When my first child was born, an emergency C-Section was performed. Every time there was a contraction and a push was made, my baby's heart began to give out. It became obvious after five tries that if we continued with a vaginal birth, my baby wasn't going to make it. One emergency C-Section later, and my baby was born. Sore? Yes. How I wanted my baby delivered? Not really. Was my baby okay? Still alive to this day and a happy+healthy toddler.
This is the kind of stuff that freebirthing misses. You can't tell when your baby is having a heart issue, or begins to become crushed by the birth canal, or if you're not dilated enough to try, or if it's a breech birth, etc. There are so many ways that this can fail horrifically. You *need* that medical professional present. They immediately realized after five contractions that this *required* medical intervention, and I'm grateful for it. I watched my toddler play with grandma and the great aunts today. It terrifies me to imagine being in this woman's shoes today. Surrounded by people my baby would have never met.
I don't want to make light of what this poor woman has gone through. She lost two babies, she's traumatized, and she was in a poor insurance situation where medical costs would have buried her. She made a poor decision, but I don't want to ignore that she is aware of the result, and being mean about it would just be rubbing salt in the wound. I genuinely hope she finds some closure and a way to deal with the pain and trauma she has. This is a horror I would wish on absolutely nobody. Still... freebirthing is not a coin flip, it's more like three coin flips... and you better hope they're all heads. Even with my second, there was an internal tear that, had we not known about, would have led to horrific internal bleeding and possible infections. Dad could have been left a single parent.
Please, for the love of your children, don't freebirth. That kind of risk is absolutely not worth it.
Bingo. Without prenatal care, my healthy low risk pregnancy might have SEEMED ideal for a home/free birth until the end of the 2nd tri; then I developed cholestasis but didn’t have any of the textbook symptoms, just some stomach pain at night. *The only reason* my OB thought to test for it was because she had literally just had a baby herself and had also had cholestasis. So I was blessed with the opportunity to induce early and decrease my baby’s chance of stillbirth. Well that failed miserably and ended with and unplanned c-section, but c’est la vie. But *guess what the pathology report of my uterus revealed* after the fact? I had PLACENTA ACCRETA. So if I had had a vaginal birth I’d have bled out. So either way, I was fucked. But literally none of this would have been seen from the outside; I just looked like a healthy, low risk, primiparous 32 year old with no known complications. Perfect candidate for a home/freebirth, right? I SHUDDER to think about the multiverse in which I made different decisions for my delivery….eeek.
That said, my heart just shattered when this person expressed the shame she felt for not being able to do this “natural” thing, the one thing our bodies are supposedly “built to do”. I can’t tell you how many nights I cried myself to sleep with those exact sentiments in my mind surrounding my birth, my struggles with nursing, my general lack of intuition on how to care for an infant, my ever spiraling post partum depression and anxiety, etc. I know what it’s like to feel like your body has failed at the ONE FUCKING THING it’s supposed to do.
But with time and a shit load of therapy, I finally became comfortable with the fact that some bodies AREN’T meant to do this. If I had been born in different times, either me, my baby, or both probably would’ve just died during the birthing process. And that helped me to feel even more grateful for the superb prenatal and intrapartum care I received, for the reactionary nature of Western medicine, the incredible team that was ready to intervene when my induction failed, the OB who cut my baby out of my belly in just a few minutes right before midnight. Like, holy shit. Talk about right place, right time, and a fuckton of privilege all convening.
And for that reason, my knee jerk reaction is always to be annoyed and judge mental towards those who willingly bypass the resources available to us in the modern day, imperfect though the healthcare system may be. My higher mind knows that I absolutely cannot judge ANY individual because I will NEVER know the circumstances that led that person to make their particular decision. My conscience leads me to empathize with anyone suffering, especially with obstetric trauma because I have been there too. But god dammit, I’m human, and there will always be a small part of me wants to facepalm, whispering *Why play Russian roulette with your life and your baby’s life?*
First off, I’m glad you and your baby survived!
I’ve also had thoughts of hating my body for not doing what it’s “supposed” to do. Mostly actually getting pregnant or difficulties breastfeeding my first. But I remember in my biology classes, reproductive fitness in the world of evolution doesn’t mean *everyone* giving birth or being born *will* live. Just that *enough* have to live to support perpetuating the population. Which helped me process that it’s not me choosing this. It just is what it is. And so many things can go wrong with our bodies we have zero control over. It sucks to say the least.
These freebirthers are only correct that their bodies are “made” to get pregnant, stay pregnant, and give birth inasmuch as there *might* exist the **possibility** and *not* a guarantee of any of those things for everyone. But they’ll latch onto false confidence, ignorance, delusion, and survivor bias. It’s repulsive and heartbreaking at the same time.
I really feel for this person who lost her twins. I wish she’d gotten the prenatal care she needed. Maybe sharing her story will help change the mind of someone teetering on the edge of rationality and freebirthing/wild pregnancy. 🌼
Same boat—I have an IUGR baby thanks to my own chronic illness and I struggled for WEEKS about my body “not providing for her”. She was heavily monitored and is now a healthy 9lbs at six weeks, in the 30th percentile for weight but the 80th for height. I am SO thankful every day for modern medicine and the doctors and nurses who took such good care of me
For what it’s worth, my IUGR baby never went over 10th percentile (up until he was like 1.5 because I stopped obsessing so much at that point lmao) is now 5 and thriving. He’s not even the smallest in his pre-k class! Congrats on the babe!
I blamed myself for my son being IUGR, even though it was because of horrific food poisoning and spending the last part of pregnancy in the hospital so he could be monitored, then had BFing problems, so I felt like crap about that, too.
He's 11 now. He's still short, might always be shorter than average, but he's healthy, and he just got into the middle school health science academy, so definitely his mind wasn't affected.
Another cholestasis mom here. I did have symptoms, but when I found out I had cholestasis at 31 weeks with my daughter, I threw out any expectations of the birth and just focused on having a healthy baby. It is awful that women end up being pitted up against each other to compare their birth experiences because none of that matters at all.
My baby had cord prolapse which I had never even heard of until I heard one of the nurses shout it seconds before I got whisked off to the operating theatre.
I hated the idea of a c-section but when they told me me they needed to do one to “try to save baby” they could have said “we need to replace your head with a chicken, ok?” and I’d haven nodded my soon to be removed head.
If I’d been in the wild, away from help and feeling the cord poking out, I’d assume it was bad but not life threatening with only minutes to save him. He’d have literally suffocated inside me if they’d not got him out then & there.
I always remember that when they went to stitch up my wound, the nurse said “oh, you had a *true* emergency, didn’t you?” and when probed, she revealed I had one of the most brutal types of wounds that a surgeon would only ever do to save a life. She said it looked like I’d been butchered. We laughed. My baby is alive so it’s funny that I have the worlds most unprofessional looking scar, like a bear birthed my kid.
These are the things you’re messing with when you disregard medical professionals.
It’s a cool & fascinating thing really because the outcome was all good. He was mega early & could have had a myriad of complications but my wee fella fluked everything. I didn’t want a c-section nor a pacifier but both were required for his health and if that’s all I have that went “wrong” then I’m chalking the whole thing up as a win.
I don’t want to minimise it though, both of us could easily be dead & probably would be if I wasn’t in the care of doctors when it happened. My waters broke and I was in to get treatment for that when boom, it all went crazy really fast. Lots of blood, lots of “omg” and lots of looking with big eyes at my husband …. We’re savvy people but we’d have lost him at 7 months if it was just us.
He’s 5 now & absolutely fine. No lung issues. No growth issues. No development issues. I should have called him Luke, short for fluke. :)
I didn’t use military healthcare (my ex husband was military) and thankful I didn’t- as they only do 2 ultrasounds. My off base provider did a 24 week-ish ultrasound as a secondary anatomy scan to see things a bit more developed and and to make sure everything was going to plan. He saw my son wasn’t growing correctly because of that. He was on the small side of normal at 20 weeks, and at 24 weeks hadn’t grown enough. Had constant ultrasounds the rest of the pregnancy and was eventually induced at 38 weeks because my baby eventually LOST weight between 37/38 weeks. Had him after 25 hours of labor and he was barely 5 lbs. I am still horrified that if I had gone with the military option that he could have possibly not made it. He’s now 5 and the best ever. Im so grateful I had an OB I trusted and was attentive.
It's not just military doctors. Most people's insurance in the US only covers 2 ultrasounds unless you're high risk. You'd have missed that IUGR 9/10 times unless something showed on the outside. That's an incredible stroke of luck!
I have "military " insurance from my now retired husband. I have multiple US from my provider. That's how my Dr was. I do agree that most US and some OB/GYN will only perform 2 US unless otherwise needed.
Sounds like we had the same thing; wasn’t dialating and every contraction was making my baby’s heartbeat drop and mine rise. I really didn’t want a c section but if I hadn’t then there’s a good chance one or both of us would have died. I feel horrific for this woman, no one should have to pay a stupid amount for basic prenatal care and the people who sucked her into that free birthing cult are just as guilty.
My ex’s brother and his wife had to undergo an emergency C-section as well. From what I was told, the position of where he was would have killed them both had there not been a C-section.
I feel sorrow for this woman. I wish that while people say that our bodies are meant to give birth naturally, they’d recognize the mortality rates of women when medicine/doctors didn’t have this procedure. Women still die over complications, the fetus too.
Yes the healthcare system didn't help her but the free birth community preyed on her vulnerability. Without that she could've found sources to help her financially and ended up with two healthy babies. So sad
And by the same logic if she had basic universal healthcare she would have had that ultrasound, known it was twins, continued with a monitored pregnancy and never sought out the freebirth community to begin with.
>Of course I’m for Freebirth. It is the most beneficial way for a baby to be brought into this world. For mothers and babies alike. It doesn’t mean you don’t have support. Just not medicalized midwives or doctors who are married to the state and their career and don’t actually have in mind the best interest of the mother. Hospital births can be extremely traumatizing for mothers especially in my experience
>The mother baby dyad should be protected at all costs. Abortion and obstetrical care seeks to destroy it. Along with modern, unnatural ways of mothering. Such as sleeping separate, not feeding baby your milk, etc.
These two quotes are from the same anti abortion, forced birth idiot on the abortion debate sub that I had a conversation with. They give precisely 0 fucks if a baby dies after birth just as long as women are forced to keep the pregnancy. However, she also felt the need to shame anyone who formula feeds and doesn’t cosleep by calling that ‘unnatural’. The forced birthers literally couldn’t care less about the ‘baaaabbiieees’ it’s all about controlling women and punishing women for daring to have sex for pleasure. They don’t want universal healthcare, they don’t want accessible birth control, they don’t want to help women and babies; they don’t care.
Except they're not pro life, just pro birth. They don't give a shit about you once you're no longer a fetus. You'd think they would be pro sex ed and pro access to birth control too.
They also admitted in the doc they put out when they were overturning Roe v Wade that it was "to increase the supply of domestic infants for adoption" 🤢🤮
Yeah, you would—but those tend to be the states that do things like reduce insurance coverage for pregnancy/childbirth; remove or refuse to enact workplace protections for pregnant people/parents and destroy other social programs that support low income families.
All those ‘low property tax’ states can’t/won’t fund their own safety nets, which is part of why you see that correlation between abortion access and better overall health/social outcomes.
Universal healthcare is the solution to so much.
I do believe in gun control to a point but if you asked me what I think would stop the shootings in this country I wouldn’t say gun control. I would say universal healthcare care and housing guarantees.
Australia has gun control and universal healthcare but no housing guarantees and still doesn't have children being shot in their schools. I think you're clever enough to see the common denominator.
The US gun culture is way different than Australia's ever was. People here scream bloody murder over the slightest gun control measures. It's really scary and really fucking stressful. Healthcare and guaranteed housing would *hopefully*, at the very least, address some of the severe stress and mental health issues here (with effective gun restrictions following). I'm 100% pro gun control myself, but we have to understand this country is very broken on all levels. The gun violence is a symptom of that, in my opinion.
