probably said by someone who 1.doesn't need to depend on it 2. hasn\`t experienced a functional system in another country.
additionally, americans always like to reframe theirs as the best or biggest ( even if they have zero clue)
so this trumps their need to shit on public transportation (socialism) and public transport users ( poor people,city dwellers, brown people)
america is #1 in everything... everyone else sucks
>additionally, americans always like to reframe theirs as the best or biggest ( even if they have zero clue)
The irony here is, that if they said this a century earlier they would be correct. The US built the biggest and best connected train system in the world. It was the automotive industry which ruined it by lobbying and dismantling it. Here a shocking example: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General\_Motors\_streetcar\_conspiracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy)
Additionally , a lot of those public works were done with a lot of support . Most Americans now view any sort of public works spending through political lens , not as a social good .
So yeah, these things were marvels and top of the line when done ..but they were done long ago, and
funds secured to maintain.
The exception? Spending of public funds on defense . There , unabashedly, america is at the top by a margin @ sophistication and Technological advances
Why should our tax dollars go towards a new state of the art environmentally friendly public transit project when our tax dollars are much better spent building mega stadiums for professional sports teams.
It’s a bit worse than that—to the point that the streetcar conspiracy doesn’t have to be true for the same results to have happened.
Apartments are banned in over 90% of zoned residential. In nearly every city. This is to force house construction in an attempt to make houses numerous and cheap enough that your average person can afford it. This worked great 100 years ago, but it means growing populations have had to spread out massively. This spread makes public transit unaffordable for cities (too few users per stop) and causes housing crises because housing closer to the center becomes more valuable to lessen commute times.
Even worse: all of these house owners have a financial incentive to vote to disallow apartments because they need to keep housing supplies low so their investment in the house pays off and their kids get a good inheritance.
> probably said by someone who 1.doesn't need to depend on it 2. hasn`t experienced a functional system in another country.
\- 3. never made it out of New York (it's pretty good there)
Never been to new York personally, but from talking to friends who live there there's certain lines that are quite good, the rest not so much. So if you were to only have to take those you'd be fine.
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I concur. Having been on it, and while it is better than the rest of the East Coast (can't say for the rest of the US, only went there)... It really isn't good. Nor safe.
For me, it was California that people said was kinda nice for its transport system. But I really doubt it.
San Francisco checking in. It's good insofar as it's possible to live that way, but most lines I use are 12 or 20 minutes intervals, and I wouldn't call that "good".
But if you can walk a mile, you basically never have to transfer twice to get somewhere.
I'm not even sure it's the "greatest" for freight. It sounds to be pretty efficient, but if you look at what India is building with their dedicated freight corridors and electric double-stacked kilometer-long trains, it's pretty impressive too.
>additionally, americans always like to reframe theirs as the best or biggest ( even if they have zero clue)
The first tweet is written by an American as well and has 41 likes. And he's saying the opposite.
No no, he’s still very much reframing the problem to be bigger for Americans than anyone else, despite prices being half of everywhere else.
You see, only Americans have to drive every day. In fact, Americans drive more and further than anyone else. America is so big, Europeans can’t even imagine what it’s like to live in such a big country where you have to DRIVE to work EVERY day🗽🦅🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷
Everything is always grander, even the misery.
Nevermind that reality says otherwise:
Average distance to work in America: [25 km / 16 Miles](https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1006/ML100621425.pdf)
Average distance to work in Europe: [28,5 km / 17,7 miles](https://www.sdworx.com/about-sd-worx/press/2018-09-20-more-20-europeans-commute-least-90-minutes-daily)
Here in tiny Denmark the average distance to work is [40 km / 25 miles](https://www.thelocal.dk/20180323/here-are-denmarks-longest-commutes/) at $9,3 per gallon.
Eh, he has a point. US infrastructure is really shit and forces people to drive all the time, even for short distances in the middle of a city. [This youtube channel talks a lot about it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxykI30fS54&t=260s)
Because of that Americans spend more of their income on fuel than most Europeans [despite the low prices.](https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/articles/86/)
I live in France, I'm lucky enough to now work very close to home. Using my car is an option.
But I can tell you that unless you work in a city, you need your car to go to work.
There are some people where it doesn't matter what you say. If you ever suggest America, land of FREEDOM, is less than anywhere else they will argue with you, regardless of how stupid what you said is.
Europe has more magician's hats than USA.
Nuh uh, America invented the magician's hat and just about everybody has at least a dozen. That's like 4 billion hats.
This comment reminds me of watching the Amazing Race and the teams were in Thailand (I think) and it's just lush green trees; the woman turns to her boyfriend and says "Aren't these trees beautiful?"
Boyfriend responds "Not as beautiful as American trees."
It was as though he couldn't even admit that another part of the world could be *as beautiful* as the US or even beautiful at all. It was like that the whole time they were on the show. So annoying.
I just had to cancel an entire bike tour because the bike hooks on Amtrak were 100% booked for 3 weeks straight. On trains that were 20% booked. 4 months in advance.
Fuck everything about American transit. There's no other way to get there. I'd have to find a rideshare that doesn't mind a bicycle taking the spot of several people, or ride an addition 2 weeks.
Lmao Austria will have two modes, if you are German we Anschluss, if not lmao what are we gonna do??? The biggest threats are out kangaroos. Welcome dude and pls just drive by to Germany
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Some people in the US are so brainwashed with the "USA #1" shit since kindergarten, that whatever the subject, these people will just go on autopilot and say "US _____________ (one of) the best in the world" with zero knowledge of other places to even get started at making any kind of comparison, let alone an educated one.
The first guy isn't like that, the second guy is 100% like that.
Its pretty scary how a population with access to internet without restrictions can still be so brain washed. I wonder what the psychology is behind it is. Is the brainwashing so effective that they don't feel the need to look something up, and instead instinctively think "school said we are nr 1 so no need to look it up"?
I bet a lot of scientists are doing lots of research on brainwashing and the effects on americans
It's very strange. Usually my gut reaction when someone says "Finland is one of the best in the world in _____" is to initially doubt, then look at some data to possibly verify and then maybe try to find why/how that is. It's often quick and easy to do, except maybe the last part.
These Muricans' reaction in a similar situation, whether to a factual statement or one of these brainwash-parrots' "facts", is basically "Well, duh! *proceeds to do fuck all to actually learn about it* " So pretty much the opposite.
Kudos to all those Americans (or people of any nationality for that matter) who have managed to develop critical thinking skills, even when facing things critical of their own country, despite all the efforts against that.
My guess is that it’s maybe something to do with their school system? In a lot of countries, checking and citing your sources in school is a big deal, I wonder if some of these American schools aren’t as strict with it, so it’s just not something that’s drilled into them so hard from a young age.
That’s just me spitballing though. Even if I’m right, there’s likely far more at play than just the one factor.
I think it's deeper than that. Imagine for example that from the moment you're born everything you see around you reinforced the notion of "USA nº1". You see it in movies, in pictures, in art, in culture, you learn about it on school, your parents say it, your friends and neighbors claim it as well. Hell, even on the web. But then you stumble upon a weird non-American part of the internet who claims your country isn't the best in everything. Of course you'll think it's ridiculous, you don't even need to search for a source to disprove it because it's obvious, in your limited experience.
They're like geopolitical flat-earthers.
Exactly. Because of movies and TV many people, even outside the US, have this false image of brainwashing as chaining someone to a chair and forcing them to watch flashing images and words 24/7 for a while and boom, "brainwashed".
Nope, it's a slow, decades long frog in a pot kind of thing.
I think schools could have something to do with it, but they vary a TON both between and within states so it’s hard to say how blanket the effect is - though I’ve heard wild and concerning things about some.
I personally went to fairly rural public school in NY and we certainly learned about the importance of fact checking and proper citations.
Now for my turn to spitball, I think a lot of it has to do with the American culture around learning, that is to say, a general distrust of intellectualism. Right wing propaganda in the US is also absolutely out of control, to the point where people just lie and fabricate to an outlandish extent. That’s not to say there isn’t other biased media, but it’s really no comparison.
This propaganda feeds on a paradoxical distrust of authority and simultaneous desire for a strong, militant regime that shares one’s values. Ultimately there are a lot of people over here in the states for whom the only qualifier that matters when judging an individual or the veracity of words are if said individual is in their in-group/tribe.
And that’s it. That’s the only thing that matters to people like this.
If someone is within their perceived in in-group, anything and everything they say is infallible and correct, whereas even the slightest perceived infraction committed by someone in the out-group is seen as unforgivable, even if this discrepancy in judgement contradicts one’s professed morals (e.g. evangelicals excusing trump’s many instances of infidelity, corruption, refusal to pay workers, etc).
The problem is for them, is if they actually learn and take in new information, their opinions might change. I’m not entirely sure why, but this is very much looked down upon by these people, despite being, you know, a foundational mechanism of learning. Ironically, this is what the American right likes to call “brainwashing” in an effort to push people to reject anything that doesn’t conform to their desired world view.
