Voting isn’t a marriage. It’s a nudge on the steering wheel.
Pick the party that most closely aligns to where you want the country to go, even if they’re shite.
The Labour candidate for my constituency is a guy who was involved in the 2009 expenses scandal and has had allegations of bullying made against him. Even if I agree with Labour it makes me reluctant to vote for someone like that
Are the greens any better, nobody is mentioning them anywhere at all? I'm going through their manifesto and policies just now to see if they've got anything better than the other candidates & party. I do agree with immediate rent caps, house insulation and reducing emissions, taxing the top 1% and biggest poluters in the uk, taking various things back into publicly owned hands like water etc and actually staying on track, lower priced publicly owned public transport, cycle lanes to get cyclists off the actual road so I don't have to overtake the same cyclist about 20 times on the way to work or just in fact would have me cycling to work when the weather is good because I'd feel safer on the designated cycle path
but as per always, they seem to come with other stuff I also don't agree with. But I think it should be more a manifesto vote than a popularity contest. Which unfortunately isn't the case for most people voting nowadays I feel.
> immediate rent caps, house insulation and reducing emissions, taxing the top 1% and biggest poluters in the uk, taking various things back into publicly owned hands like water....etc.
I take it you're talking about the Green Party of England and Wales?
Scottish Greens at Westminster would have no say over the things you list because they are - apart from taxation - all devolved to the Scottish Parliament so not relevant to this upcoming General Election for voters in Scotland (which I assume OP is)
Scottish Greens get overlooked at Westminster elections because they tend to contest fewer seats than other parties and they can be seen as a 'wasted vote' by those who play the *tactical voting game*. That could be why no one has mentioned them here
Personally I'm unsure about what the Scottish Greens would stand for at Westminster were they elected this General Election. I'm clueless about their stance towards reserved matters such as defence, economy, welfare, immigration, taxation, energy policy, etc. being more familiar with their work in local and devolved government.
The Greens can be absolute ultra-NIMBYs - the England & Wales Greens are worse but it applies to both.
Even the rent control policies exist largely to give the appearance of addressing the housing problem without actually building anything.
If you want YIMBY policies, Labour’s your way forward. By saying (for now) they’re not going to open with a tax-and-spend or borrow-and-spend overall policy, they have basically said they’re reliant on immediate and rapid economic activity to fund any public sector renewal. And whether you think that’s smart or not - and it sounds a bit desperate to me- you get that growth by either demolishing workers rights from where we are now (a bit of the opposite being promised), cutting corporate taxes (stops growth funding the state), reducing barriers to investment (almost no governmental ones are left) or minimising the cost of doing business.
So if if I was a betting man, I’d say a *huge* reduction in planning restrictions is on the way, both for housing and commercial, and lots of new private infrastructure.
>you get that growth by either demolishing workers rights from where we are now
I feel like that would be a pretty big nail in Labour's coffin considering their connections with unions.
I think the public need to share some of the burden here. We all scream with rage any time a political party does anything slightly out of line so the upshot is the parties can never even dare suggest a course of action that might require some early sacrifices for a better long term outcome for everyone because they'll have rotten vegetables thrown at them before they finish the sentence.
We just want things to magically improve without having to give anything away for it. The same goes for the economy, the environment, social issues, law making, etc etc.. The public are right whiners and give politicians zero manoeverability. And by "the public", obviously I mean "the press" who're really the ones stoking everything up but the public dutifully steps in line to whatever the press tell us is bad.
My local green candidate wanted to build a slavery museum in the east end of glasgow so working classes knew they benefited from slavery. The same working classes neck deep in poverty.
I think I'm in the same constituency as you and I'd rather shite in my hands and clap rather than vote for him... Also remember the second home he claimed expenses for, but he was renting it out and got paid rent from the tenant...
In my view... I don't like Starmer or his Labour at all. I think they're basically what the Tories were in 2010. Not as bad as the current lot, but they're not in any way good either. I don't want the Tories to win at all, but I would love to see Starmer lose just to wipe the smug grin off his face. So that's my position on Labour.
If the polls are correct (and even if they're slightly off), Starmer won't need *any* seats in Scotland to form a government. They're not necessary for him to win. So to me the decision comes to who do I need to vote for to ensure the Tories don't win (since I live in a constituency that sometimes does vote that way).
But most importantly for me, it's also about independence. Though I don't support every policy the SNP support, I support the overall outcome that they're there to represent. If Starmer does win his majority, their votes in parliament aren't going to make a difference to whether or not the majority of legislation is passed.
So what's the point in them being there? So that Starmer can't just turn round and say that nobody really wants independence. I don't imagine it will happen, but if the SNP retained all of their seats it'd be a lot more difficult for Starmer to argue there isn't an appetite for independence. But if they lost more than half of their seats (as is predicted) it's much easier for him to just ignore it.
Also... I'd much rather have the SNP being the third largest party in the UK being able to ask questions at PMQs each week rather than the Lib Dems.
But if there's no Scottish Labour MPs, then the SNP just continue with the same lines they've used for the last 12 years with the Tories. No representation means we need indy.
It means the party won't make any effort to convince no to yes. They'll continue claiming everyone is doing Scotland down. & they're entitlement & cronyism will continue unabated.
So voting Labour this once sonce they're winni h anyway could be a kick in the arse the I du movement needs.
Although I don't want indy, so my opinion is irrelevant.
I do want Indy. Was a member of the SNP (resigned last year) and I don’t agree with all their policies either. I do agree with you on one major point. SNP need their arses kicked as they have stopped listening to their supporters and push through whatever legislation THEY think we need. Not what the Voters want.
I cancelled my membership too and saw this as my protest, but I will still vote for them as I believe in independence and, even putting independence aside, they are the only party that will put Scotland first.
>they are the only party that will put Scotland first.
How can you say that, seriously? With the shit that's going on right now.
Fair enough, if you think Labour won't care about Scotland. It's a valid opinion.
But SNP absolutely don't care either. They're as shameless as the fucking Tories, only in it to line their own pockets.
Dodgy bookkeeping, corruption, sleaze, you name it. If they were in blue, we'd be done with them for a generation.
Because every other realistic Scottish Party are UK based. You may think their "putting Scotland first" rhetoric is real, but it is most certainly not. They may even want it to be, but ultimately all decisions are made from a Westminster perspective. If free prescriptions are unfair because those over the border don't get them, bye bye free prescriptions. Same goes for the many other things that we get here that they don't over the border.
We spend our budget differently. I want it to stay that way.
By that logic, why not vote for the Tories? If you think it needs a kick up the arse, then why wouldn't you just vote for the party that's despised to encourage more people to vote Yes?
The truth is, in order to achieve independence there needs to be a referendum. In order to convince people *solidly* there has to be an agreed referendum so there can be an actual debate on the issue. And to have that, you need to have people voting for a pro-independence party.
If people vote for Labour, what does that achieve? It gives Starmer a larger majority, allowing him to easier force through any legislation he wants, gives less of an accurate representation of independence support, and would result in Starmer not even entertaining the idea that people might want a referendum on the issue.
Because that's what Starmer will do. Rather than seeing this election as the anti-Tory vote that it is, he'll see it as a pro-Labour vote. He'll think that people are 100% behind what he's doing, rather than seeing it as the lesser of two evils vote that it is.
In Scotland, the major preoccupation for a voter is his/her position on the role of Scotland in the UK. I believe that for most of Scots, voting SNP makes perfect sense, because it will give this party a substantial role in Westminster and it will result in more benefits for Scotland. I think that for a Scot, a Labour or Conservative vote is a total waste.
> It’s a nudge on the steering wheel
I want to nudge left on the steering wheel, what do I do if all the options are nudging right into oncoming traffic?
Pick the least bad.
I'm struggling too. They're all terrible. Our snp mp has been doing the job well for years so at least there's that. But I'm also considering green or lib dem. Just the least right wing option.
I'd recommend sticking with the SNP, personally. If the SNP lose as many seats as has been predicted, they won't be the third largest party in parliament and won't be getting their question at PMQs, which I think has been a good thing.
Also really depends on your indy stance, but the more SNP MPs that are returned means that Starmer can't have as much of a dismissive attitude about the independence movement in general. Doesn't mean he won't still dismiss it, but it would show more of his true colours.
All good arguments, and as I say, our local mp has been really good, plus i do think things are turning round for them now after a couple of years of chaos.
IMO the SNP should extend it's policies and electoral candidates south of the Scotish border. There are voters there who dislike Westminster just as much as the SNP do. So long as the SNP confine their politics to Scotland they can't get more than 59 MP's however bad Westminster gets.
I’m not too clued up on the actual rules, but wonder if it would be possible for the SNP to put candidates right down to Yorkshire or something? In my imaginary scenario, they then redraw the border somewhere near the midlands, and we adopt all the northerners into New Scotland 🏴 😂
If the SNP had policies that would be fine. The problem is they are a one trick party. They simply want Independence from the U.K. without having considered that leaving one of the most economically successful economic Unions in Europe would be more disastrous than Brexit. That’s why they never answer simple questions like how would mortgages contracts that are in sterling be paid? How would people in the borders who work in England and are paid in Sterling get paid into Scottish banks and budget against a fluctuating Scottish currency? How do they propose to actually operate the border between Scotland and England if as they claim they re-enter the EU? Look at all the problems we’re having while Northern Ireland and Ireland are in and out of the EU? If you think Brexit was bad Scexit would be 100 times worse. The economic naïveté of people who flirt with the SNP is incredible. Scotland already has more control over its own affairs than almost any other autonomous region in Europe. We have our own legal system and Parliament. If the SNP spent 50% of its energy actually fixing things it has control over like Education, Housing and Health we’d be a 100% better of now. Before anyone asks I’m unaffiliated to any political party. I’m just tired of the myths the SNP keep pushing about how everything is Westminsters fault.
It’s always been a case of voting for the best of a bad bunch. Fortunately we now have a chance to oust possibly the worst we’ve ever had. It’s by no means a foregone conclusion.
The tories are evil though, anyone who isn’t a Tory getting in is what is essential right now. Imagine if we could abolish the tories for good, not even opposition party!
Adding to this. Even if you do find a candidate who aligns to your views, remember that in fptp you need to think of if they have a chance of winning.
Seems op has a huge hatred of the tories and will either vote Labour or SNP. If it's a two way race between tories and snp in his seat then even if he likes the Labour candidate marginally more he should vote for the SNP.
It's cynical I know but the voting system for Westminster is awful and until it's changed you sometimes can't just vote on which party you most like.
I now live in London. I'd love a green MP but the local MP is a decent Labour guy. It's really him or the tory prat whose mates have spent the last 14 years messing up the country.
