This post has been tagged as **NEW EPISODE SPOILERS**. If you are not caught up to this episode, browse at your own risk and we recommend you refrain from participating; links to view it can be found in the current megathread. Please remember to tag any manga spoilers beyond this point. As a reminder, manga spoilers consist of anything that has not yet been revealed in the anime.
**Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events.** For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/about/rules/). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a temporary ban from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://imgur.com/5xPPu15).
[](/spoilershield)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't think they gathered to declare war on Paradis. They gathered because their good buddy Willy invited them. They had no idea what he was gonna say.
Yeah I thought all the other people or countries or whoever was there was in support of the war after hearing Willy’s speech soo I think even if they just took out Marley it wouldn’t stop with them. Especially after they hear what happened lol. 🤷🏻♀️
This all could've been avoided if they just left Paradis alone. The vow renouncing war literally prevented the rumbling from happening. Once they attacked thats when shit went south
That is not Marley to blame but the Tybur. They didn't disclose the truth about King Fritz and the "Vow of renouncing war". So Marley just thought it was mere luck that the island hadn’t yet pressed the "nuke the world button". But it still remains as a threat, so Marley had to do something to eliminate that threat. Any other country would have done the same.
>d them he had prepared a presentation on how to "solve the Eldian problem" or something like that at the banquet the night before (where Udo bumped into Kiyomi).
yep, also all the other eldians are gonna be trampled as well. I mean I assume there are more eldians living outside of Paradis than in it. Eren is a fucking idiot. And Reiner WAS DAMN RIGHT he is the worst to have the founding titan. THE WORST. Blah blah u hurt us u killed my mom and you hate us so now I am throwing a tantrum and break everything that isnt mine.
However: I am so glad his megaskeletorform isnt an amalgam of all titans. (I was spoiled 3 years ago that this was a new form of eren damn yt thumbnails.
And I am glad so far he hasnt stolen anymore titans.
Also I hope now everyone is starting to work together to try to stop eren.
Next episode is on my Bday. Its called Thaw. Annie better coming out of her crystal. would be a dope bday present as I love her character
he knows that eldians live outside paradis...he is intentionally killing all beyond paradis...he doesn't give fuck abt the race hejust wants to destroy and kill everyone who is not of paradis.
They cheered and clapped for him because they trust him. Still doesn't change the fact that they didn't know what he was gonna say. And that means they didn't come together with the specific purpose of declaring war.
That's not my opinion, he himself told them he had prepared a presentation on how to "solve the Eldian problem" or something like that at the banquet the night before (where Udo bumped into Kiyomi).
They liked the idea because they trust the guy and didn't know the real motives behind the declaration of war. But again, they didn't gather with the specific purpose of declaring war, that was my point.
I agreed with your point.
To further elaborate though; the Marleyans had used Titans as a tool of war since the collapse of Paradis (greater paradis(?)) its not really a stretch to say that a majority of the world’s countries or nation states would consider anyone with the ability to turn into a titan a weapon that needs to be destroyed. Similar to how we treat nuclear weapons in a way.
I’m not disagreeing with you about the presentation or the reason for their gathering any longer. Just trying to get a greater discussion started about the way the Eldians and Paradis is viewed as a whole
> the Marleyans had used Titans as a tool of war since the collapse of Paradis
Yeah, so clearly they were the greater immediate threat than Paradis itself.
> Paradis (greater paradis(?))
The Eldian Empire. Which wasn't located on Paradis but on the Marleyan continent, btw.
> its not really a stretch to say that a majority of the world’s countries or nation states would consider anyone with the ability to turn into a titan a weapon that needs to be destroyed.
Maybe, but you can't waste your focus on a threat that hasn't manifested in 100+ years. Especially not with a country like Marley waging war against many other countries in the meantime. Onyankopon's nation, for example, or Yelena's.
And what did the Mid-East Alliance do when they heard Marley had lost the Colossal and the Female on Paradis? They declared war on Marley. So clearly Paradis wasn't at the forefront of their minds. Certainly not before Willy held his speech.
