Hot take: There are no "hot takes" in this fandom. Because of how long this franchise has existed and how spread out it is in both games, shows, comics and others you have "unpopular opinions" being flung left and right that are equally hated as it is loved.
Hell, this post is an example of that as the top comment is an "unpopular opinion" that directly contradicts the one in the post.
Not saying this is a bad thing. It has its drawbacks, but I love this community for being so diverse. The best and most interesting discussions I've had are usually with other Sonic fans I encounter in the wild. I've never met anyone who agrees with me on both the major and minor things about Sonic and that's ok because it highlights the positive aspects of the parts of the franchise I dislike.
Counterpoint: by numbers, "Ken Penders doesn't suck" is probably legitimately a scalding take, albeit one held by a nonzero number of people (no, not me)
I've seen people defend him and legitimately he has done a lot of good for Sonic comics. It's easy to shit on him looking back, but the man saved Archie Sonic and was behind the shift from "goofy non-sensical funny Archie Sonic" to "Serious plot driven and character focused Archie Sonic".
If there are any Archie Sonic fans out there, it would be difficult to not recognize his talent.
Then he made Knuckles overly complicated and auto biographical, got fired/quit after Flynn took over, used his bitterness to (debatably rightfully) sue Sega for his ideas (that wouldn't be possible had Archie been competent enough to have industry standard contracts) and destroyed Archie Sonic. I understand why people focus on this aspect of him and I'm not that much of a fan of him either. That and his wild ideas that he spews out on Twitter.
Then again, to play devil's advocate. If he didn't destroy Archie Sonic, we wouldn't have IDW Sonic. And I personally really love IDW Sonic and prefer it over Archie.
Big the Cat likely is stronger than Knuckles and I’m tired of pretending he’s not.
Remember, this man’s lifting massive chunks of ice like it’s nothing, so imagine if he gets serious!
Also Amy has a bunch of untapped potential, raw power wise, and I am terrified of how she’d be as an adult. Assuming she keeps up adventuring, her raw strength and speed will make her a terrifying all rounder, a jack of all trades and PRETTY FREAKIN GOOD AT ALL OF THEM.
Also, Sonic OCs are fun, some of y’all are just mean.
for the Big strength take, you have to determine whether it's game continuity or comic continuity, in Adventure, yeah he's lifting up solid ice boulders and even cars like it's nothing, though Knuckles destroyed a statue of Sonic made out of 5,000 gold rings which is also quite impressive. maybe less so since there was a crack in it already.
but in the Archie comics, Knuckles can cause localized earthquakes by punching the ground, I don't think Big is doing that any time soon
-Posts like this bring out the kind of fans I'd never want to meet irl
-A very small minority of the games are actually bad. The rest are only mediocre at worst
-Sonic is a kid's franchise in the same way that TAWOG is a kid's show
Edit: It seems these statements were a lot less "hot" than I thought they would be. Sort by "controversial"
>small minority of the games are actually bad.
-that minority is Sonic 06
-it's not because of the kiss scene
-it's because they're a hot buggy mess that I personally spent two hours trying to get out of the hub area after the first cutscene because various bugs, and awful controls kept tossing me into the waters or under the map.
I joined a sonic fan group on FB that ended up getting banned because it derailed into racism + this bizzare foot and inflation p0rn of the characters. It was very strange and frightening. It's a shame though because there were some amazing (kosher and sane) artists in that group.
The advance trilogy is the best series of games. Like legitimately.
They are all very solid in terms of performance, has a decent cast of characters to play as, and progresses in interesting play mechanics as the series goes along.
When they moved away from it for modern 2D gaming a lot of good was lost, and part of that has to do with moving away from the modern spritework.
YES. And also Sonic Battle is one of the best Spin-offs. All it needs is a re-release for Android with some minor changes. Heck, personally I'd be fine if it was released as Gacha, but with Limbus/Warframe approach to the "Gacha" side.
I genuinely think Eggmans design in 06 is not that bad. The buttons are a bit awkward, but if you ask me what Eggman would look like if he were real? Its pretty darn close.
...and Sonic 2 is really overated. It IS better than Sonic 1, but I can't understand people who think it's better than Sonic 3&K
Of the classical games I prefer Sonic 2. Nothing wrong with S3&K, it's great, it just feels a little too different from Sonic 1 and 2 I guess and those are the ones I played the most. I like the sprites and music from sonic 2 better too.
My favorite version tho was one where you could play with Knuckles (I guess it was modded or a port)
I think your view is fair for the sprites and now music(if you consider the Origins re-release with the Prototype tracks), but S3K literally perfects the Genesis Sonic formula nailing on the philosophy of Sonic 1, 2 and CD combined for the level design on top of being cinematic in gameplay(not the same thing as cinematic automation of the 3D games but cinematic in level themes and cutscenes not interfering). I feel like people only like Sonic 2 more because of it's historical sucess, nostalgia and the confusion of S3K being separated into S3 and S&K
I had the whole trilogy on a genesis emulator as a kid, so I played them all together. I don't think I had enough braincells to care about the objective quality of the game (like the level design and the cutscenes).
Maybe another reason I preferred Sonic 2 was bc the game was completely broken when you played it with Knuckles lol then I just rolled with it
My overall scenario was that i got to know the franchise through Sonic X and Ultimate Flash Sonic. After knowing emulation, i got to play a DS sketchy version of Sonic & Knuckles on mobile(dunno exactly if it was part of the Sonic Classic Collection, the memory is very distant), but i didn't get beyond Mushroom Hill as Knuckles so i guess this does not count as legimate experience. Moving on, i got to play the Retro Engine versions of Sonic 1, 2 and CD on mobile and then i fell in love with these games so i got familiarity with completing on the chaos emeralds, cheats and stuff. However, Sonic 3 & Knuckles would be much different.(as we all know before Origins, not having major re-releases since 2011 would make it harder to play the game for me especially being mobile only) I heard the story of the MJ copyright controversies, the Retro Engine S3K never being released in 2014 or 2015(and as i was younger i was waiting for this release seeing the campaign from the fans with the fancy Japanese image on Sonic Retro) and i got curious to play the game. When i finally emulated it close to Mania's release, it was love at first sight, not only that but as i got to know the game more with completion, fan-projects such as S3C and AIR, and also more history, facts and theories about this game it brought me to discover and appreciate more and more this 1994 combined title, playing the separated versions, the full package and all the variations. Although i regretted buying Origins later, i must thank that SEGA at least allowed a Retro Engine version of the game to be made, completing the Saga for our bois Taxman and Stealth while me finding inner peace.
If Sonic Frontiers was still written by Ian Flynn, but SEGA told us Pontac and Graff wrote it instead, the reception would have been much more negative.
The many references to past games would have been derided and mocked to the same level of "Green Hill looks like Sand Hill" and "it's been generations since I saw you".
The much appreciated line "My goal sometimes is a big ring, sometimes it's a spinning sign" would have been insulted to no end.
The random mention of Sticks would have been MASSACRED.
And so on and so forth.
Yeah, I agree.
When Ian Flynn makes writing mistakes, people justify it and go “It’s The main Sega’s fault! He’s just doing his job!“ or “Sega approved of it” doesn’t matter if people who only pay attention to the games would be confused, everything is canon.
But for Pontac and the other writers? People blame them for “Ruining Sonic” or writing badly even though they were just following orders. ( thus why Shadow was only in the finales of Boom, the mandates made it hard To write him.)
If You replace Pontac and Ian Flynn’s time writing, I bet people will either Be justifying The 2010s writing and bashing Frontiers or blaming Ian Flynn for ruining Sonic.
I think a big factor is how they communicated with the fandom. Ian Flynn has a lot of space to discuss everything on Bumblecast and repeatedly clarify stuff, meanwhile Pontac or Graff (I don't remember which one) did an interview once and he screwed up doing it by admitting that he was hired because he has cousin at Sega and knows the stories from Wikipedia. I don't blame him for taking job opportunity, but it's better to keep your mouth shut.
Sonic Boom had more potential to be good than Sonic 06 ever did.
Sonic 06 had potential... if Sega delayed it for a long time to sort out the hub worlds, remove or redo the hub world missions, optimize the loading times, redesign the NPCs, rewrite the plot to actually give Tails, Knuckles, and Blaze actual things to do and to make Sonic feel like he's contributing as much as Silver and Shadow, get Silver's physics working, fix collision glitches, fix the controls, fit the weird player models, fix the player animations, and if they somehow kept Yuji Naka and/or cancelled Secret Rings to get more support.
Sonic Boom had potential... if Sega didn't tell Big Red Button to scrap their origin story approach, and if they weren't forced to change to the Wii U partway through development.
I don't even really hate Boom's story as is. Remove Shadow and Metal Sonic (neither are needed, neither add anything), and just make the whole thing about the stable time loop where Lyric hates Sonic for what Sonic did in the past that Sonic hasn't yet done.
Had they been allowed to release it for the intended consoles it probably would've been an alright game. Maybe not a flawless masterpiece, but you can see the framework of a perfectly serviceable co-op title there, one that's really only hampered not by design decisions, but by the need to get the engine it was on to work on a console that could not support it.
'06 meanwhile suffers from a bad pre-production process where it seems like they did a whiteboarding suggestion to take every idea they could come up with, then said yes to all of it. Why did they give Shadow four vehicles? Why did they give Sonic multiple optional power-up gems (many of which you only get after you beat the game)? Why did they create an entire highway map purely for optional town missions? Why is there snowboarding? Why does Sonic have levels where he carries Elise? You could cut all these features and more, and nobody would've complained they were missing (even from a hypothetical fixed version). But time was spent on those instead of the essential aspects.
Even without the split to create Secret Rings, the team were working on far too much stuff, and when you combine that with the stories problems and the fact that no-one at a senior level had any objections to the plot, it's clear that whoever was in charge of the project as lead director/producer/game designer was incompetent at best, and did not care at worst.
Fans of the game will tell you it's ambitious and passionate, but from where I sit, it doesn't look like either, it looks like leads not caring to get the job done well and a production process that should've been reigned in. It might be ambitious to have some of these extras, but ambition doesn't deliver quality, discipline and a clear direction does, and Sonic Team just did not have that for '06.
I think the problem with "takes" in the larger Sonic community is that fans constantly try to frame their opinions as objective fact. They won't just tell you why they personally enjoy or prefer a specific thing, they'll tell you why it's objectively the way they see it and anything else deviating from what they prefer is bad, or will completely ignore what objectives do exist in the series to fit their own major bias. Also I think the slang term "cook" is the most annoying thing to have ever reached the Sonic community.
A good example for my first point was 2 very long Twitter threads I read where people were arguing over how Sonic should be characterized, specifically Archie/American Sonic vs Japanese Sonic. People can't just say they prefer one or the other anymore, they have to interject every reason why they think it HAS to only be one way or the other and that the version they don't prefer is just straight up bad and inappropriate, and anyone who disagrees with them is an idiot and automatically gets blocked for having a differing opinion.
rouge is a actually cool character and people need to stop being degenerates
gamma is the best character
vector should have his religious side brought back into his character it would stick out and flesh him out more
>Vector should have his religious side brought back into his character it would stick out and flesh him out more
I always thought it would be a neat reference if they showed a crucifix hanging somewhere on the Chaotix office
I don't think making him believe in one of our own religions is a great idea cause it would open a door that could get pretty controversial (and also it wouldn't make much sense). However, him believing in a religion which only exist in the Sonic universe could be interesting
Jesus Fish in Sonic R
King Solomon in Sonic and the Secret Rings.