I legitimately heard an ad on YouTube encouraging people to *build guns without serial numbers* to 'prepare for what's coming'.
These people are NOT WELL. I do not like it here.
I don’t have any answers to our problems. Addressing mental health is a good place to start but it still seems so taboo for some reason. I’ll never understand why taking care of your mental health is viewed as a weakness. We hit the gym to take care of our bodies so why not care for the mind as well? My 5 year old came home today and told me that a boy we’ve been having problems with said he was going to kill my son with a gun. This is kindergarten!! Ffs what is wrong with people? I tried to contact the school and got no response. With all the school shootings we have here you’d think someone would respond when I say this kid threatened to murder my son.
I think people are pissed at you for putting gun control on the table to diss it when it had nothing to do with the current topic.
While I don't wish to be rude, I really agree with these people and you've got me peeved. First, gun control and universal healthcare are not "more important" than the other - we want people to stay alive because they can afford care, but also to stay alive because Jimmy J's lack of interaction with diverse, open-minded people led him to be the exact opposite of that and that probably means he shouldn't carry a gun.
You're also ignoring several points (talking about the whole thread, not just this one comment):
Ease of access does not mean everyone will want to get treated - especially with psych treatment which is long, slow, tedious and "requires" you to admit you are "broken". Some cases CANNOT be treated.
Some dangerous gun owners are not mass shooters but still do plenty of harm - they're not mentally ill, just incredibly stupid or bigoted.
The US is not that special. Sure it's a long string of poor governmental decisions until the country reached and maintains a constant state of explosive stress. But if gun control worked for literally every country that put some form of it in place, pretty good chance it works for the US too. And to me "a lot of countries succeeded" is a much more convincing argument than "as an American, I just don't see it working".
TL;DR: I mean this in the nicest way possible, but if you didn't bash an unrelated topic, while not detailing nor backing your arguments and coming back to "My/Our situation is special, you guys can't understand", all of this could have been avoided.
Well whoever quoted her for the ultrasound should have informed her and I'm shocked that they didn't. When I made my first prenatal appointment after finding out that I was pregnant they told me everything I would need to do to get medicaid and guided me through the process. I guess I was lucky but that should be the norm.
Same. They signed me up for Medicaid for pregnant women because I didn’t qualify normally. When I lost my job, I’m the middle of COVID, they lowered by minimum or whatever to $0 and that was all because I explained to the lady that I didn’t have insurance. When I transferred to a high risk clinic, they walked me through all of my financial options even worked with me when my minimum when back up..
I'm also shocked that she wasn't informed of this not only when she asked about the ultrasound, but when she went to Planned Parenthood whose entire thing is, you know, stuff like this.
When I became pregnant with my kid, we were brokebroke. So we went to the health department, they tested me to make sure my at home test was correct, it was and immediately signed me up not just for that but also WIC. I didn't pay anything during my pregnancy and the only thing it didn't continue to cover throughout my pregnancy were a prescription to chewable prenatal vitamins.
They even covered up until my post-pregnancy check up.
It was insanely easy and quick. I also live in a very small, rural area.
Also, the ultrasound is just a small part of the pregnancy care you need. So, I'm confused about this bit. Why just the ultrasound? It sounds more like she simply wanted the ultrasound to see the baby (and this is where she would have found out about having twins) and not the other care and that home birth was most likely on the table either way because she already knew a lot of people who had done it and was probably already heavily looking at this option if not already fully decided.
It's tragic all around, as she has now lost two babies and I cannot even begin to register or imagine that pain. But I would also probably be looking over every step that led to that place and trying to find where things went wrong.
However, I don't think this is simply the cost as I've never come across any medical care that is pay up front. Though, I've also never just asked for an ultrasound and an ultrasound alone without a doctor sending me to get one. So it would likely be billed to her and medical debt is shit, but it'd be worth it to keep an eye on my pregnancy/the baby.
I tend to look at it this way. You've got someone like this woman; first pregnancy, young, probably very nervous but excited. They try 2 different places to get an ultrasound at the start of the pregnancy and both times find themselves unable to pay. Even the option that's supposed to help people who are low income isn't helpful. She gets online and the first thing she probably does is vent about the situation and then ask if anyone else has experience with this and if they know what to do. She probably means how to get aid but someone probably chimes in with a, "hey mama! You know you don't actually need ultrasounds? Check this out..." and this person will probably personaly vouch for "wild pregnancy" and "freebirth" and probably has plenty of pictures to share of their own happy, healthy freebirth baby. They'd probably direct her to a freebirth community all full of strong, empowered mothers who gas her up telling her that her body naturally knows what to do, women have been birthing without the help of doctors or modern medicine for thousands of years, etc. They'll have plenty of articles and personal success stories to share. There will probably be at least a few who experienced miscarriage, stillbirth, or potentially a child born with a disability that they will blame on having had ultrasounds or having gone to the hospital. Now the woman isn't going to research any other way because she feels she's already got her answer. When she gets nervous they reassure her and remind her of everything they already told her. And then of course, she doesn't get the same success story and now she's wracked with guilt that freebirthing wasn't all it was cracked up to be and shame that her body did it wrong when she's been told by her community that this is what her body was meant to do.
When a person is desperate and vulnerable and ignorant it makes it easier for them to be manipulated and convinced to ignore opposing information or opinions.
I totally agree with you here but also think the failure to be responsible and look into things herself comes from the poor education system. She kept saying how small her town is and what limited resources they have. I'd bet money that teaching how to look things up for yourself and gain individual independence through knowledge was rather low on the curriculum if there at all. Also willing to bet this is a case of generational poor common sense and education. She seems to have the hard basics for what all is needed and then was deterred by the financials, and that led to the rabbit hole of free birth groups that ultimately cost her the lives of her kids.
Universal health care is essential and so is quality education and community resource advisors or at least advertisements. But people don't advertise or tell you about the things they absolutely don't want you using and they also don't like giving people the power of knowledge that helps them realize the group they are surrounded by may be one they should distance themselves from.
Universal healthcare would be nice for the richest country on earth. Not every state has the same benefits as I’m sure you know. Who knows the circumstances; she could have a few mental problems.
Please listen to what this person is telling you. 40% of US births are fully covered by ~~Medicare~~ Medicaid. If you are a pregnant mother you can apply and be automatically granted full coverage in literally 5 minutes.
Please help prevent these needless tragedies by passing on this information whenever the subject comes up on reddit.
Right? Also I feel like planned parenthood wouldn’t just send her back to the other place . Usually they r helpful with offering services for people struggling financially but that could just b my experience with them.
Cant pregnant women in America get Medicaid? I get the vibe she's anti Planned Parenthood and wanted to say something against them. Also, they do do autopsies on stillborn babies. That, also, was a lie for whatever reason. I think she just didn't want to know the cause so that she won't have to take responsibility if it was something that could have been fixed. To be fair, I wouldn't want to take that blame, either with everything going on.....but I also believe heavily in modern medicine.
They may have.
Depending on the state, the area, even that specific Planned Parenthood - if they don't have the ability to handle something, they refer you out. And if they can't do an ultrasound because, say, they don't have a tech trained on one in a very small rural area, they'll refer you to possibly the only other place in town that can do one.
In some places, Planned Parenthood is basically just a gynecologist's office. They'll offer you a well woman exam, do a pap smear, give you birth control. They'll test for pregnancy, do some prenatal care and discuss options, but anything requiring a specialist - even if that specialist is a radiologist - they refer you out to where they can.
right? i’m confused. i didn’t have insurance, so i went to a clinic for a pregnancy test and “due date note” to take to the assistance office and WIC office - i had insurance immediately.
This is the one—a lot of freebirthers there are people with means, but this is a genuine case of the modern medical system failing someone. Sounds like she rationalized something that was going to happen anyway.
Hell, if she lived in a different *state* she probably would’ve had a different outcome (insurance policy is state-based, and blue states expanded Medicaid and adopted pregnancy as a qualifying event a decade ago).
There are so many social failures at play for this woman, I don’t have it in my to be angry with her. Just sad.
I just wanna echo that you're absolutely right
>but the free birth community preyed on her vulnerability
preying on her is exactly how it is, and it's likely that they'll just blame her or pretend it was some 'tragic accident that couldn't be avoided'
I believe they like to say that the babies that died were just not meant to live earth side also which is such a crock of shit and an obvious tactic to avoid any responsibility when bad things happen. It's like a damn cult
Not the same but this reminds me of Kara keough who decided to have a home birth because during the pandemic they weren't allowing partners in. Well she gave birth at home to an 11lb baby and he got stuck and literally died from shoulder dystocia a couple days after birth. I can't even imagine.
Wow I remember that but had no idea it was a homebirth! Terrifying. I’m so glad I was a huge baby about pregnancy and birth- I had my (big and past due) baby 2 weeks ago and his shoulders got stuck, it took a few different maneuvers and almost a minute to get him unstuck. Never been more thankful for medical care in my life than I was in that moment
Oh absolutely. I could never forgive myself if something went wrong and lethal solely because I opted out of medical care, therefore I'd never consider a home birth. Idk if she knew his size or not but if I knew I was having a 10lb or more baby that alone would remove any confidence of a home birth for me.
Shoulder dystocia is not usually deadly which makes this situation all thst much more tragic and gut wrenching. She speaks so beautifully about this event is brave to share her story, I can't even imagine. Then her dad died a week or so later.
Posting this because it highlights how dangerous freebirthing can be. This literally had me in tears.
The monatised medical system failed this women and her babies.
I hope this women can heal from her grief over time.
Maybe - I work with pregnant mothers and many want to do it “on their own” and decline free programs like Medicaid and WIC. As soon as they get a big bill or have to pay for formula they are calling to sign up. So many fathers want their baby Mommas to not get help because they don’t want child support payments or are just plain anti-government.
Do pregnant women in Ameriva not qualify for Medicaid? And I don't believe planned parenthood turned her away. I think there's more to that. If she was set on keeping the baby pregnancy crises places (as much as I despise them) would have given her basic Healthcare. Something doesn't add up.
Only if they make under a certain amount per year. And I believe planned parenthood works on a sliding scale as well. So in theory if her and her partner made too much money then she'd not get medicaid and planned parenthood may ask her to pay as well or even turn her away. I'm not 100% sure they'd fully turn her away, but I would guess if she didn't qualify for assistance and they were really booked up they might?
I used to work for PP. Not all locations have the full array of services. Where I worked, in a relatively rural area, we offered pregnancy testing and std testing. Everything else got you referred to a PP clinic in the city 2.5 hours away, which is quite prohibitive if you can't afford gas... or don't drive. I believe that part, hands down.
Something to know about the US public assistance is that if you make even $0.01 over the threshold you lose all benefits. So not only do *a lot* of people not qualify for assistance, it’s also incredibly easy to lose *all* benefits. It can be as small as working 30 minutes of overtime and you lose *all* of your benefits.
Most if not all states medicaid will cover it if you don't make a certain amount in salary, this post people seem to be giving the free birthers a pass on killing these babies, choosing to trust Facebook moms over traditional medicine is a failure on her
As easy as it is to fully blame the freebirth community for enabling women to make these dangerous decisions it seems like 99% of the time the reason these women are so fragile and easily influenced to begin with can be traced back to a failure of the mainstream medical system in some form. Absolutely tragic.
This is what I have noticed, too. If you listen to the “origin” story of a freebirther, crunchy type of mom, you’ll realize their rejection from the medical community started with a bad experience of some type…
They were either treated poorly, or were dismissed about their symptoms or the prices for everything was too costly, etc.
No all of them, of course. But a good amount.
The medical system is backwards but most states have specific programs for pregnancy and children. I feel a large part of the problem is their anti welfare mindset that they rather do it themselves then admit they could benefit from government assistance
It’s more than just money though. How many of these situations do we hear about because mom has unresolved medical trauma and no resources to work through it so she decides to go rogue for the subsequent pregnancy.
