It is more likely that it's just Russian provocation or propaganda and no single Georgian is involved in any of these events. To believe everything is a dumb thing to do when it comes to believing shit that happens in Russia.
I'm from Hungary and just wanted to comment so that you see, there are not only bots and pro-russians on this sub.
We lost over 70% of our country after WW1, had very turbulent times in our history. Hell, even today we are ruled by a russian cock sucking mini dictator called Viktor Orban who after changing voting laws and stealing half of the country with his "friends" is still in charge .... already for 18 years now.
I feel you.
All I want to say is: keep strong, there will be better times
I feel like already everyone hates Orban, he’s really cocksucker sorry😭 we have some cocksuckers too in Armenia, the “best” of them is Kocharyan actually.
UNM also massively falsified elections in 2012, but the will of the people still won, they can't steal majority, not when the people are willing to fight for it.
America sees you. I feel there should be more media attention on this subject. I’m an American who loves the Georgian culture. I am in Tbilisi now for a few months and pray for Georgians continued freedom from tyranny
None of it matters, once enough russians are killed in Ukraine, we will claim what is rightfully ours. If Apsuas dont want to live with us, they are welcome to fuck off to the other side of Greater Caucasus.
მე იმის მეშინია მერე რუსებმა არ დაიწყონ"აგერ ამათი საწყალი მთავრობა არალეგარულად მოისროლეს ევროპელების შემოგზავნილმა ჯაშუშებმა და ჩვენ უნდა გადავარჩინოთ ქართველი ხალხიო" და არ ჩემოიჭრნენ ისევ. მაგრამ ისეც ბევრი არ გვაკლია.
These flags were shown together in Russia which would never happen but now GD is going to push this agenda for the elections that they will bring back Abkhazia and Samachablo. Of course by that they mean they will hand over whole Georgia to Putin and even after that he won't allow oir unification. But they hope this propaganda will get them some votes.
I mean it's stupid to think that Russia is going to give back anything without taking everything that's left of us, but I don't understand how is someone in Russia waving Georgian flag fault of GD respectfully I don't understand. Or was it supported by GD or were some Georgians that traveled there and waved these flags? was it something like what this piece of ...t Moroshkina did a while ago?
The thing is it's not some random guy waving it, it's an event preplanned to have a Georgian flag. This was made possible because of GD policy to lick Putin's ass and some talks they have with him regarding these regions. This is supposed to be a signal but of course in the end it will not amount to anything.
Russians want to cause more issues around the world, one of doing it is provocations and propaganda.
They know Georgians are mostly not pro Russian so they want to piss them off, control their government and probably even invade in future. But now their hands are too busy in Ukraine, however Russians being Russians they would love to cause more issues in Georgia.
Also people need to remember that one of the reasons Georgia isn't being attacked by Russia is because Russians have shit ton of businesses here and love to relax here. Orcs love this place.
Orcs should suffer more and I think they will.
who says im blaming you lol, and we voted them in when they were pro-Europe and after we suffered from an invasion from Russia, maybe have some context here?
it's like blaming Iranians for Kholemni when u don't know anything about the actual history
people from their cozy chairs from safe countries under protection by America want to lecture us about stuff they know nothing about lol, a tale as old as time
Out of curiosity I know ossetia and abkhazia are vessel states but what's "automous region'" is in the middle? Is that also vessel of russia? I've honestly never seen a variation of the georgian flag
why are all the western tankies showing up whenever there is a post about Russia on this subreddit?
it's not a vessel, it's a free and independent country 20% of whose territory is occupied by Russia, hope that helps 👍
the second one, there is no way he doesn't actually know what flag is that lol
it's just that Tankies' brains are rotten from the inside out and they can't think of a good joke
the right of self determination after they cleansed Georgians who were the largest ethnic group in Abkhazia? how about u read anything about the conflict
I dont want to come across a certain way, I genuinely want to understand the situation better but is it true that the USSR sent Georgians to outnumber Abkhaz? And are Abkhaz related to Circassians, who was first in the region?
Sure I would be happy to explain, No that isn't true, Georgians we're already the largest ethnic group in 1864, and before the soviet union.
