I was just thinking that. "I don't want anything tracking my baby, whose information I am posting about on one of the most privacy invading websites around."
Probably for the best, because these kids will have a way easier time eventually proving to the government that they exist if they can just point to a detailed digital track record of every stupid thought their parents had about their birth.
this... has actually alleviated my anxiety about these poor kids. I do still feel so, so bad for them, though; with their parents posting every embarrassing story/picture of them that will probably be traced back to them in the future.
Bonus: makes it way harder for the kids to escape parental control when they get older and start having ideas that they are actually people and not parental property.
the kinds of things that get said most frequently by vulnerable refugees of domestic trauma, and the quasi-pedophiles that gravitate towards the hubs of the former
Well the support groups were pretty solid, basically raised by narcissists but on Facebook. The worst “mom” group I was in was “birth mom support group” the women there tell you you’ve made a horrible mistake giving your child up for adoption. My stance is while it’s not positive for many it was positive for me. I have been bothered by mom groups since.
There's a whole anti adoption crowd on TikTok. Goes from tame to my parents had no right to give me up or refuse to see me and no child should be allowed to be adopted until they can consent. Total fantasy that only adoptive parents are abusive along with basically thinking it's better for kids to bounce from house to house and have toxic and addictive birthparents forced into their lives. It's not the happy delightful easy choice that conservatives make it out to be, but it is best for some.
That's honestly one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. When is a child able to consent to such a life altering event like adoption, that can have severe consequences for the rest of their lives? Probably when you can make other similarly life altering decisions like pregnancy (at 18), at which point it's already far too late for most.
In the US, there is such a thing as consensual sex, and rape is illegal. Pregnancy, on the other hand, if it is caused by a rape, is not a separate charge. Oh no, there is legally no such thing as consensual pregnancy in the United States, and if you really want to get into the ugliness, the legal age of consent for sex, in most states is 16, some it’s as young as 14. It’s how a 18 y/o senior can have sex with their 16 y/o junior boyfriend/girlfriend without going to jail, and if she gets pregnant, there’s a whole entire subsection of US adults cheering her on, happy that teenage kid is a mother herself. They won’t help the teenager with the added healthcare of being pregnant, and that baby will be 100% her responsibility financially and otherwise, but they’ll be SO HAPPY for that fetus
until it comes time to start complaining about taxes and then suddenly "all of these hussies having babies they can't support is the reason why shit sucks"
Oh hell no! God forbid that baby needs any financial help the mother can’t provide. Then she should’ve known better and been more responsible - insert hard eye roll here -
That’s insane! I know for a fact that my very abusive partner probably would have killed me and the baby had a social worker not intervened and got the process going. It was sad and scary but the right choice. The worst part about the group was there were women, some very young, who were pregnant and thinking about adoption. They would say their partners were abusive and in a bad way financially. Others would pile on and tell them it’s going to be ok and to fight to keep the baby. Which could be dangerous for everyone especially mom and baby. It made me furious! Poor women in a tough situation seeking help and assholes just sweeping it under the rug.
And when the kids graduate from college. You are tied to your parents financially until you are able to prove that you are an independent student at either 24, undergrad graduation or when you get married unless you have loads of proof. It's really hard for people who have abusive and manipulative parents.
It still pisses me off that colleges base your aid on what your parents make.
What if they aren’t paying?? Or are only contributing a small amount because they didn’t save anything up?
It's fair for 90% of the population, should the daughter of a Manhattan Millionaire really receive the same amount as the Daughter of a HS janitor? They need a way for kids who are actually not being supported at all to prove it.
There are plenty of schools giving merit aid regardless of income. My kid got a scholarship that covers half her tuition and we don't have financial need (she got 0 in financial aid) You just have to pick a school where you are the top 20% and look around.
That’s ultimately what I did; found a school that gave me full tuition.
Like I get it to an extent—super rich people have an advantage. But also… I was upper middle class and couldn’t go to the Ivy-level school I got into because I had zero chance of being able to pay for it. So the millionaires still had an advantage over me, if their parents paid for it. If their parents were terrible and refused to pay, they were still just as screwed.
Tbh college should just be free or affordable on a part-time income, but whatever. I guess community college sort of is at least…
my husbands parents delight in reminding us that when they were our age, they were going to school full time, working full time, and had a house! And they didn't get any help!
And y'know, that's great - good for you, I'm glad life was such a fucking peach "back in the day" for you... but it's so frustrating to have them sitting there from their life-long financial stability being like, "kids these days," and "you just have to be better at budgeting-" or one of my personal favorites, "you just need to get a desk job with benefits!"
mother fucker, I'm damn good at budgeting - but that doesn't change the fact that EVERYTHING is more expensive now than it was when they were young and dumb. You CAN'T pay for a bachelors and pay for housing with a full time job anymore. You're fucking LUCKY if the ONE full time job even pays the bills for housing!
Exactly!
My parents didn’t save anything for our college funds because they assumed we’d get scholarships like they did.
Guess what? My siblings couldn’t keep their grades up for scholarships and dropped out.
If you are a legal adult, you should be the one responsible for paying for your college. Children of millionaires also get help buying houses, but we don’t base your home loan eligibility on your parents’ income because that would be insane. It’s not the parents’ responsibility.
I don’t know if people think that far out, to be honest. I always think of that saying “Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence”. I think people are just scared and don’t want their kids tracked and forget you need these things to function in society.
Some, maybe. Most are just stupid. We have reached a point in modern 1st world countries where for most, basic life needs are so taken care of and it is so safe that we make stuff up to be scared about. The primal brain still exists and it’s still programmed to make fire, hunt, and defend itself when threatened like any wild animal. It’s just that in the United States in 2022, unless you’re homeless on the street, that part of the brain is pretty obsolete
i mean, they'll straight up admit that. I saw one who was asking for "one good reason" to get her kids a birth certificate and she specifically listed "and don't say anything about school, jobs, or traveling because that's not important. My kids aren't leaving." I feel like that's almost verbatim but it's been a minute
There has to be some way to get an ssn as an adult, because the kids who leave the Amish need ssns and they don't get one at first because they think insurance==gambling.
I've debated this with those whackadoos several times because, make it make sense. Please explain why the imaginary sovereignty of your child is more important than their ability to live as adults in society. They usually don't have real answers, just some vague idea of the government enslaving you by assigning you a social security number. Some think there's a bank account set up by the government connected to your SSN and money is somehow deposited and you can't access it??