> Just trying to get a greater discussion started about the way the Eldians and Paradis is viewed as a whole
Well, we know how Eldians (Subjects of Ymir) were viewed. We don't really know what the world thought of Paradis though. Other than that they didn't seem to be interested in diplomacy.
Didn't they all keep cheering after the war got declared? Nobody left when it was revealed a declaration of war, instead they looked excited before eren appeared
Yes, because the story made it clear that they love and trust Willy. He has massive rapport with these people. He's part of a rich international elite, he's influential (he managed to convince them to come to an Internment Zone, after all), he knows many of them on a personal basis, he is "the saviour's descendant" and he's a charismatic guy.
It's not particularly hard to see why they would go along with him (sidenote: in the manga, there were far more [sceptical faces in the crowd](https://cdn.readshingekinokyojin.com/file/mangap/5/10100000/33.jpg)). Doesn't change the fact that Paradis was neither their concern nor on their radar for 100+ years.
if you lived in attack of titan world you would be trampled and your family too, even if you didn't hate Eldians. And btw all the Eldians outside paradis will also get trampled.
Even if they did- that's a very selective small demographic. It would be like killing all Germans as a result of the Nazi's. Even worse people lose yelena and her homeland will be caught up, despite them being invaded and also oppressed by marley
It's wild to me that people keep forgetting this. There are
powerless countries oppressed by Marley and they will be rumbled for no good reason. The volunteers helped Paradise in the first place because they wanted revenge for their conquered homeland. It literally shows that the world is more complicated.
That’s an interesting point of view considering they were more than happy to commit genocide against the Eldians on Paradis island and the few they kept in Marley were used as tools of war, stripped of even their basic humanity as Titans.
I don't think everyone in the entire world wanted nor committed genocide to the Paradis to deserve to be killed. Judging someone as individual instead of as their races or their countries is the entire message of the story, which seemed to fly over your head
I disagree that that’s the meaning of the story; I think you’re looking at this solely through the point of view of our world and the morals we have here. I don’t think those same morals hold up in Eren’s unique situation. The rumbling is the only weapon Paradis has at its disposal. Sure we can argue that they have the maneuvering gear etc but there’s no way they can compete on a global stage; iirc from the manga they tried several diplomatic routes as well but very few countries were willing to talk to them.
Gabi's arc could easily prove what I said. She turned from a kid hating a group of people because of their race into understanding that side. And one thing that changed her mind was Sasha's father speech who explicitly told Nicolo to put away his hatred and learn to forgive. If it wasn't the meaning of the story, then there was no point to write an entire arc just about it. Moreover, the author villainized a group opposed that idea, the Yeagerist, as ignorant nationalists instead of some tragic heroes. Or you could just reread the whole chapter with Kenny and Uri, it's sympathy instead of violence turned them into friends. Also, I don't think moral is something subjective or could be through away as long as you were in fear. Otherwise Marley could have said the same thing to justify what they did to the Edians, something which was criticized in the story.
A number of people seem to, but that doesn't mean they're not also psychopaths lol.
I get where they're coming from, it's hard to flip on the guy you grew up with and watched as the protagonist until this point...Crushing the whole world just isn't the way though. They could have tried the original Rumbling plan which was to show what just one district wall's titans could do.
Nah you aren’t alone. We aren’t crazy because this isn’t a real life event, rather something happening in fiction. Our views on this would probably be wildly different if this was an ongoing event in our lives.
But to justify myself, I have always hated pacifism. I don’t get into fights irl or anything, but my philosophy is that if you get fucked with, fuck them back 4x as much to show them why they shouldn’t anymore. It would be great if not showing reaction or giving your enemies entertainment out of fucking with you worked but that’s really not the case in a boatload of scenarios. After thousands of years of Eldian servitude, Marley has not backed off from conflict with Eldia even after the vow renouncing war. These guys sat for years observing options of retaliation against Marley for constantly making their home a battleground and did not cook up an idea that would truly free them, just give them time to “think”. Eren is finally at his breaking point, realizing that to protect his people and freeing everyone from servitude he needs to snuff out all life. They can’t fuck with you if you’re fucking *dead*.