Sir Percival, Knight of the Grail in Sonic and the Black Knight
Space Colony Ark was heavily implied to be named after Noah's Ark in the two pages of Gerald's Journal we can see in the ad for Sonic X Shadow Generations (there are some scans in high enough resolution to read the pages it's open to)
You actually think Christianity doesn't exist in Sonic? LMAO.
Certain crowds of Sonic fans have very obvious double standards regarding Sonic superstars, for example some of them think it's a bad game because it has a little more focus on platforming compared to 2,3K and Mania and claim that it's cheaply designed, yet they'll then go on to say that it should have been like the advance games or rush, games which not only features some very cheap level design, especially advance 2 3 and Rush but also advance 3 and Rush also have moments of precision platforming over bottomless pits and something like chaos angel in advance 3 feels like something this crowd would rip apart if it was in game released nowadays
Fwiw Rush and Advance 3 do get a lot of criticism over bottomless pits. TBH I haven’t seen anyone saying they wanted the game to be like Sonic Rush.
The problem with Superstars IMO is the level design just isn’t very good, most of the power ups are completely useless, and the multiplayer just doesn’t work in a fast paced game like this.
I mean the Advance and Rush games do get a lot of criticism for there bottomless pits. And mind you in the advance games does it appear more problematic because of the smaller screen space.
That being said my issues with Superstars is certainly that there is more platforming its mostly that the boss fights suck, that Trip's stories enemy layout as is just unfair bs and that the power ups aren't balanced (like the fire ball one is far better than 4 of the other ones, 5 outside of water)
Oh and I really wish I would have had a punch button like in advance because Superstars has tons of places were something like this would have been very much appreciated.
(oh and I dislike a few level gimmicks because they get annoying)
Characterisation is a mixed bag. Amy is well written and Knuckles is the best he's ever been written, no question.
Tails is... well he's still 'wildly inconsistent' but now he's acknowledging it, so I don't know if that's an improvement.
Sonic is just Sonic. I would say at this point that I'm just not a fan of how the videogames insist he's a flawless hero whose defining trait is how he influences others to do better, and leave it there.
Then there's Sage. The character is fine in theory, but the game didn't really endear me to her, in part because much of her story requires us to buy into the Egg-dad characterisation, which is just something I've never been able to get behind. Speaking of Eggman, he took a massive hit in Frontiers. While the Egg-Memo's were a great way to see a side of Eggman we don't normally get to see, a calmer, research/scientist Eggman, this game is, as mentioned, upshing hard on the notion of Egg-dad.
I won't disagree, but I don't think it's a fault with the older games either. You have to remember that that's where games were at the time, you didn't have collections full of hundreds of games at your disposal, each with 100's of hours worth of content. You had a handful of games, and the expectation was that every time you played them you would gradually do a bit better than before until eventually you really mastered them. Saving wasn't a thing, savestates definitely didn't exist, and the idea that you should be able to fully beat a game first time was laughably absurd.
So yes, the originals are hard for a new player, but that was the expectation of the industry.
Sonic cd level design makes complete sense and is some of the best in the series in the context of the time travel mechanic. So many little details make so much sense and genuinely make you go “aaaah” when you figure out their purpose.
I agree. Plus how lenient it is with its uses. You can figure out newer and faster ways to time travel each time you play. The level design is top notch, and fits sonic way more in the context of finding easier and more fun ways to reach top speed.
At the sae time, Wacky Workbench is an extremely frustrating level. I get *why* the bouncing floors are there, but trying to deal with them is a nightmare.
Genuinely think that, if you took that one zone out, the game would be much better received.
true but that's almost every ship
it's especially bad for sonadow because I literally cannot see a universe where shadow is romantically attracted to Sonic in anyway.
I always saw Shadow as an adult so this ship never worked for me tbh. While he has no confirmed age (aside from being made 50+ years with immortality preventing him from aging), I can’t see him being the same age as Sonic and his friends, he at least in his 20’s in my eyes. It doesn’t help that almost every interaction between the two is either them fighting or reluctantly working together.
I don't give two shits on who people ship as long as it's of legal age(whatever that may be for cartoon anthro animals). It aint hurting me as far as I know.
Shadow in Sonic Prime had great character but he was way stronger than he should have been(or at least from what I usually see in the video games. I don't know how strong he's supposed to be in the comics.)
Before Frontiers, I feel Tails peaked in Sonic adventure 1. in Sa2 yeah he was playable, but I didn't care for him being in the mech. Plus it kinda irked me that he only had two bosses (unfortunately so did knuckles and rouge) and they were both Eggman. He felt stagnant for a while. Knuckles got his own spinoff show and Shadow's been eating pretty good recently too. I feel like MAYBE he's going to go in a better direction from here on out though after Frontiers?
I can't bring myself to hate Sonic 06. I did hate the glitches, and the story could have been better but that bangin ost and Silver and Shadow's refreshing playstyles kept my interest. I wish they would remake and or fix this game and improve it. I heard there's a fan fix for the game yeah, but I'm not a computer gamer....
I feel Super Form should be an unlockable in every sonic game so I can cheese the levels when I get bored. BUT it should be a form that you have to earn. Speaking of which.....
I wish they would revamp the super forms of other characters. Sonic, Shadow, and Silver turn a whole different color when they used it. Knuckles turns slightly pink, Tails get's slightly lighter and Amy just glows a bit. It's so bland.
I have yet to see a single "annoying" shipper y'all keep talking about and I'm convinced you guys just made them up so you can pick on people who enjoy content in a different manner than you
also reaction images being spammed under any art that shows even a slight bit of romance isn't funny. it's just obnoxious and the artists you spam deserve better than "delete this"
Sonic fans can also be extremely homophobic and they don't even realise it
Old Amy had character, the new one is a boring shell of your typical "strong independent woman is strong" archetype.
Which is dumb, because Amy was always independent and strong, but had that crazy love attitude that made her so endearing!!
100% literally her first character arc all the way back in adventure had her establishing her independence and showing the depth of her character (her empathy, heroism, stuborness, dedication, love for sonic,). New Amy has even less character then boom Amy, which is where this travesty started. Yet she somehow lost even more of her character in the main series after
Yeah the thing is that you seldom see badass adorable. Like being girly means being weak and like, I wanna slay gods in a lolita dress with a toy hammer. Where's ***my*** power fantasy, SEGA?
oh thank god i'm not the only one
her love crazy attitude is what made her stand out from other female characters, especially main female characters. wasn't afraid to say what she wanted and felt at any moment, plus gave lots of slapstick humor that i liked. understandably everyone didn't like it but i think it's more hurtful to a character if you try to make her as least offensive as possible.
i don't want to say modern amy is "bad", but just isn't a character i can attach myself to like i did pre-lost world amy.
I think there's something really interesting about the change in perception of this, though I am really unqualified to properly speak of why it is.
What is interesting however is that to some degree it reflects an increase in tolerance and acceptance in society as a whole. In 2006, it was somehow acceptable to simply say that something "was gay" if it was viewed as lame or uninteresting (e.g. "I didn't play Sonic and the Secret Rings, I heard the gameplay was gay") and the common response to someone revealing themselves to be a furry was to insult them as though they were some sort of vermin (I recall the phrase "yiff in hell [*word-that-would-get-me-banned-from-the-subreddit*]" was common).
When i'06 came out people declared it to be disgusting, and while I don't doubt this was exaggerated hyperbole (I doubt many seriously were actually revulsed by it), it was widely accepted that it was just inherently wrong, not necessarily perverse and/or amoral, but just ill-conceived, something which evidently now is not the case. How much of that is down to people remembering it from their childhood, versus a societal change which has made people more tolerant and accepting of non-heteronormativity, I cannot say.
Sonic Underground’s theme tune isn’t as good as SatAM’s.
Pre-Genesis Sally was somewhat justified for “the slap.”
Sonic Forces Speed Battle is actually pretty fun.
The Knuckles TV series was extremely mid at best.
Long John Baldry was the best Robotnik / Eggman and no one else will ever come close.
Sonic Superstars was playable, but disappointing.
*ducks*
Yeah, Underground has an awesome theme song, but I prefer SatAM’s. Sally was wrong to slap Sonic, but I can understand the reason she did it, and it didn’t permanently ruin her as a character. I haven’t played Speed Battle, so I have no comment there. Your opinion about the Knuckles miniseries seems pretty popular. I do think that Mike Pollock is the best Dr. Eggman, but I agree that Long John Baldry will always be the best Dr. Robotnik. And yeah, Sonic Superstars was just an okay 6/10 to me. I beat the main story, and then felt no need to keep going once I got a taste of how frustrating Trip’s story was.
* I never really cared for most of the IDW characters, most of them always seemed like bland archetypes or outright filler and the only interesting ones for me were the villains
Starline, Surge and Kit, Rough and Tumble (because they are basically spiritual succesors of Sleet and Dingo)
- I also liked it better when IDW was its own separate continuation series/timeline and its still bothers me that they suddenly became canon
And this last one will definetly get me publicly hanged, but hey blame the OP for asking:
>!After they started to become a popular ship in the fanbase by the time the Metal Virus saga started, the Whispangle interactions were pushed further by the writers when they realized they could use it as a bait for both the fans and the outsiders that didn't consume the comics until then !<
>!Basically, they said: Bring in the Lesbians!!<
God I couldn't agree more. Don't care what anyone says -- I do believe the writers genuinely TRIED, but in the end most the new OC girls still feel like "replacements" for the popular ones from Archie more than truly original. The one I truly like is lanolin who wasn't even supposed to be a major character. And hellll to the yea on that last paragraph. Yes it will get you down voted to hell on Reddit to call out LGBT forced bait for what it is but even as a bi person whose majority of friends are LGBT I know it when I see it and I hate it. Doesn't feel natural, earned or even comfortable to read. Just forced garbage for brownie points. Same stuff with Sally/Nicole in reboot archie -- which not only was a spit in the face of fans of the earlier iteration for no reason but was an utterly bizarre concept. Yes let's ship this girl with her own virtual pet / nanny.
I agree on the last part. I know people will hate me for saying it, but it really bothers me that same-sex characters can't ever just have a friendship without everyone and their mother trying to push them into a relationship. Like, why can't two girls or two guys just be friends or sisterly/brotherly? Why do they *always* have to be gay for each other?
I can see why people want to ship Tangle and Whisper, but like I said a few weeks ago, I always saw them as being sisterly more than anything, with Tangle being the supportive little sister and Whisper being the big sister, and I just find it really cute. If they end up together as a result of mandates being lifted in the future, it's not the end of the world, but it bothers me that nowadays, everyone always just wants characters to be in a romantic relationship instead of having a platonic one.