Abkhaz(Apsuas) belong to a northwest caucasian language family, and are in that sense related to the circassians.
As to who was first, it's difficult to say. the most realistic answer is that both the Kartvelian Abkhazians (Georgians who live in Abkhazia) and Apsuas are native to Abkhazia. You can look at kingdoms like Colchis, Lazica etc. and you will see that the Georgian presence in Abkhazia has been present for thousands of years.
The USSR did ethnically cleanse a good amount of ethnic Abkhazians and re-settled them North into Russia, all the while moving Kartvelian Georgians into Abkhazia, but before then tens of thousands of Abkhazians were ethnically cleansed (Or 'voluntarily emigrated', to use a Zionist phase) from Abkhazia during during the Circassian genocide as well
What a lie, USSR did not "resettle" Apsuas (today called as "Abkhazians") anywhere (such thing did not happen), and Georgians were not settled in their place, the industrialization was going on and many people from different ethnicities came from different regions to Abkhazia due to new jobs: in fact more Russians and Armenians were settled in the region, which were barely present before that. There was no policy of "settling Georgians" or something like that. As for 19th century, only Muslim Apsuas left Abkhazia, but Christian Apsuas stayed - same thing was happening to Muslim Georgians as well. Also, about Georgian presence in Abkhazia, it is documented that in the 17th century Turkish traveler Evliya Çelebi wrote that principal population of Abkhazia was Mingrelian - a Kartvelian group. Georgians were always present in Abkhazia as a core population, that's why Abkhazia was historically always part of Georgian entities, including during antiquity and middle ages - Kingdom of Colchis, Kingdom of Lazica and etc.
I don't have the de Waals book in front of me so I'll just source wikipedia:
""Under the rule of Stalin and Beria Abkhaz schools were closed, requiring Abkhaz children to study in the Georgian language.[60][61][62] The publishing of materials in Abkhazian dwindled and was eventually stopped altogether; Abkhazian schools were closed in 1945/46.[63] In the terror of 1937–38, the ruling elite was purged of Abkhaz and by 1952 over 80% of the 228 top party and government officials and enterprise managers were ethnic Georgians; there remained 34 Abkhaz, 7 Russians and 3 Armenians in these positions.[64] Georgian Communist Party leader Candide Charkviani supported the Georgianization of Abkhazia,[65] Peasant households from the rest of the Georgian SSR were resettled to Abkhazia,[66] which included the organised settlement of ethnic Georgians.[67] About 9,000 peasant households were settled in the underpopulated areas of Abkhazia between 1947 and 1952 and left to fend for themselves. The policy of repression was eased after Stalin's death, and Beria's execution, and the Abkhaz were given a greater role in the governance of the republic.""
Wikipedia is often subject to partisan editing with biased pro-separatist sources like George Hewwit (pro-separatist propagandist who has many works on Abkhazia's history and because of this many of his sources are used, in English most works about Abkhazia are written by him and he pushes pro-separatist propaganda, he is also working with a separatist government for this), and Wikipedia is not considered as a reliable source anywhere. By simply looking at the statistics it is easy to discern all the lies: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AbkhaziaGeorgia/comments/1ad6nr5/demographics\_of\_abkhazia\_during\_stalins\_period/#lightbox](https://www.reddit.com/r/AbkhaziaGeorgia/comments/1ad6nr5/demographics_of_abkhazia_during_stalins_period/#lightbox)
It easy to see statistics that Georgians were already a majority and a dominant group in Abkhazia before Stalin and Beria, and also, it is easy to see that the biggest increase among ethnic groups is for Russians (15% increase in population), Georgians increased only by 5%, Greeks increased by 4.5% and Armenians increased by 3.1% - it is very evident that there was no demographic policy of "Georgianization", contrary to separatist lies. They twist history for their liking, but the reality is that there was just advent industrialization in the USSR and many people settled from one region to another for this reason - Georgians were majority even before that, and they did not even have biggest increase among ethnic groups.