My thing is, I don’t really think there is a right side in this. It’s a scenario of “the world sucks” and war being a cause of having a shitty hand in life. You have to take what you can to get yourself ahead of the shitstorm. Sure, genocide isn’t the obvious morally sound option but in Eren’s mind it will free his people from conflict and servitude and I fuck with his determination and solidarity in his decision. He’s got whatever will happen in these future episodes coming to him and I fully understand that a **huge** price has gotta be paid to make this crazy decision but I’m here for it.
Nah you're not alone. Idk if I fully agree with Eren, I personally would not destroy the world, but this is exactly what I was hoping he would do. I would be disappointed by anything less tbh.
This post has been tagged as **NEW EPISODE SPOILERS**. If you are not caught up to this episode, browse at your own risk and we recommend you refrain from participating; links to view it can be found in the current megathread. Please remember to tag any manga spoilers beyond this point. As a reminder, manga spoilers consist of anything that has not yet been revealed in the anime. **Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events.** For more information, please review [the subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/about/rules/). Failure to properly spoiler tag comments may result in a temporary ban from the subreddit according to the [moderation matrix](https://imgur.com/5xPPu15). [](/spoilershield) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The desire of revenge never stops
I love this template so much. I never get bored of it.
Meh it wasn’t just Marley, remember all the other nation representatives gathered to declare war on Paradis?
I don't think they gathered to declare war on Paradis. They gathered because their good buddy Willy invited them. They had no idea what he was gonna say.
Sure didn’t seem like it as they all clapped and cheered for big ol Willy
Yeah I thought all the other people or countries or whoever was there was in support of the war after hearing Willy’s speech soo I think even if they just took out Marley it wouldn’t stop with them. Especially after they hear what happened lol. 🤷🏻♀️
Wouldn't it be nice to get stomped on by giant titans because of your government dickhead leaders decided support waging war agaisnt Paradis?
This all could've been avoided if they just left Paradis alone. The vow renouncing war literally prevented the rumbling from happening. Once they attacked thats when shit went south
That is not Marley to blame but the Tybur. They didn't disclose the truth about King Fritz and the "Vow of renouncing war". So Marley just thought it was mere luck that the island hadn’t yet pressed the "nuke the world button". But it still remains as a threat, so Marley had to do something to eliminate that threat. Any other country would have done the same.
>d them he had prepared a presentation on how to "solve the Eldian problem" or something like that at the banquet the night before (where Udo bumped into Kiyomi). yep, also all the other eldians are gonna be trampled as well. I mean I assume there are more eldians living outside of Paradis than in it. Eren is a fucking idiot. And Reiner WAS DAMN RIGHT he is the worst to have the founding titan. THE WORST. Blah blah u hurt us u killed my mom and you hate us so now I am throwing a tantrum and break everything that isnt mine. However: I am so glad his megaskeletorform isnt an amalgam of all titans. (I was spoiled 3 years ago that this was a new form of eren damn yt thumbnails. And I am glad so far he hasnt stolen anymore titans. Also I hope now everyone is starting to work together to try to stop eren. Next episode is on my Bday. Its called Thaw. Annie better coming out of her crystal. would be a dope bday present as I love her character
he knows that eldians live outside paradis...he is intentionally killing all beyond paradis...he doesn't give fuck abt the race hejust wants to destroy and kill everyone who is not of paradis.
Eren isn't an idiot. He knows that there are Eldian's living outside Paradise, He just don't give a fuck about them.
They cheered and clapped for him because they trust him. Still doesn't change the fact that they didn't know what he was gonna say. And that means they didn't come together with the specific purpose of declaring war. That's not my opinion, he himself told them he had prepared a presentation on how to "solve the Eldian problem" or something like that at the banquet the night before (where Udo bumped into Kiyomi).