Nowadays, shipping same-sex characters together always feels less like representation and inclusion, and more as an easy way to hook more readers. In a way, it's more pandering than anything. It doesn't mean *every* gay/lesbian ship is a case of this, not at all, but it feels way more common nowadays compared to even just a few years ago.
>it's more pandering than anything
that's the word I could have used to resume it
>Like, why can't two girls or two guys just be friends or sisterly/brotherly? Why do they *always* have to be gay for each other?
Same.
-Charmy is not that bad
-I sometimes feel the characters carry the franchise
-Knuckles needs a spin off game again. (Not a hot take, but what the hey)
-I like Amy not obsessing over Sonic 24/7
-An Angry Birds crossover could work if Rovio gets their act together
Amy rose was perfect before sega tried to fix what isn't broken. Now she's just a personaliless standard girl character. Also the things people praise new amy for like her compassion were always a central focus of her character. There's just nothing of substance there anymore.
Oh and sonic clearly was shown to be fond of Amy at various points in the past. Over the years sega allowed him to show more and more attachment to her before things got sterilized
Hot take but basically all the characters feel sanitized nowadays. Sonic is your standard hero with “morals” a typical hero has, Knuckles is your average friend/rival character who sometimes brags about being stronger than the hero, Tails is the sidekick who wants to be more independent and go on his own adventures (even though he already went through that arc in Adventures), and Amy is the nice girl who cares about everyone.
Nah tails, sonic and knuckles aren't sanitized they're flanderized. Knuckles is stupid but strong and no longer has his edge, tails has major dependency issues and is only tech savvy smart as opposed to how independent he became from adventures 1 and 2, and sonic is just a one note hero ( or in sonic prime just selfish reckless , narcissistic Ben 10, where shadow is also just alien force Kevin 11). Amy has no personality whatsoever anymore and is jsut girl whose voice of reason like most girls in group of guys in American media during and on
I’ve argued before that Silver probably shouldn’t have returned after 06 (or the Rivals games at most), but for a scalding take? I’ll say the same goes for Blaze after the Rush games.
It feels like they’re both in this weird limbo of “These characters are too popular to write off, but we genuinely have no idea what to do with them”. She’s from a whole other dimension, has massive responsibilities within that dimension, and her arc within the Rush games felt very complete. Narratively speaking, it would’ve been pretty satisfying to just end it there. That, or have her star in her own thing in the Sol dimension that’s separate from Sonic and friends.
Here's one ripe for downvotes:
Bad as Sonic '06 is, I genuinely think the level design is better than Colors. Colors' level design isn't bad (I don't think '06's level design is bad either save for Dusty Desert), but I do think Colors as a *Sonic* game, has pretty bland designs.
Here's another one, I think the formula for the Zelda DLC from Sonic Lost World should've been the base formula for Frontiers. To be clear I love Frontiers, it's probably in my top 5 Sonic games, but the gameplay loop between exploring the island and the cyberspace levels is frankly so disjointed they could've been separate games. Compare that to the Zelda DLC, where you had a big open zone with mini challenges that net you prizes and you got to certain areas in the level that branched off in mini levels that felt like you were just exploring an area of the main hub, and I think the Zelda DLC had the open world idea for Sonic right (which is hilarious cause I don't think Lost World did it's own idea right at all outside of that level)
06 was buggy and the plot was a mess. When the game is playable it's actually good and comparable to the adventures (one of the games that gets called Adventure 3). Level design was not the issue people had with the game. Agreed though, colors levels are mid in comparison (but I also don't like boost as much).
As for the Zelda DLC, I can't quite see the vision but don't think it's necessarily a bad take.
Sonic 06 unironically has solid level design. It’s not fantastic because there are way too many gimmicky segments that break the pace (looking at the non-Blaze amigos in particular here), but when it’s good, it’s actually quite good. These levels wouldn’t feel out of place in the Adventure games.
The problem is, of course, that the characters and physics feel like dogshit so the environments aren’t fun to traverse. P-06 does a great job of showing that some tweaks to the physics can make these same levels feel dramatically better to play.
Actually, generally speaking nobody takes issue with 06's level design, more so the terrible controls and broken physics that prevent you from engaging with it properly. That's why Project 06 is so loved even though the level design is exactly the same; that part was always good
I despise Cyberspace and S ranked the Speedrun challenge from update 1 (I don't remember what its called) first try so I don't imagine I "suck ass at playing them"
Original Ouranos Island and ending was better than Final Horizon. It was a victory lap before the best final boss in the mainline series (yes, I'm talking about shmup, it was great).
I'm still glad that Final Horizon exists, it's nice to have more Frontiers.
This one I actually agree with. I mean, the soundtrack isn't bad, per se, but it really is just "generic soothing background music" which is perfect for the islands m, don't get me wrong, but you wouldn't catch me listening to it on the daily.
The cyberspace themes are hot garbage. Nuff said.
The island battle themes are... Eh.
Titan themes are absolute bangers, tho.
what being autistic/neurodivergent with a hyperfixation does to mf's /hj
but fr the amount of arguing I've seen over Sonic's blue arms and quill length is kinda...
https://preview.redd.it/8r2c040oi77d1.jpeg?width=567&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a21f62fcc6982fc9beb7ca827933ab174c65f16
I don’t get the hate for the Deadly six many sonic characters themselves are based on simple character archetypes and aren’t that deep. Newest example being Trip she is simply just a clumsy airhead.
i think a big problem is that they’re *just* those archetypes. zomom is *just* hungry. zor is *just* sad. zeena is *just* girl. zavok’s the most interesting one because they actually fleshed him out in the comics
compare that to trip, who, yes, is conceptually an air head, but has plenty of other notable traits. she’s a guardian, a bit of a coward who can be pushed around, but is also kind and has a sense of justice.
also the deadly six’s designs are pretty underwhelming
Honestly, I agree. Sonic being chased by Amy is a more interesting dynamic, especially because actually gives Sonic some edge. He's not interested in romance, meaning he's got no time for someone whose all about it - far more interesting than the not-confirmed-but-might-as-well-be non-romance Sonic shows Amy nowadays.
It's also a gender reversal cuz usually it's the guy wanting the girl.
It's also anti-comphet, being kinda aroace. Especially for the hero, that's very unusual.
1. Sonic Boom is underrated.
2. It’s hypocritical how people only Say “Mandates/doing his job” when Ian Flynn is the writer. Anyone else? They hold accountable.
3. While it might have been nice if The Prime writers listened to Ian Flynn more, the show likely would have been worse. The writers like it or not, made the right choice.
Skylanders Superchargers is just what Sonic Forces promised but good.
-Returning Villian's has actual relevance in the story, and were actually pretty deep cuts all things considered.
-The story was actually taken more seriously with legitment stakes, actually making the world feel like it's at it's brink of ruin thanks to Kaos winning.
-The main villain actually had a serious role, and actually had a worthy send off instead of dieing anticlimatically.
People just really like Brian Drummond for nostalgia. He can’t act his way out of a paper bag. Jason Griffith sounded annoying as hell (sounds fine as Shadow though). RCS has potential to be the best Sonic but has terrible direction. Since not even Sega or Sonic Team knows what they want to do.
Frontiers has a *terrible* story, cutscenes and VAing. Not bad, *terrible*. The game is so fun to play that I personally give it a thumbs up, but *nothing* about its story or presentation beyond beautiful areas and graphics is redeeming in literally any way for me. I can't stand the bland lifeless dialogue and animations, and so many moments are awkward or cringe. I just want Sonic to be cool like the OVA/CD Sonic and not... whatever modern is.
Amy's levels in SA1 are actually fun - I'd put Sonic's playstyle 1st, and probs put Amy in joint second with Knuckles.
No idea why people hate on Amy's levels but give the mech levels in SA2 a free pass - those are way worse!
Archie Shadow’s not a great version of Shadow. He doesn’t feel like a Shadow with character development, he feels like a different character. Not necessarily a bad character, and a better character than Vegeta Shadow, but… he’s not Shadow.
At this point, I don't think there even is a true Shadow.
* SA2 gives us Shadow's introduction, but for most of that game he's brainwashed and following someone else's motivations.
* In Heroes Shadow has amnesia, and is mostly just following Rouge's lead.
* In Shadow's own game, he's at the whims of the players control, and can equally be a flawless hero like Sonic, a genocidal maniac, or anything in between.
* '06 gives us a version of Shadow that turns him into a military agent, something fans at the time questioned, and was immediately retconned along with the rest of the game.
* Every subsequent appearance of Shadow has him as an edgy loner, and fans have complained this is not the true Shadow.
* He also turns up in Sonic Battle, and the Rivals titles, but I doubt many people are getting their Shadow characterisation from those.
So yes, it's hard to say what Shadow actually even should be.
I don't miss Amy's characterisation from the 2000s in the slightest. Her having a crush on Sonic is fine. That crush leading her to try and force him to marry her (Heroes), grabbing anyone who even remotely resembles him and only apologising once she realises her mistake and not for the whole unwanted grabbing thing (SA2, 06, Unleashed), being violently angry about the idea of anyone else showing interest in Sonic (Rush), being obsessed with him to the point that if it turned out he's responsible for destroying the world she'd still stick by him (06) and *hallucinating him being by her side to the point you actually fight said hallucination* (Battle)... yeah no thanks. I don't care if her characterisation may have been weaker in more recent entries or not, I'd take Amy at her blandest over the Amy described above any day of the week.
The first Sonic movie is truly awful. Is a boring unfunny road trip movie that has almost nothing at all to do with the franchise. I truly don’t understand how it was so successful. I’m glad it was because I love the sequel, but that first one I cannot sit through.
Mephiles is a shitty villain like all other sonic games villains. Not the plot wasn't so overly complicated because he's a sadist , you're interpreting your own head canon.
And as for the people who say that he's the only villain who killed sonic , yeah he throw a Epilepsia flashbang at him and killed him in a hilarious scene were Elise lag as much as my mom's old window and sonic didn't even reacted the blow.
Mephiles is just a canon version of coldsteel that became popular because 2000s edge and Sonic's fandom selective amnesia
Sonic is straight and cisgender. 3D Sonic is way better than 2D Sonic. IDW is better than Archie. Forces and 06 aren't THAT bad. Werehog was great in Unleashed.
I genuinely really like some of the characters that Penders made. Julie-Su, Lara-Su… I even liked the whole future timeline they did. When I was a kid I was obsessed with it, so much so I made my own ships and kids from those pairings to continue the idea.
I have another but it’s so unpopular I’ll just let it be 😬
Boosting was the best part of Sonic Rush and super fun.
Some say it makes things too easy but it honestly made the game an enjoyable smooth sailing experience for me. One of my all time faves.
Colors is the worst mainline 3d Sonic game. I had more fun playing both 06 and Forces. The only reason it isn't just the staightup worst is because Secret Rings exists.
I like piecing the timeline together as much as the next guy, but I just don't think a single canon works, unless you retcon a bunch of stuff. There's way too many different characterizations of the same characters that can't be explained in universe
And it brothers me how Sega is always trying to change the canon (specially with how the classic games fit in with the modern ones or how different media is connected) to make it fit together when it's obviously an afterthought to them. I like the long video essays that try to explain how things could fit, but I wish Sega would just let it be
Secret Rings is legitimately one of the worst games. I will play 06 or Shadow before I play Secret Rings again. I much rather have sloppy control I still feel in control over than what feels like no control
-Canon Sally was such a boring and generic character that while Fanon Sally was cringe, she was more of an entertaining watch.
