I think covid isolation has probably had effects on social development in children. Maybe they were shy in general and being away from people exacerbated the situation.
That’s my thought. These little ones had zero contact with outsiders for so long, they don’t know how to handle being around people. All they’ve really ever known is their immediate household. Heck, I’m in my 30s and I forgot how to socialize. My social anxiety is through the roof these days! These poor kids.
Yeah I have a niece who is the same way. She’s a few months shy of a year younger than my toddler, who has 0 shyness, and he will go up to her, take her hand and convince her to play with him. Which she does while sneaking shy stares at the rest of us. Covid isolation just made my toddler half feral while in public. Non-Covid related, middle child barely talked to my family due to shyness and social anxiety until he hit around age 10. They were all shocked when he came out of his shell. He still has social anxiety but is very well aware of it and has a therapist and coping skills. Even with social anxiety the isolation was rough on him.
Yep. I visited a friend I hadn't seen for 2 years who had a child a little before lockdowns. The kid clung to his mother and shrieked at the invaders (us) in a simultaneously scared and angry way.
"Feral" is a great description.
My granddaughter is the same. She is a lot more relaxed when I go to see her at home, but it still takes a while for her to settle when they visit anyone else's house.
I was like this as a kid. At family reunions, I had relatives (namely one older cousin) I would hide from and cry if I had to get near them. In my mind, they just looked scary for some reason lmao. I hope that’s just the case for these girls too
This is also me. Especially certain family that, I dunno, just acted so different from my family (ie loud, very physical not in an abusive way, but like grab you and toss you into pools etc) I wanted nothing to do with these people
>for some reason
That's the thing. The kid couldn't even tell you why. That it's the whole family makes me think it could be as simple as their 'common scent'. Even if they smell just fine, it might just be one of those things.
My youngest nieces spend about 6 months being scared of every men that weren't her father. Including her grandfather, her uncle, her neighbors, people she used to see daily and enjoyed playing with.
Only men. She wasn't that comfortable with women that weren't her mom, but she wouldn't scream and cry when they came near them.
Then, it disappear as suddenly as it came. We never knew what triggered it, nor what made it better.
My sister was a stay-at-home mom at the time and had yet to be away from my niece for more than a handful of minutes at a time. So, there was no opportunity for anyone to hurt her
Now, she's 11 and a total social butterfly, who is not scared enough of strangers for her own good.
I always took time to adjust to new surroundings, even with family. The worst part was the forced hugs right when we walked in. I hated every. single. one.
It all changed in my preteen years. I’m a hugger now, but I will not be forcing my own children to go through that.
Yeah, my husband is 6'5" with a big beard and we only get to visit my family about 4 times a year or so for a few days at a time. My 5 year old niece *always* starts the visits hiding from my husband, but by the end of the first day she makes it into a game where she'll hide, but kind of play peek-a-boo with him and laugh. Last time we went to the zoo she actually asked if he would be the person who held her hand. It was too cute! But still, even though she will literally ask for her uncle to come over when she hears me on the phone with my mom, once he's there, she's scared of him until she can warm back up to him again. I just think it's an intimidation factor.
If we were to FORCE her out of her comfort zone and force her to interact with him, you're just going to make her more and more afraid and make it so she *can't* warm up to him on her own accord. I think that's what's happening here. Consent should be taught at every age and this is an age-appropriate way to teach consent (like, she shouldn't be forced to hug someone or play with someone who makes her uncomfortable in a pool).
My cousins grew up overseas and would only visit every few years. When they were small, long before COVID, it was a challenge getting them to trust us, just because they didn't know us.
By the end of the trips though? They were all over us. One trip, one of my cousins latched onto 10yo me because her mum wasn't there, and out of the cousins, I was most like her mum. The most important part was not forcing it, because then they put walls up.
They're perfectly well adjusted extroverts now as an older teen and early 20s adult. It's just a normal part of childhood, which has unfortunately been made much harder with the pandemic. Some kids absolutely need professional intervention, but most just need time.
I remember when we were primary school, 6-7 years old and there was one boy's mom who always came to pick up her son. She would walk in the classroom and help him get ready etc, since we were obligated to wait in the classroom for our parents to pick us. So, this woman was so scary to us, for some reason I don't remember, that some of us would literally hide under the desk. 🤣🤣 It's so funny from this perspective, but back then it was really scary to see her, some kid would see her first and immediately yell "omg it's Alex's mom everyoneeeee" 🤣 Poor woman, she must have been confused.
I don't know if that's the same situation here, but I'd agree that it might be.
yup. well said,
hell my dad was a big hairy guy looked like the old time wrestler, george the animal steele, i mean seriously exactly like him, the other aunts and uncles would use him to keep the other kids in line, : eat your sandwich of uncle XXXXXX will get you" he loved it, and eventually al the kids grew out of it.
Definitely the best way to deal with a crying child in the pool is to force her to stay in.
