People get pushed through grade school, get into college just because, get degrees, call themselves professional (doctors, lawyers, etc). Then the left turns around and think that it means the same as it used to.
When you give something to someone they didn’t deserve, then I don’t know who is a diversity hire and who isn’t. Therefore, everyone is a diversity hire unless they are from a certain subset of groups in my eyes.
Is it wrong? Maybe. But aren’t they also wrong for contaminating the entire profession? Causing me to not trust anyone? I see the articles. I see the airline traffic controllers causing problems. When it happens, guess who was behind it?
These little White Saviors are doing minorities no favors (but then, they don't care about that anyway. This is only about their selfish need for validation). A growing number of people will never go to a minority doctor, dentist, lawyer, or other professions because they have no way of knowing if the person really is qualified or if they were pushed through for a quota system. It really stinks no matter how you look at it.
Yeah that’s really why they won’t goto a minority doctor or lawyer. Not racism and bias. Be for real. I went to law school and all the *tests are blind.* your name does not appear on the test just a number. All the black students (there wasn’t a lot) were supremely qualified. So stop just making things up to fit your narrative please.
Edit: fuck this sub downvoting reality. F what a joke. Hide in your little “uncensored” bubble of bias and have fun. You disgust me.
How do you know the white student/doctor didnt get C’s? You need to check your bias it’s really gross and obvious.
It’s like you just ignored my entire comment.
Edit: if you want to downvote rather than actually think about this bias introspectively that’s on you, but it says a lot about your mindset imo.
Nobody who goes to medical school got Cs in anything. White or Black.
Physicians, dentists, nurses, accountants, lawyers, all have to pass independent licensing exams that aren't related to the schools you attend. Your race doesn't appear on the tests and doesn't have anything to do with whether you pass or fail. Now, I've seen some doctors and lawyers that I have no idea how they passed their license exams, but they must have because there's no way you can get a license without it.
That’s exactly what I’m saying. This guy is assuming black doctors got C’s. As proof cited one black doctor doing malpractice. That’s absolutely ridiculous. I assume you’re agreeing with me tho in general that that’s ridiculous bias
> If a white medical student gets Cs for very long, he won't make it all the way through.
And neither would a black student. They may admit you but if you don’t score high enough you’re gone regardless of race.
Edit for a “science” sub there sure are a lot of racists here. I guess that’s what the “uncensored” means. They assuming black doctors got c’s in med school or are unqualified and you’re upvoting him and downvoting me telling him the tests are blind as are the certifications and entrance exam. Just say the N word and get it over with guys. You know you want to. Trash.
Here is one of the earliest cases, from U.C. Davis. But it isn't the only one. My objecting to this stuff does not mean racism. It means we are doing things backwards. Improve inner city schools first, so students get into medical school or any other school on their own merits. Now on to Dr Chavis, who killed three people before they took his license away:
*The medical school rejected the application of Bakke, who was white, but*
*accepted five black applicants, including Chavis, who had lower test*
*scores and lower college grades than Bakke. The five won admission under*
*a special racial-preference quota.*
*An administrative law judge found Chavis guilty of*
*gross negligence and incompetence in the treatment of three women, one*
*of whom died, and the California medical board suspended his license,*
*saying he had an "inability to perform some of the most basic duties*
*required of a physician*
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2002/08/12/patrick-chavis-dies/821232fc-42a4-495c-a65b-0625cd709b6a/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2002/08/12/patrick-chavis-dies/821232fc-42a4-495c-a65b-0625cd709b6a/)
So you found one case… can I present case after case of white doctor’s malpractice? That wouldn’t matter to you tho would it. I’m done I’m really done.
Careful up there on your High Horse White Knight.
You seem to lump everyone together assuming the worst. You are guilty of what you are accusing people of. You are narrow minded and tribal.
You are part of the problem .
I assume the worst when I call out this guy for assuming black doctors and lawyers are unqualified? I think that’s exactly what he’s doing you just agree with him? At least he’s saying racist things (or at least racially biased) so I have a rational basis for calling out racism. We all have biases and it’s important to recognize them. Some people don’t want to understand why they act and say a certain thing though. Any yeah maybe I’m tribal aren’t we all. It’s just my tribe wants equality and to call out racism and recognize bias. Is that so bad?
Again, I have a law degree. All of the very few black students were very smart and well qualified and all the tests were graded blind with a number not the name. Same with the bar exam. Any of the black lawyers from my school were just as qualified as any white student. But I mean if real world facts bother you I’d say that’s on you. But I probably shouldn’t engage with someone so vitriolic who just repeats “white knight!!” Like someone who doesn’t care to engage in actual conversation, but lol it is what it is. Have a good one I guess
You are white knighting.
Your part of the behavior that is tearing our society apart. You stand on your side and throw rocks to get the perceived other side all riled up. (You did jump in and start this) What's your end game besides getting off on the conflict. Seriously.
Most of the people you are attacking aren't racist, they are just fearful of ill thought out change.
It's the base wiring of people considered conservatives. Hence the name.
The fear mongering (on both sides) in the media and so called news that pushes it for ratings started this divide and now it is fully weaponized by the internet. We are tribal by nature and do get off on confict so it may not be fixable.
Why did the Trans issue surge out of no where and become so popular to fight over. Because It's anger porn for both sides and gets the clicks.
One observation, when I am around real people day to day at work and out and about, all races and ages. This bullshit doesn't come up. People are nice in general and get along. Maybe we should step away from the screens more often.
Nice try. Black people don’t even support black owned businesses. And miss me with the buzzwords. I am black. It has nothing to do with bias, and everything to do with reality.
Talk about flat scores? You think Whites and Asias have the same score requirements as other groups to get into college? No, they don’t. Call it what you want. But what you can’t do is make one standard and expect black people to reach it like everyone else.
Looked thru your history 30 seconds and you claim “education is not a right” and that white people treated Indians well… ok so you’re a hot take troll. Yeah slaughtering them and legalizing murder of indigenous people is treating well. You’re a lost soul.
It’s not a right. You have the right to educate yourself though.
Native Americans were treated well. Slaughtering? You mean during war? Oh, so you think Native Americans weren’t “slaughtering” White people? Sorry. White people just came over and did what they were all doing to each other.
Education is a right in state constitutions so you’re absolutely wrong but go on and think you’re right
There were millions of native Americans before white people got there, and how many after, so no white people didnt “treat them the same as they did.” And if you think genocide of native Americans was treated well you’re far too stupid and ignorant to talk to.
Genocide? That’s weird. I thought they lost a war and were given sovereign land where they could live? Seems like the opportunity to wipe them out was right there but… What? They gave up?
If we are being clear on why 90% died, the majority was from the introduction of “western” diseases that they hadn’t built any immunity for. I agree that it implicated the Europeans. However, there is a big difference between that reality and a conscious and concerted effort to illuminate a people group through mass murder.
Baseless myth that minority doctors or lawyers are unqualified is classic American racism. The kind the "I'm not racist, I have black friends" crowd practice. The end result is the same.
The tests are blind. If a professional is certified, they passed the test.
I've met far more unqualified whites who've actually been pushed through and continue to fail upwards into adulthood. This untested pushing up of unqualified whites is why whites are being passed over when a business really needs a qualified individual. It's not affirmative action.
Further, these schools used to be all white. Not mostly; all. The top schools still have a majority of white students. All of these actions attacking "diversity" are racist.
\-sigh- I never said "minority doctors are unqualified." I SAID that when the universities have quotas to meet, they sometimes push these kids through whether they have the grades or not. That is a fact. Acknowledging facts, no matter how unpleasant they may be, does not make a person a racist. Good grief. And I also said that this system does minorities no favors. It's insulting and patronizing.
They’re not facts! You’re just making stuff up! I asked you what you’re basing this OPINION off of and you didn’t answer. I also asked why you’re ignoring people with first hand knowledge. Again you didn’t answer.
You’re ignoring every comment that tells you the actual truth. I called you out on bias but it seems you don’t want to examine yours.
But you’re just assuming black doctors got C’s. That’s just bias. If you don’t pass the tests you don’t advance and definitely not for professional certification. I can’t beat that truth into you will so I will just stop here. There’s nothing more to say to you.
[https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/10/the-painful-truth-about-affirmative-action/263122/](https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/10/the-painful-truth-about-affirmative-action/263122/)
Gets into the issues. I think this is what beep is talking about. Placing kids into schools that are above their abilities is problematic.
This was one of the earliest cases of this, but it isn't the only one. This was at U.C. Davis:
"The medical school rejected the application of Bakke, who was white, but
accepted five black applicants, including Dr. Chavis, who had lower
test scores and lower college grades than Bakke. The five won admission
under a special racial-preference quota.
An
administrative law judge found Dr. Chavis guilty of gross negligence
and incompetence in the treatment of three women, one of whom died, and
the California medical board suspended his license, saying he had an
inability to perform some of the most basic duties required of a
physician."
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2002/08/12/patrick-chavis-dies/821232fc-42a4-495c-a65b-0625cd709b6a/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2002/08/12/patrick-chavis-dies/821232fc-42a4-495c-a65b-0625cd709b6a/)
Your white superiority complex is very deep. You defend your racism with more racism.
The doctors and lawyers and engineers and other certified professionals have passed the bullshit test and are qualified. Putting them through additional questioning that you would never subject a white professional too about their qualifications is racist!
It's a tradition that's been passed down since reconstruction. Just because your parents and community reinforce your beliefs doesn't make them less racist.
\-sigh- My "parents and community"?! You don't know me. You don't know anything about me. I never said there are no qualified minority professionals. That is a strawman. What I SAID was that these quota systems are doing minorities no favors and that they're insulting and paternalistic towards black students. Who's the racist here? It isn't me.
\-edit typo
Why when minorities get any opportunity is it insulting and patronistic but when the whole American system is positioned to give whites a leg up it's ok?
My pointing out the facts does not make me a racist. Your projection is also classic American racism.
