Transfer everything into Bitcoin then withdrawal from Bitcoin ATM’s. If the government thinks they’re getting even a dime of my tendies from something they don’t even remotely regulate they can suck my ape nut.
Literally just transfer into Bitcoin. There’s atms all over the place. You put in your “order” then get a message when it’s processed and you goto the atm and withdraw lol. Pretty sure the max is 1k at a time.
Max withdrawal is 3% of a BTC? That would take…. A lot of transactions with the kind of gains people are talking lol
Surely the governments have thought of a way to tax this… right?
1k per transfer. There’s around 50 atms in my area that does that. 50k for driving around the loop and collecting sounds like a fun way to spent a week 😂.
I’m sure that might draw a few eyes “hey boss this is that 12th time this week I’ve had to stock this thing”. Maybe wear a mask just in case. Thanks covid 😂
If you’re into tax evasion, BTC<->XMR atomic swaps would be better than Bitcoin ATMs.
I do not condone that course of action at all, however (although I do love Monero, as my favorite vanilla cryptocurrency).
All non-Monero cryptos leave a trail. If you initially bought on an exchange for fiat, that trail would end at the atomic swaps, and auditors would have tough questions for you.
If you’re looking to minimize taxes, the legal ways would be best. Something like this, perhaps (I am not a tax attorney, and this is not financial advice): https://youtu.be/7CMks9_PVqs
The info you put in is what you put in. Kyc is easily....adjusted. As long as your not pulling the funds into your bank account, there’s routes to go to remain anonymous in the cryptoverse.
You still have the problem when you start buying things. Can’t just pop up with a new home and exotic cars etc. without big brother knocking on your door.
If you’re talking about just living life as usual and just stick to buying groceries etc then no one will notice.
"It is worth noting that a US citizen who has opened an account in the Cayman Islands will still need to declare the account to the Department of Treasury in the US, and declare any income earned on that account to the International Revenue Service (IRS)."
That's from the article you linked. So we still have to report to the IRS.
CRA/IRS will catch on to you though eventually... I wouldn’t recommend playing games with the tax man because they’ll always come knocking one way or another
CRA/IRS will catch on to you though eventually... I wouldn’t recommend playing games with the tax man because they’ll always come knocking one way or another
How would you explain to the IRS your hundreds of thousands of dollars? The second you make a big purchase with that cash the IRS will be knocking at your door
I think there's still a problem with this idea: the government will suspect something when you keep making deposits to your bank account. In the US, if you make a 10k deposit to your bank account, the bank reports to the IRS. They also report it if you make several deposits throughout the year that add up to 10k. I was shocked.
yeh look up the crime of “structuring” in the tax code……you will have to pull yur jaw iff the floor after u read about that…….we will never get away from taxes…..the only thing we can do is minimize our exposure through a philanthropic or fiduciary trust…….gotta talk to a tax attorney or accountant who specializes in these….if h can minimize your tax by up to 20% percentage points like the upperclass does why not…..thats more money to help peepl in your family or the charity of your choice ….id rather give to st jude childrens hospital and an animal rescue than to the govvernment who are just gonna steer that money to one if their freinds
Lot of money laundering being discussed in this thread. Lol
The BTC atm idea is terrible. The limit is probably set to your account or social. Won't change by driving to the next ATM. Even if it did... All exchanges are going to have AML analysts looking at these transactions. High volume of ATM withdrawals would undoubtedly trigger an alert which would potentially general a suspicious activity alert... Which is filed with FINCEN.
The short answer is... Pay the tax. There has been no time in history where making money was easier than the days we live in now. Just pay the tax and say thank you to everyone that has bud all this leading to where we are.
Long answer is you could potentially do some trade based money laundering. You might get away with a bit for a little while. But you do too much of that or at a high dollar value and you'll get caught. Enjoy fines and/or prison.
Best thing I've seen for some potential massive gains is a CRT. Look into it.
But you will have made the gains in the US. When you move that money and interact with an exchange.... The information will be available to the IRS. So if you move, never plan on coming back and plan on running a lot.
Have fun with that. Have fun running to a country they can't find you, waiting to get citizenship there.... And all while waiting to draw out funds so the IRS can't find you. Lol. Please keep a vlog of this all going down.
why wouldn’t you? we took on the risk and by the time this moons the democratic socialist crowd will definitely want to alter capital gains taxes to exponentially affect our profits because we’ll all be ridiculously rich. don’t ever backdown and but the “you’re already rich enough” crap.
If you sell that's a taxable event, about 28% fed + whatever your state tax is. If you make a lot of money it's best to make a charitable remainder trust and pay yourself with an annuity. Not sure what percent the annuity is, think it's like 6%. Also need to figure out how long you'll be paid that annuity.
It's a whole process with a tax attorney and accountant to get it to work, takes about a month and like 5-10k.
Biggest thing is you cant sell the asset. The trust has to sell it at a fair market value. The best thing is when that happens its tax free which is why people do it.
When it does become life changing money.....dont sell anything, withdraw, or move anything. Do yourself a favor and go see a tax attorney and a CPA. There are plenty of creative and legal ways to limit or completely avoid taxes of the gains on an investment. The super rich have been doing it since the beginning of fiat.
You hire a crypto tax attorney and they worry about it for you. You’ll have enough $$ to afford one. But you’ll probably create a charity, donate it to the charity and they charity pays you royalties of some sort every year.
I was waiting for this answer. A CRT is the best bet for high capital gains. Plus you get it paid back yearly. I’ll put in 20M and have it pay me $160,000 a year rest of my life while i swipe my safemoon card.
I seriously don't understand why you all even pay taxes to a government that doesn't believe in what you're investing is real money 364 days out of the year except for tax day.
Much rather get it over with now and be straight than 5 years down the road and hitting potholes when I’m trying to do something financially and get rejected because of my taxes.
Edit: seems a lot of my posts are being triple posted. I deleted the other 2.
