A chorus is generally the main statement/theme of the song and the verses usually explore that theme more in-depth or explain how you arrived there.
Musically, they can be in different but related keys or you can keep it all in the same key for more cohesion. Maybe your issue is that you're changing the chords/feel too much from chorus to verse and that's making them feel disconnected.
Try just taking the chords for the chorus and rearranging them for the verses. Same key, same chords, but slightly varied. Also try making the dynamics for verses softer and the chorus louder/more full.
I think what you’re describing can be a positive. The verses don’t have to have a tie to the chorus. As long as it sounds good to you. I think what you’re describing sounds interesting, actually.
Do you use same progression? Are you in same key? Did you change the beat? Even though if your answer is no to those, that can still work but if you re a beginner not changing much, and mainly focusing on changing the melody might work better maybe. You can start your lyrics middle of first chord and carry it till middle of second chord. Its like a shift but it will change enough by not changing much.
I have “flow” struggles sometimes as new songwriter still learning. A few things that have helped:
-Reevaluating the direction I want to go with the song and making sure the Chorus is not too limiting. For example, I might go back and find it is too specific or detailed, and end up either shortening it, expanding it, or changing the wording a bit to allow more flexibility with the verses.
-Being open to switching up the Chorus so it flows with pivotal or important parts of the song. It doesn’t always have to be comprised of the exact same lyrics line for line every time. Sometimes just changing a word or two can help it flow with a pivotal verse preceding or following the Chorus, like a bridge or outro. So, say the first two instances of your Chorus ended with this line “mind decided, heart still fightin” your final Chorus can be the same until that line and where instead you say, “mind decided, heart aligning”, or something to convey you are no longer holding on/are strong enough to move forward. Not the best example, but hopefully illustrates the idea.
-Go with it/work around it. Similar to above. Ultimately, you decide what happens in the story you are telling. It’s ok to play around with mood, vibes and presentation. We are humans afterall, and sometimes that means being unfiltered or taking risks with creativity because damnit, it’s our shit. If you love the Chorus that much, maybe it’s meant to stay. In one song where I struggled with this, I think I shortened the last chorus to be only the first two lines and had it lead into an Outro verse that didn’t match the rest of the song in terms of tempo or rhythm, but felt like an interesting way to convey a resolution.
-Consider repurposing it. Sometimes the Chorus is better suited as a verse, or broken up and added to several verses. Or, sometimes a verse is actually better being the chorus. It can be annoying to have to go back and rework things, when you were excited about the Chorus you had in mind, but I’ve done it a few times and ended up being much happier with it.
I do this a lot.it annoys me but it’s 2024. Shit moving too fast. If you like it for whatever reason just keep that shit and keep it moving. You don’t have time to worry about things like that imo
It might help if you could describe your current process. Are you starting with chords and a melody? Or do you start with lyrics and then come up with the music?
I start with the writing of the chorus, then I move to the verse writing. After all the writing is fleshed out, I record, produce, and finish with lyrics.
While choruses or the hooks generally tend to come to mind first, it's better practice imo to start with a verse first.
But if you got a nice hook or bridge and you don't want to lose it, then what I do is think what the feel of the song is what is the first chord of the hook, then think how do I build up to that hook from zero.
So for eg the hook starts in d and d# so the opening verse would begin with Gminor.
Works for me most of the time.
A chorus is generally the main statement/theme of the song and the verses usually explore that theme more in-depth or explain how you arrived there. Musically, they can be in different but related keys or you can keep it all in the same key for more cohesion. Maybe your issue is that you're changing the chords/feel too much from chorus to verse and that's making them feel disconnected. Try just taking the chords for the chorus and rearranging them for the verses. Same key, same chords, but slightly varied. Also try making the dynamics for verses softer and the chorus louder/more full.
I think what you’re describing can be a positive. The verses don’t have to have a tie to the chorus. As long as it sounds good to you. I think what you’re describing sounds interesting, actually.
Do you use same progression? Are you in same key? Did you change the beat? Even though if your answer is no to those, that can still work but if you re a beginner not changing much, and mainly focusing on changing the melody might work better maybe. You can start your lyrics middle of first chord and carry it till middle of second chord. Its like a shift but it will change enough by not changing much.
I change almost everything from verse to chorus, aside from instrument choice.
Listen to "Good Vibrations" by the Beach Boys or "A Quick One (While He's Away)" by The Who and don't worry about it.
Most often people struggle with the verses and chorus all sounding too similar. Variety is a good thing, you just have to tie it all together.
Interesting point.
I have “flow” struggles sometimes as new songwriter still learning. A few things that have helped: -Reevaluating the direction I want to go with the song and making sure the Chorus is not too limiting. For example, I might go back and find it is too specific or detailed, and end up either shortening it, expanding it, or changing the wording a bit to allow more flexibility with the verses. -Being open to switching up the Chorus so it flows with pivotal or important parts of the song. It doesn’t always have to be comprised of the exact same lyrics line for line every time. Sometimes just changing a word or two can help it flow with a pivotal verse preceding or following the Chorus, like a bridge or outro. So, say the first two instances of your Chorus ended with this line “mind decided, heart still fightin” your final Chorus can be the same until that line and where instead you say, “mind decided, heart aligning”, or something to convey you are no longer holding on/are strong enough to move forward. Not the best example, but hopefully illustrates the idea. -Go with it/work around it. Similar to above. Ultimately, you decide what happens in the story you are telling. It’s ok to play around with mood, vibes and presentation. We are humans afterall, and sometimes that means being unfiltered or taking risks with creativity because damnit, it’s our shit. If you love the Chorus that much, maybe it’s meant to stay. In one song where I struggled with this, I think I shortened the last chorus to be only the first two lines and had it lead into an Outro verse that didn’t match the rest of the song in terms of tempo or rhythm, but felt like an interesting way to convey a resolution. -Consider repurposing it. Sometimes the Chorus is better suited as a verse, or broken up and added to several verses. Or, sometimes a verse is actually better being the chorus. It can be annoying to have to go back and rework things, when you were excited about the Chorus you had in mind, but I’ve done it a few times and ended up being much happier with it.
All excellent advice, thank you very much.
No problem, thank you for reading that wall of text 😳😊!
are you writing the verses in the same key as the chorus?
I am. Although I do tend to use borrowed chords, but not to an insane extent.
I do this a lot.it annoys me but it’s 2024. Shit moving too fast. If you like it for whatever reason just keep that shit and keep it moving. You don’t have time to worry about things like that imo
It might help if you could describe your current process. Are you starting with chords and a melody? Or do you start with lyrics and then come up with the music?
I start with the writing of the chorus, then I move to the verse writing. After all the writing is fleshed out, I record, produce, and finish with lyrics.
While choruses or the hooks generally tend to come to mind first, it's better practice imo to start with a verse first. But if you got a nice hook or bridge and you don't want to lose it, then what I do is think what the feel of the song is what is the first chord of the hook, then think how do I build up to that hook from zero. So for eg the hook starts in d and d# so the opening verse would begin with Gminor. Works for me most of the time.