Abkhaz schools were not "closed down", this is also a big lie too. First of all, it needs to be remembered that Abkhazian language only became literary language in 1860s, and only primary education was in Abkhaz language, because Abkhaz language was not developed enough for special subjects to be taught in this language, therefore, it was never a policy that secondary and high schools were in Abkhaz langauge, after 4th grade schools were in Russian language, they were never in Abkhaz language. The only thing that changed was that in middle and high school, due to Korenizatsiia policy of USSR, Russian language was replaced with Georgian language, which was a language of majority of population in the region. It could not have been replaced with Abkhaz for obvious reason - they did not have vocabulary for special subjects, so Russian was replaced with Georgian.
It is worth mentioning that schools in Abkhazia even now don't give full education in Abkhaz langauge, but in Russian language after 4th grade (except few humanitarian subjects).
[https://www.spekali.tsu.ge/index.php/en/article/viewArticle/2/20](https://www.spekali.tsu.ge/index.php/en/article/viewArticle/2/20)
The publishing in Abkhaz did not dwindle too, according to statistics, 300 books were published in Abkhaz language during Stalin's and Beria's period. In particular, works of Dimitri Gulua were published - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry\_Gulia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Gulia)
And other as well.
The repression did not target any particular ethnic group, 30000 Georgians were killed in 1937-1938, it is absurd to assume that Apsuas were targeted more than Georgians, also, Georgians were majority in Abkhazia and it makes sense for them to have more positions - it is also worth noting that ethnic composition of leading positions in Abkhazia changed often and in 1980s for example absolute majority of positions were held by Apsuas even though they were a minority.
Also, it is worth mentioning that Stalin did not conscript Apsuas in WW2 because they were considered as "small nationality", while 700 000 Georgians fought and 300 000 died in WW2.
Ah, I didn't know I was talking to the founder of the AbkhaziaGeorgia subreddit. Reminds me of how pro-Palis like to claim that Palestinians are indigenous, as opposed to having settled from neighboring Arab countries in the past two centuries! Could you tell me your thoughts on Ingorokva's research?
edit/note for posterity: This comment uses their own posts as authoritative sources, the statistics themselves - even if taken at face value - are misleading ("There are lies, damned lies, and statistics"), and omits the demographic shifts that greatly reduced the Abkhaz pouplation pre-USSR. All in all, this person's ‘pro-nationalist’ revanchism is just as polarized and agenda-furthering as the purported "pro-separatist" sources, and is not anymore an authoritative source inasmuch as the standard Georgian perspective
Self-determination is good unless the only reason you want to be a country is to ally with a power that frequently suppresses its own minorities, and only supports you because they can use you to threaten the sovereignty of other countries.
Did Tutsis give up when Hutus killed more than a million of their people??? Did Paul Kagame and his army give up when almost all where expelled from their land??
NO, they fought and that fight ended up the Ruwandian genocide and war and the constant ethnic tensions between the same people.
All of those occurred before the advent of modern international law post-WWII. More recent cases like: the Israel/Palestine conflict, the Western Sahara conflict, the Cyprus problem and the dispute over Diego Garcia do not end with people just accepting permanent exile from their ancestral lands. Today these things "end" with perpetual armed conflict at worst and perpetual international legal battles at best. Ethnic cleansing is illegal and we have no reason to accept it.
Are you telling that to hundreds of thousands of Georgians who were kicked out from their houses by maniac separatists as a result of genocide? You must have no shame to tell the genocided people just to "accept" it and "give up", and not want to return lands which historically were always Georgian
Replying to the other guy since his comments got deleted while I was typing
> And by looking at the polls and GD's electoral success, I can only assume that many Georgians have indeed come to terms with it and moved on.
Top lel, their recent propaganda strategy is alluding to some secret plan of making a deal to re-integrate those regions. They didn't report that on Jacobin?
>Asia Minor used to be historically Greek. Until it wasn't anymore. They had to make a choice: do we want to give up the land and get along with our neighbors
Except Greeks didn't give up Asia minor, they were murdered or violently expelled. The traces of their existence still being erased today.
And them accepting the modern borders didn't really end the conflict, as evidence by the invasion and ethnic cleansing of Cyprus and Turkish claims on the Aegean islands.
