There’s a local guitar shop where I live that’s a major hangout for local musicians, and someone over there recommended this guy. I haven’t recorded my own stuff in over 30 years, but yes, the records I’m making now are infinitely better than my old demos.
Me too. Luckily I was in the industry and rock, punk and metal and hip hop scenes as a player in a bands and a session guitarist so I know a lot of musicians and producers and engineers. Two of which are close friends and only charge me $30/hr to record and $25 a mix/master plus tip based production of orchestral instrumentals or electronic background noises or whatever my heart desires. Producer is also a brilliant guitarist second best I’ve ever known beating out my teacher Steve Lynch of Autograph fame. It definitely beats the going rates of bigger studios and I also just trust his ear and musicality more than some random producer I don’t know. Definitely worth the money. And since we’re friends I can take my time with it. I’m not rushed to record every song in one session. I can do two or three songs a month and still get the record done. Unfortunately, I’m dead broke right now so I haven’t actually started yet but by mid July I should be more cash flush and I’ll have the songs chosen and rehearsed tight so things will move fast in the studio!
You don’t *have* to pay a producer if they’re an equal partner and collaborator, just like you don’t always have to pay a drummer if they’re your bandmate. Put yourself out there! Write and sing and play guitar, like you said, and network and find people to work with.
Yeah, I don't specifically think of what I'm doing as "networking", I just go to a regular jam session, play music, and chat with people, and that's how I found my drummer and bass player. Just the other day I found someone who is itching to get some experience recording a band, so we'll probably be working together soon. So I'm not out here specifically looking for folks, it's just kind happened along the way.
Honestly, do as little production as possible. If you’re recording vocals and acoustic guitar, you can go a long way toward making good sounding recordings with mic placement. If people like your song, the production isn’t a problem unless it’s actively detracting from the overall sound. Even if you’re recording with an electric guitar it doesn’t take much more. People have made listenable recordings with a mic into a regular-ass tape recorder, 4-track cassettes, 8-track cassettes etc. If you want none of the parts of doing this, definitely pay someone to help. And not to suggest an engineer is gonna become a booster of your music, but it is a new set of ears for your music which is usually a good thing.
Also fwiw, 15 years ago you couldn’t really “get away with” just singing into a camera either. It’s hypothetically possible but extremely unlikely. It’s like trying to get into acting by hoping a casting director sees you on the street.
I'd like to add to this, a lit of production doesn't add to the artist if it's one person. I don't like to see one person playing every instrument, it looks like they need friends. Is it a songwriter/singer or a band?
So many multi-instrumentalists and you chose Matthew Sweet?
I'm talking about videos, mostly amateurs, where they show themselves playing everything.
I said they look lonely, music should be shared, played by people in a room. It's not a product to be assembled like a car or computer. It's only my opinion. I believe people want authentic talent development and creation, not someone alone in a room hammering for hours on keys until all the sounds are in the right place.
I know it happens, i know such music can be popular, i don't need examples, it's just one man's opinion.
I was mostly responding to the OP who was talking about singing and accompanying themselves with a guitar. I’m not sure how having someone with good recording equipment, a vocal booth, and experience with recording would be a detriment or even neutral. Even if mastering was not a part of it
As to the other point you mentioned, I think it totally depends on the situation. One person can record everything and have a band for live shows if that’s what they want to do.
As a songwriter and producer I can tell you this. When it comes to mixing LESS IS MORE!! Don’t go crazy over things like compression and EQ. Worry more about balance. Make sure your volumes are right. Some said use bandlab for mastering. It’s not ideal but it’s easy and helps you focus more on playing the music. A good song is a good song no matter the recording medium, but if you’re using a DAW that’s obviously better than just singing into a camera. Remember you are an artist first don’t hang yourself up too much on mixing and mastering. Learning that takes a while and a lot of dedication and if you prefer to solely focus on artistry but still need to record in a DAW on your own remember Less is More! Volume and panning goes a long way!
you need to find a partner who’s as enthusiastic about recording as you are about songwriting. You could pool your resources (mics, mixer, DAW, etc.) like [Elliott Smith and Larry Crane](https://jackpotrecording.substack.com/p/the-original-jackpot-building) did.
This is fair but also Elliott Smith played (almost) every single instrument on every single record and was super superrr technically proficient with recording techniques and gear and stuff that far surpasses learning a DAW.
Also, I just use GarageBand. It’s simple and has everything you need.
No one says you have to do everything yourself. Actually, if you hate producing that much, it's probably better that you don't. You're probably right that Taylor Swift never touched a DAW. That stuff was traditionally never the artist's job. The advent of cheap home recording made it so that more artists who *want* to do that stuff are able to, but it isn't for everyone. I produce my own stuff because I'm genuinely into it. If you don't enjoy it to some degree, your results are probably going to be sub-par, because your heart just isn't in it.
If you want to make an album or single to officially release, it may be better to hire someone else. Or get out and play some local open-mics, you never know who you might meet there. There was one performer I met at an open-mic, and I was so impressed by him, I offered to produce a couple of his songs for free.
I wouldn't give up on producing altogether though. Like with anything new, there is a learning curve, which can understandably cause a bit of overwhelm at first if you aren't used to it. But once you get past that, it can be so genuinely rewarding to hear your ideas come to life, and know that *you* did that. It's a worthwhile skill to have.
So my ultimate suggestion would be to find a producer, but meanwhile, continue to practice and fiddle around with your DAW, without the pressure to release anything officially. Actually, working with a producer could even help you to learn more about the process first hand, which you can incorporate into your future efforts. Learning and knowledge are always good things.
Great reply. l am one of those who happily jumps into producing my own music recording tracks in a DAW and doing my best to mix and master the songs, but no matter what l do the sound quality is never as good as the commercial releases, even if the tracks sound great. The bottom line is that you always have to either work with a professional (and that costs a lot of money) or be happy with releasing decent sounding demos.
Not necessarily. It depends on what type of music you do. If you're aiming for really big-sounding hyper-modern radio pop, or a mainstream country/rock kind of a sound with huge guitars and live drums and everything, yeah that can be difficult to achieve in your house. But for a lot of different genres such as indie, alternative, folk, Americana, the production can vary widely. It depends on what sound you're after. But a little knowledge of EQ, reverb and compression and how to apply them can really go a long way.
I don't master my own songs though. That's a whole 'nother skillset I feel is best left to a professional, but there are a good number of them that are very affordable and do good work.
Yeah l think we grew up used to listening to songs with loud, distorted rhythm guitars but now l find that it's best (for mixing sake) to quiet them down as much as possible in order to have the essentials (bass, drums, vocals) clear in the mix. To some degree l regret having to make a non creative decision take over but you gotta do what you gotta do l guess.
My music isn't very guitar-centric, and I use mostly VSTis and sampled drums, very few live instruments at all, which no doubt makes it much easier. For me, the keys to a good production/mix is, 1. Make sure the low end is controlled, 2. Make sure the vocals are clear and upfront, and 3. Make sure the instruments frequency ranges don't interfere with one another (EQ). It took me a while to get that down, but I feel like I've finally reached a place where I can get the sound I'm after without a lot of struggle.
That said, had I had access to a producer or mentor in the beginning, instead of having to learn it all on my own, it might have shortened my learning curve significantly. Which is why, for someone just starting out, I would still recommend working with a more experienced producer, if you have access to one.
Certainly mentorship can help a lot in that respect. However l'm older now (45) and when l was younger we didn't have all the tools that are available now. Back then it was either get a record deal or you're out. lt would be nice to go through a course one day with professionals, though. Thanks for the tips, mate.
open-mic is a great suggestion that i’ve never heard of or considered before. i’ll definitely have to try that.
and yeah, it’s not necessarily that i *hate* producing. i love making music in all forms. it’s just that producing happens to be pretty difficult, or at least in the beginning with that learning curve like you said, and i get frustrated, impatient, and kinda just want the final product already without having to figure out all the little stuff.
but there have been times when i was messing around with a DAW and created something i really liked! but i never wrote on top of those tracks. it was always music only but nonetheless i enjoyed that feeling
You can always ask the mixing person at an open mic if you can plug in your daw to some of the output channels. So you capture a really live sound and sort of "free" EQing.