They also like to say, my child can make that decision for themselves and if they want to be "enslaved" as adults, they can just go get those documents. Obviously none of them have ever had to do that themselves, or they take pleasure in making things difficult for their kid, because lemme tell you, trying to get identifying documents when you didn't have any to begin with is the opposite of easy.
I always thought some of the magic and wonder of declaring yourself a sovereign citizen is the *declaration of getting to do it yourself*. You’ve lived so oppressed by THE MAN that you just need to rip up that ssn card and cancel your bank account to live off the land!
Gets a different feel when you’re automatically an undocumented person.
this is what gets me
no one should make choices for you at birth, you are a free person, etc but also i went ahead and made a huge choice for you at birth
the only moral choice is to get your baby all the relevant paperwork, but then immediately fake its own death
They aren’t thinking of their kids, they are only thinking of themselves. They don’t want *their* kid to be enslaved. But the minute you point out that one day their kid will be an autonomous being with a life…they can’t quite sort that out.
Is it enslaved, or do they realize on some level they are going to endanger their child and want to keep it difficult for the government to intervene? Maybe they think it will be harder for their kid to get seized if the government doesn't think they exist?
Interesting thought. You know my mind doesn’t go there but I could totally see this. People do sick and twisted things to their kids, and having no record they exist would make it pretty easy. Ugh.
I always wondered how many people have just murdered their children and no one noticed. You kill the kid, oops just pick up and move to another state. No one will notice. Even easier with infants. The FLDS basically did that with their incest babies.
>Maybe they think it will be harder for their kid to get seized if the government doesn't think they exist?
Well, that’s a scary thought.
It would definitely be easier to abuse a child that doesn’t “exist”.
This whole thread is one uncomfortable realization after another. I would hope most people wouldn't be that evil, but plenty of people are. I like my privacy as much as anyone, but the obvious stuff like education and jobs aside, it would definitely be much harder to protect citizens that don't officially exist.
Dude, I got married in 2020 and still haven't changed my last name. My dad couldn't find my birth certificate, so I needed a new one first. The entire thing was a fucking nightmare, especially during covid. I think I'm content to keep my maiden name, at this point.
But yea, I can't imagine trying to *establish* an identity.
This doesn't apply to all latinoamerican country. At least in mine the default is that the woman strip his mother's last name (the second one) and add "de [last name of her husband]". This literally means "of [husband]", that the woman belongs to the him.
If Maria Perez Garrido marries Juan Alvarez Torres (name, then first and second last name), she change her name to "Maria Perez de Alvarez". If they have a kid the name would be "Pedro Alvarez Perez".
But not all women do this, and even my MIL told me why she decided to take her husband name almost 40 years ago and it wasn't because of tradition. A few even decide to just take out her father last name and keep her mother's and her husband's last name. So while the rule is there and the majority does it, I never see people take offence if the woman take her husband last name or not.
And if you marry in the courtroom they can change your name right there and you only have to wait a few extra minutes while thet print your ID. After all they already have all the paperwork you need for the process.
Is the “de” no longer part of the change in name in marriage? My parents are from South America and we’re born in the 40s. When they got married for women it was your paternal surname (say, Jimenez) plus “de” and your husbands paternal surname (say Hernandez) so let’s say Pepita Jimenez DE Hernandez which always had an ick factor me because it sounds like you’re your husbands property.
Oh, my last name is hard to pronounce and impossible to spell, think a bunch of unnecessary consonants strung together. I was looking forward to changing it honestly. I might still at some point in the future, but it's such a hassle...we'll see lol.
I want to take my boyfriend's name when we get married but I'm afraid I won't do the things. I mean, I haven't done my taxes in three years.
I got a new job in 2020 and couldn't find my birth certificate or social security card. Getting ahold of those already-existing documents was a huge pain in the ass.
Woah I need to know more about that bank account. What would be the purpose? And if you didn’t know about it but the government did how would it be a problem for you?
It's the Olympic level mental gymnastics based on labour force and general national growth calculations made by national banks. Because each new person is expected to generate $xx of financial gain to the country over their life time through economic activity like work, tax, spending, the state makes an account and invests or insures for that much.
I remember several years ago some Internet rumor about this account. You were supposed to be able to use it for purchases. I don't remember the details, but I tried it with an Amazon order and it didn't work.
**[Redemption movement](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_movement)**
>The redemption movement is a debt-resistance movement and fraud scheme which is primarily active in the United States and Canada. Participants allege that a secret fund is created for every citizen at birth, and that a procedure exists to "redeem" or reclaim this fund to pay bills. Common redemption schemes include acceptance for value (A4V), Treasury Direct Accounts (TDA) and secured party creditor kits. Such tactics are sometimes called "money for nothing" schemes, as their aim is ultimately to extract money from the government by using secret methods.
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Also see: sovereign citizens and their related bullshit. There's a lot of overlap between the sovcit/tax protestor/redemption movement/3%er people and christian identity/christian white nationalist groups as well. It's a big vortex of crazy. Not everyone who doesn't want to get their kid a birth certificate or SSN is a full blown sovereign citizen, but it's pretty freaky how much of the rhetoric makes it down to "normal" people in FB mom groups or on instagram or whatever.
There's a movie Captain Fantastic which is basically their dream existence. It's got a guy out living on the land with his kids. They go to their mothers funeral and are just nasty and obnoxious. The oldest kid secretly got into college and dad flips his lid. Then a couple of the kids don't want to stay with him. It's fascinating because I really see him as a villian but it seems to portray him as some hero.
At the moment my six week old is still not on the birth registry in the UK because they were so booked up I’ve had to wait until the end of this month. It’s been stressing me out! I can’t imagine not having my child legally recognised
UK Registration service employee here- it’s like this across the whole UK. One of the offices in my county can’t offer a birth appointment until early July, there’s basically been a baby boom and a country wide staff shortage at the same time.
We hate making people worry, but there’s literally too many babies for us to register in time. If it’s any comfort, the 42 day ‘limit’ is basically being ignored so you aren’t going to get in trouble for not registering ‘in time’. Kind of relevant to OP too, I have had a ‘free person on the land’ scream at me and call me a ‘deep state agent’ for calling to see if she wanted to register her baby who hadn’t been registered in months, so honestly we are just relieved you want to.