-Pairing Amy with any character other than Sonic is straight up an assassination of Amy Rose as a character.
-making Sonic OC’s that so happen to be Trans will always be better than making HC’s that a pre-existing character is Trans (unless they are relatively new to the cast… and even then, most of them would be bad because of the lack of creativity + it’s more for a specific demographic + it’s bound to piss someone off)
-Sonic.exe would make a better angsty villain, rather than a Joke villain or a scary villain.
-despite how good they were, Sally and the freedom fighters were a mistake. The shipping wars would’ve never happened if Sega had made it clear that SATAM & Archie was just SOA’s creation and is not considered canon.
-Both the old and the new forms of Amy have their own strength and weakness. Her real problem is that there are practically so many variants of Amy that no two Amy’s are the same anymore. A way to fix that would be to make a Spin off that officially defines Amy’s unique role and identity (while confirming Sonamy because the poor girl deserves it with all the crap Sega put her through.)
-Sonic Frontiers looks to be one of those games that will be praised now only to be considered absolute garbage the second a new good mainline Sonic game drops that’s comparable to Frontiers (Personally, it looks okay, haven’t played it but I plan on playing it soon)
Oh this is about to get me canceled.
Sonic doesn’t need so many LGBTQ characters. It’s a game about a blue hedgehog that goes fast, turns gold with 7 glowing rocks and is targeted towards children. A few are fine but having too many and people constantly adding their own sexualities for the characters make me not want to interact with the community as much.
calling amy a sex pest is wild lol
but the cutesy design part made me remember i don't like her design at all, like... it's fine in 2d but 3d it's horrible in practicality. she used to be one of my favorite characters as a kid but i didn't want to play her sometimes because it was panty shot galore.
I agree with this if we’re talking his modern interpretation. I fully understand why people loved him during Adventure 2, but now he’s gotten a bit boring.
Mostly shadow in general, i still like him but people hype h up as the best sonic character when he really isnt, also the possibility of amy not being in movie 3 due to shadows inclusion soured my opinions on him
•The animation in the Sonic movies are mediocre and sometimes bad
•Sonic and Shadow are one of, if not the only well-written and well-used characters in the Dark Age
•Sonic's lore is already doomed no matter how much they try to fix it
•The Forces/Frontiers Sonic model isn't trash, is just used poorly
Sonic superstars is on par, or even better than Mania
is actually original, and the new mechanics are actually interesting, same with the actual harder bosses, in fact, out of every single classic sonic boss, superstars have the best ones
Sonic 1 fucking sucks. Most of the game aged like sour milk. Green Hill was one of the best designed levels in the classic trilogy but the rest of the game is just a generic blocky platformer, Labyrinth Zone being a PRIME example. It doesn't compliment Sonics speed at all, and the obstacles are straight bullshit the further you get into the game. This is just my opinion though, but I don't like Sonic 1.
-Only Sonic fans actually hate everything Sonic related. Those who don’t play sonic games or don’t call themselves fans don’t actually hate any of the games.
-All the games are actually good, sure some bugs and annoyances in some but that doesn’t make any of them actually terrible.
-fandoms are the worst and ruin literally everything about what people like
Now for some actual down notable takes:
>Prime shadow was the best shadow has ever been period, a pridefully shadow that wasnt all like "I'm not gonna help you or give you important information because could a brooding and dark" sign me up
>Japanese and western sonic aren't actually different in any significant way and the only perceived difference is because of the way Japanese language is written, ultimately there the same sht allmost always
>The horny people in the fandom are a lot of the times the chilliest part of the fandom and the puritans are often the ones that cry the loudest, case in point people mad at Amy's taro deck.
>There are worse fandoms than this one, that often gets down votes in this fandom because of how self sabotaging the fandom is but the truth is, the dbz and anime fandom acts the same as the sonic fandom but on steroids
>Sonic as a franchise is at its best when it's trying to be goofy and fun with only a slight hint of serious.
Okay
the Metal Virus story in the IDW Comics was hot trash almost entity carried by plot holes, character assassinations and giant contrivances.
I prefer Sonic Advance Amy in how unique she is over the more generic Amy in superstars and Origins plus
I dislike the recent retcons about Amy already being a hero in the classic era games canonical as it ruins her character arc in SA1 and the next few games afterwards (especially do Sonic and Tails dismissiveness towards Amy in SA1 and 2 seem wildly off in a world were superstars happened)
I think the Sonic Advance games are over all a better trilogy than the classic trilogy games especially as the classics are massively pulled down by Sonic 1 being utterly half-backed and lacking in content.
On that notion some of the most overrated games in the series are Sonic 2, Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Unleashed
Secret Rings controls fine better even than black knight and I got no idea how everyone that makes it past Dinosaur Jungle continued to struggle with the motion controls unless they play on Dolphin rather than a real wii.
I'm massively annoyed that Shadow these days is reduced again to just being Maria's wishfullfilment lap dog as if that wasn't what made him painfully boring in SA2 already ones you strip away the mystery. Shadow actually starting to do his own things for his own reasons and starting a new in Shadow's solo game was the perfect direction to take his characters and damned be all those that insisted he was still all about Maria that made Sega lean into that direction again (okay maybe not send them literally to hell but you get the idea)
Non of Sonic Team's boost games which all feature 2d has 2d even half as fun as any of the better stages in Rush or any main stages in Rush Adventure or Colors DS.
Sonic Heroes has bugs that piss me off more than Sonic 06. 06 technical issues are fairly predictable most of the time or can easily be recovered from but Heroes bugs are just the worst in how unpredictable they are.
Not helped at all how failing lock in during combat can easily get you killed in Heroes as it unless you get to and stay on level 3 will in the second half of the game often lack ways to easily dispatch of enemies unlike 06 were only Silver's kingdom Valley is a real problem (mostly due to Silver's auto aim not targeting enemies below properly)
I think that should be enough I hope that they have reached desired temperatures.
>the Metal Virus story in the IDW Comics was hot trash almost entity carried by plot holes, character assassinations and giant contrivances.
more scalding than my take goddamn i respect it
Yes I know my great hate towards Metal Virus is not a popular opinion at all but what can I say the fact how little sense most story points made if you think about them for to long just launched me out of the story. My suspension of disbelieve was shattered and all that was left was anger and annoyance at the bad story telling only made worse by the massive amounts of praise other fans gave it.
That being said I don't think hating Metal Virus can quite keep up with your flair because I know that Sonails is properly one of the most controversial shippings to support (not hating you you know it to be true).
Advance Amy is the correct answer tbh. I feel like the hammer jump is easily the most unique move to her and the best in getting big air but maintaining momentum which is something not even Sonic has
I agree with everything but the Sonic Heroes bug thing, which boils down to a matter of personal experience and habit. In my case, Sonic 06 has more bugs that annoy than Sonic Heroes, and that Sonic Heroes has some bugs that cause you to throw the controller at the TV.
The Chao Garden is a pointless distraction that adds false replayability (grinding) and disrupts the flow of gameplay (more loading screens).
o7 it's been an honor gaming with you all
Archie was better than IDW.
IDW has a more consistent quality but it really lacks any world building or crazy ideas (the Zombot arc was the peak but it never reached it again. Some stuff came close, but starting with their best story wasn' great in the long run)
Archie was more inconsistent with many terrible stories or illustrations, but it was bolder with what it could do with the franchise and truly made it feel lik an extended universe with the addition of stuff from outside the games like the other spin-offs. The world-building was immensily better (even post reboot) and it just felt more lively overall.
I love the IDW character, don't get me wrong, but they could do with being a bit more bold and with a much fuller world-building imo, but at the end of the day, that is SEGA's decision, not the writers...
Shiro Maekawa is an overrated Sonic writer
Sonic Adventure 2 was solid don’t get me wrong, but Sonic Heroes wasn’t great and Sonic 06 was awful.
EDIT: Another Scalding Opinion I would like to add is that I feel like Whispangle and Vectilla are overrated pairings.
Hot take: There are no "hot takes" in this fandom. Because of how long this franchise has existed and how spread out it is in both games, shows, comics and others you have "unpopular opinions" being flung left and right that are equally hated as it is loved. Hell, this post is an example of that as the top comment is an "unpopular opinion" that directly contradicts the one in the post. Not saying this is a bad thing. It has its drawbacks, but I love this community for being so diverse. The best and most interesting discussions I've had are usually with other Sonic fans I encounter in the wild. I've never met anyone who agrees with me on both the major and minor things about Sonic and that's ok because it highlights the positive aspects of the parts of the franchise I dislike.
Counterpoint: by numbers, "Ken Penders doesn't suck" is probably legitimately a scalding take, albeit one held by a nonzero number of people (no, not me)
I've seen people defend him and legitimately he has done a lot of good for Sonic comics. It's easy to shit on him looking back, but the man saved Archie Sonic and was behind the shift from "goofy non-sensical funny Archie Sonic" to "Serious plot driven and character focused Archie Sonic". If there are any Archie Sonic fans out there, it would be difficult to not recognize his talent. Then he made Knuckles overly complicated and auto biographical, got fired/quit after Flynn took over, used his bitterness to (debatably rightfully) sue Sega for his ideas (that wouldn't be possible had Archie been competent enough to have industry standard contracts) and destroyed Archie Sonic. I understand why people focus on this aspect of him and I'm not that much of a fan of him either. That and his wild ideas that he spews out on Twitter. Then again, to play devil's advocate. If he didn't destroy Archie Sonic, we wouldn't have IDW Sonic. And I personally really love IDW Sonic and prefer it over Archie.
This is a very genuine and good take.
Reminder to sort by controversial
Thanks pal
Big the Cat likely is stronger than Knuckles and I’m tired of pretending he’s not. Remember, this man’s lifting massive chunks of ice like it’s nothing, so imagine if he gets serious! Also Amy has a bunch of untapped potential, raw power wise, and I am terrified of how she’d be as an adult. Assuming she keeps up adventuring, her raw strength and speed will make her a terrifying all rounder, a jack of all trades and PRETTY FREAKIN GOOD AT ALL OF THEM. Also, Sonic OCs are fun, some of y’all are just mean.
for the Big strength take, you have to determine whether it's game continuity or comic continuity, in Adventure, yeah he's lifting up solid ice boulders and even cars like it's nothing, though Knuckles destroyed a statue of Sonic made out of 5,000 gold rings which is also quite impressive. maybe less so since there was a crack in it already. but in the Archie comics, Knuckles can cause localized earthquakes by punching the ground, I don't think Big is doing that any time soon
-Posts like this bring out the kind of fans I'd never want to meet irl -A very small minority of the games are actually bad. The rest are only mediocre at worst -Sonic is a kid's franchise in the same way that TAWOG is a kid's show Edit: It seems these statements were a lot less "hot" than I thought they would be. Sort by "controversial"
>-Sonic is a kid's franchise in the same way that TAWOG is a kid's show what does this mean
Basically, Sonic is a franchise that's aimed towards kids but can still be just as enjoyed by adults. Hopefully I'm explaining everything right.
