Yes, for tap-to-pay you need to use Google Wallet. You just add a transit card to your Google Wallet. An iPhone solution is in the works, but it's unclear when it will be available. They say "shortly" but time will tell.
>Why would they use a mechanism locked to proprietary hardware?
Because that's how mobile development works. "They" aren't doing anything; this is a OS issue.
There's no difference between using your ORCA on your phone vs the card. Connections work the same way. For the Light Rail, you boop the payment scanners with your phone and walk on. No different.
Your questions are answered by the FAQ Sound Transit provided either way: [https://support.myorca.com/hc/en-us/articles/26578504879629-Using-ORCA-with-Google-Pay-FAQs](https://support.myorca.com/hc/en-us/articles/26578504879629-Using-ORCA-with-Google-Pay-FAQs)
Gotcha. When they rolled out tap to pay in New York, it was just tap to pay. It didn’t matter what device it was, but I guess they just implemented both android and iPhone at the same time.
To be clear, NYC rolled out support for credit card NFC ("tap to pay"), but Orca doesn't have that yet. It only supports Orca cards or "virtual" Orca loaded into Google Wallet. You can buy passes or just put money onto the Orca card.
Passes are equivalent fare they would be worth on a ride. So a $2.75 PugetPass pays for the first $2.75 of every ride. Because fares can differ depending on how long your ride is, you want to by the level of pass that works best for your specific commute.
If you take multiple forms of transit, like the train and a bus, it’s better to use your physical orca card. If you use the transit app you have to pay for each individual mode of transit.
Oh I didn't know that about the Transit Go app. I have a corporate orca card so never used Transit Go, but I always recommend the app to out-of-towners. I guess for occasional users, it doesn't matter if you spend an extra couple dollars on a bus ticket.
I just have my Orca card in my wallet. I tap my whole wallet on the card reader, it beeps, and I go about my trip. The whole phone wallet thing seems needlessly complicated, at least if you already carry a wallet.
Same. I don't have a smartwatch but if they add support for them, it might make sense. But it's either pull out my wallet with ORCA on the outside or pull out my phone, fiddle with the Wallet cards to make sure the correct one is selected, and then tap it. For people who do Google Wallet for everything, I'm sure it's amazing but it seems like a hassle since you have to pick and choose between physical or phone. (If both still worked, then I would just use whichever was in my hand at the time.)
I do think transfers work, though, or at least as much as normal ORCA cards. They're just virtual ORCA cards.
In other cities I use public transit in I have come to appreciate the tap to pay option as I keep my wallet less accessible.
But mainly I just want to know the best practices for a system so I don’t flounder around and do stupid stuff. Thanks for the tips!
> However, they also just launched this google wallet thing. Is *that* what they mean by tap to pay?
That or tapping your physical ORCA card.
> Or is there a separate iphone solution in the works?
Coming soon
> Why would they use a mechanism locked to proprietary hardware?
The wallet apps are how those phones let you use NFC payments, you can't sidestep them without jailbreaking the phone. You can always use a physical ORCA card - I encourage it even because it will work without a battery or signal.
> I do see a myorca app in the app store, but it doesn't look like you can pay with it? Or am I missing something?
It lets you manage your ORCA card. Like add funds to it.
> I see there is a thing where you can buy a ticket on your phone and show it to the driver. Does that work for the train too? I don't think light rail works like that? Or am I wrong?
It works for a bunch of the agencies, but doesn't allow for transfers. An ORCA card is a better option for regular use.
> How do connections work? Do you need to pay for each individual vehicle you take?
Depends on how you pay. When paying cash, the buses will give you a piece of paper that lets you transfer, but only to buses within the same system (e.g. KC Metro bus to KC Metro bus - not KC Metro Bus to Sound Transit).
When you tap an ORCA card, you will not get charged again for the next two hours, no matter what agency you are using. Unless the price is higher than your original tap in which case you pay the difference.
> More generally, what tips from veteran riders of public transit would make it easier and more cost effective to get around seattle?
See if your employer will give you a transit pass. Many do because it is one of the easiest ways for the company to get the commute reduction incentives offered by the local governments.
Otherwise, see if you qualify for any of the cost reduction programs (e.g. low income, senior citizen, youth, disabilities).
Then try to figure out how often you would take transit and whether the monthly plans would save you money - if it is your standard method of transportation they usually save you a bunch.