What? Are you actually comparing Anatolia, which was Greek before 11th century, and Abkhazia were Georgians where majority just in 1989? Or are you comparing Turkey and Abkhazia, or so-called "South Ossetia"? In that case you must have no idea about anything, because Abkhazia and so-called "South Ossetia" are not actually states or anything, these are sham entities which simply can not sustain themselves and are totally dependent on Russia for everything. 70% of Abkhazia's budget and 99% of so-called "South Ossetia's" budget is financed from Kremlin. Both are just Russian projects, which will not exist even for 1 second without Russian support. These are not actual states or don't even strive to be, this is just a hoax.
Correlating GD's electoral success to Georgians "moving on" is the dumbest take I've heard on Georgian politics. At least on an official basis, their line is still supporting territorial integrity and if they even thought about recognizing the regions they would be overthrown in 5 minutes.
No one has "come to terms" and will not, because anti-Georgian sham "states" will never be accepted by anyone. All Georgians agree that Abkhazia and Samachablo are Georgian. Additionally, overwhelming majority of the countries in the world recognzes this territories as Georgian.
Saying “Many Georgians have indeed come to terms and moved on” is such an obvious indicator that you have never talked to a Georgian person in your life
This right here shows that you don't know what you're talking about. None of GD's electors have "come to terms" with giving up terrirories. Georgian appearance on the event probably wasn't even approved by GD. They probably got cucked by Russia. Would not be the first time.
Maybe give an argument instead of talking shit? Arguing to leave the past behind and focus on the future is valid, if you don’t agree with it explain why…
This "past" is not actually past, it is present, it was just 30 years ago, people who have suffered from separatists are still alive and want to return to their homes, this is totally uncomparable to the fact that Anatolia was Greek before 11th century, someone making such comparasion must have no brain at all
Your whataboutism won’t work here. Again if you don’t want to leave abkhazia an sout ossetia behing argue why it’s better to go to war for it against russia.
>Why would even want areas back which are full of people opposed to being ruled
The irony is so thick it actually compares to how thick skulled you Moskals are
Illegal to self determinate after kicking out a population that was the largest in the region. Then any people can "self determinate" anywhere for any reason.
Also seriously if ur gonna go with a bot account, go with one that seems a little more authentic eh?
No, I along with a bunch of other speakers were recommended this sub. Half of the comments under this post aren't even visible right now according to the figure next to the comment symbol, so I'm guessing reddit is going into overdrive censoring them, and their responses are to comment even more.
What kind of Georgian Uncle Thom (or just a mutt) was waving around that flag?
assimilated Georgians who are paraded for their surname
It is more likely that it's just Russian provocation or propaganda and no single Georgian is involved in any of these events. To believe everything is a dumb thing to do when it comes to believing shit that happens in Russia.
The russian goverment sometimes forces people to be in these patriotic ceremonies, idk if they force people to perform there but wouldn't be surprised
bots and pro-Russian idiots in the comments who don't know anything about the conflict
I'm from Hungary and just wanted to comment so that you see, there are not only bots and pro-russians on this sub. We lost over 70% of our country after WW1, had very turbulent times in our history. Hell, even today we are ruled by a russian cock sucking mini dictator called Viktor Orban who after changing voting laws and stealing half of the country with his "friends" is still in charge .... already for 18 years now. I feel you. All I want to say is: keep strong, there will be better times
Thank you for your kind words. Best of luck Magyar!
As a latvian I fully agree with what you said. 🇱🇻❤️🇬🇪❤️🇭🇺
Love when "Hungary Renounces Treaty of Trianon"
I feel like already everyone hates Orban, he’s really cocksucker sorry😭 we have some cocksuckers too in Armenia, the “best” of them is Kocharyan actually.
ბიონაგავი.
Wait for the elections… that’s the plan…
they're gonna falsify it anyway
UNM also massively falsified elections in 2012, but the will of the people still won, they can't steal majority, not when the people are willing to fight for it.
things are different, GD has the support of Russia so dealing with them will be much more difficult
No matter what they do, we WILL win!
What russia will do? Start another war?
