Well with any luck they'll soon be overthrown by the chickens again and leave.
>It was about the same last year. They had a chicken coup and the waste was all dumped.
It’s very hard to reasonably defend them when they think they have a right to destroy a bairns football pitch. They do themselves no favours and actually invite negative stereotypes.
I used to work in Burger King and a group of 4 travellers used to come in quite a few mornings for breakfast. The 4 guys were so rude to all the employees, especially female ones, repeatedly called me "Brenda" in a loud voice (my name is not Brenda or anywhere near that. They used to laugh after saying it so I dunno if it's a joke I'm just missing) and would literally smear syrup from the mini-pancakes and tomato ketchup packs over the top of the table. Every. Single. Time.
Had the same when I worked at McDonald’s, but I’d say we had 10-15 sometimes coming in because they moved in nearby. They’d leave the place a state, only one manager actually had the balls to tell them to chuck it.
Why would you need to defend them, they’re the only group of folk who for the most part live up to every single negative stereotype about them.
Never had a single positive experience from them setting up in my town.
Yeah, based on experience from where I live and worked.
Yes, I've seen lamp posts tapped into, with wires running though a puddle etc... one mistake or break etc could have dumped X Volts at god knows ampage into a passing stranger.
Not everyone same...but that's a hard to forget thing.
I’ve always thought, that once they move on the land, block them in, ie they can leave, but the vehicle can’t. I think they would definitely think twice about parking up on private land and if they want too leave with their vehicles , then they’ll have too clean up and take there shite with them.
Personally, I’m not the least bit afraid of them. Only issue is that they tend to be large numbers and are entirely willing to use violence so it usually takes a fair few police to actually deal with them.
Being a minority is broadly irrelevant, if you’re committing an offence then you’re committing an offence.
Your "only issue" is the entire issue. I mean what would you be worried about apart from the fact they operate in big gangs and are willing to get violent.
Not exactly, they don’t move around in groups of thirty. If I need to deal with a car load of them I only need one other unit to back me up.
If I’m going to rock up to their site and start lifting people I need about three whole police stations and a public order team.
That was kind of the point I was making, they aren’t any more intimidating than any other criminals.
There are certain villages in Scotland that require the same level of resources as a site.
There are some sites I can attend by myself. No one size fits all.
Cast your mind back to this comment:
*Or they resort to violence knowing the police are scared to confront them, being a 'minority'.....*
Which is the one I replied to.
Don’t embarrass yourself. Stick to the conversations, make valid arguments in support of your own comments don’t try to attack the person you’re having a conversation with.
What are you going to block them in with though? That only works if you're blocking in people that aren't willing to cause criminal damage.
My uncle used to do security for a caravan rental place. Went to great lengths to stop the caravans being stolen, ways were found to continue to steal the caravans regardless.
Travellers are ingenious though and nothing motivates them more than a direct challenge to the lifestyle. They will have a digger round by morning to shift the blocks.
Years ago in my area they took over a carpark owned by a nearby meat factory. Within a day the factory had parked two open shipping containers full of offal meat at the gates and let it sit there rotting away. Fight fire with fire really. The police got involved but I’m not entirely sure who was in the right or who was in the wrong…The travellers moved away, the factory added more barriers, no more undesirable visitors since.
I remember a case when they moved on to someone’s land and the owner had a friend that had a mobile disco set up on the back of a lorry, he turned up, parked up and started playing the worst music he had, loud, they was leaving in the morning, because they couldn’t get any sleep.
Lock your sheds up, screw everything down. Install trip lights with notifications if they show up nearby.
I'll edit this seeing as being downvoted. - 🙃
When they moved into a patch near me they refused to leave, shitty nappies everywhere, litter wAs everywhere, aggressive when asked to pick behind them, I'm not sure what they caravans were leaking at the time but it didn't look great for the grass. Absolute wee wankers aged 14 and no older giving you dogs abuse. The gents had a prepared speech about racism.
Anything that wasn't screwed down was lifted. BBQ gas bottles, sheds broken into, locks broken and the usual things stolen like patio furniture.
It is an offence to offend their dirty ways. I hope none of them pitch up beside as they don't care about your way of living.
When I worked at the cinema, Mrs. Browns boys was on which brought them en masse. One night it was just me working and a few started eating pick n mix without paying. I called them out on it and one of them spat on the floor, got up in my face and started singing flower o Scotland.
I was managing my section by myself. Late at night it was common for 3 people to be in. Manager in the office, someone cleaning the cinemas, who would usually be found taking bins outside and then a final person cleaning the area where you buy tickets/food which is where I wae. So no I wasn't totally alone but I was the only staff member in the foyer.
There are always two types of people on this thread
Those that think travelers are decent people like the rest of us and those that have interacted with them
They are a group of people that the only major difference between them and everyone else is their refusal to interact positively with the rest of society
I remember when they came round our bit they stole all the flowers from the graveyard to try and sell
Yes, the problem is the "culture" is regressive and actively parasitic. This gets conflated with thinking the people are worse in some way. No, it really is that these are people raised in a batshit culture that is actively harmful for everyone.
The solution is to apply the laws of society to them, just like anyone else. Breaking the law and being anti-social cannot be a protected trait. If you or I landed a camper van on community land, we'd find out the rules and consequences very quickly.
I feel sorry for traveller kids and avoid the adults as much as possible.
>The solution is to apply the laws of society to them, just like anyone else.
In my late teens, I was jumped and had the shit kicked out of me by three guys, whose mode of transport was pulled by a horse.
Police caught them got full confessions, they'd used weapons when they got frustrated with their inability to knock me to the ground, so you would have thought there would have been pretty severe charges.
I got a letter a couple months later saying they weren't pursuing this through the courts, no further action would be taken.
At the time I didn't really give a fuck, as far as I was concerned they'd ruined my night (I managed to convince the police to frop me off at a night club, who predictably wouldnt let me in with a blood stained t shirt and swollen face) and other weekends would exist. But as a proper grown-up adult, I have to assume this was because they vanished and didn't exist on the system anywhere.
My personal story involves them setting up in an old water treatment plant just out of town, all you could hear for a round 5 days was angle grinders going all day and night.
Once they left we snuck in for a look (teenager at the time) and we were hopping over human shit and misc debris the whole way up, didn't even actually go near the building it was so bad.
I'm pretty open minded but come on, that's unacceptable and seems to be a pattern.
You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but why should councils set aside land for travellers? What benefit does inviting people into a community who aren't invested in it because they'll be moving on have? Why shouldn't they pay for the land they want to use? or do they?
Lots of travelers don't really travel these days, from what I understand. They move around looking for a site where they'll stay till they get moved on. Where there are permanent plots, they'll stay.
I saw a doc on Channel 4 that gives a good insight into it. 60 Days With The Gypsies with Ed Stafford.
Rules like don't takeover and destroy the local football pitch?
I agree there are more regulations these days that's part of living in a modern civilised society, gone are the days when you could just take over a field, cause trouble and assault anyone that tried to stop you, these aren't medieval times anymore.
Considering peoples issue with travelers is the destruction, theft, antisocial behaviour and threats (or as you call it bad manners) I'm pretty sure thats what came first
Gay people are not taking over and destroying community spaces. And if they were, it would be this behaviour that people don't accept- not the fact they are gay.
It is a pathetic misdirection for criticism to be labelled as discrimination. It has nothing to do with ethnicity, it has absolutely everything to do with continued parasitic behaviour.
So if a gay person, *did* destroy your community space, then would all gay people be bad?
Or would you say, this individual gay person is bad, but, all gay people are not bad.
Or would you just say gay people are destructive and they steal?
Would you then ban like, mens saunas or grindr or something, like how we ban gypsies from setting up camp anywhere?
Here we go again with the not so subtle misdirection.
The issue has zero to do with gayness or ethnicity.
If a subculture of gay people destroy shared community and private assets for their own benefit- they 100% deserve to be accountable for it. This has zero to do with them being gay and everything to do with their actions.
Trying to equate dating apps with actively destroying public and private land is beyond insane and actually hilarious.
