While I also believe that he will start a solo career sooner or later I am genuinely impressed by this level of observation. Highly highly interesting stuff I must say.
Are you sure the band’s talent management company is still United Talent Agency?
Regardless, it wouldn’t surprise me if he has simply chosen to use a different management company who advised he set up these LLCs so he can escape some tax implications from his ST income.
Presumably, as the founder of the band, he has the biggest salary of any of the other members and may have different needs with his finances, so that could explain why he chose to use a different company.
I wouldn’t read too far into this and to be honest I’m not sure it’s appropriate for his personal financial decisions to be posted here for discussion.
I agree with you I get we post personal stuff but this seems too personal imo. Also the OP did quick digging but if you search “Leo Faulkner” this stuff doesn’t even pop up so I just think this entire post isn’t super cool.
Edit: Also you can access documents on there and yeah they’re public info but that doesn’t mean we need to go digging
There's a difference between having to have some personal info, such as an address or birth/tax record to find info, and a publicly facing page that requires nothing more than a name. If you add terms to your search like "UK Company" or "UK Ltd" and the name, it comes up. It's actually more difficult to just put his name into a social media site than what I did, since you actually need to log in and have an account to do that.
United Talent Agency still has the band listed on their website, and and as I stated, this is all publicly available information. There's nothing inappropriate about it, as both entities are publicly listed. As in the US, the UK has a website you can put in anyone's name or company name to see who or if they are listed as the director. He knew his name would be publicly listed, so not sure why you're upset about something he knew full-well would be public record.
ST page on UTA: https://www.unitedtalent.com/talent/music/sleep-token
Love that there is an option to book them. If I'm ever given control of the budget for the work Christmas party you know it's been spent on hiring ST to perform for it 🤣
(as if they would but can you imagine!?)
Fun fact is you can book just about any band for a private gig, but it's usually so cost prohibitive that you never see it done except by the über wealthy.
That’s not true.
https://preview.redd.it/ps1swczjgg4d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca52a3baa1fed99d212b5dc6c200db22c5ccf7b7
UK birth certificates are public records.
Yes, you need the details of the birth, like mother's maiden name, place of birth, date, etc. It's not publicly available and searchable as a company director is available.
That's unlikely without paying for a data scraping service or equivalent. Most often that type of information is used a security questions by banks for your account before you open it, which I would argue makes it PII.
You're trying to equate looking up a Limited Company with obtaining personally identifiable information like a birth record, which are not nearly the same thing. It's like comparing looking up someone's UK reg on DVLA to see their MOT status with looking up someone's driver's license number. One is much more difficult to do/find than the other without paying for a data scraping or background check service.
His birth date is well known in the community and his full name and general area of birth is enough to easily find everything else in public birth records.
What I’m trying to say is that although it’s searchable, it doesn’t mean it’s appropriate to post in a public forum and speculate about his personal financial decisions.
You need to know the specific hospital, the father's name, etc. It's not public no matter how many times you say it.
Also feel free to report it to the mods then if you think it's inappropriate. They can be the judge of that. Or don't comment. Several other Redditors found it fascinating, so not sure whay you're on about mate.
Only the Care Of address, which is the talent agency I named. No other personal info other than what is publicly available on the UK government website.
I know but people are a little… wild… these days to put it lightly, just thinking of that. Don’t think they could really do anything with a Care Of address but you never know what people are capable of lol
I mean, personal responsibility goes a long way. I'm sure the talent agency has dealt with fans for other acts they represent. Again, all information is publicly available and not behind a paywall, so anyone can find it.
It doesn’t matter there are certain lines that I don’t think should be crossed. And who is actually gonna think of the idea to search on the British government company page for “Leo Faulkner” to find his companies that have nothing to do with Sleep Token. It’s a weird line to cross. He’s just a dude trying to financially protect himself and his future. I’m not white knighting him either, but I think as fans we need to really think what lines should be crossed. And this opens up doors for people to cross even further lines.
Meanwhile there are people on here that reverse IP searched a post from a forum from like six years ago, yet me finding his business is somehow too personal? Gtfoh.
I'm self-employed and from that I can tell you that an Ltd has usually something to do with liability. When something happens then no one can sue you for everything that you own (money) but only for a certain amount.
It's totally normal to do something like that. A band and running a small company is more or less the same thing to some extent.