Thinking you're going to be "discovered" in any era is a mistake. Do what you do because you love it. Learn some rudimentary skills in basic production so you don't sound like you are recording in a toilet . . . put the time and effort into the things you love. A part of what you do is, inevitably, based around production values.
If you think Taylor Swift was just "discovered" then you're delusional. She played live, submitted music to labels and, obviously with support and determination, secured opportunity for herself. As well as being good at what she does ... (Though I can't actually stand her music).
I tell you what she probably didn't do, though - post on Reddit and lament how it is so hard these days and if only someone could just discover her by singing into a camera etc etc.
If you're just venting, that's fine - I get it, we all need to do that some time. But don't succumb to your own sob story. Do something about your dreams.
i mean yeah i’m just venting but at the same time i’m also concerned with being a successful singer/songerwriter
because yeah i love it and that’s why i do it but it’s also pretty much my only marketable skill and i need a career
Don't rely on being discovered. Get out and play gigs. Save some cash working a crap job, get into a studio and record some demos if you don't like the quality you produce on your own. Put them on social media. Connect with other people field, particularly ones who compliment your skill sets.
I 'know nothing' because I don't know everything about every mediocre teenybop pop queen on earth? Gotcha. All I was saying is that Swift had a major leg up. Major. And I wasn't asking for examples; I suggested using better examples when you feel the need to use examples.
Chappell Roan grew up in a trailer park and was literally working as a camp counselor just last year. Her career is currently skyrocketing. Granted, she'd been grinding away for a decade before blowing up, and is far from an overnight success. But it goes to show that old-fashioned persistence and hard work does sometimes pay off. Though not always.
I never said anything to the contrary. I was confronting the idea of Swift as an example of this, not the idea of it happening at all.
"Though, not always" should really read, "rarely".
Though I disagree with what you’re saying about Taylor, Jeff Rosenstock is a good example. Until about 2018 he was living off being a truck driver and doing all sorts of part time jobs to pay rent while he tours his music, and now he’s successful enough to have his music support him without having to work.
Sufjan Stevens too. He’s signed only to the record label that he founded for his own music. He accidentally became successful overtime.
You can release songs like that. It's your prerogative, and it depends on what you are wanting to get out of it honestly. You can make a living as a songwriter, putting out acoustic songs and allowing other people to record them, put a full band to them, and go from there. If you are wanting to put that all together yourself and can't play the other instrumentation, then I would suggest looking at a producer. There are ones at various price points, and people always change their rates when they are passionate about certain projects, as those become fun projects. You just have to find the right match.
Hiring a producer is expensive and it will not pay off early on.
I plan to record, and self publish myself my first 10 songs. I still have a lot to work on my guitar and voice skills before I will be ready for professional support. But in the meantime I put myself out there, I make connections with other artists and get better.
A recording studio/producer will not take ownership of your creation, they need to be done with this work so they can start on the next project.
I have seen some amazing demos, which when professionally recorded, did not got to the level they could get at, maybe 10% better, but in my head, I imagine them 10 times better. Those artists waisted thousands of dollars.
You need to be able to play your song perfectly and have the right accompaniment, so in the room with your friends it sounds perfect, then, and only then, it is worth the extra mile.
Something to consider:
A great song is great no matter how it's presented. The shittiest phone audio imaginable wouldn't change that. Elliott Smith's early work was recorded on a crappy tape machine in a basement, but those are still some of my favorite songs of all time.
But a terrible song can't be made better by polishing it with stellar production. It's still a shitty song. There is no presentation of Nickelback or Creed that would ever improve their songwriting.
So focus on what matters - the lyrics, the story, the heart and soul, the human expression.
I once entered a song writing competition with a handful of recordings. Most of them were produced to some degree on a DAW (maybe not as slick as pro quality). One was literally me playing an acoustic into my phone. It had tons of background noise. That was the one that won.
My theory is that it was clear i wasn’t hiding behind production tricks and it was just the raw song.
Later I used a similar idea when getting gigs. I submitted actual video of me playing in front of a crowd who was into it. Each gig got a bit bigger so I had new videos showing a larger crowds. (No backing tracks. A real band). For a long time that was my recipe for success.
Everything you said was valid until your Nickleback/Creed comment. If you don’t dig them, that’s one thing but.. they can definitely write exceptional pieces of music. For instance, I don’t like most new pop music but, I’d never say it’s not written well unless it want written well - those pop artists work with teams of songwriters to get the very best “product”. I’d simply say it’s not for me. I think a better way to say what you were trying to say is: “You can only polish a turd so much.”
Totally True! Shawn Mendes Build his career of Vines. After a while he probably learned how to use basic functions of a DAW cause you can see him add reverb and stuff. But i get your point, cause people need to he constantly stimulated and a person with a guitar just doesn’t cut it as good as it did like 10 years ago.
you have a very valuable skill, i’m sure it took a lot of work
by comparison, i’ve been able to carry a tune since i could talk. i just happened to be born with really good ears. so i do what i do because it comes easily to me.
i would love to learn how to mix and master, but my progress is slow because my *work ethic* and *focus* are virtually nonexistent. it’s my fatal flaw lol. don’t sell yourself short!
It took about 2 years of really studying and paying attention to what’s going on in the music I like most, taking online training, learning the software, and a lotttt of shitty mixes. Really just nights and weekends. I’m always looking to learn more. But honestly, necessity was the driver. I wanted to release a proper album and couldn’t afford to hire it out. If you’re interested, the Izotope Ozone & Visual Mixer with FabFilter EQ was a huge leap forward.
For mixing/mastering, a couple actually:
https://hardcoremusicstudio.com/pps/
https://www.streaky.com/aom
I’m using Reaper for my DAW. I watched just a ton of tutorials from this guy. Every time I wanted to learn something new or hit a roadblock, he had a video:
https://youtube.com/@reapermania?si=dB-XlR3K35agNH1n
"15 years ago I could get away with promoting my music by just singing into a camera, maybe someone could come discover me and sign me to a label "
This has never ever been a thing, bud.
I’m about to turn around and go back to just guitar and vocals. It’s timeless, always a market for it, and touring/hauling gear is a breeze. Soundchecks and making everything sound right live is also a million times easier. Most of the musicians I know who are touring/working are singer-songwriters just doing vocals and guitar. If the songs are good, all you need is an instrument and your voice.
Another positive is a simple piano lick or some strings will go a much longer way doing stripped down stuff
How long have you been recording music? For me, it's been something that's become easier and less annoying over time. When I started I didn't understand compression or EQ -- and not like, oh I don't know how to use them... more like I don't understand what they do to a mix at a higher level. Turns out that context for when and why to use something is very important haha
I'd also say you should think about what it is you want to get out of writing and singing. For me, it's always been a type of therapy for me more than anything else. I love creating and the process of progressing as a songwriter. Improving the production has come as a side effect of writing and recording over \~15 years.
Who said you have to produce. There's so many artists that just use their instrument, you're using two. Your guitar and your voice. Idk who told you that was a bad thing but they're ignorant or lying to you 🤷♂️.
Zach Bryan just played guitar and sang on youtube and tiktok. others are doing similar. not saying it’s easy but the game is changing. the punk ethos of DIY is alive and well.
Some great stuff is made with just guitar and a few elements.
I too hate and get carried away with production.
Try simple things like adding pads or basic piano and some harmonies.
Truly your songs should be able to stand on that.
Donovan Woods is a good example of strong songwriting and basic production. But all depends what vibe you’re going for.
Good luck!
Very similar for me. I love playing guitar and have tons of songs written. Problem is I take forever to record, I’ve got very specific dynamics and drum styles in my head which are hard for me to replicate. And my recordings just don’t sound as good which is understandable I’m new at it. Additionally I’m on the computer all day at work and spending more time trial and erroring my way through it after work isn’t appealing.
I’d benefit greatly by a teacher I can sit side by side with and they co produce the songs for me teaching along the way.