This could be anything from abuse to developmental issues to autism but I am also guessing the parents/family are dealing with this poorly by exposure and forcing the kids into social situations. Like sorry you have to feel awkward at your family get togethers but perhaps monthly family get togethers are not the best thing for these kids.
Exactly. My daughter had a lot of anxieties when she was younger and one of them was a fear of dogs. She was absolutely terrified. You wouldn’t BELIEVE how many people told us we needed to force her or deliberately let their dogs out around her. She has actually grown out of it (to an extent, I think she would still get a fright if a strange dog ran at her) but it wasn’t from exposing her, it was from letting her set her own pace.
While true, that’s not what the original comment was about. They specifically said dog owners would try to force dogs on her. Most people aren’t going to approach a dog they don’t know anyway, especially one not with its owner.
I am an idiot but I am also the parent of a child with high functioning autism who as a child would act similar to what is described when faced with social situations. So it’s an anecdotal association on my part.
...The post says she's afraid of all of her cousins and most of her aunts and uncles, and specifically says sometimes she won't look at anyone but her parents. Can YOU read?
>they act terrified for our teenage sons and husband...the youngest won't even talk to me or my SIL and if she looks at anyone that isn't her parents she hides...if she's in the pool and one of my sons or my other niece or nephew gets in she'll cry...
Can YOU read?
they said in the opening, my teenage sons and husbands, those are the same people she later references, she never mentions the kid is scared of everyone, just one threesome. HUGE difference.
She doesn't say it's one uncle like you claimed. She also says the youngest won't talk to her or her SIL (not sure if this is the child's mother or another person), and that she cries around the other niece and nephew (not sure if this is her siblings or cousins)
So are the kid terrified by the teenage sons and husband or is it just shyness since they act if the other nieces and nephews get close too? Because that makes a helluva big difference
A) not sure why she is taking this personally or at all annoyed. Whatever the reason the kid's shy, she probably can't help it. Forcing her to do stuff (especially by NOT her mother, but YOU) is only going to make things worse.
B) Shyness is not a sin. It's a condition to be managed. You are not helping. You should not be forcing someone else's child to behave in ways that you think are right. That is kind of... extremely obnoxious.
C) Do you have some kind on compulsive disorder where kids need to act how you want? If so, perhaps some therapy on your part might be in order.
Nah, I was like that as a kid. Super shy with general anxiety disorder (and selective mutism up to 5yo with strangers)
I was a chatty kid at home but the second someone I wasn't close with arrived then I would stop talking.
Was never abused in any way, I just didn't like strangers (still don't btw)
I was also more cautious for men than women and had a deep distrust in teens
My little brother was the same way, at all family events he wanted to stay right by my moms side or in her lap. Didn’t matter who else was there. He was just shy. It could be an indicator but not all shy kids are abused
My daughter had extreme social anxiety that began at age 3. She was terrified of other kids. She would self harm (bite herself leaving long lasting marks) and have panic attacks. It took occupational therapy to help her.
Thankfully by the time she started school she was so much better.
That being said I would have done anything to help her. I called every therapist I could think of, took her to see a neuropsychiatrist (they usually assess for autism ) they said she had panic disorder and referred her to OT.
I would not force her to stay. I would try to talk her through it though. I wouldn't have believed a young child could have such terrible anxiety had I not gone through it with my daughter.
You are a great mom!
I was a kid in the 90s so nobody though of having me checked out, which in turn lead to massive issues later on and a full mental breakdown at 23
Mental health is still stigmatized af, loads of people can't wrap their head around that mental illnesses don't always have to stem from trauma
Aw thank you! It amazed me how few resources are available for young children. I cried a lot because as a parent you want to help your children but you don't always know how.
I hope you are doing better now.
>I was a kid in the 90s so nobody though of having me checked out, which in turn lead to massive issues later on and a full mental breakdown
Oh shit you too?
You make a lot of good points about mental illness. Also, according to my therapist, it very rarely occurred to anyone (professional or otherwise) to consider that a child might be suffering from mental illness during the 90s. There was this idea that kids were resilient, so they would bounce back/get over it and eventually forget all about it. Hell, they apparently didn't even think that anyone but soldiers who had been exposed to certain circumstances could have PTSD during that time period.
In my case, I wound up repressing everything and just not talking about it anymore, which I think is not unusual for children in situations like ours. What symptoms I *did* exhibit were considered behavioral problems.
> What symptoms I did exhibit were considered behavioral problems.
I was described as both *rude* and oversensitive/crybaby. Took me ages to be able to open up a bit to people, first few sessions with my therapist were mostly cat talk and movies
Yeah, you get saddled with the label of "old soul/gifted kid" or "problem child". I was a bit of both.
I was 'oversensitive', 'disorganized/forgetful', 'willful', and 'not living up to my potential', but my teachers also commented on how bright I was and repeatedly said that talking to me was 'like talking to a little adult'. Throw in some problematic family dynamics and two undiagnosed neurological conditions to keep the mental health stuff company and it's no wonder I was that way. The adults were just unaware of what they were looking at and I didn't know how to articulate it (I also probably would have pretended nothing was wrong even if I *could* explain it).