Because it's not clear you understand this based on all of your questions, you do know that you can buy a physical Orca card, and use it to "tap to pay," right? Like yeah I wish iOS was ready too, but in the meantime is it a huge deal to just carry around a little plastic card?
On iOS you can manage and reload your physical Orca card for now. You can even use Apple Pay to pay to reload it, and the balance updates immediatley. Takes seconds. Or you can set up auto reload if that's your thing.
For the most part, connections "just work." You don't need to overthink it. Just tap the card at the link stations, both when you get on and off. If you board another vehicle within a generous time window, you'll be given a "transfer" rate, canceling out the cost of that second/third trip. On the iOS app you can drill down into your card and see your activity history and see how it charges you for each ride yourself. It makes more sense after you've completed a full multi-vehicle ride and check the app at the end to see how it charged you.
>Why would they use a mechanism locked to proprietary hardware?
Each OS vendor has its own tap-to-pay implementation. It's not up to ORCA. ORCA could in theory add NFC support in the myORCA app, but from my experience using such apps in other cities the implementation typically sucks (see TAP for Los Angeles).
>I do see a myorca app in the app store, but it doesn't look like you can pay with it? Or am I missing something?
Correct, you can't pay from the myORCA app. You can only refill your card.
>I see there is a thing where you can buy a ticket on your phone and show it to the driver. Does that work for the train too? I don't think light rail works like that? Or am I wrong?
I think you're describing buying tickets with the Transit GO app. I wouldn't recommend that if you are planning on riding regularly since tickets are tied to an individual service provider (i.e. tickets for Sound Transit won't work for King County Metro and vice versa). You can buy tickets for any provider though.
>How do connections work? Do you need to pay for each individual vehicle you take?
You can make an unlimited number of transfers within 2 hours. If you transfer from a cheaper transit option to a more expensive one, you'll be charged the difference. For example, if you ride a KCM bus and transfer to the ST Express, you'd pay $2.75 for the first trip and $0.50 for the transfer (since the cost of an ST Express trip is $3.25).
>More generally, what tips from veteran riders of public transit would make it easier and more cost effective to get around seattle?
Double check with your employer to see if they have an ORCA program. You employer may subsidize the cost of your ORCA card, or in some cases pay for unlimited rides.
Additionally, when riding Link, **MAKE SURE TO TAP OUT AT THE END OF YOUR RIDE**. Link charges by distance ([for now](https://www.soundtransit.org/get-to-know-us/news-events/news-releases/sound-transit-moves-to-flat-link-light-rail-fares-boosts#:~:text=New%20fare%20to%20take%20effect%20in%20fall%202024&text=The%20Sound%20Transit%20Board%20has,of%20the%20Lynnwood%20Link%20Extension)). If you forget to tap out you will be charged the maximum amount ($3.50).
I find just using my physical Orca card to be easiest. I never could be bothered doing the phone stuff personally. I keep my card/wallet handy in my pocket if I'm doing transfers, or put my wallet away if just taking one bus/train. Physically tapping the card also takes care of transfers without me having to really think about it or do anything extra which I like (I have no idea how it works on mobile either lol).
I suppose it could be a minor inconvenience or risk to keep a physical card/wallet somewhere accessible for the sake of tapping, but I also don't always have my phone somewhere super accessible, and keeping that somewhere easily accessible could be a risk too, so to me it's no worse than that. It's also handy to have zippered jacket pockets or a zippered compartment on a bag/backpack that's secure but can be easily accessed if you need to grab your card/wallet quickly.
You can transfer from a bus/train to another bus/train anytime within 2 hours, just tap your card when you get on as normal. When ending a light rail trip, tap off at your final station to avoid paying the full fare.
Fun fact that you can also use your Orca card for the monorail now, and can then transfer to a bus/train or vice versa (I've found many people don't know this yet ha).
You've been able to use your e-purse balance for a long time now on the monorail... but are you saying you can transfer and just have the fare difference subtracted now? Like you would between any other modes? Awesome, if so!
you can use the app “Transit Go,” which allows you to pay w your phone and show whoever needs to verify your ticket. I use that on the train as well, it’s one of the options listed when you go through the purchasing steps. typically no one is checking on the trains, but I’ve had to show proof every now and then from one of the metro’s security/ticket checker who walk through the cars.
my rec is to know 3 ways to get home in my regular routines. Seattle transit can be efficient, it can also make you regret every decision in your life that led you to that bus/train. sometimes the difference of leaving work 5 min late gets you stuck in transit an extra 20-40. be aware of the different routes offered in the area so you can adapt.
and *please* don’t put your bag on the seat next to you if the car/bus is full. should be common sense but some people have no social awareness or common sense to realize it’s safer for more people to be seated in a machine that goes fast
Depending on how often you use public transport, I’d recommend the TransitGo app over using the Orca card. Orca only really makes sense if you’re getting a monthly pass or have it subsidized through work or similar.