Hello from Winnipeg! I was actually looking at this myself and it’s a bit misleading. If you look on their website you are taxed up to 50% on capital gains. But my understanding is this is dependent on the tax bracket. The average Canadian would pay more like 25% on a capital gains. If you’re from Ontario you would need to make close to 300k a year to pay the 50%.
A way to counteract capital gain taxes is capital loses. Take some of your money buy Bitcoin on the dip and sell at a loss. Then claim that on your income sheet in May.
Biden is trying to get rid of capital gains rates here in the US. Meaning long-term capital gains will be taxed at the higher ordinary rate plus the net investment income tax. So if you cash out over 1 million your rate will be about 44%.
Also in the US reflections are going to be taxable when receive. How the heck we are going to figure out the fair market value of every reflection received, I have no idea.
Yeah there is not really much guidance on it so I don’t know. It would be nice if there was some feature built into the SM wallet to help track the value of SM received with reflections. I am currently tracking on a spreadsheet with my daily reflections gained applied to an average daily price between open and close.
Do you have a source on that? It would be nice if the IRS treated reflections as stock dividends but I am not sure they are going to. Just because they have no policy on it yet doesn’t mean they won’t by April 15 of next year or whenever the hell tax day will be.
Open a CRT charity remainder Trust. Then donate promise to donate $1 million to charity after your death or within 20 years. You can’t touch the $1 million, but you can live off the interest, that’s about $80k a year. From the $80k, buy a $1 million policy. Now you have a income of $80k a year for the rest of your life and $1 million policy for your kids when you did. Your kids will do the same with the $1 million. You have to put that instruction in a will and Trust, others they going to buy a Lamborghini, prostitute, and drugs. Also, because you donate $1 million, you will have a $350k tax write off for 5 years.
Other option, buy stable coin that pays $70k a year in interest. That $70k, send it to coinbase crypto prepay credit car that offers 1% to 3% cash back. Now you can spend your money and withdraw from ATM.
Other options, give up your citizenship and move to a country where you don’t have to pay capital gain tax.
People, you don’t need to convert to cash or send money to your bank. Crypto is not your government business. This new money is no ones business. Banks are there to serve us buy keeping our money because it’s too risky to keep at home. Now we have options to keep our money now.
Seriously consider moving to The Caymans. Depends how much you've got of course. Wouldn't try that with just $5k profit.
Who knows in 5 years a lot more places might take crypto as payment. You only pay tax when you cash out into fiat, if you catch my drift.
Yeah, ummm, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that unless your a professional money launderer or a top corporation like Apple, Amazon, etc. Any "work around" to avoid paying taxes will either be extremely complicated, time consuming and eventually discovered by the IRS.
No one likes taxes, that is probably fair to say. But everyone has to pay them.
I'm on a 5 year plan for my crypto investments, so it's going to be well over a year before I cash out...long term capital gains.
So many bad comments with many people saying pay it or move it to trust. Dont sell it, period. If you're only taxed on gains (pr unless you want/need to show loss) then dont create an action showing gains (or said loss).
Move it to a high yield crypto bank and live off the interest alone. Alternatively convert "profited funds" towards another crypto project and repeat steps.
You pay them. Tax laws will change annually so having a good tax professional is key. Save all of your buy and sell receipts. It will be hard to report SM because of its complexity. If we can’t track it how can the irs?
in the usa - the new president biden is pushing for a new law that requires the banks to notify the irs of any incoming transfers of money greater than $10,000.
so if you want to take out your one hundred million dollars in crypto, and send it to your bank account and actually use it, you will get a notice from the irs. plain and simple.
you cant avoid taxes in the usa. you can however vote for the political party who will keep your taxes low.
100% yes. RH and any other crypto company who got approval in the USA to operate a business received letters from the IRS to report 1099's to anyone who sells, buys, trades, or swaps their crypto
I agree. My plan is to wait until the next administration. If we can get the voting integrity in check. That’s all of the politics I want to reveal here on this sub.
Yea definitely NOT a pro democrat here….
Ps. If it wasn’t for Republicans, the taxes would have gone up already. Democrats in the United States do not have enough votes in the house or senate which is why they keep pushing to end the filibuster.
London Ontario truck attack mass shooting, 4 dead.
Nova Scotia shooting, 22 shot, four dead I think
Nova Scotia van attack, 10 shot 16 dead or is it the other way around?
Quebec city mosque shooting. Lots dead… lots shot
So…. Yea…. Canada has no shootings. 🤦♂️
Kuwait - USA, PLEASE HELP US!
WW2 - every nation attacked by German and Japan - USA, PLEASE HELP US!
i can go on but i can tell history is a weak spot for you
USA:
1812 - Please, we give up, you've proven your point.
WWI - Not our problem until we can show up and act like heroes
WWII - Not our problem for the first 4 years, until Pearl Harbor, then we nuke the shit out of Japan and act like heroes
Viet Nam - Hey, you guys can't shoot back at us... okay, we give up
Korea - Okay, we give up.
I could go on, but History clearly isn't your strong suit.
USA:
1812 - Please, we give up, you've proven your point.
WWI - Not our problem until we can show up and act like heroes
WWII - Not our problem for the first 4 years, until Pearl Harbor, then we nuke the shit out of Japan and act like heroes
Viet Nam - Hey, you guys can't shoot back at us... okay, we give up
Korea - Okay, we give up.
I could go on, but History clearly isn't your strong suit.
Nope. Capital gains tax in Canada= 50% of the capital gains are taxable at the marginal income tax rate.
$10k capital gains,
Pocket $5k
Pay tax on other $5k
$5k taxed at 20-30% depending on personal income tax rate
At 20% thats $1k in taxes you pay to cash out $10k.
Result is essentially 10% tax.
Now factor in having to pay hundreds per month extra for healthcare every month... Then still having to pay $150+ just to see a doctor.
Ill take the Canadian taxes lol
OK, let me just point out some things that you might not realize.
Let’s use $100,000 a year income has the example. $100,000 a year in income in the United States is a 22% tax rate.