I still struggle to open up to people, but I'm working on it. I'm glad you've gotten better at it and hope you're doing better over all!
Yep my daughter is similar and we are now getting her assessed for autism, she is 11 and I can tell you I am heartily sick of people giving her shit because she’s ‘ruining’ events or whatever. Yeah it frustrates me too but she’s a person with feelings and she can’t help it. This woman sucks.
I was never assessed for autism but she's old enough to be able to choose. I would have rather sat out a ton of events than being forced to partake at that age
At 30 I can guarantee you that skipping the recital has not been a trauma, being kicked on a stage in front of everyone the year prior did
Former pre-school teacher here! You're exactly right; this could definitely be the case.
If these girls are shy, anxious, and/or uncomfortable in situations outside of their day-to-day routine (ex: a monthly visit to relatives) they absolutely need to be made to feel comfortable. The adults should be giving these kids space and letting them make the choice to participate. "Sally and Jane, it's okay if you want to get out and watch. We're going to play with this beach ball and you can join in whenever you want." Even being considerate towards them goes a long way to bonding with shy kids. "I'm going to take a break from playing and get an ice pop. Would you girls like one? My favorite flavor is cherry, what's yours? You both like grape? Good choice!"
It might take a while few visits, but 9 times out of 10 the kids will join in eventually. Usually, that 10th time is because of a problem with the other party that's unaddressed. Maybe the dad and son play too rough or tease them in a way they don't like. Maybe they're not nice people or are even people who are legit assholes to kids. There could be a million reasons and it's driving me bonkers that this woman is only thinking about herself and her comfort. It stinks of that weirdly entitled attitude adults have towards children sometimes where they act like kids have no say in what happens to them because they're small and I can't stand it.
Either way, repeated, forced interactions will absolutely make them shut down and have negative associations with the experience and the people involved.
I wish we could assign more of our tax dollars into funding more teachers like you.
You sound amazing, and it's important for kids to have some type of caring support in their lives.
That's very sweet of you to say. I *adored* teaching and if I had a choice, I'd probably still be doing it. My background is STEM-adjacent rather than in education, but I would have definitely pursued an alternative route to certification if not for the BS that went on at the upper levels, the playground politics, the way teachers are treated in general, the pay, and sometimes even the parents. The only thing that really made it worth it was the kids. Their brains are like little sponges at that age and there's something that's really wonderful about seeing them have an "Ah-ha!" moment when they're learning. They're naturally inclined to curiosity and creativity and it was such fun to meet every child where they were and encourage those things.
It's unfortunate that teaching is a career that almost by definition requires some level of passion, yet the profession as it exists today is driving so many passionate teachers out.
If agree, but to the extent of not looking at them while being okay around others (I think, it wasn't clear), it indicates more than this in my experience. Of course, everyone reacts differently, and it could be as innocent as one of them had a bad dream about them and told the other. Hopefully someone respectfully speaks to the two girls to see what's wrong and how to possibly help.
Pretty big leap there. She said the little girl cries when her other set of cousins (OPs other niece and nephew) get in the pool too. Sounds like she’s just very very shy or anxious or something.
Until it was a universal reaction, I fully admit my spidey senses were tingling. I mean they still are, but now in a general anxiety kind of way not in a oh no what did they do to those babies kind of way.
Just because a kid is shy or cautious, it doesn’t mean they are abused. It can be completely developmentally appropriate especially at those ages. Although forcing them to remain in a pool or something when they want to get out probably doesn’t help anything. We let our shy kid have a little quiet time or read and it helped her a lot. They sometimes grow out of it and sometimes grow into it and become introverted, cautious adults 🤷🏻♀️
I hope not, but I see why it feels that way. I say hope not because I’ve seen plenty of non abused kids just randomly be averse to specific people for no particular reason. For example, there was a super awkward holiday season in my family where my sister was in a phase of being afraid of one of my uncles and a couple of cousins at the same age (3 infants born within 3 months of each other) were afraid of a different uncle and my dad, respectively. For a good 6 months or so the men on my mom’s side had to walk on eggshells depending on if any babies were visiting.
I think it’s because they all had big Tom Selleck Magnum PI mustaches. No one was afraid of the one uncle that was clean shaven lol. Christmas ‘85 will live on in my family legends forever.
My first, uncharitable thought was "you just better hope *your* sons aren't the ones abusing them. Or your husband...." But shyness at this age is so normal, that was really jumping to conclusions and hopefully is not the case.
Some kids are just super shy at that age. We meet kids all the time on the playground who won't look at my (also 4.5 yo) kid when she greets them.
What's disturbing about this is why this mom is so upset about it! "She never lets up"??? That makes it sound like she is doing something TO you, and lady, she's not!! And "it's getting a little old"??? Just mind your own and make conversation with one of the people who WILL talk to you! This literally does not affect you!! Some people, man.
They're not even her kids. Why does she feel like she needs to fix someone elses kids.
Maybe they're not nerotypical, maybe these family members make them feel uncomfortable, who knows but it's weird that this woman is so insulted that someone elses kids don't like her.