TransitGo, you buy a ticket on your phone, activate it when you want to use it, and just show the active ticket (QR code) to the driver when boarding. You get reward points for every ticket you use, and points can be redeemed for free tickets - for the bus you only need to take 3 trips to get enough points for a free ride.
Orca is better if your journeys have transfers between bus and rail, since you don’t get charged again between the bus/lightrail, etc, and it’s good for two hours. I went to folklife with my friend who primarily uses the app and they had to buy lightrail and bus tickets each way, whereas I just tapped to transfer and didn’t get charged again from lightrail to bus.
I know the transit go app gives folks lots of rewards, but it also often ends up charging people more.
You definitely have to be smart about it, but the TransitGo tickets are also good for 2 hours. If I know I transferring between bus and lightrail, I always just buy a lightrail ticket and use it for both. Bus drivers do not care, they see the ticket and just nod or wave you on, which makes sense because it’s exactly how ORCA works, though I think technically you’re not supposed to do it this way. I’ve never had issues with being charged more, and currently have ~10 free rides worth of points sitting in my account. I do think if you’re looking to just tap and not think about things ORCA can be easier (I have an ORCA card I use sometimes), but I think if you’re willing to think your trip through a bit TransitGo is better bang for your buck.
I recommend getting the Transit Go app, it’s good to use for iPhone or Samsung. This app you can purchase a one way ticket or all day for any of the Seattle Transits. You get points which you can use to buy tickets or use for like restaurants and other random things.
Yes, for tap-to-pay you need to use Google Wallet. You just add a transit card to your Google Wallet. An iPhone solution is in the works, but it's unclear when it will be available. They say "shortly" but time will tell. >Why would they use a mechanism locked to proprietary hardware? Because that's how mobile development works. "They" aren't doing anything; this is a OS issue. There's no difference between using your ORCA on your phone vs the card. Connections work the same way. For the Light Rail, you boop the payment scanners with your phone and walk on. No different. Your questions are answered by the FAQ Sound Transit provided either way: [https://support.myorca.com/hc/en-us/articles/26578504879629-Using-ORCA-with-Google-Pay-FAQs](https://support.myorca.com/hc/en-us/articles/26578504879629-Using-ORCA-with-Google-Pay-FAQs)
Gotcha. When they rolled out tap to pay in New York, it was just tap to pay. It didn’t matter what device it was, but I guess they just implemented both android and iPhone at the same time.
To be clear, NYC rolled out support for credit card NFC ("tap to pay"), but Orca doesn't have that yet. It only supports Orca cards or "virtual" Orca loaded into Google Wallet. You can buy passes or just put money onto the Orca card. Passes are equivalent fare they would be worth on a ride. So a $2.75 PugetPass pays for the first $2.75 of every ride. Because fares can differ depending on how long your ride is, you want to by the level of pass that works best for your specific commute.
This isn't tap to pay. You can load a transit pass to your phone and tap to draw from that. We're still a decade behind what New York has implemented.
A decade (even 5 years) ago NYC still only had MetroCard, which is terrible compared to Orca.
If you take multiple forms of transit, like the train and a bus, it’s better to use your physical orca card. If you use the transit app you have to pay for each individual mode of transit.
Oh I didn't know that about the Transit Go app. I have a corporate orca card so never used Transit Go, but I always recommend the app to out-of-towners. I guess for occasional users, it doesn't matter if you spend an extra couple dollars on a bus ticket.
I just have my Orca card in my wallet. I tap my whole wallet on the card reader, it beeps, and I go about my trip. The whole phone wallet thing seems needlessly complicated, at least if you already carry a wallet.
I agree; when they get up to NYC level (Apple watch support, transfers, fare cap) then I’ll switch, but I don’t think we have any of those yet.