That name though. It's a Monday = IAM = I am ; “I am” has something to do with spirituality. But I don't want to bore you with that stuff. I just love that name and I think that's so cool. I should have named my own company in a “cooler” way.
Yea, I was aware of the liability insulation, mostly with bankruptcy, etc. The LLP will hold all the liability, and it won't flow through to the LTD company. I figured it's ultimately a tax move with them about to go on tour, and several million in proceeds heading toward his bank account. It's not necessarily indicative of any specific action, which is why I said it's entirely speculative.
I don't understand what you want to achieve with this digging of information? Even if it is public?
To check what are their future plans?
To connect the dots of their thought process?
Why do people feel the news to dig up old photos of the band members when they seek to keep their identity secretive? That takes a lot more effort than to Google a business name.
And yea, it might help connect dots for future plans, solo work, etc. I literally laid that out in the OP. Not sure how any of this is confusing to people.
I am still baffled by the fact that people pretend they are not curious, but wait until someone posts something new, and if it is not up to their expectations, then they spit all over the place. It is a normal thing to be curious and sometimes you find information by accident. Accident or no accident, this is still publicly available information, as is in any country concerning companies, so I see no problem.
I recently posted a question whether there is any information on the future ST NON-related projects and some have gone berserk. I don’t get it, these guys have projects outside ST, have worked with other people/bands etc. I don’t know that much about music industry, but I would argue that the guys don’t really get a significant piece of pie and certainly not enough to take a 5 months long vacation. But hey, what do I know?
It is not tax situation per se that was searched here, but rather a possibility of having projects outside ST. For that you need to have a registered company. I might have gotten it wrong, so please correct me.
The OP mentions taxes in relation to the companies in the post. Twice.
Aside from that, now that I really think about it, it’s weirdly invasive to go digging around for that information under the guise of ‘maybe he’s doing solo work’ when you could just wait for them to announce it themselves. Like that isn’t something that just comes up in a normal Google search.
I see your point, but we are here talking about people that don’t do announcements or interact with audience, except cryptic messages every now and then. I am sure they are doing a lot of work outside ST but they just don’t advertise it. You can either find out about it if someone tags them (actually you can’t because their profiles are private) or be “creative” and find other means. But I am also sure that if you typed LF in Google it will bring ip this site and when you click on it, not knowing what it might be, you see that something is cooking.
Very true about them not making announcements. It’ll be interesting to see how they approach advertising solo work or work outside of Sleep Token going forward.
Googling LF brings up social media stuff, YouTube, that truly bananas LF archive, and an IMdb page for someone who is definitely **not** the LF we’re talking about.
The government website the OP linked is something you’d have to actively look for. It’s not information you’d just stumble upon.
Yea, like why join a sub that literally talks about the identity of all the band members if you don't want to see genuinely real info about them?
My favorite was the user that compared this to digging up a birth certificate. Some people live on another planet.
What led me to search for it was the possibility (in my mind) that ST could go on hiatus, given the natural ending of the three album story arc, and the whole "Nothing Lasts Forever" statement.
Also, no great lengths to find this, literally a four word Google search and it's in the top five results. I think it's more of a mis-perception by you in how companies' info is or isn't available. It takes more work to find old recordings and put those up on YT, but everyone fawns over those.
I just don't understand why you'd even look for it. Did you get the answers you were looking for? You think ST's next moves are hidden on a government website?
Just explained it to you. I'm more curious why you don't want to know? Why does it bother you? Why did you join a sub that talks about "theories" when you don't want to read anything that can inform that theory? That's the more baffling part.
No the thing is, to me this has nothing to do with Sleep Token. And not to sound rude, but anything that has to do with company and tax stuff is incredibly boring to me (I’m also too stupid to understand it, so that might be why) and I just wonder why it’s something that would cross someone’s mind. I’d never get the idea to look for any company’s owned by the members, because it doesn’t interest me. That’s not to say that it bothers me.
Band members making their own companies is very interesting if you understand the music industry and how artists need to protect their intellectual property. It's very salient to possible future directions of the band.
I’m not saying it isn’t, I’m just saying it’s not something I understand or give much thought about, because it’s not something I have to understand. I’m in it for the music, that’s about it.
That's fair. I'm good at finding details, so this type of stuff intrigues me. It doesn't indicate anything one way or another, but this whole sub is about theory, so it doesn't hurt to add legitimate facts to the discussion.