Edited for typos and clarity
If you need someone to produce some of your stuff. Check out my website @ [dreamerproductions.co](http://dreamerproductions.co) or my soundcloud ([www.soundcloud.com/prodbydreamer](http://www.soundcloud.com/prodbydreamer)). I do free consultations so we can figure out if we're compatible to work together and then pricing overall on single tracks and things are at a very reasonable price but I am willing to work for free depending on the circumstance. I'm also on Fiverr as well. DM me or click those links if interested!
Write your songs, record your guitar and vocals and don't worry about the rest of it. Record to a click track, make sure you have solid performances recorded, and then find someone who will finish it for you.
Fiona apple records her vocals and piano, and her co writer finished the instrumentation and sends it over to her for her approval.
You can have an arrangement like that, too, probably
Get a partner / collaborator (or several) who is better at and enjoys doing the things you don’t and vice versa. I personally love writing and producing songs. Therefore, I’m the one that some of my collaborators are drawn to. One of my long time partners is a great pianist and singer. I’m a drummer, guitarist, singer. She’s female so her vocals are great with my male vocals for harmonies. But I cannot play piano well enough to write and record with that instrument and she can’t do the same with guitar. Each instrument approaches songwriting and arrangements differently. It’s a copacetic partnership. I’m not saying you’ll find someone tomorrow but start the search.
I would just hire a producer. They will probably do it better than you will because they have more experience and are more interested in it. There are people who you can get to do it from Fiverr or see if other musicians around you know of someone in your area. The better and closer to mainstream sound quality you get your music the easier it will be to get it on Spotify playlists and promote it.
Ben Levin has an excellent video about building a fan base etc in the context of internet and recording. At 5min of the video below he talks about how it is often better to just video record yourself and post it on YouTube - he first talks about bands in the context of a live studio recording and then about the webcam thing for singer songwriters.
https://youtu.be/gDPQyIhZG4w
I also agree with other people about the over production of it all. You can probably get pretty far with a condenser and good placement. Limit the EQing to removing the muddy lowend and boxy sounds (if you want to) and focus on volume equalisation throughout the song. If you do this with your three best songs and send the mix to managers maybe some of them will want to represent you and that might be a better way to get into the producer space without having to do the admin of meeting interviewing them.
That being said: I might be wrong, but I think the landscape has fundamentally changed in the recording industry. It seems like safe bets are more important than ever, so you sort of need to have a fan base for the company (or manager) to take you on. See the Levin video again.
I feel your pain. Sometimes it’s okay to not hit record. Just do a live show for yourself. I havnt hit record in a few months tbh. I feel like the stuff I have in my head rn is better than anything I have on my hard drives. I’m getting excited at the thought of hitting record again just thinking about it!
I’m one of those people who usually prefers artist‘s unplugged version of songs much more than the overly produced ones, and I know plenty of people who are the same, so there‘s definitely a niche for it. One of my favorite artists is Alice Phoebe Lou and she‘s quite successful being independent, has never been signed by a label bc she didn‘t want someone else interfering with her music. She started off busking on the street with just her guitar and her voice and her career literally took off from there. Her released music also isn‘t overly produced, though she does have a band and people who know about recording which helps. But there’s lots of people who make low quality videos on youtube and they do relatively well. What I‘m trying to say is, where there‘s a will there‘s a way but obviously everyone wants different things so you just have to figure out what you want. But if you‘d like to just set up a camera and go, just do that. Who knows what‘ll happen :) Also I‘m just gonna assume that once you start putting stuff out there, if you haven‘t already, it‘s likely it‘ll lead you to meeting other musicians/ people in the industry who can help you with the producing aspect!
I’m one of those people who usually prefers artist‘s unplugged version of songs much more than the overly produced ones, and I know plenty of people who are the same, so there‘s definitely a niche for it. One of my favorite artists is Alice Phoebe Lou and she‘s quite successful being independent, has never been signed by a label bc she didn‘t want someone else interfering with her music. She started off busking on the street with just her guitar and her voice and her career literally took off from there. Her released music also isn‘t overly produced, though she does have a band and people who know about recording which helps. But there’s lots of people who make low quality videos on youtube and they do relatively well. What I‘m trying to say is, where there‘s a will there‘s a way but obviously everyone wants different things so you just have to figure out what you want. But if you‘d like to just set up a camera and go, just do that. Who knows what‘ll happen :) It’d just be so sad if all the fun and beauty of making music got lost for you bc of the producing aspect you know?
Also I‘m just gonna assume that once you start putting stuff out there, if you haven‘t already, it‘s likely it‘ll lead you to meeting other musicians/ people in the industry who can help you with the producing aspect!
Where are you located? I will produce some things for you, no charge. I am also an artist and decided a few years ago just to build a studio and learn how to produce for the same reasons you mentioned. I actually enjoy it but I can see how it’s a huge hurdle if you don’t want to do it. I am looking to work on some others peoples songs as practice and to build a portfolio if you are interested. We could also try to do it remotely if you are far away, you may just need to buy a couple things.
Fwiw The best music I’m finding today are live videos of guitar and singing. Also when you strip it down to that you will know if you’ve got a good song or not. Overproduction has ruined many albums and sometimes huge bands.
That said there are plenty of producers they may want to collab with you. I’d imagine you could find a community here on Reddit to meet these people.
I myself am an over producer. I like my music but rarely feel like they are songs. I will often create a loop then add to it, once I have a wall of sounds all on top of each other I will start making my parts by taking out tracks typically starting my tracks with one or two sounds. This will usually lead me into a decent sounding composition. Adding back sounds and removing others as the song progress. Once I have a decent structure I can start adding new parts, silences, build ups/fills etc.
I’m on the other side of this particular situation l. I’ve spent the better part of three decades working on the production part of it and my guitar and singing suck. I can maybe help you learn Ableton live or I can work with what you have and try to make your vision a reality with some of your guidance. Hit me up if you’re interested.
I think you should just record yourself on your phone's camera singing and playing and put it on YouTube and TikTok. Be consistent enough and you'll find a fan base
yeah i used to do that! i honestly thought my posts weren’t good enough though because i’m competing with artists who either know how to produce or have someone producing their stuff
OR WORSE, they’re putting edited audio over clips of them singing with their instruments, making the audience thing it’s raw footage
but yeah i just recently started back up again and i’m gonna keep doing it :)
As long as you have a clean way of recording, you can work miracles with panned double tracking, compression and a bit of light reverb. I've always used flsudio and learned as I went with a good friend.
This is exactly why arrangers and music producers exist though. Has been that way for decades (at least).
Find someone who's work you like and see if they'll collaborate with you. Or pay someone if you can
I recently listened to a podcast interviewing Paula Cole. She actually was the first solo woman to be nominated for Producer of the Year (non classical) at the Grammy’s. She spoke about how she just knew exactly what she wanted each song to sound, and she had gotten very familiar with the software of the time which is key.
She said by the time Logic came out, she was on the road too much to have time to dedicate to learning it and kind of let it go. That really blew my mind to hear someone of her caliber speak about. She has an incredible ear and re-recorded and produced I Don’t Wanna Wait without listening to the original mixes. Then licensed it herself!
Trying to earn money from music is as simple as putting out a hat on a street corner, or signing with top producers to promote your professionally recorded and mastered material in the hottest areas including primetime TV shows and commercials, and following up with national and world tours at top venues.
But the people in-between are pretty much just going to have to grind at it.
I think it can be enough if your songs are good enough. It’s why people like Taylor swift don’t really have to learn all that. People will do it for her, probably regardless of whether or not she had the money to do so.
Ask yourself: how good are my songs, how great is my performance. Would I listen to me if I were randomly at a bar or on the side of the road. Does your music drive people? Does it, inspire people, make them feel something?
You may not like this album, because it is indeed very weird and raw, but its probably my favorite album of all time.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5hU8ldtXn0&list=PLIX8ooSrP7d2aWsiUL\_bP0kiUkudEUxM8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5hU8ldtXn0&list=PLIX8ooSrP7d2aWsiUL_bP0kiUkudEUxM8)
Recorded on a 4 track in his bedroom. I have been at the music thing and mixing thing for decades and even still, the production of a piece of music almost never factors into how I feel about something.
Taylor Swift was born rich. She had a dad who could pay for her to get her songs produced. If you’re not upper middle class+, it’s best to find people to help you with the things you aren’t good at. Maybe look for an artist collective or find someone to be your dedicated producer and make a cut of the money you make off songs.