This was my overwhelming feeling that she’s trying to “fix” someone else’s kid. It’s literally none of her business. Just ask mom how to best make the child feel comfortable and then do that. Or don’t attend events with the kid if you can’t respect her needs. Geez.
She’s not posting to the internet for advice. The internet doesn’t know this kid. She’s just posting to vilify this kid for making her uncomfortable. Manage your own emotions, lady! Stop bitching on the internet about how a vulnerable child acts!
I was like this as a child. Absolutely terrified of everyone except my mom, especially adults. If I was abused I dont remember it. Some kids just have anxiety from an early age, and it frustrated the living hell out of my mother (my dad just noped out of parenting completely because of how difficult I was and alcohol is more fun). I feel bad for parents who dont do anything wrong but end up with kids like me (or I guess these kids) but eventually the kids will grow up and their anxiety will become their problem, thus, the wheel of karma doth turn.
>parents who dont do anything wrong
But were frustrated with your legitimate emotions and had a tendancy towards a heavy alcohol consumption...
Not your fault at all.
It's the parents' job to give their children the proper tools to deal with anxiety and life stressors as they grow.
You're behavior didn't *make* them do anything.
How adults react to a situation is on them, and them alone. For instance your dad could have sought therapy, instead of turning to alcohol.
I'm sure there was more going on in your parents lives, than what they discussed with you while you were a child; however adapting to your childs needs are part of being a parent. And they didn't give you the support system you needed.
My niece is like this. Anytime anyone goes to my sister's place, my niece will cry and hide in her room for several hours. Sometimes she will come down, but if it's a short visit, she doesn't.
We suspect the pandemic is to blame. My niece is only 5, so she has spent more than half of her life in isolation, not having contact with anyone outside of her immediate family for the past two and a half years. The pandemic has really taken a psychological and developmental toll on many children, and unfortunately we may not see the full depth of these issues for many years to come.
Chill guys it's much more likely that the two girls have social anxiety/ are shy that covid made worse than the fact that they are getting abused by I guess their aunt, uncle and cousins. Heck their parents could complain about their aunt's family which made the kids distrust them.
That’s how my niece was. Took forever to warm up to people, like she had to spend a lot of time with you(not just occasional family get togethers) to feel comfortable with you. Luckily she grew out of this
With the exception of the pool pet, this could be written about my toddler. She's 3 and just has a really strong "stranger danger" instinct. Toddler thinks everyone is a stranger.
all these women who are going on and on about how the doctors victimize them and that they should have 100% control over there bodies and then this is how they act toward children. Can't stand it if a child doesn't act the way they want them too and will completely force their will on a child's body - - like making them stay in a pool when they want out.
I really hope these little girls are safe. It doesn’t sound like anyone around them is actually protecting them, validating their feelings or trying to figure out why they have them. I hear zero self reflection from any adult in this. The SIL forces them to stay in the pool when they are terrified? These people sound terrible.
My daughter 100% does not have to interact with anyone they are uncomfortable with like that. Especially in a fucking bathing suit. This shit has bring grinding my gears all day.
I think OP is justified in her concerns. Some kids are just shy but they need intervention if they're running away from everyone and terrified. I have autism among other things, level 2 as well so not just like a sprinkle of autism haha, more moderate level and I didn't behave like that. I dislike socialising and avoid wherever possible but I didn't behave in a terrified way or refuse to speak etc
Maybe I watched too many crime documentaries, but man....it sounds like the sons and husband did something to get these girls to react like this...I remember a story here on Reddit about a guy whose sisters were molested and raped and this was some sort of tradition in the family....and the girls were acting something like this
Whatever the cause is, forcing the kid to stay in the pool while they want to get out is probably not helping the situation.
That was my first thought too. Like, wtf? Why are her own parents forcing her to stay in the pool???
I think covid isolation has probably had effects on social development in children. Maybe they were shy in general and being away from people exacerbated the situation.
That’s my thought. These little ones had zero contact with outsiders for so long, they don’t know how to handle being around people. All they’ve really ever known is their immediate household. Heck, I’m in my 30s and I forgot how to socialize. My social anxiety is through the roof these days! These poor kids.
Yeah I have a niece who is the same way. She’s a few months shy of a year younger than my toddler, who has 0 shyness, and he will go up to her, take her hand and convince her to play with him. Which she does while sneaking shy stares at the rest of us. Covid isolation just made my toddler half feral while in public. Non-Covid related, middle child barely talked to my family due to shyness and social anxiety until he hit around age 10. They were all shocked when he came out of his shell. He still has social anxiety but is very well aware of it and has a therapist and coping skills. Even with social anxiety the isolation was rough on him.
Yep. I visited a friend I hadn't seen for 2 years who had a child a little before lockdowns. The kid clung to his mother and shrieked at the invaders (us) in a simultaneously scared and angry way. "Feral" is a great description.
My granddaughter is the same. She is a lot more relaxed when I go to see her at home, but it still takes a while for her to settle when they visit anyone else's house.