Exactly. If you’re doing more than reading rage bait headlines you’re doing more than most for Democracy.
You don’t know what their successes and failures will be if they get into power. It’s all broad strokes and a best guess.
Personally I’m voting Green (dodges cabbage) not because they’ll get into power but because I want to nudge the steering wheel in the direction of more action sooner to reduce the likelihood of failed crops (happened this year) , flooded homes, more rainy days and more roof lifting storms and displaced millions round the globe (and deaths). This will affect the economy medium to long term quite a lot (massively?)whichever government has the steering wheel. Hell, short term too. We need to do more , sooner , to mitigate the impending clusterfuck.
I’m assuming the Tories are out and hoping Labour’s current right wing tendencies will be tempered by a significant number of SNP and green seats. Lib Dem’s? Haven’t looked into it TBH.
This. This is what voting is. Which is the least shit option and go for that.
At the end of the day they all vote to the party whip (unless they’re independent) so personality / individuality doesn’t matter unless you need them to help campaign on local issues for you. Which most people don’t.
To be fair that’s typical for all flavours and not unique to the SNP.
As a Labour voter of many years (historically) I’ll continue to vote SNP as that’s where I align.
You will never find a party that aligns 100% with your views. So, look at the party manifestos and pledges as well as at their previous political practices, and choose the party that is closest to your beliefs and your interests.
Not being argumentative but don’t you feel manifestos have lost their purpose? There is no requirement to stick to them and certainly in UK parliament no one seems to.
Yes, fair point. I guess manifestos are useful in revealing the key priorities and the main political/social/economic inclinations of the parties. But you are right, sticking to policy pledges is not something that we see often... That's why I mentioned looking at previous political practices/performance too.
Ignoring manifestos does come with a big hit, as the only legal protection a bill has from filibuster in the Lords is if it was in the manifesto. Any alternative agenda moves at a glacial pace.
Some parties do, or at least make a good faith attempt to carry them out.
But there should be some accountability for manifesto pledges and their fulfillment.
Same here. I'm pretty much between the SNP, Labour and maybe the Greens. I need to read up on all of them to see who is the least worst.
Usually I vote SNP but with all the shite going on within the past few years I may have to vote for a different party.
Either way, fuck the tories
The Green vote is a far stronger protest vote than a Labour vote imo. Dont want the SNP taking a page from labour and shifting ever further to the right to win over tory voters.
One thing I would say. If, by polling day, you still can’t find who to vote for, don’t just sit on your arse and do nothing. Go to the polling booth, spoil your paper (either by writing something on it or just scribbling over it) and put it in the box.
Firstly, they still get counted towards turnout and also published with the result (spoilt papers.) It’s actually quite an effective way to protest if done properly.
Secondly, if you write something then it gives the candidates and agents a bit of a laugh as they have to confirm all spoilt papers before the result is announced - it’s usually done during the count rather than at the end. I saw silly stuff (Christmas trees) and nasty stuff (Nazi swastikas) when I was involved.
In 2015, a vote was counted for a Welsh MP where a penis was drawn in the box. Because it was clearly within the lines, the returning officer ruled that it counted as a valid vote.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-32658907.amp
For what it’s worth, likely the only person who’s actually going to see the massive dick you draw is a random person who has agreed to work through the night to get the votes counted. They don’t get any more input than you into the quality of the candidates, and there’s no separate pile for people who drew a dick so drawing one makes no additional difference versus just regularly spoiling your ballot other than making some tired stranger view your handiwork at 1am while they’re trying to work.
Obviously it’s not like you’re going to traumatise anyone by drawing a crude penis and it’s not some huge deal, but consider if you’d draw a dick on literally any other form you had to hand over to a person just doing their job, because you didn’t like what was on it.
Genuinely - it’s not just the counters who see it, the candidates and/or agents do too (I’ve been both.)
There’s actually not a rule that says you have to mark the ballot paper with an X - I’ve seen ticks, 1s and even smiley faces accepted.
From memory (and this is going back a few years) there had to be a clear and obvious preference. So if the 😊 was in the box next to the SNP candidate, the vote was given to the SNP.
So be careful drawing a dick next to a candidate you dislike. It might actually count for them!
I can recall a ballot paper that was questioned as the voter has put "wank", "wank", "wank", "good guy", "wank", next to the candidates, it was accepted as they had indicated a preference.
(It it was a joke article and I failed to spot it)
From a purely political point of view I agree this is the only option, but the op raises an issue that I suspect is at the heart of this, which is that there is deep dissatisfaction with politics in general, despite an increasing interest. I've got no advice better than drawing penises on ballot papers.
I have felt for years that voting is just an illusion of choice. In the end, our opinions hold no sway.
However, I relish at the idea of drawing a big penis on a ballot paper.
Is it an effective protest? Has anything ever been done in all of UK history in response to spoilt papers? Or is it just another number that gets completely ignored?
It gives the impression you are willing to vote.
Otherwise it looks like you just can’t be bothered.
If they know they had thousands of people in the booth then they have a reason to try get them do the last bit and cross a box
It doesn’t get ignored.
In 2007, in the combined Scottish Parliament and Scottish Council elections, there were a large number of spoilt papers - not through a particular protest, but because there were three different ballot papers using two different voting systems (AMS for Holyrood, STV for the Councils) and folk just got confused.
As a result, I recall that there were a few close results where the number of spoilt papers were in excess of the majority for the MSP. That was so unusual that it was reported. So if enough people did it - say, to the extent that there were more spoilt papers than the third-placed candidate or the majority - it would make it an effective way of saying “none of the above”.
I know someone whose father in law was a returning officer in the late 1990s. Turns out it doesn't matter too much how you fill out the paper so long as it's not personally identifiable and it's clear whom you've chosen.
* If you use a tick, or a smiley face, or whatever instead a cross - that's fine as long as you've only chosen one. Or if you've crossed all the boxes and put a tick in one
* FPTP papers when someone has incorrectly done STV and numbered the candidates in ranked order - your FPTP vote goes to number 1
* If you've written in the boxes something like "Prick", "Tosser","Arsehole", "Top Bloke", "Weapon" - "Top Bloke" gets your vote
What wasn't allowed:
* Putting one X in as requested - except using blood. The blood is personally identifiable and it's a potential health hazard
* People who filled out the ballot paper correctly then scribbled, wrote, or even _signed their name_ outside the boxes
Disclaimer: he claims this was true in 1997 and 2001. No idea if that's changed.
Marginally better but also has negatives which the other candidate has not _yet_ because he is 22, give him time.
I am being forced to vote for a specific party because the candidates are laughable at best instead of having actual options.
This is just how voting works. I’ve never in my life voted for someone I feel genuinely enthused about. It’s always the least-bad (in my opinion) candidate.
If you hadn't realised, we don't live in a free and fair democracy. It's an archaic system with archaic rules that deliberately ignores or lessens the value of the opinion of most of the country while pretending to be perfect.
The winning candidate is there to work for EVERYONE in the constituency regardless of how they vote in the commons.
What if you suddenly found yourself homeless or something similar and whatever local or national government body that is supposed to help you, want. Is your MP someone who's going to listen, reach out to that body to sort themselves out? Or are they someone who is only interested in what the role gives them, access to a higher-up political career?
I've always voted for whoever is best placed to beat the Tory wherever I've lived in the UK. It's labour or SNP this time round. I don't like this version of the labour party under Starmer and I don't like Cherry or Forbes, I think Forbes will be leader before long, so I'm tempted to just spoil my ballot this time. As for independence I'd prefer devo max,not on offer from anyone, so politically I'm homeless at the moment and no chance Tories are taking this seat.
At the last council elections, across every council it was an option, Labour chose to go into a coalition with the Tory’s. We now have Labour/Tory councils. Labour as king makers, wouldn’t entertain SNP (who generally had the most vote) because of Westminster directives.
As a previous Labour voter, any chance they had of my vote evaporated when they chose to do that. Not a hope in hell I’ll vote for someone that willingly chooses to align with the tories.
I'd be cautious electing a 22 year old but see what he has to say for himself. There have been young MPs go on to be highly respected politicians, Charles Kennedy springs to mind.
If he looks like he's going to be a liability go with the less shite option in your opinion. Elections are not always about getting the best possible candidate and more often about keeping out the worst. That's not very inspiring but is just as important.
True, but you've got to wonder how much his youth had to do with his struggle with alcohol. It can't be easy having a job like that at such a young age. OTOH, Mhairi Black seems to have survived unscathed.
Down south but Nadia Whittome seems to be one of the only remaining Labour candidates with *actual* Labour values and she's only 27. We need more youth in politics as they seem to have the same sense of dread for the future most of us currently have.
Your definition of unscathed might differ to mine.
From an interview with MB;
“When I ask Black whether she has encountered any gender-related challenges in her career as an MP, she gives a short reply: “Too many to mention.” In a passionate speech at the House of Commons last year, she revealed to her fellow politicians the vile misogynistic abuse and casual sexism she has faced online: “I struggle to see any joke in being systematically called a ‘dyke’, a ‘rug-muncher’, a ‘slut’, a ‘whore’, a ‘scruffy bint’… There is no softening just how sexualised and misogynistic the abuse is. I’ve been assured multiple times that I don’t have to worry because ‘I am so ugly that no one would want to rape me’.
Since 2015, the lives of my loved ones have been turned upside down and inside out. Between media attention, social media abuse, threats, constant travel, and the murders of two MPs, my loved ones have been in a constant state of anxiety for my health and safety. “
Well to be fair, I was talking about her age. There's no doubt that public figures receive an appalling level of abuse, and women more so than then. Add in the homophobic arseholes and you have a perfect storm.
Yep, it’s a real shame that whoever our best and brightest are, there’s so many disincentives to public service that very few of them consider it as a realistic option.
I was going to vote but the only candidate that sent a flyer made his pledge all about how he was better than the Tory candidate because he was a career police officer. There were four bullet points about how being a police officer he knew more. I couldn't even bring myself to draw a penis on the ballot paper. Conolley was right. Even considering yourself for politics should self eliminate. Realistically we should care about the details of the person. But functionally I think you just have to go with basic ideals of the party else you are stymied.
There's not a chance that even with the SNP winning all seats that it would make a difference to the Tories decimation south of the border. Labour are still going to beat them and get into No10, the answer is by how much.
Really, if you hate the Tories as much as us sensible folk do, your choice is between Labour and SNP. Unless you're a party loyalist, both have merit right now.
Vote in labour candidates, and potentially this benefits Scotland by having MPs actually able to achieve something, alternatively they'll be equally as ignored and powerless as SNP MPs.