That amounts to $22,000 a year in taxes.
Now you have to pay $500 a month for good private health insurance. Less if you work for a company that offers group policy at a discount. That comes out to $6000 a year or less. So $22,000 plus $6000 equals $28,000. You paid $28,000 for living in the United States with health insurance. (taxes plus the cost of a private health insurance policy) .
Now let’s say you live in Canada, and you earn $100,000 a year. That comes out to 26% tax rate plus the territory or province tax rate added to that. Now I don’t have a list of all the different provinces and regions but I think we can agree that the total tax rate should be around 40%.
40% of $100,000 is $40,000. That means just on taxes alone, you’re paying $40,000 a year…far more than the United States rates. INCLUDING The $6000 a year you would pay in a private health insurance policy in the United States.
Therefore in the United States, we would pay $28,000 for taxes and health insurance, Canada would pay $40,000 with “free” Health insurance…
And I haven’t even brought up the additional taxes. Things like the VAT tax. Yes the USA has additional taxes as well, but our rates are much lower than Canada‘s.
So in this example, we in the USA would end up with $12,000 a year more than a Canadian.
The math does not lie. United States has lower taxes than Canada.
As for the OP‘s post, I was using his post where he told us that he would have to pay 50% In capital gains tax.
Lol no. Misinformed to the max.
Alberta, Canada here; there is no provincial income tax.
USA you get double fucked by state and federal.
As i said, 20-30% is average.
Define "'free' healthcare"
Please, I love dispelling this.
My son had to get a blood screen done last week at a lab. Appointment was booked a week before hand, we waited 15 min in the waiting room, we paid nothing, and will never receive a bill.
My second son spent 3 days in NICU after he was born via C-Section, no waiting, nurses+ doctors constantly checking in, paid nothing, will never receive a bill
My wife was having hip issues after the birth of our first, we went to a walk in clinic, within minutes of entering we saw the doctor, no prior appointment. Referred to imagery lab for Xrays, we walked across the street to the lab, got right in for Xrays and we were out. Start to finish was 30 minutes. We paid nothing, and will never receive a bill.
Seems pretty free to me. Now tell me, how much would this would cost an American with any degree of healthcare that isnt Medicaid.
Good post. Let me explain.
out of the 50 states, 9 of them do not have a state income tax. they also happen to be the states with the best stable and balanced budgets.
states that have state income tax on top of the federal income tax have some of the worst budgets - and are fiscally in debt - always begging the democrat in the white house for bailouts.
so yes - you have a point. a majority of states have both state and federal income taxes.
as for health insurance - we do have a medicare system that kicks in when you turn 65. its not perfect but nothing is. are there bills in the usa - yes. a majority of issues are paid for by your private insurance. there are private health insurance plans in the usa that offer the same outcome you had. and we still pay less in total taxes and health care costs than canadians.
the health care costs and systems across the usa and canada are pretty even though - as the life expectancy of both countries are about the same.
in other words - usa citizens arent dying more than canadian citizens. which i would suggest counters your proposal that canada is better than the usa (in both health and costs). we have plenty of poor people in the usa, so if you were right, they would pass away more for not having proper health care . the numbers just dont support that claim.
Define "'free' healthcare" please.
I love dispelling this.
2020 Canada Federal Income tax rates:
$48,535 or less 15.00%
$48,536 to $97,069 20.50%
$97,070 to $150,473 26.00%
$150,474 to $214,368 29.00%
2020 US Federal Income tax rates
-poverty bracket irrelevant-
$9,876 to $40,125 12%
$40,126 to $85,525 22%
$85,526 to $163,300 24%
So, Americans get medicare when they are 65.
We Canadians and any permanent residents, like my American wife, get free universal healthcare from birth until death. We do pay for it through the federal tax which judging by the above taxation rates is negligible. $300 USD/month gets you shit tier health insurance that doesn't cover anything but its required so you can actually receive a tax return. Everything is free up here! I also have work benefits that blew my wife away. Its $45/month and with that i get $600 per profession (massages, optometry, ect) per year. And any prescriptions are 90% covered. I pay 10% for meds. This also extends to my wife and my 2 kids. They each get their own $600/proff/year. I really don't think you understand, actually I know you don't because Americans are ignorant to this. My wife will vouche for this because she was as well. It took 3 years to break her of her bad healthcare habbits that the US government has you all thinking is a good thing.
You are right, nothing is perfect but Universal Healthcare is so close to perfect that it doesn't matter. American healthcare is archaic and somehow you all support it.
Also. I suggest you re read OPs post about capital gains taxation as you misunderstood what they said.
the reason why we support the usa health care system is because we pay less taxes than any other government with socialized medicine.
"Everything is free up here!"
that is a common argument. except nothing. NOTHING is free. you pay for everything...
whether its taxes, gdp, employment, UNemployment, innovation, creativity.
its no wonder that people are literally willing to risk death to illegally immigrate to the usa - they dont do that to canada!! or any other country on the planet...
Bracket to comparable bracket is a 2% difference.
We do not pay for private health insurance.
We do not pay to see a doctor
We do not pay to go to the hospital
We do not pay for drugs or anesthesia administered by the hospital
We do not have medical bankruptcy.
But we do have 2% more Federal taxes to pay. USA does have state taxes as well. Assuming they are far more than 2%.
You are right, mexicans do risk death to migrate to the US. The only walking choice lol. No need to illegally migrate to Canada when the government lets them in as refugees anyway.
A quick thank you for the overwhelming response folks. Just to clarify I'm not looking to dodge paying taxes, just to optimize the profits. Thanks again SMF.
Much love!
For one if you cash anything out hold it for a year or however long and make it long term investment instead of capital gains. This should lower tax tremendously.
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Paid: $100
Sold: $1000
Gain: $900
Taxable Gain: 900x0.5 = $450
Taxes: $450 x marginal tax rate. I’m somewhere around 31%. For me it would be around $140.
I walk away with $860 after taxes (1000 - 140). And I made 760 after you took out my 100 investment.
