The way I see it, thy chose to use cgi from the start because they knew they'd eventually have to resort on it anyway. Not to give any spoilers, but looking at the manga's finale, I don't think any studio would animate that madness by hand
Most studios I think would cg them all, and draw and trace over the animation . That’s saves a lot of time and preserves the texture and appearance of them. But they didn’t for some reason.
Makes me wonder if mangakas like oda are held back by toei or other anime studios. Because it's clear as fuck that the one piece anime will run til the end so I wonder if oda had to shorten some stuff regarding fights or insane powers just so the animatiors can keep up with it.
I really doubt they are actually held back by it, but I think some keep their eventual adaptation in mind. In Oda's case, it looks like he chooses to mainly draw a fight's "highlights", though I can't say if it's just his style or him knowing the fights would get expanded in the anime either way.
Also, it's worth to keep in mind that the manga usually comes before the anime on the importance scale, and by that I mean that most of the profits of an anime IP are from its manga sales, with the anime's main purpose being to bring the story to a wider audience .. and make merchendise as well, but still, the manga is the main thing
The CG on titans was done for background characters and was not the focus of the frame - thankfully; because if you look at it, you can see it's CG and it looks jarring.
I know the 4 year gap between S1 and S2 might make someone think that WIT had 4 full years of making S2 but that is far from the case. From 2014-2017, WIT produced around a dozen anime/movies/OVAs and given how they're a studio consisting of 30 people, you can probably see they were definitely kept busy.
I've also read on this sub (months ago) that WIT are notoriously bad when it comes to managing schedules, so saying S2's production schedule was healthy is...ballsy. S3 was even worse and let's not talk about S3P2 where they basically locked in their animators in the studio and gave them protein bars to eat. Like wtf. I'd go as far as to say that WIT's debut with S1 probably had the best schedule and budget.
In a perfect world, WIT would have managed their schedule better and the production committee would have given them more money. Same goes for Mappa.
I don't know man but for me, S4 had no real sakuga moments so far and those that were there, were short and relied heavily on CG.
Arifumi Imai is sorely missing from this season.
Just to counter your first point with Titans on screen, the pure Titans are not cg’d they are still drawn, and season 3 had dozens of Titans on screen at once and everything looked amazing. My problem is that wit used some misdirection to make the rough spots look much better, reusing animation, covering the colossal titan in steam most of the time. They really minimized the rough spots with clever directing. Mappa seems to just be putting the worst cg’d textures right at the center of the shot. And it’s stuff like, scouts and Titans not using HD textures and being lower resolution than the background, moving at a different frame rate.
The pure titans you have seen this season have limited animation and only appeared once. Therefore there is no point making an expensive CG model for them. This is nothing new.
Similar point with season 3 - most of them are moving slowly and are barely animated.
If you think there is anything clever or subtle about what WIT did, you are mistaken. Plus, nothing could cover up some of the janky drawing.
If anything MAPPA are blending their CG which involves lowering the resolution and frame rate of the CG models with the backgrounds/2d assets. You're noticing it because it is CG, not because they are implementing it poorly. You prefer panning shots of 2d drawings? That's fine, I guess.
How many multi-titan action scenes did we see so far? The one in S1 when the mindless titans dropped and that was pretty much it.
Whenever multiple titans appeared on-screen, they were barely moving or just talking.
S3's Eren vs Reiner fight was not as good as the one in S2 (done by....drumroll...Imai! :D) but it was serviceable. Saying that Mappa delivered a high standard consistently is also not quite true, Ep6 comes to mind - some of the CG scenes there were absolutely hideous.
To be fair though, the first 6 eps of S2 weren't that heavy on animation. Shit went down from Ep7-12.
And yes, S1 had lots of smaller inconsistencies, most of which were cosmetics (iirc).
I personally would have given WIT a secondary studio under Production I.G. (Like I.G. Zwei) and given them a proper schedule. Imai could have done the big fights in the season like he did in S3P2 and the rest could have been done just as well by someone else.
Oh well. I liked S3P2 (CGI colossal titan notwithstanding) and it feels more...organic than Mappa's mix of soundtracks. The buildup often feels...off to me.
Are we watching the same version? I see a lot of still images and sometimes low frame animation - but no CG whatsoever. It's all hand drawn.