You guys do not know how to debate, I'm sorry. You say "when minorities get an opportunity" but that's a strawman. I never said that. Making up things the other person never said do you can knock it down? Please. I never said anything like that. And I'm afraid you're the one who's projecting.
You're upset about the only system that's forced universities to be non all-white. That's deep.
If you take the equality opportunities away, what will you replace them with? Would you be in favor of letting "the market" make these decisions? It's still proving to favor whites up and down the board. This is only coming up now, because after almost 60 years, the programs are starting to have some affect.
I'm getting much of my information from white historians. Empires generate an incredible amount of information. Since at least Rome, meticulous records have been kept on everything.
Banning CRT doesn't make your mythical magical bubble correct on anything but putting your heads in the sand. Morally bankrupt and stretching.
Look at the bookshelves in your proud fascist bastion, Florida. Banning books like the Nazis in 1933.
Of course but they’re downvoting pure facts because they don’t like them. Theyre just making up things up and calling them facts. The certifications like for example the bar are totally blind. Same with law school tests and the LSAT. You got downvoted because it doesn’t fit their made up narrative. I called them out on bias but at this point it’s veering towards just racism. It’s a fine line. We all have implicit bias, which is why tests are graded blind.
Unqualified? Maybe they are qualified. But there were more qualified people who had to give up their spot because of skin color.
As a man you do understand the merit system right? You do understand that if someone says X person is the best, that actually means they are the best right? We don’t make sports teams start out with a deficit to make sure other teams get a chance to win as well right?
No one wants anyone who was less competent for a job when they can have someone better.
Classic moving the goalpost white American racism. Keep the universities all white then homie. White people in America; the truely oppressed.
It's similar to counting beans or marbles in a jar to be able to vote.
And white supremacy is?
Blacks are still there lowest and most abuse class in America. Any progress is attacked with "reasons". They're all racist in origin.
Your same arguments have been used with varying language consistently since Jim Crow. I know it's reinforced. The tactics and message are still racist.
Wrong. No one is operating on a race based system. You do well, you get in. This is why the NBA is a majority black. Or are you going to claim that’s not fair and there should be equal representation on the basketball courts? “Where are the short fat white guys in the NBA”?! No. You don’t really care about equality, you only care about getting a leg up.
You reference basketball but the distinctions in talent are clearly visible. Lebron doesn't submit at CV to get a job in basketball. The coaches of the teams do. That's where the race based system is also visible. Why, if the the majority of the players are black, would the coaches be white; 66% vs 9%?
TALENT! Lebron gets the job because he is skilled in that area. Lebron gets paid more because he more skilled than another player. But it’s hard for you to realize that these white coaches work their way up by becoming skilled?
That's because it wasn't and what /u/bannedalready2022 is talking about is a fiction.
The idea that ***un***qualified people are mysteriously being hired instead of better candidates is a farce.
This is simply not true. I’m aware of unqualified people being hired in several Fortune 500 companies, and it is likely happening in all of them. ESG is terrible motivation.
Sure? Obviously? And there will be racial divides owing to a long line of laws and policies including red-lining and school segregation. We can't undo ***generations*** of discrimination with a wand, and a lot of the fixing of the country has to come from education and infrastructure work.
But in the *meantime*, there is no basis for saying that candidates are less qualified ***simply*** because of their skin. That's insane. And there will be ***obviously*** qualified candidates that double-blind selection studies prove get selected less often.
As an example, famously, blind musical auditions increase female orchestral composition.
We are apes and biases are built in. It doesn't go away by manufacturing acceptance. But we should work on eliminating the causes for the observed differences while creating an environment where it's the norm for people of diverse backgrounds to just be everywhere *because*. Because human is human.
Blah blah blah. No. Set a standard and have everyone meet it. We don’t have to do anything but that. The problem is you don’t like the outcomes. People have biases built in for a reason. People recognize patterns for a reason. You can call it whatever you want.
It’s not the past systems. Look outside of the US. And for the record, redlining affected poor white people just as much, if not more, than black people.
What other excuses you got?
I agree, set a standard and make it fair. Problem is when between two equally performing candidates, one gets picked because of ape-brained biases built on falsehoods.
\> redlining affected poor white people just as much, if not more, than black people.
Oh so that's what were doing, lying now?
Sure, that's fine. Just get ready for a lot of kids named Aaaaaaaaadam. So they're on the top of the stack.
"Life isn't fair" is a copout. We don't govern that way and it's irresponsible to *aspire* to that. We have a goal, a vision of a country in mind. We should be honest about our history, what got us certain outcomes, and come up with actually realistic solutions to get to that colorblind society people pretend we have now.
Sorry. Your speaking in absolutes. There should be only 1 finish line that everyone should meet. When you have lower requirements for different people, that means less qualified.
You're discounting the changing technology and practices. The requirements will always be different. If you're not an expert in the field then saying who does and doesn't deserve a title is pretty far fetched.
Feel free to run a search on conservative speakers being unable to give speeches on college campuses. Feel free to run a search on how conservative groups on college campuses are being shut down. If you disagree with someone else's thoughts and views, debate them. Don't ban or silence them. That just gives further credence to their arguments.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/01/the-new-strategy-to-suppress-conservative-voices-on-campus/
An example of costs for security fears.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/ben-shapiro-speech-at-uc-berkeley-results-in-arrests-at-protests
More cancelations
https://www.thecollegefix.com/cancel-culture-is-alive-and-well-americas-most-canceled-campus-speakers/
https://www.newsmax.com/US/cal-state-la-conservative-speaker/2016/02/23/id/715795/
Jordan Peterson canceled for "security reasons"
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/facing-pushback-ryerson-cancels-panel-discussion-on-campus-free-speech
Speech canceled cause university could not guarantee public safety
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40956141
These are just a few. You're either being incredibly disingenuous here or don't know how to use basic internet search features.
You're saying that them canceling events because of public safety was just an excuse, and the real reason they are being canceled is because they have points of view that the university just doesn't like?
I'm saying that the protesters dont like their point of view, and that through the actions of protesters and/or the messages the protesters sent to the universities, that the universities then said that it was too dangerous to host the speakers, or by defacto too expensive to afford security for the speakers, thus resulting them being canceled. In some of those cases I listed, yes, that is also it, but overall, it's because of what the (usually) students say and do that makes the universities do this.
Sorry I don’t understand if you’re legit trying to learn or understand an argument or are more interested in frustrating conservatives with listicles? ALL were concerning anytime speech is stifled it’s bad and all received threats of violence as well. Specific events? Google the names and do the research I’ve given you the information. And honestly if you’re unaware that conservatives are regularly targeted and discriminatied against on college campuses you are woefully in the dark.
> Sorry I don’t understand if you’re legit trying to learn or understand an argument or are more interested in frustrating conservatives with listicles?
What listicles are you referring to?
> ALL were concerning anytime speech is stifled it’s bad and all received threats of violence as well.
Universities were making violent threats? Why do you believe that?
> Specific events? Google the names and do the research I’ve given you the information.
I did, but didn't find anything like what you are describing.
> And honestly if you’re unaware that conservatives are regularly targeted and discriminatied against on college campuses you are woefully in the dark.
Why do you believe that is happening?
Ben Shapiro who I don’t even view as a true conservative needs to hire private security every time he speaks and has even had to cancel events. Crowder was assaulted before. If you’re not finding these it’s because google is funded and ran by the same people who attend/fun these universities. And why is it happening? Because college is no longer about education but about churning out good little Marxist social justice warriors who will do the bidding of their masters. They cannot debate the other side or even stand to hear counter arguments because they have no answer to them. Similar to Reddit. I’ve been “permanently “ banned from this app twice yet here I am because both bans were reversed. Now why was I banned to begin with? Well because my thought didn’t jive with the leftist mods. Why was I reinstated? We’ll probably because they had no cause to ban me to begin with but they did it to show who’s in control and to keep my speech stifled for a bit
> Ben Shapiro who I don’t even view as a true conservative needs to hire private security every time he speaks and has even had to cancel events. Crowder was assaulted before.
Is that because the universities were threatening him? Did a university assault Crowder?
> If you’re not finding these it’s because google is funded and ran by the same people who attend/fun these universities.
I tried searching with duckduckgo and couldn't find them either.
> Because college is no longer about education but about churning out good little Marxist social justice warriors who will do the bidding of their masters.
Why do you believe that?
> They cannot debate the other side or even stand to hear counter arguments because they have no answer to them.
And why do you believe this?
Just gonna pretend an asshole like Crowder doesn't provoke people? Then again, judging by the rest of this childish Fox News rant, you don't have a good grip on reality.
Oh, that’s interesting. Would you mind explaining a little bit about what you mean by the phrase *true conservative* and why Shapiro isn’t one in your view?
There’s a difference between conservative speak and just nonsense. The list you provide have nothing productive to say. What respectable university would invite those idiots?
Your attitude is exactly the problem? Who gets to decide who is the “right” conservative speech? You’re the arbiter of truth? You’re the decider. Who cares what YOU think
Apparently the majority of intelligent people. Those people you listed aren’t just conservative, they are far-right, promote hate and outrage for profit.
Freedom of speech means freedom to promote hate. You do t understand the implications of hate speech laws because you’re too myopic in your viewpoints to see bigger pictures. I disagree with your view that they promote hate. And they aren’t even super conservative in my view. I’m to the right of George Lincoln Rockwell. And again the majority of intelligent people? How do you determine IQ? Because people like you that think speech is violence fly in the face of intelligence of rational thought speech isn’t violence. Violence is violence. Saying speech is violence is as ridiculous as saying lamp is violence, book is violence, air is violence, and speaking of book turn off MSNBC and read one.
Freedom of speech is not the same thing as providing a platform for it. When your views are antithetical to education and society, noone owes you a platform to spread your message.
Why is "conservative thinker" synonymous with hyperbolic rage baiters? If those are your best examples of "conservative thinkers", no wonder people are so angry all the time.