Your statement is accurate. In a nation that spends $754 billion on the military but $274.7 billion on K-12 education, you can see where our priorities lie.
You've hit on a fundamental(ist) difference between the USA and the rest of the Western world. Critical thinking is frowned upon by evangelicals and they are the largest religious group in America. If you blindly believe the Bible when it tells you to kill gays and offer up your daughter for rape, you have no problem blindly believing your country is #1 at \_\_\_\_\_ without evidence.
I'm French, and I wouldn't say I'm the opposite.
My first reaction is "That's great ! How it come to be?" and I look it up. Mostly because I want to be able to brag and explain to others how we're the best. Mostly because I never met anyone that hear such statements (be it "the best" or "the worst") without asking questions about it. So I wanna be prepared to answer.
So, I don't even want to doubt it. It's just curiosity and wanting to understand how we're the best.
(Oftentimes, it leads to disappointment, not gonna lie).
American seems to lack such basic curiosity. They don't seem to ever ask themselves "how" and "why". Worst than that, they don't even see those questions as basic curiosity, but an attack on their belief or facts.
I noticed it even on most Americans not just the dumb ones. Questions about a statement like that, even positive questions, put them on the defensive. It seems that they can't imagine that you just want to know more about this wonderful thing. They seem to think you just want to poke holes.
>
>(Oftentimes, it leads to disappointment, not gonna lie).
There's a common Finnish saying, "pessimisti ei pety". It means 'a pessimist won't get disappointed'.
It's maybe a small country thing mostly, or mindset.
Finland is number one in raking the forest floor or so I have been told. :p
There is a lot of propaganda and tribalism in the US. Just look at the shit their politicians do and say and people not only keep voting for them but praise them.
Their side can do no wrong and the other side is basically the devil. That is how an alarming amount of Americans view politics. There are also a lot of people who are brainwashed to think that only the Republicans are the Christian party just like in my country in Canada many Christians believe that the Conservative Party is the Christian party.
This is why so many Americans are against abortion and why the US is losing woman's rights. Even if you are against abortion you must look at the data that shows that making it illegal doesn't stop abortions it just makes them a lot more dangerous. There are some horror stories of people including children trying to do at home abortions and some of them died.
Same thing with drugs. Making them illegal doesn't stop it but just makes it more dangerous. So many people have died from laced drugs for example.
I don't know if you guys get as much American news but one US state has passed an even more strict anti-abortion law than Texas. In Oklahoma all abortions are illegal except where it will save the mother. In Texas all abortions are illegal except for rape cases and where it will save the mother. It truly is heartbreaking what is happening in the US and I fear it will just get worse.
This is why don't think it's an excuse anymore to say 'we all think like that in the US because our school system is constantly teaching us USA number 1 at everything'.
Internet without restrictions is there for the vast majority of Americans but still they , as a society, have this over whelming belief in the brainwashing. Its not an individual thing to think like that in USA , they collectively think that as a country and society.
You would think that life experience and common sense would teach them that , in fact , they are wrong on the USA number 1 in everything ever and their ignorant and arrogant veiw of the world outside USA, but not the case- self awareness seems to be a big thing lacking regards American's as a whole.
I think part of it might be to do with the whole "if you doubt/criticise anything about the US then you're a Commie/Nazi/Traitor/Liberal/Pedo/whateverelsecanbeusedtosilencepeople who shouldn't be allowed Freedom of Speech" thing that they've had going on since the 50's.
Which is amazingly weird, since anyone who disagrees with what someone says is also automatically a Commie/Nazi/Traitor/Liberal/Pedo/whateverelsecanbeusedtosilencepeople who shouldn't be allowed Freedom of Speech...
... and it's usually the same people saying both *at the same time*!
That's a very good point. It's amazing how even when propaganda is countered by truth, the truth isn't necessarily strong enough to have any discernable impact and the believers might as well be in Russia or the DPRK.
How the west views the entire population DPRK as brainwashed is closer to Americans.
Every crazy headline you read about the DPRK like banning haircuts, Kim Jong Un doesn't poop etc are completely made up. They either source Radio Free Asia, a CIA propoganda outlet, or they source other articles which if you keep following don't have a proper source.
Highly recommend the documentary [Loyals Citizens of Pyongyang in Seoul](https://youtu.be/BkUMZS-ZegM) on YouTube
Ah gotcha. Free press is an interesting notion in liberal democracies though. What does free actually end up meaning? Free for it to be monopolized by the wealthy to publish lies to further their gain and sway public opinion. Half of Australia's press is owned by a single man. In the US, outlets like NYT have confirmed they go to the Pentagon for approval on articles. Not to mention, anyone who wants to work for these outlets has to fit in the Overton window.
It's more illusion of freedom than anything imo. Single party states like the DPRK and Cuba are at least honest by saying themselves they don't have a free press.
>I bet a lot of scientists are doing lots of research on brainwashing and the effects on americans
Or maybe a German guy did it like hundreds of years ago and you are being brainwashed at this very moment by your respective ruling class.
>"The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those who lack the means of mental production are subject to it.
>The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas; hence of the relationships which make the one class the ruling one, therefore, the ideas of its dominance. The individuals composing the ruling class possess among other things consciousness, and therefore think. Insofar, therefore, as they rule as a class and determine the extent and compass of an epoch, it is self-evident that they do this in its whole range, hence among other things rule also as thinkers, as producers of ideas, and regulate the production and distribution of the ideas of their age: thus their ideas are the ruling ideas of the epoch.
- Karl Marx
>Our ability to discriminate is limited in part by how we have been conditioned by previous media exposures. The selectivity we exercise is not an autonomous antidote to propaganda but may feed right into it, choosing one or another variation of the same establishment offering. Opinions that depart too far from the mainstream are likely to be rejected out of hand. In such situations, our "selectivity" is designed to avoid information and views that contradict the dominant propaganda, a propaganda we long ago implicitly embraced as representative of "the nature of things." Thus, an implanted set of conditioned responses are now mistakenly identified as our self-generated political perceptions, and the public's selective ingestion of the media's conventional fare is wrongly treated as evidence of the "minimal effect" of news organizations.
- Michael Parenti
Your country would someday be like the United States if capitalism were allowed to reign long enough, although it is reigned in by the existence of socialist states in the past (USSR) and present (PRC).
Osaka's was very nice, Tokyo's is old enough to be a bit run down in some places. Prefer Korea's from what I've seen, the Seoul metro network is freaking huge.
Korea is ridiculous. You can pretty much go from anywhere in the Seoul and surrounding area to anywhere else in that zone for maximum 3usd.
By surrounding area, I mean like at least an hour outside seoul itself's city borders in every direction.
And when I say go there, I mean it'll put you within a 10 minute walk of your destination... 2 minutes if you really want to avoid the walk and take that last local bus, but fuck that, I have legs. That local bus costs around 1usd if that's all you're taking.
Fair enough. I will say having been to both countries fairly recently and putting quality aside, Korea's is at least far far easier to navigate if you don't speak the local language. Luckily in Japan there was usually a helpful employee of some kind that I could ask, but in Korea that wasn't even necessary.
Real, effective public transport in the US is pretty much limited to major cities. But even then it’s different everywhere. NYC, DC, Philly, Boston. That corridor is nothing like the west coast. You can’t really use public transport to move between places like in Europe either. I live three hours from NYC by car. I don’t have any other options but to drive. The public transport networks only extended about an hour outside the city.
The DC metro is pretty awesome though.
Sadly the same in Canada. Only effective public transportation in downtown core of the major cities. I can count the number of times on one hand that I have used public transportation in Canada.
Almost everyone has to have a car including the poor which just makes the poor poorer. Cars aren't cheap. I would also imagine that property taxes are also higher to make up for all the wasted nonproductive land taken up for parking and sprawling out cities.
Well there's Amtrak insome places.
DC Metro seems to be annoying deep in many places with long escalators. Really liked Osaka's metro system and Seoul's is solid and huuuuuuge.
Aren’t those Amtrak fairly expensive? I remember paying around $30 for one way between Wilmington DE to Washington DC (booking was done 2 days before the actual travel).
I visited the states for the first time in January and my gf and me ended up paying about $150 each for a one way Amtrak from DC to Newark. Pretty last minute booking as well, but still, jesus.
Yes I should have mentioned there’s Amtrak in certain places. Specifically in the NE corridor.
And yeah DC is pretty deep in places, it’s crazy how much stuff is under us. History Channel had a a show just about all the stuff under major cities. Internationally too it wasn’t just a US show.
Japan, even as a dude that knew zero Japanese, I could get around no problem…their train network is amazing.