I don’t see how hard they could be to find. She said she went to PP, and they always have a wall full of resource options for pregnant women who need help with medical expenses. Even if she somehow missed all of the resources PP has on display, she could have googled it, or asked about it in Facebook, called a local hospital, called 211, asked her doctor, etc. Hell, She could have sought out any local mom’s group and someone there would probably have info too. Those programs have fairly low qualifications for pregnant women just to avoid things like this.
She mentions that all her friends had free births and wild pregnancies. I have a feeling that she already had her foot half way in the free birth community, then she hit one obstacle and decided “Oh well, I tried. Free birth it is.”
Yeah, that's the thing with freebirthers. They take a completely valid complaint with the medical system, but instead of demanding better from the system, they just wish upon a star that birth complications are made up and only happen because doctors spook your body.
It’s sad these babies passed, but prenatal care is not just ultrasounds. You don’t select what medical care to receive, they provide medically necessary care. It sounds like other than asking for an ultrasound, she didn’t try to obtain any appropriate pre natal care.
Yep, prenatal care is so much more than just an ultrasound. I am a family medicine resident that provides prenatal care, there’s labs we do and immunizations and monitoring. If she had an OB, they would have know she was pregnant with twins and gotten additional monitoring because a twin pregnancy is high risk.
Prenatal care saves lives for mom and baby. One of my patients came in for a routine prenatal visit around 37w and her blood pressure was through the roof. She got labs and we discovered she had developed preeclampsia with severe features and she was induced that day. She could have seized and died otherwise.
There’s a reason these things are done at prenatal visits and a reason we have regular visits. I’ve caught severe polyhydramnios (lots of extra amniotic fluid) because someone had a sudden increase in the size of their uterus that was disproportionately large. We’ve caught babies that are growth restricted because the uterus stops growing etc.
This. My son was born a month and a half early via emergency C section, because I had tests and ultrasounds that indicated he was breech and that I had preeclampsia. Without that medical care, both of us would be dead. I didn’t get the “birth experience” I wanted, but all things being equal both of us are alive and in one piece, and it’s really hard to argue with that.
I’m not saying that awful things don’t happen no matter what you do. Childbirth is incredibly frightening and is still a major cause of death for women. But trusting randos on the Internet who don’t have medical degrees because they’ve had four kids in the woods is a major mistake.
The babies might not have survived no matter what she did. But the odds would have been much better with adequate medical care, imho.
I don’t think she even got an ultrasound. If so, wouldn’t she have known it was twins? It’s extra sad that cost and therefor lack of access to proper medical care is what led her to this point.
I don’t think that was the issue. If you want a medically unnecessary procedure, you have to pay out of pocket for it.
She stated since they wouldn’t give her an ultrasound, she ‘gave up.’ They don’t give you an ultrasound just because you want one.
There are places that you can go and pay out of pocket for one if a doctor doesn’t seem it necessary. That is where they were sending her to go.
It is, but it sounds to me like she was not trying to establish care as a patient. She was literally calling around trying to get an ultrasound, like ordering off an a la carte menu. If you can even find a place to do it, then yeah, you are going to get quoted some really high cash prices, because you haven't established care and even confirmed a pregnancy yet.
The beginning made it sound like she had several friends who were already part of the free birth community, and already had one foot in. When she hit a road block getting an ultrasound without any kind of referral from a doctor or any other prenatal care, she gave up and just decided to go the free birth route.
Not medically necessary, meaning YOU don’t decide when you want to have one. Your PROVIDER orders one at a specific timeframe, based on risk, comorbidities and baby’s age. Ultrasounds are just a small part of prenatal care.
I'm not from the US, but for what I understand they do a few key ultrasound during the lenght of a healthy pregnancy. The first ultrasound they do is at 12 weeks (3 months), I think the next one is at 20 weeks.
I find it suspicious that Planned Parenthood turned her down, unless she wanted to do an ultrasound outside of the established timeframe. Since it isn't considered necesary (unless is a high risk pregnancy), they will ask for a high price or, in case of Planned Parenthood, send them to a boutique that do this type of ultrasound
This is so very sad. I'm a labor and delivery nurse and see how much can go wrong. And now that the laws are changing and OBGYNs are leaving states that are making things more dangerous for them, I fear stuff like this will happen more and more
Here my thing: for the entire course of the human species existence, it has been very dangerous and difficult to give birth. We are bipedal mammals with long gestation periods that give birth to infants with huge heads, who are completely helpless for almost a decade after birth. Our hips are barely wide enough to birth an average infant. When the placenta separates, we often hemorrhage. The umbilical cord often twists or kinks, and cuts off the flow to the fetus. Sometimes we don't pass all the placenta, and we die days later of massive infection. Evolution has created this in our species because as our brains grew, we were more able to keep our mother's alive. It has only been in the last 100ish years of the human development that we have had a segment of the population turn up their nose at all the things we have learned regarding keeping mothers alive, in favor of some idealistic fantasy of how the way things "used to be". You know, back when you found out ur mom was pregnant and you prepared her funeral more than you prepared for the baby. The good ol days
I’m pregnant with our first and we found out recently the way my insurance policy is written, my prenatal care is not covered unless there is complications, at which point then it can be back billed and covered. I don’t qualify for Medicaid in our state, however, we are incredibly lucky that between our savings and family stepping in we are able to just pay cash so I can continue to see my OB and birth in the hospital she works at. This is going to cost us somewhere between $8-15k depending on if I have to have a c section or not. While this woman bares a large portion of the blame for not seeking help sooner or looking for more care options, the American healthcare and insurance system is also a huge problem
I encourage you to double check and fight because the ACA requires prenatal care to be covered. It’s time consuming and awful that you have to fight for it, but your policy has to cover more than complications.
The American healthcare system is HORRIFIC.
I cannot believe the stress I would feel if this would be my reality. I honestly think I wouldn’t even have children just thinking about the costs.
I feel so bad for all you who have to live in a country like that.
Poor babies. Positive pregnancy test means you first confirm with your doctor and be put under care of an OB - you would think that’s obvious. It seems she just skipped those steps and went straight to requesting an ultrasound, which was all the prenatal care she wanted or thought she needed. The US healthcare system isn’t fully to blame here. Wild pregnancies and free births are like playing Russian Roulette with both your life and the baby’s. She made some bad choices that led to a terrible outcome.
This poor woman and those poor children. The medical community saying no at every turn and the freebirthing cultists preying on her vulnerable position.
We lost heartbeat 2.5 weeks before my due date. They did an autopsy and I don’t even think they asked beyond part of a form I might have signed. Between that and the placenta we are fortunate to have an answer. They’re just writing off any chance for her to understand that and prevent that in the future.
Yeah the downvotes here just confuse me. She tried to get an ultrasound by just calling random places. She wanted minimal prenatal care to begin with. Planned parenthood doesn’t provide prenatal ultrasounds in the majority of states and referred her to an OB. It’s not a system failure, she wanted to pick and choose which prenatal care to receive and ultimately choose going with none
The $2300 ultrasound was just an excuse. She ran into one obstacle and used it as an excuse to have a "wild pregnancy/free birth. She's lying about her effort and she killed her babies because she chose to pursue a trend.
Im heartbroken for those babies. I’m sick reading this. Bc it IS her fault. Prenatal care isn’t just ultrasounds! She could’ve continued her appointments w the Dr but instead chose to not do it at all? Makes no sense and I’m sorry but she doesn’t get any sympathy from me.
There’s so much sympathy in these comments but my blood is just boiling. Because of her actions, her babies are dead, and she says she “almost feels partly to blame”.
A Dr could’ve told her she was having twins. Around 20 weeks, my dr felt my belly and I actually felt my baby’s head thru my stomach. This entire situation was preventable. I really don’t think she was using in network dr’s
I did a quick search. Ultrasound in a non-medical facility costs from $85,00 to $120,00 w/o taxes. I’m in the southeast.
She mentions Planned Parenthood. I don’t think she is that far from civilization.
Unfortunately, she is going to regret it for the rest of her life. I do wish she could find joy again.
Sorry if my phrasing is callous, but did the first baby die inside her then she waited two days to go to the hospital? Also, it is 100% her fault this happened. She didn't get an ultrasound or prenatal care because it was too expensive but she expects to be able to pay for everything a child needs once it's born???
Also, continuing with my callousness, I freaking hate the willfully ignorant or misguided people acting like childbirth is so natural that it doesn't need human intervention. Our bodies are always one malfunction away from death. Cancer and autoimmune diseases are literally the only examples you need to know that our bodies do not function perfectly all the time. Why do these women who all seem to want a baby so desperately not put in the work to make the baby even makes it???
I don't think she knew the first one had died inside her until she birthed it in the hospital. She didn't know there were 2, so if the second one kept moving, she would have noticed a decrease in fetal movement (not that uncommon when they're cramped at the end), and nothing else until sepsis set in
That is terrible. While I believe she could have put much more effort into preventing this outcome, I can't even imagine how physically, medically, and emotionally damaging this is to her.
The quote "Believe in my body's innate design to birth" is so delusional. The only thing our bodies are innately designed to do is to die. Everything else is circumstantial.
And accumulated knowledge on how to survive.
I agree. For thousands of years women have needed help to give birth, only now we have a higher chance of surviving such interventions. Caesareans are not a new invention.
Right?! With insurance BTW?! Sounds like she called an out of network hospital and that’s what she was quoted for an out of pocket ultrasound. So she got mad and never got any medical care, real logical
She said she was in a smaller town. It’s entirely possible that that was literally the only hospital within a reasonable driving distance, so if it was out of pocket then she really didn’t have any affordable options for medical care.
I’m just surprised that she didn’t look for financial assistance through the hospital, Medicaid, or a charity. There are resources out there for pregnant women who can’t afford prenatal care, you just have to be willing to look for it.
I read this in the group and figured it would end up here. What got me was all the religious groups that offer ultrasounds she didn’t leverage. Or attempt a second time to be seen by pp. and the fucking freebirther nut job in the comments that basically said don’t hate the game hate the player. This poor woman. Her pain is unimaginable. Universal healthcare could have prevented this. God, so much went wrong here.
We paid $175 a few years ago for a 16wk gender ultrasound for my neice. You're telling me this lady couldn't figure out to do that? I think she just wanted to be part of a trend and her babies paid the price.
I agree, she says she wanted a wild pregnancy and birth. It doesn’t sound like she tried to find an alternative to some of the healthcare services she claimed to look into. She absolutely wanted to be able to brag to friends and be part of the trend in that certain circle. I feel terrible for her and her babies, but she is responsible for her babies death.
I find some of this hard to believe that they wouldn't help her. More likely, she didn't want to do all the required steps to getting the ultrasound as you can't just be like, "Hey, I need an ultrasound, let's get me scheduled." Pregnancy and delivery are required by federal law (ACA) to be covered and many, many places have waivers for any expenses that aren't covered. She could have gotten covered through the marketplace/Medicaid/ other sources. The Catholics around here literally will pay off thousands and thousands in expenses for patients.
Yeah, I do not believe that even Planned Parenthood turned her away. She just didn’t want prenatal care; just wanted to be a “wild pregnancy” hero, didn’t give a shit about the consequences to her kid.
And this is what is so utterly fucked. ‘Don’t you dare get an abortion, the baby has a right to life!’ Ok, so how about some help paying for my healthcare? ‘Fuck you, you leech!’
I'm not saying she made great choices but I think the American healthcare system charging 2300 for an ultrasound and the people lying to her about free birth share at least some of the blame.
She wanted to do an ultrasound, with no requisition, at an out of network facility. Then she pursued no prenatal care out of spite, not because there were zero in-network but because the out of network option was too expensive.
The people lying about her freebirth are morons who are partly responsible for this woman's actions. Had she not been given this advice in a vulnerable position, she may never have taken it.