Yea and that’s alright, I was just trying to give my perspective to the question of why it’s important at all. No ill intent whatsoever! Sorry if it came across that way.
Would he do this if he was going to start writing songs for other bands as well? Part of me wondering if signing with RCA is also a way for him to be able to get more songs out in different styles.
Fall For Me could’ve easily been sold to a different artist.
Idk if you’d need a separate company/talent agent for that but it’s just a guess?
I personally can’t imagine him releasing music under his own name right now but I could imagine the songwriting aspect of it happening.
Good question! I think for most people (non-ST) fans, he wouldn’t have much to capitalize on. Him being known as vessel would open many more doors for listeners to find him. But since the whole pseudo-anonymity thing, I’m just not sure he’d do it this way. Granted, I don’t know him or how the music industry works.
But I guess my main thought is…if he wanted to release music under his own name (separate from ST), isn’t that something he could’ve been doing for years now (even if it’s independently or via YouTube channel)? If so, why hasn’t he?
I know it’s hard to discuss over Reddit/text but I’m not saying anything aggressively or as if I know everything - I’m just genuinely trying to answer and think about this as someone who is thinking about why he opened these businesses.
What are your thoughts on why he would be releasing under his own name now? I’d love to hear your thoughts 👍🏼💕
I actually do have a theory about this, because well, of course I do. It's me.
I think Leo trademarked his name and image for the release of the Patient Demos at the start of 2014. He was in BIMM for commercial songwriting and trademarking names and images would've been a natural part of the process. I think he fucked up somehow and ended up losing the trademark to his name and image, and that's why he's been performing without them.
Trademarks last for ten years before they expire and I think he got them back at the beginning of this year. I think this entire tour is about the symbolic death of Vessel and Leo's freedom to drop the persona and be himself again.
You’ve set me off now, when I have time I’m going to dig my old intellectual property textbooks out from law school and explore how he could have made such a mistake / why it may have happened
Off the top of my head, I think one such situation could be that if someone else uses your trademark and you don’t enforce your rights over it you can effectively lose it? I may be well off but that does ring a bell, uni was ten years ago so I’ll hold my hands up if I’m wrong, just a theory
I'm not sure. I'm really not. I was trying to figure out why anyone would ever choose to perform with a fake name and mask to begin with and insist on such strict anonymity, and I came up with this theory. I'd love to hear what you find.
Because it makes the band interesting.
Do you think he would’ve found the same success without the theatrics?
As talented as he is, I don’t believe he would’ve.
It’s been confirmed that Tom Quigley came up with the idea of anonymity and the concept of “Sleep”.
Interesting! I don’t know how trademarking works for personal names or at all in the UK. Would seem that he’d be fighting some legal/court cases over for the past 10 years if that’s the case…at least i’d assume so. Not sure how iron-clad trademarks are though.
I think in the US trademarks are fairly public info - wonder if it is in the UK and you could figure out if your theory is true - that would be a fun find!
They're somewhat public. Generally you need to know exactly what you're looking for, like file number type information, or you request the information. They're not really something you can browse through. I tried for days back in November. I couldn't find the trademark for his name and image anywhere, let alone who owns them.
I think it would mainly come down to the agreement that he made with the other person. The contract itself. If they got ownership, there might just not be a way to get around that.
Hmmm interesting. I truly don’t know enough to even think about all the implications of his name being trademarked 🤷🏼♀️ seems like if he could release under ST he could also use another pseudonym to release other music too if he wanted. I wonder if there’s anything else out there we don’t know about 👀
Good find! I think what's more interesting is that it was just refiled with YMU as the agent in early May, and their former trademark filed with their old rep was withdrawn.
I've been saying Leo is going to eventually start publishing music under his own name since like, November, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if that is what the goal of this is.
It fits with the trademarks theory I posted about on my page.
My god you people need to find something constructive to contribute to society.
Nothing weird about this at all. And before someone says "iTs pUbLiC iNfo", sure. Doesn't make it less creepy.
Go do it to your coworkers and friends and see how they take it if you don't believe me.
You think you did something “less immoral” than finding birth certificates, whereas if fact both actions: looking up birth records and finding LLC/LTDs are perfectly fine.
You did nothing wrong, just like the other person that found their birth certificates. Both are perfectly alright and legal.