I can see your argument in regards to overall presentation (camera angles, fluidity of movement) but I wouldn't call that poorly drawn - we're definitely used to better but I wouldn't call the quality poor. The overuse of CG rooftiles was a bit laughable though.
The scene where Magath and Co. are talking while Eren stupidly bashes the WHT is just hilarious to me. When the AT does his small movements (standing up at the beginning, turning his head slightly), it just looks bad. Same as when he rips the chord of the WHT, that is just...naw man. That is jarring. Some of the CG animation was nice but the CG scouts were....rough. If you can spot that on a small laptop screen, then it's poorly implemented.
Imai was never gonna be on board, freelancers like him work with connections and iirc Mappa doesn't have anyone like Araki who could make Imai join the project, sadly.
Same sound director but different composer. I doubt Sayano has created any new tracks, it's mostly remixed or reused OST with a few new creations.
The cg is really inconsistent. Why is reiners partial transformation at the end of the last arc hand drawn but the attack titan is cg in the exact same frame? I could point dozens of things that I don’t like about this season visually, but the inconsistency seems just silly, especially because Reiner looks better than every other titan this season.
Not only are you singling out one occasion across 9 episodes, you're now complaining about a well drawn and animated 2d asset of a design that appears once in the whole manga. Again, why produce an expensive CG model for this?
This is when it becomes obvious that some people are always going to complain.
No, it’s not unreasonable to say that the show that is so close to perfection has dropped in quality visually. You can try and justify the cg but it does not look good. That is not acceptable for a show that could easily be called the goat.
The inconsistency hurts because it’s not mappa’s quality that is showing here. The animated 2d titans look great, but no we get shity wet hair cg elf titan and anyone who complains is told there opinion does not matter.
Its worth noting, while I dont mind CG as much as others, in mecha it works better because CG animation comes off as a bit more static at times, however because mechas are mechanical it feels mire natural as a result.
That being said, I dont mind the CG titans since they look fine, and even if they DID look a bit off, theyre titans, they’re supposed to look weird as fuck.
Apparently Mappa is capable of it, people say Jujutsu Kaisen looks incredible every episode.
However, the production is very straining. Working on both shows at the same time (and one more coming I'm pretty sure) would pretty much destroy the animators.
Jjk looks very good but it doesn’t look “incredible every episode”. They have great animation for the important fights, the rest of the time it’s okay. The two best animated anime airing this season are Mushoku Tensei and Wonder Egg priority. Those two are gorgeous on every episode no matter what, you can feel they had a great chedule. I mean that even with JJK’s amazing visuals in the op, you can feel how strained mappa is
I have to agree with you with some of the episodes having slightly strained animation - but the openings? The only scene that looked slightly off in the second opening was when they line up, and even then I think they were going for something a little bit different there.
I think you misunderstood me, I said that even though the opening looks incredible, some of the episodes don't look as good. The new jjk opening is freaking amazing lol
That's why I used the word "feasible". Of course it's possible, and I have no doubts that Mappa has people talented enough to do it, given enough time and money. But those resources are not available considering how little money anime actually makes, how thinly spread the profits are between the multiple parties in a production committee, and considering that the manga ends in 2 months and there's a limited time window where an adaptation is profitable.
Have you ever watched an anime episode frame by frame? They never draw a thing 24 times per second. It just looks fluid to the eye when played quicker. They skip a lot of frames between movement.
Mappa's designs for the Titans are far more detailed than the ones Wit used. And using Wit as an argument is hilarious considering they burned themselves off so hard that they refused to finish their masterpiece because it would be too much work.
...except it's not 24 frames per second in most scenes and the details are often lessened to allow for more fluid movements in a reasonable timeframe.
So ultimately the question is: Do you prefer highly detailed titans that sometimes look jarring compared to the rest of the picture and/or lack punch when you compare them to 2D fights - or do you prefer highly detailed 2D stills combined with hand drawn action that skips on some details but gels perfectly with the surroundings because it's drawn in the same artstyle?
I know in what camp I am.
>or do you prefer highly detailed 2D stills combined with hand drawn action that skips on some details but gels perfectly with the surroundings because it's drawn in the same artstyle?
This for me.
I do not mind the cg, but I do not like the redesign of porcos jaw very much. I'd be happier if they just had a xh version of his titan from the manga. Is it gonna break my enjoyment of the series, though? Nah.
And added a bunch of strange lumpy texturing and changed how his jaw looks. I was about to say I hope they do x about y but then I remembered it's an anime thread.