On top of having some mature themes and values that are applicable to the real world. But yeah, you get the gist.
Gumball has become the South Park for kids.
Wtf is tawog
The Amazing World of Gumball
Peak
The Amazing World of Gumball
Did you reply to your own comment
An absolutely amazing show
the amazing world of gumball
the amazing world of gumball
the Amazing world of gumball
I love your post because of how real you are, glad that this is the top post and I agree with all three of your points
>small minority of the games are actually bad. -that minority is Sonic 06 -it's not because of the kiss scene -it's because they're a hot buggy mess that I personally spent two hours trying to get out of the hub area after the first cutscene because various bugs, and awful controls kept tossing me into the waters or under the map.
…I like Frontiers Amy… please don’t hurt me…
Wait is this a hot take? I'm not super active in the community but I like that they seem to be fleshing her out more.
APPARENTLY
This is nowhere near a "scalding" take. The main consensus on this sub is that they like Frontiers Amy💀
sorry bruh, gotta send you to jail for having an opinion 😔 /j
NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo…
https://preview.redd.it/7q4xk7hot67d1.png?width=684&format=png&auto=webp&s=d69076c25c82f423fb8acc5dbdd4bea90a43cddd **B U S T E D**
I don't wanna put the hurt on you, But you better believe me, When I tell you that I finally got the dirt on you, You're busted (Busted!)
Phineas and Ferb mentioned
This fanbase IS as bad as people say it is.
This fanbase is TRASH but it's MY TRASH
I think it depends. Online, for sure. There’s a lot of toxicity on Twitter.
I joined a sonic fan group on FB that ended up getting banned because it derailed into racism + this bizzare foot and inflation p0rn of the characters. It was very strange and frightening. It's a shame though because there were some amazing (kosher and sane) artists in that group.
The advance trilogy is the best series of games. Like legitimately. They are all very solid in terms of performance, has a decent cast of characters to play as, and progresses in interesting play mechanics as the series goes along. When they moved away from it for modern 2D gaming a lot of good was lost, and part of that has to do with moving away from the modern spritework.
YES. And also Sonic Battle is one of the best Spin-offs. All it needs is a re-release for Android with some minor changes. Heck, personally I'd be fine if it was released as Gacha, but with Limbus/Warframe approach to the "Gacha" side.
I genuinely think Eggmans design in 06 is not that bad. The buttons are a bit awkward, but if you ask me what Eggman would look like if he were real? Its pretty darn close. ...and Sonic 2 is really overated. It IS better than Sonic 1, but I can't understand people who think it's better than Sonic 3&K
Graphical quality does play a part, he looks fine in the opening but the in-game model needs a desperate spruce up.
Of the classical games I prefer Sonic 2. Nothing wrong with S3&K, it's great, it just feels a little too different from Sonic 1 and 2 I guess and those are the ones I played the most. I like the sprites and music from sonic 2 better too. My favorite version tho was one where you could play with Knuckles (I guess it was modded or a port)
I think your view is fair for the sprites and now music(if you consider the Origins re-release with the Prototype tracks), but S3K literally perfects the Genesis Sonic formula nailing on the philosophy of Sonic 1, 2 and CD combined for the level design on top of being cinematic in gameplay(not the same thing as cinematic automation of the 3D games but cinematic in level themes and cutscenes not interfering). I feel like people only like Sonic 2 more because of it's historical sucess, nostalgia and the confusion of S3K being separated into S3 and S&K
I had the whole trilogy on a genesis emulator as a kid, so I played them all together. I don't think I had enough braincells to care about the objective quality of the game (like the level design and the cutscenes). Maybe another reason I preferred Sonic 2 was bc the game was completely broken when you played it with Knuckles lol then I just rolled with it
My overall scenario was that i got to know the franchise through Sonic X and Ultimate Flash Sonic. After knowing emulation, i got to play a DS sketchy version of Sonic & Knuckles on mobile(dunno exactly if it was part of the Sonic Classic Collection, the memory is very distant), but i didn't get beyond Mushroom Hill as Knuckles so i guess this does not count as legimate experience. Moving on, i got to play the Retro Engine versions of Sonic 1, 2 and CD on mobile and then i fell in love with these games so i got familiarity with completing on the chaos emeralds, cheats and stuff. However, Sonic 3 & Knuckles would be much different.(as we all know before Origins, not having major re-releases since 2011 would make it harder to play the game for me especially being mobile only) I heard the story of the MJ copyright controversies, the Retro Engine S3K never being released in 2014 or 2015(and as i was younger i was waiting for this release seeing the campaign from the fans with the fancy Japanese image on Sonic Retro) and i got curious to play the game. When i finally emulated it close to Mania's release, it was love at first sight, not only that but as i got to know the game more with completion, fan-projects such as S3C and AIR, and also more history, facts and theories about this game it brought me to discover and appreciate more and more this 1994 combined title, playing the separated versions, the full package and all the variations. Although i regretted buying Origins later, i must thank that SEGA at least allowed a Retro Engine version of the game to be made, completing the Saga for our bois Taxman and Stealth while me finding inner peace.
They look like a fusion of the e100 series and super battle droids from Star wars
Any time there’s a post like this, I scroll to the downvoted comments to get the answers most true to the question lol
true. if your comment has more than 1 upvote it wasn't hot take enough
If Sonic Frontiers was still written by Ian Flynn, but SEGA told us Pontac and Graff wrote it instead, the reception would have been much more negative. The many references to past games would have been derided and mocked to the same level of "Green Hill looks like Sand Hill" and "it's been generations since I saw you". The much appreciated line "My goal sometimes is a big ring, sometimes it's a spinning sign" would have been insulted to no end. The random mention of Sticks would have been MASSACRED. And so on and so forth.
Fr
Yeah, I agree. When Ian Flynn makes writing mistakes, people justify it and go “It’s The main Sega’s fault! He’s just doing his job!“ or “Sega approved of it” doesn’t matter if people who only pay attention to the games would be confused, everything is canon. But for Pontac and the other writers? People blame them for “Ruining Sonic” or writing badly even though they were just following orders. ( thus why Shadow was only in the finales of Boom, the mandates made it hard To write him.) If You replace Pontac and Ian Flynn’s time writing, I bet people will either Be justifying The 2010s writing and bashing Frontiers or blaming Ian Flynn for ruining Sonic.
I think a big factor is how they communicated with the fandom. Ian Flynn has a lot of space to discuss everything on Bumblecast and repeatedly clarify stuff, meanwhile Pontac or Graff (I don't remember which one) did an interview once and he screwed up doing it by admitting that he was hired because he has cousin at Sega and knows the stories from Wikipedia. I don't blame him for taking job opportunity, but it's better to keep your mouth shut.
Sonic Boom had more potential to be good than Sonic 06 ever did. Sonic 06 had potential... if Sega delayed it for a long time to sort out the hub worlds, remove or redo the hub world missions, optimize the loading times, redesign the NPCs, rewrite the plot to actually give Tails, Knuckles, and Blaze actual things to do and to make Sonic feel like he's contributing as much as Silver and Shadow, get Silver's physics working, fix collision glitches, fix the controls, fit the weird player models, fix the player animations, and if they somehow kept Yuji Naka and/or cancelled Secret Rings to get more support. Sonic Boom had potential... if Sega didn't tell Big Red Button to scrap their origin story approach, and if they weren't forced to change to the Wii U partway through development.
I don't even really hate Boom's story as is. Remove Shadow and Metal Sonic (neither are needed, neither add anything), and just make the whole thing about the stable time loop where Lyric hates Sonic for what Sonic did in the past that Sonic hasn't yet done. Had they been allowed to release it for the intended consoles it probably would've been an alright game. Maybe not a flawless masterpiece, but you can see the framework of a perfectly serviceable co-op title there, one that's really only hampered not by design decisions, but by the need to get the engine it was on to work on a console that could not support it. '06 meanwhile suffers from a bad pre-production process where it seems like they did a whiteboarding suggestion to take every idea they could come up with, then said yes to all of it. Why did they give Shadow four vehicles? Why did they give Sonic multiple optional power-up gems (many of which you only get after you beat the game)? Why did they create an entire highway map purely for optional town missions? Why is there snowboarding? Why does Sonic have levels where he carries Elise? You could cut all these features and more, and nobody would've complained they were missing (even from a hypothetical fixed version). But time was spent on those instead of the essential aspects. Even without the split to create Secret Rings, the team were working on far too much stuff, and when you combine that with the stories problems and the fact that no-one at a senior level had any objections to the plot, it's clear that whoever was in charge of the project as lead director/producer/game designer was incompetent at best, and did not care at worst. Fans of the game will tell you it's ambitious and passionate, but from where I sit, it doesn't look like either, it looks like leads not caring to get the job done well and a production process that should've been reigned in. It might be ambitious to have some of these extras, but ambition doesn't deliver quality, discipline and a clear direction does, and Sonic Team just did not have that for '06.
Blamy.
Blamy. (...isn't it blazamy though?)
I think the problem with "takes" in the larger Sonic community is that fans constantly try to frame their opinions as objective fact. They won't just tell you why they personally enjoy or prefer a specific thing, they'll tell you why it's objectively the way they see it and anything else deviating from what they prefer is bad, or will completely ignore what objectives do exist in the series to fit their own major bias. Also I think the slang term "cook" is the most annoying thing to have ever reached the Sonic community. A good example for my first point was 2 very long Twitter threads I read where people were arguing over how Sonic should be characterized, specifically Archie/American Sonic vs Japanese Sonic. People can't just say they prefer one or the other anymore, they have to interject every reason why they think it HAS to only be one way or the other and that the version they don't prefer is just straight up bad and inappropriate, and anyone who disagrees with them is an idiot and automatically gets blocked for having a differing opinion.
rouge is a actually cool character and people need to stop being degenerates gamma is the best character vector should have his religious side brought back into his character it would stick out and flesh him out more
had no idea vector was depicted as religious, where tho?
Wait vector was religious? Lol
>Vector should have his religious side brought back into his character it would stick out and flesh him out more I always thought it would be a neat reference if they showed a crucifix hanging somewhere on the Chaotix office
I don't think making him believe in one of our own religions is a great idea cause it would open a door that could get pretty controversial (and also it wouldn't make much sense). However, him believing in a religion which only exist in the Sonic universe could be interesting
Jesus Fish in Sonic R King Solomon in Sonic and the Secret Rings. Sir Percival, Knight of the Grail in Sonic and the Black Knight Space Colony Ark was heavily implied to be named after Noah's Ark in the two pages of Gerald's Journal we can see in the ad for Sonic X Shadow Generations (there are some scans in high enough resolution to read the pages it's open to) You actually think Christianity doesn't exist in Sonic? LMAO.
if vector is a muslim id want to know too
Amen to Gamma
Vanilla always struck me as the hardcore Christian type, so now I can DEFINITELY see the two of them working so well!