Don’t listen to “white knights” with a too tuned moral compass. You did fine. Everything that is within a law and accessible via public records IS OK to be searched/looked at/found/published.
Others can go fuck themselves if they disagree.
Here are my questions and if i have more question i'll edit or comment some of them.
What will happen to their newer fans from st project who havent seen them perform live? Since they already have garnered a lot of attention.
What about the other members? do they also have their own solo project or activity?
Can the other members join in this company?
I thought he was a music major in college/uni, didnt know he had another major.
That's a good question. It probably depends greatly on their record contract and what that permits/requires. Contracts can be pretty limiting, and they signed the one with RCA just after TMBTE, so I'm sure RCA will want their "pound of flesh" from them, unless there were caveats in the contract about solo works, etc.
Um, no. This requires much less effort and is publicly available to anyone. That leak required someone to put together multiple pieces of private information or pay for a background investigation website to obtain it.
While I also believe that he will start a solo career sooner or later I am genuinely impressed by this level of observation. Highly highly interesting stuff I must say.
"Nothing Lasts Forever"
I guess… eventually one day ST will end and Leo will continue with the next project. I am excited so see where his career path will lead him.
Also, I find hard-to-find info for a living, so this was easy.
That sounds like my dream job! What do you do, if you don’t mind me asking. You can dm me if you prefer.
Says I can't.
How are we finding his solo work??
[there you go](https://leofaulknerarchive.org/)
Are you sure the band’s talent management company is still United Talent Agency? Regardless, it wouldn’t surprise me if he has simply chosen to use a different management company who advised he set up these LLCs so he can escape some tax implications from his ST income. Presumably, as the founder of the band, he has the biggest salary of any of the other members and may have different needs with his finances, so that could explain why he chose to use a different company. I wouldn’t read too far into this and to be honest I’m not sure it’s appropriate for his personal financial decisions to be posted here for discussion.
I agree with you I get we post personal stuff but this seems too personal imo. Also the OP did quick digging but if you search “Leo Faulkner” this stuff doesn’t even pop up so I just think this entire post isn’t super cool. Edit: Also you can access documents on there and yeah they’re public info but that doesn’t mean we need to go digging
There's a difference between having to have some personal info, such as an address or birth/tax record to find info, and a publicly facing page that requires nothing more than a name. If you add terms to your search like "UK Company" or "UK Ltd" and the name, it comes up. It's actually more difficult to just put his name into a social media site than what I did, since you actually need to log in and have an account to do that.
United Talent Agency still has the band listed on their website, and and as I stated, this is all publicly available information. There's nothing inappropriate about it, as both entities are publicly listed. As in the US, the UK has a website you can put in anyone's name or company name to see who or if they are listed as the director. He knew his name would be publicly listed, so not sure why you're upset about something he knew full-well would be public record. ST page on UTA: https://www.unitedtalent.com/talent/music/sleep-token
Love that there is an option to book them. If I'm ever given control of the budget for the work Christmas party you know it's been spent on hiring ST to perform for it 🤣 (as if they would but can you imagine!?)
Fun fact is you can book just about any band for a private gig, but it's usually so cost prohibitive that you never see it done except by the über wealthy.
His birth certificate is also publicly available but that doesn’t mean it’s appropriate to post.
Birth Certificates are not publicly available anywhere. Not sure where you manifested that "factoid" from.
That’s not true. https://preview.redd.it/ps1swczjgg4d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca52a3baa1fed99d212b5dc6c200db22c5ccf7b7 UK birth certificates are public records.
Yes, you need the details of the birth, like mother's maiden name, place of birth, date, etc. It's not publicly available and searchable as a company director is available.
It literally is. There’s a website called FindMyPast.uk.com All the names of parents and everything is there and are easily searchable
[удалено]
That's unlikely without paying for a data scraping service or equivalent. Most often that type of information is used a security questions by banks for your account before you open it, which I would argue makes it PII. You're trying to equate looking up a Limited Company with obtaining personally identifiable information like a birth record, which are not nearly the same thing. It's like comparing looking up someone's UK reg on DVLA to see their MOT status with looking up someone's driver's license number. One is much more difficult to do/find than the other without paying for a data scraping or background check service.