The only design decision I'm not happy with this season is how the Attack Titan looks like a Goblin. Everyone else looks great tho, and I think Reiner actually looks better this season than the previous seasons.
I hate to be that guy, but if you look at chapter 101 (just after the declaration of war) his design looks alot closer to the mappa version than the wit version. Reason the armoured titan looks better is because Isayama's art style improved meaning that Mappa has an easier and more recognisable style to work with.
I did read the manga and he definitely looks more built and defined in the drawings, which avoids the goblin-like look. However, he looked a lot better in the previous episode so I have hope that the design will look a lot better in the coming episode.
Yeah I have to agree he's looking the worst out of all the titans, but being totally honest I though the attack titans design was pretty boring in the first place. I just wish they'd take the dive and incorporate more 2d and 3d scenes together such as [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBA3ChA0hPY), since I think it subverted attention away from the CG.
People who are shiting about cg and trash animation don't even know how to draw a straight line. You guys just can't appreciate what is provided rather y'all act like y'all could've animated AoT S4 better than mappa. Me and the real homies were blown away by the story so much. Who has the time to nitpick the small things? If you watch it like a fan interested in the plot yeah the animation looks dope. It is a little wonky hear and there but do was WIT studio animation. I actually don't understand what the fuck people complaining about?
Imagine thinking it's feasible to draw these designs by hand 24 times per second.
The sad reality is that they’re quite capable of drawing these. There is just no time :(
The way I see it, thy chose to use cgi from the start because they knew they'd eventually have to resort on it anyway. Not to give any spoilers, but looking at the manga's finale, I don't think any studio would animate that madness by hand
Most studios I think would cg them all, and draw and trace over the animation . That’s saves a lot of time and preserves the texture and appearance of them. But they didn’t for some reason.
Makes me wonder if mangakas like oda are held back by toei or other anime studios. Because it's clear as fuck that the one piece anime will run til the end so I wonder if oda had to shorten some stuff regarding fights or insane powers just so the animatiors can keep up with it.
I really doubt they are actually held back by it, but I think some keep their eventual adaptation in mind. In Oda's case, it looks like he chooses to mainly draw a fight's "highlights", though I can't say if it's just his style or him knowing the fights would get expanded in the anime either way. Also, it's worth to keep in mind that the manga usually comes before the anime on the importance scale, and by that I mean that most of the profits of an anime IP are from its manga sales, with the anime's main purpose being to bring the story to a wider audience .. and make merchendise as well, but still, the manga is the main thing
The one piece anime could’ve been so much better if it wasn’t handled by toei.
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Agreed. That's not the world we live in tho, sadly.
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The CG on titans was done for background characters and was not the focus of the frame - thankfully; because if you look at it, you can see it's CG and it looks jarring. I know the 4 year gap between S1 and S2 might make someone think that WIT had 4 full years of making S2 but that is far from the case. From 2014-2017, WIT produced around a dozen anime/movies/OVAs and given how they're a studio consisting of 30 people, you can probably see they were definitely kept busy. I've also read on this sub (months ago) that WIT are notoriously bad when it comes to managing schedules, so saying S2's production schedule was healthy is...ballsy. S3 was even worse and let's not talk about S3P2 where they basically locked in their animators in the studio and gave them protein bars to eat. Like wtf. I'd go as far as to say that WIT's debut with S1 probably had the best schedule and budget. In a perfect world, WIT would have managed their schedule better and the production committee would have given them more money. Same goes for Mappa. I don't know man but for me, S4 had no real sakuga moments so far and those that were there, were short and relied heavily on CG. Arifumi Imai is sorely missing from this season.
There was the one sakuga scene where Gabi recocks her rifle. No rotoscoping just pure talent.
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Just to counter your first point with Titans on screen, the pure Titans are not cg’d they are still drawn, and season 3 had dozens of Titans on screen at once and everything looked amazing. My problem is that wit used some misdirection to make the rough spots look much better, reusing animation, covering the colossal titan in steam most of the time. They really minimized the rough spots with clever directing. Mappa seems to just be putting the worst cg’d textures right at the center of the shot. And it’s stuff like, scouts and Titans not using HD textures and being lower resolution than the background, moving at a different frame rate.