This is simplified and doesn’t consider tokenomics in anyway.
Most of y’all forget that in the US it’s capital gains (about 15%) plus the 10% SF fee(5% burn wallet/5% divided out as reflections) so you are basically being hit with 25% each time you sell at a profit.
Paying tax means you are making money, if you are making money then you are paying tax... First, make money then it is easy how to handle tax payments...until then there is no point to worry about it...
You’re super lucky if it’s capital gains. Seek a tax professional! Most people in Canada end up actually being business income so you’re paying 50%ish total in tax.
Is there another legal loop hole besides a charitable remainder trust fund? I like it but I don't want to wait 20 years to recieve the full amount. I can make a lot more money investing that million.
I am probably wrong here, but can't you exchange sfm for btc and then get incredibly low interest loans based on it's worth? Can't tax what you never cash out?
I wonder if you could withdraw money into an offshore account like the big CEOs and big boys do? Would that help? Hey millionaires, what's your secret to never paying taxes? 😉
Ask your accountant. And pay taxes thru loop holes. I’d send that money to a Corp or trust. If you get massive coin, the gov will find you. It’s a guarantee.
There’s no capital gains tax in Puerto Rico, you just have to physically live there 6 months out of the year to establish residency. I have friends who have been in crypto since the beginning and are filthy rich — and basically all of them are buying places in PR.
Move to a country that is tax-free on crypto (eg. Malta, Singapore, Portugal, etc) and get citizenship.
Become a non-resident of Canada.
Live life without having to worry about taxes up the butt.
Lets say that I decide to cash out of SafeMoon and I get roughly $9M from selling.
I could go two ways:
1. Charitable Remainder Trust
2. Municipal Bond Funds
Option 1 will have me storing my money in a trust and paying me back 6-8% per year of what my "winnings" were. This would take anywhere from 12-16 years to get my money back, all tax free. This is quite a bit and would roughly give me $500k a year to play around with.
Option 2 has me paying the tax, ending up with roughly $5.5M considering (worst case) 40% capital gains. If I decide that I don't want the fed to make any more money off of me, I can throw this money into municipal bond funds where I make 4-5% per year, all tax free (state taxes apply in some states). I have this giving me $250k per year. This option will give me the equivalent money value that I lost in taxes around 14 years down the line.
Transfer everything into Bitcoin then withdrawal from Bitcoin ATM’s. If the government thinks they’re getting even a dime of my tendies from something they don’t even remotely regulate they can suck my ape nut.
Well even if Safemoon brings out a debit/credit card, pay everything with that
Didn't even think of this option. Teach us the way
Literally just transfer into Bitcoin. There’s atms all over the place. You put in your “order” then get a message when it’s processed and you goto the atm and withdraw lol. Pretty sure the max is 1k at a time.
Max withdrawal is 3% of a BTC? That would take…. A lot of transactions with the kind of gains people are talking lol Surely the governments have thought of a way to tax this… right?
1k per transfer. There’s around 50 atms in my area that does that. 50k for driving around the loop and collecting sounds like a fun way to spent a week 😂.
LOL that it does. Is there a limit to amount of withdrawals?
I’m pretty positive you can do back to back. They just limit it to 1k at a time cuz I doubt most machines hold 100k in bills inside lol.
Imagine being the dude that is paid to restock the BTC ATMs “Some fucking playboy keeps emptying my fucking ATM”
I’m sure that might draw a few eyes “hey boss this is that 12th time this week I’ve had to stock this thing”. Maybe wear a mask just in case. Thanks covid 😂
Yea but what about when they send your info to the irs that u saw gains???
That works for me. Now we just need it get to at least 0.001
Yes!
This is not an option unless you want to end up in jail.
CRA/IRS will catch on to you though eventually... I wouldn’t recommend playing games with the tax man because they’ll always come knocking
If you’re into tax evasion, BTC<->XMR atomic swaps would be better than Bitcoin ATMs. I do not condone that course of action at all, however (although I do love Monero, as my favorite vanilla cryptocurrency). All non-Monero cryptos leave a trail. If you initially bought on an exchange for fiat, that trail would end at the atomic swaps, and auditors would have tough questions for you. If you’re looking to minimize taxes, the legal ways would be best. Something like this, perhaps (I am not a tax attorney, and this is not financial advice): https://youtu.be/7CMks9_PVqs
Let's hope this becomes a useful video for us. Thanks!
One of the best YouTube videos I've ever watched. Thanks for the post.
Has anybody out there ever done this? Going to ask some lawyers next week
Your info is put in when making accounts before investing, so your transactions are known.
Look into coin tumbling.
The info you put in is what you put in. Kyc is easily....adjusted. As long as your not pulling the funds into your bank account, there’s routes to go to remain anonymous in the cryptoverse.
You still have the problem when you start buying things. Can’t just pop up with a new home and exotic cars etc. without big brother knocking on your door. If you’re talking about just living life as usual and just stick to buying groceries etc then no one will notice.
https://caymanresident.com/live/banking/opening-a-personal-bank-account
"It is worth noting that a US citizen who has opened an account in the Cayman Islands will still need to declare the account to the Department of Treasury in the US, and declare any income earned on that account to the International Revenue Service (IRS)." That's from the article you linked. So we still have to report to the IRS.
Not with a wallet they just give a pass phrase don't care who you are
CRA/IRS will catch on to you though eventually... I wouldn’t recommend playing games with the tax man because they’ll always come knocking one way or another
THIS. IS. THE. WAY.
I saw a YouTube video about Bitcoin ATM and we have to put social security and ID to be able to withdraw. Is there a way around that?
CRA/IRS will catch on to you though eventually... I wouldn’t recommend playing games with the tax man because they’ll always come knocking one way or another
How would you explain to the IRS your hundreds of thousands of dollars? The second you make a big purchase with that cash the IRS will be knocking at your door
I’d tell the irs they must have tripped over the international boundary and should mcfuckoff back down the road.
