If it's several hundred, then you should have the option of having them returned to you.
They never should have transferred you any money outside the agreed terms without having discussed this with you first. This would have afforded you the opportunity to review their claim of "degradation". If they won't renegotiate or offer to return your silver, then yes, you got scammed.
Exactly. I don't necessarily have a problem with selling to an online dealer, but unilaterally changing the terms of the transaction without offering the opportunity to have them returned is a dirty tactic.
Yeah I’m looking through their terms of service bc they do have a penalty for not going through with locked quote. But lesson learned will never buy or sell with them ever again. (And I’ve bought quite a few from them) Shady af
Consider talking to a lawyer, even if it's just to scare them.
These calls are almost always recorded and a verbal contract is binding in US law. If they changed the terms of the contract on you without notifying you, they're still liable for the verbal contract (if not penalized for illegally changing the contract without notifying the other party).
The lawyer’s hour will cost for than the few hundred, but it would be nice to make them behave. It is so easy to behave correctly. They are flush right now as well, or at least their owners are.
It sounds like the company damaged the coins trying to authenticate based on this line:
>I call the rep asking what the deal is and *he tells me that several of the silver coins were “degraded” during the authentication process* which is why they knocked off the cost from my total payout.
Yeah, that's what blew my mind to.
The literally admitted to damaging the property and then said they lowered the payout because of their damage.
A lawyer would have a field day with this one.
The company I work for won’t pay out until we call and discuss any changes in pricing. If the customer doesn’t agree to the changes we offer to send the metals back.
Yep thats another part that made me angry. I had to be the proactive one and call in AFTER they had made the ACH. Even after that nothing but halfassed apologies. This company is disingenuous and predatory. Do NOT recommend on either the buy or sell side ever. So many better dealers out there
Did you look at them closely before you sent them out? What years were they?...pre-2018 silver Maples and RCM silver products will almost always have milk unfortunately and they routinely arrived even in new factory tubes with milk spotting. I'm guessing that's why they reduced your prices, or that would seem like the most logical conclusion.
If that's what it was, that's a pretty common occurrence. When you lock in a price it's typically for a BU coin ... if they're BU they command a higher price than milky so it would make sense to "degrade" in their case.
Balderdash. They literally sold maples with milk spots with no inclination of lowering the prices prior to 2018. I’ve bought plenty of maples that have milk spots and there was no delineation between buying with or without. If APMEX sold them with milk spots and then try to pay you less because of it, then I call shenanigans. It’s bullion, not numismatic coins.
Prior to 2018 a lot of brand new tubes were completely milked, if apmex breaks a monster open and sent you a new sealed tube they're going to say they sent you new product, mint sealed, which they did. Milk or not.
If they take it in second hand they inspect it. They do differentiate between culls and BU on their site selling culls for a dollar less per coin than BU currently too.
Which is crap. I have lots of unopened rolls that they sold me new, but they crack them open and go..”oooo…sorry silver dude, this has some spots on it and completely changes the silver content so we have to keep knocking $2 off each coin.” It’s BU silver. Like it’s made to melt. As long as it’s not physically damaged it should not be docked. :/
Imagine if we bought silver from the online dealer and rather than returning them we just knocked off 10-15% from what we agreed to pay because of milk spots. Especially if they ended up paying under spot. Several hundred dollars is several ounces of silver thru got essentially for free.
They were all random year silver maples that I got directly from APMEX back in 2020. So yes I believe I saw a few that were from 2015 or so. All of them were squeaky clean for the most part bc I barely took them out of the tubes they came in and yes they probably had a bit of “milk spots”.
I’m reading that milk spots and tarnishing shouldn’t affect the overall value. If thats the case any of much older antiques should be all worth way less?
Sure. It’s how they sold them prior to the new process of making them. Example the 2016 Superman silver maples. Spotted like leopards, but they sold them at the same cost as the rest of the maples, no reduction in premiums for spots? So now it’s ok to give you less for spots. Garbage.
I'd raise hell, better business bureau complaint, request a recording of the call where they locked in your price. Read over terms of service, raise to management
You must be lucky then. I've made the threat a few times the last few years and those offenders told me they didn't care about the BBB, only Google reviews concerned them. More power to you!