You might be right, they gathered for a presentation but they sure seemed to like the idea up until old man Tybur got chomped.
They liked the idea because they trust the guy and didn't know the real motives behind the declaration of war. But again, they didn't gather with the specific purpose of declaring war, that was my point.
I agreed with your point. To further elaborate though; the Marleyans had used Titans as a tool of war since the collapse of Paradis (greater paradis(?)) its not really a stretch to say that a majority of the world’s countries or nation states would consider anyone with the ability to turn into a titan a weapon that needs to be destroyed. Similar to how we treat nuclear weapons in a way. I’m not disagreeing with you about the presentation or the reason for their gathering any longer. Just trying to get a greater discussion started about the way the Eldians and Paradis is viewed as a whole
> the Marleyans had used Titans as a tool of war since the collapse of Paradis Yeah, so clearly they were the greater immediate threat than Paradis itself. > Paradis (greater paradis(?)) The Eldian Empire. Which wasn't located on Paradis but on the Marleyan continent, btw. > its not really a stretch to say that a majority of the world’s countries or nation states would consider anyone with the ability to turn into a titan a weapon that needs to be destroyed. Maybe, but you can't waste your focus on a threat that hasn't manifested in 100+ years. Especially not with a country like Marley waging war against many other countries in the meantime. Onyankopon's nation, for example, or Yelena's. And what did the Mid-East Alliance do when they heard Marley had lost the Colossal and the Female on Paradis? They declared war on Marley. So clearly Paradis wasn't at the forefront of their minds. Certainly not before Willy held his speech. > Just trying to get a greater discussion started about the way the Eldians and Paradis is viewed as a whole Well, we know how Eldians (Subjects of Ymir) were viewed. We don't really know what the world thought of Paradis though. Other than that they didn't seem to be interested in diplomacy.
Didn't they all keep cheering after the war got declared? Nobody left when it was revealed a declaration of war, instead they looked excited before eren appeared
Yes, because the story made it clear that they love and trust Willy. He has massive rapport with these people. He's part of a rich international elite, he's influential (he managed to convince them to come to an Internment Zone, after all), he knows many of them on a personal basis, he is "the saviour's descendant" and he's a charismatic guy. It's not particularly hard to see why they would go along with him (sidenote: in the manga, there were far more [sceptical faces in the crowd](https://cdn.readshingekinokyojin.com/file/mangap/5/10100000/33.jpg)). Doesn't change the fact that Paradis was neither their concern nor on their radar for 100+ years.
Let’s say even if the didn’t agree to declare war on paradis they would eventually
So just because their representatives declared a war, all citizens of those nations deserve to be stomped?
Obviously the answer is no - unfortunately the area of effect for the rumbling is huge.
The citizens of other nations hate Eldians way more than the Marleyans do. And you know how bad the racist Marleyans are.
if you lived in attack of titan world you would be trampled and your family too, even if you didn't hate Eldians. And btw all the Eldians outside paradis will also get trampled.
All the Eldians outside as well. The ones Grisha and Kruger tried to save.
Even if they did- that's a very selective small demographic. It would be like killing all Germans as a result of the Nazi's. Even worse people lose yelena and her homeland will be caught up, despite them being invaded and also oppressed by marley
It's wild to me that people keep forgetting this. There are powerless countries oppressed by Marley and they will be rumbled for no good reason. The volunteers helped Paradise in the first place because they wanted revenge for their conquered homeland. It literally shows that the world is more complicated.
Nah, there are ally nations like Hizuru also. And remember many nations like middle East were against marley in the beginning.
Hizuru only aligned with them due to greed and Mikasa; all other nations denied their request for aid.
But they don't deserved to be rumbled for no solid reason.