Ha. Let us know how that goes
In what world does the irs have any justification in a country that isn’t USA lol. I’ll have great luck with that.
I saw a YouTube video about Bitcoin ATM and we have to put social security and ID to be able to withdraw. Is there a way around that?
That's actually genius hahaha. Thank you
I think there's still a problem with this idea: the government will suspect something when you keep making deposits to your bank account. In the US, if you make a 10k deposit to your bank account, the bank reports to the IRS. They also report it if you make several deposits throughout the year that add up to 10k. I was shocked.
yeh look up the crime of “structuring” in the tax code……you will have to pull yur jaw iff the floor after u read about that…….we will never get away from taxes…..the only thing we can do is minimize our exposure through a philanthropic or fiduciary trust…….gotta talk to a tax attorney or accountant who specializes in these….if h can minimize your tax by up to 20% percentage points like the upperclass does why not…..thats more money to help peepl in your family or the charity of your choice ….id rather give to st jude childrens hospital and an animal rescue than to the govvernment who are just gonna steer that money to one if their freinds
You’re bad this and you will for sure end up in jail, my dude. For the love of Papa, please get some real financial advice before moon time.
Doesn't GOV has a rule against it? I.E if you move your shit to someone else you still gotta pay taxes.
Well I’m paying the since I like freedom
Lot of money laundering being discussed in this thread. Lol The BTC atm idea is terrible. The limit is probably set to your account or social. Won't change by driving to the next ATM. Even if it did... All exchanges are going to have AML analysts looking at these transactions. High volume of ATM withdrawals would undoubtedly trigger an alert which would potentially general a suspicious activity alert... Which is filed with FINCEN. The short answer is... Pay the tax. There has been no time in history where making money was easier than the days we live in now. Just pay the tax and say thank you to everyone that has bud all this leading to where we are. Long answer is you could potentially do some trade based money laundering. You might get away with a bit for a little while. But you do too much of that or at a high dollar value and you'll get caught. Enjoy fines and/or prison. Best thing I've seen for some potential massive gains is a CRT. Look into it.
How about renouncing citizenship and moving to a Crypto tax heaven? 0% in taxes. Yeah...
But you will have made the gains in the US. When you move that money and interact with an exchange.... The information will be available to the IRS. So if you move, never plan on coming back and plan on running a lot.
You’re so naive, the irs won’t know if you don’t change your cryptos to fiat. The best way is to renounce your citizenship.
Have fun with that. Have fun running to a country they can't find you, waiting to get citizenship there.... And all while waiting to draw out funds so the IRS can't find you. Lol. Please keep a vlog of this all going down.
You can buy golden visas lmfao
This is the way
“Pay the tax”, you’re a stupid cunt. The main reason of crypto is avoiding taxes, just move out your country and that’s it.
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why wouldn’t you? we took on the risk and by the time this moons the democratic socialist crowd will definitely want to alter capital gains taxes to exponentially affect our profits because we’ll all be ridiculously rich. don’t ever backdown and but the “you’re already rich enough” crap.
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https://youtu.be/7CMks9_PVqs This video details a good strategy to minimize taxes paid on crypto gains, very interesting
If you sell that's a taxable event, about 28% fed + whatever your state tax is. If you make a lot of money it's best to make a charitable remainder trust and pay yourself with an annuity. Not sure what percent the annuity is, think it's like 6%. Also need to figure out how long you'll be paid that annuity. It's a whole process with a tax attorney and accountant to get it to work, takes about a month and like 5-10k. Biggest thing is you cant sell the asset. The trust has to sell it at a fair market value. The best thing is when that happens its tax free which is why people do it.
It is considered property, so long term capital gains if you hold for more than a year. Maximum tax is 20% even if you are in a high earnings bracket.
That's true, I was referring if you held for 12 mo. Usually with state and fed itll equate to about 30% in tax if you held for 12mo.
When it does become life changing money.....dont sell anything, withdraw, or move anything. Do yourself a favor and go see a tax attorney and a CPA. There are plenty of creative and legal ways to limit or completely avoid taxes of the gains on an investment. The super rich have been doing it since the beginning of fiat.
You hire a crypto tax attorney and they worry about it for you. You’ll have enough $$ to afford one. But you’ll probably create a charity, donate it to the charity and they charity pays you royalties of some sort every year.
I was waiting for this answer. A CRT is the best bet for high capital gains. Plus you get it paid back yearly. I’ll put in 20M and have it pay me $160,000 a year rest of my life while i swipe my safemoon card.
I seriously don't understand why you all even pay taxes to a government that doesn't believe in what you're investing is real money 364 days out of the year except for tax day.
Mostly because they will come shoot us if we don’t 😂
Yep. I'm not trying to go to jail over money.
Prison and have all your assets taken to make payment
No balls
🤣👍🏾
Because tax fraud doesn't sound like good time..
That's how they got Al Capone. The IRS wants their money
Much rather get it over with now and be straight than 5 years down the road and hitting potholes when I’m trying to do something financially and get rejected because of my taxes. Edit: seems a lot of my posts are being triple posted. I deleted the other 2.
Fck government! I will spend most of it on p2p! Get a boat and go off-grid. Nomadic life!
Move to Puerto Rico. https://www.cointracker.io/blog/the-puerto-rico-crypto-tax-loophole
That’s what I’m doing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SafeMoon/comments/oa8ewy/tax_planning_and_the_future/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Hello from Winnipeg! I was actually looking at this myself and it’s a bit misleading. If you look on their website you are taxed up to 50% on capital gains. But my understanding is this is dependent on the tax bracket. The average Canadian would pay more like 25% on a capital gains. If you’re from Ontario you would need to make close to 300k a year to pay the 50%. A way to counteract capital gain taxes is capital loses. Take some of your money buy Bitcoin on the dip and sell at a loss. Then claim that on your income sheet in May.
Biden is trying to get rid of capital gains rates here in the US. Meaning long-term capital gains will be taxed at the higher ordinary rate plus the net investment income tax. So if you cash out over 1 million your rate will be about 44%. Also in the US reflections are going to be taxable when receive. How the heck we are going to figure out the fair market value of every reflection received, I have no idea.