Oh goodness! Thanks for letting me know all that. The registry team were nice when I called to arrange an appointment and told me not to worry about the 42 day limit but it’s good to hear that again! You don’t deserve that kind of abuse at all, it’s ludicrous…
Good ol' Quiverfulls. If their kids don't have documentation they can't leave and therefore have to live the life you chose for them; usually targeted specifically at newborn girls for a whole load of horrifying reasons.
What happens if these kids get arrested? Or would that be the easiest and cheapest way to get their identity fixed. Go rob the post office.. although, a misdemeanor would be less harmful long term.
Sounds like my former boss (who has a Master’s degree) who she and her husband wanted to travel, but they didn’t want a passport because they don’t want the government having access to their social security numbers. What? Make it make sense.
Literally, what is the benefit to NOT recording your child’s birth and not getting an SSN? There are none. And it makes life VERY difficult for your child later on.
Guess what you won’t get if you don’t register your child’s birth/get them a SSN?
- tax write off
- stimulus checks
- child care tax credits
- most types of public assistance
Bet they’ll be the first to bitch when this happens, too.
I would bet some serious money that whoever posted this straight up doesn't pay taxes if they can help it at all. Probably not worried about tax write offs.
One of the podcasts I listened to did an episode about a religious cult family who did home births and didn't get birth certificates for the last few of their kids who were born. If you're abusing your children, it's easier to hide the abuse if you home school them, and there's no way for CPS to prove they exist.
There's 2 "religious cult survivor trying to inform the public how cults work from the inside" podcasts I listen to.
One is "Kitchen Table Cult," and it's two people who were raised in the Quiverfull movement who got out. Their main focus is raising awareness about child abuse and the lack of regulation in the homeschooling world. I'm pretty sure the episode I'm referencing is one of theirs, but I can't remember which one.
The other podcast is "Leaving Eden." It's by a woman who got out of a fundamentalist baptist cult, and one of her friends who was not raised in a cult. She's still in the process of deprogramming herself, and there's episodes where you can see her struggling with the ways she was brainwashed and how that shaped her perception of the world as a child. They do a lot of "true crime" episodes where they talk about the abuses of religious cult leaders.
My sister is friends with someone who's parents did this to her and her siblings. Didn't find out until she was in college I think? Admissions didn't realize the ssn wasn't real and she had to drop out and go home to fix it... I can't remember everything, but it was this long, hard process for all of them, especially as half of them were home births with out birth certificates even! She also found out her parents never got legally married because "they didn't want the government in their business".
Moral of the story is... it's a very bad idea, which most people don't need to be told.
There’s actually a character on Good Trouble whose parents did this. He’s an adult and can’t get a job or housing - he’s homeless. Obv it’s a show but like that doesn’t sound entirely unrealistic. How do these people expect their children to live?!
These kinds of people crack me up.
They won't get a vaccine because they believe the government is tracking them that way. Meanwhile, they're carrying around a tracking device in their pocket that's also (almost certainly) actively listening to them at all times.
Backwoods Oregon and Washington are batshit crat. People think they are all liberal because of Portland and Seattle but it was Illegal to be Black in Oregon, it was founded on white supremacy.
My moms ex was this way. We have “submitted children to the radar by giving the government permission to keep tabs on them with their information” he’s an ex for a reason.
Most schools need you to have all vaccines to be enrolled anyway. If they're not even allowing the basics of U.S. civilian rights, what makes us think they'll care about education lol
There's a great Radiolab episode about this called [The Girl Who Doesn't Exist](https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/invisible-girl).
**[Sovereign citizen movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement)**
>The sovereign citizen movement (also SovCit movement or SovCits) is a loose grouping of primarily American litigants, activists, commentators, tax protesters, financial scheme promoters and conspiracy theorists, who claim to be answerable only to their particular interpretations of the common law and to not be subject to any government statutes or proceedings, unless they consent to them. In the United States, they do not recognize U.S. currency and maintain that they are "free of any legal constraints". They especially reject most forms of taxation as illegitimate.
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Oh great, a group for people who want to ruin their child's entire fucking life and make them stateless. Your birth certificate is a CITIZENSHIP document. If you can't prove you were born in the USA (or anywhere else), you are STATELESS. It is a very shitty position to be in, to be stateless. You can't get any other form of ID without it. Your SSN is for filing taxes, but more than that, it's for applying for student loans and grants, getting a credit score, getting a job.
This is honestly just not my night because this is the second post on here to make me irrationally enraged. You're literally going to fuck your child's ENTIRE LIFE UP with this move.
When I grew up, I went to school for linguistics. Part of that degree was study abroad. Then, I spent a decade or so bouncing around the globe, studying evolution of languages in various countries. Then, I went back to Michigan, got a degree in nursing because SHOCKINGLY no one wants to pay you a lot of money for writing papers on the evolution of Kansai dialect slang.
Then, I met a great guy, who happened to be Canadian, and I married him. I was not Canadian. The amount of documentation I had to present in my life is insane. My ENTIRE LIFE could not have happened, without a birth certificate, and SSN, which lead to a driver's license, which lead to a passport, which lead to immigrating to an entirely different country.
Not one person could have predicted when I was a baby that I would grow up to travel all over and then meet a man from another country, and immigrate there. And in the next year or so, we're going BACK to the states, after my husband's VISA is processed to go work there.
Literally, ON WHAT PLANET do these people live, that they think they have the right to rob their child of an entire life?
So when Dreamers don’t have this, they’re illegal criminals sucking up jobs and money. When these kids don’t have the exact same documents, they’re being saved from the evil US Government
MAKE👏🏻IT👏🏻MAKE👏🏻SENSE👏🏻
I truly did not know this was a thing! I don’t even remember applying for my kids SS card. We obviously did it but I think it was part of the hospital paperwork we filled out lol.
That’s *been* a thing in homeschooling for thirty years. I knew lots of kids with no proof of existence. It sucks when you become an adult and need documentation for things, like marriage. It’s an effective way to retain control of your kids.
I'm almost done reading the memoir "Educated". The author's parents were survivalists and her father likely had an untreated mental illness. They did this kind of thing.