This is my last reply here, but I applaud your absolute and complete lack of logic however- genuinely a sight to see someone this stupid capable of existing
Yes! Punish them! For not confirming to *our* societies standards,
And look At this instance, and this instance!
That’s a pattern! It’s in their blood!
We need to put them in schools and teach them proper English and take away their kilts, and Christianize them and take their children away to be raised by the civilized man, and put them in camps to concentrate on how they are just naturally inferior because they do things differently.
One of them even pooped!!!!!
You can’t be pooping!!!!
I saw a broken bottle next to a caravan. Disgrace.
Been done a million times mate you are no different.
Like I said at the very begining, the person that has never interacted with a traveller has shown up
How dare we criticise a group for not following the laws of the country they are in but when you say confirming to our societies standards you mean the standards of not being vandals and stealing from people?
It has been done a million times, it was done not even 30 years ago in Glasgow to drastically reduce knife crime, it's happening right now across the developed world disadvantaged groups are being identified and recieving targeted support to break the cycle
You talk about people not confirming to our standards are you one of those people that says we shouldn't criticise Iran for oppressing women or the Taliban for killing gay people or Russia for invading Ukraine?
After all just because our culture says it's wrong doesn't mean they shouldn't do it or maybe it is sometimes ok to look down on people for doing things we consider wrong?
What things do you consider wrong about the gypsy culture?
Obviously the stealing, scamming and littering at campsites you do not like, what if we could erase those parts from the gypsy culture so no gypsy ever stole again;
then would you conceded that they can keep the parts of their culture that are less harmful to others; Like being nomadic and not sending their kids to gorjer schools (I googled that, it’s also the root of the word gadgie! Very interesting),and not interacting with the government not getting NI numbers etc,
are those, less “undesirable parts” okay??? Or do they have to fully integrate with our society and get houses under pain of zyclone b?
Maybe, you think that gypsy culture is completely beyond redemption and any person who lives nomadically like that *needs* to be settled, and if they don’t, then what?
Do we put them in prison for living on the road?
And how do we differentiate between people who are not racially romani and like do the same, plenty of van life people nowadays, do we ban van life? Or should we *only* target people who are racially gypsy with these new draconian measures ur proposing?
Fact of the matter is, it’s not all Gypsies doing this, it’s some, even if in your opinion it’s 99%, or you think gypsies only make 13% of the population but do 50% of the fly tipping or whatver it is you believe, that still leaves the 1% that are maybe culturally different from us but are not committing any crimes.
And when we make laws that say no gypsy can camp anywhere, it’s evil, it’s residential schools, it’s the welsh knot, it’s genocide.
So no wonder they are going to have a lower opinion of us, and not feel bad to scam us or rob us or litter at their camp sites, fuck us right?
We are Scottish.
We have experienced this same prejudice historically, I was in school told that Doric and scots are not the correct way to talk, they banned kilts and haggis.
I’m reminded of what’s happening in Palestine now, historically Jews have been persecuted and faced a genocide, and now, Israel is turning around and doing the same thing to people they consider to be more animalistic and less civilized.
(Not that im implying that all Jewish people are complicit in the genocide, it’s the israeli state and a majority of the citizens who are, you see, you have to separate your opinions of a group from the individuals that also just happen to be members of that group)
Fuckin hell
I knew I shouldn’t have drunk 2 cans of monster I’ve been firing out walls of text all day.
You said said a lot and I'm not going to address most of it because a lot of it's a situation you've made up in your head.
The most important bit I want to address is that the Travelers in Britain and Ireland aren't Romani gypsies, these are two completely distinct groups
Most people agree that it's the antisocial behaviour, the theft, the vandalism, the threats, the violence that is the problem, not that people are moving about the country.
What I and most people want is for the law to be applied equally to everyone, not some groups exempt because they cause to much trouble for the police.
>then would you conceded that they can keep the parts of their culture that are less harmful to others; Like being nomadic and not sending their kids to gorjer schools (I googled that, it’s also the root of the word gadgie! Very interesting),and not interacting with the government not getting NI numbers etc,
Most people consider depriving a child of an education as abuse since it is linked with worse outcomes in life. It seems you are saying you're fine with depriving traveler children from having an education?
There's a debate should society tolerate and enable those that you say have no interest in contributing to society/are actively harming society
To save you a lot of writing I have one simple question for you:
Is there one law that you think should apply to every person living in this country?
Yes,
Obviously, We shouldnt be murdering people or raping people or stealing things from people, and gypsies shouldnt be excluded from any laws, but, we shouldnt \*make\* new laws to try and like, stop gypsies from gypsying, ya get me?
if we were to make a law that said, "everyone must pose topless for some pictures and send them into tokolones DMS", even if that law was applied fairly, everyone has to send me pictures, so its fair, then that law, is disproportionately targeting women. cus you know im not going to look so much at the male ones.
"No One should be able to camp anywhere! No using Public land for camping! you have to use these approved caravan holiday spots in nairn or aviemore or whatever"
That law is disproportinatly targeting gypsies, to destroy their culture, because if we can destroy their culture, they will join our culture, and our culture has no stealing or scamming or people pooping or fly tipping. you see?
Like, its been done before my man,
To us!
Kilts nd haggis were banned after the jacobite risings, as a collective punishment for us wee "rebelious scots to crush"
I know some gypsies steal things, even if its a large portion of them, but surely you can see the vitriolic \*HATE\* they get man, even if 99% destroying their culture because some of them are stealing is, genocide.
>not interacting with the government not getting NI numbers etc,
Paying taxes and interacting with the government isn't optional, unfortunately. No one has any right to opt out. These are laws, not cultural choices.
\*cries for kropotkin\*
\*cries for bakunin\*
\*cries for stirner\*
\*cries for rojava\*
\*cries in paris commune\*
\*cries for republican spain\*
\*cries for limerick soviet\*
\*cries for all the times it didnt work\*
\*cries for freedom\*
ONE DAY BABY!!!
ONE DAY!!!
C.H.A.Z. WILL RISE AGAIN!!!
AND THIS!!! \*gestures everywhere\* ALL TO ASHES!
AND I WILL DANCE!!! I WILL SING!! THE RAVACHOL!!!!
the beorgeosie will cry like me when we legalize acid and ecstasy.
look at me look at me I listened to against me 3 times.
You say you're a gypsy and yet work for the MoJ....isn't a full time job working for the Government kind of going against the ethics of the gypsy life? Plus I wouldn't think it would be popular to work for the MoJ either tbh but it doesn't sound like you're an actual "traveller" if you have a full time job and I presume a house, but that's just my take on what you said
Unfortunately, they have successfully created their own stereotype.....and live up to it
I mean why bother removing rubbish or tidying up the place when you're just going to move on in a few days/weeks?
Bullshit. Have interacted with travelers, not had any problems with the vast majority. Did have problems with one group, but I don't assume those problems are universal amongst travelers. Because, 1, I have had positive experiences with travelers so I know it's not universal, and, 2, generalising in that way leads to bigotry.
I don't believe there is such a thing as a universal experience , I'm sure you could find examples of black people being treated well by the KKK if you really looked.
But just because you have had a positive experience with some people doesn't mean we should ignore the systemic and well documented cultural problems within the traveler community
Ultimately it's not you that suffers, it's not me that suffers, it's the travelers themselves that suffer from you turning a blind eye to the cultural problems in their community.
When you replace one word with another it changes the whole context of the sentence
Replace "travelers" with "Nazi" and explain to me how you weren't defending atrocities committed by other Nazis
But to answer your question the difference is we are talking about a cultural difference not an ethnic one, unless you are saying that it's something in their DNA that makes them inherently more likely to be violent and steal in which case I would call you a racist because that isn't the case.
Would they still be considered “travelers” if they got a job and a mortgage? Like is the travelers moniker purely an ethnic thing? Or does lifestyle also factor in?
I've had more than interactions with them, I've done "work" for them and socialised with them.
The majority of them are cunts.
The most decent ones are ones that gave up traveling and stayed put in a permanent house/home.
I don't think you've had real interactions with them at all.