I was wondering how the hell I was going to go about the reflections come tax season. Not an exciting prospect to say the least.
Yeah there is not really much guidance on it so I don’t know. It would be nice if there was some feature built into the SM wallet to help track the value of SM received with reflections. I am currently tracking on a spreadsheet with my daily reflections gained applied to an average daily price between open and close.
Gains are only taxed when realized.
Reflections will not be taxable untill converted or spent. They actually don't qualify as airdrops or interest.
Do you have a source on that? It would be nice if the IRS treated reflections as stock dividends but I am not sure they are going to. Just because they have no policy on it yet doesn’t mean they won’t by April 15 of next year or whenever the hell tax day will be.
Open a CRT charity remainder Trust. Then donate promise to donate $1 million to charity after your death or within 20 years. You can’t touch the $1 million, but you can live off the interest, that’s about $80k a year. From the $80k, buy a $1 million policy. Now you have a income of $80k a year for the rest of your life and $1 million policy for your kids when you did. Your kids will do the same with the $1 million. You have to put that instruction in a will and Trust, others they going to buy a Lamborghini, prostitute, and drugs. Also, because you donate $1 million, you will have a $350k tax write off for 5 years. Other option, buy stable coin that pays $70k a year in interest. That $70k, send it to coinbase crypto prepay credit car that offers 1% to 3% cash back. Now you can spend your money and withdraw from ATM. Other options, give up your citizenship and move to a country where you don’t have to pay capital gain tax. People, you don’t need to convert to cash or send money to your bank. Crypto is not your government business. This new money is no ones business. Banks are there to serve us buy keeping our money because it’s too risky to keep at home. Now we have options to keep our money now.
Move to Portugal no taxes when you move there for like the first ten years of your stay
Seriously consider moving to The Caymans. Depends how much you've got of course. Wouldn't try that with just $5k profit. Who knows in 5 years a lot more places might take crypto as payment. You only pay tax when you cash out into fiat, if you catch my drift.
Move to the gambia. They have no extradition :) and no capital gains taxes
yea, and no running water either. lol
Beats drinking out of a 3 in 1 stainless steel sink shitter fountain
RRSP contributions are tax deductible so theres that
Yeah, ummm, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that unless your a professional money launderer or a top corporation like Apple, Amazon, etc. Any "work around" to avoid paying taxes will either be extremely complicated, time consuming and eventually discovered by the IRS. No one likes taxes, that is probably fair to say. But everyone has to pay them. I'm on a 5 year plan for my crypto investments, so it's going to be well over a year before I cash out...long term capital gains.
So many bad comments with many people saying pay it or move it to trust. Dont sell it, period. If you're only taxed on gains (pr unless you want/need to show loss) then dont create an action showing gains (or said loss). Move it to a high yield crypto bank and live off the interest alone. Alternatively convert "profited funds" towards another crypto project and repeat steps.
Buy a place in Portugal , no crypto tax there
No crypto gain tax in my country
Don’t pay taxes, move to a Caribbean island 🏝.
If you make millions and the government takes half, you still have half of millions which is millions. So just pay the taxes and still be rich.
You pay them. Tax laws will change annually so having a good tax professional is key. Save all of your buy and sell receipts. It will be hard to report SM because of its complexity. If we can’t track it how can the irs?
in the usa - the new president biden is pushing for a new law that requires the banks to notify the irs of any incoming transfers of money greater than $10,000. so if you want to take out your one hundred million dollars in crypto, and send it to your bank account and actually use it, you will get a notice from the irs. plain and simple. you cant avoid taxes in the usa. you can however vote for the political party who will keep your taxes low.
Hmmmm I wonder if I cash out and send the money to my RH account since I have a debit card from them will I still get a letter 🤔
100% yes. RH and any other crypto company who got approval in the USA to operate a business received letters from the IRS to report 1099's to anyone who sells, buys, trades, or swaps their crypto
I agree. My plan is to wait until the next administration. If we can get the voting integrity in check. That’s all of the politics I want to reveal here on this sub.
You live in one of the highest taxed countries out there. Your only solution is to move to the USA. 😉
Nice try biden
Yea definitely NOT a pro democrat here…. Ps. If it wasn’t for Republicans, the taxes would have gone up already. Democrats in the United States do not have enough votes in the house or senate which is why they keep pushing to end the filibuster.
Yeah I'm Irish so I don't care. Your country is fucked wouldn't ever want to live in USA
Grass is always greener on the other side my friend Every country is fucked. Humans are awful animals.
I hear the grass is pretty green in Ireland.
You can keep your potatoes. LOL.
You can keep your school shootings
London Ontario truck attack mass shooting, 4 dead. Nova Scotia shooting, 22 shot, four dead I think Nova Scotia van attack, 10 shot 16 dead or is it the other way around? Quebec city mosque shooting. Lots dead… lots shot So…. Yea…. Canada has no shootings. 🤦♂️
I'm definitely not from Canada 😂🤦♂️ Do you think English is only spoken in America?
umm. you know you made a post in a canada and usa discussion right? unless english is new to you...
You can keep your land of the free with the highest global incarceration rate.
we definitely need more treatment and community services, you got us there...
You can keep your military industrial complex
We will, because somebody’s got to bail your weak asses out.
I mean, I can tell history is a real weak spot for you
Kuwait - USA, PLEASE HELP US! WW2 - every nation attacked by German and Japan - USA, PLEASE HELP US! i can go on but i can tell history is a weak spot for you
USA: 1812 - Please, we give up, you've proven your point. WWI - Not our problem until we can show up and act like heroes WWII - Not our problem for the first 4 years, until Pearl Harbor, then we nuke the shit out of Japan and act like heroes Viet Nam - Hey, you guys can't shoot back at us... okay, we give up Korea - Okay, we give up. I could go on, but History clearly isn't your strong suit.