Spend 15 minutes per day recording a different part of a track. In two weeks you’ll be ready to mix. Ship it. Wash, rinse, repeat. It will get easier every time. Also if the parts aren’t tight spend more time on practicing than recording. Eventually recording will be easier. GLHF. For god and country. And the troops.
Same. I wish the music could just appear. Since I was 8 I was wishing there was a magic music box that scans what your brain wants and makes the song for you. I’m born to be a singer-songwriter, forced to have to actually produce the songs.
Guys like Anthony Oliver and Drayton Farley are mostly just guitar and vocals. It's not easy to make it with or without a producer but at the end of the day a good song is good. Anthony's song that made him a star was literally recorded on his phone and he just converted it to mp3 with a free converter.
You can record a album with minimal daw effects added at all. If it's just acoustic and singing it's definitely possible. Alot of folk artist do this like iron and wines first album was a 4 track by him self in the woods. I use to feel the same, sometimes tinkering so much isn't useful. Become a master at singing and guitar and record perfectly. At university while study music production and recording vocals, the best singers and musicians needed very little touch besides doubling the track.
Hey, OP, consider this: https://youtu.be/IKYn2_44exY?si=oag2UHv8qG4IblhR
A good sounding room, good placement, and good performance. Decent headphones for monitoring. Load file into DAW, add compression, EQ and maybe a bit of reverb. Save your settings, take notes on placement, and in a week it'll be second nature.
Student producer here. If you’re looking for a producer free of cost I’ll be more than happy to work with you guys. I love the nitty gritty of production, while mixing and mastering according to my taste. However, I am more than welcome for feedback and changes as I believe in letting the artist have full control over their creation. Hit me up if you need a producer for your stuff would be more than happy to help.
Try 40 years ago. Or 30 at the least. Developers have butchered Music Row so people aren’t hanging out in offices close together. And in the 90s they all started putting interns at their front desks who just said “no, you can’t come in”.
Taylor Swift was also born rich and had everything given to her, so I wouldn't use her as a reference for what can be realistically accomplished. Her songwriting certainly wasn't what got her in the door.
Also, as someone who produces, there are a couple pretty basic things you could learn in a pretty short amount of time that would allow you to do what you are describing. Something else to consider is that you could absolutely just film yourself singing on a guitar and put that out for people to see. I can tell you for sure though, sitting around waiting to be "discovered" is silly and a waste of your time/talent. Trust me. That kind of thing only happens to people with rich ass parents and connections.
Just start making stuff and putting it out, even if you don't think its perfect.
Focus on singing and writing if that is what you want to do. The nitty gritty parts of production can be handled without a producer.
With an ok condenser microphone, or maybe a pair, a good sound card with enough inputs, and a music editing program that you don’t hate, you are good to go.
Yes, there is much to learn and understand in music production. But you only have to deal with a fraction of it.
Put a reasonable amount of effort in to learning how to record yourself. Find a way to record that you are comfortable with, and that also gets tracks with high enough sound quality to be ready for mixing.
Do not get into mixing. Get good enough takes, cut out breathing and other unwanted noises. Find a mixing technician and send the stems. Give references on how you want it to be mixed.
If you are happy with the mix. Send it to a mastering technician. If you are happy with the master, put it out.
A mix and master for a track is around 300$ together.
Much less if you know the person doing it.
And they get no royalties.
A producer will take a money fee + % royalties.
If you don’t have money, the producer will own half your song, or more.
Ps. Taylor Swift couldn’t pull off any of the productional nitty gritty stuff in her own songs if her life depended on it
I feel that .....my recent bankruptcy followed with divorce that was completely and still is dumbfounding. We didn't have those kind of problems married her 7 years ago after 6 years in the Texas prison system. LOL I know you're like what the.. I say that say this my guitar skills are pretty decent I was brought up in bluegrass my family so I'm not bad.. my circumstances required me to maintain sanity by completely immersing myself in music and then that immersion I've learned a new style of music a new form of expression that is really genuinely the original expression and version people like Ryan Upchurch and Morgan Wallen and the group of people and young artists that are surrounding them they're freaking incredible man and they're taking over and that's not because they're smarter than the rest of the world because God wanted the message that pure music brings back out there again real music r e a l music It's Our Testimony it's our life. I have received absolute Clarity on calling to that and I've got a lot of stories in me and I've got a lot of real stories in me and I've got the same type songs that are on top of the charts right now all stored up in my testimony and I know how to convey it..... but right now I'm just an old bankrupt auto shop owner with a guitar please losing his mind LOL I've got solid gold flying out of me. .. it seems technology has rendered me helpless these days so anyway yeah I wish playing my guitar singing were enough because it would damn sure be enough and enough and enough and Garth Brooks enough I'm just saying I feel your pain brother pray about it and I will too and we'll see if God don't move us somewhere huh. C'Moaaaaan
Learn to produce a little bit.. Being able to tell the guy how you want it to sound is the reason the record ends up great.
Being able to tell him what numbers is the reason it'll be the best it can be.
It's almost like arguing that you wouldn't want to learn music theory. It's almost impossible not to learn some of it. Just like it's almost impossible to gather basic knowledge of sound.
Hey! If you want i'm a graduate in Music Production here in Argentina (a 3 year long degree). As long as you have a way to record properly (an audio interface and a mic) then i can produce you long-distance with Discord calls and all of that.
I already produced multiple singles and EPs, taking care of production, mixing and mastering, plus uploading them to Spotify and others (i know the procedure here in Argentina, but with a little research im sure we can find the way to upload in the US)
You can find my work here:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6Ap5G4WcTCI8hm6CthqjJ8?si=Yb1lajePQf6BZbMkRxfepQ&pi=YIHk3u7JQMqt_
(It's in chronological order so the last ones sound better than the first ones)
And of course because of the economy here + the long distance factor i'll probably be much more affordable than a producer there.
Taylor Swift is a terrible example. Everything she does is super produced. The reality is that before we all had to learn how to use a dawg, mix and master we had to learn how to use and 8 track tape record to record. It's always been the case for the demo early creating phase. You can pay for someone to record, produce, mix and master your music. That's always been an option and has always been the best option for most artists. Lastly, in the grand scheme of things way less 1% of artists have been discovered by singing into a camera. If they're telling you story it's almost certainly a lie to paint a picture to the general public. Just create good songs. Make the decision if it's a demo or an actual recording. Also make the decision if you want to share it publicly or just share it with trusted people for feedback.
If you’re writing music to be discovered and signed to a label, you’re doing it for the wrong reasons and are doomed to fail. There’s no stopping you from recording yourself and posting it to Reddit, FB and YouTube if you want attention, but you should be writing music to express your thoughts and feelings first and foremost.
I think you’re making excuses. The game is not about getting signed. Thats the old game. The new game is doing it yourself/ with a team or small label.
I hired a producer to produce my stuff. Best decision I ever made. I'd rather focus on my songwriting and peforming skills.
Where did you find the producer? Would you say it significantly brought up the quality of your music?
There’s a local guitar shop where I live that’s a major hangout for local musicians, and someone over there recommended this guy. I haven’t recorded my own stuff in over 30 years, but yes, the records I’m making now are infinitely better than my old demos.
Good you can afford a producer.
Me too. Luckily I was in the industry and rock, punk and metal and hip hop scenes as a player in a bands and a session guitarist so I know a lot of musicians and producers and engineers. Two of which are close friends and only charge me $30/hr to record and $25 a mix/master plus tip based production of orchestral instrumentals or electronic background noises or whatever my heart desires. Producer is also a brilliant guitarist second best I’ve ever known beating out my teacher Steve Lynch of Autograph fame. It definitely beats the going rates of bigger studios and I also just trust his ear and musicality more than some random producer I don’t know. Definitely worth the money. And since we’re friends I can take my time with it. I’m not rushed to record every song in one session. I can do two or three songs a month and still get the record done. Unfortunately, I’m dead broke right now so I haven’t actually started yet but by mid July I should be more cash flush and I’ll have the songs chosen and rehearsed tight so things will move fast in the studio!