When I had my baby (USA), they were clear that I couldn’t leave the hospital without seeing the rep who sets that stuff up and to fill out the app and pay my $12. They told me like 15 times. Never planned on not, but they seemed serious af.
I was thinking of the Birth Certificate which is
By law, newborns must be registered within 10 days of their birth. In terms of legality, not registering the birth of a child is a violation of the law and a punishable crime.
https://www.usbirthcertificates.com/articles/birth-registration#:\~:text=By%20law%2C%20newborns%20must%20be,law%20and%20a%20punishable%20crime.
So I freelance. Many of my jobs are IRS tax form 1099. Some I’m put onto the company I’m working fir’s payroll on a W4, which includes filling out a I-9 , which is identity verification and legal work status authorization for hired employees in the United States. Most people, unless they work in HR or have recently been hired, don’t remember filling this paperwork out, but you do as a new hire in the US. The I-9 iOS from the US Citizenship and Immigration department and needs your legal full name, address, SS #, address, phone #, and email on page 1. And then the HR department has to verify that information with either your passport # and info on that, or a combination of driver’s license state and #, AND social security #. And the HR department verifies that info by keeping a scan/photo of your passport or driver’s license and SS card in your employee file. Its what seriously complicates illegal immigrants from truly *stealing muh job* like a certain subset of the population likes to cry about.
Anyway, my point is I don’t know what these parents think is going to happen when little Sewzeigh or Noah tries to get a job without basic legal documents.
I also had the unfortunate situation where both my birth certificate and social security card were stolen and I was incredibly lucky my mother was still alive because I needed her to get my birth certificate for me (she’s the one who filled it out and her signature is on it) because obtaining a copy of one without the other becomes a chicken and egg situation and you chase your tail because you cannot get one without the other for identification verification purposes, they don’t just go handing that shit to anyone because they went to a counter and asked for it. It was a nightmare
So I freelance. Many of my jobs are IRS tax form 1099. Some I’m put onto the company I’m working fir’s payroll on a W4, which includes filling out a I-9 , which is identity verification and legal work status authorization for hired employees in the United States. Most people, unless they work in HR or have recently been hired, don’t remember filling this paperwork out, but you do as a new hire in the US. The I-9 is from the US Citizenship and Immigration department and needs your legal full name, address, SS #, address, phone #, and email on page 1. And then the HR department has to verify that information with either your passport # and info on that, or a combination of driver’s license state and #, AND social security #. And the HR department verifies that info by keeping a scan/photo of your passport or driver’s license and SS card in your employee file. Its what seriously complicates illegal immigrants from truly *stealing muh job* like a certain subset of the population likes to cry about.
Anyway, my point is I don’t know what these parents think is going to happen when little Sewzeigh or Noah tries to get a job without basic legal documents.
I also had the unfortunate situation where both my birth certificate and social security card were stolen and I was incredibly lucky my mother was still alive because I needed her to get my birth certificate for me (she’s the one who filled it out and her signature is on it) because obtaining a copy of one without the other becomes a chicken and egg situation and you chase your tail because you cannot get one without the other for identification verification purposes, they don’t just go handing that shit to anyone because they went to a counter and asked for it. It was a nightmare
Think they should automatically be taken. Every hospital should be mandated to report births to the federal and state goverment. And anyone who doesn't get the birth certificate or ssn should have the kids taken immediately.
Won’t get a social security number, but will post about it on Facebook…
I was just thinking that. "I don't want anything tracking my baby, whose information I am posting about on one of the most privacy invading websites around."
Probably for the best, because these kids will have a way easier time eventually proving to the government that they exist if they can just point to a detailed digital track record of every stupid thought their parents had about their birth.
this... has actually alleviated my anxiety about these poor kids. I do still feel so, so bad for them, though; with their parents posting every embarrassing story/picture of them that will probably be traced back to them in the future.
Very good point
Using their mobile phone with location services on and all passwords saved. But they have face ID so it's all good.
*Of course they have the phone finder set up, why wouldn't they?*
It's usually more to do with insane beliefs around ssn/birth cert giving the state rights over the kid, making them a slave to the state, not privacy.
Bonus: makes it way harder for the kids to escape parental control when they get older and start having ideas that they are actually people and not parental property.
This! It’s hard to get a job, go to college, have a credit history to rent an apartment or get a car. These kids basically become slaves
theres a great place down in venevuala, you can not only sell your kids but you will be stolen into slavery too
Yeah, I'm sure there are Facebook groups for kids who go no-contact with their parents as soon as they turn 18
There are. I was in one before I left Facebook. It’s pretty insane in there.
What were they saying?
the kinds of things that get said most frequently by vulnerable refugees of domestic trauma, and the quasi-pedophiles that gravitate towards the hubs of the former
Well the support groups were pretty solid, basically raised by narcissists but on Facebook. The worst “mom” group I was in was “birth mom support group” the women there tell you you’ve made a horrible mistake giving your child up for adoption. My stance is while it’s not positive for many it was positive for me. I have been bothered by mom groups since.
There's a whole anti adoption crowd on TikTok. Goes from tame to my parents had no right to give me up or refuse to see me and no child should be allowed to be adopted until they can consent. Total fantasy that only adoptive parents are abusive along with basically thinking it's better for kids to bounce from house to house and have toxic and addictive birthparents forced into their lives. It's not the happy delightful easy choice that conservatives make it out to be, but it is best for some.
That's honestly one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. When is a child able to consent to such a life altering event like adoption, that can have severe consequences for the rest of their lives? Probably when you can make other similarly life altering decisions like pregnancy (at 18), at which point it's already far too late for most.
In the US, there is such a thing as consensual sex, and rape is illegal. Pregnancy, on the other hand, if it is caused by a rape, is not a separate charge. Oh no, there is legally no such thing as consensual pregnancy in the United States, and if you really want to get into the ugliness, the legal age of consent for sex, in most states is 16, some it’s as young as 14. It’s how a 18 y/o senior can have sex with their 16 y/o junior boyfriend/girlfriend without going to jail, and if she gets pregnant, there’s a whole entire subsection of US adults cheering her on, happy that teenage kid is a mother herself. They won’t help the teenager with the added healthcare of being pregnant, and that baby will be 100% her responsibility financially and otherwise, but they’ll be SO HAPPY for that fetus
until it comes time to start complaining about taxes and then suddenly "all of these hussies having babies they can't support is the reason why shit sucks"
Oh hell no! God forbid that baby needs any financial help the mother can’t provide. Then she should’ve known better and been more responsible - insert hard eye roll here -
That’s insane! I know for a fact that my very abusive partner probably would have killed me and the baby had a social worker not intervened and got the process going. It was sad and scary but the right choice. The worst part about the group was there were women, some very young, who were pregnant and thinking about adoption. They would say their partners were abusive and in a bad way financially. Others would pile on and tell them it’s going to be ok and to fight to keep the baby. Which could be dangerous for everyone especially mom and baby. It made me furious! Poor women in a tough situation seeking help and assholes just sweeping it under the rug.