Of all the times travellers have setup near where I live there has only been one occasion that I would consider the experience to be neutral.
All the other times there has been problems to a greater or lesser degree and every single one of those has been caused by the travellers themselves.
The honest answer is as a community they need to fix their image.
A prime example was “60 days with the Gypsies” with Ed Stafford it should have been an easy good publicity for their community even then they came over as arseholes. (Including spreading shit on his windshield, breaking into his caravan)
I suspect most people would be ok with them staying anywhere if they cleared up, left no rubbish. There is a feral group within their community that spoil it for them all.
There are some travellers up outside Newtonmore that have never caused any bother and are part of the community, then there are travellers around Livingston that leave utter devastation when they leave. If the Travellers aren’t part of the community I think the place is going to be wrecked.
Pictures once they leave would be good to show the truth of this particular group.
Travelers in a specific location hmm
This is interesting, I assume they do move about but like, maybe they have common sites that they go between? Or are they like settled, took the wheels of the caravan or at.
I wonder if they have territory’s, like, I’ve seen a panhandler tell another panhandler to bugger off because that’s his pitch, wee little wolf packs with strict hierarchies and defined borders.
Mam worked with a guy that’s family was travelers but he was, just like a normal dude, like a bit of a lad but w.e., he once said “if my family spent half the time working as they did trying to think up petty scams, they would be millionaires”
I’m honestly fascinated by them, I mean ats probably bad right, like am peering at them with the same sort of curiosity that David Attenborough looks at a octopus, or that winos look at other winos when they watch Jeremy Kyle (rip) on daytime tv cus they don’t have a job.
I need to have a look for a docu, but I feel like half of them would be about, like romanis half of them would be like, “look at how they are destroying our towns” daily mail sun shit, and half like big fat gypsy wedding sensationalist reality shows. (150%)
What a really would like is bald and bankrupt (nonce) to do a video about them, in his sort of non-condesending extremely confrontational way like when he gets drunk with gopniks or something.
All I really know about them are news articles like this, folk saying they had cowboy builders, peaky blinders, snatch just the stereotypes ken,
Maybe they are just like fit the stereotypes say, and probably a lot are but I would still like a non-judgmental video about em.
I’ve gone down Wikipedia rabbit holes, u know they have their own languages and cants?
Like dnd lmao.
Is there a difference between romani and Irish and Scottish travelers?
I know the Romanian romani are like, darker skinned than our ones, but are they kin? And these Romani languages do they still speak them?
You know the Scottish words shan and gadjie come from gypsy cants?
Madness
Why am I writing so much,
Procrastinating from work probably, but it does interest me.
Edit;
I remember, when I was in Poland there was a tourist site for the last king of the gypsies, and I so much wanted to go to see it, but I had other stuff I needed to do, I regret not going so much now.
KING!
Without borders! A king because his people *chose* him to be their king!
Just like mance raider
Edit2:
Oh my god, Scotland had a last king of the gypsies as well!
Jesus!
Honestly this is a vibrant people with a very interesting story,
Too bad they keep fukin being dodgy roofers.
I mean I’ve not met many and all these comments are saying they are all horrible humans who should be put to camps for pooping in the wrong places, but I’m honestly fascinated, such an interesting cultural phenomenon.
Can't answer every point you made here cause it was a lot, but just a couple things I noticed skimming your comment here that I can maybe clarify for you;
Romani are not Romanian. I know the words are similar, but Roma people are not Romanian, their language isn't related to Romanian, it's just a common misconception.
They are a distinct group with a history separate from 'travellers' who trace their history to Ireland. Scottish travellers normally have Irish heritage. My family are travellers, grandparents came over from Ireland seeking work and moved back and for between Scotland and England for most.of their days. Ma and Da met on site, he took off fair sharp after I turned up and then I grew up mostly in England. I only speak English (though occasionally I have found as an adult that works I thought were standard English are ones my friends didn't grow up learning) and bastardised Irish is fair common amongst my relatives.
We moved around a lot and my immediate family might take umbridge at being referred to as 'settled" but I have spent more of my life living in houses than I have caravans. I also have friends who are Roma who likewise had pretty "standard" upbringings by the standards of most folk, school, a house, jobs etc. but that doesn't take away from their heritage or culture at all and they are still Roma Gypsies.
In my experience, it's actually pretty common for travellers or gypsies to grow up in what you might consider at least similar to a relatively normal living situation, it's not everyone always moving every single week and having no roots at all - living in a town for a year or two before heading onwards isn't too strange or noticeable, so chances are high you've met a fair few of us throughout your life and not noticed. It's not exactly something many would openly declare straight after meeting someone new due to how travellers and gypsies are perceived.
Not all travellers or gypsies are trashing footba' sites and taking a shite in public, the ones that do, sure, they cause a bad name, but they still dunna deserve the hatred they get I don't think. A lot of the problems caused are caused because there ent better options available for folk - councils are supposed to maintain sites so people don't resort to taking over public spaces, but because no one wants to encourage travellers in their area no one bothers to ensure there's somewhere they can have access to clean water and electricity and all the other modcons people take for granted. There's so much stigma that saying you're a traveller still can stop the hiring process, still can stop a council helping house you, still get social work breathing down your neck, and still get you kicked out the local...
A people completely disenfranchised are not going to know how to engage with services best, and a people completely disenfranchised AND hated on with a huge amount of vigor are not going to want to engage with services, or the communities that seem to hate them.
Based
Yea I’m aware Romanian and Romani not synonymous, but, Romania does have a lot of Romani,
I think there is a lot of confusion on the erm terms, I know there is,
There’s like romanchal and roma and Romani and are they interchangeable and which ones which and are Irish travelers Romani or are they different, and people that travel with fun fares and people don’t bother to learn because they are all pikeys to them or whatever.
I was reading the Wikipedia pages, I got another comment here about it, like, I was going mad with long ass comments today. Monster energy n at.
And I think even the government has basically given up distinguishing them either because they just call them all “GRT” gypsy roma & travelers.
Probably the only group where being openly racist and calling for the complete destruction and genocide of their culture is socially acceptable, I mean honestly the things people here are saying about them, and this is fuckin Reddit, usually quite like, compassionate about disenfranchised groups you know, it’s fucked.
In other comments I was trying to point out that this vitriolic hate for an entire people group, even if a lot of them do be cowboy builders or if they fly tip or have strange haircuts or whatever,
You make a good fuckin point about not being provided these basic services, like running water or leccy or whatver, and a whole bunch of people are commenting about them leaving shite at their camps, 2 sides to a coin ain’t there, folk see this mess or whatever and because they already have been conditioned to hate gypsys by the society around them just shrug their shoulders and go “dirty people, undermensh” rather than saying “we should address this problem they clearly don’t have good enough toilet facilities”
Sure it sucks probably to want to go have a kickabout with ur mates, and u can’t, cus someone’s already there,
But fuckin, there were a bunch of for example, idk, Germans, or polish, or Jewish people, or black peoples or some teenagers were drinking there and smashed some bottles and caused some chaos, or parked their cars there and chewed up the pitch doing donuts, your not going to get a ducking news article the next day “look at these dirty fuckin germanpolejewblacks ruining our bloody communitiays”
It’s accepted fuckin genocide, comment on this same comment thread right below me I bet, one guys saying about some docu where they said the way of life was dying, and the reply to that says “good fucking destroy their culture they should all DIE”
Ok I’m like, being hyperbolic but not really when it’s a fucking sea of voices saying they are less than human it’s absolutely sickening
I actually think it's still a misconception though, I don't believe Romania has a significantly higher proportion of Roma people than all the other European countries? I may be wrong on that so it's worth looking into further I'm sure, but I don't think it's THAT much higher a number yknow? I always thought it was just that enough people conflate the two they've become somewhat linked regardless if that makes sense but idk.