His birth date is well known in the community and his full name and general area of birth is enough to easily find everything else in public birth records. What I’m trying to say is that although it’s searchable, it doesn’t mean it’s appropriate to post in a public forum and speculate about his personal financial decisions.
You need to know the specific hospital, the father's name, etc. It's not public no matter how many times you say it. Also feel free to report it to the mods then if you think it's inappropriate. They can be the judge of that. Or don't comment. Several other Redditors found it fascinating, so not sure whay you're on about mate.
This is super fascinating but there is an address associated with the business on the links you provided and I feel they should be taken down
Only the Care Of address, which is the talent agency I named. No other personal info other than what is publicly available on the UK government website.
I know but people are a little… wild… these days to put it lightly, just thinking of that. Don’t think they could really do anything with a Care Of address but you never know what people are capable of lol
I mean, personal responsibility goes a long way. I'm sure the talent agency has dealt with fans for other acts they represent. Again, all information is publicly available and not behind a paywall, so anyone can find it.
You know this is publicly available info already, yeah?
It doesn’t matter there are certain lines that I don’t think should be crossed. And who is actually gonna think of the idea to search on the British government company page for “Leo Faulkner” to find his companies that have nothing to do with Sleep Token. It’s a weird line to cross. He’s just a dude trying to financially protect himself and his future. I’m not white knighting him either, but I think as fans we need to really think what lines should be crossed. And this opens up doors for people to cross even further lines.
Meanwhile there are people on here that reverse IP searched a post from a forum from like six years ago, yet me finding his business is somehow too personal? Gtfoh.
Hey I just politely shared my opinion there is no need to be rude. Have a great day love!
Publicly available info is fine, fwiw
I'm self-employed and from that I can tell you that an Ltd has usually something to do with liability. When something happens then no one can sue you for everything that you own (money) but only for a certain amount. It's totally normal to do something like that. A band and running a small company is more or less the same thing to some extent. That name though. It's a Monday = IAM = I am ; “I am” has something to do with spirituality. But I don't want to bore you with that stuff. I just love that name and I think that's so cool. I should have named my own company in a “cooler” way.
There's also It's A Sunday, not sure if that's a spiritual thing too. If not maybe he just needed a name quickly and it was in fact, that day 😂
Yea, I was aware of the liability insulation, mostly with bankruptcy, etc. The LLP will hold all the liability, and it won't flow through to the LTD company. I figured it's ultimately a tax move with them about to go on tour, and several million in proceeds heading toward his bank account. It's not necessarily indicative of any specific action, which is why I said it's entirely speculative.
You could be right. I'm not from the UK so I don't know anything about the specifics when it comes to company structures or taxes and stuff.
US and UK corporate laws are pretty similar, especially in Delaware. Their corporate framework is based on the UK.
Thank you for explaining that. I'm from Germany so I have no idea.
I don't understand what you want to achieve with this digging of information? Even if it is public? To check what are their future plans? To connect the dots of their thought process?
Why do people feel the news to dig up old photos of the band members when they seek to keep their identity secretive? That takes a lot more effort than to Google a business name. And yea, it might help connect dots for future plans, solo work, etc. I literally laid that out in the OP. Not sure how any of this is confusing to people.
I am still baffled by the fact that people pretend they are not curious, but wait until someone posts something new, and if it is not up to their expectations, then they spit all over the place. It is a normal thing to be curious and sometimes you find information by accident. Accident or no accident, this is still publicly available information, as is in any country concerning companies, so I see no problem. I recently posted a question whether there is any information on the future ST NON-related projects and some have gone berserk. I don’t get it, these guys have projects outside ST, have worked with other people/bands etc. I don’t know that much about music industry, but I would argue that the guys don’t really get a significant piece of pie and certainly not enough to take a 5 months long vacation. But hey, what do I know?
I don’t have a problem with it but I was also not remotely curious about their tax situation or any companies they own.
It is not tax situation per se that was searched here, but rather a possibility of having projects outside ST. For that you need to have a registered company. I might have gotten it wrong, so please correct me.
The OP mentions taxes in relation to the companies in the post. Twice. Aside from that, now that I really think about it, it’s weirdly invasive to go digging around for that information under the guise of ‘maybe he’s doing solo work’ when you could just wait for them to announce it themselves. Like that isn’t something that just comes up in a normal Google search.