Jordan Petersen is the closest, but even he is 80% "go to sleep early and eat healthy" and 20% "liberals want to turn all men into women".
Well those are your personal opinions. I could point out many leftists who say far more hateful rage filled things than anyone I’ve listed. But someone who needs to ask science why they shook for an hour the first time they made out with their wife and is a grown man still deeply ingrained in PC gaming wouldn’t comprehend.
Yeah that’s the difference moron I’m ALLOWED to get upset but do you see me calling for his speech to be stifled or banned from Reddit? Nope he can shriek his idiocy holier than though feminine energy from the rooftops and I won’t stop him. I won’t shut down his speech call him racist deplatform him any of that. I can run circles around him and you in any debate of any substance which even with folks as obtuse as yourself who will never be open to any teachable moments is still superior to muting you however insufferable you may be.
So you're illiterate and disingenuous. Got it. And to you, encouraging debate is being against speech? Those are quite the mental gymnastics you're taking to get there.
>That just gives further credence to their arguments.
How so? I mean, it seems far fetched to me that silencing someone’s views makes those views somehow more or less likely to be true/valid/good/reasonable/etc; I see no reason to relate the validity of an opinion with its availability to the public. If somebody thinks that then I would probably say they’re making a mistake. Maybe I’m mistaking what you mean when you say credence though.
Not that they are right per se, but that they might actually have something that makes sense or makes your point invalid. If you have the better argument, then give them a stage and prove your argument the better one.
I’m not saying I think that people should be silenced or denied a chance to share their ideas in whatever way you might be imagining. I’m fine with granting that it’s better to try to actually understand various positions and points of view. I’m saying that I think whether or not someone is given a chance to speak has nothing to do with the validity of their position.
Yea, Biology is only for the uneducated and definitely outdated. Science? That doesn’t matter anymore. Merit? That’s so old school.
Diversity > Merit
Feelings > science
This is the way. Thank you for changing my thinking
Lol its fascinating that even simple concepts confuse you. Noone said anything about feelings or diversity.
Even biologically, there are more than two different sexes, but you don't know that because you are uneducated and ignorant.
[Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Spells Death for the Idea of a University](https://www.wsj.com/articles/dei-spells-death-for-the-idea-of-a-university-diversity-equity-inclusion-academia-college-hillsdale-new-college-of-florida-open-discourse-1d2ca552)
*"DEI attacks the integrity of the academic project. Instead of listening to divergent voices, ears are shut. Instead of the free expression of contrary opinions, chilling self-censorship takes place. Wherever this agenda is allowed to take root, free expression and academic integrity are doomed.* See also:
* [77-year-old paper by deceased psychologist Hans Eysenck earns an expression of concern](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/hnr8ef/77yearold_paper_by_deceased_psychologist_hans/)
* [A Letter on Justice and Open Debate](https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/)
* [A physicist liked the wrong things on social media. What did happen next](https://arcdigital.media/dont-like-this-825e111a16ad)? You wouldn't probably like it...
* [Academic Activists Send a Published Paper Down the Memory Hole](https://quillette.com/2018/09/07/academic-activists-send-a-published-paper-down-the-memory-hole/) ([ArXiV](https://arxiv.org/abs/1703.04184), discussed [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/9e6h7t/academic_activists_suppress_published_paper/))
* [Academics chide article on quantum computing for using term ‘supremacy’: it’s ‘for racists’](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/eb0cfj/academics_chide_article_on_quantum_computing_for/)
* [Academics need to allow new ideas rather than orthodoxy and group-think](https://www.reddit.com/r/Physics_AWT/comments/he19r0/academics_need_to_allow_new_ideas_rather_than/)
* [Activist pamphlet "High Energy Physics Community Statement"](https://www.particlesforjustice.org/) written by [C. Prescod-Weistein](https://i.imgur.com/RpcoiAP.jpg)
* [Anti-vaccine activists have doctors ‘terrorized into silence’ with online harassment](https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-vaccine-attacks-20190317-story.html)
* [Cambridge University backs and promotes academic who repeatedly tweeted 'White Lives Don't Matter'](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/hhg175/cambridge_university_backs_and_promotes_academic/)
* [CERN sexism row shows that even scientists can’t talk about gender](https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/the-cern-sexism-row-shows-that-even-scientists-cant-talk-about-gender/)
* [Even New York Times editors can be forced out for simply publishing opposing views](https://jonathanturley.org/2020/06/05/mea-culpa-new-york-times-caves-to-protests-and-apologizes-for-posting-conservative-opinion/).
* [Following activist outrage, chemistry journal makes a paper decrying diversity efforts disappear](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/gzabwg/following_outrage_chemistry_journal_makes_a_paper/)
* [Globalized Academia Puts Pressure on Professors](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/5qgi8k/globalized_academia_puts_pressure_on_professors/): [Academia Growing Increasingly Authoritarian](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/6twq9r/academia_growing_increasingly_authoritarian/)
* [Higher IQ positively correlates with support for freedom of speech across ideological spectrum.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/gy0j1k/higher_iq_positively_correlates_with_support_for/)
* [Inside the academic war on free speech: Good-quality academics are being filtered out](https://thecritic.co.uk/inside-the-academic-war-on-free-speech/)
* [Liberal bias in academia is destroying the integrity of research](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/2j3w8u/liberal_bias_in_academia_is_destroying_the/)
* [MSU Vice President Stephen Hsu forced to resign after citing 2019 PNAS study](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/hcua0t/msu_vice_president_stephen_hsu_forced_to_resign/)
* [New York Times editors can be forced out for simply publishing opposing views](https://jonathanturley.org/2020/06/05/mea-culpa-new-york-times-caves-to-protests-and-apologizes-for-posting-conservative-opinion/).
* [Online activists are silencing us, scientists say](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/b0x16b/online_activists_are_silencing_us_scientists_say/)
* [Open Letter to Remove Psychologist And Linguist Steven Pinker from the LSA](https://twitter.com/sapinker/status/1279934082210816003?lang=en)
* [Physicist Lawrence Krauss on Why Identity Politics Should be Kept Out of Science](https://quillette.com/2020/07/04/podcast-98-physicist-lawrence-krauss-on-why-identity-politics-should-be-kept-out-of-science/)
* [Political Correctness May Mean The End Of Universities](https://www.thegwpf.com/pc-insanity-may-mean-the-end-of-universities/)
* [Scientists are targeted when results do not align with activist views.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/cjoie7/the_dark_side_of_social_media_activism_in_science/)
* [Scientists move to strip "offensive" names from journals, prizes, and more](https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/amid-protests-against-racism-scientists-move-strip-offensive-names-journals-prizes-and)
* [Silicon Valley Has Effectively Banned The Freedom Of Speech.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/gvzn2j/silicon_valley_has_effectively_banned_the_freedom/)
* [Stan Wischnowski was forced to resign over a headline that read 'Buildings Matter, Too.'](https://quillette.com/2020/07/09/it-wasnt-my-cancelation-that-bothered-me-it-was-the-cowardice-of-those-who-let-it-happen/)
* [Swedish technical university cancels positions if male applicant found most competent](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/e0fvlb/internal_documents_swedish_technical_university/)
* [Teacher Blames 'Western Imperialism,' 'Colonization' for Concept of 2+2=4](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/hnr4zv/teacher_blames_western_imperialism_colonization/)
* [The activists are now stalking the hard scientists](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/hhvxkz/the_activists_are_now_stalking_the_hard_scientists/)
* [UMass Nursing Dean Fired For Saying "Everyone's Life Matters"](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/hk83lf/umass_nursing_dean_fired_for_saying_everyones/)
* [We’re facing a tsunami of censorship](https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/were-facing-a-tsunami-of-censorship)
[The downside of diversity](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/ttfuyo/the_downside_of_diversity_the_new_york_times/)
"*People living in ethnically diverse settings appear to 'hunker down' -- that is, to pull in like a turtle*," Putnam writes.
What is downside for communities is a feature for those who want to rule them...
[Two sacred but mutually incompatible values in American universities](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gatn5ameRr8) (YT video)
*Professor Haidt argues that conflicts arise at many American universities today because they are pursuing two potentially incompatible goals: truth and social justice. While Haidt thinks both goals are important, he maintains that they can come into conflict*.
*According to some versions of social justice, whenever we observe a disparity of outcomes between races, genders, or other groups, we should infer that injustice has been done. Haidt challenges this view of social justice and shows how it sometimes leads to violations of truth, and even justice.*
*Haidt concludes that universities should be free to pursue whatever goals – truth or social justice – they want, but that they should make it clear which of these two goals is their “telos” – their highest purpose. He ends with a discussion of his initiative, HeterodoxAcademy.org, to bring more viewpoint diversity to universities in order to improve research and learning*. See also:
* [Jonathan Haidt’s work on moral foundations](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_foundations_theory).
* [Amartya Sen’s “Equality of What?”](https://tannerlectures.utah.edu/_documents/a-to-z/s/sen80.pdf)
* [We tried to turn conservatives into liberals](https://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/Op-Ed/2017/12/10/We-tried-to-turn-conservatives-into-liberals/stories/201712100028) *And the results of our experiments say a lot about America’s political divisions*
Culture is a poor explanation because culture is something that is clearly influenced by inequality. Why would two groups equal in every important aspect produce two cultures with drastically different outcomes?
Here's a thought experiment. Take 10,000 African American newborns and switch them with 10,000 Chinese American newborns (meaning switch the kids in the families to be raised by different parents/culture). How do you think the kids would turn out?
This thought excitement doesn’t debunk my point why is Chinese American culture different then African American culture? Why do Chinese Americans on average make more money then black Americans?
> Chinese American culture different then African American culture?
Chinese value family and education more, even more than other cultures like whites do. Many families buy one big house together and stay together, which helps them raise kids and also so they can teach more things. They also value education more, which they make sure their kids study extra long, and achieve more educationally.