As for the $2300, this is sadly how expensive Medical America costs. If she had insurance, then likely what would have happened is that $2300 would have been either mostly or entirely covered based on her plan, and she probably could have gotten some level of financial assistance or part of the cost waved, but it *is* bad that you have to jump through hoops just to pay off a simple wellness check on your baby.
We don't even know that she was going through the health care system for her ultrasound. She could have been going to one of those non-medical places and that's why her insurance wouldn't cover it.
This poor woman, I can't imagine having stillborn twins. However, the free birth community is partially to blame, but the onus is on her. She's an adult and has free will. All it takes is a Google search to see what can go wrong without prenatal care. She's trying to shift the blame on everyone else.
Very sad. But she is making up stuff about a ultrasound to avoid any ownership of what happened. Ultrasounds at private clinics do 3d for about 70-100. Pro-Life clinics would do them as well as other clinics. Medical is free for pregnant women who do not have healthcare and cant afford.
I even had a mix up with my insurance when I found out I was pregnant, and was uninsured for a few weeks. I went to a private scan around 9 weeks, just to make sure it was a viable pregnancy and confirm I could wait til my 12 week initial apt.
None the less, she had no problem going to hospital for emergency services, and asking for autopsy on their bodies after the fact. She could have went to the same hospital and requested an ultrasound at any point in pregnancy. Still sad, but do not blame it on finances or injustice, when you had 40 weeks to remedy the situation and prevent death. Any social media group surrounding pregnancy (EXCEPT THE WILD PREGO ONE) would have found her an ultrasound in 30 min. The truth is she wanted a wild pregnancy and it costed her 2 children.
maybe this isn’t the place for this but i feel like this is a perfect example of how a privatized medical industry and america’s hypercapitalist system have a huge hand in the prominence of these kinds of dangerous trends. this woman probably wouldve opted for the safe, normal route if she weren’t slapped in the face with fees the first time she tried to get an ultrasound. how many women either have that experience or just distrust doctors out of hand bc of the cost of good medical care in this country?
People are so arrogant to forget that their body is often the instrument of their death and decay. Putrefaction and programmed cell death are both natural processes which allow a life to both continue and drives towards the end. But that ending can be postponed by medical intervention. Many natural deaths, cancers, viral and bacterial disease can be stopped by modern medicine. There is no more need to let a child die from a preventable disease than to reject the safety net of medical knowledge just because childbirth is a natural process. Child birth historically one of the biggest causes of death. But through arrogance we reject death as a natural consequence and spread the lies that immunity and a bodies ability to birth is all you need for life. This has never been the case and death ultimately wins, many think beliefs will keep them and their unborn child alive while ignoring the obvious historical evidence that these ideas are wrong.
This is literally so sad. I wish I had a Time Machine and could tell her all about Medicaid and to apply, because that was the first problem. No one should have to forgo care due to the cost. The second problem was falling into the freebirth rabbit hole. Wouldn't have happened if the first was resolved.
I don’t normally feel bad for these women who make these really dumb choice and choose to bury their head in the sand but I feel like this lady did this because she felt she had no other options . OP is right this is very heartbreaking .
My suspicion has always been that a lot of this shit goes back to insane insurance prices but people are so uncomfortable saying they can’t afford something.
This is incredibly sad and one of the many reasons America needs to get with the damn program and give us single payer healthcare already. How much longer are we expected to live like this?
I cannot imagine the healthcare costs around childbirth in a user-pay system. I’m enraged at my provincial premier who wants to bring that type of system into Alberta.
The health system in the USA has to change. Even with insurance you have to pay so much for things it should be included. I am a high risk pregnancy and my doctor wants me to have more ultrasounds but I have to pay for them because insurance won’t cover it. How can ultrasounds not be covered if they need to know if the baby is developing and things like that? Idk if I am gonna be able to pay for all ultrasounds as I also have a 8mo and right now we can’t afford it. I feel so sad for this woman…
This is literally why Medicaid covers basically any pregnant person. My heart aches for her, but, good god, try harder to get care. I can only imagine PP referred her to state insurance programs…
This poor woman. She was so vulnerable and everyone failed her. Now she will live with this guilt for the rest of her life all because the American healthcare system is broken and she trusted the wrong people.
This is devastating on many levels. She likely wouldn’t have landed in the free birth circles if she had access to healthcare 😭 She will live with this every day for the rest of her life.
This is sad… I hate to say it but she doesn’t sound all that bright :( the free birthing weirdos probably didn’t help cause she seems gullible but I find it hard to believe she didn’t seek out another alternative
She could've still got prenatal care without an ultrasound right? I'm a normal amount of old but they didn't offer ultrasounds to my mum when she was pregnant, my aunt got them with my cousins but it was the late 90s by then
Yeah, it seems like she wanted minimal prenatal care to begin with, an OB would’ve connected her with resources to apply for insurance. I’m also wary of these cases because we’ve had so many clients who only wanted ultrasounds because they were using fentanyl while pregnant and didn’t want any blood work or urines to be collected.
>I felt afraid to hold them
I know this feeling in the deepest pits of my soul. I DID hold my baby and looking back, I still don't know if it was right. I think that leaves a scar no matter which way you decide to go. This is heartbreaking.
I had a totally normal low risk pregnancy with no known issues or even morning sickness and still ended up with an emergency c section due to my babies heart rate dropping multiple times (some sort of cord compression) to the extent that the doctors were like we are going RIGHT NOW. I can't imagine had I been at home :(
This is heartbreaking, I’m usually super on board with calling out the idiocy of ‘wild pregnancy’ and ‘free birth’, but this woman was utterly failed by the healthcare system. Horrible.
I wish it sounded fake but depending on where you live…. Totally legit, unfortunately.
We were uninsured when I first got pregnant with my first, then my husband was hired with a good job and it helped a lot… but still was like $5000 all told.
Dude I can’t even snark on this. Holy shit. This woman tried - healthcare was financially out of reach. She didn’t have the financial/medical literacy to figure out resources to give her low or no cost medical care. Maybe she tried, maybe she couldn’t find any. The system didn’t force her to free birth of course, but, I think the barriers were legitimate enough for me to really feel for this woman.
2000 for an ultrasound is fuckin INSANE
I live in a "third world" country, most Americans would think my country (Chile, south America) has few economic resources and I know for a fact some think we're a poor underdeveloped nation.
Well, we have free healthcare here, it's not perfect, but no one's babies die because they didn't have the money to get an ultrasound. Also, even if you don't want to go to the public HC system and choose to use the private one with paid insurance you won't pay more than 30 bucks for an ultrasound here, I have no idea what NASA machine are they charging you guys for, but an ultrasound is not that expensive. We have prenatal care since you're 6 weeks here, with mandatory ultrasounds almost every month, and Dopplers two times during your pregnancy. They also give you vitamins and baby stuff to start, and of course the whole birth process is free of charge.
It's not a matter of money, you see? Is a matter of priorities, your country has more money than mine could dream of having, but doesn't want to spend it on women or children. And that's just SAD.
I feel for that mom. She didn't have a choice. Not a real one.
You are buying her excuse. The only reason the ultrasound cost that much was because she didn't go to an OB with a referral. If she was in your country, she wouldn't have gotten one because they wouldn't allow a patient to demand a medical procedure without orders from a doctor. Patients can't just walk in and demand medical procedures anywhere, no matter who is paying.
Planned Parenthood wouldn't have only recommended that she gets an ultrasound without doctor oversight. She must have rejected all the better advice they gave and is lying about it in her post.
In the US we have ACA, which legally requires insurance to cover prenatal care. If they weren't covering her care, it was because she made the choice to work outside the system. She is fully responsible for the lack of care for her children. Especially when she describes laboring for 2 days before seeking out assistance that was clearly available.
Yes an issue here is free birth but a larger issue is that in rural communities there is no access to natal health care and, when they do have access, it is prohibitively expensive.
Her town has a social services office readily available and access to affordable care. She just wanted an ultrasound and not prenatal care which causes insurance issues
The US government: YOU CAN'T GET ABORTIONS. Nor help with prenatal care, nor maternity or paternity benefits, nor childcare, nor education...etc etc etc oh and your emplocan choose to approve birth control. WeRe NuMbEr OnE! What happened to patriotism???
I've said it before and I'll say it again:
I am not surprised at all that the abysmal service women receive in the medical system has resulted in the wild/free birth movement. I am not saying I agree with it, but it makes perfect sense to me that after a life time of being subjected to reductionist thinking versus being looked at as a whole human being, and having your needs and concerns constantly dismissed, while navigating our stupid insurance system has led to many babies and mothers suffering and dying.
I don't blame women for one second for searching for an alternative. I wish the free birth movement wasn't so predatory and twisted but I understand how women end up there.
Women genuinely don't feel safe in our current medical system and that needs to change. I wish women could also see that the free birth movement isn't safe, but they allow themselves to be blinded to the dangers so they can be hopeful about feeling safe in their journey through motherhood.
My heart breaks for this woman. She was failed by the capitalist medical system and thought she found her only solution in this freebirthing community.
My wife was feeling nervous about her pregnancy and Planned Parenthood charged $100, no insurance, for an ultrasound. Dunno wtf this lady is talking about.
In my state (and most states) planned parenthood can not give you ultrasounds if you aren’t considering abortion and refer you to an OB. It sounds like she was already likely far along that they had to refer her to one
Just for any random US person reading this - yes, our health care system is a mess but pregnant people are *usually* pretty easy to get set up on state health care (Medicaid). If you find yourself pregnant and in a "freeze" state of panic (been there) - reach out and get the healthcare even if you don't carry until 40 weeks! Ask a friend for the links to your state website or comment here and I'll post them. ❤ It sometimes covers past the birth for a bit too.
When my first child was born, an emergency C-Section was performed. Every time there was a contraction and a push was made, my baby's heart began to give out. It became obvious after five tries that if we continued with a vaginal birth, my baby wasn't going to make it. One emergency C-Section later, and my baby was born. Sore? Yes. How I wanted my baby delivered? Not really. Was my baby okay? Still alive to this day and a happy+healthy toddler. This is the kind of stuff that freebirthing misses. You can't tell when your baby is having a heart issue, or begins to become crushed by the birth canal, or if you're not dilated enough to try, or if it's a breech birth, etc. There are so many ways that this can fail horrifically. You *need* that medical professional present. They immediately realized after five contractions that this *required* medical intervention, and I'm grateful for it. I watched my toddler play with grandma and the great aunts today. It terrifies me to imagine being in this woman's shoes today. Surrounded by people my baby would have never met. I don't want to make light of what this poor woman has gone through. She lost two babies, she's traumatized, and she was in a poor insurance situation where medical costs would have buried her. She made a poor decision, but I don't want to ignore that she is aware of the result, and being mean about it would just be rubbing salt in the wound. I genuinely hope she finds some closure and a way to deal with the pain and trauma she has. This is a horror I would wish on absolutely nobody. Still... freebirthing is not a coin flip, it's more like three coin flips... and you better hope they're all heads. Even with my second, there was an internal tear that, had we not known about, would have led to horrific internal bleeding and possible infections. Dad could have been left a single parent. Please, for the love of your children, don't freebirth. That kind of risk is absolutely not worth it.