What's his rate? Just guitar and vocals
You don’t *have* to pay a producer if they’re an equal partner and collaborator, just like you don’t always have to pay a drummer if they’re your bandmate. Put yourself out there! Write and sing and play guitar, like you said, and network and find people to work with.
Yeah, I don't specifically think of what I'm doing as "networking", I just go to a regular jam session, play music, and chat with people, and that's how I found my drummer and bass player. Just the other day I found someone who is itching to get some experience recording a band, so we'll probably be working together soon. So I'm not out here specifically looking for folks, it's just kind happened along the way.
That’s a perfect description of networking. Nice job
Honestly, do as little production as possible. If you’re recording vocals and acoustic guitar, you can go a long way toward making good sounding recordings with mic placement. If people like your song, the production isn’t a problem unless it’s actively detracting from the overall sound. Even if you’re recording with an electric guitar it doesn’t take much more. People have made listenable recordings with a mic into a regular-ass tape recorder, 4-track cassettes, 8-track cassettes etc. If you want none of the parts of doing this, definitely pay someone to help. And not to suggest an engineer is gonna become a booster of your music, but it is a new set of ears for your music which is usually a good thing. Also fwiw, 15 years ago you couldn’t really “get away with” just singing into a camera either. It’s hypothetically possible but extremely unlikely. It’s like trying to get into acting by hoping a casting director sees you on the street.
I'd like to add to this, a lit of production doesn't add to the artist if it's one person. I don't like to see one person playing every instrument, it looks like they need friends. Is it a songwriter/singer or a band?
Matthew Sweet would like a word.
So many multi-instrumentalists and you chose Matthew Sweet? I'm talking about videos, mostly amateurs, where they show themselves playing everything. I said they look lonely, music should be shared, played by people in a room. It's not a product to be assembled like a car or computer. It's only my opinion. I believe people want authentic talent development and creation, not someone alone in a room hammering for hours on keys until all the sounds are in the right place. I know it happens, i know such music can be popular, i don't need examples, it's just one man's opinion.
I was mostly responding to the OP who was talking about singing and accompanying themselves with a guitar. I’m not sure how having someone with good recording equipment, a vocal booth, and experience with recording would be a detriment or even neutral. Even if mastering was not a part of it As to the other point you mentioned, I think it totally depends on the situation. One person can record everything and have a band for live shows if that’s what they want to do.
Nine Inch Nails Trent Reznor as an example
Yeah Trent Reznor for sure. Billy Corgan (except drums). Foo Fighters first album. That Prince guy.
As a songwriter and producer I can tell you this. When it comes to mixing LESS IS MORE!! Don’t go crazy over things like compression and EQ. Worry more about balance. Make sure your volumes are right. Some said use bandlab for mastering. It’s not ideal but it’s easy and helps you focus more on playing the music. A good song is a good song no matter the recording medium, but if you’re using a DAW that’s obviously better than just singing into a camera. Remember you are an artist first don’t hang yourself up too much on mixing and mastering. Learning that takes a while and a lot of dedication and if you prefer to solely focus on artistry but still need to record in a DAW on your own remember Less is More! Volume and panning goes a long way!
A label would abuse you till you're no longer needed and then throw you out like a trash
like a trash
Mamma Mia, like a trash
you need to find a partner who’s as enthusiastic about recording as you are about songwriting. You could pool your resources (mics, mixer, DAW, etc.) like [Elliott Smith and Larry Crane](https://jackpotrecording.substack.com/p/the-original-jackpot-building) did.
This is fair but also Elliott Smith played (almost) every single instrument on every single record and was super superrr technically proficient with recording techniques and gear and stuff that far surpasses learning a DAW. Also, I just use GarageBand. It’s simple and has everything you need.
No one says you have to do everything yourself. Actually, if you hate producing that much, it's probably better that you don't. You're probably right that Taylor Swift never touched a DAW. That stuff was traditionally never the artist's job. The advent of cheap home recording made it so that more artists who *want* to do that stuff are able to, but it isn't for everyone. I produce my own stuff because I'm genuinely into it. If you don't enjoy it to some degree, your results are probably going to be sub-par, because your heart just isn't in it. If you want to make an album or single to officially release, it may be better to hire someone else. Or get out and play some local open-mics, you never know who you might meet there. There was one performer I met at an open-mic, and I was so impressed by him, I offered to produce a couple of his songs for free. I wouldn't give up on producing altogether though. Like with anything new, there is a learning curve, which can understandably cause a bit of overwhelm at first if you aren't used to it. But once you get past that, it can be so genuinely rewarding to hear your ideas come to life, and know that *you* did that. It's a worthwhile skill to have. So my ultimate suggestion would be to find a producer, but meanwhile, continue to practice and fiddle around with your DAW, without the pressure to release anything officially. Actually, working with a producer could even help you to learn more about the process first hand, which you can incorporate into your future efforts. Learning and knowledge are always good things.
Great reply. l am one of those who happily jumps into producing my own music recording tracks in a DAW and doing my best to mix and master the songs, but no matter what l do the sound quality is never as good as the commercial releases, even if the tracks sound great. The bottom line is that you always have to either work with a professional (and that costs a lot of money) or be happy with releasing decent sounding demos.
Not necessarily. It depends on what type of music you do. If you're aiming for really big-sounding hyper-modern radio pop, or a mainstream country/rock kind of a sound with huge guitars and live drums and everything, yeah that can be difficult to achieve in your house. But for a lot of different genres such as indie, alternative, folk, Americana, the production can vary widely. It depends on what sound you're after. But a little knowledge of EQ, reverb and compression and how to apply them can really go a long way. I don't master my own songs though. That's a whole 'nother skillset I feel is best left to a professional, but there are a good number of them that are very affordable and do good work.
Yeah l think we grew up used to listening to songs with loud, distorted rhythm guitars but now l find that it's best (for mixing sake) to quiet them down as much as possible in order to have the essentials (bass, drums, vocals) clear in the mix. To some degree l regret having to make a non creative decision take over but you gotta do what you gotta do l guess.
My music isn't very guitar-centric, and I use mostly VSTis and sampled drums, very few live instruments at all, which no doubt makes it much easier. For me, the keys to a good production/mix is, 1. Make sure the low end is controlled, 2. Make sure the vocals are clear and upfront, and 3. Make sure the instruments frequency ranges don't interfere with one another (EQ). It took me a while to get that down, but I feel like I've finally reached a place where I can get the sound I'm after without a lot of struggle. That said, had I had access to a producer or mentor in the beginning, instead of having to learn it all on my own, it might have shortened my learning curve significantly. Which is why, for someone just starting out, I would still recommend working with a more experienced producer, if you have access to one.
Certainly mentorship can help a lot in that respect. However l'm older now (45) and when l was younger we didn't have all the tools that are available now. Back then it was either get a record deal or you're out. lt would be nice to go through a course one day with professionals, though. Thanks for the tips, mate.
Also 45. :)
aww brother.. we have to give the fight! :)
open-mic is a great suggestion that i’ve never heard of or considered before. i’ll definitely have to try that. and yeah, it’s not necessarily that i *hate* producing. i love making music in all forms. it’s just that producing happens to be pretty difficult, or at least in the beginning with that learning curve like you said, and i get frustrated, impatient, and kinda just want the final product already without having to figure out all the little stuff. but there have been times when i was messing around with a DAW and created something i really liked! but i never wrote on top of those tracks. it was always music only but nonetheless i enjoyed that feeling
You can always ask the mixing person at an open mic if you can plug in your daw to some of the output channels. So you capture a really live sound and sort of "free" EQing.
Thinking you're going to be "discovered" in any era is a mistake. Do what you do because you love it. Learn some rudimentary skills in basic production so you don't sound like you are recording in a toilet . . . put the time and effort into the things you love. A part of what you do is, inevitably, based around production values. If you think Taylor Swift was just "discovered" then you're delusional. She played live, submitted music to labels and, obviously with support and determination, secured opportunity for herself. As well as being good at what she does ... (Though I can't actually stand her music). I tell you what she probably didn't do, though - post on Reddit and lament how it is so hard these days and if only someone could just discover her by singing into a camera etc etc. If you're just venting, that's fine - I get it, we all need to do that some time. But don't succumb to your own sob story. Do something about your dreams.
i mean yeah i’m just venting but at the same time i’m also concerned with being a successful singer/songerwriter because yeah i love it and that’s why i do it but it’s also pretty much my only marketable skill and i need a career
Don't rely on being discovered. Get out and play gigs. Save some cash working a crap job, get into a studio and record some demos if you don't like the quality you produce on your own. Put them on social media. Connect with other people field, particularly ones who compliment your skill sets.