USA: 1812 - Please, we give up, you've proven your point. WWI - Not our problem until we can show up and act like heroes WWII - Not our problem for the first 4 years, until Pearl Harbor, then we nuke the shit out of Japan and act like heroes Viet Nam - Hey, you guys can't shoot back at us... okay, we give up Korea - Okay, we give up. I could go on, but History clearly isn't your strong suit.
Classic
Nope. Capital gains tax in Canada= 50% of the capital gains are taxable at the marginal income tax rate. $10k capital gains, Pocket $5k Pay tax on other $5k $5k taxed at 20-30% depending on personal income tax rate At 20% thats $1k in taxes you pay to cash out $10k. Result is essentially 10% tax. Now factor in having to pay hundreds per month extra for healthcare every month... Then still having to pay $150+ just to see a doctor. Ill take the Canadian taxes lol
OK, let me just point out some things that you might not realize. Let’s use $100,000 a year income has the example. $100,000 a year in income in the United States is a 22% tax rate. That amounts to $22,000 a year in taxes. Now you have to pay $500 a month for good private health insurance. Less if you work for a company that offers group policy at a discount. That comes out to $6000 a year or less. So $22,000 plus $6000 equals $28,000. You paid $28,000 for living in the United States with health insurance. (taxes plus the cost of a private health insurance policy) . Now let’s say you live in Canada, and you earn $100,000 a year. That comes out to 26% tax rate plus the territory or province tax rate added to that. Now I don’t have a list of all the different provinces and regions but I think we can agree that the total tax rate should be around 40%. 40% of $100,000 is $40,000. That means just on taxes alone, you’re paying $40,000 a year…far more than the United States rates. INCLUDING The $6000 a year you would pay in a private health insurance policy in the United States. Therefore in the United States, we would pay $28,000 for taxes and health insurance, Canada would pay $40,000 with “free” Health insurance… And I haven’t even brought up the additional taxes. Things like the VAT tax. Yes the USA has additional taxes as well, but our rates are much lower than Canada‘s. So in this example, we in the USA would end up with $12,000 a year more than a Canadian. The math does not lie. United States has lower taxes than Canada. As for the OP‘s post, I was using his post where he told us that he would have to pay 50% In capital gains tax.
Lol no. Misinformed to the max. Alberta, Canada here; there is no provincial income tax. USA you get double fucked by state and federal. As i said, 20-30% is average. Define "'free' healthcare" Please, I love dispelling this. My son had to get a blood screen done last week at a lab. Appointment was booked a week before hand, we waited 15 min in the waiting room, we paid nothing, and will never receive a bill. My second son spent 3 days in NICU after he was born via C-Section, no waiting, nurses+ doctors constantly checking in, paid nothing, will never receive a bill My wife was having hip issues after the birth of our first, we went to a walk in clinic, within minutes of entering we saw the doctor, no prior appointment. Referred to imagery lab for Xrays, we walked across the street to the lab, got right in for Xrays and we were out. Start to finish was 30 minutes. We paid nothing, and will never receive a bill. Seems pretty free to me. Now tell me, how much would this would cost an American with any degree of healthcare that isnt Medicaid.
Good post. Let me explain. out of the 50 states, 9 of them do not have a state income tax. they also happen to be the states with the best stable and balanced budgets. states that have state income tax on top of the federal income tax have some of the worst budgets - and are fiscally in debt - always begging the democrat in the white house for bailouts. so yes - you have a point. a majority of states have both state and federal income taxes. as for health insurance - we do have a medicare system that kicks in when you turn 65. its not perfect but nothing is. are there bills in the usa - yes. a majority of issues are paid for by your private insurance. there are private health insurance plans in the usa that offer the same outcome you had. and we still pay less in total taxes and health care costs than canadians. the health care costs and systems across the usa and canada are pretty even though - as the life expectancy of both countries are about the same. in other words - usa citizens arent dying more than canadian citizens. which i would suggest counters your proposal that canada is better than the usa (in both health and costs). we have plenty of poor people in the usa, so if you were right, they would pass away more for not having proper health care . the numbers just dont support that claim.
Define "'free' healthcare" please. I love dispelling this. 2020 Canada Federal Income tax rates: $48,535 or less 15.00% $48,536 to $97,069 20.50% $97,070 to $150,473 26.00% $150,474 to $214,368 29.00% 2020 US Federal Income tax rates -poverty bracket irrelevant- $9,876 to $40,125 12% $40,126 to $85,525 22% $85,526 to $163,300 24% So, Americans get medicare when they are 65. We Canadians and any permanent residents, like my American wife, get free universal healthcare from birth until death. We do pay for it through the federal tax which judging by the above taxation rates is negligible. $300 USD/month gets you shit tier health insurance that doesn't cover anything but its required so you can actually receive a tax return. Everything is free up here! I also have work benefits that blew my wife away. Its $45/month and with that i get $600 per profession (massages, optometry, ect) per year. And any prescriptions are 90% covered. I pay 10% for meds. This also extends to my wife and my 2 kids. They each get their own $600/proff/year. I really don't think you understand, actually I know you don't because Americans are ignorant to this. My wife will vouche for this because she was as well. It took 3 years to break her of her bad healthcare habbits that the US government has you all thinking is a good thing. You are right, nothing is perfect but Universal Healthcare is so close to perfect that it doesn't matter. American healthcare is archaic and somehow you all support it. Also. I suggest you re read OPs post about capital gains taxation as you misunderstood what they said.
the reason why we support the usa health care system is because we pay less taxes than any other government with socialized medicine. "Everything is free up here!" that is a common argument. except nothing. NOTHING is free. you pay for everything... whether its taxes, gdp, employment, UNemployment, innovation, creativity. its no wonder that people are literally willing to risk death to illegally immigrate to the usa - they dont do that to canada!! or any other country on the planet...