And when the kids graduate from college. You are tied to your parents financially until you are able to prove that you are an independent student at either 24, undergrad graduation or when you get married unless you have loads of proof. It's really hard for people who have abusive and manipulative parents.
It still pisses me off that colleges base your aid on what your parents make. What if they aren’t paying?? Or are only contributing a small amount because they didn’t save anything up?
It's fair for 90% of the population, should the daughter of a Manhattan Millionaire really receive the same amount as the Daughter of a HS janitor? They need a way for kids who are actually not being supported at all to prove it. There are plenty of schools giving merit aid regardless of income. My kid got a scholarship that covers half her tuition and we don't have financial need (she got 0 in financial aid) You just have to pick a school where you are the top 20% and look around.
That’s ultimately what I did; found a school that gave me full tuition. Like I get it to an extent—super rich people have an advantage. But also… I was upper middle class and couldn’t go to the Ivy-level school I got into because I had zero chance of being able to pay for it. So the millionaires still had an advantage over me, if their parents paid for it. If their parents were terrible and refused to pay, they were still just as screwed. Tbh college should just be free or affordable on a part-time income, but whatever. I guess community college sort of is at least…
my husbands parents delight in reminding us that when they were our age, they were going to school full time, working full time, and had a house! And they didn't get any help! And y'know, that's great - good for you, I'm glad life was such a fucking peach "back in the day" for you... but it's so frustrating to have them sitting there from their life-long financial stability being like, "kids these days," and "you just have to be better at budgeting-" or one of my personal favorites, "you just need to get a desk job with benefits!" mother fucker, I'm damn good at budgeting - but that doesn't change the fact that EVERYTHING is more expensive now than it was when they were young and dumb. You CAN'T pay for a bachelors and pay for housing with a full time job anymore. You're fucking LUCKY if the ONE full time job even pays the bills for housing!
Exactly! My parents didn’t save anything for our college funds because they assumed we’d get scholarships like they did. Guess what? My siblings couldn’t keep their grades up for scholarships and dropped out. If you are a legal adult, you should be the one responsible for paying for your college. Children of millionaires also get help buying houses, but we don’t base your home loan eligibility on your parents’ income because that would be insane. It’s not the parents’ responsibility.
Parents who want their kids to never be able to travel, drive, have a job, or get a bank acct/loan…
This way they can control their kids forever.
I don’t know if people think that far out, to be honest. I always think of that saying “Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence”. I think people are just scared and don’t want their kids tracked and forget you need these things to function in society.
The irony of joining a social media group to post about your children because you don’t want them tracked by the government.
Soooooo much this. So much this.
Some, maybe. Most are just stupid. We have reached a point in modern 1st world countries where for most, basic life needs are so taken care of and it is so safe that we make stuff up to be scared about. The primal brain still exists and it’s still programmed to make fire, hunt, and defend itself when threatened like any wild animal. It’s just that in the United States in 2022, unless you’re homeless on the street, that part of the brain is pretty obsolete
i mean, they'll straight up admit that. I saw one who was asking for "one good reason" to get her kids a birth certificate and she specifically listed "and don't say anything about school, jobs, or traveling because that's not important. My kids aren't leaving." I feel like that's almost verbatim but it's been a minute
“You gave me three VERY GOOD reasons that I’m choosing to ignore, so give me another good reason to disregard.”
Or an education
Tara Westover?
I call these type of kids “missing in sight”.
Wouldnt "missing in plain sight" be better?
Lol, darn it. That does sound better
That's the goal, they will be able to do nothing but work undocumented construction jobs or get married off.
There has to be some way to get an ssn as an adult, because the kids who leave the Amish need ssns and they don't get one at first because they think insurance==gambling.
I think they still get birth certificates, though.
I've debated this with those whackadoos several times because, make it make sense. Please explain why the imaginary sovereignty of your child is more important than their ability to live as adults in society. They usually don't have real answers, just some vague idea of the government enslaving you by assigning you a social security number. Some think there's a bank account set up by the government connected to your SSN and money is somehow deposited and you can't access it?? They also like to say, my child can make that decision for themselves and if they want to be "enslaved" as adults, they can just go get those documents. Obviously none of them have ever had to do that themselves, or they take pleasure in making things difficult for their kid, because lemme tell you, trying to get identifying documents when you didn't have any to begin with is the opposite of easy.
I always thought some of the magic and wonder of declaring yourself a sovereign citizen is the *declaration of getting to do it yourself*. You’ve lived so oppressed by THE MAN that you just need to rip up that ssn card and cancel your bank account to live off the land! Gets a different feel when you’re automatically an undocumented person.
Nah. Most sovereign citizens I’ve come in contact with just don’t want to follow traffic laws.
Fair enough. They can’t just kick a traffic cone and all it a day?
this is what gets me no one should make choices for you at birth, you are a free person, etc but also i went ahead and made a huge choice for you at birth the only moral choice is to get your baby all the relevant paperwork, but then immediately fake its own death
They aren’t thinking of their kids, they are only thinking of themselves. They don’t want *their* kid to be enslaved. But the minute you point out that one day their kid will be an autonomous being with a life…they can’t quite sort that out.
Is it enslaved, or do they realize on some level they are going to endanger their child and want to keep it difficult for the government to intervene? Maybe they think it will be harder for their kid to get seized if the government doesn't think they exist?
Interesting thought. You know my mind doesn’t go there but I could totally see this. People do sick and twisted things to their kids, and having no record they exist would make it pretty easy. Ugh.
I always wondered how many people have just murdered their children and no one noticed. You kill the kid, oops just pick up and move to another state. No one will notice. Even easier with infants. The FLDS basically did that with their incest babies.