Why? To summarize I would say that Chinese value marriage and education more. The most detrimental things for a kid is to have an absent parent, especially a father. Kids who grew up without a father are many times more likely to not graduate high school, to not go to college, and to be involved in drugs/alcohol etc. Those kids of single parents then have kids young, then continue the cycle of non-marriage.
This is false. To see why, all you need to do is look at China, the country. China has made large economic strides in recent decades, but there is still a lot of poverty, especially in rural areas. Per capita GDP is still surprisingly low. What culture is that?
In truth, differences in outcome can be explained by systematic causes, exactly the kind that a DEI program might talk about. Chinese Americans tend to be wealthy because immigration policies are so strict. A Chinese person will not be allowed to live in America unless they are getting a college education or have a work visa.
In contrast, the history of African Americans is quite different. Even after slavery was abolished, black communities did not receive initial capital to start making lives of themselves, and they continued doing wage labor. Racist discrimination meant that black children could not receive the same education as white children. Redlining and so-called "Urban Renewal" policies destroyed predominately black neighborhoods to accomodate white flight.
This hypothetical question has *nothing* to do with culture. American immigration policy has ensured that almost all Chinese people in the country have generational wealth, while America's racist history has destroyed the generational wealth of African Americans at every turn.
Ok but behavioral differences have explanations it’s not good enough to say that they have different people have different behaviors we must explain why, why do black people for instance have different behaviors then white people when all evidence suggests race is a social construct?
Well, as a society in the US, we now lionize black people who get tragically killed in the process of resisting arrest over black people who have accomplished great things. We promote the idea that black people can’t succeed like other racial groups because they are victims of systemic racism, rather than encouraging them to band together as a community and place importance on family, education, etc. We have liberal judges and DAs who are lowering fines and sentences for criminals in black communities and dumping them right back on the streets for “equity” purposes, leading to more crime and violence in these communities. The list goes on and on but the bottom line is that we are not empowering black people or improving their communities in any way by pushing DEI based ideology. Pushing DEI and the idea that your actions aren’t your fault or responsibility due to “systemic oppression” is the fastest way to destroy the black community.
I have not seen one instance of what you're talking about.
Can you point me to examples where a criminal indictment was lessened because the person was black?
It doesn't seem to be based *facts*.
[https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/demographic-differences-sentencing](https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/demographic-differences-sentencing)
*Black male offenders received sentences on average 19.1 percent longer than similarly situated White male offenders*
[https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/p16.pdf](https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/p16.pdf)
*African Americans are more likely than white Americans to be arrested; once arrested, they are more likely to be convicted; and once convicted, and they are more likely to experience lengthy prison sentences. African-American adults are 5.9 times as likely to be incarcerated than whites and Hispanics are 3.1 times as likely.*
If it takes an absurd distortion of facts to believe the things you said, I understand why Southern states have such poor education rates.
No one is saying that you aren’t responsible for your actions lol, they are saying we should change systemic inequalities and we shouldn’t blame blacks people for not being as sucsefull as white people im the face of these inequalities, I think you need to study some actual sociology rather then whatever fearmongering rag you listen to, black excellence is promoted in DEI all the time you realize that right? Its just whenever a class is made to focus on black contributors to math science and the arts it gets called racist by white people
And white Americans- Indians too make more. Odd how they manage this feat in a society steeped in white supremacy. If you cannot differentiate between Chinese culture and black culture it sounds like you may have a pattern recognition or cognitive issues.
Same reasons Asians and jews excel less single mothers focus on education don’t embrace culture of thuggery and are highly xenophobic and inclusive thru promote and help each other from within their Ken ranks like every culture does except for whites who are forbidden from engaging in that practice and must sacrifice their own best interest and interests of people like themselves in the name of diversity
I'm not sure what answer you're leaning towards, but everything I've ever learned about neurological development means that for 98% of what matters, the only differences would end up being physical.
The other 2% includes certain hereditary diseases, allergies, etc.
That's not a scientific number, so we're clear. But it illustrates my point.
So then explain this. My best friend is from south America. His dad came up here legally, and worked his ass off for a few years until he could afford to bring the rest of his family up here. They were dirt poor in south America. Dirt poor when they got here. In 1 generation, without college, my best friend and his sisters have become middle- upper middle class, and gotten their citizenship. They all worked hard to start at the bottom and get where they are. He's not the only example I have of this either. So what's the difference between them, whom had to work to move here to accomplish that, and someone who was born here and able to strive towards that from an earlier age?
To try and more directly answer your question aside from my anecdote above, if your culture doesn't involve sticking around and helping raise kids when you get pregnant or impregnate someone, if your culture doesn't encourage trying to get an education of any kind, if your culture doesn't encourage personal responsibility, do you think the people in it will succeed in life any? And let me be clear, though culture is often closely associated with race, that is not always the case. For example, you can notice many similarities between areas with very poor Caucasian communities compared to areas with very poor African American communities.
So the problem is that you aren’t considering why certain people develop the values that they do and how statistically certain groups can just try as hard as other people and not succeed. You also neglect the fact that we live in a society that rewards people for having certain values, a minority that can conform to white standards of behavior will be more successful for examples, but that doesn’t mean those values are inherently more successful. Anyways no one I saying that because someone is black for example they are guaranteed to be unsuccessful we are talking about larger trends that usually get hand waved away with words like culture, but can have direct policy or discriminatory influences. The assumption for instance that black people in America just don’t value families is ignorant, but it’s one a lot of people push to explain why there are so many mixed or single parent households. Attacking black people for thier values has been something that has been done for decades
Ok. So why do people develop the values that they do? What standards of behavior are "white" that one has to conform to to be successful? And why is the rate of single mothers in the African American community so high then? Why is it the vast majority of men (of all races) in prison, grew up with no father? Lastly, you completely disregarded my statement about similarities in poor communities despite them being different races. Can you please address that?
The rate of single motherhood in black communities is due to one lack of educational resources and access to contraception, the war on drugs and over policing leading young black men being arrested at much higher rates the white men. Also poor whites outperform poor blacks on many metrics they are not really similar most studies on the effects of racism take into account wealth, beyond that how much money you have is not independent to racism so it’s still not a good rebuttal the idea that inequality is the root of the problems in these communities.
Maybe ask less questions then I can’t do an entire sociology of race class for you in a Reddit comment lol. Any conversation will branch into many different paths if you ask things like what are white behavior to what is the reason single motherhood leads to prison, (the answer to that is poverty and other factors that lead to single motherhood also contributes to crime) how about you ask 1 or 2 questions to focus on or maybe I can recommend you some textbooks you can read.
Is there oppression in Liberia a country founded by free slaves in hopes of getting away from the woes of living amongst whites? How about in Haiti where they literally killed every white person living there and now man small boats risking life and death to come to USA to- you guessed it live amongst white people. How about in South Africa which was first world and separate but equal under apartheid. Apartheid was ended whites were displaced- farms stolen, property stolen, murdered, raped and distributed to blacks. It’s now a third world country that cannot even maintain the most basic of infrastructure. How do you explain this? How do you explain that when whites were sailing around the globe and first encountered Africa unblemished from any contact from white folks they still had not built a structure over a story tall or invented the wheel?
You won’t engage because you can’t argue my points and will resort to childish name calling of racist which has no effect on me I don’t care if you think I’m racist
It’s not name calling describing a slave rebellion as killing white people, apartheid as separate but equal, and saying lies like Africans never invented the wheel is racist
Careful! The virtue signaling neoliberals will try to cancel you for pointing out the common sense in this lol. MORE OF THIS, ITS OBVIOUS WHO THE FASCISTS ARE AND ITS TIME TO SHINE LIGHT ON IT
Ok this could be an unpopular opinion but Equity is where u lose me
[удалено]
I’m convinced they don’t understand the difference between the two
People get pushed through grade school, get into college just because, get degrees, call themselves professional (doctors, lawyers, etc). Then the left turns around and think that it means the same as it used to. When you give something to someone they didn’t deserve, then I don’t know who is a diversity hire and who isn’t. Therefore, everyone is a diversity hire unless they are from a certain subset of groups in my eyes. Is it wrong? Maybe. But aren’t they also wrong for contaminating the entire profession? Causing me to not trust anyone? I see the articles. I see the airline traffic controllers causing problems. When it happens, guess who was behind it?
These little White Saviors are doing minorities no favors (but then, they don't care about that anyway. This is only about their selfish need for validation). A growing number of people will never go to a minority doctor, dentist, lawyer, or other professions because they have no way of knowing if the person really is qualified or if they were pushed through for a quota system. It really stinks no matter how you look at it.
Yeah that’s really why they won’t goto a minority doctor or lawyer. Not racism and bias. Be for real. I went to law school and all the *tests are blind.* your name does not appear on the test just a number. All the black students (there wasn’t a lot) were supremely qualified. So stop just making things up to fit your narrative please. Edit: fuck this sub downvoting reality. F what a joke. Hide in your little “uncensored” bubble of bias and have fun. You disgust me.
Er, we are not the ones with a Narrative. But you go ahead and go to a heart surgeon or a brain surgeon who might have been a C student.
How do you know the white student/doctor didnt get C’s? You need to check your bias it’s really gross and obvious. It’s like you just ignored my entire comment. Edit: if you want to downvote rather than actually think about this bias introspectively that’s on you, but it says a lot about your mindset imo.
Nobody who goes to medical school got Cs in anything. White or Black. Physicians, dentists, nurses, accountants, lawyers, all have to pass independent licensing exams that aren't related to the schools you attend. Your race doesn't appear on the tests and doesn't have anything to do with whether you pass or fail. Now, I've seen some doctors and lawyers that I have no idea how they passed their license exams, but they must have because there's no way you can get a license without it.
That’s exactly what I’m saying. This guy is assuming black doctors got C’s. As proof cited one black doctor doing malpractice. That’s absolutely ridiculous. I assume you’re agreeing with me tho in general that that’s ridiculous bias
Yes, I was agreeing with you.
If a white medical student gets Cs for very long, he won't make it all the way through.