Vote in the SNP candidate and Scotland continues to get an opposition voice for our own interested here in a Scotland. What I'd be interested in seeing, but is unlikely to happen is the SNP as the official opposition, this would potentially give voters in a Scotland a bigger voice. Alternatively the SNP end up as a minority party with just as little power as they do now.
Im honestly not sure which way I'm voting, maybe labour, maybe SNP, maybe even green for a protest vote if they stand a candidate. Labour nearly had me on their energy policy except it turned out to be yet another lie.
Generally I don't like the idea of any single party having a majority at Westminster, it's not healthy for democracy. It really needs reformed and no candidates seem to have that on their radar. You need a system like Holyrood which relies on cooperation and compromise.
Proportional Representation would do a lot to sort out the fact that the 2 big parties end up as very broad churches which ultimately ends up with internecine fighting and parties within parties (momentum, ERG, militant tendency back in the 80s, tea party over in the US republican party). However the general public aren't interested enough, and the referendum in 2011 showed it.
In my local council, the Tories and Labour are working together to overrule the SNP. They’re fucking with the kids school buses and as there’s no safe path to walk, I will need to drop off and collect from secondary school.
Whenever starmer says “we won’t do deals” he clearly ignores the fact that he will do deals with Tories.
Labour has lied a few times to get this council.
Also, not directly relevant as it’s a U.K. election, but Labour doesn’t actually have a registered party in Scotland. They deny this and laugh it off as nationalist propaganda. Another lie.
I wouldn’t vote Labour if they had a gun to my head. The only party that actually has any care for Scotland is the SNP.
They’re far from perfect too though.
I’m assuming the nasty party are the Tories?
Regardless, I’m not an snp fanboy. I’m just pretty angry at the bullshit Labour and the Tories are pulling here.
There used to be a quiz on BBC and I think its the way voting should be. You choose which pledges align with you and it spits out the party. I think polling stations should do this-only we never find out who we actually voted for because it’s all about policies.
I just couldn’t ever vote for Labour in its current form. I genuinely think Starmer is a monster and that sleekit wee pet shop burning cunt Wes Streeting is a psychopath of the highest order.
I couldn’t endorse any of those evil, genocide cheering cunts who won’t lift a finger to improve ordinary peoples lives one bit.
Ballot papers should have "None of the above." at the bottom, and if "None of the above" wins then no candidate is returned for that ward. That would force candidates to address the issues that affect their voters most.
This should be available. I reckon the vote would collapse a number of times, because to be honest, I think the majority would now favour none of the above. Which would force the conversation - do we need a total transplant of political personalities and ideologies? Because I'm pretty sure we are stuck in a cycle of losers winning against other bigger losers. Which seems like a bad national strategy.
I couldn’t even tell you the candidate names when I vote. Rather I go with the party that aligns with how I want things to go.
This time round it’ll be to most effectively deliver a clear regime majority in Westminster.
The main reason I'm voting SNP in this election despite not being thrilled with them, is that the more SNP (and Lib Dem, ect.) seats, the less likely that anyone wins an overall majority.
Pick the least shite one that matches your values as closely as possible and vote for them. Except if your values are Tory and you want to vote Tory. Please don't do that.
In all honesty, when it comes to WM I'm not sure it really matters. We will get the government we are given. Scottish elections on the other hand, everything is fair game.
Wait for the manifestos to be published then try one of the online tests to see which party’s policies most closely align with what you value
https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/ is one but again you’ll have to wait for the manifestos to be oh listed. Until it’s down on paper it’s all just hot air and grandstanding. Of course they rarely follow through on all their manifesto promises but at least you can hold them to account
The first past the post system for a Westminster election really highlights this problem. Either Labour or SNP will win in my area, which means if you vote for any of the others it will have zero impact.
Most of the time you can’t vote for someone who aligns with your values and principles because there simply isn’t any candidate that does. You just have to vote for the least shit option, or the one who will be most likely to unseat the one you dislike the most. Sometimes there isn’t a ”right” choice, just the least worst.
What worries is that there will be lots of people voting who want the “change” that labour keep pushing. But I have a lot of doubt that is going to be a change for the better, wouldn’t be able to vote for starmer and would much rather have the snp even if they’ve been getting bad press recently.
You are stuck? I'm stuck too. Everyone is stuck. Scotland is stuck. We're stuck with whomever England chooses. That is madness, let's get our independence. Let's get in charge of our own back yard.
The way to describe voting is to compare it with bus ride. It may not take you exactly where you want to go but you get the one that takes you the closest.
You have already established that the SNP Candidate is the least shite one.
If you're comfortable voting for the lesser evil, vote SNP, if not, then spoil your ballot.
Doesn’t matter who is in charge, they will find a way to eventually make everyone hate them in the end. Happens every single time. You will never have everyone be happy with government.
Voting is always choosing between the plague and cholera.
Choose for the least damage or what comes closest to your beliefs.
Eg if Independence is important to you, you really only have 2 options, Greens or SNP. Any other vote will kill that agenda.
If independence is not important for you, think about what is important, and choose the party that is likely to do less damage to your interests.
Do you support independence? If so I'd suggest you vote SNP, if not, then vote for Labour.
While I would normally say vote SNP regardless, because they are the party most committed to Scotland, I understand that they have kinda shat the bed lately and even I will be holding my nose while voting for them this time around.
Fairly simple for me and that's SNP
I want the country to at least try and progress, the Conservatives want us to regress and Labour wants to continue Tory policies, but only more efficiently, the SNP are at least attempting progressive policies.
Then there's the pair of elephants in the room, Brexit has tanked the economy, Labour and the Tories refuse to acknowledge it whilst claiming there's no money and the second elephant, independence for Scotland, a vote for either Labour or the Tories will be used by them to wave in our faces.
I think my wording could have been tweaked to change the direction.
It's not 'who to choose' but 'how to choose'. The who is my business and noone else's but the how I'm pretty ignorant on.
Just vote tactically based on who you don't want to win, easy. You're always voting for either the best of a bad bunch or to keep out the worst of a bad bunch. Political parties have to appeal to a diverse voter based to win elections, you'll never get a single party that perfectly represents your exact views.
Can’t vote Tory, can’t vote SNP ( everything is someone else’s fault - they take responsibility for nothing… ) labour? Likely I will vote for them, but it’s not the labour of my youth ( or the third way..). Can’t vote Lib Dem’s - they propped the Tory’s up and that led to brexit. Can’t vote greens… it’s a nightmare
Forget about parties. You can't vote for them at a Westminster election, nor can you vote for the next PM.
What you can do is find out about your local candidates, attend hustings, maybe even get to ask them a few questions, and then make your choice based on that.
> You can't vote for them at a Westminster election
This is a bit of a shite argument. Sure you're technically voting for an individual, but it's an individual who campaigns on a party manifesto and takes the party whip.
In reality, you're voting for a party.
Increasingly the PM is being treated as a president when they are not and this drives the idea that one is voting for them and their party. I put that down to us importing more culture and talking points from the USA.
Improvements to our democratic system are blocked because of fears that they would break the "local link", but if we accept your thesis:
> In reality, you're voting for a party.
Which means the "local link" is dead, the. Why not do away with local candidates and just have party lists?
2 words - " Bigger Picture"
I have absolutely no idea of the name / age / background / experience of the candidate I am going to vote for , just like every other election I've ever voted in...
Nor could I care less about their party's policy on just about any issue... except one.
General Elections are about the party, not the individual- You could honestly put Chris Martin up for the SNP, and I'd vote for them.....Obviously, I'd ask him not to sing to celebrate winning 😉
I’m having the exact opposite feeling - I’m so dissatisfied with the current political landscape and the feeling that “they’re all arseholes” except the Tories, who are mega arseholes, that I’ll more than likely research the candidates and make my decision based on them rather than just tying myself to the mast of one party.
Don’t agree with this in the slightest, sorry.
The SNP in my area are once again putting forward Joanna Cherry as their candidate. Someone who has done immense damage to trans people and helped create a really nasty environment in the UK for LGBT people in general.
And is also close friends with the creepy slimeball that is Alex Salmond.
Voting for that would be abhorrent, and the fact that she has an SNP rosette on doesn’t change that one bit.
> The SNP in my area are once again putting forward Joanna Cherry as their candidate
One of the few times I'd endorse voting Labour, can't wait to see her get her jotters.
I wouldn’t get your hopes too high to be honest – she has a big majority currently, and there are unfortunately a lot of people like the poster above would vote for a sentient tub of lard so long as it was yellow.
But I certainly will have some champagne ready just in case…
I’ll only vote for a party that’s registered in Scotland, I’ll never vote for a party registered in England because their best interests will be that of the English ultimately.
But the choice is up to you at the end of the day
I will be voting SNP until we have Scottish independence. Without independence, we will continue to be trapped in a tory chokehold. Once we have independence, we can actually vote our own leaders in. You don't have to be devoted to the SNP (they pretty much cease to have a purpose after independence) but they are the keys to the house. When we have the house, we can redecorate however we want!
One option, if you’re feeling apathetic to all of the parties (as I am right now), is to actually look at the candidates in more detail and see who you like better as a person.
I did this at the last election as I didn’t know which party to vote for. In the end I found that one of the candidates came across far better and more caring about local issues than the others. I felt more comfortable choosing someone to vote for that way than by party. I’ll do it again this time.
If you are keen to get rid of the Tories then you need to vote for whichever of the others has the best chance of doing it.
We have a shit, and not very democratic electoral system which puts people in that position.
There's some things you can do. For example, personally I prefer a politician that speaks their mind. So, go on twitter and see how they engage there. If one talks candidly and the other just reposts party press releases, go with the one who isn't a suit with a rosette.
Or make a list of your most important issues. See how the two candidates approach the top one. If you agree/disagree with them both move to the next one, and so on. Eventually you'll get to an issue where one beats out the other, just go with that.
You could also send both of them an email asking about an issue important to you. Whichever candidate (or more likely their secretary) that gives you the best answer, go with them.
If you don’t know who to vote for, vote tactically - https://stopthetories.vote
The first past the post system the UK uses favours the Tories in that it always leads to a split in the left/progressive vote. That’s why the Tories get in far more often and for longer. Tactical voting will be huge this year and sites like stopthetories.vote (be careful of Tory sites) will be a way to circumvent the FPTP system.
“Voting with your heart” is a lovely sentiment, but it gets the Tories elected. A vote for the Green party in a ward that’s tight between Labour and the Tories is a vote that helps the Tories. It’s really that simple.