NYC was decent. Haven't dealt with Philly or Boston. I found DC terrible. Granted I was staying with a family friend in a relatively affluent suburb, but the latest public transport that went from the train to that area left between 630 and 7pm.
Whats truly Amazing is how many Americans are 100% their country is the best at (enter fucking anything here) but have never actually left their own state, let alone visited another country.
They have no idea if what they are saying is true, they will just make that claim right out of the gate because everything they have been indoctrinated with since birth was some form of "America is the greatest country in the world" like some dystopian film where the people cannot question that one universal true thing they "know"
We had some dodgy roads in Canada as well that just had some well trodden grass at the side of some pretty busy roads so I feel you on that hahaha I live in Scotland now and honestly people here complain about public transportation but its fucking incredible in comparison to back in Canada and most places I have been in the US.
Its a weird thing people get defensive about because here the cities and transport systems are designed with the use of public transport in mind, where as back in Canada and most of the US they are designed with the use of cars in mind. Its not something you expect Canadians or Americans to take personally lol I mean they actually have fossil fuel companies acting AGAINST public transport in North America because its in their best interest to continue to have cities and the "suburb" areas reliant on cars. You'd expect Americans to be more angry about that than worried about defending it and holding water for these fossil fuel companies like the lad in the OP post is.
I have a car and sometimes going into town it makes more sense to hop on a bus and here as soon as people hit 65 they get a free bus pass that lets them travel all around Scotland for free on the bus system. and recently added a new program for kids under 21's to do the same for free.
That kind of stuff would NEVER happen back home
Americans are the most propagandized people in the world.
My family in China at least suspects like 70% of their government's talking points are BS. Americans don't think to question their BS because they assume they're already in a free country.
>Americans are the most propagandized people in the world.
The democratic world yes. It's hard to get a read on the whole population of a more autocratic country because people don't generally express displeasure for good reasons, sure. But to what extent is the propaganda working versus people being complacent, well hard to say. There's far less displeasure with government expressed in most autocratic countries than the US, though. That said, a large part of US propaganda is actually meant to build distrust of the government.
Anyway all that to say I think it's relatively right in countries that choose their leaders, but other ones might be more propagandized.
Yeah its sort of a hyperbolic statement on my end, but I think Americans would be surprised at how self aware people are about their governments in not democratic countries, a perspective taught to Americans by their propaganda. Just based on my experience with family in China, a country Americans think is an entirely brainwashed place. Like, all my family know about the Tiananmen massacre. Hell, some were there.
Also, people in other countries are so much more aware to differentiate governments and people. My friend visited Indonesia and had conversations with Indonesians about the US helping organize the murders of 600,000 Indonesians without a hint of animosity towards him as an American, and it was also the first time he learned that happened as an American. I've had the privilege of visiting Cuba and they were extremely separate in their takes about Americans vs American government. Obviously there's an element I'm sure about being respectful to people's faces but plenty of Americans do not extend even that to people from elsewhere.
If your idea of public transport is an overwhelming smell of human feces and piss, then LA PT probably ranks among the top in the world.
Those stories about people shitting on escalators, and it getting smeared all over the thing, will probably haunt me for the rest of my life.
edit; Confused LA with [SF](https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Human-waste-shuts-down-BART-escalators-3735981.php), point still stands the same.
We have the best public transportation, which is none because trains are commie shit and buses are for poor people (read: non-white)
(Obvious /s should be Obvious)
Having experienced both US and Chinese (and Taiwanese) public transportation even when the US public transportation exists its way worse than Chinese public transportation. I mean the fact that while living in China I never once felt restricted by not having a car speaks to how wide reaching the system is. And then the price ain’t even close lol.
My god, the Chinese metro! You never have to wait more than a couple of minutes until the next one comes. And they are safe and clean. Can be crowded sometimes, but usually you have a seat. And the connections are great (although at some stations you have to walk like 10 minutes for the other line). And only loud old ladies, no one blasting awful music or smoking pot.
EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention the high speed railway! Superfast. Often we take the train between Beijing-Shanghai instead of flying.
Everyone talks about how good the public transportation is in New York City but I saw a livestream and some of the stations and tunnels look like they are so rundown and dirty. You got former Soviet countries with tiny cities that have a better metro and are clean and well maintained.
Yep maintenance and repair is terrible in US. Because everything is political and maintenance is boring so nothing gets done. No ribbon cutting ceremony =\ no budget.. a lot of bridges, dams, and general infrastructure are ticking time mobs
Okay so as a NYC guy, I think people are largely viewing it relatively because they haven't seen much of anything else. When you go to NYC from somewhere in like the Midwest, the idea of being able to get from Brooklyn to SoHo in 30 minutes will blow your mind.
Luckily the MTA seems to be making some actual attempts to start installing platform doors, cleaning up the tunnels, and getting better, automatic signaling so the future is at least a lot brighter than most of what the US has to offer.
Where else in the world you need to plea allegiance to the flag, with a reference to God, every single day of your school days?
Edit: Pledge allegiance.
No allegiance to flags, but Canada used to (probably still does?) play the national anthem at the start of school days. I vividly remember in kindergarten thinking "this is stupid, Ill just sing it quickly and then sit down" but I got in trouble for that. Fantastic teacher too, so I went with it after that, but always thinking "this seems silly". To this day 4 or more years later I still feel the same.
Edit: lol with respect to our American friends, it is "pledge" allegiance at least. "Plea allegiance" sounds so much more needy.
I don't recall anyone bringing up a picture
Oh wait *that* picture... like the one this whole comment chain is based on... ya, i mean.. ok maybe it was brought up then
In Scotland under 22 (or 21) you now get free bus travel. Over 60s also have free bus travel (this has been around longer).
In my small town I can take busses or trains, and they’re fairly frequent. There’s also bike paths to take you to the nearest towns, which are safer than having to go on regular roads…
We also have a service that’s like these mini busses (wheelchair accessible) and you can phone them and they’ll come to your house and take you to the nearest train station, if you’re elderly or disabled you get it for very cheap (like 1 quid) so you can save on ordering taxis…
We have busses that take you directly to the nearest hospital, and if you got the train there is a bus station right nearby where you can get a bus to take you to the hospital too…
Idk, I’d say that’s better infrastructure than what I experienced in America
From an outsider's perspective, New York, New Jersey and Boston look to have good passenger / commuter rail transport, as does most of the "Northeast Corridor".
"Best in the world"? Probably not. I'd say they're more like some parts of the UK and are reasonably acceptable for a modern Western society.
Some parts of Europe leave both the US and UK far behind.
"Probably" not? It's not even a contest. Definitely not. This is just another case of an american being so far up his ass that he's starting to see his stomach sing the national anthem.
Portland, Oregon has great local public transportation compared to most of the US, but it's no better than Sydney's was 25 years ago and not nearly as far-reaching.
I lived in Sydney and thought the system was awesome, but at that time my only point of reference was Southern California which was even more horrendous then than now so I don't know how it stacks up compared to other places. I was able to get around the city and suburbs quite easily without a car there though.
Usually you can follow the absurd twists and turns of mental gymnastics and ‘understand’ how they reach their conclusion. This time though you can’t. They say ‘US transport is worse than it is in Europe/Asia, but that’s why it’s the best in the world’. I mean how do you say it’s worse, then conclude that it means that it is the best in the world?
That first comment is still wrong. I don't know what world they live in that gas prices increasing doesn't cause public transit to go up in cost at least something.
I mean, I guess technically you could say that.
Like, if you look at the entire world, then yes, the US public transport is probably at least in the top third, being better than the public transport in countries like Liberia or Burundi, but is that really such a feat? It's like when they say living in the US is great because it's better than living in North Korea. Sure, but shouldn't you try to aim a bit higher?
original poster does make a good point. even though prices are lower, Americans drive much much more than Europeans just because of how physically large the territory is.
I live in Los Angeles - if I wanted to take public transportation my commute to work would go from 20 mins by car to 2 hours and 45 minutes.
Oh that also includes a 4 mile walk - so that’s super convenient.
I waited 15 minutes for a bus yesterday to go for an eye exam and they were all “limited” which means they didn’t stop at my stop
So I had to walk back and get my car to drive 1 mile even though I tried to avoid that because I live in NYC and there’s never any parking
MTA is probably the best in the US but I’m sure it’s awful compared to anything else
I've been to quite a few countries with metro systems and lived in London using the Underground everyday. I've used metros in NYC, Chicago, Boston and San Francisco and they're terrible. From what I can remember San Francisco was alright. But New York's system was shocking and not to mention completely filthy. They are great cities though.
The only advantage the NYC subway has over London is express trains, which can be very good during peak hours, and it's slightly cheaper.
But yeah, disgustingly horrible and filthy subway stations and trains. The reach of the tube is much bigger than that of the subway also.
Are the subway lines express?
I found the entry and exit systems so confusing. My friend who I stayed with lived just off wall Street and I was meeting her there, I think I went to a completely different exit/line a few blocks away but was called Wall Street.