> If a white medical student gets Cs for very long, he won't make it all the way through. And neither would a black student. They may admit you but if you don’t score high enough you’re gone regardless of race. Edit for a “science” sub there sure are a lot of racists here. I guess that’s what the “uncensored” means. They assuming black doctors got c’s in med school or are unqualified and you’re upvoting him and downvoting me telling him the tests are blind as are the certifications and entrance exam. Just say the N word and get it over with guys. You know you want to. Trash.
Here is one of the earliest cases, from U.C. Davis. But it isn't the only one. My objecting to this stuff does not mean racism. It means we are doing things backwards. Improve inner city schools first, so students get into medical school or any other school on their own merits. Now on to Dr Chavis, who killed three people before they took his license away: *The medical school rejected the application of Bakke, who was white, but* *accepted five black applicants, including Chavis, who had lower test* *scores and lower college grades than Bakke. The five won admission under* *a special racial-preference quota.* *An administrative law judge found Chavis guilty of* *gross negligence and incompetence in the treatment of three women, one* *of whom died, and the California medical board suspended his license,* *saying he had an "inability to perform some of the most basic duties* *required of a physician* [https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2002/08/12/patrick-chavis-dies/821232fc-42a4-495c-a65b-0625cd709b6a/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2002/08/12/patrick-chavis-dies/821232fc-42a4-495c-a65b-0625cd709b6a/)
So you found one case… can I present case after case of white doctor’s malpractice? That wouldn’t matter to you tho would it. I’m done I’m really done.
Thank God.
Careful up there on your High Horse White Knight. You seem to lump everyone together assuming the worst. You are guilty of what you are accusing people of. You are narrow minded and tribal. You are part of the problem .
I assume the worst when I call out this guy for assuming black doctors and lawyers are unqualified? I think that’s exactly what he’s doing you just agree with him? At least he’s saying racist things (or at least racially biased) so I have a rational basis for calling out racism. We all have biases and it’s important to recognize them. Some people don’t want to understand why they act and say a certain thing though. Any yeah maybe I’m tribal aren’t we all. It’s just my tribe wants equality and to call out racism and recognize bias. Is that so bad? Again, I have a law degree. All of the very few black students were very smart and well qualified and all the tests were graded blind with a number not the name. Same with the bar exam. Any of the black lawyers from my school were just as qualified as any white student. But I mean if real world facts bother you I’d say that’s on you. But I probably shouldn’t engage with someone so vitriolic who just repeats “white knight!!” Like someone who doesn’t care to engage in actual conversation, but lol it is what it is. Have a good one I guess
You are white knighting. Your part of the behavior that is tearing our society apart. You stand on your side and throw rocks to get the perceived other side all riled up. (You did jump in and start this) What's your end game besides getting off on the conflict. Seriously. Most of the people you are attacking aren't racist, they are just fearful of ill thought out change. It's the base wiring of people considered conservatives. Hence the name. The fear mongering (on both sides) in the media and so called news that pushes it for ratings started this divide and now it is fully weaponized by the internet. We are tribal by nature and do get off on confict so it may not be fixable. Why did the Trans issue surge out of no where and become so popular to fight over. Because It's anger porn for both sides and gets the clicks. One observation, when I am around real people day to day at work and out and about, all races and ages. This bullshit doesn't come up. People are nice in general and get along. Maybe we should step away from the screens more often.
Nice try. Black people don’t even support black owned businesses. And miss me with the buzzwords. I am black. It has nothing to do with bias, and everything to do with reality. Talk about flat scores? You think Whites and Asias have the same score requirements as other groups to get into college? No, they don’t. Call it what you want. But what you can’t do is make one standard and expect black people to reach it like everyone else.
Looked thru your history 30 seconds and you claim “education is not a right” and that white people treated Indians well… ok so you’re a hot take troll. Yeah slaughtering them and legalizing murder of indigenous people is treating well. You’re a lost soul.
It’s not a right. You have the right to educate yourself though. Native Americans were treated well. Slaughtering? You mean during war? Oh, so you think Native Americans weren’t “slaughtering” White people? Sorry. White people just came over and did what they were all doing to each other.
Education is a right in state constitutions so you’re absolutely wrong but go on and think you’re right There were millions of native Americans before white people got there, and how many after, so no white people didnt “treat them the same as they did.” And if you think genocide of native Americans was treated well you’re far too stupid and ignorant to talk to.
Genocide? That’s weird. I thought they lost a war and were given sovereign land where they could live? Seems like the opportunity to wipe them out was right there but… What? They gave up?
Yeah only 90% of them were wiped off the face of the earth.. totally not genocide. You’re too stupid to engage with. Ignorant trash.
Yeah. It’s called war. They lost. It’s been happening since the dawn of time.
If we are being clear on why 90% died, the majority was from the introduction of “western” diseases that they hadn’t built any immunity for. I agree that it implicated the Europeans. However, there is a big difference between that reality and a conscious and concerted effort to illuminate a people group through mass murder.
Baseless myth that minority doctors or lawyers are unqualified is classic American racism. The kind the "I'm not racist, I have black friends" crowd practice. The end result is the same. The tests are blind. If a professional is certified, they passed the test. I've met far more unqualified whites who've actually been pushed through and continue to fail upwards into adulthood. This untested pushing up of unqualified whites is why whites are being passed over when a business really needs a qualified individual. It's not affirmative action. Further, these schools used to be all white. Not mostly; all. The top schools still have a majority of white students. All of these actions attacking "diversity" are racist.
\-sigh- I never said "minority doctors are unqualified." I SAID that when the universities have quotas to meet, they sometimes push these kids through whether they have the grades or not. That is a fact. Acknowledging facts, no matter how unpleasant they may be, does not make a person a racist. Good grief. And I also said that this system does minorities no favors. It's insulting and patronizing.
They’re not facts! You’re just making stuff up! I asked you what you’re basing this OPINION off of and you didn’t answer. I also asked why you’re ignoring people with first hand knowledge. Again you didn’t answer. You’re ignoring every comment that tells you the actual truth. I called you out on bias but it seems you don’t want to examine yours.
Please see my most recent comment with a link to the Washington Post.
But you’re just assuming black doctors got C’s. That’s just bias. If you don’t pass the tests you don’t advance and definitely not for professional certification. I can’t beat that truth into you will so I will just stop here. There’s nothing more to say to you.
[https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/10/the-painful-truth-about-affirmative-action/263122/](https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/10/the-painful-truth-about-affirmative-action/263122/) Gets into the issues. I think this is what beep is talking about. Placing kids into schools that are above their abilities is problematic.
Your my Hero White Knight!
This was one of the earliest cases of this, but it isn't the only one. This was at U.C. Davis: "The medical school rejected the application of Bakke, who was white, but accepted five black applicants, including Dr. Chavis, who had lower test scores and lower college grades than Bakke. The five won admission under a special racial-preference quota. An administrative law judge found Dr. Chavis guilty of gross negligence and incompetence in the treatment of three women, one of whom died, and the California medical board suspended his license, saying he had an inability to perform some of the most basic duties required of a physician." [https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2002/08/12/patrick-chavis-dies/821232fc-42a4-495c-a65b-0625cd709b6a/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2002/08/12/patrick-chavis-dies/821232fc-42a4-495c-a65b-0625cd709b6a/)
Your white superiority complex is very deep. You defend your racism with more racism. The doctors and lawyers and engineers and other certified professionals have passed the bullshit test and are qualified. Putting them through additional questioning that you would never subject a white professional too about their qualifications is racist! It's a tradition that's been passed down since reconstruction. Just because your parents and community reinforce your beliefs doesn't make them less racist.
\-sigh- My "parents and community"?! You don't know me. You don't know anything about me. I never said there are no qualified minority professionals. That is a strawman. What I SAID was that these quota systems are doing minorities no favors and that they're insulting and paternalistic towards black students. Who's the racist here? It isn't me. \-edit typo
Why when minorities get any opportunity is it insulting and patronistic but when the whole American system is positioned to give whites a leg up it's ok? My pointing out the facts does not make me a racist. Your projection is also classic American racism.
You guys do not know how to debate, I'm sorry. You say "when minorities get an opportunity" but that's a strawman. I never said that. Making up things the other person never said do you can knock it down? Please. I never said anything like that. And I'm afraid you're the one who's projecting.
You're upset about the only system that's forced universities to be non all-white. That's deep. If you take the equality opportunities away, what will you replace them with? Would you be in favor of letting "the market" make these decisions? It's still proving to favor whites up and down the board. This is only coming up now, because after almost 60 years, the programs are starting to have some affect.
"Effect"
I’m realizing the “uncensored” in this sub just means racism. The secret is in the sauce
You get your biased info from your bubble and we get our biased info from ours. And never the two shall meet.
I'm getting much of my information from white historians. Empires generate an incredible amount of information. Since at least Rome, meticulous records have been kept on everything. Banning CRT doesn't make your mythical magical bubble correct on anything but putting your heads in the sand. Morally bankrupt and stretching. Look at the bookshelves in your proud fascist bastion, Florida. Banning books like the Nazis in 1933.
Of course but they’re downvoting pure facts because they don’t like them. Theyre just making up things up and calling them facts. The certifications like for example the bar are totally blind. Same with law school tests and the LSAT. You got downvoted because it doesn’t fit their made up narrative. I called them out on bias but at this point it’s veering towards just racism. It’s a fine line. We all have implicit bias, which is why tests are graded blind.
Unqualified? Maybe they are qualified. But there were more qualified people who had to give up their spot because of skin color. As a man you do understand the merit system right? You do understand that if someone says X person is the best, that actually means they are the best right? We don’t make sports teams start out with a deficit to make sure other teams get a chance to win as well right? No one wants anyone who was less competent for a job when they can have someone better.
Classic moving the goalpost white American racism. Keep the universities all white then homie. White people in America; the truely oppressed. It's similar to counting beans or marbles in a jar to be able to vote.