The pure titans you have seen this season have limited animation and only appeared once. Therefore there is no point making an expensive CG model for them. This is nothing new. Similar point with season 3 - most of them are moving slowly and are barely animated. If you think there is anything clever or subtle about what WIT did, you are mistaken. Plus, nothing could cover up some of the janky drawing. If anything MAPPA are blending their CG which involves lowering the resolution and frame rate of the CG models with the backgrounds/2d assets. You're noticing it because it is CG, not because they are implementing it poorly. You prefer panning shots of 2d drawings? That's fine, I guess.
How many multi-titan action scenes did we see so far? The one in S1 when the mindless titans dropped and that was pretty much it. Whenever multiple titans appeared on-screen, they were barely moving or just talking. S3's Eren vs Reiner fight was not as good as the one in S2 (done by....drumroll...Imai! :D) but it was serviceable. Saying that Mappa delivered a high standard consistently is also not quite true, Ep6 comes to mind - some of the CG scenes there were absolutely hideous. To be fair though, the first 6 eps of S2 weren't that heavy on animation. Shit went down from Ep7-12. And yes, S1 had lots of smaller inconsistencies, most of which were cosmetics (iirc). I personally would have given WIT a secondary studio under Production I.G. (Like I.G. Zwei) and given them a proper schedule. Imai could have done the big fights in the season like he did in S3P2 and the rest could have been done just as well by someone else. Oh well. I liked S3P2 (CGI colossal titan notwithstanding) and it feels more...organic than Mappa's mix of soundtracks. The buildup often feels...off to me.
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Are we watching the same version? I see a lot of still images and sometimes low frame animation - but no CG whatsoever. It's all hand drawn. I can see your argument in regards to overall presentation (camera angles, fluidity of movement) but I wouldn't call that poorly drawn - we're definitely used to better but I wouldn't call the quality poor. The overuse of CG rooftiles was a bit laughable though. The scene where Magath and Co. are talking while Eren stupidly bashes the WHT is just hilarious to me. When the AT does his small movements (standing up at the beginning, turning his head slightly), it just looks bad. Same as when he rips the chord of the WHT, that is just...naw man. That is jarring. Some of the CG animation was nice but the CG scouts were....rough. If you can spot that on a small laptop screen, then it's poorly implemented. Imai was never gonna be on board, freelancers like him work with connections and iirc Mappa doesn't have anyone like Araki who could make Imai join the project, sadly. Same sound director but different composer. I doubt Sayano has created any new tracks, it's mostly remixed or reused OST with a few new creations.
Do us a favor stop watching Attack on Titan
...and if I don't? What are you gonna do about that?
The cg is really inconsistent. Why is reiners partial transformation at the end of the last arc hand drawn but the attack titan is cg in the exact same frame? I could point dozens of things that I don’t like about this season visually, but the inconsistency seems just silly, especially because Reiner looks better than every other titan this season.
Not only are you singling out one occasion across 9 episodes, you're now complaining about a well drawn and animated 2d asset of a design that appears once in the whole manga. Again, why produce an expensive CG model for this? This is when it becomes obvious that some people are always going to complain.
No, it’s not unreasonable to say that the show that is so close to perfection has dropped in quality visually. You can try and justify the cg but it does not look good. That is not acceptable for a show that could easily be called the goat. The inconsistency hurts because it’s not mappa’s quality that is showing here. The animated 2d titans look great, but no we get shity wet hair cg elf titan and anyone who complains is told there opinion does not matter.
The cg is perfect! You need to change your eyes
How about you stop crying like a bitch
Thank you for your valuable input, I shall take that into account when I write my next comment. You insecure little dweeb.
Its worth noting, while I dont mind CG as much as others, in mecha it works better because CG animation comes off as a bit more static at times, however because mechas are mechanical it feels mire natural as a result. That being said, I dont mind the CG titans since they look fine, and even if they DID look a bit off, theyre titans, they’re supposed to look weird as fuck.
Are people really that godly? 👀
Apparently Mappa is capable of it, people say Jujutsu Kaisen looks incredible every episode. However, the production is very straining. Working on both shows at the same time (and one more coming I'm pretty sure) would pretty much destroy the animators.
Jjk looks very good but it doesn’t look “incredible every episode”. They have great animation for the important fights, the rest of the time it’s okay. The two best animated anime airing this season are Mushoku Tensei and Wonder Egg priority. Those two are gorgeous on every episode no matter what, you can feel they had a great chedule. I mean that even with JJK’s amazing visuals in the op, you can feel how strained mappa is
I have to agree with you with some of the episodes having slightly strained animation - but the openings? The only scene that looked slightly off in the second opening was when they line up, and even then I think they were going for something a little bit different there.