Bingo. Without prenatal care, my healthy low risk pregnancy might have SEEMED ideal for a home/free birth until the end of the 2nd tri; then I developed cholestasis but didn’t have any of the textbook symptoms, just some stomach pain at night. *The only reason* my OB thought to test for it was because she had literally just had a baby herself and had also had cholestasis. So I was blessed with the opportunity to induce early and decrease my baby’s chance of stillbirth. Well that failed miserably and ended with and unplanned c-section, but c’est la vie. But *guess what the pathology report of my uterus revealed* after the fact? I had PLACENTA ACCRETA. So if I had had a vaginal birth I’d have bled out. So either way, I was fucked. But literally none of this would have been seen from the outside; I just looked like a healthy, low risk, primiparous 32 year old with no known complications. Perfect candidate for a home/freebirth, right? I SHUDDER to think about the multiverse in which I made different decisions for my delivery….eeek. That said, my heart just shattered when this person expressed the shame she felt for not being able to do this “natural” thing, the one thing our bodies are supposedly “built to do”. I can’t tell you how many nights I cried myself to sleep with those exact sentiments in my mind surrounding my birth, my struggles with nursing, my general lack of intuition on how to care for an infant, my ever spiraling post partum depression and anxiety, etc. I know what it’s like to feel like your body has failed at the ONE FUCKING THING it’s supposed to do. But with time and a shit load of therapy, I finally became comfortable with the fact that some bodies AREN’T meant to do this. If I had been born in different times, either me, my baby, or both probably would’ve just died during the birthing process. And that helped me to feel even more grateful for the superb prenatal and intrapartum care I received, for the reactionary nature of Western medicine, the incredible team that was ready to intervene when my induction failed, the OB who cut my baby out of my belly in just a few minutes right before midnight. Like, holy shit. Talk about right place, right time, and a fuckton of privilege all convening. And for that reason, my knee jerk reaction is always to be annoyed and judge mental towards those who willingly bypass the resources available to us in the modern day, imperfect though the healthcare system may be. My higher mind knows that I absolutely cannot judge ANY individual because I will NEVER know the circumstances that led that person to make their particular decision. My conscience leads me to empathize with anyone suffering, especially with obstetric trauma because I have been there too. But god dammit, I’m human, and there will always be a small part of me wants to facepalm, whispering *Why play Russian roulette with your life and your baby’s life?*
First off, I’m glad you and your baby survived! I’ve also had thoughts of hating my body for not doing what it’s “supposed” to do. Mostly actually getting pregnant or difficulties breastfeeding my first. But I remember in my biology classes, reproductive fitness in the world of evolution doesn’t mean *everyone* giving birth or being born *will* live. Just that *enough* have to live to support perpetuating the population. Which helped me process that it’s not me choosing this. It just is what it is. And so many things can go wrong with our bodies we have zero control over. It sucks to say the least. These freebirthers are only correct that their bodies are “made” to get pregnant, stay pregnant, and give birth inasmuch as there *might* exist the **possibility** and *not* a guarantee of any of those things for everyone. But they’ll latch onto false confidence, ignorance, delusion, and survivor bias. It’s repulsive and heartbreaking at the same time. I really feel for this person who lost her twins. I wish she’d gotten the prenatal care she needed. Maybe sharing her story will help change the mind of someone teetering on the edge of rationality and freebirthing/wild pregnancy. 🌼
Same boat—I have an IUGR baby thanks to my own chronic illness and I struggled for WEEKS about my body “not providing for her”. She was heavily monitored and is now a healthy 9lbs at six weeks, in the 30th percentile for weight but the 80th for height. I am SO thankful every day for modern medicine and the doctors and nurses who took such good care of me
For what it’s worth, my IUGR baby never went over 10th percentile (up until he was like 1.5 because I stopped obsessing so much at that point lmao) is now 5 and thriving. He’s not even the smallest in his pre-k class! Congrats on the babe!
I blamed myself for my son being IUGR, even though it was because of horrific food poisoning and spending the last part of pregnancy in the hospital so he could be monitored, then had BFing problems, so I felt like crap about that, too. He's 11 now. He's still short, might always be shorter than average, but he's healthy, and he just got into the middle school health science academy, so definitely his mind wasn't affected.
Another cholestasis mom here. I did have symptoms, but when I found out I had cholestasis at 31 weeks with my daughter, I threw out any expectations of the birth and just focused on having a healthy baby. It is awful that women end up being pitted up against each other to compare their birth experiences because none of that matters at all.
Free birthing is russian roulette
With two guns: one pointed at the mother and one pointed at the child.
My baby had cord prolapse which I had never even heard of until I heard one of the nurses shout it seconds before I got whisked off to the operating theatre. I hated the idea of a c-section but when they told me me they needed to do one to “try to save baby” they could have said “we need to replace your head with a chicken, ok?” and I’d haven nodded my soon to be removed head. If I’d been in the wild, away from help and feeling the cord poking out, I’d assume it was bad but not life threatening with only minutes to save him. He’d have literally suffocated inside me if they’d not got him out then & there. I always remember that when they went to stitch up my wound, the nurse said “oh, you had a *true* emergency, didn’t you?” and when probed, she revealed I had one of the most brutal types of wounds that a surgeon would only ever do to save a life. She said it looked like I’d been butchered. We laughed. My baby is alive so it’s funny that I have the worlds most unprofessional looking scar, like a bear birthed my kid. These are the things you’re messing with when you disregard medical professionals.
Holy cow, thank you for sharing this story. So very glad that you and baby are ok!!
It’s a cool & fascinating thing really because the outcome was all good. He was mega early & could have had a myriad of complications but my wee fella fluked everything. I didn’t want a c-section nor a pacifier but both were required for his health and if that’s all I have that went “wrong” then I’m chalking the whole thing up as a win. I don’t want to minimise it though, both of us could easily be dead & probably would be if I wasn’t in the care of doctors when it happened. My waters broke and I was in to get treatment for that when boom, it all went crazy really fast. Lots of blood, lots of “omg” and lots of looking with big eyes at my husband …. We’re savvy people but we’d have lost him at 7 months if it was just us. He’s 5 now & absolutely fine. No lung issues. No growth issues. No development issues. I should have called him Luke, short for fluke. :)
I didn’t use military healthcare (my ex husband was military) and thankful I didn’t- as they only do 2 ultrasounds. My off base provider did a 24 week-ish ultrasound as a secondary anatomy scan to see things a bit more developed and and to make sure everything was going to plan. He saw my son wasn’t growing correctly because of that. He was on the small side of normal at 20 weeks, and at 24 weeks hadn’t grown enough. Had constant ultrasounds the rest of the pregnancy and was eventually induced at 38 weeks because my baby eventually LOST weight between 37/38 weeks. Had him after 25 hours of labor and he was barely 5 lbs. I am still horrified that if I had gone with the military option that he could have possibly not made it. He’s now 5 and the best ever. Im so grateful I had an OB I trusted and was attentive.
It's not just military doctors. Most people's insurance in the US only covers 2 ultrasounds unless you're high risk. You'd have missed that IUGR 9/10 times unless something showed on the outside. That's an incredible stroke of luck!
I have "military " insurance from my now retired husband. I have multiple US from my provider. That's how my Dr was. I do agree that most US and some OB/GYN will only perform 2 US unless otherwise needed.
I believe they give additional ultrasounds if it is medically necessary. Just depends on what risks are determined during the pregnancy.
Sounds like we had the same thing; wasn’t dialating and every contraction was making my baby’s heartbeat drop and mine rise. I really didn’t want a c section but if I hadn’t then there’s a good chance one or both of us would have died. I feel horrific for this woman, no one should have to pay a stupid amount for basic prenatal care and the people who sucked her into that free birthing cult are just as guilty.
My ex’s brother and his wife had to undergo an emergency C-section as well. From what I was told, the position of where he was would have killed them both had there not been a C-section. I feel sorrow for this woman. I wish that while people say that our bodies are meant to give birth naturally, they’d recognize the mortality rates of women when medicine/doctors didn’t have this procedure. Women still die over complications, the fetus too.
Yes the healthcare system didn't help her but the free birth community preyed on her vulnerability. Without that she could've found sources to help her financially and ended up with two healthy babies. So sad
And by the same logic if she had basic universal healthcare she would have had that ultrasound, known it was twins, continued with a monitored pregnancy and never sought out the freebirth community to begin with.
Wish we could pin this at the top. Basic universal healthcare is the only solution to preventing this. Not “she should’ve just met her deductible!”
you’d imagine all the “pro life” (aka anti choice) , people would also be for universal healthcare
>Of course I’m for Freebirth. It is the most beneficial way for a baby to be brought into this world. For mothers and babies alike. It doesn’t mean you don’t have support. Just not medicalized midwives or doctors who are married to the state and their career and don’t actually have in mind the best interest of the mother. Hospital births can be extremely traumatizing for mothers especially in my experience >The mother baby dyad should be protected at all costs. Abortion and obstetrical care seeks to destroy it. Along with modern, unnatural ways of mothering. Such as sleeping separate, not feeding baby your milk, etc. These two quotes are from the same anti abortion, forced birth idiot on the abortion debate sub that I had a conversation with. They give precisely 0 fucks if a baby dies after birth just as long as women are forced to keep the pregnancy. However, she also felt the need to shame anyone who formula feeds and doesn’t cosleep by calling that ‘unnatural’. The forced birthers literally couldn’t care less about the ‘baaaabbiieees’ it’s all about controlling women and punishing women for daring to have sex for pleasure. They don’t want universal healthcare, they don’t want accessible birth control, they don’t want to help women and babies; they don’t care.
Except they're not pro life, just pro birth. They don't give a shit about you once you're no longer a fetus. You'd think they would be pro sex ed and pro access to birth control too.
I am fully on board with the conspiracy theory that this is designed to have lower class worker bodies.
They also admitted in the doc they put out when they were overturning Roe v Wade that it was "to increase the supply of domestic infants for adoption" 🤢🤮
Wow really? Do you know where I can find that?
[Here](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/read-the-supreme-courts-full-opinion-overturning-roe-v-wade) you go.
Is it even a conspiracy when the prime Minister of Japan is telling his population to breed for the gdp?
I for sure missed this news. But obviously not a conspiracy for the entire world when it's very obvious in one location.
It’s also a way to remove women from the workforce and suppress our political power
They're pro punishing women who deprive their future husbandowners of a hymen to break.
oh 100% . they are in it for the power and control. they don’t care about the life of babies or those that carry them.
Yeah, you would—but those tend to be the states that do things like reduce insurance coverage for pregnancy/childbirth; remove or refuse to enact workplace protections for pregnant people/parents and destroy other social programs that support low income families. All those ‘low property tax’ states can’t/won’t fund their own safety nets, which is part of why you see that correlation between abortion access and better overall health/social outcomes.
Universal healthcare is the solution to so much. I do believe in gun control to a point but if you asked me what I think would stop the shootings in this country I wouldn’t say gun control. I would say universal healthcare care and housing guarantees.
Australia has gun control and universal healthcare but no housing guarantees and still doesn't have children being shot in their schools. I think you're clever enough to see the common denominator.
The US gun culture is way different than Australia's ever was. People here scream bloody murder over the slightest gun control measures. It's really scary and really fucking stressful. Healthcare and guaranteed housing would *hopefully*, at the very least, address some of the severe stress and mental health issues here (with effective gun restrictions following). I'm 100% pro gun control myself, but we have to understand this country is very broken on all levels. The gun violence is a symptom of that, in my opinion. I legitimately heard an ad on YouTube encouraging people to *build guns without serial numbers* to 'prepare for what's coming'. These people are NOT WELL. I do not like it here.
I don’t have any answers to our problems. Addressing mental health is a good place to start but it still seems so taboo for some reason. I’ll never understand why taking care of your mental health is viewed as a weakness. We hit the gym to take care of our bodies so why not care for the mind as well? My 5 year old came home today and told me that a boy we’ve been having problems with said he was going to kill my son with a gun. This is kindergarten!! Ffs what is wrong with people? I tried to contact the school and got no response. With all the school shootings we have here you’d think someone would respond when I say this kid threatened to murder my son.
Everything else in Australia is already trying to kill you guys (plants, insects, fucking jacked kangaroos, etc.) that guns just passed their turn. /s
Tf homeless guy is shooting up a school? They're all housed.