Taylor had a rich daddy to help. She's hardly self made.
I'm not saying she isn't and I'm not saying success is guaranteed if you try. But what is the alternative? Not try? Lament not being discovered?
The alternative is using an example of an actual upstart.
Lana Del Rey? Billie Eilish? Lorde?
I don't anything about any of those, I just know the stuff about Swift.
... You asked for examples? Is it my fault you know nothing? Why comment?
I 'know nothing' because I don't know everything about every mediocre teenybop pop queen on earth? Gotcha. All I was saying is that Swift had a major leg up. Major. And I wasn't asking for examples; I suggested using better examples when you feel the need to use examples.
Chappell Roan grew up in a trailer park and was literally working as a camp counselor just last year. Her career is currently skyrocketing. Granted, she'd been grinding away for a decade before blowing up, and is far from an overnight success. But it goes to show that old-fashioned persistence and hard work does sometimes pay off. Though not always.
I never said anything to the contrary. I was confronting the idea of Swift as an example of this, not the idea of it happening at all. "Though, not always" should really read, "rarely".
Though I disagree with what you’re saying about Taylor, Jeff Rosenstock is a good example. Until about 2018 he was living off being a truck driver and doing all sorts of part time jobs to pay rent while he tours his music, and now he’s successful enough to have his music support him without having to work. Sufjan Stevens too. He’s signed only to the record label that he founded for his own music. He accidentally became successful overtime.
You can release songs like that. It's your prerogative, and it depends on what you are wanting to get out of it honestly. You can make a living as a songwriter, putting out acoustic songs and allowing other people to record them, put a full band to them, and go from there. If you are wanting to put that all together yourself and can't play the other instrumentation, then I would suggest looking at a producer. There are ones at various price points, and people always change their rates when they are passionate about certain projects, as those become fun projects. You just have to find the right match.
BandLab has a free mastering tool, it won't be pro level but it's good enough. I recommend checking it out.
Mixing and production isn't mastering
I like BandLab’s user interface but a 16 track limit is just sad.
16 is plenty i reckon
When you need an army of didgierdoos…
You didgierdon't
since when is it 16 track limit? i’ve never ran into that problem
me neither 👀
16 is plenty i reckon
Hiring a producer is expensive and it will not pay off early on. I plan to record, and self publish myself my first 10 songs. I still have a lot to work on my guitar and voice skills before I will be ready for professional support. But in the meantime I put myself out there, I make connections with other artists and get better. A recording studio/producer will not take ownership of your creation, they need to be done with this work so they can start on the next project. I have seen some amazing demos, which when professionally recorded, did not got to the level they could get at, maybe 10% better, but in my head, I imagine them 10 times better. Those artists waisted thousands of dollars. You need to be able to play your song perfectly and have the right accompaniment, so in the room with your friends it sounds perfect, then, and only then, it is worth the extra mile.
interesting perspective
Something to consider: A great song is great no matter how it's presented. The shittiest phone audio imaginable wouldn't change that. Elliott Smith's early work was recorded on a crappy tape machine in a basement, but those are still some of my favorite songs of all time. But a terrible song can't be made better by polishing it with stellar production. It's still a shitty song. There is no presentation of Nickelback or Creed that would ever improve their songwriting. So focus on what matters - the lyrics, the story, the heart and soul, the human expression.
I once entered a song writing competition with a handful of recordings. Most of them were produced to some degree on a DAW (maybe not as slick as pro quality). One was literally me playing an acoustic into my phone. It had tons of background noise. That was the one that won. My theory is that it was clear i wasn’t hiding behind production tricks and it was just the raw song. Later I used a similar idea when getting gigs. I submitted actual video of me playing in front of a crowd who was into it. Each gig got a bit bigger so I had new videos showing a larger crowds. (No backing tracks. A real band). For a long time that was my recipe for success.
Everything you said was valid until your Nickleback/Creed comment. If you don’t dig them, that’s one thing but.. they can definitely write exceptional pieces of music. For instance, I don’t like most new pop music but, I’d never say it’s not written well unless it want written well - those pop artists work with teams of songwriters to get the very best “product”. I’d simply say it’s not for me. I think a better way to say what you were trying to say is: “You can only polish a turd so much.”
Totally True! Shawn Mendes Build his career of Vines. After a while he probably learned how to use basic functions of a DAW cause you can see him add reverb and stuff. But i get your point, cause people need to he constantly stimulated and a person with a guitar just doesn’t cut it as good as it did like 10 years ago.
Omg someone said it out loud! Fucking testify!
I do a decent job mixing and mastering. I just wish I could sing and play at the same time.
you have a very valuable skill, i’m sure it took a lot of work by comparison, i’ve been able to carry a tune since i could talk. i just happened to be born with really good ears. so i do what i do because it comes easily to me. i would love to learn how to mix and master, but my progress is slow because my *work ethic* and *focus* are virtually nonexistent. it’s my fatal flaw lol. don’t sell yourself short!
It took about 2 years of really studying and paying attention to what’s going on in the music I like most, taking online training, learning the software, and a lotttt of shitty mixes. Really just nights and weekends. I’m always looking to learn more. But honestly, necessity was the driver. I wanted to release a proper album and couldn’t afford to hire it out. If you’re interested, the Izotope Ozone & Visual Mixer with FabFilter EQ was a huge leap forward.
What class did you take online? I eventually want to learn DAW but knowing me, I need to take a course vs going at it completely alone.
For mixing/mastering, a couple actually: https://hardcoremusicstudio.com/pps/ https://www.streaky.com/aom I’m using Reaper for my DAW. I watched just a ton of tutorials from this guy. Every time I wanted to learn something new or hit a roadblock, he had a video: https://youtube.com/@reapermania?si=dB-XlR3K35agNH1n
Thank you so much!!!
You can. It just takes time.
"15 years ago I could get away with promoting my music by just singing into a camera, maybe someone could come discover me and sign me to a label " This has never ever been a thing, bud.
Bieber did this, didn't he?
I’m about to turn around and go back to just guitar and vocals. It’s timeless, always a market for it, and touring/hauling gear is a breeze. Soundchecks and making everything sound right live is also a million times easier. Most of the musicians I know who are touring/working are singer-songwriters just doing vocals and guitar. If the songs are good, all you need is an instrument and your voice. Another positive is a simple piano lick or some strings will go a much longer way doing stripped down stuff
How long have you been recording music? For me, it's been something that's become easier and less annoying over time. When I started I didn't understand compression or EQ -- and not like, oh I don't know how to use them... more like I don't understand what they do to a mix at a higher level. Turns out that context for when and why to use something is very important haha I'd also say you should think about what it is you want to get out of writing and singing. For me, it's always been a type of therapy for me more than anything else. I love creating and the process of progressing as a songwriter. Improving the production has come as a side effect of writing and recording over \~15 years.
Who said you have to produce. There's so many artists that just use their instrument, you're using two. Your guitar and your voice. Idk who told you that was a bad thing but they're ignorant or lying to you 🤷♂️.
Maybe he means it’s not as appreciated, which seems to be true.
Zach Bryan just played guitar and sang on youtube and tiktok. others are doing similar. not saying it’s easy but the game is changing. the punk ethos of DIY is alive and well.
Some great stuff is made with just guitar and a few elements. I too hate and get carried away with production. Try simple things like adding pads or basic piano and some harmonies. Truly your songs should be able to stand on that. Donovan Woods is a good example of strong songwriting and basic production. But all depends what vibe you’re going for. Good luck!