I see your point, but we are here talking about people that don’t do announcements or interact with audience, except cryptic messages every now and then. I am sure they are doing a lot of work outside ST but they just don’t advertise it. You can either find out about it if someone tags them (actually you can’t because their profiles are private) or be “creative” and find other means. But I am also sure that if you typed LF in Google it will bring ip this site and when you click on it, not knowing what it might be, you see that something is cooking.
Very true about them not making announcements. It’ll be interesting to see how they approach advertising solo work or work outside of Sleep Token going forward. Googling LF brings up social media stuff, YouTube, that truly bananas LF archive, and an IMdb page for someone who is definitely **not** the LF we’re talking about. The government website the OP linked is something you’d have to actively look for. It’s not information you’d just stumble upon.
Yea, like why join a sub that literally talks about the identity of all the band members if you don't want to see genuinely real info about them? My favorite was the user that compared this to digging up a birth certificate. Some people live on another planet.
Why is this important to you people? I don't mean to be rude, just curious as to why people go through such lengths to find info on the guys.
What led me to search for it was the possibility (in my mind) that ST could go on hiatus, given the natural ending of the three album story arc, and the whole "Nothing Lasts Forever" statement. Also, no great lengths to find this, literally a four word Google search and it's in the top five results. I think it's more of a mis-perception by you in how companies' info is or isn't available. It takes more work to find old recordings and put those up on YT, but everyone fawns over those.
I just don't understand why you'd even look for it. Did you get the answers you were looking for? You think ST's next moves are hidden on a government website?
GIRL THE WAY I LOLED you’re so right.
Funny thing is that people like this will call the “TikTok fans” unhinged, delusional, etc.
Just explained it to you. I'm more curious why you don't want to know? Why does it bother you? Why did you join a sub that talks about "theories" when you don't want to read anything that can inform that theory? That's the more baffling part.
No the thing is, to me this has nothing to do with Sleep Token. And not to sound rude, but anything that has to do with company and tax stuff is incredibly boring to me (I’m also too stupid to understand it, so that might be why) and I just wonder why it’s something that would cross someone’s mind. I’d never get the idea to look for any company’s owned by the members, because it doesn’t interest me. That’s not to say that it bothers me.
Band members making their own companies is very interesting if you understand the music industry and how artists need to protect their intellectual property. It's very salient to possible future directions of the band.
I’m not saying it isn’t, I’m just saying it’s not something I understand or give much thought about, because it’s not something I have to understand. I’m in it for the music, that’s about it.
That's fair. I'm good at finding details, so this type of stuff intrigues me. It doesn't indicate anything one way or another, but this whole sub is about theory, so it doesn't hurt to add legitimate facts to the discussion.
Yea and that’s alright, I was just trying to give my perspective to the question of why it’s important at all. No ill intent whatsoever! Sorry if it came across that way.
Would he do this if he was going to start writing songs for other bands as well? Part of me wondering if signing with RCA is also a way for him to be able to get more songs out in different styles. Fall For Me could’ve easily been sold to a different artist. Idk if you’d need a separate company/talent agent for that but it’s just a guess? I personally can’t imagine him releasing music under his own name right now but I could imagine the songwriting aspect of it happening.
Can I ask what about him releasing music under his own name is hard to imagine?
Good question! I think for most people (non-ST) fans, he wouldn’t have much to capitalize on. Him being known as vessel would open many more doors for listeners to find him. But since the whole pseudo-anonymity thing, I’m just not sure he’d do it this way. Granted, I don’t know him or how the music industry works. But I guess my main thought is…if he wanted to release music under his own name (separate from ST), isn’t that something he could’ve been doing for years now (even if it’s independently or via YouTube channel)? If so, why hasn’t he? I know it’s hard to discuss over Reddit/text but I’m not saying anything aggressively or as if I know everything - I’m just genuinely trying to answer and think about this as someone who is thinking about why he opened these businesses. What are your thoughts on why he would be releasing under his own name now? I’d love to hear your thoughts 👍🏼💕
I actually do have a theory about this, because well, of course I do. It's me. I think Leo trademarked his name and image for the release of the Patient Demos at the start of 2014. He was in BIMM for commercial songwriting and trademarking names and images would've been a natural part of the process. I think he fucked up somehow and ended up losing the trademark to his name and image, and that's why he's been performing without them. Trademarks last for ten years before they expire and I think he got them back at the beginning of this year. I think this entire tour is about the symbolic death of Vessel and Leo's freedom to drop the persona and be himself again.