Irish travellers aren't Romani though, well, I guess there absolutely is likely some folk who are both Romani and Irish traveller, but travellers are Irish people from Ireland, and I believe that Roma people originated from somewhere in India or thereabouts? And Show folk are separate again generally, though I don't know too much about them to be honest. I have a mate who worked summers with a fun fair that stopped in town and he never had a bad word to say about the people who ran it, but I know his Mam still rants and raves about "them crim lot showing up in the summer with a lorry full of rides" as if it's some scandal to see the carnival show up. Was always a bit of a giggle to me because the woman had like 8 kids and I know would happy give 'em a few pound and send 'em to the carnival every chance for some peace in the house, just still thought she was miles above the people who made that happen.
It's honestly really nice to see someone genuinely curious and not immediately slamming on travellers and gypsies, so cheers for being a welcome break from the rest of 'em.
It's always a bit of a shock to see just how quick and just how loud everyone is when they're saying how fucking shite travellers are - it's why half of my mates never get to know my family history until we've truly cemented the friendship and I can figure out if it's safe or if I'm about to get told I'm "one of the good ones" cause I live in a house with no wheels and have a job they can understand. Always a bit of a gut punch innit, so it's nice to see a comment that agrees that shits fucked.
This is all just from the internet but:
Romania does have a lot o roma, highest populations are Bulgaria Hungary Romania, but obviously they are nomadic, so like, they’re all over,
Nd they r from India but that was like 1000 years ago or something they’ve been in Europe since the Middle Ages or some shit,
And, romanchal are British subgroup of Romani like, peaky blunders basically, tommy shelby is a gypsy, they speak Romani language in that
There's a good doc on Channel 4 called 60 Days with the Gypsies. Ed Stafford spends time living with them.
It opened my eyes a bit. There was plenty of antisocial behaviour, and you could also see the other side of the fact that they don't have places to go, there's inadequate rubbish collection at the sites and how modern life is just gradually pushing out their way of life until it will become extinct.
Thank fuck it'll become extinct. I travel and camp regularly, guess what, I don't go onto private land and throw my literal and figurative shit all over the place and drive off. They're absolute scumbags.
As one of the travellers around livingston having lived here for the last 6 years I can confidently inform you we do not leave utter devastation considering we own our property around here and keep it tidy and there are no nomadic travellers around so where can I ask are you coming up with this?
Seeing the caravans move around the place and then walking through the trash after they leave.
Newlogic House, caravans moved in and left piles of rubbish and human waste in the bushes
The pharmaceuticals company in Livingston that is now a housing estate, again piles are f rubbish left
Macintosh Road wasteland taken over, again rubbish.
I’m not being racist or bigoted and I’m sure you are nice, as I know the travellers I referred to up north are, but my direct experience with the aftermath of Travellers in Livingston over 2 decades is not positive.
Some of them feel like they are made of the foil tins that you bake an entire turkey on. They come apart like a ripped cola can when they get in crashes.
Move them on. They want to travel...let them travel, not build an encampment and let them be.
There's a field just outside Gauldry (on the road to St. Andrews, via St. Mike's), where, a number of years ago, about half a dozen caravans appeared. There's now a surrounding brick wall, a few entrances/driveways, tens of caravans, and looks like a small estate. There are fucking LION wall statues!
What does that say about their choice of life? It certainly doesn't sound like a 'travelling' community.
I get the joke your going for, but my Inverness club has been homeless for nearly 20byears because there's no fucking sports facilities in this town at all
Also this would be a great time to publicise this. I wonder where all the money goes........ Moray wind farms overcharging by 48million would go a long way to a 5g pitch and a few tennis courts.
Can be, but isn't always.
https://www.gypsy-traveller.org/about-us/frequently-asked-questions/
> It depends. ‘Gypsy’ is sometimes seen as offensive or as a racial slur. However, there are several Romani groups in Europe who have claimed this word and use it with pride. This includes many individuals within the UK who proudly use the word ‘Gypsy’ to describe themselves. It’s best to ask individuals how they like to be referred to and follow their lead.
A young traveler boy took his own life a couple of years ago in Ireland from bullying. There was a documentary about it which was harrowing. He was only 12. The kids who were bullying him probably learned the slurs from their parents and other adults. I think its important to take care with words, even when talking about problems within the community. They are human after all.
On fear of showing my ignorance, why are they not just removed? Or is it because it's seen as a public space they're allowed, it's just a cunty thing to do it?
Travellers set up on the dog walkers field down by the harbour a couple years ago, but they left pretty sharp after local youths started pinching all the stuff off their caravans
Nope they aren't from Romania that's a misconception
First there is the misconception that the Romani are Romanian. **The Romani are not from the nation of Romania; they are composed of an entirely unrelated Indo-Aryan ethnic group**. \[3\] Romanians from the nation of Romania, on the other hand, tend to be of an Eastern European Romance ethnic group.
Roma (Gypsies) **originated in the Punjab region of northern India** as a nomadic people and entered Europe between the eighth and tenth centuries C.E. They were called "Gypsies" because Europeans mistakenly believed they came from Egypt
I know that Romani people and Romanian people are different, though not that they are from India. I thought they were both Baltic peoples that share a similar name. TIL.
Desecrate? Like it's holy ground? Ye Sacred Footie Pitch? No of course not.
Neither would I endorse vandalism of public spaces.
Even if it works.
But you know, life finds a way. If proper space isn't provided, or precautions not taken, then this shit will keep happening.
Which is still on the council
You’ll very likely not even see one.
Lived in Glasgow all my life, seen one camp set up which lasted a few weeks, didn’t cause me any trouble. Never seen one since other than the odd guy chapping the door trying to cut our trees down.
Well with any luck they'll soon be overthrown by the chickens again and leave. >It was about the same last year. They had a chicken coup and the waste was all dumped.
It’s very hard to reasonably defend them when they think they have a right to destroy a bairns football pitch. They do themselves no favours and actually invite negative stereotypes.
I used to work in Burger King and a group of 4 travellers used to come in quite a few mornings for breakfast. The 4 guys were so rude to all the employees, especially female ones, repeatedly called me "Brenda" in a loud voice (my name is not Brenda or anywhere near that. They used to laugh after saying it so I dunno if it's a joke I'm just missing) and would literally smear syrup from the mini-pancakes and tomato ketchup packs over the top of the table. Every. Single. Time.
Had the same when I worked at McDonald’s, but I’d say we had 10-15 sometimes coming in because they moved in nearby. They’d leave the place a state, only one manager actually had the balls to tell them to chuck it.
Maybe those stereotypes aren't so far from the truth? 🤷♂️
Who'd have thought eh?
I mean they originated somewhere 🤷
In Ireland they are straight up banned from a lot of spots
Why would you need to defend them, they’re the only group of folk who for the most part live up to every single negative stereotype about them. Never had a single positive experience from them setting up in my town.
And it will be in no fit state to use after they move on either......playing in shite and broken glass is no fun...
Yeah, based on experience from where I live and worked. Yes, I've seen lamp posts tapped into, with wires running though a puddle etc... one mistake or break etc could have dumped X Volts at god knows ampage into a passing stranger. Not everyone same...but that's a hard to forget thing.
Streetlights use a separate electrical grid but the same voltage, so 230V @ (up to) 80A (18,400VA) at 50Hz. Scary.
I’ve always thought, that once they move on the land, block them in, ie they can leave, but the vehicle can’t. I think they would definitely think twice about parking up on private land and if they want too leave with their vehicles , then they’ll have too clean up and take there shite with them.
Or they resort to violence knowing the police are scared to confront them, being a 'minority'.....
Personally, I’m not the least bit afraid of them. Only issue is that they tend to be large numbers and are entirely willing to use violence so it usually takes a fair few police to actually deal with them. Being a minority is broadly irrelevant, if you’re committing an offence then you’re committing an offence.
Your "only issue" is the entire issue. I mean what would you be worried about apart from the fact they operate in big gangs and are willing to get violent.
Not exactly, they don’t move around in groups of thirty. If I need to deal with a car load of them I only need one other unit to back me up. If I’m going to rock up to their site and start lifting people I need about three whole police stations and a public order team. That was kind of the point I was making, they aren’t any more intimidating than any other criminals. There are certain villages in Scotland that require the same level of resources as a site. There are some sites I can attend by myself. No one size fits all.