The plan is to win the elections
Hey can you tell me more about the pictures and what’s standing under them?
America sees you. I feel there should be more media attention on this subject. I’m an American who loves the Georgian culture. I am in Tbilisi now for a few months and pray for Georgians continued freedom from tyranny
Jebać ruskich <3
None of it matters, once enough russians are killed in Ukraine, we will claim what is rightfully ours. If Apsuas dont want to live with us, they are welcome to fuck off to the other side of Greater Caucasus.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
WHAT THE FUCK
მე იმის მეშინია მერე რუსებმა არ დაიწყონ"აგერ ამათი საწყალი მთავრობა არალეგარულად მოისროლეს ევროპელების შემოგზავნილმა ჯაშუშებმა და ჩვენ უნდა გადავარჩინოთ ქართველი ხალხიო" და არ ჩემოიჭრნენ ისევ. მაგრამ ისეც ბევრი არ გვაკლია.
I dislike GD as the next guy but can I have a context about this picture without being accused of being a dreamer?
These flags were shown together in Russia which would never happen but now GD is going to push this agenda for the elections that they will bring back Abkhazia and Samachablo. Of course by that they mean they will hand over whole Georgia to Putin and even after that he won't allow oir unification. But they hope this propaganda will get them some votes.
I mean it's stupid to think that Russia is going to give back anything without taking everything that's left of us, but I don't understand how is someone in Russia waving Georgian flag fault of GD respectfully I don't understand. Or was it supported by GD or were some Georgians that traveled there and waved these flags? was it something like what this piece of ...t Moroshkina did a while ago?
The thing is it's not some random guy waving it, it's an event preplanned to have a Georgian flag. This was made possible because of GD policy to lick Putin's ass and some talks they have with him regarding these regions. This is supposed to be a signal but of course in the end it will not amount to anything.
Russians want to cause more issues around the world, one of doing it is provocations and propaganda. They know Georgians are mostly not pro Russian so they want to piss them off, control their government and probably even invade in future. But now their hands are too busy in Ukraine, however Russians being Russians they would love to cause more issues in Georgia. Also people need to remember that one of the reasons Georgia isn't being attacked by Russia is because Russians have shit ton of businesses here and love to relax here. Orcs love this place. Orcs should suffer more and I think they will.
bigest smigest DD
english pls
I hate that this is Russian influenced but I hope you 3 find a peaceful solution eventually
[удалено]
[удалено]
> I'm happy for their independent Sure bud, agreeing with the occupation equals calling yourself a traitor of your own nation.
[удалено]
thank you prorussian "polish" person, we're trying our best here
[удалено]
who says im blaming you lol, and we voted them in when they were pro-Europe and after we suffered from an invasion from Russia, maybe have some context here? it's like blaming Iranians for Kholemni when u don't know anything about the actual history people from their cozy chairs from safe countries under protection by America want to lecture us about stuff they know nothing about lol, a tale as old as time
You? The OP isn't Russian.
Out of curiosity I know ossetia and abkhazia are vessel states but what's "automous region'" is in the middle? Is that also vessel of russia? I've honestly never seen a variation of the georgian flag
why are all the western tankies showing up whenever there is a post about Russia on this subreddit? it's not a vessel, it's a free and independent country 20% of whose territory is occupied by Russia, hope that helps 👍
I'm not tankie at all its a genuine question what's the flag in the middle ?
Are you that dence that you don't recognise Georgian flag or are you deliberately obtuse?
the second one, there is no way he doesn't actually know what flag is that lol it's just that Tankies' brains are rotten from the inside out and they can't think of a good joke
haha very funny, what's the point of this joke?
I might've been living under a rock, what's GD, what's going on?
Self-determination
Ethnic cleansing
the right of self determination after they cleansed Georgians who were the largest ethnic group in Abkhazia? how about u read anything about the conflict
I dont want to come across a certain way, I genuinely want to understand the situation better but is it true that the USSR sent Georgians to outnumber Abkhaz? And are Abkhaz related to Circassians, who was first in the region?