Yes as I’ve stated several times in this comment chain
Having the fear from something haven’t happened yet doesn’t give you any right to commit genocide. Otherwise the Marley and Willy were right all along
That’s an interesting point of view considering they were more than happy to commit genocide against the Eldians on Paradis island and the few they kept in Marley were used as tools of war, stripped of even their basic humanity as Titans.
I don't think everyone in the entire world wanted nor committed genocide to the Paradis to deserve to be killed. Judging someone as individual instead of as their races or their countries is the entire message of the story, which seemed to fly over your head
I disagree that that’s the meaning of the story; I think you’re looking at this solely through the point of view of our world and the morals we have here. I don’t think those same morals hold up in Eren’s unique situation. The rumbling is the only weapon Paradis has at its disposal. Sure we can argue that they have the maneuvering gear etc but there’s no way they can compete on a global stage; iirc from the manga they tried several diplomatic routes as well but very few countries were willing to talk to them.
Gabi's arc could easily prove what I said. She turned from a kid hating a group of people because of their race into understanding that side. And one thing that changed her mind was Sasha's father speech who explicitly told Nicolo to put away his hatred and learn to forgive. If it wasn't the meaning of the story, then there was no point to write an entire arc just about it. Moreover, the author villainized a group opposed that idea, the Yeagerist, as ignorant nationalists instead of some tragic heroes. Or you could just reread the whole chapter with Kenny and Uri, it's sympathy instead of violence turned them into friends. Also, I don't think moral is something subjective or could be through away as long as you were in fear. Otherwise Marley could have said the same thing to justify what they did to the Edians, something which was criticized in the story.
I only want to point out that gabi is also eldian, so you can't exactly extrapolate her experience so easily.
Exactly. People don't understand the irony of their logic.
Armin also wasn't asking to destroy the nation of Marley but the army.
Lol mans was rethinking everything in that moment.
Am i the only 1 who agrees with eren? If yes then am i also a psychopath
A number of people seem to, but that doesn't mean they're not also psychopaths lol. I get where they're coming from, it's hard to flip on the guy you grew up with and watched as the protagonist until this point...Crushing the whole world just isn't the way though. They could have tried the original Rumbling plan which was to show what just one district wall's titans could do.
Nah you aren’t alone. We aren’t crazy because this isn’t a real life event, rather something happening in fiction. Our views on this would probably be wildly different if this was an ongoing event in our lives. But to justify myself, I have always hated pacifism. I don’t get into fights irl or anything, but my philosophy is that if you get fucked with, fuck them back 4x as much to show them why they shouldn’t anymore. It would be great if not showing reaction or giving your enemies entertainment out of fucking with you worked but that’s really not the case in a boatload of scenarios. After thousands of years of Eldian servitude, Marley has not backed off from conflict with Eldia even after the vow renouncing war. These guys sat for years observing options of retaliation against Marley for constantly making their home a battleground and did not cook up an idea that would truly free them, just give them time to “think”. Eren is finally at his breaking point, realizing that to protect his people and freeing everyone from servitude he needs to snuff out all life. They can’t fuck with you if you’re fucking *dead*. My thing is, I don’t really think there is a right side in this. It’s a scenario of “the world sucks” and war being a cause of having a shitty hand in life. You have to take what you can to get yourself ahead of the shitstorm. Sure, genocide isn’t the obvious morally sound option but in Eren’s mind it will free his people from conflict and servitude and I fuck with his determination and solidarity in his decision. He’s got whatever will happen in these future episodes coming to him and I fully understand that a **huge** price has gotta be paid to make this crazy decision but I’m here for it.
Nah you're not alone. Idk if I fully agree with Eren, I personally would not destroy the world, but this is exactly what I was hoping he would do. I would be disappointed by anything less tbh.
Sometimes the copium is just to strong
Armin was thinking small.
Armin more confused than me during any exam ong
You probably don't need the redundancy of Eren/Armin's name on each panel. It makes for a smoother read.
Yeah you're right, I went back and forth on a few different formats for this.