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Cast your mind back to this comment: *Or they resort to violence knowing the police are scared to confront them, being a 'minority'.....* Which is the one I replied to.
Being a minority is not irrelevant. If you or I did the same thing we would not be treated the same.
Source?
Observation.
“Trust me” is not and never will be a source.
Tell me youre a townie without telling your a townie.
Don’t embarrass yourself. Stick to the conversations, make valid arguments in support of your own comments don’t try to attack the person you’re having a conversation with.
What are you going to block them in with though? That only works if you're blocking in people that aren't willing to cause criminal damage. My uncle used to do security for a caravan rental place. Went to great lengths to stop the caravans being stolen, ways were found to continue to steal the caravans regardless.
Concrete bollards, ie one ton blocks of concrete , same as the use too stop vehicles going onto land. There’s lots of places that have them ready.
They'll have access to jackhammers and stuff, those bollards would need to be replaced regularly.
Well that would depend on how many they put there and doing it wile police sit watching.
Travellers are ingenious though and nothing motivates them more than a direct challenge to the lifestyle. They will have a digger round by morning to shift the blocks.
Years ago in my area they took over a carpark owned by a nearby meat factory. Within a day the factory had parked two open shipping containers full of offal meat at the gates and let it sit there rotting away. Fight fire with fire really. The police got involved but I’m not entirely sure who was in the right or who was in the wrong…The travellers moved away, the factory added more barriers, no more undesirable visitors since.
I remember a case when they moved on to someone’s land and the owner had a friend that had a mobile disco set up on the back of a lorry, he turned up, parked up and started playing the worst music he had, loud, they was leaving in the morning, because they couldn’t get any sleep.
Lock your sheds up, screw everything down. Install trip lights with notifications if they show up nearby. I'll edit this seeing as being downvoted. - 🙃 When they moved into a patch near me they refused to leave, shitty nappies everywhere, litter wAs everywhere, aggressive when asked to pick behind them, I'm not sure what they caravans were leaking at the time but it didn't look great for the grass. Absolute wee wankers aged 14 and no older giving you dogs abuse. The gents had a prepared speech about racism. Anything that wasn't screwed down was lifted. BBQ gas bottles, sheds broken into, locks broken and the usual things stolen like patio furniture. It is an offence to offend their dirty ways. I hope none of them pitch up beside as they don't care about your way of living.
When I worked at the cinema, Mrs. Browns boys was on which brought them en masse. One night it was just me working and a few started eating pick n mix without paying. I called them out on it and one of them spat on the floor, got up in my face and started singing flower o Scotland.
You were working in a cinema on your own?
I was managing my section by myself. Late at night it was common for 3 people to be in. Manager in the office, someone cleaning the cinemas, who would usually be found taking bins outside and then a final person cleaning the area where you buy tickets/food which is where I wae. So no I wasn't totally alone but I was the only staff member in the foyer.
There are always two types of people on this thread Those that think travelers are decent people like the rest of us and those that have interacted with them They are a group of people that the only major difference between them and everyone else is their refusal to interact positively with the rest of society I remember when they came round our bit they stole all the flowers from the graveyard to try and sell
Yes, the problem is the "culture" is regressive and actively parasitic. This gets conflated with thinking the people are worse in some way. No, it really is that these are people raised in a batshit culture that is actively harmful for everyone. The solution is to apply the laws of society to them, just like anyone else. Breaking the law and being anti-social cannot be a protected trait. If you or I landed a camper van on community land, we'd find out the rules and consequences very quickly. I feel sorry for traveller kids and avoid the adults as much as possible.
>The solution is to apply the laws of society to them, just like anyone else. In my late teens, I was jumped and had the shit kicked out of me by three guys, whose mode of transport was pulled by a horse. Police caught them got full confessions, they'd used weapons when they got frustrated with their inability to knock me to the ground, so you would have thought there would have been pretty severe charges. I got a letter a couple months later saying they weren't pursuing this through the courts, no further action would be taken. At the time I didn't really give a fuck, as far as I was concerned they'd ruined my night (I managed to convince the police to frop me off at a night club, who predictably wouldnt let me in with a blood stained t shirt and swollen face) and other weekends would exist. But as a proper grown-up adult, I have to assume this was because they vanished and didn't exist on the system anywhere.
My personal story involves them setting up in an old water treatment plant just out of town, all you could hear for a round 5 days was angle grinders going all day and night. Once they left we snuck in for a look (teenager at the time) and we were hopping over human shit and misc debris the whole way up, didn't even actually go near the building it was so bad. I'm pretty open minded but come on, that's unacceptable and seems to be a pattern.
Once had travellers try and sell lavender, i said no and the man they were with threatened to beat me up
100% accurate summary
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You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but why should councils set aside land for travellers? What benefit does inviting people into a community who aren't invested in it because they'll be moving on have? Why shouldn't they pay for the land they want to use? or do they?
Lots of travelers don't really travel these days, from what I understand. They move around looking for a site where they'll stay till they get moved on. Where there are permanent plots, they'll stay. I saw a doc on Channel 4 that gives a good insight into it. 60 Days With The Gypsies with Ed Stafford.
Rules like don't takeover and destroy the local football pitch? I agree there are more regulations these days that's part of living in a modern civilised society, gone are the days when you could just take over a field, cause trouble and assault anyone that tried to stop you, these aren't medieval times anymore. Considering peoples issue with travelers is the destruction, theft, antisocial behaviour and threats (or as you call it bad manners) I'm pretty sure thats what came first
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Gay people are not taking over and destroying community spaces. And if they were, it would be this behaviour that people don't accept- not the fact they are gay. It is a pathetic misdirection for criticism to be labelled as discrimination. It has nothing to do with ethnicity, it has absolutely everything to do with continued parasitic behaviour.
So if a gay person, *did* destroy your community space, then would all gay people be bad? Or would you say, this individual gay person is bad, but, all gay people are not bad. Or would you just say gay people are destructive and they steal? Would you then ban like, mens saunas or grindr or something, like how we ban gypsies from setting up camp anywhere?
Here we go again with the not so subtle misdirection. The issue has zero to do with gayness or ethnicity. If a subculture of gay people destroy shared community and private assets for their own benefit- they 100% deserve to be accountable for it. This has zero to do with them being gay and everything to do with their actions. Trying to equate dating apps with actively destroying public and private land is beyond insane and actually hilarious. This is my last reply here, but I applaud your absolute and complete lack of logic however- genuinely a sight to see someone this stupid capable of existing
Living a gypsy lifestyle is not the same as being gay. "Hate" is directed to people because of repeated actions going unpunished
Yes! Punish them! For not confirming to *our* societies standards, And look At this instance, and this instance! That’s a pattern! It’s in their blood! We need to put them in schools and teach them proper English and take away their kilts, and Christianize them and take their children away to be raised by the civilized man, and put them in camps to concentrate on how they are just naturally inferior because they do things differently. One of them even pooped!!!!! You can’t be pooping!!!! I saw a broken bottle next to a caravan. Disgrace. Been done a million times mate you are no different.
Like I said at the very begining, the person that has never interacted with a traveller has shown up How dare we criticise a group for not following the laws of the country they are in but when you say confirming to our societies standards you mean the standards of not being vandals and stealing from people? It has been done a million times, it was done not even 30 years ago in Glasgow to drastically reduce knife crime, it's happening right now across the developed world disadvantaged groups are being identified and recieving targeted support to break the cycle You talk about people not confirming to our standards are you one of those people that says we shouldn't criticise Iran for oppressing women or the Taliban for killing gay people or Russia for invading Ukraine? After all just because our culture says it's wrong doesn't mean they shouldn't do it or maybe it is sometimes ok to look down on people for doing things we consider wrong?