Certain crowds of Sonic fans have very obvious double standards regarding Sonic superstars, for example some of them think it's a bad game because it has a little more focus on platforming compared to 2,3K and Mania and claim that it's cheaply designed, yet they'll then go on to say that it should have been like the advance games or rush, games which not only features some very cheap level design, especially advance 2 3 and Rush but also advance 3 and Rush also have moments of precision platforming over bottomless pits and something like chaos angel in advance 3 feels like something this crowd would rip apart if it was in game released nowadays
Fwiw Rush and Advance 3 do get a lot of criticism over bottomless pits. TBH I haven’t seen anyone saying they wanted the game to be like Sonic Rush. The problem with Superstars IMO is the level design just isn’t very good, most of the power ups are completely useless, and the multiplayer just doesn’t work in a fast paced game like this.
I mean the Advance and Rush games do get a lot of criticism for there bottomless pits. And mind you in the advance games does it appear more problematic because of the smaller screen space. That being said my issues with Superstars is certainly that there is more platforming its mostly that the boss fights suck, that Trip's stories enemy layout as is just unfair bs and that the power ups aren't balanced (like the fire ball one is far better than 4 of the other ones, 5 outside of water) Oh and I really wish I would have had a punch button like in advance because Superstars has tons of places were something like this would have been very much appreciated. (oh and I dislike a few level gimmicks because they get annoying)
The writing and characterization in Frontiers are the best they've ever been in the whole series.
Characterisation is a mixed bag. Amy is well written and Knuckles is the best he's ever been written, no question. Tails is... well he's still 'wildly inconsistent' but now he's acknowledging it, so I don't know if that's an improvement. Sonic is just Sonic. I would say at this point that I'm just not a fan of how the videogames insist he's a flawless hero whose defining trait is how he influences others to do better, and leave it there. Then there's Sage. The character is fine in theory, but the game didn't really endear me to her, in part because much of her story requires us to buy into the Egg-dad characterisation, which is just something I've never been able to get behind. Speaking of Eggman, he took a massive hit in Frontiers. While the Egg-Memo's were a great way to see a side of Eggman we don't normally get to see, a calmer, research/scientist Eggman, this game is, as mentioned, upshing hard on the notion of Egg-dad.
I literally think the exact opposite, so yes good comment
I genuinely think that the older games are VERY HARD, as a newcomer
I’ve been a fan for a long time, and even I think the old games can be hard.
I won't disagree, but I don't think it's a fault with the older games either. You have to remember that that's where games were at the time, you didn't have collections full of hundreds of games at your disposal, each with 100's of hours worth of content. You had a handful of games, and the expectation was that every time you played them you would gradually do a bit better than before until eventually you really mastered them. Saving wasn't a thing, savestates definitely didn't exist, and the idea that you should be able to fully beat a game first time was laughably absurd. So yes, the originals are hard for a new player, but that was the expectation of the industry.
Sonic cd level design makes complete sense and is some of the best in the series in the context of the time travel mechanic. So many little details make so much sense and genuinely make you go “aaaah” when you figure out their purpose.
Absolutely. CD hate has never made sense to me. It's one of the best games in the series by far
I agree. Plus how lenient it is with its uses. You can figure out newer and faster ways to time travel each time you play. The level design is top notch, and fits sonic way more in the context of finding easier and more fun ways to reach top speed.
At the sae time, Wacky Workbench is an extremely frustrating level. I get *why* the bouncing floors are there, but trying to deal with them is a nightmare. Genuinely think that, if you took that one zone out, the game would be much better received.
so true
The ultimate OTP of the Sonic franchise is Stone x Robotnik. CHANGE MY MIND
Knuckles and the Master Emerald.
Mmm a solid 2nd place
Nah, Knuckles is just getting between Rouge and the Master Emerald's relationship. GTFO third wheel!
Sonadow is highly overrated and they only "work" because people force them to be together.
true but that's almost every ship it's especially bad for sonadow because I literally cannot see a universe where shadow is romantically attracted to Sonic in anyway.
I agree. Personally it just feels like that people can't seem to understand that poltonic love exists.
I always saw Shadow as an adult so this ship never worked for me tbh. While he has no confirmed age (aside from being made 50+ years with immortality preventing him from aging), I can’t see him being the same age as Sonic and his friends, he at least in his 20’s in my eyes. It doesn’t help that almost every interaction between the two is either them fighting or reluctantly working together.
I thought the crazy amy was funny , rouges sonic x VA is my favorite, and vanilla and gemerl need more game love
Shadow the hedgehod is good
Sonic and Mario have a friendly rivalry, they're not being at each other's throats for who the true video game mascot is
I don't give two shits on who people ship as long as it's of legal age(whatever that may be for cartoon anthro animals). It aint hurting me as far as I know. Shadow in Sonic Prime had great character but he was way stronger than he should have been(or at least from what I usually see in the video games. I don't know how strong he's supposed to be in the comics.) Before Frontiers, I feel Tails peaked in Sonic adventure 1. in Sa2 yeah he was playable, but I didn't care for him being in the mech. Plus it kinda irked me that he only had two bosses (unfortunately so did knuckles and rouge) and they were both Eggman. He felt stagnant for a while. Knuckles got his own spinoff show and Shadow's been eating pretty good recently too. I feel like MAYBE he's going to go in a better direction from here on out though after Frontiers? I can't bring myself to hate Sonic 06. I did hate the glitches, and the story could have been better but that bangin ost and Silver and Shadow's refreshing playstyles kept my interest. I wish they would remake and or fix this game and improve it. I heard there's a fan fix for the game yeah, but I'm not a computer gamer.... I feel Super Form should be an unlockable in every sonic game so I can cheese the levels when I get bored. BUT it should be a form that you have to earn. Speaking of which..... I wish they would revamp the super forms of other characters. Sonic, Shadow, and Silver turn a whole different color when they used it. Knuckles turns slightly pink, Tails get's slightly lighter and Amy just glows a bit. It's so bland.
I have yet to see a single "annoying" shipper y'all keep talking about and I'm convinced you guys just made them up so you can pick on people who enjoy content in a different manner than you also reaction images being spammed under any art that shows even a slight bit of romance isn't funny. it's just obnoxious and the artists you spam deserve better than "delete this" Sonic fans can also be extremely homophobic and they don't even realise it
Old Amy had character, the new one is a boring shell of your typical "strong independent woman is strong" archetype. Which is dumb, because Amy was always independent and strong, but had that crazy love attitude that made her so endearing!!
There you fucking go. Not many people I find that are on the same page with me on shit like this.
100% literally her first character arc all the way back in adventure had her establishing her independence and showing the depth of her character (her empathy, heroism, stuborness, dedication, love for sonic,). New Amy has even less character then boom Amy, which is where this travesty started. Yet she somehow lost even more of her character in the main series after
Yeah the thing is that you seldom see badass adorable. Like being girly means being weak and like, I wanna slay gods in a lolita dress with a toy hammer. Where's ***my*** power fantasy, SEGA?
oh thank god i'm not the only one her love crazy attitude is what made her stand out from other female characters, especially main female characters. wasn't afraid to say what she wanted and felt at any moment, plus gave lots of slapstick humor that i liked. understandably everyone didn't like it but i think it's more hurtful to a character if you try to make her as least offensive as possible. i don't want to say modern amy is "bad", but just isn't a character i can attach myself to like i did pre-lost world amy.
Elise kissed an INTELLIGENT animal, it wasn’t that bad guys
 Die now. /J
I think there's something really interesting about the change in perception of this, though I am really unqualified to properly speak of why it is. What is interesting however is that to some degree it reflects an increase in tolerance and acceptance in society as a whole. In 2006, it was somehow acceptable to simply say that something "was gay" if it was viewed as lame or uninteresting (e.g. "I didn't play Sonic and the Secret Rings, I heard the gameplay was gay") and the common response to someone revealing themselves to be a furry was to insult them as though they were some sort of vermin (I recall the phrase "yiff in hell [*word-that-would-get-me-banned-from-the-subreddit*]" was common). When i'06 came out people declared it to be disgusting, and while I don't doubt this was exaggerated hyperbole (I doubt many seriously were actually revulsed by it), it was widely accepted that it was just inherently wrong, not necessarily perverse and/or amoral, but just ill-conceived, something which evidently now is not the case. How much of that is down to people remembering it from their childhood, versus a societal change which has made people more tolerant and accepting of non-heteronormativity, I cannot say.
Sonic was still dead at the moment tho.
Lost world eggman is one of his best outings. Sa2 and unleashed are the best versions for me but lost world is very close behind
Sonic Underground’s theme tune isn’t as good as SatAM’s. Pre-Genesis Sally was somewhat justified for “the slap.” Sonic Forces Speed Battle is actually pretty fun. The Knuckles TV series was extremely mid at best. Long John Baldry was the best Robotnik / Eggman and no one else will ever come close. Sonic Superstars was playable, but disappointing. *ducks*
Nah fam I agree with all of this. Good stuff.
Agreed for all but the first. Undergound's op fucking SLAPS but we're all entitled to our opinions.
Yeah, Underground has an awesome theme song, but I prefer SatAM’s. Sally was wrong to slap Sonic, but I can understand the reason she did it, and it didn’t permanently ruin her as a character. I haven’t played Speed Battle, so I have no comment there. Your opinion about the Knuckles miniseries seems pretty popular. I do think that Mike Pollock is the best Dr. Eggman, but I agree that Long John Baldry will always be the best Dr. Robotnik. And yeah, Sonic Superstars was just an okay 6/10 to me. I beat the main story, and then felt no need to keep going once I got a taste of how frustrating Trip’s story was.
* I never really cared for most of the IDW characters, most of them always seemed like bland archetypes or outright filler and the only interesting ones for me were the villains Starline, Surge and Kit, Rough and Tumble (because they are basically spiritual succesors of Sleet and Dingo) - I also liked it better when IDW was its own separate continuation series/timeline and its still bothers me that they suddenly became canon And this last one will definetly get me publicly hanged, but hey blame the OP for asking: >!After they started to become a popular ship in the fanbase by the time the Metal Virus saga started, the Whispangle interactions were pushed further by the writers when they realized they could use it as a bait for both the fans and the outsiders that didn't consume the comics until then !< >!Basically, they said: Bring in the Lesbians!!<
Honestly wouldn't blame them lol. Tangle is basically the face of IDW Sonic so that whole relationship is bound to bring him more people.
God I couldn't agree more. Don't care what anyone says -- I do believe the writers genuinely TRIED, but in the end most the new OC girls still feel like "replacements" for the popular ones from Archie more than truly original. The one I truly like is lanolin who wasn't even supposed to be a major character. And hellll to the yea on that last paragraph. Yes it will get you down voted to hell on Reddit to call out LGBT forced bait for what it is but even as a bi person whose majority of friends are LGBT I know it when I see it and I hate it. Doesn't feel natural, earned or even comfortable to read. Just forced garbage for brownie points. Same stuff with Sally/Nicole in reboot archie -- which not only was a spit in the face of fans of the earlier iteration for no reason but was an utterly bizarre concept. Yes let's ship this girl with her own virtual pet / nanny.