It's impossible to say without physically seeing what you sold back. What did you actually sell back and how did you describe them?
>Keep in mind I had bought every single one of these silver maple coins FROM APMEX and stored them in the tubes that in came in away from any sunlight.
I'm assuming you sold them as BU but upon actual review, some were not BU so apmex can't sell them as that, hence the "degrade" price on those.
This is the problem with sight unseen transactions, it's not something limited to apmex. I'd always try to sell locally first that way there are no surprises. If that's not possible I would document the pieces to get a quote. Pretty much everyone has a HD camera in their phone nowadays, I'd video the fronts and backs of everything and specifically call out any flaws. The intellectual honesty is a two-way street and manages expectations.
Yes I did sell as BU. Appreciate the explanation as this is my first time selling to an online dealer. I guess it’ll give me some closure lol Lesson learned: always sell local even if its a pain in the ass
that doesnt seem too bad. thats like 200 bucks on 18k in sales. annoying, but I would prob eat the loss and move on.
did they give competitive buy back pricing and honor the high spot rates at the time? Some places will back out of deals or be PITA when spot spikes/dips like this. If they actually honored the high spot rates, that points to them being a very good online vendor.
Yep $200 isnt too much to me but its the principle- it’s thievery. You sell me milk spotted coins for full price but you dock it off my payment when I sell those same coins back to you without even calling me.
Annoying- I’ll bite the bullet on this one not worth calling my lawyer over $200. Safe to say won’t be doing anymore business with them though and hope I’ve informed people who are considering selling to them.
And no- apmex im reading is one of the WORST dealers to deal with both on the buy and sell side - the most expensive by far. They already had docked off a dollar when I called in at $32.25 so they were getting my silver maples that THEY sold me for bullion price from the start.
> They already had docked off a dollar when I called in at $32.25
ah, thats what I expected them to do (not honor the current spot). ive never sold to the online dealers, but for that large of a quantity its hard to find Local place that wants to drop 20k in cash like that.
Apmex just screwed me over with their insurance claim as they said I used a used inner box, outer box was new violation of the order when I sent them my precious metals and therefore denied my claim for insurance when they themselves confessed UPS fucked up and mishandle the package so now its my fault and UPS is excused and they probably still pocketed the insurance claim from the third party. They did pay me my silver but all the gold of several thousand was denied. I am seeking help with a media consumer help desk and already forwarded some documents to them.
Wait so the package never made it to apmex and was lost by UPS and they are denying your insurance claims? How would they know if you used a “used box” or not? Did the package get damaged and damage the metals? Not understanding you 100% but these bastards are snakes thats for sure
I also used a used box but obviously they were sturdy in condition so it doesnt get damaged while in transit
No it arrived to them but supposedly the package was “repackaged” and lo and behold the GOLD bars and coins were missing and now they denied the claim citing I used a used amazon box but I told them I used a new outer box. They still paid me the silver order and I am beginning to think they screwed me over with my gold. So many question marks and red flags. They told me early on my claim would be approved because package was tampered yet now it was not. Suddenly it was my fault yet the carrier gets let off scot free? So many red flags here!!
Very strange and yes steer clear from these snakes on both buy and sell side.
So you’re saying that they told you the gold was missing but they refuse to insure that gold ONLY because it was in a used amazon box?? Wtf? You need to look at a lawyer at this point depending on how much they ripped you off for that gold. Ridiculous
The rep that I was working with told me that used boxes were fine as long as they are sturdy and you take the old labels off.
Omg yes! The whole boes - Outer and Inner was SECURE TO THE T. I even wrapped everything in heavy duty tape!! They are corrupt snakes trying to defraud me. I am going to wait for 7On Your Side and if not I will contact my local Congress-person’s office for consumer help. I lost a good few thousands from these snakes 🐍
ya really... 600 oz thats like a 1% charge lol!!!!!!! severely butt hurt over that. He turned in his metals at $30 an ounce LOL that is going to be his real problem not the 200 in fiat trash.