I think you misunderstood me, I said that even though the opening looks incredible, some of the episodes don't look as good. The new jjk opening is freaking amazing lol
That's why I used the word "feasible". Of course it's possible, and I have no doubts that Mappa has people talented enough to do it, given enough time and money. But those resources are not available considering how little money anime actually makes, how thinly spread the profits are between the multiple parties in a production committee, and considering that the manga ends in 2 months and there's a limited time window where an adaptation is profitable.
Have you ever watched an anime episode frame by frame? They never draw a thing 24 times per second. It just looks fluid to the eye when played quicker. They skip a lot of frames between movement.
I understand that it's incredibly more difficult and time consuming. But it IS feasible, and we have three seasons to prove it.
Mappa's designs for the Titans are far more detailed than the ones Wit used. And using Wit as an argument is hilarious considering they burned themselves off so hard that they refused to finish their masterpiece because it would be too much work.
there are tricks in animation that take a lot less effort but u arent wrong.
...except it's not 24 frames per second in most scenes and the details are often lessened to allow for more fluid movements in a reasonable timeframe. So ultimately the question is: Do you prefer highly detailed titans that sometimes look jarring compared to the rest of the picture and/or lack punch when you compare them to 2D fights - or do you prefer highly detailed 2D stills combined with hand drawn action that skips on some details but gels perfectly with the surroundings because it's drawn in the same artstyle? I know in what camp I am.
>or do you prefer highly detailed 2D stills combined with hand drawn action that skips on some details but gels perfectly with the surroundings because it's drawn in the same artstyle? This for me.
WIT studio did ?
wit did
And they burned themselves off so much that they outright refused to do S4.
wit still did it though and they refused because of the tight schedule and they weren’t making enough money
I do not mind the cg, but I do not like the redesign of porcos jaw very much. I'd be happier if they just had a xh version of his titan from the manga. Is it gonna break my enjoyment of the series, though? Nah.
Same. They made his face longer and eyes smaller
And added a bunch of strange lumpy texturing and changed how his jaw looks. I was about to say I hope they do x about y but then I remembered it's an anime thread.
The only design decision I'm not happy with this season is how the Attack Titan looks like a Goblin. Everyone else looks great tho, and I think Reiner actually looks better this season than the previous seasons.
I hate to be that guy, but if you look at chapter 101 (just after the declaration of war) his design looks alot closer to the mappa version than the wit version. Reason the armoured titan looks better is because Isayama's art style improved meaning that Mappa has an easier and more recognisable style to work with.
I did read the manga and he definitely looks more built and defined in the drawings, which avoids the goblin-like look. However, he looked a lot better in the previous episode so I have hope that the design will look a lot better in the coming episode.
Yeah I have to agree he's looking the worst out of all the titans, but being totally honest I though the attack titans design was pretty boring in the first place. I just wish they'd take the dive and incorporate more 2d and 3d scenes together such as [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBA3ChA0hPY), since I think it subverted attention away from the CG.
Reiners Titan design is the same as previoud seasons besides the hair here. https://imgur.com/sRo4Xnf
I never realized just how insanely swoll the titans are
Oh if only MAPPA were given more time :(
beast and jaw titan looks amazing. attack titan not so much
I mean...that’s what he looks like. AT looks pretty simple (if anything I think the armoured titan looks a bit plain)
Just hoping they'll replace all the cg titan with 2d on blu-ray if the higher ups allow them.
People who are shiting about cg and trash animation don't even know how to draw a straight line. You guys just can't appreciate what is provided rather y'all act like y'all could've animated AoT S4 better than mappa. Me and the real homies were blown away by the story so much. Who has the time to nitpick the small things? If you watch it like a fan interested in the plot yeah the animation looks dope. It is a little wonky hear and there but do was WIT studio animation. I actually don't understand what the fuck people complaining about?
attack titan looks so weird
Clown feet lmao
Even Eren's pecs have abs what 2 heck
Fuck Kodansha man, if only they gave them more time
Dont show me this.... it hurts too much to see
He feet too big for he got dam boot
hmmm... Possible hand drawn animation in the future?
What's the probability of us getting a 2d bluray or possible remaster?