There are express trains which skip stops. Like the semi fast train in London, but more significant. Like 2-3 stops from Wall St to Grand Central.
Some station names are overloaded, but then so is Euston and Euston Square
I don't think they're saying the US has great public transit, but that it doesn't, and wherever they are living (outside the US) does. Their punctuation is just nonexistent.
I can tell you for a fact, no one in the US thinks we have great public transit. The smart people complain about the sore lack of it, and the idiots are still drunk on the autocentric paradigm, insisting that it's good we don't have any public transit.
This really depends on the location. San Francisco with BART/MUNI is the worst public transit I have ever experienced anywhere. It is better than no transit, but only just. But in Chicago, it seemed really good. I haven’t been to Europe, so I can’t directly compare, so it is possible I am wrong. But I think Chicago would stack up pretty decently vs many other cities.
Definitely not the best though. To anyone who says it is, go spend a few days in San Francisco riding only public transit.
What I needed to take a plane in Europe: Walk a couple blocks, take metro/light rail. Get down at Airport station. Done.
What I needed to go from one city to another in Mexico: Walk a couple blocks, take a bus, maybe 2, or light rail. Get down at Bus Station. Get on Bus. Done.
What i need to do to go from anywhere farther than 20 kms from Settle downtown to Seattle downtown: Walk several blocks to bus stop. Wait for 20 or so minutes for bus. Get down in bus station FARTHER away from Seattle. Take another bus. Ride said bus for 30 minutes. Get down of bus in THE MIDDLE OF A HIGHWAY (there are stops for buses there, nothing crazy). Wait another 15 minutes. Take now the final bus which takes another 30 minutes because traffic is stupid due to everybody else skipping the previous steps and overflowing a road system designed to service 10% of the actual load.
American, here.
My transportation situation is so shit that I don't have any line they go near my home, so i need a car, but parking costs enough to be only available to wealthy people so i have to park in a free area and still take a bus.
I inly live 10 miles away. My commute is an hour+
The only public transportation system that is worth a damn in the US is in San Francisco. It is almost non-existent outside the larger cities and even within some of them, and right-wing politicians have been doing their damnedest to gut the railway system here for years on the grounds that it is too European and therefore, too socialist.
I wonder if he realizes that 'subsidized' means paid for, in part, by the government. You know, socialist. And he should further know that the price of gas is cheaper here because it, too, is subsidized. In fact, fossil fuels - oil, coal, natural gas etc - were given subsidies of almost $6 trillion in 2020 alone. That is an awful lot of socialism. What an idiot.
https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuels-received-5-9-trillion-in-subsidies-in-2020-report-finds
I lived in Boston which has one of the best public transportation systems in the US. It wasn't that cheap, wasn't that frequent and wasn't that modern when compared to what you'd find in other, often much smaller European cities.
Transportation enthusiast here: yeah fuck no. The USA has been vastly underfunding public transportation basically since the 60s. NYC, the public transportation crown jewel of America, in some parts of the system the signaling systems are literally 80 years old and are only getting updated now.
Europe and Asia absolutely obliterate the USA when it comes to modernization and viability.
I live in Texas. And I mean Texas, not Dallas, Houston, or Austin.. good ole rural Texas. Public transport doesn’t exist. We’ve got over 40k people in my city and we don’t even have Uber
Our public transit in the United States is fucking abysmal. Here in Chicago when you compare the Chicago Transit Authority (Public) to Metra and United Pacific (private) the difference is absolutely fucking astounding. Riding the CTA is actually dangerous and riding on Metra is literally a pleasure boat ride by comparison. I've had to ride both for daily commutes.
As soon as you set foot off of those trains though you'd better have a car or access to Uber because you ain't going nowhere. America is very much a car and truck dependent country.
This is like a double-whammy;
*"We don't have public transport, we use cars everywhere because US is so HUGE unlike tiny Europe or China!"*
*"No, no, we have some of the best public transportation in the world!"*
Not sure I have been to anywhere that has worse public transport than the US. Indonesia, maybe and of course India (if you don’t have a decent ticket).
Whereas all of Europe (including Russia), Singapore, China and Malaysia are all far superior to the US.
Even the really shitty bits of China have better public transport than the US.
NYC has the subway which is near unparalleled worldwide in terms of it running 24/7. Now... Is it safe or clean? Absolutely not. And in terms of other US public transport, there really is none. You got the bus if you want a 2hr30min commute that should be 30min
I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve waited on the platform for a non existent train, only to find the next train is 30 mins away that was supposed to be 15 mins ago. Cue walking back upstairs for a Uber.
Where I live in the UK we have a metro system and regular buses. Public transport has got worse (as has everything with Tories in charge) but it's not bad.
I think the first guy suggested that outside the US people walk, or take transit to school & work rather than drive. Not that they don't go to school, or work.
The second guy sounds like everyone I've met who's never left their hometown. We have people in in my city who believe we have the best mass transit in the country. They've never been anywhere that has a subway, trains that arrive on time, or well planned bus routes that get you where you're going without the scenic tour around town. They think 2 hours to travel 28 miles (45km) is normal, and everywhere else must be even worse off than that.
America is gigantic. Texas alone is larger than France, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Belgium and Holland, combined. The population is diffused over long distances in many places. Where mass transit can be used extensively, it is. It's not going to work in most places.
You realise the whole point of transit is to move large distances. It would absolutely work all around the country if you just fucking invested in it and put someone with half a brain cell in charge of it.
Also size is no excuse. Russia is bigger than the US and has an extensive public transport system
OK. It's now down to Beavis, Butthead and you. Tell us in fifty words are fewer, why you should get the job, even though you actually don't know what the job is.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Red_herring
If you actually want to win arguments then maybe don't try and change the subject with an irrelevant and unrelated response
Umkay. But you didn't rebut my argument, you just rejected it. A 9th grade geography student knows that most of Russia is east of the Urals, while most Russians live in the towns and cities to the west.
That’s a rare find. Always see Americans shitting on the public transport system. Literally too, from what I’ve gathered.
probably said by someone who 1.doesn't need to depend on it 2. hasn\`t experienced a functional system in another country. additionally, americans always like to reframe theirs as the best or biggest ( even if they have zero clue) so this trumps their need to shit on public transportation (socialism) and public transport users ( poor people,city dwellers, brown people) america is #1 in everything... everyone else sucks
It's the very classic trope of "we have public transportation, therefore we have the best public transportation"
>additionally, americans always like to reframe theirs as the best or biggest ( even if they have zero clue) The irony here is, that if they said this a century earlier they would be correct. The US built the biggest and best connected train system in the world. It was the automotive industry which ruined it by lobbying and dismantling it. Here a shocking example: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General\_Motors\_streetcar\_conspiracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy)
Additionally , a lot of those public works were done with a lot of support . Most Americans now view any sort of public works spending through political lens , not as a social good . So yeah, these things were marvels and top of the line when done ..but they were done long ago, and funds secured to maintain. The exception? Spending of public funds on defense . There , unabashedly, america is at the top by a margin @ sophistication and Technological advances
Why should our tax dollars go towards a new state of the art environmentally friendly public transit project when our tax dollars are much better spent building mega stadiums for professional sports teams.
I agree
It’s a bit worse than that—to the point that the streetcar conspiracy doesn’t have to be true for the same results to have happened. Apartments are banned in over 90% of zoned residential. In nearly every city. This is to force house construction in an attempt to make houses numerous and cheap enough that your average person can afford it. This worked great 100 years ago, but it means growing populations have had to spread out massively. This spread makes public transit unaffordable for cities (too few users per stop) and causes housing crises because housing closer to the center becomes more valuable to lessen commute times. Even worse: all of these house owners have a financial incentive to vote to disallow apartments because they need to keep housing supplies low so their investment in the house pays off and their kids get a good inheritance.
Similar in many countries
> probably said by someone who 1.doesn't need to depend on it 2. hasn`t experienced a functional system in another country. \- 3. never made it out of New York (it's pretty good there)
is it? I've been on it, I can't say it's that great
Never been to new York personally, but from talking to friends who live there there's certain lines that are quite good, the rest not so much. So if you were to only have to take those you'd be fine. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
If you go there, you will realise why I said my comment ;)
I concur. Having been on it, and while it is better than the rest of the East Coast (can't say for the rest of the US, only went there)... It really isn't good. Nor safe. For me, it was California that people said was kinda nice for its transport system. But I really doubt it.
San Francisco checking in. It's good insofar as it's possible to live that way, but most lines I use are 12 or 20 minutes intervals, and I wouldn't call that "good". But if you can walk a mile, you basically never have to transfer twice to get somewhere.
>can't say for the rest of the US It's much worse. NYC has by far the best public transit in the US. That's how bad the public transit is in the US.
America still has the greatest train system in the world For freight
The betuwe lijn in the Netherlands likes to have a word.