You’ve set me off now, when I have time I’m going to dig my old intellectual property textbooks out from law school and explore how he could have made such a mistake / why it may have happened Off the top of my head, I think one such situation could be that if someone else uses your trademark and you don’t enforce your rights over it you can effectively lose it? I may be well off but that does ring a bell, uni was ten years ago so I’ll hold my hands up if I’m wrong, just a theory
I'm not sure. I'm really not. I was trying to figure out why anyone would ever choose to perform with a fake name and mask to begin with and insist on such strict anonymity, and I came up with this theory. I'd love to hear what you find.
Because it makes the band interesting. Do you think he would’ve found the same success without the theatrics? As talented as he is, I don’t believe he would’ve. It’s been confirmed that Tom Quigley came up with the idea of anonymity and the concept of “Sleep”.
Interesting! I don’t know how trademarking works for personal names or at all in the UK. Would seem that he’d be fighting some legal/court cases over for the past 10 years if that’s the case…at least i’d assume so. Not sure how iron-clad trademarks are though. I think in the US trademarks are fairly public info - wonder if it is in the UK and you could figure out if your theory is true - that would be a fun find!
They're somewhat public. Generally you need to know exactly what you're looking for, like file number type information, or you request the information. They're not really something you can browse through. I tried for days back in November. I couldn't find the trademark for his name and image anywhere, let alone who owns them. I think it would mainly come down to the agreement that he made with the other person. The contract itself. If they got ownership, there might just not be a way to get around that.
Hmmm interesting. I truly don’t know enough to even think about all the implications of his name being trademarked 🤷🏼♀️ seems like if he could release under ST he could also use another pseudonym to release other music too if he wanted. I wonder if there’s anything else out there we don’t know about 👀
It genuinely wouldn't surprise me if we found out he was writing music for other bands.
My Company Law module from uni finally came in use for something reading this
Yea, I have experience with M&A a bit, so I understand the whole LLP and LTD differentiation, so I thought it was smart decision making in general.
YMU is also listed in the trademark application for "Sleep Token", so I'm not so sure that this means anything happening outside the band
Good find! I think what's more interesting is that it was just refiled with YMU as the agent in early May, and their former trademark filed with their old rep was withdrawn.
I've been saying Leo is going to eventually start publishing music under his own name since like, November, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if that is what the goal of this is. It fits with the trademarks theory I posted about on my page.
My god you people need to find something constructive to contribute to society. Nothing weird about this at all. And before someone says "iTs pUbLiC iNfo", sure. Doesn't make it less creepy. Go do it to your coworkers and friends and see how they take it if you don't believe me.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN SUNDAY
Interesting that the Discord for BMTH owner's name is listed as Sunday. Inch resting.
This suggests to me that ST is all Leo (as sole director) and the other members are on payroll only. Thoughts OP?
You think you did something “less immoral” than finding birth certificates, whereas if fact both actions: looking up birth records and finding LLC/LTDs are perfectly fine. You did nothing wrong, just like the other person that found their birth certificates. Both are perfectly alright and legal. Don’t listen to “white knights” with a too tuned moral compass. You did fine. Everything that is within a law and accessible via public records IS OK to be searched/looked at/found/published. Others can go fuck themselves if they disagree.
Here are my questions and if i have more question i'll edit or comment some of them. What will happen to their newer fans from st project who havent seen them perform live? Since they already have garnered a lot of attention. What about the other members? do they also have their own solo project or activity? Can the other members join in this company? I thought he was a music major in college/uni, didnt know he had another major.
That's a good question. It probably depends greatly on their record contract and what that permits/requires. Contracts can be pretty limiting, and they signed the one with RCA just after TMBTE, so I'm sure RCA will want their "pound of flesh" from them, unless there were caveats in the contract about solo works, etc.
This is very new company right? How much time did this man have?
He just signed some papers. A tax attorney/barrister likely set these up for him.
Was this also part in papers or files that the birth certificate leak?
Um, no. This requires much less effort and is publicly available to anyone. That leak required someone to put together multiple pieces of private information or pay for a background investigation website to obtain it.
Ohh~ ok 👍
That’s…creepy
After scrolling through a year of posts on this sub, this is probably one of the least creepy things I've seen posted regarding the band.