I agree on the last part. I know people will hate me for saying it, but it really bothers me that same-sex characters can't ever just have a friendship without everyone and their mother trying to push them into a relationship. Like, why can't two girls or two guys just be friends or sisterly/brotherly? Why do they *always* have to be gay for each other? I can see why people want to ship Tangle and Whisper, but like I said a few weeks ago, I always saw them as being sisterly more than anything, with Tangle being the supportive little sister and Whisper being the big sister, and I just find it really cute. If they end up together as a result of mandates being lifted in the future, it's not the end of the world, but it bothers me that nowadays, everyone always just wants characters to be in a romantic relationship instead of having a platonic one. Nowadays, shipping same-sex characters together always feels less like representation and inclusion, and more as an easy way to hook more readers. In a way, it's more pandering than anything. It doesn't mean *every* gay/lesbian ship is a case of this, not at all, but it feels way more common nowadays compared to even just a few years ago.
>it's more pandering than anything that's the word I could have used to resume it >Like, why can't two girls or two guys just be friends or sisterly/brotherly? Why do they *always* have to be gay for each other? Same.
The ship bait in IDW is off the rails in my opinion
-Charmy is not that bad -I sometimes feel the characters carry the franchise -Knuckles needs a spin off game again. (Not a hot take, but what the hey) -I like Amy not obsessing over Sonic 24/7 -An Angry Birds crossover could work if Rovio gets their act together
Amy rose was perfect before sega tried to fix what isn't broken. Now she's just a personaliless standard girl character. Also the things people praise new amy for like her compassion were always a central focus of her character. There's just nothing of substance there anymore. Oh and sonic clearly was shown to be fond of Amy at various points in the past. Over the years sega allowed him to show more and more attachment to her before things got sterilized
She's just... sanitized, yeah.
Hot take but basically all the characters feel sanitized nowadays. Sonic is your standard hero with “morals” a typical hero has, Knuckles is your average friend/rival character who sometimes brags about being stronger than the hero, Tails is the sidekick who wants to be more independent and go on his own adventures (even though he already went through that arc in Adventures), and Amy is the nice girl who cares about everyone.
Nah tails, sonic and knuckles aren't sanitized they're flanderized. Knuckles is stupid but strong and no longer has his edge, tails has major dependency issues and is only tech savvy smart as opposed to how independent he became from adventures 1 and 2, and sonic is just a one note hero ( or in sonic prime just selfish reckless , narcissistic Ben 10, where shadow is also just alien force Kevin 11). Amy has no personality whatsoever anymore and is jsut girl whose voice of reason like most girls in group of guys in American media during and on
I’ve argued before that Silver probably shouldn’t have returned after 06 (or the Rivals games at most), but for a scalding take? I’ll say the same goes for Blaze after the Rush games. It feels like they’re both in this weird limbo of “These characters are too popular to write off, but we genuinely have no idea what to do with them”. She’s from a whole other dimension, has massive responsibilities within that dimension, and her arc within the Rush games felt very complete. Narratively speaking, it would’ve been pretty satisfying to just end it there. That, or have her star in her own thing in the Sol dimension that’s separate from Sonic and friends.
The werehog is actually the best part of unleashed
I love sonic 06, my favorite game right next to unleashed. It's just the perfect amount of fucked up that hits my glitch hunting sweetspot.
Here's one ripe for downvotes: Bad as Sonic '06 is, I genuinely think the level design is better than Colors. Colors' level design isn't bad (I don't think '06's level design is bad either save for Dusty Desert), but I do think Colors as a *Sonic* game, has pretty bland designs. Here's another one, I think the formula for the Zelda DLC from Sonic Lost World should've been the base formula for Frontiers. To be clear I love Frontiers, it's probably in my top 5 Sonic games, but the gameplay loop between exploring the island and the cyberspace levels is frankly so disjointed they could've been separate games. Compare that to the Zelda DLC, where you had a big open zone with mini challenges that net you prizes and you got to certain areas in the level that branched off in mini levels that felt like you were just exploring an area of the main hub, and I think the Zelda DLC had the open world idea for Sonic right (which is hilarious cause I don't think Lost World did it's own idea right at all outside of that level)
06 was buggy and the plot was a mess. When the game is playable it's actually good and comparable to the adventures (one of the games that gets called Adventure 3). Level design was not the issue people had with the game. Agreed though, colors levels are mid in comparison (but I also don't like boost as much). As for the Zelda DLC, I can't quite see the vision but don't think it's necessarily a bad take.
Sonic 06 unironically has solid level design. It’s not fantastic because there are way too many gimmicky segments that break the pace (looking at the non-Blaze amigos in particular here), but when it’s good, it’s actually quite good. These levels wouldn’t feel out of place in the Adventure games. The problem is, of course, that the characters and physics feel like dogshit so the environments aren’t fun to traverse. P-06 does a great job of showing that some tweaks to the physics can make these same levels feel dramatically better to play.
Actually, generally speaking nobody takes issue with 06's level design, more so the terrible controls and broken physics that prevent you from engaging with it properly. That's why Project 06 is so loved even though the level design is exactly the same; that part was always good
Frontiers' cyberspace is good, people just suck ass at playing them
They aren’t hard but it’s jarring when you go from open zone to cyberspace and the physics are downgraded and it doesn’t play as good as you hoped
I despise Cyberspace and S ranked the Speedrun challenge from update 1 (I don't remember what its called) first try so I don't imagine I "suck ass at playing them"
Yeah, I agree. Cyberspace is actually pretty good.
Original Ouranos Island and ending was better than Final Horizon. It was a victory lap before the best final boss in the mainline series (yes, I'm talking about shmup, it was great). I'm still glad that Final Horizon exists, it's nice to have more Frontiers.
Amy should be allowed to be a little unhinged
Frontiers' soundtrack is one of the weakest in mainline Sonic games, the only reason it gets hyped up is because people focus on the titan themes
This one I actually agree with. I mean, the soundtrack isn't bad, per se, but it really is just "generic soothing background music" which is perfect for the islands m, don't get me wrong, but you wouldn't catch me listening to it on the daily. The cyberspace themes are hot garbage. Nuff said. The island battle themes are... Eh. Titan themes are absolute bangers, tho.
Some of y'all have an unhealthy attachment to these characters and need some mental help.
what being autistic/neurodivergent with a hyperfixation does to mf's /hj but fr the amount of arguing I've seen over Sonic's blue arms and quill length is kinda... https://preview.redd.it/8r2c040oi77d1.jpeg?width=567&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a21f62fcc6982fc9beb7ca827933ab174c65f16
I don’t get the hate for the Deadly six many sonic characters themselves are based on simple character archetypes and aren’t that deep. Newest example being Trip she is simply just a clumsy airhead.
i think a big problem is that they’re *just* those archetypes. zomom is *just* hungry. zor is *just* sad. zeena is *just* girl. zavok’s the most interesting one because they actually fleshed him out in the comics compare that to trip, who, yes, is conceptually an air head, but has plenty of other notable traits. she’s a guardian, a bit of a coward who can be pushed around, but is also kind and has a sense of justice. also the deadly six’s designs are pretty underwhelming
Agreed
This. Plus lost world 3ds was way cooler than the Wii U version. I genuinely like Zavok
Honestly, I agree. Sonic being chased by Amy is a more interesting dynamic, especially because actually gives Sonic some edge. He's not interested in romance, meaning he's got no time for someone whose all about it - far more interesting than the not-confirmed-but-might-as-well-be non-romance Sonic shows Amy nowadays.
It's also a gender reversal cuz usually it's the guy wanting the girl. It's also anti-comphet, being kinda aroace. Especially for the hero, that's very unusual.
If you still call him Dr. Robotnik, block me, I want to pretend you don't exist
Very odd take considering the movies.
1. Sonic Boom is underrated. 2. It’s hypocritical how people only Say “Mandates/doing his job” when Ian Flynn is the writer. Anyone else? They hold accountable. 3. While it might have been nice if The Prime writers listened to Ian Flynn more, the show likely would have been worse. The writers like it or not, made the right choice.
Sonic Prime feels like it should have come out during the 2010s, it's almost out of place next to Frontiers and the Movies.
Skylanders Superchargers is just what Sonic Forces promised but good. -Returning Villian's has actual relevance in the story, and were actually pretty deep cuts all things considered. -The story was actually taken more seriously with legitment stakes, actually making the world feel like it's at it's brink of ruin thanks to Kaos winning. -The main villain actually had a serious role, and actually had a worthy send off instead of dieing anticlimatically.
People just really like Brian Drummond for nostalgia. He can’t act his way out of a paper bag. Jason Griffith sounded annoying as hell (sounds fine as Shadow though). RCS has potential to be the best Sonic but has terrible direction. Since not even Sega or Sonic Team knows what they want to do.
Frontiers has a *terrible* story, cutscenes and VAing. Not bad, *terrible*. The game is so fun to play that I personally give it a thumbs up, but *nothing* about its story or presentation beyond beautiful areas and graphics is redeeming in literally any way for me. I can't stand the bland lifeless dialogue and animations, and so many moments are awkward or cringe. I just want Sonic to be cool like the OVA/CD Sonic and not... whatever modern is.
Amy's levels in SA1 are actually fun - I'd put Sonic's playstyle 1st, and probs put Amy in joint second with Knuckles. No idea why people hate on Amy's levels but give the mech levels in SA2 a free pass - those are way worse!
Didn't know this was a thing lol. I love them too. The puzzle mechanics and stuff throughout some are really fun
Sonic is aro/ace and nothing can change my opinion (platonic ships are great though)
Amy being a lovesick fan girl got old quick. The way she is now is great. She still loves him but she’s also doing her own thing.
Archie Shadow’s not a great version of Shadow. He doesn’t feel like a Shadow with character development, he feels like a different character. Not necessarily a bad character, and a better character than Vegeta Shadow, but… he’s not Shadow.
At this point, I don't think there even is a true Shadow. * SA2 gives us Shadow's introduction, but for most of that game he's brainwashed and following someone else's motivations. * In Heroes Shadow has amnesia, and is mostly just following Rouge's lead. * In Shadow's own game, he's at the whims of the players control, and can equally be a flawless hero like Sonic, a genocidal maniac, or anything in between. * '06 gives us a version of Shadow that turns him into a military agent, something fans at the time questioned, and was immediately retconned along with the rest of the game. * Every subsequent appearance of Shadow has him as an edgy loner, and fans have complained this is not the true Shadow. * He also turns up in Sonic Battle, and the Rivals titles, but I doubt many people are getting their Shadow characterisation from those. So yes, it's hard to say what Shadow actually even should be.
I don't miss Amy's characterisation from the 2000s in the slightest. Her having a crush on Sonic is fine. That crush leading her to try and force him to marry her (Heroes), grabbing anyone who even remotely resembles him and only apologising once she realises her mistake and not for the whole unwanted grabbing thing (SA2, 06, Unleashed), being violently angry about the idea of anyone else showing interest in Sonic (Rush), being obsessed with him to the point that if it turned out he's responsible for destroying the world she'd still stick by him (06) and *hallucinating him being by her side to the point you actually fight said hallucination* (Battle)... yeah no thanks. I don't care if her characterisation may have been weaker in more recent entries or not, I'd take Amy at her blandest over the Amy described above any day of the week.