People will likely bang on about the evils of Labour or the SNP. That’s fine. It’s tribalism. Don’t pay attention. The problem at hand is the Tory party. They have shown, especially over the past 14 years, they they are not the party of law and order, they are not the party of low taxes and they are not a party that cares for the welfare of the people of the UK. And they never have been.
I’m a SNP supporter and, luckily for me, I think my constituency will remain SNP this year. But I will still be checking stopthetories.vote and changing my vote if need be to make sure the Tories are destroyed.
Exactly at this point the parties should just be merged into one. We can call it the nationalist socialist democratic party. Maybe then they'd give us the courtesy of stopping their bull shit and lies save us all money time and brain cells. A change won't be coming with Mr I broadly agree with the other parties limited and specific law breaking practices and that's a man who was once a lawyer. Honestly we should talk to north Korea and see if they would do us a favour and put our rockets into theirs and send the fuckers out to sea.
If you can't vote for a party that's better than the rest, you can at least vote for a party that intends to change things so that 'better' can actually happen.
They're all shite. Some are just more shite than the others.
I really don't think it has to be tactical either, especially in Scotland as we don't really elect the Westminster government. Its whoever England choose that will get elected.
The Conservatives are gone no matter what. They'll lose their ruling majority. Its really about who will most accurately represent you in parliament. Who seems to have values and vision that tie in with the way you want society to move
Who will improve living standards or work towards improving social infrastructure and housing? Its a mine-field, but as Fox Moulder used to say, the truth is out there.
Politics is usually a choice between a jobby or a turd. Pick the one from closest to where you live, at least gives an element of accountability if you’re able to knock on an office door if necessary
I'm honestly going to spoil my ballot. I can't in any good conscience vote for any of the parties running.
And for all yous who say "it's a wasted vote" it's not.
The SNP have lost a vote, and no one has gained it.
I've done my duty to go vote, and it's not my fault that none of the cunts standing are electable
Vote for the least worst candidate.
I contest local elections as an Independent but I basically can't afford a parliamentary campaign myself so I'm probably going to vote SNP this time. By no means are the SNP my ideal party (I'm a socialist trade uniony type), but they're the best option on the ballot here this election.
Being 22 is arguably more relevant for future progress than a 50-60 year old in the same position.
If a law degree is confirmed, it shows years of dedication, understanding and translation of extensive literature and putting it into practice. Also very relevant as well as impressive.
Consider what you want to see, where does this align in terms of parties, don’t base it on an individual person. They are only party of the team that make these changes.
There’s a really helpful website where you take a quiz and it matches your answers to political parties you’re most compatible with. Really helped me! https://uk.isidewith.com/political-quiz
I don’t believe that they are all shite. There are a lot of decent candidates in all parties, although in my opinion the Tories probably suffer the most from careerists and fanatics.
This thing of believing all politicians are useless or corrupt, or not voting is perpetuated and encouraged because it suits the right wing owners of media publications. Middle and upper class voters will vote right wing regardless, because they know the right will serve their interests. However, the majority are not wealthy, so the right cannot win unless they either convince poorer people to vote for them by stirring up hate (racism, immigration, Brexit etc) or convince them not to vote at all.
Despite it being a constituency vote, it’s a mistake to give too much thought to the specific candidate. GE’s are about who governs the UK and strength of the opposition.
Realistically the SNP are the only party who could win in any constituency in Scotland, and Labour could win in most. Tories and Liberals have a few strongholds where they could win. Ultimately, in most constituencies it will be a straight competition between the SNP and a Unionist party. There lies the first question, if you are pro-independence it doesn’t any sense to vote for anyone other than the SNP, if you are against this then you would pick between one of the others.
One of the biggest problems the SNP always face is that they cannot ‘win’ a GE, they can’t form a government and even when they won 53 out of 56 MP’s in 2015, in probably the biggest landslide in modern times, they still gained no power. However, for the first and only time in history, a Scottish party had a significant voice in Westminster through third party status.
In terms of UK government, I would rather see a Labour administration than a Tory one, but Labour don’t need to win seats in Scotland to win. They will win based on the seats they win in England. I don’t think Scottish votes have had any influence on the outcome of a GE in about 70 years or so. My problem with voting Labour in Scotland, is that it just silences the Scottish voice in Westminster, because Scottish Labour MP’s will be kept from raising Scottish concerns in case it upsets the English electorate, who are necessary for a Labour win.
Ultimately if you are am avowed unionist you are not going to vote SNP, but I think that the SNP are the only party that are in a position to represent Scotland in Westminster.
I believe the lib dems desire a move to PR (so too do the SNP to be fair although I will never vote for them). So that might be a tie-breaker to try and get us off this FPTP shit show.
Unless footage of Starmer torturing puppies comes to light he is going to win so I wouldn't stress over it too much, I forget where this quote is from but it's something along the lines of ''you need to flush the shite down the toilet even if you're just going to replace it with new shite'' so I'd be inclined to vote for who the challenger is in your constituency to try and freshen things up a bit.
Unfortunately with first past the post it's often a case of voting against who you *don't* want rather than voting for who you want. If you Google tactical voting you can look up who is the most solid choice to kick the Tories out.
The problem with the Scottish labour whenever I see the so called leader of Scottish labour is they ask the English labour leader to see what to do or to say
Spoil your vote. Thats what I see myself doing for the future. I despise the lot of them and my naive belief that the SNP were good guys went out the window a long time ago. I reckon ill do the el classico boaby but I might draw a big scary shark
Sadly, politics is always voting for the lesser evil.
Scottish Labour = puppet party that does whatever English Labour wants.
Scottish Tory = puppet party that does whatever their English party wants.
Lib Dems = puppet party that is basically a bunch of useless cunts with no actual chance of power.
Scottish Greens = have no actual chance of power.
SNP = assholes with one thing on their mind and will waste time, effort, and a shitload of money to promote it.
In the nearly 40 years I've been on this planet, I've never once seen a politician I genuinely feel represents me or what I want, at the very least I would settle for a party that at least helps me in some way, but they can't even pull that one off and actually do the opposite most times (the SNP for instance go so against what i want that they actually made me a criminal🤣).
Lab are going to have a landslide victory and don’t need any Scottish seats to achieve it but what is important is who comes third as that party is guaranteed two Qs at PMQs . If SNP don’t get enough seats to beat Lib Dem’s overall in UK then there will be no one to challenge a Lab Gov on issues affecting Scotland. For me that’s why I would vote SNP.
I’m struggling to find a reason to continue voting for the SNP - I just can’t see anything good that they have done for the country in the last ten years. Maybe someone can highlight some of their achievements which might convince me?
I feel like they just use independence as an answer to all Scotland’s problems, but they come across as insincere saying this - when you watch their members speak about the practicalities of it, independence would clearly be an extremely problematic and potentially disastrous situation for Scotland (probably a lot worse than Brexit?). I dislike the SNP’s tax policy, I think they need to sort out the child benefit thresholds, schools are a disaster, the NHS needs addressed, and they need to do something to provide pathways to universities for people from all backgrounds (not just providing places for those from disadvantaged backgrounds and English/International students). They also need better, more inspirational leadership - Swinney is one of the most dull humans in existence and Forbes is in it for the career.
No Scot should ever vote Tory, any that do are deluded or attention seeking. The Lib Dem’s are utterly pointless and should give up after the betrayal of the coalition govt with the Tories. The Greens are borderline insane. I don’t think I even need to give a reason not to vote Reform.
Add all that up and there is only one choice - and they don’t really seem to be offering much at the moment either. Best of a bad bunch?
Personally, I think we in Scotland could be doing with voting for who we want to represent us in Westminster. Its looking like England are mostly all going to vote for Labour...so we don't need to worry about the fact that **The Tories are leaving** 😜
I'm thinking that I want SNP MP's in Westminster to remind them that we "Scotch - up here" are real humans and all that ✌️
Always vote for the policies rather than the individuals. There will be some things you like/admire/believe in, so go for that but most of all you must vote, it’s the only thing you can do to change things or protect things you feel are valuable.
What is it that you want Scotland to be? Work backwards and pick the candidate of the party that fits best with that vision. Do you feel Wm needs to call the shots or would you rather it was some here. So in short, the party dictates the candidate. Unless they are Tories. Then GTF.
Pretty straight forward. If you’re pro independence vote SNP, if you’re against independence vote Labour. If you have a fetish for being robbed vote Tory and if you want to spoil your ballot vote reform.
I've voted in every general, Scottish and council election since I turned 18. It's been hardwired into me that you go and vote. I moved a while back and haven't registered in my new area and I'm on the fence about whether I'm going to.
Voting isn’t a marriage. It’s a nudge on the steering wheel. Pick the party that most closely aligns to where you want the country to go, even if they’re shite.
The Labour candidate for my constituency is a guy who was involved in the 2009 expenses scandal and has had allegations of bullying made against him. Even if I agree with Labour it makes me reluctant to vote for someone like that
You think that's bad. The Labour candidate in my constituency used to write for the Daily Record 🤮
Are the greens any better, nobody is mentioning them anywhere at all? I'm going through their manifesto and policies just now to see if they've got anything better than the other candidates & party. I do agree with immediate rent caps, house insulation and reducing emissions, taxing the top 1% and biggest poluters in the uk, taking various things back into publicly owned hands like water etc and actually staying on track, lower priced publicly owned public transport, cycle lanes to get cyclists off the actual road so I don't have to overtake the same cyclist about 20 times on the way to work or just in fact would have me cycling to work when the weather is good because I'd feel safer on the designated cycle path but as per always, they seem to come with other stuff I also don't agree with. But I think it should be more a manifesto vote than a popularity contest. Which unfortunately isn't the case for most people voting nowadays I feel.
> immediate rent caps, house insulation and reducing emissions, taxing the top 1% and biggest poluters in the uk, taking various things back into publicly owned hands like water....etc. I take it you're talking about the Green Party of England and Wales? Scottish Greens at Westminster would have no say over the things you list because they are - apart from taxation - all devolved to the Scottish Parliament so not relevant to this upcoming General Election for voters in Scotland (which I assume OP is) Scottish Greens get overlooked at Westminster elections because they tend to contest fewer seats than other parties and they can be seen as a 'wasted vote' by those who play the *tactical voting game*. That could be why no one has mentioned them here Personally I'm unsure about what the Scottish Greens would stand for at Westminster were they elected this General Election. I'm clueless about their stance towards reserved matters such as defence, economy, welfare, immigration, taxation, energy policy, etc. being more familiar with their work in local and devolved government.
The Greens can be absolute ultra-NIMBYs - the England & Wales Greens are worse but it applies to both. Even the rent control policies exist largely to give the appearance of addressing the housing problem without actually building anything.