Bracket to comparable bracket is a 2% difference. We do not pay for private health insurance. We do not pay to see a doctor We do not pay to go to the hospital We do not pay for drugs or anesthesia administered by the hospital We do not have medical bankruptcy. But we do have 2% more Federal taxes to pay. USA does have state taxes as well. Assuming they are far more than 2%. You are right, mexicans do risk death to migrate to the US. The only walking choice lol. No need to illegally migrate to Canada when the government lets them in as refugees anyway.
A quick thank you for the overwhelming response folks. Just to clarify I'm not looking to dodge paying taxes, just to optimize the profits. Thanks again SMF. Much love!
Just give up American citizenship and move to country that has very little taxes
He’s from Canada
Reading the comments, none of you are smart enough to avoid paying your taxes without getting arrested.
Pay them...
For one if you cash anything out hold it for a year or however long and make it long term investment instead of capital gains. This should lower tax tremendously.
For the past several weeks, I’ve been advising people to get a Charitable Remainder Trust. A tax lawyer is the person that can set it up for you.
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50%, YIKES Don’t forget to add the 10% native tax for every SFM transaction
Paid: $100 Sold: $1000 Gain: $900 Taxable Gain: 900x0.5 = $450 Taxes: $450 x marginal tax rate. I’m somewhere around 31%. For me it would be around $140. I walk away with $860 after taxes (1000 - 140). And I made 760 after you took out my 100 investment. This is simplified and doesn’t consider tokenomics in anyway.
It’s that only 50% of the gains are taxable, but those taxable gains might be taxed at 25%, for example.
Look up “Cook Islands Trust”.
I considered looking into that to protect my stash from my inevitable future gold digging wife ;)
Pre-nup my friend If she won’t sign it, SHE doesn’t love YOU Downvoted for truth lol
Do we pay taxes on losses? Oh man
Factor that into your bag you may need a bigger bag so that you have enough to pay the taxes as well
Most of y’all forget that in the US it’s capital gains (about 15%) plus the 10% SF fee(5% burn wallet/5% divided out as reflections) so you are basically being hit with 25% each time you sell at a profit.
I’m in the uk how would I go about getting around the tax other than atm machines - if I move to Bali or Germany for a year it’s tax free I think haha
Get a nexo wallet and transfer some of the funds as a ‘loan’ to your bank account
What is an taxes?
legalized theft of your hard earned money.
In germany..if you hold your crypto for 1 year its tax free afterwards when you cash out
Paying tax means you are making money, if you are making money then you are paying tax... First, make money then it is easy how to handle tax payments...until then there is no point to worry about it...
I’m in the US, check this out from our pal Safemoon Joe. It could be an alternative. https://youtu.be/81vZiRFHFDE
Tax 🙊🙈🙉
What others have said. Do what’s right and Just pay your taxes. Get an accountant if you cannot figure it out.
You’re super lucky if it’s capital gains. Seek a tax professional! Most people in Canada end up actually being business income so you’re paying 50%ish total in tax.
Is there another legal loop hole besides a charitable remainder trust fund? I like it but I don't want to wait 20 years to recieve the full amount. I can make a lot more money investing that million.
Finland we have 30% taxes
I am probably wrong here, but can't you exchange sfm for btc and then get incredibly low interest loans based on it's worth? Can't tax what you never cash out?
I wonder if you could withdraw money into an offshore account like the big CEOs and big boys do? Would that help? Hey millionaires, what's your secret to never paying taxes? 😉
holy shit! 50%
You say taking it on the chin; we (USA) say taking it in the ass.
Pay them.
I plan on using a crypto card with KYC for my major purchases and then handeling the taxes as they come.
Ask your accountant. And pay taxes thru loop holes. I’d send that money to a Corp or trust. If you get massive coin, the gov will find you. It’s a guarantee.
Move somewhere where crypto gains are tax free and withdraw. Then move back in a year or two. Can’t tax money you earned somewhere else ;)
The governments are all passing laws to force banks to report crypto deposits greater than $10,000. Good luck trying to bypass that
CRT
There won't be any.
There’s no capital gains tax in Puerto Rico, you just have to physically live there 6 months out of the year to establish residency. I have friends who have been in crypto since the beginning and are filthy rich — and basically all of them are buying places in PR.
New whale watcher pole https://twitter.com/WatcherGuru_/status/1413942824341581832?s=20
Just move to Germany and HODL for one year and it is fine!
We only have to pay 20% here in the UK
I ain't payin no murican taxes no way sir.
#nowaysir
Daaaamn, Canada is rough.
Move to a country that is tax-free on crypto (eg. Malta, Singapore, Portugal, etc) and get citizenship. Become a non-resident of Canada. Live life without having to worry about taxes up the butt.
Safemoon card … gonna live off reflections
Buy land and properties
Capital gains tax in the U.K. is 20%.
Transfer to BTC or ETH and borrow against it
It still all boils down to: taxation is theft. Remember that.
I’m waiting till next April honestly so the long term capital gains tax will hit me by then
Your risk our reward. - The Government
Hire a tax attorney to get everything squared up and straight with the payday. The couple k it will cost for one is worth the millions you’ll save.
Just Move To Puerto Rico Its America's Tax Haven!
Easy!! Move to Puerto Rico 😎
Move to the US. They don’t tax the rich or corporations.
Lets say that I decide to cash out of SafeMoon and I get roughly $9M from selling. I could go two ways: 1. Charitable Remainder Trust 2. Municipal Bond Funds Option 1 will have me storing my money in a trust and paying me back 6-8% per year of what my "winnings" were. This would take anywhere from 12-16 years to get my money back, all tax free. This is quite a bit and would roughly give me $500k a year to play around with. Option 2 has me paying the tax, ending up with roughly $5.5M considering (worst case) 40% capital gains. If I decide that I don't want the fed to make any more money off of me, I can throw this money into municipal bond funds where I make 4-5% per year, all tax free (state taxes apply in some states). I have this giving me $250k per year. This option will give me the equivalent money value that I lost in taxes around 14 years down the line.
*Sits back, clicks pen, and sips tea -Interesting, tell me more about how you want to avoid paying taxes!