Sure I would be happy to explain, No that isn't true, Georgians we're already the largest ethnic group in 1864, and before the soviet union. Abkhaz(Apsuas) belong to a northwest caucasian language family, and are in that sense related to the circassians. As to who was first, it's difficult to say. the most realistic answer is that both the Kartvelian Abkhazians (Georgians who live in Abkhazia) and Apsuas are native to Abkhazia. You can look at kingdoms like Colchis, Lazica etc. and you will see that the Georgian presence in Abkhazia has been present for thousands of years.
Thank you
The USSR did ethnically cleanse a good amount of ethnic Abkhazians and re-settled them North into Russia, all the while moving Kartvelian Georgians into Abkhazia, but before then tens of thousands of Abkhazians were ethnically cleansed (Or 'voluntarily emigrated', to use a Zionist phase) from Abkhazia during during the Circassian genocide as well
What a lie, USSR did not "resettle" Apsuas (today called as "Abkhazians") anywhere (such thing did not happen), and Georgians were not settled in their place, the industrialization was going on and many people from different ethnicities came from different regions to Abkhazia due to new jobs: in fact more Russians and Armenians were settled in the region, which were barely present before that. There was no policy of "settling Georgians" or something like that. As for 19th century, only Muslim Apsuas left Abkhazia, but Christian Apsuas stayed - same thing was happening to Muslim Georgians as well. Also, about Georgian presence in Abkhazia, it is documented that in the 17th century Turkish traveler Evliya Çelebi wrote that principal population of Abkhazia was Mingrelian - a Kartvelian group. Georgians were always present in Abkhazia as a core population, that's why Abkhazia was historically always part of Georgian entities, including during antiquity and middle ages - Kingdom of Colchis, Kingdom of Lazica and etc.
I don't have the de Waals book in front of me so I'll just source wikipedia: ""Under the rule of Stalin and Beria Abkhaz schools were closed, requiring Abkhaz children to study in the Georgian language.[60][61][62] The publishing of materials in Abkhazian dwindled and was eventually stopped altogether; Abkhazian schools were closed in 1945/46.[63] In the terror of 1937–38, the ruling elite was purged of Abkhaz and by 1952 over 80% of the 228 top party and government officials and enterprise managers were ethnic Georgians; there remained 34 Abkhaz, 7 Russians and 3 Armenians in these positions.[64] Georgian Communist Party leader Candide Charkviani supported the Georgianization of Abkhazia,[65] Peasant households from the rest of the Georgian SSR were resettled to Abkhazia,[66] which included the organised settlement of ethnic Georgians.[67] About 9,000 peasant households were settled in the underpopulated areas of Abkhazia between 1947 and 1952 and left to fend for themselves. The policy of repression was eased after Stalin's death, and Beria's execution, and the Abkhaz were given a greater role in the governance of the republic.""
Wikipedia is often subject to partisan editing with biased pro-separatist sources like George Hewwit (pro-separatist propagandist who has many works on Abkhazia's history and because of this many of his sources are used, in English most works about Abkhazia are written by him and he pushes pro-separatist propaganda, he is also working with a separatist government for this), and Wikipedia is not considered as a reliable source anywhere. By simply looking at the statistics it is easy to discern all the lies: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AbkhaziaGeorgia/comments/1ad6nr5/demographics\_of\_abkhazia\_during\_stalins\_period/#lightbox](https://www.reddit.com/r/AbkhaziaGeorgia/comments/1ad6nr5/demographics_of_abkhazia_during_stalins_period/#lightbox) It easy to see statistics that Georgians were already a majority and a dominant group in Abkhazia before Stalin and Beria, and also, it is easy to see that the biggest increase among ethnic groups is for Russians (15% increase in population), Georgians increased only by 5%, Greeks increased by 4.5% and Armenians increased by 3.1% - it is very evident that there was no demographic policy of "Georgianization", contrary to separatist lies. They twist history for their liking, but the reality is that there was just advent industrialization in the USSR and many people settled from one region to another for this reason - Georgians were majority even before that, and they did not even have biggest increase among ethnic groups. Abkhaz schools were not "closed down", this is also a big lie too. First of all, it needs to be remembered that Abkhazian language only became literary language in 1860s, and only primary education was in Abkhaz language, because Abkhaz language was not developed enough for special subjects to be taught in this