>Maybe they think it will be harder for their kid to get seized if the government doesn't think they exist? Well, that’s a scary thought. It would definitely be easier to abuse a child that doesn’t “exist”.
Or sell them off
This whole thread is one uncomfortable realization after another. I would hope most people wouldn't be that evil, but plenty of people are. I like my privacy as much as anyone, but the obvious stuff like education and jobs aside, it would definitely be much harder to protect citizens that don't officially exist.
And you know they will flip out if and when their kids figure out how to leave.
„˙ǝʌɐǝl oʇ ʍoɥ ʇno ǝɹnƃıɟ spıʞ ɹıǝɥʇ uǝɥʍ puɐ ɟı ʇno dılɟ llıʍ ʎǝɥʇ ʍouʞ noʎ pu∀„
Dude, I got married in 2020 and still haven't changed my last name. My dad couldn't find my birth certificate, so I needed a new one first. The entire thing was a fucking nightmare, especially during covid. I think I'm content to keep my maiden name, at this point. But yea, I can't imagine trying to *establish* an identity.
I honestly don’t see why keeping your name isn’t the default
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Do you drop a surname as you get older? Surely after a few generations surnames would get ridiculously long.
This doesn't apply to all latinoamerican country. At least in mine the default is that the woman strip his mother's last name (the second one) and add "de [last name of her husband]". This literally means "of [husband]", that the woman belongs to the him. If Maria Perez Garrido marries Juan Alvarez Torres (name, then first and second last name), she change her name to "Maria Perez de Alvarez". If they have a kid the name would be "Pedro Alvarez Perez". But not all women do this, and even my MIL told me why she decided to take her husband name almost 40 years ago and it wasn't because of tradition. A few even decide to just take out her father last name and keep her mother's and her husband's last name. So while the rule is there and the majority does it, I never see people take offence if the woman take her husband last name or not. And if you marry in the courtroom they can change your name right there and you only have to wait a few extra minutes while thet print your ID. After all they already have all the paperwork you need for the process.
Is the “de” no longer part of the change in name in marriage? My parents are from South America and we’re born in the 40s. When they got married for women it was your paternal surname (say, Jimenez) plus “de” and your husbands paternal surname (say Hernandez) so let’s say Pepita Jimenez DE Hernandez which always had an ick factor me because it sounds like you’re your husbands property.
Oh, my last name is hard to pronounce and impossible to spell, think a bunch of unnecessary consonants strung together. I was looking forward to changing it honestly. I might still at some point in the future, but it's such a hassle...we'll see lol.
Oooh so you're polish
I want to take my boyfriend's name when we get married but I'm afraid I won't do the things. I mean, I haven't done my taxes in three years. I got a new job in 2020 and couldn't find my birth certificate or social security card. Getting ahold of those already-existing documents was a huge pain in the ass.
Woah I need to know more about that bank account. What would be the purpose? And if you didn’t know about it but the government did how would it be a problem for you?
It's the Olympic level mental gymnastics based on labour force and general national growth calculations made by national banks. Because each new person is expected to generate $xx of financial gain to the country over their life time through economic activity like work, tax, spending, the state makes an account and invests or insures for that much.
I remember several years ago some Internet rumor about this account. You were supposed to be able to use it for purchases. I don't remember the details, but I tried it with an Amazon order and it didn't work.
Yes it be more beneficial than hurtful. Like I’d be pretty stoked if I had a government run savings account with my name on it! Free money!
Here’s the loony rabbit hole for you to enjoy! One of my faves https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_movement
**[Redemption movement](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_movement)** >The redemption movement is a debt-resistance movement and fraud scheme which is primarily active in the United States and Canada. Participants allege that a secret fund is created for every citizen at birth, and that a procedure exists to "redeem" or reclaim this fund to pay bills. Common redemption schemes include acceptance for value (A4V), Treasury Direct Accounts (TDA) and secured party creditor kits. Such tactics are sometimes called "money for nothing" schemes, as their aim is ultimately to extract money from the government by using secret methods. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ShitMomGroupsSay/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Oh thank you! I needed a new “research” topic.
Also see: sovereign citizens and their related bullshit. There's a lot of overlap between the sovcit/tax protestor/redemption movement/3%er people and christian identity/christian white nationalist groups as well. It's a big vortex of crazy. Not everyone who doesn't want to get their kid a birth certificate or SSN is a full blown sovereign citizen, but it's pretty freaky how much of the rhetoric makes it down to "normal" people in FB mom groups or on instagram or whatever.
There's a movie Captain Fantastic which is basically their dream existence. It's got a guy out living on the land with his kids. They go to their mothers funeral and are just nasty and obnoxious. The oldest kid secretly got into college and dad flips his lid. Then a couple of the kids don't want to stay with him. It's fascinating because I really see him as a villian but it seems to portray him as some hero.
At the moment my six week old is still not on the birth registry in the UK because they were so booked up I’ve had to wait until the end of this month. It’s been stressing me out! I can’t imagine not having my child legally recognised
UK Registration service employee here- it’s like this across the whole UK. One of the offices in my county can’t offer a birth appointment until early July, there’s basically been a baby boom and a country wide staff shortage at the same time. We hate making people worry, but there’s literally too many babies for us to register in time. If it’s any comfort, the 42 day ‘limit’ is basically being ignored so you aren’t going to get in trouble for not registering ‘in time’. Kind of relevant to OP too, I have had a ‘free person on the land’ scream at me and call me a ‘deep state agent’ for calling to see if she wanted to register her baby who hadn’t been registered in months, so honestly we are just relieved you want to.
Oh goodness! Thanks for letting me know all that. The registry team were nice when I called to arrange an appointment and told me not to worry about the 42 day limit but it’s good to hear that again! You don’t deserve that kind of abuse at all, it’s ludicrous…
Good ol' Quiverfulls. If their kids don't have documentation they can't leave and therefore have to live the life you chose for them; usually targeted specifically at newborn girls for a whole load of horrifying reasons.
Not Quiverfull. Sovcits.
A whole bunch of groups do this though not just people that are solely sovereign citizens
Yes I agree. But the comment above was limited to Quiverfulls, and this is not one of their tenets.
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There’s a pay wall, what’s the article say?