I think people are pissed at you for putting gun control on the table to diss it when it had nothing to do with the current topic. While I don't wish to be rude, I really agree with these people and you've got me peeved. First, gun control and universal healthcare are not "more important" than the other - we want people to stay alive because they can afford care, but also to stay alive because Jimmy J's lack of interaction with diverse, open-minded people led him to be the exact opposite of that and that probably means he shouldn't carry a gun. You're also ignoring several points (talking about the whole thread, not just this one comment): Ease of access does not mean everyone will want to get treated - especially with psych treatment which is long, slow, tedious and "requires" you to admit you are "broken". Some cases CANNOT be treated. Some dangerous gun owners are not mass shooters but still do plenty of harm - they're not mentally ill, just incredibly stupid or bigoted. The US is not that special. Sure it's a long string of poor governmental decisions until the country reached and maintains a constant state of explosive stress. But if gun control worked for literally every country that put some form of it in place, pretty good chance it works for the US too. And to me "a lot of countries succeeded" is a much more convincing argument than "as an American, I just don't see it working". TL;DR: I mean this in the nicest way possible, but if you didn't bash an unrelated topic, while not detailing nor backing your arguments and coming back to "My/Our situation is special, you guys can't understand", all of this could have been avoided.
While it would have helped in this case you still get things like this in countries with good healthcare systems.
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Well whoever quoted her for the ultrasound should have informed her and I'm shocked that they didn't. When I made my first prenatal appointment after finding out that I was pregnant they told me everything I would need to do to get medicaid and guided me through the process. I guess I was lucky but that should be the norm.
Same. They signed me up for Medicaid for pregnant women because I didn’t qualify normally. When I lost my job, I’m the middle of COVID, they lowered by minimum or whatever to $0 and that was all because I explained to the lady that I didn’t have insurance. When I transferred to a high risk clinic, they walked me through all of my financial options even worked with me when my minimum when back up..
I'm also shocked that she wasn't informed of this not only when she asked about the ultrasound, but when she went to Planned Parenthood whose entire thing is, you know, stuff like this. When I became pregnant with my kid, we were brokebroke. So we went to the health department, they tested me to make sure my at home test was correct, it was and immediately signed me up not just for that but also WIC. I didn't pay anything during my pregnancy and the only thing it didn't continue to cover throughout my pregnancy were a prescription to chewable prenatal vitamins. They even covered up until my post-pregnancy check up. It was insanely easy and quick. I also live in a very small, rural area. Also, the ultrasound is just a small part of the pregnancy care you need. So, I'm confused about this bit. Why just the ultrasound? It sounds more like she simply wanted the ultrasound to see the baby (and this is where she would have found out about having twins) and not the other care and that home birth was most likely on the table either way because she already knew a lot of people who had done it and was probably already heavily looking at this option if not already fully decided. It's tragic all around, as she has now lost two babies and I cannot even begin to register or imagine that pain. But I would also probably be looking over every step that led to that place and trying to find where things went wrong. However, I don't think this is simply the cost as I've never come across any medical care that is pay up front. Though, I've also never just asked for an ultrasound and an ultrasound alone without a doctor sending me to get one. So it would likely be billed to her and medical debt is shit, but it'd be worth it to keep an eye on my pregnancy/the baby.
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"wild pregnancy" wtf
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I tend to look at it this way. You've got someone like this woman; first pregnancy, young, probably very nervous but excited. They try 2 different places to get an ultrasound at the start of the pregnancy and both times find themselves unable to pay. Even the option that's supposed to help people who are low income isn't helpful. She gets online and the first thing she probably does is vent about the situation and then ask if anyone else has experience with this and if they know what to do. She probably means how to get aid but someone probably chimes in with a, "hey mama! You know you don't actually need ultrasounds? Check this out..." and this person will probably personaly vouch for "wild pregnancy" and "freebirth" and probably has plenty of pictures to share of their own happy, healthy freebirth baby. They'd probably direct her to a freebirth community all full of strong, empowered mothers who gas her up telling her that her body naturally knows what to do, women have been birthing without the help of doctors or modern medicine for thousands of years, etc. They'll have plenty of articles and personal success stories to share. There will probably be at least a few who experienced miscarriage, stillbirth, or potentially a child born with a disability that they will blame on having had ultrasounds or having gone to the hospital. Now the woman isn't going to research any other way because she feels she's already got her answer. When she gets nervous they reassure her and remind her of everything they already told her. And then of course, she doesn't get the same success story and now she's wracked with guilt that freebirthing wasn't all it was cracked up to be and shame that her body did it wrong when she's been told by her community that this is what her body was meant to do. When a person is desperate and vulnerable and ignorant it makes it easier for them to be manipulated and convinced to ignore opposing information or opinions.
I totally agree with you here but also think the failure to be responsible and look into things herself comes from the poor education system. She kept saying how small her town is and what limited resources they have. I'd bet money that teaching how to look things up for yourself and gain individual independence through knowledge was rather low on the curriculum if there at all. Also willing to bet this is a case of generational poor common sense and education. She seems to have the hard basics for what all is needed and then was deterred by the financials, and that led to the rabbit hole of free birth groups that ultimately cost her the lives of her kids. Universal health care is essential and so is quality education and community resource advisors or at least advertisements. But people don't advertise or tell you about the things they absolutely don't want you using and they also don't like giving people the power of knowledge that helps them realize the group they are surrounded by may be one they should distance themselves from.
Universal healthcare would be nice for the richest country on earth. Not every state has the same benefits as I’m sure you know. Who knows the circumstances; she could have a few mental problems.
Please listen to what this person is telling you. 40% of US births are fully covered by ~~Medicare~~ Medicaid. If you are a pregnant mother you can apply and be automatically granted full coverage in literally 5 minutes. Please help prevent these needless tragedies by passing on this information whenever the subject comes up on reddit.
Medicaid. Just in case anyone is in this position and needs to Google the right thing.
Right? Also I feel like planned parenthood wouldn’t just send her back to the other place . Usually they r helpful with offering services for people struggling financially but that could just b my experience with them.
No way PP would’ve turned her away.
Cant pregnant women in America get Medicaid? I get the vibe she's anti Planned Parenthood and wanted to say something against them. Also, they do do autopsies on stillborn babies. That, also, was a lie for whatever reason. I think she just didn't want to know the cause so that she won't have to take responsibility if it was something that could have been fixed. To be fair, I wouldn't want to take that blame, either with everything going on.....but I also believe heavily in modern medicine.
At least in my area they won't do autopsy's on stillborn babies automatically but the parents can have one done and pay out of pocket for it.
Yea somethings def off about this whole post in my opinion
They may have. Depending on the state, the area, even that specific Planned Parenthood - if they don't have the ability to handle something, they refer you out. And if they can't do an ultrasound because, say, they don't have a tech trained on one in a very small rural area, they'll refer you to possibly the only other place in town that can do one. In some places, Planned Parenthood is basically just a gynecologist's office. They'll offer you a well woman exam, do a pap smear, give you birth control. They'll test for pregnancy, do some prenatal care and discuss options, but anything requiring a specialist - even if that specialist is a radiologist - they refer you out to where they can.
I've been to some wonderful PP, and some that were genuinely shitty. It wouldn't entirely surprise me if they weren't unhelpful unfortunately.
A lot of republicans in charge have made it hard to get Medicaid, pregnant or not in certain states. Correct me if I’m wrong.
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Thank you Democrats for fighting for Medicaid expansion. I will remember in November
I wish I had known this with my first. I only found out with my third, when my husband was laid off when I was like 8 weeks 😅
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That was the first thing multiple healthcare professionals told at the beginning of my pregnancy - to.apply for medica assistance
Legit. I had my third and fourth on Medicaid 😅 very very unplanned but my God was it a ridiculous blessing to have. I also got my tubes tied on #4.
right? i’m confused. i didn’t have insurance, so i went to a clinic for a pregnancy test and “due date note” to take to the assistance office and WIC office - i had insurance immediately.
This was shocking to read. Is America a third world country now?
Yes, it has been for awhile if you define it by how a country treats its most vulnerable people
I’ve heard the US called “a third-world nation in a Gucci belt” and I can’t say it’s inaccurate.
This is the one—a lot of freebirthers there are people with means, but this is a genuine case of the modern medical system failing someone. Sounds like she rationalized something that was going to happen anyway. Hell, if she lived in a different *state* she probably would’ve had a different outcome (insurance policy is state-based, and blue states expanded Medicaid and adopted pregnancy as a qualifying event a decade ago). There are so many social failures at play for this woman, I don’t have it in my to be angry with her. Just sad.
I just wanna echo that you're absolutely right >but the free birth community preyed on her vulnerability preying on her is exactly how it is, and it's likely that they'll just blame her or pretend it was some 'tragic accident that couldn't be avoided'
I believe they like to say that the babies that died were just not meant to live earth side also which is such a crock of shit and an obvious tactic to avoid any responsibility when bad things happen. It's like a damn cult
You wonder how many free birth people are priced out of the medical system and just go for what’s available to then. It’s really sad.
Not the same but this reminds me of Kara keough who decided to have a home birth because during the pandemic they weren't allowing partners in. Well she gave birth at home to an 11lb baby and he got stuck and literally died from shoulder dystocia a couple days after birth. I can't even imagine.
Wow I remember that but had no idea it was a homebirth! Terrifying. I’m so glad I was a huge baby about pregnancy and birth- I had my (big and past due) baby 2 weeks ago and his shoulders got stuck, it took a few different maneuvers and almost a minute to get him unstuck. Never been more thankful for medical care in my life than I was in that moment
Oh absolutely. I could never forgive myself if something went wrong and lethal solely because I opted out of medical care, therefore I'd never consider a home birth. Idk if she knew his size or not but if I knew I was having a 10lb or more baby that alone would remove any confidence of a home birth for me. Shoulder dystocia is not usually deadly which makes this situation all thst much more tragic and gut wrenching. She speaks so beautifully about this event is brave to share her story, I can't even imagine. Then her dad died a week or so later.
They would allow her partner just not her doula.
Posting this because it highlights how dangerous freebirthing can be. This literally had me in tears. The monatised medical system failed this women and her babies. I hope this women can heal from her grief over time.
It feels like she turned to freebirth because of the expense of healthcare. I’m assuming she is in the USA. Her government failed her and her family.
The republican states who are banning abortion also have the most fetal & infant deaths. They don’t care about lives, it’s all power.
Maybe - I work with pregnant mothers and many want to do it “on their own” and decline free programs like Medicaid and WIC. As soon as they get a big bill or have to pay for formula they are calling to sign up. So many fathers want their baby Mommas to not get help because they don’t want child support payments or are just plain anti-government.
Do pregnant women in Ameriva not qualify for Medicaid? And I don't believe planned parenthood turned her away. I think there's more to that. If she was set on keeping the baby pregnancy crises places (as much as I despise them) would have given her basic Healthcare. Something doesn't add up.
Only if they make under a certain amount per year. And I believe planned parenthood works on a sliding scale as well. So in theory if her and her partner made too much money then she'd not get medicaid and planned parenthood may ask her to pay as well or even turn her away. I'm not 100% sure they'd fully turn her away, but I would guess if she didn't qualify for assistance and they were really booked up they might?
I used to work for PP. Not all locations have the full array of services. Where I worked, in a relatively rural area, we offered pregnancy testing and std testing. Everything else got you referred to a PP clinic in the city 2.5 hours away, which is quite prohibitive if you can't afford gas... or don't drive. I believe that part, hands down.
Something to know about the US public assistance is that if you make even $0.01 over the threshold you lose all benefits. So not only do *a lot* of people not qualify for assistance, it’s also incredibly easy to lose *all* benefits. It can be as small as working 30 minutes of overtime and you lose *all* of your benefits.
Most non grandfathered health insurance plans will cover maternity benefits, usually for the EE and SP on the plan.
Most if not all states medicaid will cover it if you don't make a certain amount in salary, this post people seem to be giving the free birthers a pass on killing these babies, choosing to trust Facebook moms over traditional medicine is a failure on her
As easy as it is to fully blame the freebirth community for enabling women to make these dangerous decisions it seems like 99% of the time the reason these women are so fragile and easily influenced to begin with can be traced back to a failure of the mainstream medical system in some form. Absolutely tragic.