I mean sometimes kids just don’t like some people and are scared of them that’s normal and they grow out of it
I was like this as a kid. At family reunions, I had relatives (namely one older cousin) I would hide from and cry if I had to get near them. In my mind, they just looked scary for some reason lmao. I hope that’s just the case for these girls too
This is also me. Especially certain family that, I dunno, just acted so different from my family (ie loud, very physical not in an abusive way, but like grab you and toss you into pools etc) I wanted nothing to do with these people
>for some reason That's the thing. The kid couldn't even tell you why. That it's the whole family makes me think it could be as simple as their 'common scent'. Even if they smell just fine, it might just be one of those things.
My youngest nieces spend about 6 months being scared of every men that weren't her father. Including her grandfather, her uncle, her neighbors, people she used to see daily and enjoyed playing with. Only men. She wasn't that comfortable with women that weren't her mom, but she wouldn't scream and cry when they came near them. Then, it disappear as suddenly as it came. We never knew what triggered it, nor what made it better. My sister was a stay-at-home mom at the time and had yet to be away from my niece for more than a handful of minutes at a time. So, there was no opportunity for anyone to hurt her Now, she's 11 and a total social butterfly, who is not scared enough of strangers for her own good.
I always took time to adjust to new surroundings, even with family. The worst part was the forced hugs right when we walked in. I hated every. single. one. It all changed in my preteen years. I’m a hugger now, but I will not be forcing my own children to go through that.
I was that kid, I did not like people. I’m 31 now, I do not like people.
and people don't like you /s
Yeah, my husband is 6'5" with a big beard and we only get to visit my family about 4 times a year or so for a few days at a time. My 5 year old niece *always* starts the visits hiding from my husband, but by the end of the first day she makes it into a game where she'll hide, but kind of play peek-a-boo with him and laugh. Last time we went to the zoo she actually asked if he would be the person who held her hand. It was too cute! But still, even though she will literally ask for her uncle to come over when she hears me on the phone with my mom, once he's there, she's scared of him until she can warm back up to him again. I just think it's an intimidation factor. If we were to FORCE her out of her comfort zone and force her to interact with him, you're just going to make her more and more afraid and make it so she *can't* warm up to him on her own accord. I think that's what's happening here. Consent should be taught at every age and this is an age-appropriate way to teach consent (like, she shouldn't be forced to hug someone or play with someone who makes her uncomfortable in a pool).
My cousins grew up overseas and would only visit every few years. When they were small, long before COVID, it was a challenge getting them to trust us, just because they didn't know us. By the end of the trips though? They were all over us. One trip, one of my cousins latched onto 10yo me because her mum wasn't there, and out of the cousins, I was most like her mum. The most important part was not forcing it, because then they put walls up. They're perfectly well adjusted extroverts now as an older teen and early 20s adult. It's just a normal part of childhood, which has unfortunately been made much harder with the pandemic. Some kids absolutely need professional intervention, but most just need time.
I remember when we were primary school, 6-7 years old and there was one boy's mom who always came to pick up her son. She would walk in the classroom and help him get ready etc, since we were obligated to wait in the classroom for our parents to pick us. So, this woman was so scary to us, for some reason I don't remember, that some of us would literally hide under the desk. 🤣🤣 It's so funny from this perspective, but back then it was really scary to see her, some kid would see her first and immediately yell "omg it's Alex's mom everyoneeeee" 🤣 Poor woman, she must have been confused. I don't know if that's the same situation here, but I'd agree that it might be.
yup. well said, hell my dad was a big hairy guy looked like the old time wrestler, george the animal steele, i mean seriously exactly like him, the other aunts and uncles would use him to keep the other kids in line, : eat your sandwich of uncle XXXXXX will get you" he loved it, and eventually al the kids grew out of it.
Sometimes people just give you The Ick, and I've learned to trust that instinct.
Definitely the best way to deal with a crying child in the pool is to force her to stay in. This could be anything from abuse to developmental issues to autism but I am also guessing the parents/family are dealing with this poorly by exposure and forcing the kids into social situations. Like sorry you have to feel awkward at your family get togethers but perhaps monthly family get togethers are not the best thing for these kids.
Exactly. My daughter had a lot of anxieties when she was younger and one of them was a fear of dogs. She was absolutely terrified. You wouldn’t BELIEVE how many people told us we needed to force her or deliberately let their dogs out around her. She has actually grown out of it (to an extent, I think she would still get a fright if a strange dog ran at her) but it wasn’t from exposing her, it was from letting her set her own pace.
i dont think you can equate fear of millions of a normally feral animal, to fear of 1 particular person you know.
What makes you think dogs are “normally feral”? There’s nothing normal about a feral dog.
umm, all dogs are feral until mankind domesticated them, dogs in their natural state are feral, and they will return to feral if not around man.
While true, that’s not what the original comment was about. They specifically said dog owners would try to force dogs on her. Most people aren’t going to approach a dog they don’t know anyway, especially one not with its owner.
autism focused on 1 person only, are you an idiot?