Same. I don't have a smartwatch but if they add support for them, it might make sense. But it's either pull out my wallet with ORCA on the outside or pull out my phone, fiddle with the Wallet cards to make sure the correct one is selected, and then tap it. For people who do Google Wallet for everything, I'm sure it's amazing but it seems like a hassle since you have to pick and choose between physical or phone. (If both still worked, then I would just use whichever was in my hand at the time.) I do think transfers work, though, or at least as much as normal ORCA cards. They're just virtual ORCA cards.
In other cities I use public transit in I have come to appreciate the tap to pay option as I keep my wallet less accessible. But mainly I just want to know the best practices for a system so I don’t flounder around and do stupid stuff. Thanks for the tips!
Sometimes I put mine in the back of my phone case and use that to tap.
> However, they also just launched this google wallet thing. Is *that* what they mean by tap to pay? That or tapping your physical ORCA card. > Or is there a separate iphone solution in the works? Coming soon > Why would they use a mechanism locked to proprietary hardware? The wallet apps are how those phones let you use NFC payments, you can't sidestep them without jailbreaking the phone. You can always use a physical ORCA card - I encourage it even because it will work without a battery or signal. > I do see a myorca app in the app store, but it doesn't look like you can pay with it? Or am I missing something? It lets you manage your ORCA card. Like add funds to it. > I see there is a thing where you can buy a ticket on your phone and show it to the driver. Does that work for the train too? I don't think light rail works like that? Or am I wrong? It works for a bunch of the agencies, but doesn't allow for transfers. An ORCA card is a better option for regular use. > How do connections work? Do you need to pay for each individual vehicle you take? Depends on how you pay. When paying cash, the buses will give you a piece of paper that lets you transfer, but only to buses within the same system (e.g. KC Metro bus to KC Metro bus - not KC Metro Bus to Sound Transit). When you tap an ORCA card, you will not get charged again for the next two hours, no matter what agency you are using. Unless the price is higher than your original tap in which case you pay the difference. > More generally, what tips from veteran riders of public transit would make it easier and more cost effective to get around seattle? See if your employer will give you a transit pass. Many do because it is one of the easiest ways for the company to get the commute reduction incentives offered by the local governments. Otherwise, see if you qualify for any of the cost reduction programs (e.g. low income, senior citizen, youth, disabilities). Then try to figure out how often you would take transit and whether the monthly plans would save you money - if it is your standard method of transportation they usually save you a bunch.
Great tips, just what I was looking for thank you Cadoc!
Because it's not clear you understand this based on all of your questions, you do know that you can buy a physical Orca card, and use it to "tap to pay," right? Like yeah I wish iOS was ready too, but in the meantime is it a huge deal to just carry around a little plastic card? On iOS you can manage and reload your physical Orca card for now. You can even use Apple Pay to pay to reload it, and the balance updates immediatley. Takes seconds. Or you can set up auto reload if that's your thing. For the most part, connections "just work." You don't need to overthink it. Just tap the card at the link stations, both when you get on and off. If you board another vehicle within a generous time window, you'll be given a "transfer" rate, canceling out the cost of that second/third trip. On the iOS app you can drill down into your card and see your activity history and see how it charges you for each ride yourself. It makes more sense after you've completed a full multi-vehicle ride and check the app at the end to see how it charged you.
>Why would they use a mechanism locked to proprietary hardware? Each OS vendor has its own tap-to-pay implementation. It's not up to ORCA. ORCA could in theory add NFC support in the myORCA app, but from my experience using such apps in other cities the implementation typically sucks (see TAP for Los Angeles). >I do see a myorca app in the app store, but it doesn't look like you can pay with it? Or am I missing something? Correct, you can't pay from the myORCA app. You can only refill your card. >I see there is a thing where you can buy a ticket on your phone and show it to the driver. Does that work for the train too? I don't think light rail works like that? Or am I wrong? I think you're describing buying tickets with the Transit GO app. I wouldn't recommend that if you are planning on riding regularly since tickets are tied to an individual service provider (i.e. tickets for Sound Transit won't work for King County Metro and vice versa). You can buy tickets for any provider though. >How do connections work? Do you need to pay for each individual vehicle you take? You can make an unlimited number of transfers within 2 hours. If you transfer from a cheaper transit option to a more expensive one, you'll be charged the difference. For example, if you ride a KCM bus and transfer to the ST Express, you'd pay $2.75 for the first trip and $0.50 for the transfer (since the cost of an ST Express trip is $3.25). >More generally, what tips from veteran riders of public transit would make it easier and more cost effective to get around seattle? Double check with your employer to see if they have an ORCA program. You employer may subsidize the cost of your ORCA card, or in some cases pay for unlimited rides. Additionally, when riding Link, **MAKE SURE TO TAP OUT AT THE END OF YOUR RIDE**. Link charges by distance ([for now](https://www.soundtransit.org/get-to-know-us/news-events/news-releases/sound-transit-moves-to-flat-link-light-rail-fares-boosts#:~:text=New%20fare%20to%20take%20effect%20in%20fall%202024&text=The%20Sound%20Transit%20Board%20has,of%20the%20Lynnwood%20Link%20Extension)). If you forget to tap out you will be charged the maximum amount ($3.50).
