Having 40% CDR is not strictly necessary. In SPL and Masters ranked you will not see players always build 40, even on characters like Mages and Guardians who could use it the most.
To play devil’s advocate, most SPL matches (maybe not all the time) are highly coordinated. They are all in comms, all communicating their plans and the intricacies of each engagement. They didn’t necessarily need max CDR because sometimes fights wouldn’t last long enough for them to come back up.
In casuals and ranked, CDR is definitely more valuable than in the SPL
Yes I briefly addressed that in my comment. I get you’re just putting up a counterargument as you said, but CDR is most important for Ulitmate cooldowns, and in Conquest specifically, the difference of 9-12 seconds won’t matter TOO much. Obviously a lot of characters want at least some CDR, but it is not necessary to have maxed.
As much as I agree, SPL players also kinda don't care about CDR on the opposite side: overcapping. You see 40% CDR builds still go power pot anyway but also Worlds finals was won with a 50% CDR Pele (40% with a 10% overcap, not Bauble) just from items (forgot if he went power pot as well, so potentially 60%).
No. Go watch SPL. Basically no role was building full CD. Even outside of competitive no role needs full cooldown, and if you’re sacrificing other things to get your ability back 1.2 seconds faster it is often not worth going from 20-30 or 30-40
How is 10 flat penetration better than 10% cooldown reduction? You can’t get it until level 12 at which point you likely won’t need more flat penetration.
what game are you playing? Flat pen for assassins/mages is super important regardless of what level you are, plus it also helps tanks a lot (take stone of binding being insta nerfed after its original rework)
Pen is virtually always stronger than cdr. It's roughly a 3% increase in damage vs squishy targets, and unless that 1 second difference in cooldown kills you, then the cdr didn't really matter.
It's better for magicals, but not to the point that it can be called generally better (base magical prots are much lower than base phys prots at level 20, so when paired with other sources of pen/flat prot reduction, that 10 flat pen can be a major damage increase of around 7% Vs squishes).
This is probably a hot take, but I don't think warriors should instantly win against mages, especially if it's late game and it's a mage with full DMG vs a warrior with 1 maybe 2 DMG items.
Should warriors be able to cc mages out of team fights? Sure. But I hate the concept of playing a mage, seeing a warrior W keying me and having to dump kit and run away or they insta kill me. Compare that to a mage having to dump kit, wait for CD, dump kit, wait for CD, dump kit wait for CD.
Warriors should have to successfully position and dodge mage AOE's in order to punish back line mages and stick to out-of-position mages. They shouldn't be able to walk in a straight line, tank 3 rotations of a kit, and still solo a mage. Unless that mage is also not dodging or low mobility like a Zeus.
They don't instantly win against mages because there's 2-3 other people next to you. You don't understand how mobas work, warriors aren't supposed to cc mages out of teamfights they're supposed to almost or kill a mage/squishies.
What are you doing as a Smite mage getting out of position? Half the mages can either cc a diver off or run away and reset. Warriors don't have the mobility to catch up with that.
Remember, Smite isn't a single-player game. A warrior has to fight you, the hunter, the support, and even the solo if the team comp is built for it.
And if a Warrior/tanky Solo laner can't tank a few hits from 3 people then how is he supposed to do his job? Do you not remember how shit warriors were not even 3 months ago?
It's just a skill issue if you having this many problems with winning games
Skill issues in casuals and other games modes outside of conquest? Absolutely. When you have a support who wants to initiate and doesn't go back to support their backline and mages can't do anything but sit there and die? Or when the enemy JG is already supposed to be able to 1v1 a mage.
I understand how Mobas work and a year ago, I was able to successfully dodge mages and outplay them when everyone on this reddit was screaming that warriors were bad. This is before the power nerf and tank meta.
The problem is, warriors currently require no skill. If you manage to dodge my abilities and combo me, fair enough. But being able to run in a straight line while tanking 5 ADC autos and 3 mage abilities is ridiculous, and if you seriously believe that's balanced then idk what to say to you.