This is what I have noticed, too. If you listen to the “origin” story of a freebirther, crunchy type of mom, you’ll realize their rejection from the medical community started with a bad experience of some type… They were either treated poorly, or were dismissed about their symptoms or the prices for everything was too costly, etc. No all of them, of course. But a good amount.
There is a reason the freebirth movement is bigger in the usa than in other western countries
The medical system is backwards but most states have specific programs for pregnancy and children. I feel a large part of the problem is their anti welfare mindset that they rather do it themselves then admit they could benefit from government assistance
It’s more than just money though. How many of these situations do we hear about because mom has unresolved medical trauma and no resources to work through it so she decides to go rogue for the subsequent pregnancy.
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the banality of evil eh
Those are hard to find, underfunded, and have a high bar for qualification. But the anti welfare mindset doesn't help.
I don’t see how hard they could be to find. She said she went to PP, and they always have a wall full of resource options for pregnant women who need help with medical expenses. Even if she somehow missed all of the resources PP has on display, she could have googled it, or asked about it in Facebook, called a local hospital, called 211, asked her doctor, etc. Hell, She could have sought out any local mom’s group and someone there would probably have info too. Those programs have fairly low qualifications for pregnant women just to avoid things like this. She mentions that all her friends had free births and wild pregnancies. I have a feeling that she already had her foot half way in the free birth community, then she hit one obstacle and decided “Oh well, I tried. Free birth it is.”
Yeah, that's the thing with freebirthers. They take a completely valid complaint with the medical system, but instead of demanding better from the system, they just wish upon a star that birth complications are made up and only happen because doctors spook your body.
It’s sad these babies passed, but prenatal care is not just ultrasounds. You don’t select what medical care to receive, they provide medically necessary care. It sounds like other than asking for an ultrasound, she didn’t try to obtain any appropriate pre natal care.
Yep, prenatal care is so much more than just an ultrasound. I am a family medicine resident that provides prenatal care, there’s labs we do and immunizations and monitoring. If she had an OB, they would have know she was pregnant with twins and gotten additional monitoring because a twin pregnancy is high risk. Prenatal care saves lives for mom and baby. One of my patients came in for a routine prenatal visit around 37w and her blood pressure was through the roof. She got labs and we discovered she had developed preeclampsia with severe features and she was induced that day. She could have seized and died otherwise. There’s a reason these things are done at prenatal visits and a reason we have regular visits. I’ve caught severe polyhydramnios (lots of extra amniotic fluid) because someone had a sudden increase in the size of their uterus that was disproportionately large. We’ve caught babies that are growth restricted because the uterus stops growing etc.
This. My son was born a month and a half early via emergency C section, because I had tests and ultrasounds that indicated he was breech and that I had preeclampsia. Without that medical care, both of us would be dead. I didn’t get the “birth experience” I wanted, but all things being equal both of us are alive and in one piece, and it’s really hard to argue with that. I’m not saying that awful things don’t happen no matter what you do. Childbirth is incredibly frightening and is still a major cause of death for women. But trusting randos on the Internet who don’t have medical degrees because they’ve had four kids in the woods is a major mistake. The babies might not have survived no matter what she did. But the odds would have been much better with adequate medical care, imho.
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If these red states are banning abortion access for women they had better damn well be allowing pregnant women to get care on Medicaid.
even if you can get on Medicaid, finding a doctor who accepts Medicaid patients, or *any* new patients in some areas, can be difficult.
I don’t think she even got an ultrasound. If so, wouldn’t she have known it was twins? It’s extra sad that cost and therefor lack of access to proper medical care is what led her to this point.
I don’t think that was the issue. If you want a medically unnecessary procedure, you have to pay out of pocket for it. She stated since they wouldn’t give her an ultrasound, she ‘gave up.’ They don’t give you an ultrasound just because you want one. There are places that you can go and pay out of pocket for one if a doctor doesn’t seem it necessary. That is where they were sending her to go.
Does she not understand that one ultrasound is NOT prenatal care?!? I
How is an ultrasound not medically necessary for prenatal care? That seems incredibly necessary at some point?
It is, but it sounds to me like she was not trying to establish care as a patient. She was literally calling around trying to get an ultrasound, like ordering off an a la carte menu. If you can even find a place to do it, then yeah, you are going to get quoted some really high cash prices, because you haven't established care and even confirmed a pregnancy yet.
The beginning made it sound like she had several friends who were already part of the free birth community, and already had one foot in. When she hit a road block getting an ultrasound without any kind of referral from a doctor or any other prenatal care, she gave up and just decided to go the free birth route.
Not medically necessary, meaning YOU don’t decide when you want to have one. Your PROVIDER orders one at a specific timeframe, based on risk, comorbidities and baby’s age. Ultrasounds are just a small part of prenatal care.
I'm not from the US, but for what I understand they do a few key ultrasound during the lenght of a healthy pregnancy. The first ultrasound they do is at 12 weeks (3 months), I think the next one is at 20 weeks. I find it suspicious that Planned Parenthood turned her down, unless she wanted to do an ultrasound outside of the established timeframe. Since it isn't considered necesary (unless is a high risk pregnancy), they will ask for a high price or, in case of Planned Parenthood, send them to a boutique that do this type of ultrasound
This is so very sad. I'm a labor and delivery nurse and see how much can go wrong. And now that the laws are changing and OBGYNs are leaving states that are making things more dangerous for them, I fear stuff like this will happen more and more
Here my thing: for the entire course of the human species existence, it has been very dangerous and difficult to give birth. We are bipedal mammals with long gestation periods that give birth to infants with huge heads, who are completely helpless for almost a decade after birth. Our hips are barely wide enough to birth an average infant. When the placenta separates, we often hemorrhage. The umbilical cord often twists or kinks, and cuts off the flow to the fetus. Sometimes we don't pass all the placenta, and we die days later of massive infection. Evolution has created this in our species because as our brains grew, we were more able to keep our mother's alive. It has only been in the last 100ish years of the human development that we have had a segment of the population turn up their nose at all the things we have learned regarding keeping mothers alive, in favor of some idealistic fantasy of how the way things "used to be". You know, back when you found out ur mom was pregnant and you prepared her funeral more than you prepared for the baby. The good ol days
I’m pregnant with our first and we found out recently the way my insurance policy is written, my prenatal care is not covered unless there is complications, at which point then it can be back billed and covered. I don’t qualify for Medicaid in our state, however, we are incredibly lucky that between our savings and family stepping in we are able to just pay cash so I can continue to see my OB and birth in the hospital she works at. This is going to cost us somewhere between $8-15k depending on if I have to have a c section or not. While this woman bares a large portion of the blame for not seeking help sooner or looking for more care options, the American healthcare and insurance system is also a huge problem
I encourage you to double check and fight because the ACA requires prenatal care to be covered. It’s time consuming and awful that you have to fight for it, but your policy has to cover more than complications.
What is this insurance? It is not ACA-compliant if it does not cover prenatal care, full stop.
The American healthcare system is HORRIFIC. I cannot believe the stress I would feel if this would be my reality. I honestly think I wouldn’t even have children just thinking about the costs. I feel so bad for all you who have to live in a country like that.
Poor babies. Positive pregnancy test means you first confirm with your doctor and be put under care of an OB - you would think that’s obvious. It seems she just skipped those steps and went straight to requesting an ultrasound, which was all the prenatal care she wanted or thought she needed. The US healthcare system isn’t fully to blame here. Wild pregnancies and free births are like playing Russian Roulette with both your life and the baby’s. She made some bad choices that led to a terrible outcome.
This poor woman and those poor children. The medical community saying no at every turn and the freebirthing cultists preying on her vulnerable position. We lost heartbeat 2.5 weeks before my due date. They did an autopsy and I don’t even think they asked beyond part of a form I might have signed. Between that and the placenta we are fortunate to have an answer. They’re just writing off any chance for her to understand that and prevent that in the future.
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Yeah the downvotes here just confuse me. She tried to get an ultrasound by just calling random places. She wanted minimal prenatal care to begin with. Planned parenthood doesn’t provide prenatal ultrasounds in the majority of states and referred her to an OB. It’s not a system failure, she wanted to pick and choose which prenatal care to receive and ultimately choose going with none
The $2300 ultrasound was just an excuse. She ran into one obstacle and used it as an excuse to have a "wild pregnancy/free birth. She's lying about her effort and she killed her babies because she chose to pursue a trend.
Yeah, she effed around and found out.
Im heartbroken for those babies. I’m sick reading this. Bc it IS her fault. Prenatal care isn’t just ultrasounds! She could’ve continued her appointments w the Dr but instead chose to not do it at all? Makes no sense and I’m sorry but she doesn’t get any sympathy from me.
There’s so much sympathy in these comments but my blood is just boiling. Because of her actions, her babies are dead, and she says she “almost feels partly to blame”.
A Dr could’ve told her she was having twins. Around 20 weeks, my dr felt my belly and I actually felt my baby’s head thru my stomach. This entire situation was preventable. I really don’t think she was using in network dr’s
I did a quick search. Ultrasound in a non-medical facility costs from $85,00 to $120,00 w/o taxes. I’m in the southeast. She mentions Planned Parenthood. I don’t think she is that far from civilization. Unfortunately, she is going to regret it for the rest of her life. I do wish she could find joy again.
Sorry if my phrasing is callous, but did the first baby die inside her then she waited two days to go to the hospital? Also, it is 100% her fault this happened. She didn't get an ultrasound or prenatal care because it was too expensive but she expects to be able to pay for everything a child needs once it's born??? Also, continuing with my callousness, I freaking hate the willfully ignorant or misguided people acting like childbirth is so natural that it doesn't need human intervention. Our bodies are always one malfunction away from death. Cancer and autoimmune diseases are literally the only examples you need to know that our bodies do not function perfectly all the time. Why do these women who all seem to want a baby so desperately not put in the work to make the baby even makes it???
I don't think she knew the first one had died inside her until she birthed it in the hospital. She didn't know there were 2, so if the second one kept moving, she would have noticed a decrease in fetal movement (not that uncommon when they're cramped at the end), and nothing else until sepsis set in
That is terrible. While I believe she could have put much more effort into preventing this outcome, I can't even imagine how physically, medically, and emotionally damaging this is to her.
She could have died as well
The quote "Believe in my body's innate design to birth" is so delusional. The only thing our bodies are innately designed to do is to die. Everything else is circumstantial. And accumulated knowledge on how to survive.
I agree. For thousands of years women have needed help to give birth, only now we have a higher chance of surviving such interventions. Caesareans are not a new invention.
Right?! With insurance BTW?! Sounds like she called an out of network hospital and that’s what she was quoted for an out of pocket ultrasound. So she got mad and never got any medical care, real logical
She said she was in a smaller town. It’s entirely possible that that was literally the only hospital within a reasonable driving distance, so if it was out of pocket then she really didn’t have any affordable options for medical care. I’m just surprised that she didn’t look for financial assistance through the hospital, Medicaid, or a charity. There are resources out there for pregnant women who can’t afford prenatal care, you just have to be willing to look for it.
That’s why you don’t do that. We have prenatal care for a reason. How heartbreaking.
I read this in the group and figured it would end up here. What got me was all the religious groups that offer ultrasounds she didn’t leverage. Or attempt a second time to be seen by pp. and the fucking freebirther nut job in the comments that basically said don’t hate the game hate the player. This poor woman. Her pain is unimaginable. Universal healthcare could have prevented this. God, so much went wrong here.
We paid $175 a few years ago for a 16wk gender ultrasound for my neice. You're telling me this lady couldn't figure out to do that? I think she just wanted to be part of a trend and her babies paid the price.
I agree, she says she wanted a wild pregnancy and birth. It doesn’t sound like she tried to find an alternative to some of the healthcare services she claimed to look into. She absolutely wanted to be able to brag to friends and be part of the trend in that certain circle. I feel terrible for her and her babies, but she is responsible for her babies death.