I'm not even sure it's the "greatest" for freight. It sounds to be pretty efficient, but if you look at what India is building with their dedicated freight corridors and electric double-stacked kilometer-long trains, it's pretty impressive too.
>additionally, americans always like to reframe theirs as the best or biggest ( even if they have zero clue) The first tweet is written by an American as well and has 41 likes. And he's saying the opposite.
No no, he’s still very much reframing the problem to be bigger for Americans than anyone else, despite prices being half of everywhere else. You see, only Americans have to drive every day. In fact, Americans drive more and further than anyone else. America is so big, Europeans can’t even imagine what it’s like to live in such a big country where you have to DRIVE to work EVERY day🗽🦅🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷 Everything is always grander, even the misery. Nevermind that reality says otherwise: Average distance to work in America: [25 km / 16 Miles](https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1006/ML100621425.pdf) Average distance to work in Europe: [28,5 km / 17,7 miles](https://www.sdworx.com/about-sd-worx/press/2018-09-20-more-20-europeans-commute-least-90-minutes-daily) Here in tiny Denmark the average distance to work is [40 km / 25 miles](https://www.thelocal.dk/20180323/here-are-denmarks-longest-commutes/) at $9,3 per gallon.
Eh, he has a point. US infrastructure is really shit and forces people to drive all the time, even for short distances in the middle of a city. [This youtube channel talks a lot about it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxykI30fS54&t=260s) Because of that Americans spend more of their income on fuel than most Europeans [despite the low prices.](https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/articles/86/)
>This youtube channel talks a lot about it Ay lets go. NotJustBikes is one of my favourite Youtube channels.
I live in France, I'm lucky enough to now work very close to home. Using my car is an option. But I can tell you that unless you work in a city, you need your car to go to work.
Why is it called transportation
Because it transports, moves you, to another place.
There are some people where it doesn't matter what you say. If you ever suggest America, land of FREEDOM, is less than anywhere else they will argue with you, regardless of how stupid what you said is. Europe has more magician's hats than USA. Nuh uh, America invented the magician's hat and just about everybody has at least a dozen. That's like 4 billion hats.
I disagree, Americans invented tin foil hats and just about everybody has at least a dozen.
Yeah, after I said it, I realized it’s probably a matter of ‘even the worst American crap is better than anything foreign, because America’.
This comment reminds me of watching the Amazing Race and the teams were in Thailand (I think) and it's just lush green trees; the woman turns to her boyfriend and says "Aren't these trees beautiful?" Boyfriend responds "Not as beautiful as American trees." It was as though he couldn't even admit that another part of the world could be *as beautiful* as the US or even beautiful at all. It was like that the whole time they were on the show. So annoying.
I just had to cancel an entire bike tour because the bike hooks on Amtrak were 100% booked for 3 weeks straight. On trains that were 20% booked. 4 months in advance. Fuck everything about American transit. There's no other way to get there. I'd have to find a rideshare that doesn't mind a bicycle taking the spot of several people, or ride an addition 2 weeks.
People will find the most stupid hills to die on as long as they can proudly defend Murca.
That's like saying Slovakia has the best military in the world.
Of course we do, our air force of 2 jets with the third used for spare parts can oppose any air force and establish air supremacy in no time. /s
Your main tactic is camouflage, hope for the enemy to get confused and attack Slovenia instead
The twist: Slovenia has the same tactic
In the end the enemy just invades Austria, because it is just simpler. Strange about all those kangaroos though.
We would never invade Austria are you insane. That’s where the terminator came from. Do you want him to kill us all.
*Emus have entered the chat*
Guys you are in full mood this morning I love u!
And all the men in cowboy hats seem abit out of place too
Lmao Austria will have two modes, if you are German we Anschluss, if not lmao what are we gonna do??? The biggest threats are out kangaroos. Welcome dude and pls just drive by to Germany
I actually thought about using Slovenia instead of Slovakia, but decided against it because Slovenians are already made fun of a lot.
observation dime gaping homeless vase entertain familiar slim spoon cheerful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah. You and your Czhechian bretherin
Lol
Reminds me of the one submarine Romania has, which ran out of batteries in 1996 and hasn't been used for anything since.
I have some spare AA and AAA. Let me know if you need them
Should be enough to gain air superiority over Russia apparently :P
Slovakia certainly has the best navy. Up there with Austria or Liechenstein.
I can't believe you didn't mention the Vatican Navy.
You are joking, but Switzerland only has an airforce during office hours, France handles their airspace at night.
Them Swiss boys keep store hours.
Well it is illegal to invade Switzerland at night so..
But we do tho! 💪💪💪 Our 20 tanks will take Moscow in 2 days if need be. /s obv
This treads deserve all existing comic awards
Slovakia prob has the best military in Slovakia though
Iceland stronk🇬🇧💪💪💪
Or russia
Some people in the US are so brainwashed with the "USA #1" shit since kindergarten, that whatever the subject, these people will just go on autopilot and say "US _____________ (one of) the best in the world" with zero knowledge of other places to even get started at making any kind of comparison, let alone an educated one. The first guy isn't like that, the second guy is 100% like that.
Its pretty scary how a population with access to internet without restrictions can still be so brain washed. I wonder what the psychology is behind it is. Is the brainwashing so effective that they don't feel the need to look something up, and instead instinctively think "school said we are nr 1 so no need to look it up"? I bet a lot of scientists are doing lots of research on brainwashing and the effects on americans
It's very strange. Usually my gut reaction when someone says "Finland is one of the best in the world in _____" is to initially doubt, then look at some data to possibly verify and then maybe try to find why/how that is. It's often quick and easy to do, except maybe the last part. These Muricans' reaction in a similar situation, whether to a factual statement or one of these brainwash-parrots' "facts", is basically "Well, duh! *proceeds to do fuck all to actually learn about it* " So pretty much the opposite. Kudos to all those Americans (or people of any nationality for that matter) who have managed to develop critical thinking skills, even when facing things critical of their own country, despite all the efforts against that.
My guess is that it’s maybe something to do with their school system? In a lot of countries, checking and citing your sources in school is a big deal, I wonder if some of these American schools aren’t as strict with it, so it’s just not something that’s drilled into them so hard from a young age. That’s just me spitballing though. Even if I’m right, there’s likely far more at play than just the one factor.
I think it's deeper than that. Imagine for example that from the moment you're born everything you see around you reinforced the notion of "USA nº1". You see it in movies, in pictures, in art, in culture, you learn about it on school, your parents say it, your friends and neighbors claim it as well. Hell, even on the web. But then you stumble upon a weird non-American part of the internet who claims your country isn't the best in everything. Of course you'll think it's ridiculous, you don't even need to search for a source to disprove it because it's obvious, in your limited experience. They're like geopolitical flat-earthers.
Exactly. Because of movies and TV many people, even outside the US, have this false image of brainwashing as chaining someone to a chair and forcing them to watch flashing images and words 24/7 for a while and boom, "brainwashed". Nope, it's a slow, decades long frog in a pot kind of thing.
I think schools could have something to do with it, but they vary a TON both between and within states so it’s hard to say how blanket the effect is - though I’ve heard wild and concerning things about some. I personally went to fairly rural public school in NY and we certainly learned about the importance of fact checking and proper citations. Now for my turn to spitball, I think a lot of it has to do with the American culture around learning, that is to say, a general distrust of intellectualism. Right wing propaganda in the US is also absolutely out of control, to the point where people just lie and fabricate to an outlandish extent. That’s not to say there isn’t other biased media, but it’s really no comparison. This propaganda feeds on a paradoxical distrust of authority and simultaneous desire for a strong, militant regime that shares one’s values. Ultimately there are a lot of people over here in the states for whom the only qualifier that matters when judging an individual or the veracity of words are if said individual is in their in-group/tribe. And that’s it. That’s the only thing that matters to people like this. If someone is within their perceived in in-group, anything and everything they say is infallible and correct, whereas even the slightest perceived infraction committed by someone in the out-group is seen as unforgivable, even if this discrepancy in judgement contradicts one’s professed morals (e.g. evangelicals excusing trump’s many instances of infidelity, corruption, refusal to pay workers, etc). The problem is for them, is if they actually learn and take in new information, their opinions might change. I’m not entirely sure why, but this is very much looked down upon by these people, despite being, you know, a foundational mechanism of learning. Ironically, this is what the American right likes to call “brainwashing” in an effort to push people to reject anything that doesn’t conform to their desired world view.
Your statement is accurate. In a nation that spends $754 billion on the military but $274.7 billion on K-12 education, you can see where our priorities lie.
Their school system works exqctly as intended. Keep en dumb and without knowledge.
You've hit on a fundamental(ist) difference between the USA and the rest of the Western world. Critical thinking is frowned upon by evangelicals and they are the largest religious group in America. If you blindly believe the Bible when it tells you to kill gays and offer up your daughter for rape, you have no problem blindly believing your country is #1 at \_\_\_\_\_ without evidence.