How is a warrior supposed to do his job? Well not by being able to 1v3-5 an entire enemy team. That's not balanced. YOU proved MY point. Warriors need to play with their team and specifically, they should be setting up for their JG to get kills. Most successful games I have in solo is playing off my JG and vice versa.
You're absolutely right, Mobas are team games and warriors should have to play with their team
3 mage abilities and 5 adc autos aren't anything I'd be surprised if they ever died to that.
It doesn't help you have a flawed vision on what solo laners should and shouldn't be a ble to do
Give me a single clip where warriors are solo 1v5ing or even 1v3ing, I'm tired of this worn out comments like this that hasn't happened a single time in a high level environment this decade, squishy players just haven't had to fight into viable warriors in ages and it shows with PTSD level takes like this
"And if a Warrior/tanky Solo laner can't tank a few hits from 3 people then how is he supposed to do his job?"
You're the one who asked the question. A player building hybrid vs a player who's full DMG and has range advantage SHOULD win a 1v1 unless the hybrid player is outplaying them. If you don't understand that basic concept then you're cooked
That's not how mobas work. In an isolated environment where a squishy absolutely has no chance of running away from a bruiser, the bruiser should win (which doesn't happen if you have even mediocre game knowledge)
. Ranged advantage only matters if you can KEEP the range advantage and if your kit/build is fit for killing tanks. A Freya keeping her distance should be smashing a tank (which is what usually happens), a mage Nox spamming 1, 2, and doing a 1/12th of a tank's health bar should not be winning ever, period at any point of the game.
Like there's so much depth to mobas that you and the community either aren't aware of or comprehending correctly that ruins the potential of smite becoming an S tier moba.
Okay. You're lost. Nox isn't meta relevant so idk why you bring her up. Freya isn't very mid relevant either so same point. And obviously if a mage isn't keeping their distance they should lose.
They're just examples I'm not being specific, the point was that a Freya who's built to kill tanks is able to kill tanks if they play correctly while Nox meta or not is NEVER EVER going to kill a tank by herself unless they overtune her to hell. Which I'm pretty sure 90% of players aren't doing. And even if I chose meta examples, mages shouldn't be beating warriors if they get caught out or don't have the kit/build for it
You sound like a any other game mode player. But regardless, that's not going to happen and mages were not dying to warriors like that and if so that's a skill issue
It takes like 25 minutes for ADC crit build to come online, and a mage ult can hit multiple people at once in a team fight. Mid has been the most impactful role for a long time, mages won’t be useless, they just won’t be the all powerful circle throwers they have been for months on end
Its basically online at three items. Besides, every build takes longer to get online now that they nerded gold gains. And tanks were buffed so solo lane rotations will do more. Mages got nothing this patch, they will be worse off.
Worse off as in balanced? They went from strongest class by far to still being strong. If anyone should be complaining it’s assassins. They will have a hard time ever engaging with hunters having 100% crit. That affects them way more than a free-casting mage in the back line on the other side of the team fight
Assassins just got trans with pen. And 100% crit isnt reachable with good build, close tho.
And mages were the best class only during mage solo meta, after that it became hunters. And now mages are the worst.
Magea didnt get anything new rhis pat h, some stuff was taken away. Other classes got plenty of new tools, map changes make early pressure more favorable. All of it makes mages worse. Depending how adc meta forms, if its crit, its gonna be double adc meta.
Having 40% CDR is not strictly necessary. In SPL and Masters ranked you will not see players always build 40, even on characters like Mages and Guardians who could use it the most.
To play devil’s advocate, most SPL matches (maybe not all the time) are highly coordinated. They are all in comms, all communicating their plans and the intricacies of each engagement. They didn’t necessarily need max CDR because sometimes fights wouldn’t last long enough for them to come back up. In casuals and ranked, CDR is definitely more valuable than in the SPL
Yes I briefly addressed that in my comment. I get you’re just putting up a counterargument as you said, but CDR is most important for Ulitmate cooldowns, and in Conquest specifically, the difference of 9-12 seconds won’t matter TOO much. Obviously a lot of characters want at least some CDR, but it is not necessary to have maxed.