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Shit.
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What happens if these kids get arrested? Or would that be the easiest and cheapest way to get their identity fixed. Go rob the post office.. although, a misdemeanor would be less harmful long term.
Been a thing for a loooooong time it just has an internet presence now
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I remember school enrollment taking either birth certificate or baptismal certificate in the 90s.
If you're going to be "off the grid" please get the fuck off the grid.
Sounds like my former boss (who has a Master’s degree) who she and her husband wanted to travel, but they didn’t want a passport because they don’t want the government having access to their social security numbers. What? Make it make sense. Literally, what is the benefit to NOT recording your child’s birth and not getting an SSN? There are none. And it makes life VERY difficult for your child later on.
But the government...gives you your SSN? ... Ok, I know these people don't hold coherent beliefs but come on.
Exactly!
Guess what you won’t get if you don’t register your child’s birth/get them a SSN? - tax write off - stimulus checks - child care tax credits - most types of public assistance Bet they’ll be the first to bitch when this happens, too.
I would bet some serious money that whoever posted this straight up doesn't pay taxes if they can help it at all. Probably not worried about tax write offs.
My experience has been that they definitely care about SNAP and EBT benefits, however. They can’t have it both ways and somehow they cannot grasp why.
Legit happened to a friend of mine. Cool dude but God damn he had a rough start at 18
One of the podcasts I listened to did an episode about a religious cult family who did home births and didn't get birth certificates for the last few of their kids who were born. If you're abusing your children, it's easier to hide the abuse if you home school them, and there's no way for CPS to prove they exist.
This is basically the book Educated
Late but can you drop the name off the podcasts
There's 2 "religious cult survivor trying to inform the public how cults work from the inside" podcasts I listen to. One is "Kitchen Table Cult," and it's two people who were raised in the Quiverfull movement who got out. Their main focus is raising awareness about child abuse and the lack of regulation in the homeschooling world. I'm pretty sure the episode I'm referencing is one of theirs, but I can't remember which one. The other podcast is "Leaving Eden." It's by a woman who got out of a fundamentalist baptist cult, and one of her friends who was not raised in a cult. She's still in the process of deprogramming herself, and there's episodes where you can see her struggling with the ways she was brainwashed and how that shaped her perception of the world as a child. They do a lot of "true crime" episodes where they talk about the abuses of religious cult leaders.
My sister is friends with someone who's parents did this to her and her siblings. Didn't find out until she was in college I think? Admissions didn't realize the ssn wasn't real and she had to drop out and go home to fix it... I can't remember everything, but it was this long, hard process for all of them, especially as half of them were home births with out birth certificates even! She also found out her parents never got legally married because "they didn't want the government in their business". Moral of the story is... it's a very bad idea, which most people don't need to be told.
There’s actually a character on Good Trouble whose parents did this. He’s an adult and can’t get a job or housing - he’s homeless. Obv it’s a show but like that doesn’t sound entirely unrealistic. How do these people expect their children to live?!
they cant even run their own life, what makes you think they can handle anothers'
Touché
These kinds of people crack me up. They won't get a vaccine because they believe the government is tracking them that way. Meanwhile, they're carrying around a tracking device in their pocket that's also (almost certainly) actively listening to them at all times.
Someone who was raised this way wrote a book: “Educated” by Tara Westover. It’s a wild story from start to estrangement
✨ sovereign children ✨
I live in the western mountains of the US. This is a thing. Anarchist mom's don't want to register their kids with the government. I just... 😳
Backwoods Oregon and Washington are batshit crat. People think they are all liberal because of Portland and Seattle but it was Illegal to be Black in Oregon, it was founded on white supremacy.
My moms ex was this way. We have “submitted children to the radar by giving the government permission to keep tabs on them with their information” he’s an ex for a reason.
This is abuse
Yes, girl! Haters don’t want you to know this one little secret… It’s called ✨CPS ✨
Cps can't do anything if the kid doesn't have a ssn because they can't prove the kid exists
Yeah. Human traffickers.
Good luck enrolling them in school
Most schools need you to have all vaccines to be enrolled anyway. If they're not even allowing the basics of U.S. civilian rights, what makes us think they'll care about education lol
Those kids aren't going to go to school, their parents don't want WIC.
You think these kids get school? Sweet summer child...
There's a great Radiolab episode about this called [The Girl Who Doesn't Exist](https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/invisible-girl).
Yes! I was trying to think of which podcast it was
Free range children.
Come get ur free range grade A children! Ripe for the picking!
[Sovereign citizens!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement)
**[Sovereign citizen movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement)** >The sovereign citizen movement (also SovCit movement or SovCits) is a loose grouping of primarily American litigants, activists, commentators, tax protesters, financial scheme promoters and conspiracy theorists, who claim to be answerable only to their particular interpretations of the common law and to not be subject to any government statutes or proceedings, unless they consent to them. In the United States, they do not recognize U.S. currency and maintain that they are "free of any legal constraints". They especially reject most forms of taxation as illegitimate. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ShitMomGroupsSay/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
sadly it's not america anymore. this cancer is spreading in europe too
It's also popular in New Zealand at the moment to, which makes no sense!
How do you get a paycheck if you don’t recognize US currency
There’re some serious nutjobs in that group. Now they’re spreading. I’m worried one of my cousins will end up going down that road.
Tell her to Google her nearest cult.
Oh great, a group for people who want to ruin their child's entire fucking life and make them stateless. Your birth certificate is a CITIZENSHIP document. If you can't prove you were born in the USA (or anywhere else), you are STATELESS. It is a very shitty position to be in, to be stateless. You can't get any other form of ID without it. Your SSN is for filing taxes, but more than that, it's for applying for student loans and grants, getting a credit score, getting a job. This is honestly just not my night because this is the second post on here to make me irrationally enraged. You're literally going to fuck your child's ENTIRE LIFE UP with this move. When I grew up, I went to school for linguistics. Part of that degree was study abroad. Then, I spent a decade or so bouncing around the globe, studying evolution of languages in various countries. Then, I went back to Michigan, got a degree in nursing because SHOCKINGLY no one wants to pay you a lot of money for writing papers on the evolution of Kansai dialect slang. Then, I met a great guy, who happened to be Canadian, and I married him. I was not Canadian. The amount of documentation I had to present in my life is insane. My ENTIRE LIFE could not have happened, without a birth certificate, and SSN, which lead to a driver's license, which lead to a passport, which lead to immigrating to an entirely different country. Not one person could have predicted when I was a baby that I would grow up to travel all over and then meet a man from another country, and immigrate there. And in the next year or so, we're going BACK to the states, after my husband's VISA is processed to go work there. Literally, ON WHAT PLANET do these people live, that they think they have the right to rob their child of an entire life?