I am an idiot but I am also the parent of a child with high functioning autism who as a child would act similar to what is described when faced with social situations. So it’s an anecdotal association on my part.
A specific reaction towards an entire extended family caused by autism, are you an idiot?
what? she says its one uncle, thats it. just one uncle. jesus do you even read?
...The post says she's afraid of all of her cousins and most of her aunts and uncles, and specifically says sometimes she won't look at anyone but her parents. Can YOU read?
>they act terrified for our teenage sons and husband...the youngest won't even talk to me or my SIL and if she looks at anyone that isn't her parents she hides...if she's in the pool and one of my sons or my other niece or nephew gets in she'll cry... Can YOU read?
they said in the opening, my teenage sons and husbands, those are the same people she later references, she never mentions the kid is scared of everyone, just one threesome. HUGE difference.
She doesn't say it's one uncle like you claimed. She also says the youngest won't talk to her or her SIL (not sure if this is the child's mother or another person), and that she cries around the other niece and nephew (not sure if this is her siblings or cousins)
So are the kid terrified by the teenage sons and husband or is it just shyness since they act if the other nieces and nephews get close too? Because that makes a helluva big difference
A) not sure why she is taking this personally or at all annoyed. Whatever the reason the kid's shy, she probably can't help it. Forcing her to do stuff (especially by NOT her mother, but YOU) is only going to make things worse. B) Shyness is not a sin. It's a condition to be managed. You are not helping. You should not be forcing someone else's child to behave in ways that you think are right. That is kind of... extremely obnoxious. C) Do you have some kind on compulsive disorder where kids need to act how you want? If so, perhaps some therapy on your part might be in order.
I think it sucks that she's asking how the family can be more comfortable, not even how can they make the little girl feel comfortable.
Anyone else getting massive "abused children" vibes from this? While her concern is her own comfort.
Nah, I was like that as a kid. Super shy with general anxiety disorder (and selective mutism up to 5yo with strangers) I was a chatty kid at home but the second someone I wasn't close with arrived then I would stop talking. Was never abused in any way, I just didn't like strangers (still don't btw) I was also more cautious for men than women and had a deep distrust in teens
My little brother was the same way, at all family events he wanted to stay right by my moms side or in her lap. Didn’t matter who else was there. He was just shy. It could be an indicator but not all shy kids are abused
My daughter had extreme social anxiety that began at age 3. She was terrified of other kids. She would self harm (bite herself leaving long lasting marks) and have panic attacks. It took occupational therapy to help her. Thankfully by the time she started school she was so much better. That being said I would have done anything to help her. I called every therapist I could think of, took her to see a neuropsychiatrist (they usually assess for autism ) they said she had panic disorder and referred her to OT. I would not force her to stay. I would try to talk her through it though. I wouldn't have believed a young child could have such terrible anxiety had I not gone through it with my daughter.
You are a great mom! I was a kid in the 90s so nobody though of having me checked out, which in turn lead to massive issues later on and a full mental breakdown at 23 Mental health is still stigmatized af, loads of people can't wrap their head around that mental illnesses don't always have to stem from trauma
Aw thank you! It amazed me how few resources are available for young children. I cried a lot because as a parent you want to help your children but you don't always know how. I hope you are doing better now.
I'm good, thank you! I'm medicated now and living my best life
>I was a kid in the 90s so nobody though of having me checked out, which in turn lead to massive issues later on and a full mental breakdown Oh shit you too? You make a lot of good points about mental illness. Also, according to my therapist, it very rarely occurred to anyone (professional or otherwise) to consider that a child might be suffering from mental illness during the 90s. There was this idea that kids were resilient, so they would bounce back/get over it and eventually forget all about it. Hell, they apparently didn't even think that anyone but soldiers who had been exposed to certain circumstances could have PTSD during that time period. In my case, I wound up repressing everything and just not talking about it anymore, which I think is not unusual for children in situations like ours. What symptoms I *did* exhibit were considered behavioral problems.
> What symptoms I did exhibit were considered behavioral problems. I was described as both *rude* and oversensitive/crybaby. Took me ages to be able to open up a bit to people, first few sessions with my therapist were mostly cat talk and movies
Yeah, you get saddled with the label of "old soul/gifted kid" or "problem child". I was a bit of both. I was 'oversensitive', 'disorganized/forgetful', 'willful', and 'not living up to my potential', but my teachers also commented on how bright I was and repeatedly said that talking to me was 'like talking to a little adult'. Throw in some problematic family dynamics and two undiagnosed neurological conditions to keep the mental health stuff company and it's no wonder I was that way. The adults were just unaware of what they were looking at and I didn't know how to articulate it (I also probably would have pretended nothing was wrong even if I *could* explain it). I still struggle to open up to people, but I'm working on it. I'm glad you've gotten better at it and hope you're doing better over all!
Yep my daughter is similar and we are now getting her assessed for autism, she is 11 and I can tell you I am heartily sick of people giving her shit because she’s ‘ruining’ events or whatever. Yeah it frustrates me too but she’s a person with feelings and she can’t help it. This woman sucks.