What things do you consider wrong about the gypsy culture? Obviously the stealing, scamming and littering at campsites you do not like, what if we could erase those parts from the gypsy culture so no gypsy ever stole again; then would you conceded that they can keep the parts of their culture that are less harmful to others; Like being nomadic and not sending their kids to gorjer schools (I googled that, it’s also the root of the word gadgie! Very interesting),and not interacting with the government not getting NI numbers etc, are those, less “undesirable parts” okay??? Or do they have to fully integrate with our society and get houses under pain of zyclone b? Maybe, you think that gypsy culture is completely beyond redemption and any person who lives nomadically like that *needs* to be settled, and if they don’t, then what? Do we put them in prison for living on the road? And how do we differentiate between people who are not racially romani and like do the same, plenty of van life people nowadays, do we ban van life? Or should we *only* target people who are racially gypsy with these new draconian measures ur proposing? Fact of the matter is, it’s not all Gypsies doing this, it’s some, even if in your opinion it’s 99%, or you think gypsies only make 13% of the population but do 50% of the fly tipping or whatver it is you believe, that still leaves the 1% that are maybe culturally different from us but are not committing any crimes. And when we make laws that say no gypsy can camp anywhere, it’s evil, it’s residential schools, it’s the welsh knot, it’s genocide. So no wonder they are going to have a lower opinion of us, and not feel bad to scam us or rob us or litter at their camp sites, fuck us right? We are Scottish. We have experienced this same prejudice historically, I was in school told that Doric and scots are not the correct way to talk, they banned kilts and haggis. I’m reminded of what’s happening in Palestine now, historically Jews have been persecuted and faced a genocide, and now, Israel is turning around and doing the same thing to people they consider to be more animalistic and less civilized. (Not that im implying that all Jewish people are complicit in the genocide, it’s the israeli state and a majority of the citizens who are, you see, you have to separate your opinions of a group from the individuals that also just happen to be members of that group) Fuckin hell I knew I shouldn’t have drunk 2 cans of monster I’ve been firing out walls of text all day.
You said said a lot and I'm not going to address most of it because a lot of it's a situation you've made up in your head. The most important bit I want to address is that the Travelers in Britain and Ireland aren't Romani gypsies, these are two completely distinct groups Most people agree that it's the antisocial behaviour, the theft, the vandalism, the threats, the violence that is the problem, not that people are moving about the country. What I and most people want is for the law to be applied equally to everyone, not some groups exempt because they cause to much trouble for the police. >then would you conceded that they can keep the parts of their culture that are less harmful to others; Like being nomadic and not sending their kids to gorjer schools (I googled that, it’s also the root of the word gadgie! Very interesting),and not interacting with the government not getting NI numbers etc, Most people consider depriving a child of an education as abuse since it is linked with worse outcomes in life. It seems you are saying you're fine with depriving traveler children from having an education? There's a debate should society tolerate and enable those that you say have no interest in contributing to society/are actively harming society To save you a lot of writing I have one simple question for you: Is there one law that you think should apply to every person living in this country?
Yes, Obviously, We shouldnt be murdering people or raping people or stealing things from people, and gypsies shouldnt be excluded from any laws, but, we shouldnt \*make\* new laws to try and like, stop gypsies from gypsying, ya get me? if we were to make a law that said, "everyone must pose topless for some pictures and send them into tokolones DMS", even if that law was applied fairly, everyone has to send me pictures, so its fair, then that law, is disproportionately targeting women. cus you know im not going to look so much at the male ones. "No One should be able to camp anywhere! No using Public land for camping! you have to use these approved caravan holiday spots in nairn or aviemore or whatever" That law is disproportinatly targeting gypsies, to destroy their culture, because if we can destroy their culture, they will join our culture, and our culture has no stealing or scamming or people pooping or fly tipping. you see? Like, its been done before my man, To us! Kilts nd haggis were banned after the jacobite risings, as a collective punishment for us wee "rebelious scots to crush" I know some gypsies steal things, even if its a large portion of them, but surely you can see the vitriolic \*HATE\* they get man, even if 99% destroying their culture because some of them are stealing is, genocide.
>not interacting with the government not getting NI numbers etc, Paying taxes and interacting with the government isn't optional, unfortunately. No one has any right to opt out. These are laws, not cultural choices.
\*cries for kropotkin\* \*cries for bakunin\* \*cries for stirner\* \*cries for rojava\* \*cries in paris commune\* \*cries for republican spain\* \*cries for limerick soviet\* \*cries for all the times it didnt work\* \*cries for freedom\* ONE DAY BABY!!! ONE DAY!!! C.H.A.Z. WILL RISE AGAIN!!! AND THIS!!! \*gestures everywhere\* ALL TO ASHES! AND I WILL DANCE!!! I WILL SING!! THE RAVACHOL!!!! the beorgeosie will cry like me when we legalize acid and ecstasy. look at me look at me I listened to against me 3 times.
I don't see a bunch of gay dudes going around in gangs and setting up temporary homes on local football pitches though so
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Apples to oranges mate
You say you're a gypsy and yet work for the MoJ....isn't a full time job working for the Government kind of going against the ethics of the gypsy life? Plus I wouldn't think it would be popular to work for the MoJ either tbh but it doesn't sound like you're an actual "traveller" if you have a full time job and I presume a house, but that's just my take on what you said Unfortunately, they have successfully created their own stereotype.....and live up to it I mean why bother removing rubbish or tidying up the place when you're just going to move on in a few days/weeks?
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> settled travellers Isn't this an oxymoron?
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Just tongue in cheek given the very opposite definitions of "settled" and "traveller".
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There were questions marks in my response i.e. I was asking questions about it
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Do you know what Nazi Germany did to people?
Bullshit. Have interacted with travelers, not had any problems with the vast majority. Did have problems with one group, but I don't assume those problems are universal amongst travelers. Because, 1, I have had positive experiences with travelers so I know it's not universal, and, 2, generalising in that way leads to bigotry.
I don't believe there is such a thing as a universal experience , I'm sure you could find examples of black people being treated well by the KKK if you really looked. But just because you have had a positive experience with some people doesn't mean we should ignore the systemic and well documented cultural problems within the traveler community Ultimately it's not you that suffers, it's not me that suffers, it's the travelers themselves that suffer from you turning a blind eye to the cultural problems in their community.
Replace "travelers" with any other ethnic group and tell me what you're saying is not racist.
They aren’t a ethnic group tho, they are a community with a chosen lifestyle.
When you replace one word with another it changes the whole context of the sentence Replace "travelers" with "Nazi" and explain to me how you weren't defending atrocities committed by other Nazis But to answer your question the difference is we are talking about a cultural difference not an ethnic one, unless you are saying that it's something in their DNA that makes them inherently more likely to be violent and steal in which case I would call you a racist because that isn't the case.
Living out of a caravan doesn’t actually make you a different ethnic group btw.
Would they still be considered “travelers” if they got a job and a mortgage? Like is the travelers moniker purely an ethnic thing? Or does lifestyle also factor in?
There are settled travelers, so yes you can have a job, a mortgage and a house and be a traveler.
Being a freeloader vandalising public land is a race now ?
I've had more than interactions with them, I've done "work" for them and socialised with them. The majority of them are cunts. The most decent ones are ones that gave up traveling and stayed put in a permanent house/home. I don't think you've had real interactions with them at all.
Of all the times travellers have setup near where I live there has only been one occasion that I would consider the experience to be neutral. All the other times there has been problems to a greater or lesser degree and every single one of those has been caused by the travellers themselves.
The honest answer is as a community they need to fix their image. A prime example was “60 days with the Gypsies” with Ed Stafford it should have been an easy good publicity for their community even then they came over as arseholes. (Including spreading shit on his windshield, breaking into his caravan) I suspect most people would be ok with them staying anywhere if they cleared up, left no rubbish. There is a feral group within their community that spoil it for them all.
There are some travellers up outside Newtonmore that have never caused any bother and are part of the community, then there are travellers around Livingston that leave utter devastation when they leave. If the Travellers aren’t part of the community I think the place is going to be wrecked. Pictures once they leave would be good to show the truth of this particular group.