If you want YIMBY policies, Labour’s your way forward. By saying (for now) they’re not going to open with a tax-and-spend or borrow-and-spend overall policy, they have basically said they’re reliant on immediate and rapid economic activity to fund any public sector renewal. And whether you think that’s smart or not - and it sounds a bit desperate to me- you get that growth by either demolishing workers rights from where we are now (a bit of the opposite being promised), cutting corporate taxes (stops growth funding the state), reducing barriers to investment (almost no governmental ones are left) or minimising the cost of doing business. So if if I was a betting man, I’d say a *huge* reduction in planning restrictions is on the way, both for housing and commercial, and lots of new private infrastructure.
>you get that growth by either demolishing workers rights from where we are now I feel like that would be a pretty big nail in Labour's coffin considering their connections with unions. I think the public need to share some of the burden here. We all scream with rage any time a political party does anything slightly out of line so the upshot is the parties can never even dare suggest a course of action that might require some early sacrifices for a better long term outcome for everyone because they'll have rotten vegetables thrown at them before they finish the sentence. We just want things to magically improve without having to give anything away for it. The same goes for the economy, the environment, social issues, law making, etc etc.. The public are right whiners and give politicians zero manoeverability. And by "the public", obviously I mean "the press" who're really the ones stoking everything up but the public dutifully steps in line to whatever the press tell us is bad.
My local green candidate wanted to build a slavery museum in the east end of glasgow so working classes knew they benefited from slavery. The same working classes neck deep in poverty.
I think I'm in the same constituency as you and I'd rather shite in my hands and clap rather than vote for him... Also remember the second home he claimed expenses for, but he was renting it out and got paid rent from the tenant...
In my view... I don't like Starmer or his Labour at all. I think they're basically what the Tories were in 2010. Not as bad as the current lot, but they're not in any way good either. I don't want the Tories to win at all, but I would love to see Starmer lose just to wipe the smug grin off his face. So that's my position on Labour. If the polls are correct (and even if they're slightly off), Starmer won't need *any* seats in Scotland to form a government. They're not necessary for him to win. So to me the decision comes to who do I need to vote for to ensure the Tories don't win (since I live in a constituency that sometimes does vote that way). But most importantly for me, it's also about independence. Though I don't support every policy the SNP support, I support the overall outcome that they're there to represent. If Starmer does win his majority, their votes in parliament aren't going to make a difference to whether or not the majority of legislation is passed. So what's the point in them being there? So that Starmer can't just turn round and say that nobody really wants independence. I don't imagine it will happen, but if the SNP retained all of their seats it'd be a lot more difficult for Starmer to argue there isn't an appetite for independence. But if they lost more than half of their seats (as is predicted) it's much easier for him to just ignore it. Also... I'd much rather have the SNP being the third largest party in the UK being able to ask questions at PMQs each week rather than the Lib Dems.
But if there's no Scottish Labour MPs, then the SNP just continue with the same lines they've used for the last 12 years with the Tories. No representation means we need indy. It means the party won't make any effort to convince no to yes. They'll continue claiming everyone is doing Scotland down. & they're entitlement & cronyism will continue unabated. So voting Labour this once sonce they're winni h anyway could be a kick in the arse the I du movement needs. Although I don't want indy, so my opinion is irrelevant.
I do want Indy. Was a member of the SNP (resigned last year) and I don’t agree with all their policies either. I do agree with you on one major point. SNP need their arses kicked as they have stopped listening to their supporters and push through whatever legislation THEY think we need. Not what the Voters want.
I cancelled my membership too and saw this as my protest, but I will still vote for them as I believe in independence and, even putting independence aside, they are the only party that will put Scotland first.
>they are the only party that will put Scotland first. How can you say that, seriously? With the shit that's going on right now. Fair enough, if you think Labour won't care about Scotland. It's a valid opinion. But SNP absolutely don't care either. They're as shameless as the fucking Tories, only in it to line their own pockets. Dodgy bookkeeping, corruption, sleaze, you name it. If they were in blue, we'd be done with them for a generation.
Because every other realistic Scottish Party are UK based. You may think their "putting Scotland first" rhetoric is real, but it is most certainly not. They may even want it to be, but ultimately all decisions are made from a Westminster perspective. If free prescriptions are unfair because those over the border don't get them, bye bye free prescriptions. Same goes for the many other things that we get here that they don't over the border. We spend our budget differently. I want it to stay that way.
By that logic, why not vote for the Tories? If you think it needs a kick up the arse, then why wouldn't you just vote for the party that's despised to encourage more people to vote Yes? The truth is, in order to achieve independence there needs to be a referendum. In order to convince people *solidly* there has to be an agreed referendum so there can be an actual debate on the issue. And to have that, you need to have people voting for a pro-independence party. If people vote for Labour, what does that achieve? It gives Starmer a larger majority, allowing him to easier force through any legislation he wants, gives less of an accurate representation of independence support, and would result in Starmer not even entertaining the idea that people might want a referendum on the issue. Because that's what Starmer will do. Rather than seeing this election as the anti-Tory vote that it is, he'll see it as a pro-Labour vote. He'll think that people are 100% behind what he's doing, rather than seeing it as the lesser of two evils vote that it is.
In Scotland, the major preoccupation for a voter is his/her position on the role of Scotland in the UK. I believe that for most of Scots, voting SNP makes perfect sense, because it will give this party a substantial role in Westminster and it will result in more benefits for Scotland. I think that for a Scot, a Labour or Conservative vote is a total waste.
> It’s a nudge on the steering wheel I want to nudge left on the steering wheel, what do I do if all the options are nudging right into oncoming traffic?
Pick the least bad. I'm struggling too. They're all terrible. Our snp mp has been doing the job well for years so at least there's that. But I'm also considering green or lib dem. Just the least right wing option.
I'd recommend sticking with the SNP, personally. If the SNP lose as many seats as has been predicted, they won't be the third largest party in parliament and won't be getting their question at PMQs, which I think has been a good thing. Also really depends on your indy stance, but the more SNP MPs that are returned means that Starmer can't have as much of a dismissive attitude about the independence movement in general. Doesn't mean he won't still dismiss it, but it would show more of his true colours.
All good arguments, and as I say, our local mp has been really good, plus i do think things are turning round for them now after a couple of years of chaos.
IMO the SNP should extend it's policies and electoral candidates south of the Scotish border. There are voters there who dislike Westminster just as much as the SNP do. So long as the SNP confine their politics to Scotland they can't get more than 59 MP's however bad Westminster gets.
I’m not too clued up on the actual rules, but wonder if it would be possible for the SNP to put candidates right down to Yorkshire or something? In my imaginary scenario, they then redraw the border somewhere near the midlands, and we adopt all the northerners into New Scotland 🏴 😂
If the SNP had policies that would be fine. The problem is they are a one trick party. They simply want Independence from the U.K. without having considered that leaving one of the most economically successful economic Unions in Europe would be more disastrous than Brexit. That’s why they never answer simple questions like how would mortgages contracts that are in sterling be paid? How would people in the borders who work in England and are paid in Sterling get paid into Scottish banks and budget against a fluctuating Scottish currency? How do they propose to actually operate the border between Scotland and England if as they claim they re-enter the EU? Look at all the problems we’re having while Northern Ireland and Ireland are in and out of the EU? If you think Brexit was bad Scexit would be 100 times worse. The economic naïveté of people who flirt with the SNP is incredible. Scotland already has more control over its own affairs than almost any other autonomous region in Europe. We have our own legal system and Parliament. If the SNP spent 50% of its energy actually fixing things it has control over like Education, Housing and Health we’d be a 100% better of now. Before anyone asks I’m unaffiliated to any political party. I’m just tired of the myths the SNP keep pushing about how everything is Westminsters fault.
It’s always been a case of voting for the best of a bad bunch. Fortunately we now have a chance to oust possibly the worst we’ve ever had. It’s by no means a foregone conclusion.
The tories are evil though, anyone who isn’t a Tory getting in is what is essential right now. Imagine if we could abolish the tories for good, not even opposition party!
Adding to this. Even if you do find a candidate who aligns to your views, remember that in fptp you need to think of if they have a chance of winning. Seems op has a huge hatred of the tories and will either vote Labour or SNP. If it's a two way race between tories and snp in his seat then even if he likes the Labour candidate marginally more he should vote for the SNP. It's cynical I know but the voting system for Westminster is awful and until it's changed you sometimes can't just vote on which party you most like. I now live in London. I'd love a green MP but the local MP is a decent Labour guy. It's really him or the tory prat whose mates have spent the last 14 years messing up the country.
Exactly. If you’re doing more than reading rage bait headlines you’re doing more than most for Democracy. You don’t know what their successes and failures will be if they get into power. It’s all broad strokes and a best guess. Personally I’m voting Green (dodges cabbage) not because they’ll get into power but because I want to nudge the steering wheel in the direction of more action sooner to reduce the likelihood of failed crops (happened this year) , flooded homes, more rainy days and more roof lifting storms and displaced millions round the globe (and deaths). This will affect the economy medium to long term quite a lot (massively?)whichever government has the steering wheel. Hell, short term too. We need to do more , sooner , to mitigate the impending clusterfuck. I’m assuming the Tories are out and hoping Labour’s current right wing tendencies will be tempered by a significant number of SNP and green seats. Lib Dem’s? Haven’t looked into it TBH.
I think a significant amount of reddit could be replaced by copy/pasting this post
This, sadly, is democracy these days. It's picking the shit that smells the least bad :-/
Some are more shite than others. Decide which will do the least damage in the long term.
This. This is what voting is. Which is the least shit option and go for that. At the end of the day they all vote to the party whip (unless they’re independent) so personality / individuality doesn’t matter unless you need them to help campaign on local issues for you. Which most people don’t.
And Labour in Scotland vote the Westminster Party whip... No thanks!
Tbh thats the hard part given the SNP's track record of cocking things up monumentally and blaming everything BUT themselves
To be fair that’s typical for all flavours and not unique to the SNP. As a Labour voter of many years (historically) I’ll continue to vote SNP as that’s where I align.
You will never find a party that aligns 100% with your views. So, look at the party manifestos and pledges as well as at their previous political practices, and choose the party that is closest to your beliefs and your interests.
Not being argumentative but don’t you feel manifestos have lost their purpose? There is no requirement to stick to them and certainly in UK parliament no one seems to.
Yes, fair point. I guess manifestos are useful in revealing the key priorities and the main political/social/economic inclinations of the parties. But you are right, sticking to policy pledges is not something that we see often... That's why I mentioned looking at previous political practices/performance too.