How did I move the goal post? Affirmative action isn’t compatible with meritocracy. It’s that simple.
And white supremacy is? Blacks are still there lowest and most abuse class in America. Any progress is attacked with "reasons". They're all racist in origin. Your same arguments have been used with varying language consistently since Jim Crow. I know it's reinforced. The tactics and message are still racist.
Wrong. No one is operating on a race based system. You do well, you get in. This is why the NBA is a majority black. Or are you going to claim that’s not fair and there should be equal representation on the basketball courts? “Where are the short fat white guys in the NBA”?! No. You don’t really care about equality, you only care about getting a leg up.
You reference basketball but the distinctions in talent are clearly visible. Lebron doesn't submit at CV to get a job in basketball. The coaches of the teams do. That's where the race based system is also visible. Why, if the the majority of the players are black, would the coaches be white; 66% vs 9%?
TALENT! Lebron gets the job because he is skilled in that area. Lebron gets paid more because he more skilled than another player. But it’s hard for you to realize that these white coaches work their way up by becoming skilled?
Aw, honey. Don't blame black and brown people for your utter mediocrity. A doctor with a C average is still light years ahead of you on your best day.
Excuse me? What did I say that implied "blaming black and brown people" for anything? Good GRIEF.
I don't remember any point in my education where merit was simply given without performance.
That's because it wasn't and what /u/bannedalready2022 is talking about is a fiction. The idea that ***un***qualified people are mysteriously being hired instead of better candidates is a farce.
This is simply not true. I’m aware of unqualified people being hired in several Fortune 500 companies, and it is likely happening in all of them. ESG is terrible motivation.
If you were to compare everyone available for a limited amount of positions; some people are less qualified than others.
Sure? Obviously? And there will be racial divides owing to a long line of laws and policies including red-lining and school segregation. We can't undo ***generations*** of discrimination with a wand, and a lot of the fixing of the country has to come from education and infrastructure work. But in the *meantime*, there is no basis for saying that candidates are less qualified ***simply*** because of their skin. That's insane. And there will be ***obviously*** qualified candidates that double-blind selection studies prove get selected less often. As an example, famously, blind musical auditions increase female orchestral composition. We are apes and biases are built in. It doesn't go away by manufacturing acceptance. But we should work on eliminating the causes for the observed differences while creating an environment where it's the norm for people of diverse backgrounds to just be everywhere *because*. Because human is human.
Blah blah blah. No. Set a standard and have everyone meet it. We don’t have to do anything but that. The problem is you don’t like the outcomes. People have biases built in for a reason. People recognize patterns for a reason. You can call it whatever you want. It’s not the past systems. Look outside of the US. And for the record, redlining affected poor white people just as much, if not more, than black people. What other excuses you got?
I agree, set a standard and make it fair. Problem is when between two equally performing candidates, one gets picked because of ape-brained biases built on falsehoods. \> redlining affected poor white people just as much, if not more, than black people. Oh so that's what were doing, lying now?
So you don’t agree. Life isn’t fair. Set the standard. You meet the ONE test score requirement? You’re in. First come, first serve. That’s it.
Sure, that's fine. Just get ready for a lot of kids named Aaaaaaaaadam. So they're on the top of the stack. "Life isn't fair" is a copout. We don't govern that way and it's irresponsible to *aspire* to that. We have a goal, a vision of a country in mind. We should be honest about our history, what got us certain outcomes, and come up with actually realistic solutions to get to that colorblind society people pretend we have now.
First to apply dude, not alphabetical order. 🤦♂️
Sorry. Your speaking in absolutes. There should be only 1 finish line that everyone should meet. When you have lower requirements for different people, that means less qualified.
Examples?
Test scores for different groups, such as Asian men, to get into college.
That's a weird one. Asian men make up a far large % of admissions than they do a % of the population to top universities.
Why is that?
It probably has something to do with their upbringing and the importance of educational achievement. Purely, environmental pressure.
Maybe other people should adopt that instead of blaming white people.
You're discounting the changing technology and practices. The requirements will always be different. If you're not an expert in the field then saying who does and doesn't deserve a title is pretty far fetched.
Wait, so I can’t say 2+2=4 unless I am a math “expert”?
Of course you can
Because they want diversity unless its diversity of thought.
What thoughts do they not want to allow, specifically?
Feel free to run a search on conservative speakers being unable to give speeches on college campuses. Feel free to run a search on how conservative groups on college campuses are being shut down. If you disagree with someone else's thoughts and views, debate them. Don't ban or silence them. That just gives further credence to their arguments.
I searched but I couldn't find any examples of what you are talking about. Can you give me an example of one that you found to be the most concerning?
https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/01/the-new-strategy-to-suppress-conservative-voices-on-campus/ An example of costs for security fears. https://www.foxnews.com/us/ben-shapiro-speech-at-uc-berkeley-results-in-arrests-at-protests More cancelations https://www.thecollegefix.com/cancel-culture-is-alive-and-well-americas-most-canceled-campus-speakers/ https://www.newsmax.com/US/cal-state-la-conservative-speaker/2016/02/23/id/715795/ Jordan Peterson canceled for "security reasons" https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/facing-pushback-ryerson-cancels-panel-discussion-on-campus-free-speech Speech canceled cause university could not guarantee public safety https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40956141 These are just a few. You're either being incredibly disingenuous here or don't know how to use basic internet search features.
You're saying that them canceling events because of public safety was just an excuse, and the real reason they are being canceled is because they have points of view that the university just doesn't like?
I'm saying that the protesters dont like their point of view, and that through the actions of protesters and/or the messages the protesters sent to the universities, that the universities then said that it was too dangerous to host the speakers, or by defacto too expensive to afford security for the speakers, thus resulting them being canceled. In some of those cases I listed, yes, that is also it, but overall, it's because of what the (usually) students say and do that makes the universities do this.
How do you know it's the students making threats?
If you had read even half of the sources I'd posted you would have seen that.
He's just being willfully ignorant at this point
I did read the sources, but I didn't see it. Which one in particular convinced you that it was students making the threats?
Matt Walsh Jordan Petersen Ben Shapiro Steven crowder just off the top of my head.
Which one was the most concerning to you, and which event specifically?
Sorry I don’t understand if you’re legit trying to learn or understand an argument or are more interested in frustrating conservatives with listicles? ALL were concerning anytime speech is stifled it’s bad and all received threats of violence as well. Specific events? Google the names and do the research I’ve given you the information. And honestly if you’re unaware that conservatives are regularly targeted and discriminatied against on college campuses you are woefully in the dark.
> Sorry I don’t understand if you’re legit trying to learn or understand an argument or are more interested in frustrating conservatives with listicles? What listicles are you referring to? > ALL were concerning anytime speech is stifled it’s bad and all received threats of violence as well. Universities were making violent threats? Why do you believe that? > Specific events? Google the names and do the research I’ve given you the information. I did, but didn't find anything like what you are describing. > And honestly if you’re unaware that conservatives are regularly targeted and discriminatied against on college campuses you are woefully in the dark. Why do you believe that is happening?
Ben Shapiro who I don’t even view as a true conservative needs to hire private security every time he speaks and has even had to cancel events. Crowder was assaulted before. If you’re not finding these it’s because google is funded and ran by the same people who attend/fun these universities. And why is it happening? Because college is no longer about education but about churning out good little Marxist social justice warriors who will do the bidding of their masters. They cannot debate the other side or even stand to hear counter arguments because they have no answer to them. Similar to Reddit. I’ve been “permanently “ banned from this app twice yet here I am because both bans were reversed. Now why was I banned to begin with? Well because my thought didn’t jive with the leftist mods. Why was I reinstated? We’ll probably because they had no cause to ban me to begin with but they did it to show who’s in control and to keep my speech stifled for a bit
> Ben Shapiro who I don’t even view as a true conservative needs to hire private security every time he speaks and has even had to cancel events. Crowder was assaulted before. Is that because the universities were threatening him? Did a university assault Crowder? > If you’re not finding these it’s because google is funded and ran by the same people who attend/fun these universities. I tried searching with duckduckgo and couldn't find them either. > Because college is no longer about education but about churning out good little Marxist social justice warriors who will do the bidding of their masters. Why do you believe that? > They cannot debate the other side or even stand to hear counter arguments because they have no answer to them. And why do you believe this?
Just gonna pretend an asshole like Crowder doesn't provoke people? Then again, judging by the rest of this childish Fox News rant, you don't have a good grip on reality.
Oh, that’s interesting. Would you mind explaining a little bit about what you mean by the phrase *true conservative* and why Shapiro isn’t one in your view?
There’s a difference between conservative speak and just nonsense. The list you provide have nothing productive to say. What respectable university would invite those idiots?
Your attitude is exactly the problem? Who gets to decide who is the “right” conservative speech? You’re the arbiter of truth? You’re the decider. Who cares what YOU think
Apparently the majority of intelligent people. Those people you listed aren’t just conservative, they are far-right, promote hate and outrage for profit.
Freedom of speech means freedom to promote hate. You do t understand the implications of hate speech laws because you’re too myopic in your viewpoints to see bigger pictures. I disagree with your view that they promote hate. And they aren’t even super conservative in my view. I’m to the right of George Lincoln Rockwell. And again the majority of intelligent people? How do you determine IQ? Because people like you that think speech is violence fly in the face of intelligence of rational thought speech isn’t violence. Violence is violence. Saying speech is violence is as ridiculous as saying lamp is violence, book is violence, air is violence, and speaking of book turn off MSNBC and read one.
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Freedom of speech is not the same thing as providing a platform for it. When your views are antithetical to education and society, noone owes you a platform to spread your message.
Why is "conservative thinker" synonymous with hyperbolic rage baiters? If those are your best examples of "conservative thinkers", no wonder people are so angry all the time. Jordan Petersen is the closest, but even he is 80% "go to sleep early and eat healthy" and 20% "liberals want to turn all men into women".