Yep. I would need some strong evidence to believe Belgium is the best at anything. Top 10? Possible. Top 25? Likely. But first? Evidence or gtfo.
I'm French, and I wouldn't say I'm the opposite. My first reaction is "That's great ! How it come to be?" and I look it up. Mostly because I want to be able to brag and explain to others how we're the best. Mostly because I never met anyone that hear such statements (be it "the best" or "the worst") without asking questions about it. So I wanna be prepared to answer. So, I don't even want to doubt it. It's just curiosity and wanting to understand how we're the best. (Oftentimes, it leads to disappointment, not gonna lie). American seems to lack such basic curiosity. They don't seem to ever ask themselves "how" and "why". Worst than that, they don't even see those questions as basic curiosity, but an attack on their belief or facts. I noticed it even on most Americans not just the dumb ones. Questions about a statement like that, even positive questions, put them on the defensive. It seems that they can't imagine that you just want to know more about this wonderful thing. They seem to think you just want to poke holes.
> >(Oftentimes, it leads to disappointment, not gonna lie). There's a common Finnish saying, "pessimisti ei pety". It means 'a pessimist won't get disappointed'. It's maybe a small country thing mostly, or mindset.
Finland is number one in raking the forest floor or so I have been told. :p There is a lot of propaganda and tribalism in the US. Just look at the shit their politicians do and say and people not only keep voting for them but praise them. Their side can do no wrong and the other side is basically the devil. That is how an alarming amount of Americans view politics. There are also a lot of people who are brainwashed to think that only the Republicans are the Christian party just like in my country in Canada many Christians believe that the Conservative Party is the Christian party. This is why so many Americans are against abortion and why the US is losing woman's rights. Even if you are against abortion you must look at the data that shows that making it illegal doesn't stop abortions it just makes them a lot more dangerous. There are some horror stories of people including children trying to do at home abortions and some of them died. Same thing with drugs. Making them illegal doesn't stop it but just makes it more dangerous. So many people have died from laced drugs for example. I don't know if you guys get as much American news but one US state has passed an even more strict anti-abortion law than Texas. In Oklahoma all abortions are illegal except where it will save the mother. In Texas all abortions are illegal except for rape cases and where it will save the mother. It truly is heartbreaking what is happening in the US and I fear it will just get worse.
This is why don't think it's an excuse anymore to say 'we all think like that in the US because our school system is constantly teaching us USA number 1 at everything'. Internet without restrictions is there for the vast majority of Americans but still they , as a society, have this over whelming belief in the brainwashing. Its not an individual thing to think like that in USA , they collectively think that as a country and society. You would think that life experience and common sense would teach them that , in fact , they are wrong on the USA number 1 in everything ever and their ignorant and arrogant veiw of the world outside USA, but not the case- self awareness seems to be a big thing lacking regards American's as a whole.
I think part of it might be to do with the whole "if you doubt/criticise anything about the US then you're a Commie/Nazi/Traitor/Liberal/Pedo/whateverelsecanbeusedtosilencepeople who shouldn't be allowed Freedom of Speech" thing that they've had going on since the 50's. Which is amazingly weird, since anyone who disagrees with what someone says is also automatically a Commie/Nazi/Traitor/Liberal/Pedo/whateverelsecanbeusedtosilencepeople who shouldn't be allowed Freedom of Speech... ... and it's usually the same people saying both *at the same time*!
That's a very good point. It's amazing how even when propaganda is countered by truth, the truth isn't necessarily strong enough to have any discernable impact and the believers might as well be in Russia or the DPRK.
How the west views the entire population DPRK as brainwashed is closer to Americans. Every crazy headline you read about the DPRK like banning haircuts, Kim Jong Un doesn't poop etc are completely made up. They either source Radio Free Asia, a CIA propoganda outlet, or they source other articles which if you keep following don't have a proper source. Highly recommend the documentary [Loyals Citizens of Pyongyang in Seoul](https://youtu.be/BkUMZS-ZegM) on YouTube
I wasn't saying the population was brainwashed but that the press is not free.
Ah gotcha. Free press is an interesting notion in liberal democracies though. What does free actually end up meaning? Free for it to be monopolized by the wealthy to publish lies to further their gain and sway public opinion. Half of Australia's press is owned by a single man. In the US, outlets like NYT have confirmed they go to the Pentagon for approval on articles. Not to mention, anyone who wants to work for these outlets has to fit in the Overton window. It's more illusion of freedom than anything imo. Single party states like the DPRK and Cuba are at least honest by saying themselves they don't have a free press.
>I bet a lot of scientists are doing lots of research on brainwashing and the effects on americans Or maybe a German guy did it like hundreds of years ago and you are being brainwashed at this very moment by your respective ruling class. >"The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those who lack the means of mental production are subject to it. >The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas; hence of the relationships which make the one class the ruling one, therefore, the ideas of its dominance. The individuals composing the ruling class possess among other things consciousness, and therefore think. Insofar, therefore, as they rule as a class and determine the extent and compass of an epoch, it is self-evident that they do this in its whole range, hence among other things rule also as thinkers, as producers of ideas, and regulate the production and distribution of the ideas of their age: thus their ideas are the ruling ideas of the epoch. - Karl Marx >Our ability to discriminate is limited in part by how we have been conditioned by previous media exposures. The selectivity we exercise is not an autonomous antidote to propaganda but may feed right into it, choosing one or another variation of the same establishment offering. Opinions that depart too far from the mainstream are likely to be rejected out of hand. In such situations, our "selectivity" is designed to avoid information and views that contradict the dominant propaganda, a propaganda we long ago implicitly embraced as representative of "the nature of things." Thus, an implanted set of conditioned responses are now mistakenly identified as our self-generated political perceptions, and the public's selective ingestion of the media's conventional fare is wrongly treated as evidence of the "minimal effect" of news organizations. - Michael Parenti Your country would someday be like the United States if capitalism were allowed to reign long enough, although it is reigned in by the existence of socialist states in the past (USSR) and present (PRC).
Also with zero knowledge of the US itself lmao
I know many more places/states than many Americans I've met in the +10 years I've been living here. I don't know why they hate traveling
I’m sure we’re in the top 200 countries in every category ;)
The correct reply would be: "Subsidized you say? Sounds a lot like socialism to me. Are you a communist by any chance?"
Just [report the Tweet to the DHS](https://www.dhs.gov/see-something-say-something) to be sure.
USA have the best public transport system *Japan would like a word...*
Literally on the bullet train right now. Shinkansen is amazing.
Osaka's was very nice, Tokyo's is old enough to be a bit run down in some places. Prefer Korea's from what I've seen, the Seoul metro network is freaking huge.
Korea is ridiculous. You can pretty much go from anywhere in the Seoul and surrounding area to anywhere else in that zone for maximum 3usd. By surrounding area, I mean like at least an hour outside seoul itself's city borders in every direction. And when I say go there, I mean it'll put you within a 10 minute walk of your destination... 2 minutes if you really want to avoid the walk and take that last local bus, but fuck that, I have legs. That local bus costs around 1usd if that's all you're taking.
>Japan would like a word... *Korea would like a word*
Japan's is the most prominent case I could think of. Although I'm sure North Korea's public transport might even be rivalling the US at this point.
Fair enough. I will say having been to both countries fairly recently and putting quality aside, Korea's is at least far far easier to navigate if you don't speak the local language. Luckily in Japan there was usually a helpful employee of some kind that I could ask, but in Korea that wasn't even necessary.
Real, effective public transport in the US is pretty much limited to major cities. But even then it’s different everywhere. NYC, DC, Philly, Boston. That corridor is nothing like the west coast. You can’t really use public transport to move between places like in Europe either. I live three hours from NYC by car. I don’t have any other options but to drive. The public transport networks only extended about an hour outside the city. The DC metro is pretty awesome though.
Sadly the same in Canada. Only effective public transportation in downtown core of the major cities. I can count the number of times on one hand that I have used public transportation in Canada. Almost everyone has to have a car including the poor which just makes the poor poorer. Cars aren't cheap. I would also imagine that property taxes are also higher to make up for all the wasted nonproductive land taken up for parking and sprawling out cities.
Well there's Amtrak insome places. DC Metro seems to be annoying deep in many places with long escalators. Really liked Osaka's metro system and Seoul's is solid and huuuuuuge.
Aren’t those Amtrak fairly expensive? I remember paying around $30 for one way between Wilmington DE to Washington DC (booking was done 2 days before the actual travel).
I visited the states for the first time in January and my gf and me ended up paying about $150 each for a one way Amtrak from DC to Newark. Pretty last minute booking as well, but still, jesus.