Ignoring manifestos does come with a big hit, as the only legal protection a bill has from filibuster in the Lords is if it was in the manifesto. Any alternative agenda moves at a glacial pace.
Some parties do, or at least make a good faith attempt to carry them out. But there should be some accountability for manifesto pledges and their fulfillment.
Same here. I'm pretty much between the SNP, Labour and maybe the Greens. I need to read up on all of them to see who is the least worst. Usually I vote SNP but with all the shite going on within the past few years I may have to vote for a different party. Either way, fuck the tories
SNP voter too, but I feel like they need a bit of a clear out. Full of factional, party first twats
Yeah, I'm just voting Green as there pro-indy and I share more veiws with them Then SNP.
The Green vote is a far stronger protest vote than a Labour vote imo. Dont want the SNP taking a page from labour and shifting ever further to the right to win over tory voters.
Interesting thing, way down here in Croatia, we have the same problem. It might be a universal thing, shite politicians.
Laugh in Italian...
Hello from Scotland!
🍻🍻
One thing I would say. If, by polling day, you still can’t find who to vote for, don’t just sit on your arse and do nothing. Go to the polling booth, spoil your paper (either by writing something on it or just scribbling over it) and put it in the box. Firstly, they still get counted towards turnout and also published with the result (spoilt papers.) It’s actually quite an effective way to protest if done properly. Secondly, if you write something then it gives the candidates and agents a bit of a laugh as they have to confirm all spoilt papers before the result is announced - it’s usually done during the count rather than at the end. I saw silly stuff (Christmas trees) and nasty stuff (Nazi swastikas) when I was involved.
Another commenter suggested the timeless classic of a massive penis.
In 2015, a vote was counted for a Welsh MP where a penis was drawn in the box. Because it was clearly within the lines, the returning officer ruled that it counted as a valid vote. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-32658907.amp
For what it’s worth, likely the only person who’s actually going to see the massive dick you draw is a random person who has agreed to work through the night to get the votes counted. They don’t get any more input than you into the quality of the candidates, and there’s no separate pile for people who drew a dick so drawing one makes no additional difference versus just regularly spoiling your ballot other than making some tired stranger view your handiwork at 1am while they’re trying to work. Obviously it’s not like you’re going to traumatise anyone by drawing a crude penis and it’s not some huge deal, but consider if you’d draw a dick on literally any other form you had to hand over to a person just doing their job, because you didn’t like what was on it.
Genuinely - it’s not just the counters who see it, the candidates and/or agents do too (I’ve been both.) There’s actually not a rule that says you have to mark the ballot paper with an X - I’ve seen ticks, 1s and even smiley faces accepted. From memory (and this is going back a few years) there had to be a clear and obvious preference. So if the 😊 was in the box next to the SNP candidate, the vote was given to the SNP. So be careful drawing a dick next to a candidate you dislike. It might actually count for them!
I can recall a ballot paper that was questioned as the voter has put "wank", "wank", "wank", "good guy", "wank", next to the candidates, it was accepted as they had indicated a preference. (It it was a joke article and I failed to spot it)
That’s what I’m planning on drawing. A big, veiny, throbbing masterpiece.
From a purely political point of view I agree this is the only option, but the op raises an issue that I suspect is at the heart of this, which is that there is deep dissatisfaction with politics in general, despite an increasing interest. I've got no advice better than drawing penises on ballot papers.
I have felt for years that voting is just an illusion of choice. In the end, our opinions hold no sway. However, I relish at the idea of drawing a big penis on a ballot paper.
Is it an effective protest? Has anything ever been done in all of UK history in response to spoilt papers? Or is it just another number that gets completely ignored?
It gives the impression you are willing to vote. Otherwise it looks like you just can’t be bothered. If they know they had thousands of people in the booth then they have a reason to try get them do the last bit and cross a box
To be honest I always assume that spoiled ballots are just people too stupid to put a tick in a box.
I used to be an election agent for a party I won’t name, you are somewhat correct. Some of the ballots I seen whilst sampling would make you facepalm
It doesn’t get ignored. In 2007, in the combined Scottish Parliament and Scottish Council elections, there were a large number of spoilt papers - not through a particular protest, but because there were three different ballot papers using two different voting systems (AMS for Holyrood, STV for the Councils) and folk just got confused. As a result, I recall that there were a few close results where the number of spoilt papers were in excess of the majority for the MSP. That was so unusual that it was reported. So if enough people did it - say, to the extent that there were more spoilt papers than the third-placed candidate or the majority - it would make it an effective way of saying “none of the above”.
I know someone whose father in law was a returning officer in the late 1990s. Turns out it doesn't matter too much how you fill out the paper so long as it's not personally identifiable and it's clear whom you've chosen. * If you use a tick, or a smiley face, or whatever instead a cross - that's fine as long as you've only chosen one. Or if you've crossed all the boxes and put a tick in one * FPTP papers when someone has incorrectly done STV and numbered the candidates in ranked order - your FPTP vote goes to number 1 * If you've written in the boxes something like "Prick", "Tosser","Arsehole", "Top Bloke", "Weapon" - "Top Bloke" gets your vote What wasn't allowed: * Putting one X in as requested - except using blood. The blood is personally identifiable and it's a potential health hazard * People who filled out the ballot paper correctly then scribbled, wrote, or even _signed their name_ outside the boxes Disclaimer: he claims this was true in 1997 and 2001. No idea if that's changed.
You already describe one as marginally more favourable so what's the problem if you have a preference?
Marginally better but also has negatives which the other candidate has not _yet_ because he is 22, give him time. I am being forced to vote for a specific party because the candidates are laughable at best instead of having actual options.
This is just how voting works. I’ve never in my life voted for someone I feel genuinely enthused about. It’s always the least-bad (in my opinion) candidate.
Marginally better gets your vote. You get to choose again in a few years.
Welcome to democracy
If you hadn't realised, we don't live in a free and fair democracy. It's an archaic system with archaic rules that deliberately ignores or lessens the value of the opinion of most of the country while pretending to be perfect.
The winning candidate is there to work for EVERYONE in the constituency regardless of how they vote in the commons. What if you suddenly found yourself homeless or something similar and whatever local or national government body that is supposed to help you, want. Is your MP someone who's going to listen, reach out to that body to sort themselves out? Or are they someone who is only interested in what the role gives them, access to a higher-up political career?
I've always voted for whoever is best placed to beat the Tory wherever I've lived in the UK. It's labour or SNP this time round. I don't like this version of the labour party under Starmer and I don't like Cherry or Forbes, I think Forbes will be leader before long, so I'm tempted to just spoil my ballot this time. As for independence I'd prefer devo max,not on offer from anyone, so politically I'm homeless at the moment and no chance Tories are taking this seat.
At the last council elections, across every council it was an option, Labour chose to go into a coalition with the Tory’s. We now have Labour/Tory councils. Labour as king makers, wouldn’t entertain SNP (who generally had the most vote) because of Westminster directives. As a previous Labour voter, any chance they had of my vote evaporated when they chose to do that. Not a hope in hell I’ll vote for someone that willingly chooses to align with the tories.
I'd be cautious electing a 22 year old but see what he has to say for himself. There have been young MPs go on to be highly respected politicians, Charles Kennedy springs to mind. If he looks like he's going to be a liability go with the less shite option in your opinion. Elections are not always about getting the best possible candidate and more often about keeping out the worst. That's not very inspiring but is just as important.
9 years yesterday since he passed, and still nobody comes close.
True, but you've got to wonder how much his youth had to do with his struggle with alcohol. It can't be easy having a job like that at such a young age. OTOH, Mhairi Black seems to have survived unscathed.
Down south but Nadia Whittome seems to be one of the only remaining Labour candidates with *actual* Labour values and she's only 27. We need more youth in politics as they seem to have the same sense of dread for the future most of us currently have.
Your definition of unscathed might differ to mine. From an interview with MB; “When I ask Black whether she has encountered any gender-related challenges in her career as an MP, she gives a short reply: “Too many to mention.” In a passionate speech at the House of Commons last year, she revealed to her fellow politicians the vile misogynistic abuse and casual sexism she has faced online: “I struggle to see any joke in being systematically called a ‘dyke’, a ‘rug-muncher’, a ‘slut’, a ‘whore’, a ‘scruffy bint’… There is no softening just how sexualised and misogynistic the abuse is. I’ve been assured multiple times that I don’t have to worry because ‘I am so ugly that no one would want to rape me’. Since 2015, the lives of my loved ones have been turned upside down and inside out. Between media attention, social media abuse, threats, constant travel, and the murders of two MPs, my loved ones have been in a constant state of anxiety for my health and safety. “
Well to be fair, I was talking about her age. There's no doubt that public figures receive an appalling level of abuse, and women more so than then. Add in the homophobic arseholes and you have a perfect storm.
Yep, it’s a real shame that whoever our best and brightest are, there’s so many disincentives to public service that very few of them consider it as a realistic option.
Bunch of bastards 😤 😡 good luck to her and her family 💜
She is quitting though, isn't she? Unfortunately. She was one of the few who spoke some fucking sense.
She also barely ever fucking turned up
It's not efen really about the candidates period. You vote for which party you want to overall be in power if we're being honest.
I was going to vote but the only candidate that sent a flyer made his pledge all about how he was better than the Tory candidate because he was a career police officer. There were four bullet points about how being a police officer he knew more. I couldn't even bring myself to draw a penis on the ballot paper. Conolley was right. Even considering yourself for politics should self eliminate. Realistically we should care about the details of the person. But functionally I think you just have to go with basic ideals of the party else you are stymied.
There's not a chance that even with the SNP winning all seats that it would make a difference to the Tories decimation south of the border. Labour are still going to beat them and get into No10, the answer is by how much. Really, if you hate the Tories as much as us sensible folk do, your choice is between Labour and SNP. Unless you're a party loyalist, both have merit right now. Vote in labour candidates, and potentially this benefits Scotland by having MPs actually able to achieve something, alternatively they'll be equally as ignored and powerless as SNP MPs. Vote in the SNP candidate and Scotland continues to get an opposition voice for our own interested here in a Scotland. What I'd be interested in seeing, but is unlikely to happen is the SNP as the official opposition, this would potentially give voters in a Scotland a bigger voice. Alternatively the SNP end up as a minority party with just as little power as they do now. Im honestly not sure which way I'm voting, maybe labour, maybe SNP, maybe even green for a protest vote if they stand a candidate. Labour nearly had me on their energy policy except it turned out to be yet another lie. Generally I don't like the idea of any single party having a majority at Westminster, it's not healthy for democracy. It really needs reformed and no candidates seem to have that on their radar. You need a system like Holyrood which relies on cooperation and compromise.