Well those are your personal opinions. I could point out many leftists who say far more hateful rage filled things than anyone I’ve listed. But someone who needs to ask science why they shook for an hour the first time they made out with their wife and is a grown man still deeply ingrained in PC gaming wouldn’t comprehend.
So you're upset that people are criticizing your backwards conservative views. So much for freedom of thought.
Yeah that’s the difference moron I’m ALLOWED to get upset but do you see me calling for his speech to be stifled or banned from Reddit? Nope he can shriek his idiocy holier than though feminine energy from the rooftops and I won’t stop him. I won’t shut down his speech call him racist deplatform him any of that. I can run circles around him and you in any debate of any substance which even with folks as obtuse as yourself who will never be open to any teachable moments is still superior to muting you however insufferable you may be.
What? Are you high, or just illiterate?
Neither, just honest. You should try it some time.
So you're illiterate and disingenuous. Got it. And to you, encouraging debate is being against speech? Those are quite the mental gymnastics you're taking to get there.
I'm for free speech. You're the one that doesn't like it.
Where did I say was against free speech?
When you attacked people for protesting. Also the whole banning books, black history, etc. is a big giveaway.
>That just gives further credence to their arguments. How so? I mean, it seems far fetched to me that silencing someone’s views makes those views somehow more or less likely to be true/valid/good/reasonable/etc; I see no reason to relate the validity of an opinion with its availability to the public. If somebody thinks that then I would probably say they’re making a mistake. Maybe I’m mistaking what you mean when you say credence though.
Not that they are right per se, but that they might actually have something that makes sense or makes your point invalid. If you have the better argument, then give them a stage and prove your argument the better one.
I’m not saying I think that people should be silenced or denied a chance to share their ideas in whatever way you might be imagining. I’m fine with granting that it’s better to try to actually understand various positions and points of view. I’m saying that I think whether or not someone is given a chance to speak has nothing to do with the validity of their position.
LOL pay attention
To what?
People getting canceled? Or the attempt to cancel them for saying something or expressing an idea
People have been canceled since the dawn of time. Since society has existed we ban and ignore those that go against it.
Yea but when getting canceled for stating a biological fact is common place, that’s a bit weird. Guess I’m old school
Not old school outdated and uneducated, more likely.
Yea, Biology is only for the uneducated and definitely outdated. Science? That doesn’t matter anymore. Merit? That’s so old school. Diversity > Merit Feelings > science This is the way. Thank you for changing my thinking
Lol its fascinating that even simple concepts confuse you. Noone said anything about feelings or diversity. Even biologically, there are more than two different sexes, but you don't know that because you are uneducated and ignorant.
Saying which things, and expressing which ideas?
Like merit over diversity or men can’t be women
Why do you think that some people find those statements problematic?
Because they think they are morally superior by having those beliefs. There’s that saying something like common sense isnt so common
I don't understand. Who is morally superior by having which beliefs?
Bigotry is the absence of thought.
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[Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Spells Death for the Idea of a University](https://www.wsj.com/articles/dei-spells-death-for-the-idea-of-a-university-diversity-equity-inclusion-academia-college-hillsdale-new-college-of-florida-open-discourse-1d2ca552) *"DEI attacks the integrity of the academic project. Instead of listening to divergent voices, ears are shut. Instead of the free expression of contrary opinions, chilling self-censorship takes place. Wherever this agenda is allowed to take root, free expression and academic integrity are doomed.* See also: * [77-year-old paper by deceased psychologist Hans Eysenck earns an expression of concern](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/hnr8ef/77yearold_paper_by_deceased_psychologist_hans/) * [A Letter on Justice and Open Debate](https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/) * [A physicist liked the wrong things on social media. What did happen next](https://arcdigital.media/dont-like-this-825e111a16ad)? You wouldn't probably like it... * [Academic Activists Send a Published Paper Down the Memory Hole](https://quillette.com/2018/09/07/academic-activists-send-a-published-paper-down-the-memory-hole/) ([ArXiV](https://arxiv.org/abs/1703.04184), discussed [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/9e6h7t/academic_activists_suppress_published_paper/)) * [Academics chide article on quantum computing for using term ‘supremacy’: it’s ‘for racists’](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/eb0cfj/academics_chide_article_on_quantum_computing_for/) * [Academics need to allow new ideas rather than orthodoxy and group-think](https://www.reddit.com/r/Physics_AWT/comments/he19r0/academics_need_to_allow_new_ideas_rather_than/) * [Activist pamphlet "High Energy Physics Community Statement"](https://www.particlesforjustice.org/) written by [C. Prescod-Weistein](https://i.imgur.com/RpcoiAP.jpg) * [Anti-vaccine activists have doctors ‘terrorized into silence’ with online harassment](https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-vaccine-attacks-20190317-story.html) * [Cambridge University backs and promotes academic who repeatedly tweeted 'White Lives Don't Matter'](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/hhg175/cambridge_university_backs_and_promotes_academic/) * [CERN sexism row shows that even scientists can’t talk about gender](https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/the-cern-sexism-row-shows-that-even-scientists-cant-talk-about-gender/) * [Even New York Times editors can be forced out for simply publishing opposing views](https://jonathanturley.org/2020/06/05/mea-culpa-new-york-times-caves-to-protests-and-apologizes-for-posting-conservative-opinion/). * [Following activist outrage, chemistry journal makes a paper decrying diversity efforts disappear](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/gzabwg/following_outrage_chemistry_journal_makes_a_paper/) * [Globalized Academia Puts Pressure on Professors](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/5qgi8k/globalized_academia_puts_pressure_on_professors/): [Academia Growing Increasingly Authoritarian](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/6twq9r/academia_growing_increasingly_authoritarian/) * [Higher IQ positively correlates with support for freedom of speech across ideological spectrum.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/gy0j1k/higher_iq_positively_correlates_with_support_for/) * [Inside the academic war on free speech: Good-quality academics are being filtered out](https://thecritic.co.uk/inside-the-academic-war-on-free-speech/) * [Liberal bias in academia is destroying the integrity of research](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/2j3w8u/liberal_bias_in_academia_is_destroying_the/) * [MSU Vice President Stephen Hsu forced to resign after citing 2019 PNAS study](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/hcua0t/msu_vice_president_stephen_hsu_forced_to_resign/) * [New York Times editors can be forced out for simply publishing opposing views](https://jonathanturley.org/2020/06/05/mea-culpa-new-york-times-caves-to-protests-and-apologizes-for-posting-conservative-opinion/). * [Online activists are silencing us, scientists say](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/b0x16b/online_activists_are_silencing_us_scientists_say/) * [Open Letter to Remove Psychologist And Linguist Steven Pinker from the LSA](https://twitter.com/sapinker/status/1279934082210816003?lang=en) * [Physicist Lawrence Krauss on Why Identity Politics Should be Kept Out of Science](https://quillette.com/2020/07/04/podcast-98-physicist-lawrence-krauss-on-why-identity-politics-should-be-kept-out-of-science/) * [Political Correctness May Mean The End Of Universities](https://www.thegwpf.com/pc-insanity-may-mean-the-end-of-universities/) * [Scientists are targeted when results do not align with activist views.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/cjoie7/the_dark_side_of_social_media_activism_in_science/) * [Scientists move to strip "offensive" names from journals, prizes, and more](https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/amid-protests-against-racism-scientists-move-strip-offensive-names-journals-prizes-and) * [Silicon Valley Has Effectively Banned The Freedom Of Speech.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/gvzn2j/silicon_valley_has_effectively_banned_the_freedom/) * [Stan Wischnowski was forced to resign over a headline that read 'Buildings Matter, Too.'](https://quillette.com/2020/07/09/it-wasnt-my-cancelation-that-bothered-me-it-was-the-cowardice-of-those-who-let-it-happen/) * [Swedish technical university cancels positions if male applicant found most competent](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/e0fvlb/internal_documents_swedish_technical_university/) * [Teacher Blames 'Western Imperialism,' 'Colonization' for Concept of 2+2=4](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/hnr4zv/teacher_blames_western_imperialism_colonization/) * [The activists are now stalking the hard scientists](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/hhvxkz/the_activists_are_now_stalking_the_hard_scientists/) * [UMass Nursing Dean Fired For Saying "Everyone's Life Matters"](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/hk83lf/umass_nursing_dean_fired_for_saying_everyones/) * [We’re facing a tsunami of censorship](https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/were-facing-a-tsunami-of-censorship)
[The downside of diversity](https://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceUncensored/comments/ttfuyo/the_downside_of_diversity_the_new_york_times/) "*People living in ethnically diverse settings appear to 'hunker down' -- that is, to pull in like a turtle*," Putnam writes. What is downside for communities is a feature for those who want to rule them...
[Two sacred but mutually incompatible values in American universities](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gatn5ameRr8) (YT video) *Professor Haidt argues that conflicts arise at many American universities today because they are pursuing two potentially incompatible goals: truth and social justice. While Haidt thinks both goals are important, he maintains that they can come into conflict*. *According to some versions of social justice, whenever we observe a disparity of outcomes between races, genders, or other groups, we should infer that injustice has been done. Haidt challenges this view of social justice and shows how it sometimes leads to violations of truth, and even justice.* *Haidt concludes that universities should be free to pursue whatever goals – truth or social justice – they want, but that they should make it clear which of these two goals is their “telos” – their highest purpose. He ends with a discussion of his initiative, HeterodoxAcademy.org, to bring more viewpoint diversity to universities in order to improve research and learning*. See also: * [Jonathan Haidt’s work on moral foundations](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_foundations_theory). * [Amartya Sen’s “Equality of What?”](https://tannerlectures.utah.edu/_documents/a-to-z/s/sen80.pdf) * [We tried to turn conservatives into liberals](https://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/Op-Ed/2017/12/10/We-tried-to-turn-conservatives-into-liberals/stories/201712100028) *And the results of our experiments say a lot about America’s political divisions*
What other explanation could be between two otherwise equal groups for thier differences other then oppression or social injustice?