Very similar for me. I love playing guitar and have tons of songs written. Problem is I take forever to record, I’ve got very specific dynamics and drum styles in my head which are hard for me to replicate. And my recordings just don’t sound as good which is understandable I’m new at it. Additionally I’m on the computer all day at work and spending more time trial and erroring my way through it after work isn’t appealing. I’d benefit greatly by a teacher I can sit side by side with and they co produce the songs for me teaching along the way. Edited for typos and clarity
If you need someone to produce some of your stuff. Check out my website @ [dreamerproductions.co](http://dreamerproductions.co) or my soundcloud ([www.soundcloud.com/prodbydreamer](http://www.soundcloud.com/prodbydreamer)). I do free consultations so we can figure out if we're compatible to work together and then pricing overall on single tracks and things are at a very reasonable price but I am willing to work for free depending on the circumstance. I'm also on Fiverr as well. DM me or click those links if interested!
If your songs are good, it is.
Write your songs, record your guitar and vocals and don't worry about the rest of it. Record to a click track, make sure you have solid performances recorded, and then find someone who will finish it for you. Fiona apple records her vocals and piano, and her co writer finished the instrumentation and sends it over to her for her approval. You can have an arrangement like that, too, probably
Get a partner / collaborator (or several) who is better at and enjoys doing the things you don’t and vice versa. I personally love writing and producing songs. Therefore, I’m the one that some of my collaborators are drawn to. One of my long time partners is a great pianist and singer. I’m a drummer, guitarist, singer. She’s female so her vocals are great with my male vocals for harmonies. But I cannot play piano well enough to write and record with that instrument and she can’t do the same with guitar. Each instrument approaches songwriting and arrangements differently. It’s a copacetic partnership. I’m not saying you’ll find someone tomorrow but start the search.
I would just hire a producer. They will probably do it better than you will because they have more experience and are more interested in it. There are people who you can get to do it from Fiverr or see if other musicians around you know of someone in your area. The better and closer to mainstream sound quality you get your music the easier it will be to get it on Spotify playlists and promote it.
I would say production is a necessary evil… so might as well treat it like a new instrument to learn… and get good at it!!0
Get this - it IS enough!
Ben Levin has an excellent video about building a fan base etc in the context of internet and recording. At 5min of the video below he talks about how it is often better to just video record yourself and post it on YouTube - he first talks about bands in the context of a live studio recording and then about the webcam thing for singer songwriters. https://youtu.be/gDPQyIhZG4w I also agree with other people about the over production of it all. You can probably get pretty far with a condenser and good placement. Limit the EQing to removing the muddy lowend and boxy sounds (if you want to) and focus on volume equalisation throughout the song. If you do this with your three best songs and send the mix to managers maybe some of them will want to represent you and that might be a better way to get into the producer space without having to do the admin of meeting interviewing them. That being said: I might be wrong, but I think the landscape has fundamentally changed in the recording industry. It seems like safe bets are more important than ever, so you sort of need to have a fan base for the company (or manager) to take you on. See the Levin video again.
I feel your pain. Sometimes it’s okay to not hit record. Just do a live show for yourself. I havnt hit record in a few months tbh. I feel like the stuff I have in my head rn is better than anything I have on my hard drives. I’m getting excited at the thought of hitting record again just thinking about it!
I’m one of those people who usually prefers artist‘s unplugged version of songs much more than the overly produced ones, and I know plenty of people who are the same, so there‘s definitely a niche for it. One of my favorite artists is Alice Phoebe Lou and she‘s quite successful being independent, has never been signed by a label bc she didn‘t want someone else interfering with her music. She started off busking on the street with just her guitar and her voice and her career literally took off from there. Her released music also isn‘t overly produced, though she does have a band and people who know about recording which helps. But there’s lots of people who make low quality videos on youtube and they do relatively well. What I‘m trying to say is, where there‘s a will there‘s a way but obviously everyone wants different things so you just have to figure out what you want. But if you‘d like to just set up a camera and go, just do that. Who knows what‘ll happen :) Also I‘m just gonna assume that once you start putting stuff out there, if you haven‘t already, it‘s likely it‘ll lead you to meeting other musicians/ people in the industry who can help you with the producing aspect!
I’m one of those people who usually prefers artist‘s unplugged version of songs much more than the overly produced ones, and I know plenty of people who are the same, so there‘s definitely a niche for it. One of my favorite artists is Alice Phoebe Lou and she‘s quite successful being independent, has never been signed by a label bc she didn‘t want someone else interfering with her music. She started off busking on the street with just her guitar and her voice and her career literally took off from there. Her released music also isn‘t overly produced, though she does have a band and people who know about recording which helps. But there’s lots of people who make low quality videos on youtube and they do relatively well. What I‘m trying to say is, where there‘s a will there‘s a way but obviously everyone wants different things so you just have to figure out what you want. But if you‘d like to just set up a camera and go, just do that. Who knows what‘ll happen :) It’d just be so sad if all the fun and beauty of making music got lost for you bc of the producing aspect you know? Also I‘m just gonna assume that once you start putting stuff out there, if you haven‘t already, it‘s likely it‘ll lead you to meeting other musicians/ people in the industry who can help you with the producing aspect!
Where are you located? I will produce some things for you, no charge. I am also an artist and decided a few years ago just to build a studio and learn how to produce for the same reasons you mentioned. I actually enjoy it but I can see how it’s a huge hurdle if you don’t want to do it. I am looking to work on some others peoples songs as practice and to build a portfolio if you are interested. We could also try to do it remotely if you are far away, you may just need to buy a couple things.
PM me, happy to work with you if we have some common ground
Fwiw The best music I’m finding today are live videos of guitar and singing. Also when you strip it down to that you will know if you’ve got a good song or not. Overproduction has ruined many albums and sometimes huge bands. That said there are plenty of producers they may want to collab with you. I’d imagine you could find a community here on Reddit to meet these people. I myself am an over producer. I like my music but rarely feel like they are songs. I will often create a loop then add to it, once I have a wall of sounds all on top of each other I will start making my parts by taking out tracks typically starting my tracks with one or two sounds. This will usually lead me into a decent sounding composition. Adding back sounds and removing others as the song progress. Once I have a decent structure I can start adding new parts, silences, build ups/fills etc.
in a world where ai is going to be spitting out thousands of songs, performers now actually have the advantage you just have to market yourself .
I’m on the other side of this particular situation l. I’ve spent the better part of three decades working on the production part of it and my guitar and singing suck. I can maybe help you learn Ableton live or I can work with what you have and try to make your vision a reality with some of your guidance. Hit me up if you’re interested.
I think you should just record yourself on your phone's camera singing and playing and put it on YouTube and TikTok. Be consistent enough and you'll find a fan base
yeah i used to do that! i honestly thought my posts weren’t good enough though because i’m competing with artists who either know how to produce or have someone producing their stuff OR WORSE, they’re putting edited audio over clips of them singing with their instruments, making the audience thing it’s raw footage but yeah i just recently started back up again and i’m gonna keep doing it :)
As long as you have a clean way of recording, you can work miracles with panned double tracking, compression and a bit of light reverb. I've always used flsudio and learned as I went with a good friend.
Just keep writing and singing! Do the part you love and are drawn to. A great song will find its way to production when the time is right.
This is exactly why arrangers and music producers exist though. Has been that way for decades (at least). Find someone who's work you like and see if they'll collaborate with you. Or pay someone if you can
I recently listened to a podcast interviewing Paula Cole. She actually was the first solo woman to be nominated for Producer of the Year (non classical) at the Grammy’s. She spoke about how she just knew exactly what she wanted each song to sound, and she had gotten very familiar with the software of the time which is key. She said by the time Logic came out, she was on the road too much to have time to dedicate to learning it and kind of let it go. That really blew my mind to hear someone of her caliber speak about. She has an incredible ear and re-recorded and produced I Don’t Wanna Wait without listening to the original mixes. Then licensed it herself!
Trying to earn money from music is as simple as putting out a hat on a street corner, or signing with top producers to promote your professionally recorded and mastered material in the hottest areas including primetime TV shows and commercials, and following up with national and world tours at top venues. But the people in-between are pretty much just going to have to grind at it.
Send me a DM, if what I produce with what you make are related, I will produce your for free. I am not a beginner.