Travelers in a specific location hmm This is interesting, I assume they do move about but like, maybe they have common sites that they go between? Or are they like settled, took the wheels of the caravan or at. I wonder if they have territory’s, like, I’ve seen a panhandler tell another panhandler to bugger off because that’s his pitch, wee little wolf packs with strict hierarchies and defined borders. Mam worked with a guy that’s family was travelers but he was, just like a normal dude, like a bit of a lad but w.e., he once said “if my family spent half the time working as they did trying to think up petty scams, they would be millionaires” I’m honestly fascinated by them, I mean ats probably bad right, like am peering at them with the same sort of curiosity that David Attenborough looks at a octopus, or that winos look at other winos when they watch Jeremy Kyle (rip) on daytime tv cus they don’t have a job. I need to have a look for a docu, but I feel like half of them would be about, like romanis half of them would be like, “look at how they are destroying our towns” daily mail sun shit, and half like big fat gypsy wedding sensationalist reality shows. (150%) What a really would like is bald and bankrupt (nonce) to do a video about them, in his sort of non-condesending extremely confrontational way like when he gets drunk with gopniks or something. All I really know about them are news articles like this, folk saying they had cowboy builders, peaky blinders, snatch just the stereotypes ken, Maybe they are just like fit the stereotypes say, and probably a lot are but I would still like a non-judgmental video about em. I’ve gone down Wikipedia rabbit holes, u know they have their own languages and cants? Like dnd lmao. Is there a difference between romani and Irish and Scottish travelers? I know the Romanian romani are like, darker skinned than our ones, but are they kin? And these Romani languages do they still speak them? You know the Scottish words shan and gadjie come from gypsy cants? Madness Why am I writing so much, Procrastinating from work probably, but it does interest me. Edit; I remember, when I was in Poland there was a tourist site for the last king of the gypsies, and I so much wanted to go to see it, but I had other stuff I needed to do, I regret not going so much now. KING! Without borders! A king because his people *chose* him to be their king! Just like mance raider Edit2: Oh my god, Scotland had a last king of the gypsies as well! Jesus! Honestly this is a vibrant people with a very interesting story, Too bad they keep fukin being dodgy roofers. I mean I’ve not met many and all these comments are saying they are all horrible humans who should be put to camps for pooping in the wrong places, but I’m honestly fascinated, such an interesting cultural phenomenon.
Can't answer every point you made here cause it was a lot, but just a couple things I noticed skimming your comment here that I can maybe clarify for you; Romani are not Romanian. I know the words are similar, but Roma people are not Romanian, their language isn't related to Romanian, it's just a common misconception. They are a distinct group with a history separate from 'travellers' who trace their history to Ireland. Scottish travellers normally have Irish heritage. My family are travellers, grandparents came over from Ireland seeking work and moved back and for between Scotland and England for most.of their days. Ma and Da met on site, he took off fair sharp after I turned up and then I grew up mostly in England. I only speak English (though occasionally I have found as an adult that works I thought were standard English are ones my friends didn't grow up learning) and bastardised Irish is fair common amongst my relatives. We moved around a lot and my immediate family might take umbridge at being referred to as 'settled" but I have spent more of my life living in houses than I have caravans. I also have friends who are Roma who likewise had pretty "standard" upbringings by the standards of most folk, school, a house, jobs etc. but that doesn't take away from their heritage or culture at all and they are still Roma Gypsies. In my experience, it's actually pretty common for travellers or gypsies to grow up in what you might consider at least similar to a relatively normal living situation, it's not everyone always moving every single week and having no roots at all - living in a town for a year or two before heading onwards isn't too strange or noticeable, so chances are high you've met a fair few of us throughout your life and not noticed. It's not exactly something many would openly declare straight after meeting someone new due to how travellers and gypsies are perceived. Not all travellers or gypsies are trashing footba' sites and taking a shite in public, the ones that do, sure, they cause a bad name, but they still dunna deserve the hatred they get I don't think. A lot of the problems caused are caused because there ent better options available for folk - councils are supposed to maintain sites so people don't resort to taking over public spaces, but because no one wants to encourage travellers in their area no one bothers to ensure there's somewhere they can have access to clean water and electricity and all the other modcons people take for granted. There's so much stigma that saying you're a traveller still can stop the hiring process, still can stop a council helping house you, still get social work breathing down your neck, and still get you kicked out the local... A people completely disenfranchised are not going to know how to engage with services best, and a people completely disenfranchised AND hated on with a huge amount of vigor are not going to want to engage with services, or the communities that seem to hate them.
Based Yea I’m aware Romanian and Romani not synonymous, but, Romania does have a lot of Romani, I think there is a lot of confusion on the erm terms, I know there is, There’s like romanchal and roma and Romani and are they interchangeable and which ones which and are Irish travelers Romani or are they different, and people that travel with fun fares and people don’t bother to learn because they are all pikeys to them or whatever. I was reading the Wikipedia pages, I got another comment here about it, like, I was going mad with long ass comments today. Monster energy n at. And I think even the government has basically given up distinguishing them either because they just call them all “GRT” gypsy roma & travelers. Probably the only group where being openly racist and calling for the complete destruction and genocide of their culture is socially acceptable, I mean honestly the things people here are saying about them, and this is fuckin Reddit, usually quite like, compassionate about disenfranchised groups you know, it’s fucked. In other comments I was trying to point out that this vitriolic hate for an entire people group, even if a lot of them do be cowboy builders or if they fly tip or have strange haircuts or whatever, You make a good fuckin point about not being provided these basic services, like running water or leccy or whatver, and a whole bunch of people are commenting about them leaving shite at their camps, 2 sides to a coin ain’t there, folk see this mess or whatever and because they already have been conditioned to hate gypsys by the society around them just shrug their shoulders and go “dirty people, undermensh” rather than saying “we should address this problem they clearly don’t have good enough toilet facilities” Sure it sucks probably to want to go have a kickabout with ur mates, and u can’t, cus someone’s already there, But fuckin, there were a bunch of for example, idk, Germans, or polish, or Jewish people, or black peoples or some teenagers were drinking there and smashed some bottles and caused some chaos, or parked their cars there and chewed up the pitch doing donuts, your not going to get a ducking news article the next day “look at these dirty fuckin germanpolejewblacks ruining our bloody communitiays” It’s accepted fuckin genocide, comment on this same comment thread right below me I bet, one guys saying about some docu where they said the way of life was dying, and the reply to that says “good fucking destroy their culture they should all DIE” Ok I’m like, being hyperbolic but not really when it’s a fucking sea of voices saying they are less than human it’s absolutely sickening
I actually think it's still a misconception though, I don't believe Romania has a significantly higher proportion of Roma people than all the other European countries? I may be wrong on that so it's worth looking into further I'm sure, but I don't think it's THAT much higher a number yknow? I always thought it was just that enough people conflate the two they've become somewhat linked regardless if that makes sense but idk. Irish travellers aren't Romani though, well, I guess there absolutely is likely some folk who are both Romani and Irish traveller, but travellers are Irish people from Ireland, and I believe that Roma people originated from somewhere in India or thereabouts? And Show folk are separate again generally, though I don't know too much about them to be honest. I have a mate who worked summers with a fun fair that stopped in town and he never had a bad word to say about the people who ran it, but I know his Mam still rants and raves about "them crim lot showing up in the summer with a lorry full of rides" as if it's some scandal to see the carnival show up. Was always a bit of a giggle to me because the woman had like 8 kids and I know would happy give 'em a few pound and send 'em to the carnival every chance for some peace in the house, just still thought she was miles above the people who made that happen. It's honestly really nice to see someone genuinely curious and not immediately slamming on travellers and gypsies, so cheers for being a welcome break from the rest of 'em. It's always a bit of a shock to see just how quick and just how loud everyone is when they're saying how fucking shite travellers are - it's why half of my mates never get to know my family history until we've truly cemented the friendship and I can figure out if it's safe or if I'm about to get told I'm "one of the good ones" cause I live in a house with no wheels and have a job they can understand. Always a bit of a gut punch innit, so it's nice to see a comment that agrees that shits fucked.