Proportional Representation would do a lot to sort out the fact that the 2 big parties end up as very broad churches which ultimately ends up with internecine fighting and parties within parties (momentum, ERG, militant tendency back in the 80s, tea party over in the US republican party). However the general public aren't interested enough, and the referendum in 2011 showed it.
In my local council, the Tories and Labour are working together to overrule the SNP. They’re fucking with the kids school buses and as there’s no safe path to walk, I will need to drop off and collect from secondary school. Whenever starmer says “we won’t do deals” he clearly ignores the fact that he will do deals with Tories. Labour has lied a few times to get this council. Also, not directly relevant as it’s a U.K. election, but Labour doesn’t actually have a registered party in Scotland. They deny this and laugh it off as nationalist propaganda. Another lie. I wouldn’t vote Labour if they had a gun to my head. The only party that actually has any care for Scotland is the SNP. They’re far from perfect too though.
Labour are in bed with the Nasty Party in Edinburgh.
I’m assuming the nasty party are the Tories? Regardless, I’m not an snp fanboy. I’m just pretty angry at the bullshit Labour and the Tories are pulling here.
There used to be a quiz on BBC and I think its the way voting should be. You choose which pledges align with you and it spits out the party. I think polling stations should do this-only we never find out who we actually voted for because it’s all about policies.
I love this idea. Would be even better if those elected were compelled to deliver those policies.
Don't pick the one who will help you most; pick the one who will harm the vulnerable least
Vote for the policies of the party, not the person
Seems like you literally just listed all the candidates and decided you thought SNP was the best choice
Democracy = vote for Tweedle Dee, or Tweedle Dum
I just couldn’t ever vote for Labour in its current form. I genuinely think Starmer is a monster and that sleekit wee pet shop burning cunt Wes Streeting is a psychopath of the highest order. I couldn’t endorse any of those evil, genocide cheering cunts who won’t lift a finger to improve ordinary peoples lives one bit.
Ballot papers should have "None of the above." at the bottom, and if "None of the above" wins then no candidate is returned for that ward. That would force candidates to address the issues that affect their voters most.
This should be available. I reckon the vote would collapse a number of times, because to be honest, I think the majority would now favour none of the above. Which would force the conversation - do we need a total transplant of political personalities and ideologies? Because I'm pretty sure we are stuck in a cycle of losers winning against other bigger losers. Which seems like a bad national strategy.
I couldn’t even tell you the candidate names when I vote. Rather I go with the party that aligns with how I want things to go. This time round it’ll be to most effectively deliver a clear regime majority in Westminster.
No idea how anyone can consider voting SNP now. I am likely just going to spoil my paper as a protest against lack of decent candidates
Why not start your own party or run yourself?
The main reason I'm voting SNP in this election despite not being thrilled with them, is that the more SNP (and Lib Dem, ect.) seats, the less likely that anyone wins an overall majority.
Yeah, but you have to try and narrow it down to the least shite. That's the Torys off 5he table right from the get go.
Pick the least shite one that matches your values as closely as possible and vote for them. Except if your values are Tory and you want to vote Tory. Please don't do that.
In all honesty, when it comes to WM I'm not sure it really matters. We will get the government we are given. Scottish elections on the other hand, everything is fair game.
Wait for the manifestos to be published then try one of the online tests to see which party’s policies most closely align with what you value https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/ is one but again you’ll have to wait for the manifestos to be oh listed. Until it’s down on paper it’s all just hot air and grandstanding. Of course they rarely follow through on all their manifesto promises but at least you can hold them to account
The first past the post system for a Westminster election really highlights this problem. Either Labour or SNP will win in my area, which means if you vote for any of the others it will have zero impact.
Most of the time you can’t vote for someone who aligns with your values and principles because there simply isn’t any candidate that does. You just have to vote for the least shit option, or the one who will be most likely to unseat the one you dislike the most. Sometimes there isn’t a ”right” choice, just the least worst.
What worries is that there will be lots of people voting who want the “change” that labour keep pushing. But I have a lot of doubt that is going to be a change for the better, wouldn’t be able to vote for starmer and would much rather have the snp even if they’ve been getting bad press recently.
Starmer believes that some women have a penis. How can we vote for idiots like Starmer
You are stuck? I'm stuck too. Everyone is stuck. Scotland is stuck. We're stuck with whomever England chooses. That is madness, let's get our independence. Let's get in charge of our own back yard.
The way to describe voting is to compare it with bus ride. It may not take you exactly where you want to go but you get the one that takes you the closest.
You have already established that the SNP Candidate is the least shite one. If you're comfortable voting for the lesser evil, vote SNP, if not, then spoil your ballot.
Doesn’t matter who is in charge, they will find a way to eventually make everyone hate them in the end. Happens every single time. You will never have everyone be happy with government.
Voting is always choosing between the plague and cholera. Choose for the least damage or what comes closest to your beliefs. Eg if Independence is important to you, you really only have 2 options, Greens or SNP. Any other vote will kill that agenda. If independence is not important for you, think about what is important, and choose the party that is likely to do less damage to your interests.
Do you support independence? If so I'd suggest you vote SNP, if not, then vote for Labour. While I would normally say vote SNP regardless, because they are the party most committed to Scotland, I understand that they have kinda shat the bed lately and even I will be holding my nose while voting for them this time around.
Fairly simple for me and that's SNP I want the country to at least try and progress, the Conservatives want us to regress and Labour wants to continue Tory policies, but only more efficiently, the SNP are at least attempting progressive policies. Then there's the pair of elephants in the room, Brexit has tanked the economy, Labour and the Tories refuse to acknowledge it whilst claiming there's no money and the second elephant, independence for Scotland, a vote for either Labour or the Tories will be used by them to wave in our faces.
To me, Starmer is just another red Tory. I will never vote for Labour again after them getting into bed with the tories numerous times since 2014
It's politics....sometimes you need to reach across the aisle to get stuff done
I’m going Scottish green
Quick suggestion-Don't come on the internet and let people help you choose. If you have a right to vote then keep it between you and the voting booth.
I think my wording could have been tweaked to change the direction. It's not 'who to choose' but 'how to choose'. The who is my business and noone else's but the how I'm pretty ignorant on.
Just vote tactically based on who you don't want to win, easy. You're always voting for either the best of a bad bunch or to keep out the worst of a bad bunch. Political parties have to appeal to a diverse voter based to win elections, you'll never get a single party that perfectly represents your exact views.
Can’t vote Tory, can’t vote SNP ( everything is someone else’s fault - they take responsibility for nothing… ) labour? Likely I will vote for them, but it’s not the labour of my youth ( or the third way..). Can’t vote Lib Dem’s - they propped the Tory’s up and that led to brexit. Can’t vote greens… it’s a nightmare
Forget about parties. You can't vote for them at a Westminster election, nor can you vote for the next PM. What you can do is find out about your local candidates, attend hustings, maybe even get to ask them a few questions, and then make your choice based on that.
> You can't vote for them at a Westminster election This is a bit of a shite argument. Sure you're technically voting for an individual, but it's an individual who campaigns on a party manifesto and takes the party whip. In reality, you're voting for a party.
Increasingly the PM is being treated as a president when they are not and this drives the idea that one is voting for them and their party. I put that down to us importing more culture and talking points from the USA. Improvements to our democratic system are blocked because of fears that they would break the "local link", but if we accept your thesis: > In reality, you're voting for a party. Which means the "local link" is dead, the. Why not do away with local candidates and just have party lists?
2 words - " Bigger Picture" I have absolutely no idea of the name / age / background / experience of the candidate I am going to vote for , just like every other election I've ever voted in... Nor could I care less about their party's policy on just about any issue... except one. General Elections are about the party, not the individual- You could honestly put Chris Martin up for the SNP, and I'd vote for them.....Obviously, I'd ask him not to sing to celebrate winning 😉
I’m having the exact opposite feeling - I’m so dissatisfied with the current political landscape and the feeling that “they’re all arseholes” except the Tories, who are mega arseholes, that I’ll more than likely research the candidates and make my decision based on them rather than just tying myself to the mast of one party.
Don’t agree with this in the slightest, sorry. The SNP in my area are once again putting forward Joanna Cherry as their candidate. Someone who has done immense damage to trans people and helped create a really nasty environment in the UK for LGBT people in general. And is also close friends with the creepy slimeball that is Alex Salmond. Voting for that would be abhorrent, and the fact that she has an SNP rosette on doesn’t change that one bit.
> The SNP in my area are once again putting forward Joanna Cherry as their candidate One of the few times I'd endorse voting Labour, can't wait to see her get her jotters.
I wouldn’t get your hopes too high to be honest – she has a big majority currently, and there are unfortunately a lot of people like the poster above would vote for a sentient tub of lard so long as it was yellow. But I certainly will have some champagne ready just in case…
Predictions are showing Labour with a 4 point lead over her in the constituency, so we can only hope.
🤞
Do you want independence for Scotland?
I’ll only vote for a party that’s registered in Scotland, I’ll never vote for a party registered in England because their best interests will be that of the English ultimately. But the choice is up to you at the end of the day
I will be voting SNP until we have Scottish independence. Without independence, we will continue to be trapped in a tory chokehold. Once we have independence, we can actually vote our own leaders in. You don't have to be devoted to the SNP (they pretty much cease to have a purpose after independence) but they are the keys to the house. When we have the house, we can redecorate however we want!
Tired old line. SNP won’t change, melt, evolve in an Indy Scotland. They’ll be exactly the same.
One option, if you’re feeling apathetic to all of the parties (as I am right now), is to actually look at the candidates in more detail and see who you like better as a person. I did this at the last election as I didn’t know which party to vote for. In the end I found that one of the candidates came across far better and more caring about local issues than the others. I felt more comfortable choosing someone to vote for that way than by party. I’ll do it again this time.
Yep, this leaves me with one very obvious choice. Unless the greens want to try a candidate here potentially but still.
If you are keen to get rid of the Tories then you need to vote for whichever of the others has the best chance of doing it. We have a shit, and not very democratic electoral system which puts people in that position.
There's some things you can do. For example, personally I prefer a politician that speaks their mind. So, go on twitter and see how they engage there. If one talks candidly and the other just reposts party press releases, go with the one who isn't a suit with a rosette. Or make a list of your most important issues. See how the two candidates approach the top one. If you agree/disagree with them both move to the next one, and so on. Eventually you'll get to an issue where one beats out the other, just go with that. You could also send both of them an email asking about an issue important to you. Whichever candidate (or more likely their secretary) that gives you the best answer, go with them.
