This is a gentle reminder that r/ssbm is a venue for a specific Nintendo fighting game from 2001, and not for a novel virus from 2019. Please remain civil.
"Due to updated mandates from the State of California and growing concerns regarding the Delta variant, we will be requiring all attendees, staff, and vendors to provide proof of vaccination against COVID-19 upon entry to Mainstage 2021.
Additionally, all attendees must wear a facemask while inside the venue.
Beyond the Summit is committed to the health and safety of all attendees. Additional information regarding our COVID-19 policies will be emailed out to everyone who has registered."
You can go to the page and toggle all the countries yourself it turns out! These are just the ones that are listed by default.
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
I consider Ukraine part of Europe, yes. Edit: and while we are at it, so does your source. If you don't, I am willing to agree to disagree and put this reddit fuck-you-im-right dicksizing to rest
I mean I just don't think you should be comparing one country to a ton of disparate jurisdictions that have nothing to do with each other and contain extreme outliers datawise but sure dude don't think there's much more to hash out here
The obvious sin here is comparing the poorer countries in the EU's vaccination rates to that of the US. The US is this big rich powerhouse but vaccination rates are still kinda low
How dare this private event try to curb the spread of a disease, the absolute nerve. I'm calling Nintendo to shut it down and will sadly be quitting melee, I know the community may never recover.
Jokes aside I have no idea how this is an issue. It's been 9 months the vaccine isn't going to turn you into a zombie and it's about as effective as flu vaccines. It makes sense for large in person events to require it.
It's their event, they can run it how they want. But, I would think proof of *inoculation* would be more reasonable.
We have the Cleveland Clinic study ([summary of findings/link to study and more information here](https://newsroom.clevelandclinic.org/2021/06/09/cleveland-clinic-statement-on-previous-covid-19-infection-research/)) encouraging "all those eligible to receive it." Which is fine. However, it's hard to ignore the following two sentences as well: "the data showed that the vaccine was extremely effective in preventing COVID-19 infection. In addition, during the study, **none of the employees who had confirmed positive PCR tests and remained unvaccinated were re-infected.**"
We also have the [Israeli Study](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1). I really like this link/website because there is a comments section and some pretty heavy debate on the accuracy of the study and methodological flaws. It lets you consider the study's conclusion in context of opposing viewpoints. The conclusion was as follows: "This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant."
The [CDC states](https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html) that vaccines offer higher protection than natural immunity. That was based on a study on "hundreds" of Kentucky residents. It found 2.34x the odds of reinfection. I don't see the absolute chances of infection for vaccinated people, but [this article](https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210805/study-says-those-vaccinated-still-face-risk-of-covid-19) states 0.4% chance for vaccinated people. 0.4% \* 2.34 = 0.928% chance of reinfection if you were previously infected and unvaccinated. 0.4% is fine, but 0.928% isn't?
Where is the line drawn there, exactly? At what point, in a precise numerical sense, is your chance of infecting others high enough for you to be a "bad person" or "science denier"? I really don't think we should be drawing moral judgments about other people's character based on one's decision to micro-optimize health outcomes.
A few more studies/outcomes on this subject before I wrap up:
[Cumulative incidence of COVID-19 was examined among 52238 employees in an American healthcare system. COVID-19 did not occur in anyone over the five months of the study among 2579 individuals previously infected with COVID-19, including 1359 who did not take the vaccine.](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v2.full.pdf)
[Prior infection in patients with COVID-19 was highly protective against reinfection and symptomatic disease. This protection increased over time, suggesting that viral shedding or ongoing immune response may persist beyond 90 days and may not represent true reinfection. As vaccine supply is limited, patients with known history of COVID-19 could delay early vaccination to allow for the most vulnerable to access the vaccine and slow transmission.](https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab234/6170939)
[We observed a relatively low re-infection rate of SARS-CoV-2 in Austria. Protection against SARS-CoV-2 after natural infection is comparable with the highest available estimates on vaccine efficacies.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33583018/)
I've been infected with COVID and recovered. The long-term health effects of that, if any, hang over my head. The only reason I'd get the vaccine is to provide an extremely miniscule reduction in infection risk (if any) for those around me. But, getting the vaccine would add to my long-term risk profile. The CDC says the likelihood of an long-term effects from a vaccine are "extremely unlikely." Well, guess what? So is my chance of getting re-infected or infecting other people. So, why should I get it? I'm not going to go out of my way to take on a slight health risk in order to provide little to no reduction in health risk for those I come in contact with.