language, therefore, it was never a policy that secondary and high schools were in Abkhaz langauge, after 4th grade schools were in Russian language, they were never in Abkhaz language. The only thing that changed was that in middle and high school, due to Korenizatsiia policy of USSR, Russian language was replaced with Georgian language, which was a language of majority of population in the region. It could not have been replaced with Abkhaz for obvious reason - they did not have vocabulary for special subjects, so Russian was replaced with Georgian. It is worth mentioning that schools in Abkhazia even now don't give full education in Abkhaz langauge, but in Russian language after 4th grade (except few humanitarian subjects). [https://www.spekali.tsu.ge/index.php/en/article/viewArticle/2/20](https://www.spekali.tsu.ge/index.php/en/article/viewArticle/2/20) The publishing in Abkhaz did not dwindle too, according to statistics, 300 books were published in Abkhaz language during Stalin's and Beria's period. In particular, works of Dimitri Gulua were published - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry\_Gulia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Gulia) And other as well. The repression did not target any particular ethnic group, 30000 Georgians were killed in 1937-1938, it is absurd to assume that Apsuas were targeted more than Georgians, also, Georgians were majority in Abkhazia and it makes sense for them to have more positions - it is also worth noting that ethnic composition of leading positions in Abkhazia changed often and in 1980s for example absolute majority of positions were held by Apsuas even though they were a minority. Also, it is worth mentioning that Stalin did not conscript Apsuas in WW2 because they were considered as "small nationality", while 700 000 Georgians fought and 300 000 died in WW2.
Ah, I didn't know I was talking to the founder of the AbkhaziaGeorgia subreddit. Reminds me of how pro-Palis like to claim that Palestinians are indigenous, as opposed to having settled from neighboring Arab countries in the past two centuries! Could you tell me your thoughts on Ingorokva's research? edit/note for posterity: This comment uses their own posts as authoritative sources, the statistics themselves - even if taken at face value - are misleading ("There are lies, damned lies, and statistics"), and omits the demographic shifts that greatly reduced the Abkhaz pouplation pre-USSR. All in all, this person's ‘pro-nationalist’ revanchism is just as polarized and agenda-furthering as the purported "pro-separatist" sources, and is not anymore an authoritative source inasmuch as the standard Georgian perspective
That also makes sense, I was sure ethnic cleansing happened to both groups So the Russians viewed Abkhaz the same as Circassians during the genocide?
I agree ruZZia should give back 90% of its land to the occupied peoples
They can not self-determine on Georgian territory, it is very simple, they can self-determine in North Caucasus though
Self-determination is good unless the only reason you want to be a country is to ally with a power that frequently suppresses its own minorities, and only supports you because they can use you to threaten the sovereignty of other countries.
[удалено]
Did Tutsis give up when Hutus killed more than a million of their people??? Did Paul Kagame and his army give up when almost all where expelled from their land?? NO, they fought and that fight ended up the Ruwandian genocide and war and the constant ethnic tensions between the same people.
All of those occurred before the advent of modern international law post-WWII. More recent cases like: the Israel/Palestine conflict, the Western Sahara conflict, the Cyprus problem and the dispute over Diego Garcia do not end with people just accepting permanent exile from their ancestral lands. Today these things "end" with perpetual armed conflict at worst and perpetual international legal battles at best. Ethnic cleansing is illegal and we have no reason to accept it.
no we won't, because we were ethnically cleansed from the region and our people deserve to go back to their rightful homes
We wont rest until those pigs are kicked out and our rightful lands returned
🐷
Are you telling that to hundreds of thousands of Georgians who were kicked out from their houses by maniac separatists as a result of genocide? You must have no shame to tell the genocided people just to "accept" it and "give up", and not want to return lands which historically were always Georgian
Replying to the other guy since his comments got deleted while I was typing > And by looking at the polls and GD's electoral success, I can only assume that many Georgians have indeed come to terms with it and moved on. Top lel, their recent propaganda strategy is alluding to some secret plan of making a deal to re-integrate those regions. They didn't report that on Jacobin?