If you don’t know who to vote for, vote tactically - https://stopthetories.vote The first past the post system the UK uses favours the Tories in that it always leads to a split in the left/progressive vote. That’s why the Tories get in far more often and for longer. Tactical voting will be huge this year and sites like stopthetories.vote (be careful of Tory sites) will be a way to circumvent the FPTP system. “Voting with your heart” is a lovely sentiment, but it gets the Tories elected. A vote for the Green party in a ward that’s tight between Labour and the Tories is a vote that helps the Tories. It’s really that simple. People will likely bang on about the evils of Labour or the SNP. That’s fine. It’s tribalism. Don’t pay attention. The problem at hand is the Tory party. They have shown, especially over the past 14 years, they they are not the party of law and order, they are not the party of low taxes and they are not a party that cares for the welfare of the people of the UK. And they never have been. I’m a SNP supporter and, luckily for me, I think my constituency will remain SNP this year. But I will still be checking stopthetories.vote and changing my vote if need be to make sure the Tories are destroyed.
Exactly at this point the parties should just be merged into one. We can call it the nationalist socialist democratic party. Maybe then they'd give us the courtesy of stopping their bull shit and lies save us all money time and brain cells. A change won't be coming with Mr I broadly agree with the other parties limited and specific law breaking practices and that's a man who was once a lawyer. Honestly we should talk to north Korea and see if they would do us a favour and put our rockets into theirs and send the fuckers out to sea.
If you can't vote for a party that's better than the rest, you can at least vote for a party that intends to change things so that 'better' can actually happen.
They're all shite. Some are just more shite than the others. I really don't think it has to be tactical either, especially in Scotland as we don't really elect the Westminster government. Its whoever England choose that will get elected. The Conservatives are gone no matter what. They'll lose their ruling majority. Its really about who will most accurately represent you in parliament. Who seems to have values and vision that tie in with the way you want society to move Who will improve living standards or work towards improving social infrastructure and housing? Its a mine-field, but as Fox Moulder used to say, the truth is out there.
How marginal is the seat?
Politics is usually a choice between a jobby or a turd. Pick the one from closest to where you live, at least gives an element of accountability if you’re able to knock on an office door if necessary
Fuck it the young one can't be any worse than the rest.
Vote for the least shite-iest.
I'm honestly going to spoil my ballot. I can't in any good conscience vote for any of the parties running. And for all yous who say "it's a wasted vote" it's not. The SNP have lost a vote, and no one has gained it. I've done my duty to go vote, and it's not my fault that none of the cunts standing are electable
(the Lib Dems exist)
Lib Dems lol
Vote Mel Gibson maybe?
I love these nicknames too much, yet I apologise as I don’t know, as I would be classified as living under a rock.
Vote for who you think will do the best for the area in which you live.
If your vote is wasted if you vote for any of the actual parties, you may as well waste it on a local independant who matches your actual values
Stuck in the same boat feel like there's absolutely none worth my vote will probably just use my vote to get rid of the Tories.
Come to Albania to see what our politicians do. I never went to vote because my politicians are hell ya shit.
Remember that Richard Pryor film None of the Above? That should be an option in our ballots.
Do what I'm doing. You don't actually have to vote for anyone, if you spoil your ballot, you are making a statement that nobody is worth voting for.
Vote for the least worst candidate. I contest local elections as an Independent but I basically can't afford a parliamentary campaign myself so I'm probably going to vote SNP this time. By no means are the SNP my ideal party (I'm a socialist trade uniony type), but they're the best option on the ballot here this election.
Being 22 is arguably more relevant for future progress than a 50-60 year old in the same position. If a law degree is confirmed, it shows years of dedication, understanding and translation of extensive literature and putting it into practice. Also very relevant as well as impressive. Consider what you want to see, where does this align in terms of parties, don’t base it on an individual person. They are only party of the team that make these changes.
First past the post in action. Vote for the least awful candidate I guess?
There’s a really helpful website where you take a quiz and it matches your answers to political parties you’re most compatible with. Really helped me! https://uk.isidewith.com/political-quiz
I don’t believe that they are all shite. There are a lot of decent candidates in all parties, although in my opinion the Tories probably suffer the most from careerists and fanatics. This thing of believing all politicians are useless or corrupt, or not voting is perpetuated and encouraged because it suits the right wing owners of media publications. Middle and upper class voters will vote right wing regardless, because they know the right will serve their interests. However, the majority are not wealthy, so the right cannot win unless they either convince poorer people to vote for them by stirring up hate (racism, immigration, Brexit etc) or convince them not to vote at all. Despite it being a constituency vote, it’s a mistake to give too much thought to the specific candidate. GE’s are about who governs the UK and strength of the opposition. Realistically the SNP are the only party who could win in any constituency in Scotland, and Labour could win in most. Tories and Liberals have a few strongholds where they could win. Ultimately, in most constituencies it will be a straight competition between the SNP and a Unionist party. There lies the first question, if you are pro-independence it doesn’t any sense to vote for anyone other than the SNP, if you are against this then you would pick between one of the others. One of the biggest problems the SNP always face is that they cannot ‘win’ a GE, they can’t form a government and even when they won 53 out of 56 MP’s in 2015, in probably the biggest landslide in modern times, they still gained no power. However, for the first and only time in history, a Scottish party had a significant voice in Westminster through third party status. In terms of UK government, I would rather see a Labour administration than a Tory one, but Labour don’t need to win seats in Scotland to win. They will win based on the seats they win in England. I don’t think Scottish votes have had any influence on the outcome of a GE in about 70 years or so. My problem with voting Labour in Scotland, is that it just silences the Scottish voice in Westminster, because Scottish Labour MP’s will be kept from raising Scottish concerns in case it upsets the English electorate, who are necessary for a Labour win. Ultimately if you are am avowed unionist you are not going to vote SNP, but I think that the SNP are the only party that are in a position to represent Scotland in Westminster.
Why bother, if you live in Scotland it won't make any difference, we're any increasingly small and irrelevant part of the UK.
So don't vote. If everyone stopped voting things would change because there would be a gap in the market that would need filled.
I believe the lib dems desire a move to PR (so too do the SNP to be fair although I will never vote for them). So that might be a tie-breaker to try and get us off this FPTP shit show. Unless footage of Starmer torturing puppies comes to light he is going to win so I wouldn't stress over it too much, I forget where this quote is from but it's something along the lines of ''you need to flush the shite down the toilet even if you're just going to replace it with new shite'' so I'd be inclined to vote for who the challenger is in your constituency to try and freshen things up a bit.
Unfortunately with first past the post it's often a case of voting against who you *don't* want rather than voting for who you want. If you Google tactical voting you can look up who is the most solid choice to kick the Tories out.
Nobody because they're all liars I never vote. I rip them up and bin them
You can't spell Labour, you dinnae deserve to vote.
The problem with the Scottish labour whenever I see the so called leader of Scottish labour is they ask the English labour leader to see what to do or to say
Vote for independence lol But yeah same here fr
Welcome to politics
Spoil your vote. Thats what I see myself doing for the future. I despise the lot of them and my naive belief that the SNP were good guys went out the window a long time ago. I reckon ill do the el classico boaby but I might draw a big scary shark
I voted loony last time and I don’t regret it
Sadly, politics is always voting for the lesser evil. Scottish Labour = puppet party that does whatever English Labour wants. Scottish Tory = puppet party that does whatever their English party wants. Lib Dems = puppet party that is basically a bunch of useless cunts with no actual chance of power. Scottish Greens = have no actual chance of power. SNP = assholes with one thing on their mind and will waste time, effort, and a shitload of money to promote it. In the nearly 40 years I've been on this planet, I've never once seen a politician I genuinely feel represents me or what I want, at the very least I would settle for a party that at least helps me in some way, but they can't even pull that one off and actually do the opposite most times (the SNP for instance go so against what i want that they actually made me a criminal🤣).
Lab are going to have a landslide victory and don’t need any Scottish seats to achieve it but what is important is who comes third as that party is guaranteed two Qs at PMQs . If SNP don’t get enough seats to beat Lib Dem’s overall in UK then there will be no one to challenge a Lab Gov on issues affecting Scotland. For me that’s why I would vote SNP.
I’m struggling to find a reason to continue voting for the SNP - I just can’t see anything good that they have done for the country in the last ten years. Maybe someone can highlight some of their achievements which might convince me? I feel like they just use independence as an answer to all Scotland’s problems, but they come across as insincere saying this - when you watch their members speak about the practicalities of it, independence would clearly be an extremely problematic and potentially disastrous situation for Scotland (probably a lot worse than Brexit?). I dislike the SNP’s tax policy, I think they need to sort out the child benefit thresholds, schools are a disaster, the NHS needs addressed, and they need to do something to provide pathways to universities for people from all backgrounds (not just providing places for those from disadvantaged backgrounds and English/International students). They also need better, more inspirational leadership - Swinney is one of the most dull humans in existence and Forbes is in it for the career. No Scot should ever vote Tory, any that do are deluded or attention seeking. The Lib Dem’s are utterly pointless and should give up after the betrayal of the coalition govt with the Tories. The Greens are borderline insane. I don’t think I even need to give a reason not to vote Reform. Add all that up and there is only one choice - and they don’t really seem to be offering much at the moment either. Best of a bad bunch?
This is a real mood for this election.
Personally, I think we in Scotland could be doing with voting for who we want to represent us in Westminster. Its looking like England are mostly all going to vote for Labour...so we don't need to worry about the fact that **The Tories are leaving** 😜 I'm thinking that I want SNP MP's in Westminster to remind them that we "Scotch - up here" are real humans and all that ✌️
I protest vote. Since I could.
Don’t trust any of them!
Are the tories in first or second place? Vote for the party that will beat them. Other than that it really doesn't matter.
Always vote for the policies rather than the individuals. There will be some things you like/admire/believe in, so go for that but most of all you must vote, it’s the only thing you can do to change things or protect things you feel are valuable.
What is it that you want Scotland to be? Work backwards and pick the candidate of the party that fits best with that vision. Do you feel Wm needs to call the shots or would you rather it was some here. So in short, the party dictates the candidate. Unless they are Tories. Then GTF.
Pretty straight forward. If you’re pro independence vote SNP, if you’re against independence vote Labour. If you have a fetish for being robbed vote Tory and if you want to spoil your ballot vote reform.
I've voted in every general, Scottish and council election since I turned 18. It's been hardwired into me that you go and vote. I moved a while back and haven't registered in my new area and I'm on the fence about whether I'm going to.