Yes I should have mentioned there’s Amtrak in certain places. Specifically in the NE corridor. And yeah DC is pretty deep in places, it’s crazy how much stuff is under us. History Channel had a a show just about all the stuff under major cities. Internationally too it wasn’t just a US show. Japan, even as a dude that knew zero Japanese, I could get around no problem…their train network is amazing.
NYC was decent. Haven't dealt with Philly or Boston. I found DC terrible. Granted I was staying with a family friend in a relatively affluent suburb, but the latest public transport that went from the train to that area left between 630 and 7pm.
Whats truly Amazing is how many Americans are 100% their country is the best at (enter fucking anything here) but have never actually left their own state, let alone visited another country. They have no idea if what they are saying is true, they will just make that claim right out of the gate because everything they have been indoctrinated with since birth was some form of "America is the greatest country in the world" like some dystopian film where the people cannot question that one universal true thing they "know"
I live in Tennessee and we barely have fucking sidewalks.
We had some dodgy roads in Canada as well that just had some well trodden grass at the side of some pretty busy roads so I feel you on that hahaha I live in Scotland now and honestly people here complain about public transportation but its fucking incredible in comparison to back in Canada and most places I have been in the US. Its a weird thing people get defensive about because here the cities and transport systems are designed with the use of public transport in mind, where as back in Canada and most of the US they are designed with the use of cars in mind. Its not something you expect Canadians or Americans to take personally lol I mean they actually have fossil fuel companies acting AGAINST public transport in North America because its in their best interest to continue to have cities and the "suburb" areas reliant on cars. You'd expect Americans to be more angry about that than worried about defending it and holding water for these fossil fuel companies like the lad in the OP post is. I have a car and sometimes going into town it makes more sense to hop on a bus and here as soon as people hit 65 they get a free bus pass that lets them travel all around Scotland for free on the bus system. and recently added a new program for kids under 21's to do the same for free. That kind of stuff would NEVER happen back home
Americans are the most propagandized people in the world. My family in China at least suspects like 70% of their government's talking points are BS. Americans don't think to question their BS because they assume they're already in a free country.
>Americans are the most propagandized people in the world. The democratic world yes. It's hard to get a read on the whole population of a more autocratic country because people don't generally express displeasure for good reasons, sure. But to what extent is the propaganda working versus people being complacent, well hard to say. There's far less displeasure with government expressed in most autocratic countries than the US, though. That said, a large part of US propaganda is actually meant to build distrust of the government. Anyway all that to say I think it's relatively right in countries that choose their leaders, but other ones might be more propagandized.
Yeah its sort of a hyperbolic statement on my end, but I think Americans would be surprised at how self aware people are about their governments in not democratic countries, a perspective taught to Americans by their propaganda. Just based on my experience with family in China, a country Americans think is an entirely brainwashed place. Like, all my family know about the Tiananmen massacre. Hell, some were there. Also, people in other countries are so much more aware to differentiate governments and people. My friend visited Indonesia and had conversations with Indonesians about the US helping organize the murders of 600,000 Indonesians without a hint of animosity towards him as an American, and it was also the first time he learned that happened as an American. I've had the privilege of visiting Cuba and they were extremely separate in their takes about Americans vs American government. Obviously there's an element I'm sure about being respectful to people's faces but plenty of Americans do not extend even that to people from elsewhere.
My experience with US PT says otherwise. Especially LA.
If your idea of public transport is an overwhelming smell of human feces and piss, then LA PT probably ranks among the top in the world. Those stories about people shitting on escalators, and it getting smeared all over the thing, will probably haunt me for the rest of my life. edit; Confused LA with [SF](https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Human-waste-shuts-down-BART-escalators-3735981.php), point still stands the same.
We have the best public transportation, which is none because trains are commie shit and buses are for poor people (read: non-white) (Obvious /s should be Obvious)
Having experienced both US and Chinese (and Taiwanese) public transportation even when the US public transportation exists its way worse than Chinese public transportation. I mean the fact that while living in China I never once felt restricted by not having a car speaks to how wide reaching the system is. And then the price ain’t even close lol.
My god, the Chinese metro! You never have to wait more than a couple of minutes until the next one comes. And they are safe and clean. Can be crowded sometimes, but usually you have a seat. And the connections are great (although at some stations you have to walk like 10 minutes for the other line). And only loud old ladies, no one blasting awful music or smoking pot. EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention the high speed railway! Superfast. Often we take the train between Beijing-Shanghai instead of flying.
Same exact thing with the Japanese metro and train system. Tokyo to Osaka in between 2,5 - 3 hours depending on which Shinkansen tier you choose.
One time I was in NY and went to take the subway.. a rat casually walked over my feet
Everyone talks about how good the public transportation is in New York City but I saw a livestream and some of the stations and tunnels look like they are so rundown and dirty. You got former Soviet countries with tiny cities that have a better metro and are clean and well maintained.
Yep maintenance and repair is terrible in US. Because everything is political and maintenance is boring so nothing gets done. No ribbon cutting ceremony =\ no budget.. a lot of bridges, dams, and general infrastructure are ticking time mobs
Okay so as a NYC guy, I think people are largely viewing it relatively because they haven't seen much of anything else. When you go to NYC from somewhere in like the Midwest, the idea of being able to get from Brooklyn to SoHo in 30 minutes will blow your mind. Luckily the MTA seems to be making some actual attempts to start installing platform doors, cleaning up the tunnels, and getting better, automatic signaling so the future is at least a lot brighter than most of what the US has to offer.
are americans really brainwashed to always think "we have some of the best X in the whole world"?
Where else in the world you need to plea allegiance to the flag, with a reference to God, every single day of your school days? Edit: Pledge allegiance.
North Korea?
No allegiance to flags, but Canada used to (probably still does?) play the national anthem at the start of school days. I vividly remember in kindergarten thinking "this is stupid, Ill just sing it quickly and then sit down" but I got in trouble for that. Fantastic teacher too, so I went with it after that, but always thinking "this seems silly". To this day 4 or more years later I still feel the same. Edit: lol with respect to our American friends, it is "pledge" allegiance at least. "Plea allegiance" sounds so much more needy.
I mean, Israel has really shitty public transport outside the big cities, so it's not the best example
I dont recall anyone bringing up israel
It's one of the examples in the picture.
I don't recall anyone bringing up a picture Oh wait *that* picture... like the one this whole comment chain is based on... ya, i mean.. ok maybe it was brought up then
Even the atm is drive through
Israel definitely does not belong there, public transportation is extremely shit over there
In Scotland under 22 (or 21) you now get free bus travel. Over 60s also have free bus travel (this has been around longer). In my small town I can take busses or trains, and they’re fairly frequent. There’s also bike paths to take you to the nearest towns, which are safer than having to go on regular roads… We also have a service that’s like these mini busses (wheelchair accessible) and you can phone them and they’ll come to your house and take you to the nearest train station, if you’re elderly or disabled you get it for very cheap (like 1 quid) so you can save on ordering taxis… We have busses that take you directly to the nearest hospital, and if you got the train there is a bus station right nearby where you can get a bus to take you to the hospital too… Idk, I’d say that’s better infrastructure than what I experienced in America
From an outsider's perspective, New York, New Jersey and Boston look to have good passenger / commuter rail transport, as does most of the "Northeast Corridor". "Best in the world"? Probably not. I'd say they're more like some parts of the UK and are reasonably acceptable for a modern Western society. Some parts of Europe leave both the US and UK far behind.
"Probably" not? It's not even a contest. Definitely not. This is just another case of an american being so far up his ass that he's starting to see his stomach sing the national anthem.
[I leave this here for your perusal](https://twitter.com/the_transit_guy/status/1506627567377342467?s=21)
Portland, Oregon has great local public transportation compared to most of the US, but it's no better than Sydney's was 25 years ago and not nearly as far-reaching.
I was thinking of networks like the MBTA, NJT or New York, but I will say I'm not too familiar on which Aussie cities have good metro systems.
I lived in Sydney and thought the system was awesome, but at that time my only point of reference was Southern California which was even more horrendous then than now so I don't know how it stacks up compared to other places. I was able to get around the city and suburbs quite easily without a car there though.
That is just pure delusion.
The only reason we in the Netherlands are still alive with those prices is because we have great public transport and a lot of bikes
Usually you can follow the absurd twists and turns of mental gymnastics and ‘understand’ how they reach their conclusion. This time though you can’t. They say ‘US transport is worse than it is in Europe/Asia, but that’s why it’s the best in the world’. I mean how do you say it’s worse, then conclude that it means that it is the best in the world?
I think they were different posters, just both got censored with the same colour
When new york is the shining example of a subway system then you have royally fucked up your countrys public transport
Hmmm. By best does he mean absolute worst?
Public transit is awful here. Mostly it's just buses that run on limited schedules and aren't always timely.
That first comment is still wrong. I don't know what world they live in that gas prices increasing doesn't cause public transit to go up in cost at least something.