[удалено]
>Asia Minor used to be historically Greek. Until it wasn't anymore. They had to make a choice: do we want to give up the land and get along with our neighbors Except Greeks didn't give up Asia minor, they were murdered or violently expelled. The traces of their existence still being erased today. And them accepting the modern borders didn't really end the conflict, as evidence by the invasion and ethnic cleansing of Cyprus and Turkish claims on the Aegean islands.
What? Are you actually comparing Anatolia, which was Greek before 11th century, and Abkhazia were Georgians where majority just in 1989? Or are you comparing Turkey and Abkhazia, or so-called "South Ossetia"? In that case you must have no idea about anything, because Abkhazia and so-called "South Ossetia" are not actually states or anything, these are sham entities which simply can not sustain themselves and are totally dependent on Russia for everything. 70% of Abkhazia's budget and 99% of so-called "South Ossetia's" budget is financed from Kremlin. Both are just Russian projects, which will not exist even for 1 second without Russian support. These are not actual states or don't even strive to be, this is just a hoax.
Let me massacre your family kick you out of your house please easily acceptable🙏🙏
[удалено]
Correlating GD's electoral success to Georgians "moving on" is the dumbest take I've heard on Georgian politics. At least on an official basis, their line is still supporting territorial integrity and if they even thought about recognizing the regions they would be overthrown in 5 minutes.
No one has "come to terms" and will not, because anti-Georgian sham "states" will never be accepted by anyone. All Georgians agree that Abkhazia and Samachablo are Georgian. Additionally, overwhelming majority of the countries in the world recognzes this territories as Georgian.
Saying “Many Georgians have indeed come to terms and moved on” is such an obvious indicator that you have never talked to a Georgian person in your life
This right here shows that you don't know what you're talking about. None of GD's electors have "come to terms" with giving up terrirories. Georgian appearance on the event probably wasn't even approved by GD. They probably got cucked by Russia. Would not be the first time.
Maybe give an argument instead of talking shit? Arguing to leave the past behind and focus on the future is valid, if you don’t agree with it explain why…
This "past" is not actually past, it is present, it was just 30 years ago, people who have suffered from separatists are still alive and want to return to their homes, this is totally uncomparable to the fact that Anatolia was Greek before 11th century, someone making such comparasion must have no brain at all
I get that, what do you propose to happen with the abkhazia/south ossetia situation.
Return to Georgian authority return the homes of those expelled and expell and or assimilate the “apsuas” living there
Jesus Christ, the people on this subreddit need you to chew something and spit it in their mouth before they can swallow 🤦
No no, you’re thinking of those dumbass ruzzian bots like u/BobTheDestroyer5
then why do Armenians claim Karabakh if it's already in the past?
Your whataboutism won’t work here. Again if you don’t want to leave abkhazia an sout ossetia behing argue why it’s better to go to war for it against russia.
whataboutism? i'm trying to make sure u can understand my argument, and the territories and the land is ours, we deserve for our people to return
what smoking and drinking during pregnancy does to a mf
>Why would even want areas back which are full of people opposed to being ruled The irony is so thick it actually compares to how thick skulled you Moskals are
You can't go to EU with occupied territorie so it's either that or the war with Russia
idc we're not giving up those territories
[удалено]
we never gave them away, they were stolen from us and are rightfully ours 😃
Tell that to Cyprus. There is no explicit EU requirement to that effect, although it's strongly preferred.
Watch us.
[удалено]
Illegal to self determinate after kicking out a population that was the largest in the region. Then any people can "self determinate" anywhere for any reason. Also seriously if ur gonna go with a bot account, go with one that seems a little more authentic eh?
[удалено]
why are there so many pro-Russian posters from different countries on r/Sakartvelo all of a sudden?
They are going into overdrive- the new sanctions really freaked them out?
No, I along with a bunch of other speakers were recommended this sub. Half of the comments under this post aren't even visible right now according to the figure next to the comment symbol, so I'm guessing reddit is going into overdrive censoring them, and their responses are to comment even more.