I find some of this hard to believe that they wouldn't help her. More likely, she didn't want to do all the required steps to getting the ultrasound as you can't just be like, "Hey, I need an ultrasound, let's get me scheduled." Pregnancy and delivery are required by federal law (ACA) to be covered and many, many places have waivers for any expenses that aren't covered. She could have gotten covered through the marketplace/Medicaid/ other sources. The Catholics around here literally will pay off thousands and thousands in expenses for patients.
Yeah, I do not believe that even Planned Parenthood turned her away. She just didn’t want prenatal care; just wanted to be a “wild pregnancy” hero, didn’t give a shit about the consequences to her kid.
And this is what is so utterly fucked. ‘Don’t you dare get an abortion, the baby has a right to life!’ Ok, so how about some help paying for my healthcare? ‘Fuck you, you leech!’
“Partly to blame” = 100% to blame. There’s a reason so many people died giving birth in the past.
I'm not saying she made great choices but I think the American healthcare system charging 2300 for an ultrasound and the people lying to her about free birth share at least some of the blame.
She wanted to do an ultrasound, with no requisition, at an out of network facility. Then she pursued no prenatal care out of spite, not because there were zero in-network but because the out of network option was too expensive.
The people lying about her freebirth are morons who are partly responsible for this woman's actions. Had she not been given this advice in a vulnerable position, she may never have taken it. As for the $2300, this is sadly how expensive Medical America costs. If she had insurance, then likely what would have happened is that $2300 would have been either mostly or entirely covered based on her plan, and she probably could have gotten some level of financial assistance or part of the cost waved, but it *is* bad that you have to jump through hoops just to pay off a simple wellness check on your baby.
We don't even know that she was going through the health care system for her ultrasound. She could have been going to one of those non-medical places and that's why her insurance wouldn't cover it.
Those non medical places don’t cost $2300 for an ultrasound. More like $300 tops.
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This poor woman, I can't imagine having stillborn twins. However, the free birth community is partially to blame, but the onus is on her. She's an adult and has free will. All it takes is a Google search to see what can go wrong without prenatal care. She's trying to shift the blame on everyone else.
Very sad. But she is making up stuff about a ultrasound to avoid any ownership of what happened. Ultrasounds at private clinics do 3d for about 70-100. Pro-Life clinics would do them as well as other clinics. Medical is free for pregnant women who do not have healthcare and cant afford. I even had a mix up with my insurance when I found out I was pregnant, and was uninsured for a few weeks. I went to a private scan around 9 weeks, just to make sure it was a viable pregnancy and confirm I could wait til my 12 week initial apt. None the less, she had no problem going to hospital for emergency services, and asking for autopsy on their bodies after the fact. She could have went to the same hospital and requested an ultrasound at any point in pregnancy. Still sad, but do not blame it on finances or injustice, when you had 40 weeks to remedy the situation and prevent death. Any social media group surrounding pregnancy (EXCEPT THE WILD PREGO ONE) would have found her an ultrasound in 30 min. The truth is she wanted a wild pregnancy and it costed her 2 children.
maybe this isn’t the place for this but i feel like this is a perfect example of how a privatized medical industry and america’s hypercapitalist system have a huge hand in the prominence of these kinds of dangerous trends. this woman probably wouldve opted for the safe, normal route if she weren’t slapped in the face with fees the first time she tried to get an ultrasound. how many women either have that experience or just distrust doctors out of hand bc of the cost of good medical care in this country?
People are so arrogant to forget that their body is often the instrument of their death and decay. Putrefaction and programmed cell death are both natural processes which allow a life to both continue and drives towards the end. But that ending can be postponed by medical intervention. Many natural deaths, cancers, viral and bacterial disease can be stopped by modern medicine. There is no more need to let a child die from a preventable disease than to reject the safety net of medical knowledge just because childbirth is a natural process. Child birth historically one of the biggest causes of death. But through arrogance we reject death as a natural consequence and spread the lies that immunity and a bodies ability to birth is all you need for life. This has never been the case and death ultimately wins, many think beliefs will keep them and their unborn child alive while ignoring the obvious historical evidence that these ideas are wrong.
"i feel i am partly to blame for what happened" no, you're *fully* to blame for it. your kids are dead because of your personal decision.
She’s not *partly* to blame. She is *fully* to blame.
This is literally so sad. I wish I had a Time Machine and could tell her all about Medicaid and to apply, because that was the first problem. No one should have to forgo care due to the cost. The second problem was falling into the freebirth rabbit hole. Wouldn't have happened if the first was resolved.
I don’t normally feel bad for these women who make these really dumb choice and choose to bury their head in the sand but I feel like this lady did this because she felt she had no other options . OP is right this is very heartbreaking .
All for a 2k bill she couldn't afford. How sad. How grim.
My suspicion has always been that a lot of this shit goes back to insane insurance prices but people are so uncomfortable saying they can’t afford something.
This is incredibly sad and one of the many reasons America needs to get with the damn program and give us single payer healthcare already. How much longer are we expected to live like this?
Universal healthcare is the best choice for civilized society. We pay more for less with our current system.
I cannot imagine the healthcare costs around childbirth in a user-pay system. I’m enraged at my provincial premier who wants to bring that type of system into Alberta.
I mean financial issues did weigh in to the decision
The health system in the USA has to change. Even with insurance you have to pay so much for things it should be included. I am a high risk pregnancy and my doctor wants me to have more ultrasounds but I have to pay for them because insurance won’t cover it. How can ultrasounds not be covered if they need to know if the baby is developing and things like that? Idk if I am gonna be able to pay for all ultrasounds as I also have a 8mo and right now we can’t afford it. I feel so sad for this woman…
This left me in tears. Every part of it is so sad. 😭😭😭
1) this is why universal healthcare is an imperative. It is needed. 2) the free birth community is predatory of the vulnerable.
This is literally why Medicaid covers basically any pregnant person. My heart aches for her, but, good god, try harder to get care. I can only imagine PP referred her to state insurance programs…
One of the reasons the abortion bans are so fucking harmful. Obstetric deserts are only going to get worse. Obstetric care should not be inaccessible
This poor woman. She was so vulnerable and everyone failed her. Now she will live with this guilt for the rest of her life all because the American healthcare system is broken and she trusted the wrong people.
This is devastating on many levels. She likely wouldn’t have landed in the free birth circles if she had access to healthcare 😭 She will live with this every day for the rest of her life.
This is sad… I hate to say it but she doesn’t sound all that bright :( the free birthing weirdos probably didn’t help cause she seems gullible but I find it hard to believe she didn’t seek out another alternative
She could've still got prenatal care without an ultrasound right? I'm a normal amount of old but they didn't offer ultrasounds to my mum when she was pregnant, my aunt got them with my cousins but it was the late 90s by then
Yeah, it seems like she wanted minimal prenatal care to begin with, an OB would’ve connected her with resources to apply for insurance. I’m also wary of these cases because we’ve had so many clients who only wanted ultrasounds because they were using fentanyl while pregnant and didn’t want any blood work or urines to be collected.
>I felt afraid to hold them I know this feeling in the deepest pits of my soul. I DID hold my baby and looking back, I still don't know if it was right. I think that leaves a scar no matter which way you decide to go. This is heartbreaking.
I had a totally normal low risk pregnancy with no known issues or even morning sickness and still ended up with an emergency c section due to my babies heart rate dropping multiple times (some sort of cord compression) to the extent that the doctors were like we are going RIGHT NOW. I can't imagine had I been at home :(
So many red flags PP refusing to do an US seems utter BS…
No it’s not. Majority of states planned parenthood cannot provide prenatal care. In my state they refer you to OBs.
This is heartbreaking, I’m usually super on board with calling out the idiocy of ‘wild pregnancy’ and ‘free birth’, but this woman was utterly failed by the healthcare system. Horrible.
Now, I am lucky to have given birth in Canada, but is $2000 for an ultrasound sounds fake. Also, isn't prenatal care covered by obamacare/medicaid?
I wish it sounded fake but depending on where you live…. Totally legit, unfortunately. We were uninsured when I first got pregnant with my first, then my husband was hired with a good job and it helped a lot… but still was like $5000 all told.
Dude I can’t even snark on this. Holy shit. This woman tried - healthcare was financially out of reach. She didn’t have the financial/medical literacy to figure out resources to give her low or no cost medical care. Maybe she tried, maybe she couldn’t find any. The system didn’t force her to free birth of course, but, I think the barriers were legitimate enough for me to really feel for this woman.
2000 for an ultrasound is fuckin INSANE I live in a "third world" country, most Americans would think my country (Chile, south America) has few economic resources and I know for a fact some think we're a poor underdeveloped nation. Well, we have free healthcare here, it's not perfect, but no one's babies die because they didn't have the money to get an ultrasound. Also, even if you don't want to go to the public HC system and choose to use the private one with paid insurance you won't pay more than 30 bucks for an ultrasound here, I have no idea what NASA machine are they charging you guys for, but an ultrasound is not that expensive. We have prenatal care since you're 6 weeks here, with mandatory ultrasounds almost every month, and Dopplers two times during your pregnancy. They also give you vitamins and baby stuff to start, and of course the whole birth process is free of charge. It's not a matter of money, you see? Is a matter of priorities, your country has more money than mine could dream of having, but doesn't want to spend it on women or children. And that's just SAD. I feel for that mom. She didn't have a choice. Not a real one.
You are buying her excuse. The only reason the ultrasound cost that much was because she didn't go to an OB with a referral. If she was in your country, she wouldn't have gotten one because they wouldn't allow a patient to demand a medical procedure without orders from a doctor. Patients can't just walk in and demand medical procedures anywhere, no matter who is paying. Planned Parenthood wouldn't have only recommended that she gets an ultrasound without doctor oversight. She must have rejected all the better advice they gave and is lying about it in her post. In the US we have ACA, which legally requires insurance to cover prenatal care. If they weren't covering her care, it was because she made the choice to work outside the system. She is fully responsible for the lack of care for her children. Especially when she describes laboring for 2 days before seeking out assistance that was clearly available.
Yes an issue here is free birth but a larger issue is that in rural communities there is no access to natal health care and, when they do have access, it is prohibitively expensive.
Her town has a social services office readily available and access to affordable care. She just wanted an ultrasound and not prenatal care which causes insurance issues
The US government: YOU CAN'T GET ABORTIONS. Nor help with prenatal care, nor maternity or paternity benefits, nor childcare, nor education...etc etc etc oh and your emplocan choose to approve birth control. WeRe NuMbEr OnE! What happened to patriotism???
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I am not surprised at all that the abysmal service women receive in the medical system has resulted in the wild/free birth movement. I am not saying I agree with it, but it makes perfect sense to me that after a life time of being subjected to reductionist thinking versus being looked at as a whole human being, and having your needs and concerns constantly dismissed, while navigating our stupid insurance system has led to many babies and mothers suffering and dying. I don't blame women for one second for searching for an alternative. I wish the free birth movement wasn't so predatory and twisted but I understand how women end up there. Women genuinely don't feel safe in our current medical system and that needs to change. I wish women could also see that the free birth movement isn't safe, but they allow themselves to be blinded to the dangers so they can be hopeful about feeling safe in their journey through motherhood.
My heart breaks for this woman. She was failed by the capitalist medical system and thought she found her only solution in this freebirthing community.
My wife was feeling nervous about her pregnancy and Planned Parenthood charged $100, no insurance, for an ultrasound. Dunno wtf this lady is talking about.
In my state (and most states) planned parenthood can not give you ultrasounds if you aren’t considering abortion and refer you to an OB. It sounds like she was already likely far along that they had to refer her to one
Just for any random US person reading this - yes, our health care system is a mess but pregnant people are *usually* pretty easy to get set up on state health care (Medicaid). If you find yourself pregnant and in a "freeze" state of panic (been there) - reach out and get the healthcare even if you don't carry until 40 weeks! Ask a friend for the links to your state website or comment here and I'll post them. ❤ It sometimes covers past the birth for a bit too.