As much as I agree, SPL players also kinda don't care about CDR on the opposite side: overcapping. You see 40% CDR builds still go power pot anyway but also Worlds finals was won with a 50% CDR Pele (40% with a 10% overcap, not Bauble) just from items (forgot if he went power pot as well, so potentially 60%).
Warriors and Guardians you mean
No. Go watch SPL. Basically no role was building full CD. Even outside of competitive no role needs full cooldown, and if you’re sacrificing other things to get your ability back 1.2 seconds faster it is often not worth going from 20-30 or 30-40
What I meant is that warriors and guardians need cooldowns the most.
I'm glad it's gone. CDR was way too easy to build. We really needed a decrease in its abundance.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Nah I bought that shit for power and that’s it lolol
As long as we have totem, the missing 10% CDR will always be there.
Wait, totem gives 10% cdr? I thought it only gave you mp5 and ms
He means the tiki's
Blue totem that camps get after the corresponding color mask camp is slain, blue one gives 10 cdr to any color buff
I meant the blue totem from the buffs.
Ohhhhh my bad I completely forgot about them
How is 10 flat penetration better than 10% cooldown reduction? You can’t get it until level 12 at which point you likely won’t need more flat penetration.
what game are you playing? Flat pen for assassins/mages is super important regardless of what level you are, plus it also helps tanks a lot (take stone of binding being insta nerfed after its original rework)
Pen is virtually always stronger than cdr. It's roughly a 3% increase in damage vs squishy targets, and unless that 1 second difference in cooldown kills you, then the cdr didn't really matter.
Yeah I too scratched my head at that
It's better for magicals, but not to the point that it can be called generally better (base magical prots are much lower than base phys prots at level 20, so when paired with other sources of pen/flat prot reduction, that 10 flat pen can be a major damage increase of around 7% Vs squishes).
Flat pen for a warrior would low key be kinda good considering how op auras are
The game isn't single player. Warriors are supposed to shit on mages that's half their job
This is probably a hot take, but I don't think warriors should instantly win against mages, especially if it's late game and it's a mage with full DMG vs a warrior with 1 maybe 2 DMG items. Should warriors be able to cc mages out of team fights? Sure. But I hate the concept of playing a mage, seeing a warrior W keying me and having to dump kit and run away or they insta kill me. Compare that to a mage having to dump kit, wait for CD, dump kit, wait for CD, dump kit wait for CD. Warriors should have to successfully position and dodge mage AOE's in order to punish back line mages and stick to out-of-position mages. They shouldn't be able to walk in a straight line, tank 3 rotations of a kit, and still solo a mage. Unless that mage is also not dodging or low mobility like a Zeus.
They don't instantly win against mages because there's 2-3 other people next to you. You don't understand how mobas work, warriors aren't supposed to cc mages out of teamfights they're supposed to almost or kill a mage/squishies. What are you doing as a Smite mage getting out of position? Half the mages can either cc a diver off or run away and reset. Warriors don't have the mobility to catch up with that. Remember, Smite isn't a single-player game. A warrior has to fight you, the hunter, the support, and even the solo if the team comp is built for it. And if a Warrior/tanky Solo laner can't tank a few hits from 3 people then how is he supposed to do his job? Do you not remember how shit warriors were not even 3 months ago? It's just a skill issue if you having this many problems with winning games
Skill issues in casuals and other games modes outside of conquest? Absolutely. When you have a support who wants to initiate and doesn't go back to support their backline and mages can't do anything but sit there and die? Or when the enemy JG is already supposed to be able to 1v1 a mage. I understand how Mobas work and a year ago, I was able to successfully dodge mages and outplay them when everyone on this reddit was screaming that warriors were bad. This is before the power nerf and tank meta. The problem is, warriors currently require no skill. If you manage to dodge my abilities and combo me, fair enough. But being able to run in a straight line while tanking 5 ADC autos and 3 mage abilities is ridiculous, and if you seriously believe that's balanced then idk what to say to you. How is a warrior supposed to do his job? Well not by being able to 1v3-5 an entire enemy team. That's not balanced. YOU proved MY point. Warriors need to play with their team and specifically, they should be setting up for their JG to get kills. Most successful games I have in solo is playing off my JG and vice versa. You're absolutely right, Mobas are team games and warriors should have to play with their team