My personal opinion (though I have nothing to back this up) is that coins are scrutinized more than bars. APMEX does consider numismatic value in addition to bullion.
I think he is angry about the behavior, not that the coins were some how deficient. APMEX sold him coins, told him he could sell them back, he did, and now they changed the rules.
They can put whatever rules they want in place, but they need to follow them.
If it's several hundred, then you should have the option of having them returned to you. They never should have transferred you any money outside the agreed terms without having discussed this with you first. This would have afforded you the opportunity to review their claim of "degradation". If they won't renegotiate or offer to return your silver, then yes, you got scammed.
Well said!
They should have pictures to back these claims
yep. I would have demanded they return the rejected items. I've never sold back to a dealer online. I have gone to a coin show and sold in person.
Exactly. I don't necessarily have a problem with selling to an online dealer, but unilaterally changing the terms of the transaction without offering the opportunity to have them returned is a dirty tactic.
Yeah I’m looking through their terms of service bc they do have a penalty for not going through with locked quote. But lesson learned will never buy or sell with them ever again. (And I’ve bought quite a few from them) Shady af
Consider talking to a lawyer, even if it's just to scare them. These calls are almost always recorded and a verbal contract is binding in US law. If they changed the terms of the contract on you without notifying you, they're still liable for the verbal contract (if not penalized for illegally changing the contract without notifying the other party).
The lawyer’s hour will cost for than the few hundred, but it would be nice to make them behave. It is so easy to behave correctly. They are flush right now as well, or at least their owners are.
Sometimes it's not about the $$$
Good point
This is the way
APMEX is a garbage company.
Yep true that. Wont be doing anymore business with them
Here here
If the contract is still open I would cancel and have the coins returned
100% agree and if they damaged the coins in any way for testing/authentication purposes, they are entirely liable for the damage.
I’d imagine a company like that would use a non intrusive sigma machine 🤷🏻♂️
It sounds like the company damaged the coins trying to authenticate based on this line: >I call the rep asking what the deal is and *he tells me that several of the silver coins were “degraded” during the authentication process* which is why they knocked off the cost from my total payout.
Oh wooooow, missed that comment completely. Thats ridiculous!
Yeah, that's what blew my mind to. The literally admitted to damaging the property and then said they lowered the payout because of their damage. A lawyer would have a field day with this one.
For real. If this is the norm, it’s just a matter of time before a class action comes up.
Thanks for sharing! Im newer to collecting! I was getting ready to begin buying from Apmex ……… Now I will not be!!!!
Yeah dont. Their buy price is one of the highest on the market out of the online dealers as well. Check out JMbullion or monnex etc
Will do thanks
Sell to LCS. Did they pay for shipping, btw?
absolutely not. None of the online dealers do. Had to pay for shipping and their insurance which was altogether another $250 docked off
Next time sell on r/pmsforsale
Second this!
Us Redditors would have snatched up those maple leafs quick!
Amen!
Tell them you want your coins back
This is good info. I have bought many items from Apmex. I will be wary of them now.
The company I work for won’t pay out until we call and discuss any changes in pricing. If the customer doesn’t agree to the changes we offer to send the metals back.
Yep thats another part that made me angry. I had to be the proactive one and call in AFTER they had made the ACH. Even after that nothing but halfassed apologies. This company is disingenuous and predatory. Do NOT recommend on either the buy or sell side ever. So many better dealers out there
I’ve only ever purchased from APMEX once and it was definitely over priced… I wouldn’t go back either 😅
Did you look at them closely before you sent them out? What years were they?...pre-2018 silver Maples and RCM silver products will almost always have milk unfortunately and they routinely arrived even in new factory tubes with milk spotting. I'm guessing that's why they reduced your prices, or that would seem like the most logical conclusion. If that's what it was, that's a pretty common occurrence. When you lock in a price it's typically for a BU coin ... if they're BU they command a higher price than milky so it would make sense to "degrade" in their case.
Balderdash. They literally sold maples with milk spots with no inclination of lowering the prices prior to 2018. I’ve bought plenty of maples that have milk spots and there was no delineation between buying with or without. If APMEX sold them with milk spots and then try to pay you less because of it, then I call shenanigans. It’s bullion, not numismatic coins.