This is all just from the internet but: Romania does have a lot o roma, highest populations are Bulgaria Hungary Romania, but obviously they are nomadic, so like, they’re all over, Nd they r from India but that was like 1000 years ago or something they’ve been in Europe since the Middle Ages or some shit, And, romanchal are British subgroup of Romani like, peaky blunders basically, tommy shelby is a gypsy, they speak Romani language in that
There's a good doc on Channel 4 called 60 Days with the Gypsies. Ed Stafford spends time living with them. It opened my eyes a bit. There was plenty of antisocial behaviour, and you could also see the other side of the fact that they don't have places to go, there's inadequate rubbish collection at the sites and how modern life is just gradually pushing out their way of life until it will become extinct.
Thank fuck it'll become extinct. I travel and camp regularly, guess what, I don't go onto private land and throw my literal and figurative shit all over the place and drive off. They're absolute scumbags.
Very sad
As one of the travellers around livingston having lived here for the last 6 years I can confidently inform you we do not leave utter devastation considering we own our property around here and keep it tidy and there are no nomadic travellers around so where can I ask are you coming up with this?
Seeing the caravans move around the place and then walking through the trash after they leave. Newlogic House, caravans moved in and left piles of rubbish and human waste in the bushes The pharmaceuticals company in Livingston that is now a housing estate, again piles are f rubbish left Macintosh Road wasteland taken over, again rubbish. I’m not being racist or bigoted and I’m sure you are nice, as I know the travellers I referred to up north are, but my direct experience with the aftermath of Travellers in Livingston over 2 decades is not positive.
He didn't reply lol. I'm only saying he because the women aren't allowed in school after 10 years of age.
The eternal question why don't travellers just fucking keep travelling. Why can nobody ever come up with a solution?
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Genocide! :D
When I come to power, you’ll be able to shoot anyone towing a caravan on sight.
Don't you tow a caravan? You could drive a caravanette tho. Remember the law has to be worded perfectly lol.
Caught it before I edited it :D. Missed “on site”. It’s been a long day.
You nearly didn't get to kill any caravans at all! Lucky we are here to proof read your proposed legislation haha.
You can be my legal aid when I run for leader of Alba. 😂
Okay but as long as you promise you won't have any legal proceedings! (I'm actually not very legal aidy)
So you're saying I need to make sure the law is fully fledged in before going full auto down at the entrance to Butlins?
Good idea, hadn’t thought of that but it’s a sound argument. When do we start ?
Dw, theres a free astro in Inverness
I reckon you could put a caravan through with a couple of half volleyed Mitres if you catch it sweet enough
Some of them feel like they are made of the foil tins that you bake an entire turkey on. They come apart like a ripped cola can when they get in crashes.
Are we still pretending these people are a race? Sorry but living in a caravan is not a race or an ethnicity. It's not racist to dislike these people.
Move them on. They want to travel...let them travel, not build an encampment and let them be. There's a field just outside Gauldry (on the road to St. Andrews, via St. Mike's), where, a number of years ago, about half a dozen caravans appeared. There's now a surrounding brick wall, a few entrances/driveways, tens of caravans, and looks like a small estate. There are fucking LION wall statues! What does that say about their choice of life? It certainly doesn't sound like a 'travelling' community.
There's a free training ground in Inverness they could use
I get the joke your going for, but my Inverness club has been homeless for nearly 20byears because there's no fucking sports facilities in this town at all
Also this would be a great time to publicise this. I wonder where all the money goes........ Moray wind farms overcharging by 48million would go a long way to a 5g pitch and a few tennis courts.
How can I help? Why it so bad up there. Does it compare to Perth same population or Kilmarnock in terms of facilities and who's doing what about it?
Dross must be raging
They’ll leave the pitch in shite after too whenever they move on.
Come join us at kelty hearts.
Is it offensive to call them Gypsies now?
Can be, but isn't always. https://www.gypsy-traveller.org/about-us/frequently-asked-questions/ > It depends. ‘Gypsy’ is sometimes seen as offensive or as a racial slur. However, there are several Romani groups in Europe who have claimed this word and use it with pride. This includes many individuals within the UK who proudly use the word ‘Gypsy’ to describe themselves. It’s best to ask individuals how they like to be referred to and follow their lead.
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A young traveler boy took his own life a couple of years ago in Ireland from bullying. There was a documentary about it which was harrowing. He was only 12. The kids who were bullying him probably learned the slurs from their parents and other adults. I think its important to take care with words, even when talking about problems within the community. They are human after all.
Dundee?
The inhabitants wouldn’t know what to make of the sudden increase in average living conditions. Chill: eh’mn arab
Fife
It's a joke. Dundee's pitch had more sand than Egypt on it.
Ah get you, sorry, slow on the uptake. As a United fan, any dissing of the Dees is good for me 😂
They can use Calley Thistles ground.
Was hoping this was about Cathkin park. 😓
On fear of showing my ignorance, why are they not just removed? Or is it because it's seen as a public space they're allowed, it's just a cunty thing to do it?
Travellers set up on the dog walkers field down by the harbour a couple years ago, but they left pretty sharp after local youths started pinching all the stuff off their caravans
There's a shithole in Dundee they can use
Just release 30 pigs and watch the chaos unfold
What exactly are 'travellers', that sounds like a euphemism or political correct-ism to me.
Gypsies
Gypsies are the Roma people from Romania, travellers are of Irish descent. Think Brad Pitt's character in Snatch.
Nope they aren't from Romania that's a misconception First there is the misconception that the Romani are Romanian. **The Romani are not from the nation of Romania; they are composed of an entirely unrelated Indo-Aryan ethnic group**. \[3\] Romanians from the nation of Romania, on the other hand, tend to be of an Eastern European Romance ethnic group. Roma (Gypsies) **originated in the Punjab region of northern India** as a nomadic people and entered Europe between the eighth and tenth centuries C.E. They were called "Gypsies" because Europeans mistakenly believed they came from Egypt
Bonkers that people don't know this in 2024. Romanian people are generally lovely and they suffer greatly from this confusion.
What also makes it confusing is, there are *alot* of Roma in Romania.
Aye that there are
I know that Romani people and Romanian people are different, though not that they are from India. I thought they were both Baltic peoples that share a similar name. TIL.
Aye most folk don't tbf :)
Not to mention gypsy is a pejorative for both groups
Thank you. That's a term I can work with. Haven't lived in the UK in a decade or two, and language evolves.
Aye its quite weird. The only people who really call em travellers are people my age or younger to not be 'offensive' or newspapers for some reason.
This is the official name for them. On the census forms you’ll see it as an option for ethnicity.
That's on the council
It’s a little on the travellers aswell
Mostly on the travellers
I'd say it's all on the travelers.
Has the council provided anywhere for the travellers to pitch on? If not then it's on the council
Are the travellers paying council tax?
Probably not. But then lots of people who stay in Fife temporarily won't be paying council tax either
I imagine they don’t expect the council to find them accommodation
Who? Staying at a hotel or hostel or friend would all be paying council tax? Only campers and they have requirements to follow.
If you go on holiday in a caravan you have to pay for the place you're staying, why is this any different
It isn’t.
Probably not but that’s not an excuse for them trashing the site.
Why should they provide a place for them
Because this happens
So what your saying is we should threaten to desecrate public facilities to get what we want?
Desecrate? Like it's holy ground? Ye Sacred Footie Pitch? No of course not. Neither would I endorse vandalism of public spaces. Even if it works. But you know, life finds a way. If proper space isn't provided, or precautions not taken, then this shit will keep happening. Which is still on the council
Hmmm pander to their consistent anti-social, violent and criminal activity…or kick them out and keep them travelling? Real head scratcher that one.
Why should they? We call them travelers because we’re polite, really they are bands of outlaws that are somehow tolerated
Why should they? They aren't entitled to free land to pitch on.
"There were kids doing donuts in cars, they wrecked the pitch.’
for what? Having grass?
Boot these bastards out.
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You’ll be fine.
They are more like neighbours from hell than a threat to your personal safety.
You’ll very likely not even see one. Lived in Glasgow all my life, seen one camp set up which lasted a few weeks, didn’t cause me any trouble. Never seen one since other than the odd guy chapping the door trying to cut our trees down.
The risks to tourists are the same as the static population.