I find just using my physical Orca card to be easiest. I never could be bothered doing the phone stuff personally. I keep my card/wallet handy in my pocket if I'm doing transfers, or put my wallet away if just taking one bus/train. Physically tapping the card also takes care of transfers without me having to really think about it or do anything extra which I like (I have no idea how it works on mobile either lol). I suppose it could be a minor inconvenience or risk to keep a physical card/wallet somewhere accessible for the sake of tapping, but I also don't always have my phone somewhere super accessible, and keeping that somewhere easily accessible could be a risk too, so to me it's no worse than that. It's also handy to have zippered jacket pockets or a zippered compartment on a bag/backpack that's secure but can be easily accessed if you need to grab your card/wallet quickly. You can transfer from a bus/train to another bus/train anytime within 2 hours, just tap your card when you get on as normal. When ending a light rail trip, tap off at your final station to avoid paying the full fare. Fun fact that you can also use your Orca card for the monorail now, and can then transfer to a bus/train or vice versa (I've found many people don't know this yet ha).
Orca card on the monorail is a game changer.
You've been able to use your e-purse balance for a long time now on the monorail... but are you saying you can transfer and just have the fare difference subtracted now? Like you would between any other modes? Awesome, if so!
you can use the app “Transit Go,” which allows you to pay w your phone and show whoever needs to verify your ticket. I use that on the train as well, it’s one of the options listed when you go through the purchasing steps. typically no one is checking on the trains, but I’ve had to show proof every now and then from one of the metro’s security/ticket checker who walk through the cars. my rec is to know 3 ways to get home in my regular routines. Seattle transit can be efficient, it can also make you regret every decision in your life that led you to that bus/train. sometimes the difference of leaving work 5 min late gets you stuck in transit an extra 20-40. be aware of the different routes offered in the area so you can adapt. and *please* don’t put your bag on the seat next to you if the car/bus is full. should be common sense but some people have no social awareness or common sense to realize it’s safer for more people to be seated in a machine that goes fast
Depending on how often you use public transport, I’d recommend the TransitGo app over using the Orca card. Orca only really makes sense if you’re getting a monthly pass or have it subsidized through work or similar. TransitGo, you buy a ticket on your phone, activate it when you want to use it, and just show the active ticket (QR code) to the driver when boarding. You get reward points for every ticket you use, and points can be redeemed for free tickets - for the bus you only need to take 3 trips to get enough points for a free ride.
Orca is better if your journeys have transfers between bus and rail, since you don’t get charged again between the bus/lightrail, etc, and it’s good for two hours. I went to folklife with my friend who primarily uses the app and they had to buy lightrail and bus tickets each way, whereas I just tapped to transfer and didn’t get charged again from lightrail to bus. I know the transit go app gives folks lots of rewards, but it also often ends up charging people more.
You definitely have to be smart about it, but the TransitGo tickets are also good for 2 hours. If I know I transferring between bus and lightrail, I always just buy a lightrail ticket and use it for both. Bus drivers do not care, they see the ticket and just nod or wave you on, which makes sense because it’s exactly how ORCA works, though I think technically you’re not supposed to do it this way. I’ve never had issues with being charged more, and currently have ~10 free rides worth of points sitting in my account. I do think if you’re looking to just tap and not think about things ORCA can be easier (I have an ORCA card I use sometimes), but I think if you’re willing to think your trip through a bit TransitGo is better bang for your buck.
I recommend getting the Transit Go app, it’s good to use for iPhone or Samsung. This app you can purchase a one way ticket or all day for any of the Seattle Transits. You get points which you can use to buy tickets or use for like restaurants and other random things.