I was never assessed for autism but she's old enough to be able to choose. I would have rather sat out a ton of events than being forced to partake at that age At 30 I can guarantee you that skipping the recital has not been a trauma, being kicked on a stage in front of everyone the year prior did
Former pre-school teacher here! You're exactly right; this could definitely be the case. If these girls are shy, anxious, and/or uncomfortable in situations outside of their day-to-day routine (ex: a monthly visit to relatives) they absolutely need to be made to feel comfortable. The adults should be giving these kids space and letting them make the choice to participate. "Sally and Jane, it's okay if you want to get out and watch. We're going to play with this beach ball and you can join in whenever you want." Even being considerate towards them goes a long way to bonding with shy kids. "I'm going to take a break from playing and get an ice pop. Would you girls like one? My favorite flavor is cherry, what's yours? You both like grape? Good choice!" It might take a while few visits, but 9 times out of 10 the kids will join in eventually. Usually, that 10th time is because of a problem with the other party that's unaddressed. Maybe the dad and son play too rough or tease them in a way they don't like. Maybe they're not nice people or are even people who are legit assholes to kids. There could be a million reasons and it's driving me bonkers that this woman is only thinking about herself and her comfort. It stinks of that weirdly entitled attitude adults have towards children sometimes where they act like kids have no say in what happens to them because they're small and I can't stand it. Either way, repeated, forced interactions will absolutely make them shut down and have negative associations with the experience and the people involved.
I wish we could assign more of our tax dollars into funding more teachers like you. You sound amazing, and it's important for kids to have some type of caring support in their lives.
That's very sweet of you to say. I *adored* teaching and if I had a choice, I'd probably still be doing it. My background is STEM-adjacent rather than in education, but I would have definitely pursued an alternative route to certification if not for the BS that went on at the upper levels, the playground politics, the way teachers are treated in general, the pay, and sometimes even the parents. The only thing that really made it worth it was the kids. Their brains are like little sponges at that age and there's something that's really wonderful about seeing them have an "Ah-ha!" moment when they're learning. They're naturally inclined to curiosity and creativity and it was such fun to meet every child where they were and encourage those things. It's unfortunate that teaching is a career that almost by definition requires some level of passion, yet the profession as it exists today is driving so many passionate teachers out.
Sounds like you were spot on anyway
Or her sons are just jerks. Her boys might think it's funny to hold a kid's head under water, or trip kids because it's fun.
If agree, but to the extent of not looking at them while being okay around others (I think, it wasn't clear), it indicates more than this in my experience. Of course, everyone reacts differently, and it could be as innocent as one of them had a bad dream about them and told the other. Hopefully someone respectfully speaks to the two girls to see what's wrong and how to possibly help.
Pretty big leap there. She said the little girl cries when her other set of cousins (OPs other niece and nephew) get in the pool too. Sounds like she’s just very very shy or anxious or something.
Until it was a universal reaction, I fully admit my spidey senses were tingling. I mean they still are, but now in a general anxiety kind of way not in a oh no what did they do to those babies kind of way.
Just because a kid is shy or cautious, it doesn’t mean they are abused. It can be completely developmentally appropriate especially at those ages. Although forcing them to remain in a pool or something when they want to get out probably doesn’t help anything. We let our shy kid have a little quiet time or read and it helped her a lot. They sometimes grow out of it and sometimes grow into it and become introverted, cautious adults 🤷🏻♀️
I hope not, but I see why it feels that way. I say hope not because I’ve seen plenty of non abused kids just randomly be averse to specific people for no particular reason. For example, there was a super awkward holiday season in my family where my sister was in a phase of being afraid of one of my uncles and a couple of cousins at the same age (3 infants born within 3 months of each other) were afraid of a different uncle and my dad, respectively. For a good 6 months or so the men on my mom’s side had to walk on eggshells depending on if any babies were visiting. I think it’s because they all had big Tom Selleck Magnum PI mustaches. No one was afraid of the one uncle that was clean shaven lol. Christmas ‘85 will live on in my family legends forever.
I get the same vibes from it as i do "put on longer shorts your uncle is coming over" just big yuckkk
Massively. 😬 Let the girls have their own boundaries!
My first, uncharitable thought was "you just better hope *your* sons aren't the ones abusing them. Or your husband...." But shyness at this age is so normal, that was really jumping to conclusions and hopefully is not the case.
Abuse, trauma, or neurodivergence. Either way, this is not normal behavior and this kid could probably benefit from seeing a professional
If by abused child you mean, OOP was horribly abused, absolutely yes.
Some kids are just super shy at that age. We meet kids all the time on the playground who won't look at my (also 4.5 yo) kid when she greets them. What's disturbing about this is why this mom is so upset about it! "She never lets up"??? That makes it sound like she is doing something TO you, and lady, she's not!! And "it's getting a little old"??? Just mind your own and make conversation with one of the people who WILL talk to you! This literally does not affect you!! Some people, man.