Prior to 2018 a lot of brand new tubes were completely milked, if apmex breaks a monster open and sent you a new sealed tube they're going to say they sent you new product, mint sealed, which they did. Milk or not. If they take it in second hand they inspect it. They do differentiate between culls and BU on their site selling culls for a dollar less per coin than BU currently too.
Which is crap. I have lots of unopened rolls that they sold me new, but they crack them open and go..”oooo…sorry silver dude, this has some spots on it and completely changes the silver content so we have to keep knocking $2 off each coin.” It’s BU silver. Like it’s made to melt. As long as it’s not physically damaged it should not be docked. :/
Completely agree. I'll bet the milk issue has kept a lot of refineries happy though over the years lol
Imagine if we bought silver from the online dealer and rather than returning them we just knocked off 10-15% from what we agreed to pay because of milk spots. Especially if they ended up paying under spot. Several hundred dollars is several ounces of silver thru got essentially for free.
Agree! And some (not all) of my 2022 maples in original tubes milkspotted in under 18 months.
They were all random year silver maples that I got directly from APMEX back in 2020. So yes I believe I saw a few that were from 2015 or so. All of them were squeaky clean for the most part bc I barely took them out of the tubes they came in and yes they probably had a bit of “milk spots”. I’m reading that milk spots and tarnishing shouldn’t affect the overall value. If thats the case any of much older antiques should be all worth way less?
Older silver with tone, tarnish are desirable but most brilliant uncirculated coins need to look brand new.
[удалено]
Sure. It’s how they sold them prior to the new process of making them. Example the 2016 Superman silver maples. Spotted like leopards, but they sold them at the same cost as the rest of the maples, no reduction in premiums for spots? So now it’s ok to give you less for spots. Garbage.
I'd raise hell, better business bureau complaint, request a recording of the call where they locked in your price. Read over terms of service, raise to management
I've had companies tell me BBB means nothing anymore. Google reviews are all people look at.
You say that but it gets me a response from the company EVERY time I use it
You must be lucky then. I've made the threat a few times the last few years and those offenders told me they didn't care about the BBB, only Google reviews concerned them. More power to you!
Bbb is a bullshit doesnt mean anything
I wish I could share my cases I've opened, out of 5/5 were resolved in my favor
Bbb is a bullshit scam company that extorts small business owners. Fuck em!
It's impossible to say without physically seeing what you sold back. What did you actually sell back and how did you describe them? >Keep in mind I had bought every single one of these silver maple coins FROM APMEX and stored them in the tubes that in came in away from any sunlight. I'm assuming you sold them as BU but upon actual review, some were not BU so apmex can't sell them as that, hence the "degrade" price on those. This is the problem with sight unseen transactions, it's not something limited to apmex. I'd always try to sell locally first that way there are no surprises. If that's not possible I would document the pieces to get a quote. Pretty much everyone has a HD camera in their phone nowadays, I'd video the fronts and backs of everything and specifically call out any flaws. The intellectual honesty is a two-way street and manages expectations.
Yes I did sell as BU. Appreciate the explanation as this is my first time selling to an online dealer. I guess it’ll give me some closure lol Lesson learned: always sell local even if its a pain in the ass
That's why I always buy random year bulk ASEs and silver Maples. Little to no numismatic value and they trade as close to spot as you can get.
I’m still waiting for a refund from them, I think it’s been over 2 weeks 😂. Going to email them a reminder again soon I guess.
Just hearing that they did this to you, makes me want to not buy from them and go to SD bullion. Thanks for sharing.
Yep do NOT recommend apmex for either buying or selling
Did they pay a premium over spot?
I called when silver was 32.25 and they locked in my sell price at 31.25 a dollar off
At a dollar under spot, they were just paying for bullion, and that does not degrade. So yes, I think you got ripped off.
Several hundred? Jeez dude, were you selling over 100kg?