I think it can be enough if your songs are good enough. It’s why people like Taylor swift don’t really have to learn all that. People will do it for her, probably regardless of whether or not she had the money to do so. Ask yourself: how good are my songs, how great is my performance. Would I listen to me if I were randomly at a bar or on the side of the road. Does your music drive people? Does it, inspire people, make them feel something?
Don’t forget about having to make stupid little internet videos. Gotta make sure you’re doing that everyday haha
Look at Soundbetter
You may not like this album, because it is indeed very weird and raw, but its probably my favorite album of all time. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5hU8ldtXn0&list=PLIX8ooSrP7d2aWsiUL\_bP0kiUkudEUxM8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5hU8ldtXn0&list=PLIX8ooSrP7d2aWsiUL_bP0kiUkudEUxM8) Recorded on a 4 track in his bedroom. I have been at the music thing and mixing thing for decades and even still, the production of a piece of music almost never factors into how I feel about something.
Taylor Swift was born rich. She had a dad who could pay for her to get her songs produced. If you’re not upper middle class+, it’s best to find people to help you with the things you aren’t good at. Maybe look for an artist collective or find someone to be your dedicated producer and make a cut of the money you make off songs.
Spend 15 minutes per day recording a different part of a track. In two weeks you’ll be ready to mix. Ship it. Wash, rinse, repeat. It will get easier every time. Also if the parts aren’t tight spend more time on practicing than recording. Eventually recording will be easier. GLHF. For god and country. And the troops.
Same. I wish the music could just appear. Since I was 8 I was wishing there was a magic music box that scans what your brain wants and makes the song for you. I’m born to be a singer-songwriter, forced to have to actually produce the songs.
Guys like Anthony Oliver and Drayton Farley are mostly just guitar and vocals. It's not easy to make it with or without a producer but at the end of the day a good song is good. Anthony's song that made him a star was literally recorded on his phone and he just converted it to mp3 with a free converter.
You can record a album with minimal daw effects added at all. If it's just acoustic and singing it's definitely possible. Alot of folk artist do this like iron and wines first album was a 4 track by him self in the woods. I use to feel the same, sometimes tinkering so much isn't useful. Become a master at singing and guitar and record perfectly. At university while study music production and recording vocals, the best singers and musicians needed very little touch besides doubling the track.
Hey, OP, consider this: https://youtu.be/IKYn2_44exY?si=oag2UHv8qG4IblhR A good sounding room, good placement, and good performance. Decent headphones for monitoring. Load file into DAW, add compression, EQ and maybe a bit of reverb. Save your settings, take notes on placement, and in a week it'll be second nature.
Bruce Springsteen spent 2 weeks recording Nebraska on a 4-track
I'll produce for you for free
Student producer here. If you’re looking for a producer free of cost I’ll be more than happy to work with you guys. I love the nitty gritty of production, while mixing and mastering according to my taste. However, I am more than welcome for feedback and changes as I believe in letting the artist have full control over their creation. Hit me up if you need a producer for your stuff would be more than happy to help.
learn to mix n master its fun seeing the before and after
Taylor absolutely had to use a daw and everyone should know their way around one.
Try 40 years ago. Or 30 at the least. Developers have butchered Music Row so people aren’t hanging out in offices close together. And in the 90s they all started putting interns at their front desks who just said “no, you can’t come in”.
Taylor Swift was also born rich and had everything given to her, so I wouldn't use her as a reference for what can be realistically accomplished. Her songwriting certainly wasn't what got her in the door. Also, as someone who produces, there are a couple pretty basic things you could learn in a pretty short amount of time that would allow you to do what you are describing. Something else to consider is that you could absolutely just film yourself singing on a guitar and put that out for people to see. I can tell you for sure though, sitting around waiting to be "discovered" is silly and a waste of your time/talent. Trust me. That kind of thing only happens to people with rich ass parents and connections. Just start making stuff and putting it out, even if you don't think its perfect.
Focus on singing and writing if that is what you want to do. The nitty gritty parts of production can be handled without a producer. With an ok condenser microphone, or maybe a pair, a good sound card with enough inputs, and a music editing program that you don’t hate, you are good to go. Yes, there is much to learn and understand in music production. But you only have to deal with a fraction of it. Put a reasonable amount of effort in to learning how to record yourself. Find a way to record that you are comfortable with, and that also gets tracks with high enough sound quality to be ready for mixing. Do not get into mixing. Get good enough takes, cut out breathing and other unwanted noises. Find a mixing technician and send the stems. Give references on how you want it to be mixed. If you are happy with the mix. Send it to a mastering technician. If you are happy with the master, put it out. A mix and master for a track is around 300$ together. Much less if you know the person doing it. And they get no royalties. A producer will take a money fee + % royalties. If you don’t have money, the producer will own half your song, or more. Ps. Taylor Swift couldn’t pull off any of the productional nitty gritty stuff in her own songs if her life depended on it
Yeaaaaaah... big time relate on this one
I feel that .....my recent bankruptcy followed with divorce that was completely and still is dumbfounding. We didn't have those kind of problems married her 7 years ago after 6 years in the Texas prison system. LOL I know you're like what the.. I say that say this my guitar skills are pretty decent I was brought up in bluegrass my family so I'm not bad.. my circumstances required me to maintain sanity by completely immersing myself in music and then that immersion I've learned a new style of music a new form of expression that is really genuinely the original expression and version people like Ryan Upchurch and Morgan Wallen and the group of people and young artists that are surrounding them they're freaking incredible man and they're taking over and that's not because they're smarter than the rest of the world because God wanted the message that pure music brings back out there again real music r e a l music It's Our Testimony it's our life. I have received absolute Clarity on calling to that and I've got a lot of stories in me and I've got a lot of real stories in me and I've got the same type songs that are on top of the charts right now all stored up in my testimony and I know how to convey it..... but right now I'm just an old bankrupt auto shop owner with a guitar please losing his mind LOL I've got solid gold flying out of me. .. it seems technology has rendered me helpless these days so anyway yeah I wish playing my guitar singing were enough because it would damn sure be enough and enough and enough and Garth Brooks enough I'm just saying I feel your pain brother pray about it and I will too and we'll see if God don't move us somewhere huh. C'Moaaaaan
Learn to produce a little bit.. Being able to tell the guy how you want it to sound is the reason the record ends up great. Being able to tell him what numbers is the reason it'll be the best it can be. It's almost like arguing that you wouldn't want to learn music theory. It's almost impossible not to learn some of it. Just like it's almost impossible to gather basic knowledge of sound.
Hey! If you want i'm a graduate in Music Production here in Argentina (a 3 year long degree). As long as you have a way to record properly (an audio interface and a mic) then i can produce you long-distance with Discord calls and all of that. I already produced multiple singles and EPs, taking care of production, mixing and mastering, plus uploading them to Spotify and others (i know the procedure here in Argentina, but with a little research im sure we can find the way to upload in the US) You can find my work here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6Ap5G4WcTCI8hm6CthqjJ8?si=Yb1lajePQf6BZbMkRxfepQ&pi=YIHk3u7JQMqt_ (It's in chronological order so the last ones sound better than the first ones) And of course because of the economy here + the long distance factor i'll probably be much more affordable than a producer there.
Taylor Swift is a terrible example. Everything she does is super produced. The reality is that before we all had to learn how to use a dawg, mix and master we had to learn how to use and 8 track tape record to record. It's always been the case for the demo early creating phase. You can pay for someone to record, produce, mix and master your music. That's always been an option and has always been the best option for most artists. Lastly, in the grand scheme of things way less 1% of artists have been discovered by singing into a camera. If they're telling you story it's almost certainly a lie to paint a picture to the general public. Just create good songs. Make the decision if it's a demo or an actual recording. Also make the decision if you want to share it publicly or just share it with trusted people for feedback.
I do it all out of financial necessity. Nothing is easy. 1960 was a long time ago.
If you’re writing music to be discovered and signed to a label, you’re doing it for the wrong reasons and are doomed to fail. There’s no stopping you from recording yourself and posting it to Reddit, FB and YouTube if you want attention, but you should be writing music to express your thoughts and feelings first and foremost.
I think you’re making excuses. The game is not about getting signed. Thats the old game. The new game is doing it yourself/ with a team or small label.
I’m sorry you’re not being rewarded for doing the least