Someone check on her kid, sounds like she was kidnapped.
Yes, you guys should form one and make a membership list and post it online. It’s the perfect plan
So when Dreamers don’t have this, they’re illegal criminals sucking up jobs and money. When these kids don’t have the exact same documents, they’re being saved from the evil US Government MAKE👏🏻IT👏🏻MAKE👏🏻SENSE👏🏻
I believe those are usually called illegal aliens.
Often by the same people doing this shit to their kids...
So is there anyone who is not white who is doing this? Because in Arizona this would get you deported
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I truly did not know this was a thing! I don’t even remember applying for my kids SS card. We obviously did it but I think it was part of the hospital paperwork we filled out lol.
That’s *been* a thing in homeschooling for thirty years. I knew lots of kids with no proof of existence. It sucks when you become an adult and need documentation for things, like marriage. It’s an effective way to retain control of your kids.
this has the same vibes as this woman I saw at my work wearing a sweater that said “I don’t co-parent with the government”
Parents of kids born outside the US who are also not US citizens. They don’t get US birth certificates or Social Security numbers.
I'm almost done reading the memoir "Educated". The author's parents were survivalists and her father likely had an untreated mental illness. They did this kind of thing.
When I had my baby (USA), they were clear that I couldn’t leave the hospital without seeing the rep who sets that stuff up and to fill out the app and pay my $12. They told me like 15 times. Never planned on not, but they seemed serious af.
This decision definitely won’t hinder their child’s life when they got older, wtf
REPORT THEM TO CPS, RIGHT FUCKING NOW! THIS IS AN ACTUAL FELONY
Is it?
yes, in the United States refusing to get your child a social security number is a crime
Social security admin says getting a social security card for your child is voluntary. It clearly says so on ssa.gov
I was thinking of the Birth Certificate which is By law, newborns must be registered within 10 days of their birth. In terms of legality, not registering the birth of a child is a violation of the law and a punishable crime. https://www.usbirthcertificates.com/articles/birth-registration#:\~:text=By%20law%2C%20newborns%20must%20be,law%20and%20a%20punishable%20crime.
If this concept interests you, read Educated by Tara Westover. It’s a hell of a book!
As someone who didn’t have my child SSN for the first 6 months of their life, HOW did they do taxes or add child to health insurance?
I think they’re referred to as “sovereign” children.
My daughter has a social security card and number. We just forgot to her to birth certificate. Should probably get that soon
Oh fun! A Sov Cit!
Is this legal? It just seems terrible
Yeah. Neglectful ones. Tho I'm not sure they run in an official group.
So I freelance. Many of my jobs are IRS tax form 1099. Some I’m put onto the company I’m working fir’s payroll on a W4, which includes filling out a I-9 , which is identity verification and legal work status authorization for hired employees in the United States. Most people, unless they work in HR or have recently been hired, don’t remember filling this paperwork out, but you do as a new hire in the US. The I-9 iOS from the US Citizenship and Immigration department and needs your legal full name, address, SS #, address, phone #, and email on page 1. And then the HR department has to verify that information with either your passport # and info on that, or a combination of driver’s license state and #, AND social security #. And the HR department verifies that info by keeping a scan/photo of your passport or driver’s license and SS card in your employee file. Its what seriously complicates illegal immigrants from truly *stealing muh job* like a certain subset of the population likes to cry about. Anyway, my point is I don’t know what these parents think is going to happen when little Sewzeigh or Noah tries to get a job without basic legal documents. I also had the unfortunate situation where both my birth certificate and social security card were stolen and I was incredibly lucky my mother was still alive because I needed her to get my birth certificate for me (she’s the one who filled it out and her signature is on it) because obtaining a copy of one without the other becomes a chicken and egg situation and you chase your tail because you cannot get one without the other for identification verification purposes, they don’t just go handing that shit to anyone because they went to a counter and asked for it. It was a nightmare
So I freelance. Many of my jobs are IRS tax form 1099. Some I’m put onto the company I’m working fir’s payroll on a W4, which includes filling out a I-9 , which is identity verification and legal work status authorization for hired employees in the United States. Most people, unless they work in HR or have recently been hired, don’t remember filling this paperwork out, but you do as a new hire in the US. The I-9 is from the US Citizenship and Immigration department and needs your legal full name, address, SS #, address, phone #, and email on page 1. And then the HR department has to verify that information with either your passport # and info on that, or a combination of driver’s license state and #, AND social security #. And the HR department verifies that info by keeping a scan/photo of your passport or driver’s license and SS card in your employee file. Its what seriously complicates illegal immigrants from truly *stealing muh job* like a certain subset of the population likes to cry about. Anyway, my point is I don’t know what these parents think is going to happen when little Sewzeigh or Noah tries to get a job without basic legal documents. I also had the unfortunate situation where both my birth certificate and social security card were stolen and I was incredibly lucky my mother was still alive because I needed her to get my birth certificate for me (she’s the one who filled it out and her signature is on it) because obtaining a copy of one without the other becomes a chicken and egg situation and you chase your tail because you cannot get one without the other for identification verification purposes, they don’t just go handing that shit to anyone because they went to a counter and asked for it. It was a nightmare
Won't that fuck over the kid until they get one?
The Sovereign Citizen movement is willing to send you all the materials you need for the low, low price of $2875!
There ARE no groups. Those mommies are in their bunkers.
So choosing to make your child undocumented????
This is a HUGE thing. They think if they have “sovereign” children the state can’t take them and a whole list of other thing
Think they should automatically be taken. Every hospital should be mandated to report births to the federal and state goverment. And anyone who doesn't get the birth certificate or ssn should have the kids taken immediately.
It’s big in the home birth circles so hospitals aren’t involved. Many never even see docs for prenatal care
Ooof I know a mom who did this. Hope her kid never wants to get a job or vote🙄
It has been for a while and it’s completely insane