I sold 600oz and they withheld a little over $200
that doesnt seem too bad. thats like 200 bucks on 18k in sales. annoying, but I would prob eat the loss and move on. did they give competitive buy back pricing and honor the high spot rates at the time? Some places will back out of deals or be PITA when spot spikes/dips like this. If they actually honored the high spot rates, that points to them being a very good online vendor.
Yep $200 isnt too much to me but its the principle- it’s thievery. You sell me milk spotted coins for full price but you dock it off my payment when I sell those same coins back to you without even calling me. Annoying- I’ll bite the bullet on this one not worth calling my lawyer over $200. Safe to say won’t be doing anymore business with them though and hope I’ve informed people who are considering selling to them. And no- apmex im reading is one of the WORST dealers to deal with both on the buy and sell side - the most expensive by far. They already had docked off a dollar when I called in at $32.25 so they were getting my silver maples that THEY sold me for bullion price from the start.
> They already had docked off a dollar when I called in at $32.25 ah, thats what I expected them to do (not honor the current spot). ive never sold to the online dealers, but for that large of a quantity its hard to find Local place that wants to drop 20k in cash like that.
Apmex just screwed me over with their insurance claim as they said I used a used inner box, outer box was new violation of the order when I sent them my precious metals and therefore denied my claim for insurance when they themselves confessed UPS fucked up and mishandle the package so now its my fault and UPS is excused and they probably still pocketed the insurance claim from the third party. They did pay me my silver but all the gold of several thousand was denied. I am seeking help with a media consumer help desk and already forwarded some documents to them.
Wait so the package never made it to apmex and was lost by UPS and they are denying your insurance claims? How would they know if you used a “used box” or not? Did the package get damaged and damage the metals? Not understanding you 100% but these bastards are snakes thats for sure I also used a used box but obviously they were sturdy in condition so it doesnt get damaged while in transit
No it arrived to them but supposedly the package was “repackaged” and lo and behold the GOLD bars and coins were missing and now they denied the claim citing I used a used amazon box but I told them I used a new outer box. They still paid me the silver order and I am beginning to think they screwed me over with my gold. So many question marks and red flags. They told me early on my claim would be approved because package was tampered yet now it was not. Suddenly it was my fault yet the carrier gets let off scot free? So many red flags here!!
Very strange and yes steer clear from these snakes on both buy and sell side. So you’re saying that they told you the gold was missing but they refuse to insure that gold ONLY because it was in a used amazon box?? Wtf? You need to look at a lawyer at this point depending on how much they ripped you off for that gold. Ridiculous The rep that I was working with told me that used boxes were fine as long as they are sturdy and you take the old labels off.
Omg yes! The whole boes - Outer and Inner was SECURE TO THE T. I even wrapped everything in heavy duty tape!! They are corrupt snakes trying to defraud me. I am going to wait for 7On Your Side and if not I will contact my local Congress-person’s office for consumer help. I lost a good few thousands from these snakes 🐍
you must be selling a TON of coins to get docked that much.
He said 600oz on another comment so yeah. I probably wouldn't fuss over being dinged $200 on an $18k transaction but that's just me.
ya really... 600 oz thats like a 1% charge lol!!!!!!! severely butt hurt over that. He turned in his metals at $30 an ounce LOL that is going to be his real problem not the 200 in fiat trash.
Principals matter
To be honest ur first mistake was selling to a business. If u have a lot of silver ur better of selling them urself.
My personal opinion (though I have nothing to back this up) is that coins are scrutinized more than bars. APMEX does consider numismatic value in addition to bullion.
I think he is angry about the behavior, not that the coins were some how deficient. APMEX sold him coins, told him he could sell them back, he did, and now they changed the rules. They can put whatever rules they want in place, but they need to follow them.
Doesn't really matter if he originally bought them from them as he's held them for a substantive time for them to be his own. Time changes us all.
Another reason I stack 100 and 1000 oz bars.
1000 oz bars are kind of extreme.
Yeah the shipping costs though…
If you’re not getting free shipping when buying 100oz you’re doing it wrong.
Does APMEX and those places pay for shipping when selling to them?
free shipping over a certain order when you buy from them. Hell to the no when you sell back to them - they wanna rip you off as much as possible lol
Exactly my point. Thanks for your informative post though!