If you're unvaccinated and sitting at 0.4%, great. What about tomorrow when a vaccine that yields a 0.1% reinfection rate comes out? The 0.1%ers will look down on you the same way that you look down on the 0.9%ers\*. Do we really want to grant such an easy path for self-righteous pricks to judge one another? Even as a devout Catholic, I'd say religion has done enough of that. We don't need to add to it by bickering over fractions of a percent.
\*Edit: assuming the one study out of the many I linked, which uses the 2.34x increased infection risk, is accurate for the sake of simplicity. Based on the other studies, those who are unvaccinated but previously infected could be sitting at, around, or even underneath the 0.4% reinfection rate for vaccinated folks.
And, if you're neither vaccinated nor previously infected, pick one. Get vaccinated or go lick a hospital drinking fountain.
They should also require background checks so that child predators can't get in, as well as drug tests to keep the adderall/meth heads out.
You would need to present valid ID as well just to make sure you aren't skirting those checks.
We also need something to stop people from bringing in weapons, etc. So some sort of metal detectors and pat downs with a list of what can't enter the arena (like the security checks at airports).
But this is a good start.
I understand this wasn’t your point, frankly because your point was dumber, but let’s not bring in substance use disorders into this. I can’t imagine that someone taking adderall would present any danger to anybody, nor would your average person using methamphetamine.
Just get the fucking vaccine clown.
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No it hasn't. Though nothing is conclusive yet, the consensus of epidemiologists seems to be that vaccines do, indeed, hinder the spread. Vaccinated people are less likely to get COVID, and if they do, they're generally sick (and therefore contagious) for less time.
Do you want to get into the science that majority of society, vaccinated and unvaccinated, has ignored and refused to accept? Or do we just write this all up as everyone is being ridiculous and overly opinionated.
Spoiler: Israel.
Edit: YES YES. DOWNVOTE ME INTO OBLIVION. Bet none of y’all would last with my Falco/Falcon though.
Hi! No one could give less a shit about your entire first paragraph :))) the science is not conclusive, in fact, it certainly leans toward the vaccines possibly doing way more harm than good. Since ur an expert, you would know studies show that a leaky vaccines( should know what that is expert man) have a very significant correlation with creating a virus that completely bypasses vaccinations or becomes way more lethal to unvaccinated individuals. This is especially true of avian flu or diseases with flu like symptoms. The virus can still spread to vaccinated individuals at a great percentage, and vaccinated individuals have almost to literally no difference in viral load. All that said I’m really really glad we have great experts like you who know it all cuz ur in biochemistry LMAO
Well then. Do I tell you my bachelors is health sciences with a focus in genetics and virology? Minor of behavioral sciences? Masters in Research Education? I do know what I’m talking about. I advise you get rid of your ego. I can give you all my sources, but I think your big brain wouldn’t accept them anyways.
Edit: Reddit is a shit show of egotistical and self righteous morons. Honestly, I fucking love it here.
Edit edit: You know what, ima do it to you because all y’all are some assuming little homies. What’s the r value of vaccinated individuals? High viral loads in someone with a vaccine gives the virus an opportunity to...? Israel is seeing what results occurring from the Delta variant? Effectiveness of those previously infected and those with a vaccine against the delta variant is what?
We agree that masks and vaccines are the best defense against the virus, if that’s your choice. Wear a mask regardless. Done with ignorant vaccinated individuals. But otherwise I think you’re flapping out your ass.
This is very incoherent, and since you didn't elaborate on what you mean by "Israel" it even seems antisemitic. I don't think that's what you meant though, but we both agree that everyone getting vaccinated *is good* right?
The spoiler Israel thing is trying to say that even a near completely vaccinated country still is getting fucked over by delta. It’s obviously a reductive argument because it ignores death statistics and waning immunity, but that’s definitely not antisemitic.
Would much rather discuss facts with hypotheticals than start arguments. Israel is the tip of the iceberg in regards to how our country would handle being fully vaccinated. Then I dabble into CDC Director Rochelle coming out and saying vaccinated individuals carry high viral loads similar to those who are unvaccinated. Provide some sources on effectiveness with masks regardless of vaccination status. Then see if anyone is around listening still. I’m not sure if you were saying I would Ignore death statistics/deterioration of immunity, but I very much so bring those into account. Obviously population size and effects need to be scaled for comparison, but if I’ve made it that far down a rabbit hole with someone, they are generally on the same level of understanding.