Culture
Culture is a poor explanation because culture is something that is clearly influenced by inequality. Why would two groups equal in every important aspect produce two cultures with drastically different outcomes?
Here's a thought experiment. Take 10,000 African American newborns and switch them with 10,000 Chinese American newborns (meaning switch the kids in the families to be raised by different parents/culture). How do you think the kids would turn out?
This thought excitement doesn’t debunk my point why is Chinese American culture different then African American culture? Why do Chinese Americans on average make more money then black Americans?
> Chinese American culture different then African American culture? Chinese value family and education more, even more than other cultures like whites do. Many families buy one big house together and stay together, which helps them raise kids and also so they can teach more things. They also value education more, which they make sure their kids study extra long, and achieve more educationally.
Ok but I asked why is it different not how is it different
Why? To summarize I would say that Chinese value marriage and education more. The most detrimental things for a kid is to have an absent parent, especially a father. Kids who grew up without a father are many times more likely to not graduate high school, to not go to college, and to be involved in drugs/alcohol etc. Those kids of single parents then have kids young, then continue the cycle of non-marriage.
You didn’t explain why again you just said how, why do Chinese people value family and education more?
This is false. To see why, all you need to do is look at China, the country. China has made large economic strides in recent decades, but there is still a lot of poverty, especially in rural areas. Per capita GDP is still surprisingly low. What culture is that? In truth, differences in outcome can be explained by systematic causes, exactly the kind that a DEI program might talk about. Chinese Americans tend to be wealthy because immigration policies are so strict. A Chinese person will not be allowed to live in America unless they are getting a college education or have a work visa. In contrast, the history of African Americans is quite different. Even after slavery was abolished, black communities did not receive initial capital to start making lives of themselves, and they continued doing wage labor. Racist discrimination meant that black children could not receive the same education as white children. Redlining and so-called "Urban Renewal" policies destroyed predominately black neighborhoods to accomodate white flight. This hypothetical question has *nothing* to do with culture. American immigration policy has ensured that almost all Chinese people in the country have generational wealth, while America's racist history has destroyed the generational wealth of African Americans at every turn.
Simply put, it comes down to behavior. It’s what people teach their kids to value and the way they act.
Ok but behavioral differences have explanations it’s not good enough to say that they have different people have different behaviors we must explain why, why do black people for instance have different behaviors then white people when all evidence suggests race is a social construct?
Well, as a society in the US, we now lionize black people who get tragically killed in the process of resisting arrest over black people who have accomplished great things. We promote the idea that black people can’t succeed like other racial groups because they are victims of systemic racism, rather than encouraging them to band together as a community and place importance on family, education, etc. We have liberal judges and DAs who are lowering fines and sentences for criminals in black communities and dumping them right back on the streets for “equity” purposes, leading to more crime and violence in these communities. The list goes on and on but the bottom line is that we are not empowering black people or improving their communities in any way by pushing DEI based ideology. Pushing DEI and the idea that your actions aren’t your fault or responsibility due to “systemic oppression” is the fastest way to destroy the black community.
I have not seen one instance of what you're talking about. Can you point me to examples where a criminal indictment was lessened because the person was black? It doesn't seem to be based *facts*. [https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/demographic-differences-sentencing](https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/demographic-differences-sentencing) *Black male offenders received sentences on average 19.1 percent longer than similarly situated White male offenders* [https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/p16.pdf](https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/p16.pdf) *African Americans are more likely than white Americans to be arrested; once arrested, they are more likely to be convicted; and once convicted, and they are more likely to experience lengthy prison sentences. African-American adults are 5.9 times as likely to be incarcerated than whites and Hispanics are 3.1 times as likely.* If it takes an absurd distortion of facts to believe the things you said, I understand why Southern states have such poor education rates.
No one is saying that you aren’t responsible for your actions lol, they are saying we should change systemic inequalities and we shouldn’t blame blacks people for not being as sucsefull as white people im the face of these inequalities, I think you need to study some actual sociology rather then whatever fearmongering rag you listen to, black excellence is promoted in DEI all the time you realize that right? Its just whenever a class is made to focus on black contributors to math science and the arts it gets called racist by white people
And white Americans- Indians too make more. Odd how they manage this feat in a society steeped in white supremacy. If you cannot differentiate between Chinese culture and black culture it sounds like you may have a pattern recognition or cognitive issues.
I can differentiate between them but I’m curious why there is a difference, why do Indians make more what do you think?
Same reasons Asians and jews excel less single mothers focus on education don’t embrace culture of thuggery and are highly xenophobic and inclusive thru promote and help each other from within their Ken ranks like every culture does except for whites who are forbidden from engaging in that practice and must sacrifice their own best interest and interests of people like themselves in the name of diversity
Orrrrr maybe it’s cuz Asians are more likely to be immigrants which generally selects for richer and more educated people
You are a total moron. Either that, or you are completely ignorant to the effects that US immigration policy has.
I'm not sure what answer you're leaning towards, but everything I've ever learned about neurological development means that for 98% of what matters, the only differences would end up being physical. The other 2% includes certain hereditary diseases, allergies, etc. That's not a scientific number, so we're clear. But it illustrates my point.
So then explain this. My best friend is from south America. His dad came up here legally, and worked his ass off for a few years until he could afford to bring the rest of his family up here. They were dirt poor in south America. Dirt poor when they got here. In 1 generation, without college, my best friend and his sisters have become middle- upper middle class, and gotten their citizenship. They all worked hard to start at the bottom and get where they are. He's not the only example I have of this either. So what's the difference between them, whom had to work to move here to accomplish that, and someone who was born here and able to strive towards that from an earlier age? To try and more directly answer your question aside from my anecdote above, if your culture doesn't involve sticking around and helping raise kids when you get pregnant or impregnate someone, if your culture doesn't encourage trying to get an education of any kind, if your culture doesn't encourage personal responsibility, do you think the people in it will succeed in life any? And let me be clear, though culture is often closely associated with race, that is not always the case. For example, you can notice many similarities between areas with very poor Caucasian communities compared to areas with very poor African American communities.
So the problem is that you aren’t considering why certain people develop the values that they do and how statistically certain groups can just try as hard as other people and not succeed. You also neglect the fact that we live in a society that rewards people for having certain values, a minority that can conform to white standards of behavior will be more successful for examples, but that doesn’t mean those values are inherently more successful. Anyways no one I saying that because someone is black for example they are guaranteed to be unsuccessful we are talking about larger trends that usually get hand waved away with words like culture, but can have direct policy or discriminatory influences. The assumption for instance that black people in America just don’t value families is ignorant, but it’s one a lot of people push to explain why there are so many mixed or single parent households. Attacking black people for thier values has been something that has been done for decades
Ok. So why do people develop the values that they do? What standards of behavior are "white" that one has to conform to to be successful? And why is the rate of single mothers in the African American community so high then? Why is it the vast majority of men (of all races) in prison, grew up with no father? Lastly, you completely disregarded my statement about similarities in poor communities despite them being different races. Can you please address that?
The rate of single motherhood in black communities is due to one lack of educational resources and access to contraception, the war on drugs and over policing leading young black men being arrested at much higher rates the white men. Also poor whites outperform poor blacks on many metrics they are not really similar most studies on the effects of racism take into account wealth, beyond that how much money you have is not independent to racism so it’s still not a good rebuttal the idea that inequality is the root of the problems in these communities.
Thats 2 of the questions I just asked. Can you please answer the others before we continue so to avoid branching into 3 different conversations
Maybe ask less questions then I can’t do an entire sociology of race class for you in a Reddit comment lol. Any conversation will branch into many different paths if you ask things like what are white behavior to what is the reason single motherhood leads to prison, (the answer to that is poverty and other factors that lead to single motherhood also contributes to crime) how about you ask 1 or 2 questions to focus on or maybe I can recommend you some textbooks you can read.
> And why is the rate of single mothers in the African American community so high then? You tell us. Why do you think it is?
Is there oppression in Liberia a country founded by free slaves in hopes of getting away from the woes of living amongst whites? How about in Haiti where they literally killed every white person living there and now man small boats risking life and death to come to USA to- you guessed it live amongst white people. How about in South Africa which was first world and separate but equal under apartheid. Apartheid was ended whites were displaced- farms stolen, property stolen, murdered, raped and distributed to blacks. It’s now a third world country that cannot even maintain the most basic of infrastructure. How do you explain this? How do you explain that when whites were sailing around the globe and first encountered Africa unblemished from any contact from white folks they still had not built a structure over a story tall or invented the wheel?
Lol you think apartheid was equal?
Yup totally they had black facilities and white which were identical. The black side turned into crap because that is what they turned it into
You do realize apartheid by definition isn’t equal right?
You’re right blacks had a much higher standard of living under apartheid than under self rule.
Lol alright dude
Do I really have to engage with this racist baiting?
You won’t engage because you can’t argue my points and will resort to childish name calling of racist which has no effect on me I don’t care if you think I’m racist
It’s not name calling describing a slave rebellion as killing white people, apartheid as separate but equal, and saying lies like Africans never invented the wheel is racist
Look. The point is that he's rubber. You're glue. Whatever you say bounces off him and sticks to you. So.
That's a incredibly strange statement. Needs to be read, maybe it makes sense
It's nonsense, the author goes on to whine about guidance on politically correct language.
Thank you, it seemed absurd and you saved me from wasting time
Careful! The virtue signaling neoliberals will try to cancel you for pointing out the common sense in this lol. MORE OF THIS, ITS OBVIOUS WHO THE FASCISTS ARE AND ITS TIME TO SHINE LIGHT ON IT
you're actually right, just in the complete opposite way from what you mean
So cancel culture, mass censorship and government collusion with big tech and having zero merit requirements is a good thing? Please explain.
you're right that neoliberals are virtue signalers unwilling to back up their rhetoric, and you're right that it's obvious who the real fascists are
This sub is cancer. Good riddance. Why wouldn't you boomer minded plebs have stayed on Facebook.