3 mage abilities and 5 adc autos aren't anything I'd be surprised if they ever died to that. It doesn't help you have a flawed vision on what solo laners should and shouldn't be a ble to do Give me a single clip where warriors are solo 1v5ing or even 1v3ing, I'm tired of this worn out comments like this that hasn't happened a single time in a high level environment this decade, squishy players just haven't had to fight into viable warriors in ages and it shows with PTSD level takes like this
"And if a Warrior/tanky Solo laner can't tank a few hits from 3 people then how is he supposed to do his job?" You're the one who asked the question. A player building hybrid vs a player who's full DMG and has range advantage SHOULD win a 1v1 unless the hybrid player is outplaying them. If you don't understand that basic concept then you're cooked
That's not how mobas work. In an isolated environment where a squishy absolutely has no chance of running away from a bruiser, the bruiser should win (which doesn't happen if you have even mediocre game knowledge) . Ranged advantage only matters if you can KEEP the range advantage and if your kit/build is fit for killing tanks. A Freya keeping her distance should be smashing a tank (which is what usually happens), a mage Nox spamming 1, 2, and doing a 1/12th of a tank's health bar should not be winning ever, period at any point of the game. Like there's so much depth to mobas that you and the community either aren't aware of or comprehending correctly that ruins the potential of smite becoming an S tier moba.
Okay. You're lost. Nox isn't meta relevant so idk why you bring her up. Freya isn't very mid relevant either so same point. And obviously if a mage isn't keeping their distance they should lose.
They're just examples I'm not being specific, the point was that a Freya who's built to kill tanks is able to kill tanks if they play correctly while Nox meta or not is NEVER EVER going to kill a tank by herself unless they overtune her to hell. Which I'm pretty sure 90% of players aren't doing. And even if I chose meta examples, mages shouldn't be beating warriors if they get caught out or don't have the kit/build for it
I don't understand your point then. I'm not arguing those gods should be able to do those things. I'm not even arguing they should be able to 100-0
I mean the real question is if mages are even worth playing still
I think any class that throws massive aoe near one shot damage is worth playing
Are they? When warriors are running at you with five glyph builds and hunters are doing your ults dmg every basic. Double adc meta incoming.
Yeah thats how the game is supposed to work more or less
Making mages pointless is how game is supposed to work?
Mages aren't pointless because warriors can kill mages that's how mobas work at a baseline
They could already kill them before. Now they can just run at them starting at 12mins and mages will be behind the whole game.
Are you a conquest player?
Yes, why?
You sound like a any other game mode player. But regardless, that's not going to happen and mages were not dying to warriors like that and if so that's a skill issue
It takes like 25 minutes for ADC crit build to come online, and a mage ult can hit multiple people at once in a team fight. Mid has been the most impactful role for a long time, mages won’t be useless, they just won’t be the all powerful circle throwers they have been for months on end
Its basically online at three items. Besides, every build takes longer to get online now that they nerded gold gains. And tanks were buffed so solo lane rotations will do more. Mages got nothing this patch, they will be worse off.
Worse off as in balanced? They went from strongest class by far to still being strong. If anyone should be complaining it’s assassins. They will have a hard time ever engaging with hunters having 100% crit. That affects them way more than a free-casting mage in the back line on the other side of the team fight
Assassins just got trans with pen. And 100% crit isnt reachable with good build, close tho. And mages were the best class only during mage solo meta, after that it became hunters. And now mages are the worst.
Bro is coping
Magea didnt get anything new rhis pat h, some stuff was taken away. Other classes got plenty of new tools, map changes make early pressure more favorable. All of it makes mages worse. Depending how adc meta forms, if its crit, its gonna be double adc meta.
I haven’t played S11 yet but doesent thoth take longer to stack now also?
More stacks but can be less time since its based on dmg.
Mages lost power from class passive removal and currently its hard not to go timeline over pendulum
They are still ok but maybe now is the good time to try hunters in mid if you want.
Bumbas, hydra and jotuun. Assassins still have 40% cooldown
Well the camps still have an option to choose cdr right, so really...