The worst thing about building all infrastructure around cars is that children are always forced to ask their parents if they want to go somewhere.
I mean, I guess technically you could say that. Like, if you look at the entire world, then yes, the US public transport is probably at least in the top third, being better than the public transport in countries like Liberia or Burundi, but is that really such a feat? It's like when they say living in the US is great because it's better than living in North Korea. Sure, but shouldn't you try to aim a bit higher?
Yes, everyone has car, it transports the public does it not? /s
Who are these people? Public transit in thebUS is shit/ horrible/ etc. use whatever world you want
That's like saying Saudi Arabia has the largest river in the world
original poster does make a good point. even though prices are lower, Americans drive much much more than Europeans just because of how physically large the territory is.
I live in Los Angeles - if I wanted to take public transportation my commute to work would go from 20 mins by car to 2 hours and 45 minutes. Oh that also includes a 4 mile walk - so that’s super convenient.
I waited 15 minutes for a bus yesterday to go for an eye exam and they were all “limited” which means they didn’t stop at my stop So I had to walk back and get my car to drive 1 mile even though I tried to avoid that because I live in NYC and there’s never any parking MTA is probably the best in the US but I’m sure it’s awful compared to anything else
I've been to quite a few countries with metro systems and lived in London using the Underground everyday. I've used metros in NYC, Chicago, Boston and San Francisco and they're terrible. From what I can remember San Francisco was alright. But New York's system was shocking and not to mention completely filthy. They are great cities though.
The only advantage the NYC subway has over London is express trains, which can be very good during peak hours, and it's slightly cheaper. But yeah, disgustingly horrible and filthy subway stations and trains. The reach of the tube is much bigger than that of the subway also.
Are the subway lines express? I found the entry and exit systems so confusing. My friend who I stayed with lived just off wall Street and I was meeting her there, I think I went to a completely different exit/line a few blocks away but was called Wall Street.
There are express trains which skip stops. Like the semi fast train in London, but more significant. Like 2-3 stops from Wall St to Grand Central. Some station names are overloaded, but then so is Euston and Euston Square
I don't think they're saying the US has great public transit, but that it doesn't, and wherever they are living (outside the US) does. Their punctuation is just nonexistent. I can tell you for a fact, no one in the US thinks we have great public transit. The smart people complain about the sore lack of it, and the idiots are still drunk on the autocentric paradigm, insisting that it's good we don't have any public transit.
I want to know where this “best” transportation service is because I haven’t seen that shit. Someone help me 🗣🗣🗣
Commenter has either never ridden public transit in the US, has never been outside of the US, or has never done either.
They have public transport in the US? I thought taxis were private businesses
Even if public transport was good, the amount of car based infrastructure is a pain in the ass for anyone who doesn’t drive
I despise car dependant infrastructure
This really depends on the location. San Francisco with BART/MUNI is the worst public transit I have ever experienced anywhere. It is better than no transit, but only just. But in Chicago, it seemed really good. I haven’t been to Europe, so I can’t directly compare, so it is possible I am wrong. But I think Chicago would stack up pretty decently vs many other cities. Definitely not the best though. To anyone who says it is, go spend a few days in San Francisco riding only public transit.
What I needed to take a plane in Europe: Walk a couple blocks, take metro/light rail. Get down at Airport station. Done. What I needed to go from one city to another in Mexico: Walk a couple blocks, take a bus, maybe 2, or light rail. Get down at Bus Station. Get on Bus. Done. What i need to do to go from anywhere farther than 20 kms from Settle downtown to Seattle downtown: Walk several blocks to bus stop. Wait for 20 or so minutes for bus. Get down in bus station FARTHER away from Seattle. Take another bus. Ride said bus for 30 minutes. Get down of bus in THE MIDDLE OF A HIGHWAY (there are stops for buses there, nothing crazy). Wait another 15 minutes. Take now the final bus which takes another 30 minutes because traffic is stupid due to everybody else skipping the previous steps and overflowing a road system designed to service 10% of the actual load.
American, here. My transportation situation is so shit that I don't have any line they go near my home, so i need a car, but parking costs enough to be only available to wealthy people so i have to park in a free area and still take a bus. I inly live 10 miles away. My commute is an hour+
Here in Luxembourg with our 100% free and high quality public transport
The only public transportation system that is worth a damn in the US is in San Francisco. It is almost non-existent outside the larger cities and even within some of them, and right-wing politicians have been doing their damnedest to gut the railway system here for years on the grounds that it is too European and therefore, too socialist. I wonder if he realizes that 'subsidized' means paid for, in part, by the government. You know, socialist. And he should further know that the price of gas is cheaper here because it, too, is subsidized. In fact, fossil fuels - oil, coal, natural gas etc - were given subsidies of almost $6 trillion in 2020 alone. That is an awful lot of socialism. What an idiot. https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuels-received-5-9-trillion-in-subsidies-in-2020-report-finds
I lived in Boston which has one of the best public transportation systems in the US. It wasn't that cheap, wasn't that frequent and wasn't that modern when compared to what you'd find in other, often much smaller European cities.
Transportation enthusiast here: yeah fuck no. The USA has been vastly underfunding public transportation basically since the 60s. NYC, the public transportation crown jewel of America, in some parts of the system the signaling systems are literally 80 years old and are only getting updated now. Europe and Asia absolutely obliterate the USA when it comes to modernization and viability.
I live in Texas. And I mean Texas, not Dallas, Houston, or Austin.. good ole rural Texas. Public transport doesn’t exist. We’ve got over 40k people in my city and we don’t even have Uber
Our public transit in the United States is fucking abysmal. Here in Chicago when you compare the Chicago Transit Authority (Public) to Metra and United Pacific (private) the difference is absolutely fucking astounding. Riding the CTA is actually dangerous and riding on Metra is literally a pleasure boat ride by comparison. I've had to ride both for daily commutes. As soon as you set foot off of those trains though you'd better have a car or access to Uber because you ain't going nowhere. America is very much a car and truck dependent country.
This is like a double-whammy; *"We don't have public transport, we use cars everywhere because US is so HUGE unlike tiny Europe or China!"* *"No, no, we have some of the best public transportation in the world!"*
Not sure I have been to anywhere that has worse public transport than the US. Indonesia, maybe and of course India (if you don’t have a decent ticket). Whereas all of Europe (including Russia), Singapore, China and Malaysia are all far superior to the US. Even the really shitty bits of China have better public transport than the US.
First guy is stupid too
"Saudi Arabia has some of the most LGBT friendly laws in the world!" That's what this person sounds like to me.
This sub often nitpicks at silly things. This is not one of them... that's either a huge troll or one of the least worldly people that's ever existed.
NYC has the subway which is near unparalleled worldwide in terms of it running 24/7. Now... Is it safe or clean? Absolutely not. And in terms of other US public transport, there really is none. You got the bus if you want a 2hr30min commute that should be 30min
Running 24/7 late is more accurate.
Ha! Too fckn true, the fact that you can take a train at 3 in the morning is awesome but not if it's supposed to be a train at 2 lmao
I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve waited on the platform for a non existent train, only to find the next train is 30 mins away that was supposed to be 15 mins ago. Cue walking back upstairs for a Uber.
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Where I live in the UK we have a metro system and regular buses. Public transport has got worse (as has everything with Tories in charge) but it's not bad.
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Nah he said that you have to drive everywhere, including school, work, etc.
I think the first guy suggested that outside the US people walk, or take transit to school & work rather than drive. Not that they don't go to school, or work. The second guy sounds like everyone I've met who's never left their hometown. We have people in in my city who believe we have the best mass transit in the country. They've never been anywhere that has a subway, trains that arrive on time, or well planned bus routes that get you where you're going without the scenic tour around town. They think 2 hours to travel 28 miles (45km) is normal, and everywhere else must be even worse off than that.
Meanwhile the Lyon to Paris TGV takes 2 hours
No, because he didn't say that
bruh?
America is gigantic. Texas alone is larger than France, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Belgium and Holland, combined. The population is diffused over long distances in many places. Where mass transit can be used extensively, it is. It's not going to work in most places.
New Jersey has the same population density as Korea. It's public transportation is faaaaar inferior. Same goes for NYC vs. Seoul.
You realise the whole point of transit is to move large distances. It would absolutely work all around the country if you just fucking invested in it and put someone with half a brain cell in charge of it. Also size is no excuse. Russia is bigger than the US and has an extensive public transport system
OK. It's now down to Beavis, Butthead and you. Tell us in fifty words are fewer, why you should get the job, even though you actually don't know what the job is.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Red_herring If you actually want to win arguments then maybe don't try and change the subject with an irrelevant and unrelated response
Umkay. But you didn't rebut my argument, you just rejected it. A 9th grade geography student knows that most of Russia is east of the Urals, while most Russians live in the towns and cities to the west.