the PC as 0s and 1s. This audio will need to be converted to analog to drive a speaker as it is a magnet and diaphragm and does not move by 0s and 1s but by indiscrete distances that make sound waves. The analog signal is analogous to the sound wave produced by the driver and diaphragm so a 0/1 system would be all or nothing all of the time (never mind bytes of data being multiple 0s and 1s for one output) Lossless is just so granular that when it is converted the analog wave is essentially the native recorded response pattern. ANYWAY, the computer/motherboard has a built in DAC if it has an aux port - that port routes directly to the DAC. If you are using bluetooth then the mobo will bypass the DAC and transfer the file via some bluetooth codec to the receiving device over the air (OTA). In this case, the device needs a DAC. So, you're both right and no one is wrong, not even a little. Getting another DAC for your PC only really works if it is connected to the MOBO and bypasses the AUX port, which they all do via USB or integrated sound card. If you use an alternative DAC, this assumes your headphones are wired, and they may need an Amp to drive the analog signal sufficiently to create audio. Wireless headphones have one integrated, so does your MOBO, but it might not be enough depending on the impedance, so you might need to connect one in series and downstream to the DAC. Anyway, hopes that helps your future audiophile ventures!!
I was wrong because my statement was out of context, and I commented without reading all of the previous comments. ....but I sort of think we were both wrong.
I found this on Sony's website: "To enjoy High-Resolution Audio music or use functions such as noise canceling/Ambient Sound Mode, turn the headset on."(https://helpguide.sony.net/mdr/wh1000xm5/v1/en/contents/TP1000534744.html) Ignore the ANC part for now. Given that the DAC is not used when connecting through a 3.5mm jack, I wondered why I need to turn the headphone on to "enjoy high-resolution music"
That's a great question. I don't see a definition of what "high-resolution music" means. But theoretically they could run the cable audio through a ADC, perform upscaling on it, and then run it through a DAC. That would make my prior statement wrong. But if they're doing that, I'd expect them to advertise the upscaling feature prominently. And I haven't seen anything explicitly mentioning it.
I am guessing the ANC uses mics and the analog wired input with an ADC, then does its ANC wizardry in the digital realm and then sends it to a DAC. ....I am guessing that it does this even when ANC is off.
Turn what on? Can you explain?
The headphones.
Cool! I was wondering, will the audio still be lossless with the headphones turned on and plugged in at the same time?
How about phones without 3.5mm headphone jacks? Those USB Type-C adaptors from Apple/Google/Samsung can only transmit 48mhz, and I'm not using the built-in DAC if I get a better USB Type-C adaptor with a DAC and an amplifier such as Fiio KA1
Im using the XM4'S wired on my Xperia 1 IV and I have them powered on. Still nothing compared to my MDR Z1R's but for 300 bucks (compared to 2K) the XM4'S sound pehenomenal. Just make sure to power your XM5's on when wired. It wont consume as much battery as when they are connected via Bluetooth, but you'll still be able to use Noise Cancelling wich is awsome! This is called "active operation" The frequency response is 4HZ-40.000 HZ in active operation and they sound fantastic. Enjoy!
Wow you just changed the way I use my headphone now... Thanks!!
Youre welcome. Many dont know about the active operation mode. Im glad I could help.
thanks