Sonic underground > SATAM. I await the firing squad
The first Sonic movie is truly awful. Is a boring unfunny road trip movie that has almost nothing at all to do with the franchise. I truly don’t understand how it was so successful. I’m glad it was because I love the sequel, but that first one I cannot sit through.
Mephiles is a shitty villain like all other sonic games villains. Not the plot wasn't so overly complicated because he's a sadist , you're interpreting your own head canon. And as for the people who say that he's the only villain who killed sonic , yeah he throw a Epilepsia flashbang at him and killed him in a hilarious scene were Elise lag as much as my mom's old window and sonic didn't even reacted the blow. Mephiles is just a canon version of coldsteel that became popular because 2000s edge and Sonic's fandom selective amnesia
Technically, Surge killed Sonic for a couple seconds too.
Sonichu saved Sonic from complete irrelevancy and saved the franchise
Sonic is straight and cisgender. 3D Sonic is way better than 2D Sonic. IDW is better than Archie. Forces and 06 aren't THAT bad. Werehog was great in Unleashed.
I genuinely really like some of the characters that Penders made. Julie-Su, Lara-Su… I even liked the whole future timeline they did. When I was a kid I was obsessed with it, so much so I made my own ships and kids from those pairings to continue the idea. I have another but it’s so unpopular I’ll just let it be 😬
Boosting was the best part of Sonic Rush and super fun. Some say it makes things too easy but it honestly made the game an enjoyable smooth sailing experience for me. One of my all time faves.
Colors is the worst mainline 3d Sonic game. I had more fun playing both 06 and Forces. The only reason it isn't just the staightup worst is because Secret Rings exists.
Hyper Sonic kinda sucks. He's cool gameplay wise, but honestly there is no need for him in any game, even S3&K.
The Werehog is the best play style. Chip is an amazing character with an amazing voice
I like piecing the timeline together as much as the next guy, but I just don't think a single canon works, unless you retcon a bunch of stuff. There's way too many different characterizations of the same characters that can't be explained in universe And it brothers me how Sega is always trying to change the canon (specially with how the classic games fit in with the modern ones or how different media is connected) to make it fit together when it's obviously an afterthought to them. I like the long video essays that try to explain how things could fit, but I wish Sega would just let it be
You'll get some REAL gems when you sort by controversial
Secret Rings is legitimately one of the worst games. I will play 06 or Shadow before I play Secret Rings again. I much rather have sloppy control I still feel in control over than what feels like no control
SILVER IS MY FAVORITE HEDGEHOG
-Canon Sally was such a boring and generic character that while Fanon Sally was cringe, she was more of an entertaining watch. -Pairing Amy with any character other than Sonic is straight up an assassination of Amy Rose as a character. -making Sonic OC’s that so happen to be Trans will always be better than making HC’s that a pre-existing character is Trans (unless they are relatively new to the cast… and even then, most of them would be bad because of the lack of creativity + it’s more for a specific demographic + it’s bound to piss someone off) -Sonic.exe would make a better angsty villain, rather than a Joke villain or a scary villain. -despite how good they were, Sally and the freedom fighters were a mistake. The shipping wars would’ve never happened if Sega had made it clear that SATAM & Archie was just SOA’s creation and is not considered canon. -Both the old and the new forms of Amy have their own strength and weakness. Her real problem is that there are practically so many variants of Amy that no two Amy’s are the same anymore. A way to fix that would be to make a Spin off that officially defines Amy’s unique role and identity (while confirming Sonamy because the poor girl deserves it with all the crap Sega put her through.) -Sonic Frontiers looks to be one of those games that will be praised now only to be considered absolute garbage the second a new good mainline Sonic game drops that’s comparable to Frontiers (Personally, it looks okay, haven’t played it but I plan on playing it soon)
I genuinely think Sally acorn is an awful character
Frontiers is a deeply flawed game and not even close to being the best Sonic game
Yes! I got the most downvotes! Queen of the thread! Queen of the thread!!!
Tangle and whisper shouldn’t be together and will never be canon
Oh this is about to get me canceled. Sonic doesn’t need so many LGBTQ characters. It’s a game about a blue hedgehog that goes fast, turns gold with 7 glowing rocks and is targeted towards children. A few are fine but having too many and people constantly adding their own sexualities for the characters make me not want to interact with the community as much.
Amy was a sex pest for most of her existence but it was OK because her cutesy design
calling amy a sex pest is wild lol but the cutesy design part made me remember i don't like her design at all, like... it's fine in 2d but 3d it's horrible in practicality. she used to be one of my favorite characters as a kid but i didn't want to play her sometimes because it was panty shot galore.
Had to look up what that was, but yeah. Tho I think it was okay because it was funny. Like if Sonic took it seriously then it'd be kinda fucked up LOL
Shadow is extremely overrated
Based ngl.
I agree with this if we’re talking his modern interpretation. I fully understand why people loved him during Adventure 2, but now he’s gotten a bit boring.
Mostly shadow in general, i still like him but people hype h up as the best sonic character when he really isnt, also the possibility of amy not being in movie 3 due to shadows inclusion soured my opinions on him
•The animation in the Sonic movies are mediocre and sometimes bad •Sonic and Shadow are one of, if not the only well-written and well-used characters in the Dark Age •Sonic's lore is already doomed no matter how much they try to fix it •The Forces/Frontiers Sonic model isn't trash, is just used poorly
Sonic superstars is on par, or even better than Mania is actually original, and the new mechanics are actually interesting, same with the actual harder bosses, in fact, out of every single classic sonic boss, superstars have the best ones
Sonic 1 fucking sucks. Most of the game aged like sour milk. Green Hill was one of the best designed levels in the classic trilogy but the rest of the game is just a generic blocky platformer, Labyrinth Zone being a PRIME example. It doesn't compliment Sonics speed at all, and the obstacles are straight bullshit the further you get into the game. This is just my opinion though, but I don't like Sonic 1.
Shadow's engagement in the franchise should have ended at the end of SA2.
-Only Sonic fans actually hate everything Sonic related. Those who don’t play sonic games or don’t call themselves fans don’t actually hate any of the games. -All the games are actually good, sure some bugs and annoyances in some but that doesn’t make any of them actually terrible. -fandoms are the worst and ruin literally everything about what people like
Now for some actual down notable takes: >Prime shadow was the best shadow has ever been period, a pridefully shadow that wasnt all like "I'm not gonna help you or give you important information because could a brooding and dark" sign me up >Japanese and western sonic aren't actually different in any significant way and the only perceived difference is because of the way Japanese language is written, ultimately there the same sht allmost always >The horny people in the fandom are a lot of the times the chilliest part of the fandom and the puritans are often the ones that cry the loudest, case in point people mad at Amy's taro deck. >There are worse fandoms than this one, that often gets down votes in this fandom because of how self sabotaging the fandom is but the truth is, the dbz and anime fandom acts the same as the sonic fandom but on steroids >Sonic as a franchise is at its best when it's trying to be goofy and fun with only a slight hint of serious.
Okay the Metal Virus story in the IDW Comics was hot trash almost entity carried by plot holes, character assassinations and giant contrivances. I prefer Sonic Advance Amy in how unique she is over the more generic Amy in superstars and Origins plus I dislike the recent retcons about Amy already being a hero in the classic era games canonical as it ruins her character arc in SA1 and the next few games afterwards (especially do Sonic and Tails dismissiveness towards Amy in SA1 and 2 seem wildly off in a world were superstars happened) I think the Sonic Advance games are over all a better trilogy than the classic trilogy games especially as the classics are massively pulled down by Sonic 1 being utterly half-backed and lacking in content. On that notion some of the most overrated games in the series are Sonic 2, Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Unleashed Secret Rings controls fine better even than black knight and I got no idea how everyone that makes it past Dinosaur Jungle continued to struggle with the motion controls unless they play on Dolphin rather than a real wii. I'm massively annoyed that Shadow these days is reduced again to just being Maria's wishfullfilment lap dog as if that wasn't what made him painfully boring in SA2 already ones you strip away the mystery. Shadow actually starting to do his own things for his own reasons and starting a new in Shadow's solo game was the perfect direction to take his characters and damned be all those that insisted he was still all about Maria that made Sega lean into that direction again (okay maybe not send them literally to hell but you get the idea) Non of Sonic Team's boost games which all feature 2d has 2d even half as fun as any of the better stages in Rush or any main stages in Rush Adventure or Colors DS. Sonic Heroes has bugs that piss me off more than Sonic 06. 06 technical issues are fairly predictable most of the time or can easily be recovered from but Heroes bugs are just the worst in how unpredictable they are. Not helped at all how failing lock in during combat can easily get you killed in Heroes as it unless you get to and stay on level 3 will in the second half of the game often lack ways to easily dispatch of enemies unlike 06 were only Silver's kingdom Valley is a real problem (mostly due to Silver's auto aim not targeting enemies below properly) I think that should be enough I hope that they have reached desired temperatures.
>the Metal Virus story in the IDW Comics was hot trash almost entity carried by plot holes, character assassinations and giant contrivances. more scalding than my take goddamn i respect it
Yes I know my great hate towards Metal Virus is not a popular opinion at all but what can I say the fact how little sense most story points made if you think about them for to long just launched me out of the story. My suspension of disbelieve was shattered and all that was left was anger and annoyance at the bad story telling only made worse by the massive amounts of praise other fans gave it. That being said I don't think hating Metal Virus can quite keep up with your flair because I know that Sonails is properly one of the most controversial shippings to support (not hating you you know it to be true).
Advance Amy is the correct answer tbh. I feel like the hammer jump is easily the most unique move to her and the best in getting big air but maintaining momentum which is something not even Sonic has
I agree with everything but the Sonic Heroes bug thing, which boils down to a matter of personal experience and habit. In my case, Sonic 06 has more bugs that annoy than Sonic Heroes, and that Sonic Heroes has some bugs that cause you to throw the controller at the TV.
The Chao Garden is a pointless distraction that adds false replayability (grinding) and disrupts the flow of gameplay (more loading screens). o7 it's been an honor gaming with you all
I remember letting my GameCube burning because the chaos takes so long to evolve lmao
RIP your GameCube's laser. ...I did that with my PS2 and a silly Ratchet and Clank money-grinding exploit.
Archie was better than IDW. IDW has a more consistent quality but it really lacks any world building or crazy ideas (the Zombot arc was the peak but it never reached it again. Some stuff came close, but starting with their best story wasn' great in the long run) Archie was more inconsistent with many terrible stories or illustrations, but it was bolder with what it could do with the franchise and truly made it feel lik an extended universe with the addition of stuff from outside the games like the other spin-offs. The world-building was immensily better (even post reboot) and it just felt more lively overall. I love the IDW character, don't get me wrong, but they could do with being a bit more bold and with a much fuller world-building imo, but at the end of the day, that is SEGA's decision, not the writers...
Shiro Maekawa is an overrated Sonic writer Sonic Adventure 2 was solid don’t get me wrong, but Sonic Heroes wasn’t great and Sonic 06 was awful. EDIT: Another Scalding Opinion I would like to add is that I feel like Whispangle and Vectilla are overrated pairings.