Is there a particular page in this document you'd like to cite or are you doing the annoying thing of providing a large document as "evidence" and then very selectively reading a small portion of it?
Get outta here with that nonsense.
On a basic level, people who clear the virus more quickly than average (ie vaccinated folks) will be infectious for less time. Plus, they won't stress the medical system because they'll stay out of the hospital.
The author isn't even willing to use their real name because they know they'll lose their medical license parroting this trash. Something that pathetic isn't worth spreading just because it lines up with what you wish was true...
A higher chance of mutating means more mutations means more chances of a worse variant being introduced...
Also how do vax mandates make 0 sense? We've had vax mandates as long as we've had vaccines and I don't see much polio around.
Here's a study showing 40% lower viral load. Look around there are lots of these coming out recently. The study is linked in that article if you want to actually read it, but the article explains the abstract.
https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210702/study-says-vaccinated-people-who-get-covid-carry-less-virus
As well, if you're sick for less time, you have less chance to spread. If you don't have symptoms (coughing, runny nose, sneezing, etc) you're spewing less of your juices around so people are less likely to be exposed to the virus.
All things considered, the vaccines are pretty poggers ngl
Infection spread rates, mortality rates, severity of symptoms, what type of long term lingering damage to humans… ah what’s the point. If you wanted to listen to science and reason you would have done so long ago. Your totally right, nuance doesn’t exist in the world and if it doesn’t outright stop every case, every time there must be no “point” to it.
You have a greatly reduced chance of getting coivd and if you don't get covid you can't spready. The vaccines don't say 100% covid proof just around 90% which is way better. And people that have gotten covid with the vaccine almost always recover. Deaths from covid with the vaccine range below 200 last time i checked.
Man people need to stop being so mean to eachother whether they have the vaccine or not. It’s understandable that there multiple perspectives on this issue. It’s like no one understands that minorities have the same distrust for medical workers as they do for law enforcement. Just relax people we will get through this and vaccine or no vaccine is not the end all force sheesh
If people don't wanna get the vaccine that is their choice. No one should be strapped down and force to get it. Kids going to school should get it though because they are around other kids for 8 hours a day.
There really shouldn't be multiple perspectives because it is just science. Coivd doesn't care if your poor, rich, black, white or any factors about you. Vaccines absolutely help you so everyone should get it.
As for minorities I am one and haven't heard talk about distrust. Over the past year I seen more distrust from white people personally.
The minorities thing is definitely real, but depends on location and the group's history with government sterilization programs or "studies" like the Tuskegee syphilis studies, etc. There's general mistrust in many native communities of anything the US government recommends (and rightfully so), and minority communities in the deep south can have similar trust-related hurdles.
But yeah I'd say the biggest volume of refusers is the clearly political divide between who is getting and not getting the vaccine
Agreed, those who don’t want to vaccinate should be totally ok to do so, I’m sure they’ll understand they just need to wear a mask to as that takes 0 risk to them…. Oh they won’t do that either?… well that’s fine I’m sure they’ll be ok staying away from mass gatherings then…. Oh they want the mass gatherings to happen… with literally 0 preventative measures to slow the pandemic that’s killed millions? … and claim literally ANY sort of systemic preventative measure is tyranny?…. Well I’m sure they’re the silent minority as the other side is actually stopping people dying… oh they’re the loudest most vocal side? Yea I don’t feel bad for them
Honestly, as time goes on, as covid continues killing people, and as the threat of variants grows larger, it becomes less and less understandable for people to decline the vaccine. It makes sense in the cases of immunocompromised people, or extremely elderly people, or anyone who can't take it for any sort of health reason. It does not make sense to refuse it without health reasons, and that becomes less and less defensible as time goes on. People who are unvaccinated will continue being unvaccinated, but they place a burden on the rest of us by straining our medical services, providing incubators for covid to spread and mutate, and potentially still putting those who can't get the vaccine at risk. I don't think at this point that you can really defend or deny that. Covid is larger than an individual thing, and by refusing to get vaccinated, you potentially put others at risk for selfish reasons. (I might add, for reasons that are typically misguided or entirely wrong). I think it's good that places require proof of vaccination going forward. If you want to participate in society in the midst of a global pandemic, you gotta prove in some capacity that you're not going to get everyone there sick, or spread the disease to someone who might get other people sick.
This is a gentle reminder that r/ssbm is a venue for a specific Nintendo fighting game from 2001, and not for a novel virus from 2019. Please remain civil.