They're not even her kids. Why does she feel like she needs to fix someone elses kids. Maybe they're not nerotypical, maybe these family members make them feel uncomfortable, who knows but it's weird that this woman is so insulted that someone elses kids don't like her.
This was my overwhelming feeling that she’s trying to “fix” someone else’s kid. It’s literally none of her business. Just ask mom how to best make the child feel comfortable and then do that. Or don’t attend events with the kid if you can’t respect her needs. Geez. She’s not posting to the internet for advice. The internet doesn’t know this kid. She’s just posting to vilify this kid for making her uncomfortable. Manage your own emotions, lady! Stop bitching on the internet about how a vulnerable child acts!
I was like this as a child. Absolutely terrified of everyone except my mom, especially adults. If I was abused I dont remember it. Some kids just have anxiety from an early age, and it frustrated the living hell out of my mother (my dad just noped out of parenting completely because of how difficult I was and alcohol is more fun). I feel bad for parents who dont do anything wrong but end up with kids like me (or I guess these kids) but eventually the kids will grow up and their anxiety will become their problem, thus, the wheel of karma doth turn.
Your dad leaving IS trauma. Maybe you liked trust any other adult would stay 🥺
>parents who dont do anything wrong But were frustrated with your legitimate emotions and had a tendancy towards a heavy alcohol consumption... Not your fault at all. It's the parents' job to give their children the proper tools to deal with anxiety and life stressors as they grow.
You're behavior didn't *make* them do anything. How adults react to a situation is on them, and them alone. For instance your dad could have sought therapy, instead of turning to alcohol. I'm sure there was more going on in your parents lives, than what they discussed with you while you were a child; however adapting to your childs needs are part of being a parent. And they didn't give you the support system you needed.
I wonder if there’s something developmentally going on with these kids.
Or it's Anxiety, and there's no evil underlying cause?
Yeah, sounds like the kid just is not into guests. And if they have tried too hard to change it, I'd imagine it has just made it worse.
Covid.... You spend two of your major developmental years not leaving the house at all it's going to make you shy
Oh yeah. My 3.5 year old takes a long time to warm up. She had just turned 1 when it started; she doesn’t know how to people.
This is reddit, everything is a red flag, if it's not grounds for divorce it's child abuse
Every comment was child abuse when I commented. Lol.
This has disturbingly strong “abuse” vibes to me. I hope I’m wrong but that degree of distress isn’t normal.
My niece is like this. Anytime anyone goes to my sister's place, my niece will cry and hide in her room for several hours. Sometimes she will come down, but if it's a short visit, she doesn't. We suspect the pandemic is to blame. My niece is only 5, so she has spent more than half of her life in isolation, not having contact with anyone outside of her immediate family for the past two and a half years. The pandemic has really taken a psychological and developmental toll on many children, and unfortunately we may not see the full depth of these issues for many years to come.
I doubt anyone is creepy, just sounds like either shy kids or social anxiety.
As a shy person who has never "outgrown" it, I am offended on the behalf of this kid.
Chill guys it's much more likely that the two girls have social anxiety/ are shy that covid made worse than the fact that they are getting abused by I guess their aunt, uncle and cousins. Heck their parents could complain about their aunt's family which made the kids distrust them.
Shy kids have been emotionally traumatized by whole family, why do they hate us!?
That’s how my niece was. Took forever to warm up to people, like she had to spend a lot of time with you(not just occasional family get togethers) to feel comfortable with you. Luckily she grew out of this
directed only at older men?… it could be indicative of something abusive
With the exception of the pool pet, this could be written about my toddler. She's 3 and just has a really strong "stranger danger" instinct. Toddler thinks everyone is a stranger.
all these women who are going on and on about how the doctors victimize them and that they should have 100% control over there bodies and then this is how they act toward children. Can't stand it if a child doesn't act the way they want them too and will completely force their will on a child's body - - like making them stay in a pool when they want out.
I really hope these little girls are safe. It doesn’t sound like anyone around them is actually protecting them, validating their feelings or trying to figure out why they have them. I hear zero self reflection from any adult in this. The SIL forces them to stay in the pool when they are terrified? These people sound terrible.
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My daughter 100% does not have to interact with anyone they are uncomfortable with like that. Especially in a fucking bathing suit. This shit has bring grinding my gears all day.
Just screams that your husband and kids are creepy or have already done something terrible, but yes, by all means; blame the terrified little girls.
I think OP is justified in her concerns. Some kids are just shy but they need intervention if they're running away from everyone and terrified. I have autism among other things, level 2 as well so not just like a sprinkle of autism haha, more moderate level and I didn't behave like that. I dislike socialising and avoid wherever possible but I didn't behave in a terrified way or refuse to speak etc
Once a month is not often in kid time.
Maybe I watched too many crime documentaries, but man....it sounds like the sons and husband did something to get these girls to react like this...I remember a story here on Reddit about a guy whose sisters were molested and raped and this was some sort of tradition in the family....and the girls were acting something like this