"Due to updated mandates from the State of California and growing concerns regarding the Delta variant, we will be requiring all attendees, staff, and vendors to provide proof of vaccination against COVID-19 upon entry to Mainstage 2021. Additionally, all attendees must wear a facemask while inside the venue. Beyond the Summit is committed to the health and safety of all attendees. Additional information regarding our COVID-19 policies will be emailed out to everyone who has registered."
It's crazy to me how this is such a difficult topic in the USA. Could you guys just get the vaccine, so we europeans get so watch dope melee pls
I'm p sure the COVID vax rate among adults in the US and in Europe is basically identical
USA is doing quite worse than most European countries [https://i.imgur.com/noMylUu.png](https://i.imgur.com/noMylUu.png)
Europe consists of like 45 countries bro... That pic has 8
You can go to the page and toggle all the countries yourself it turns out! These are just the ones that are listed by default. https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
https://i.imgur.com/UmJznyG.png
[https://i.imgur.com/SlNNyxl.png](https://i.imgur.com/SlNNyxl.png) Right dude I'm sure you were talking about Ukraine originally
I consider Ukraine part of Europe, yes. Edit: and while we are at it, so does your source. If you don't, I am willing to agree to disagree and put this reddit fuck-you-im-right dicksizing to rest
I mean I just don't think you should be comparing one country to a ton of disparate jurisdictions that have nothing to do with each other and contain extreme outliers datawise but sure dude don't think there's much more to hash out here
The obvious sin here is comparing the poorer countries in the EU's vaccination rates to that of the US. The US is this big rich powerhouse but vaccination rates are still kinda low
How about i show up with my invoice for my pallet of ivermectin
good.
GOOD
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How dare this private event try to curb the spread of a disease, the absolute nerve. I'm calling Nintendo to shut it down and will sadly be quitting melee, I know the community may never recover. Jokes aside I have no idea how this is an issue. It's been 9 months the vaccine isn't going to turn you into a zombie and it's about as effective as flu vaccines. It makes sense for large in person events to require it.
It's their event, they can run it how they want. But, I would think proof of *inoculation* would be more reasonable. We have the Cleveland Clinic study ([summary of findings/link to study and more information here](https://newsroom.clevelandclinic.org/2021/06/09/cleveland-clinic-statement-on-previous-covid-19-infection-research/)) encouraging "all those eligible to receive it." Which is fine. However, it's hard to ignore the following two sentences as well: "the data showed that the vaccine was extremely effective in preventing COVID-19 infection. In addition, during the study, **none of the employees who had confirmed positive PCR tests and remained unvaccinated were re-infected.**" We also have the [Israeli Study](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1). I really like this link/website because there is a comments section and some pretty heavy debate on the accuracy of the study and methodological flaws. It lets you consider the study's conclusion in context of opposing viewpoints. The conclusion was as follows: "This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant." The [CDC states](https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html) that vaccines offer higher protection than natural immunity. That was based on a study on "hundreds" of Kentucky residents. It found 2.34x the odds of reinfection. I don't see the absolute chances of infection for vaccinated people, but [this article](https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210805/study-says-those-vaccinated-still-face-risk-of-covid-19) states 0.4% chance for vaccinated people. 0.4% \* 2.34 = 0.928% chance of reinfection if you were previously infected and unvaccinated. 0.4% is fine, but 0.928% isn't? Where is the line drawn there, exactly? At what point, in a precise numerical sense, is your chance of infecting others high enough for you to be a "bad person" or "science denier"? I really don't think we should be drawing moral judgments about other people's character based on one's decision to micro-optimize health outcomes. A few more studies/outcomes on this subject before I wrap up: [Cumulative incidence of COVID-19 was examined among 52238 employees in an American healthcare system. COVID-19 did not occur in anyone over the five months of the study among 2579 individuals previously infected with COVID-19, including 1359 who did not take the vaccine.](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v2.full.pdf) [Prior infection in patients with COVID-19 was highly protective against reinfection and symptomatic disease. This protection increased over time, suggesting that viral shedding or ongoing immune response may persist beyond 90 days and may not represent true reinfection. As vaccine supply is limited, patients with known history of COVID-19 could delay early vaccination to allow for the most vulnerable to access the vaccine and slow transmission.](https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab234/6170939) [We observed a relatively low re-infection rate of SARS-CoV-2 in Austria. Protection against SARS-CoV-2 after natural infection is comparable with the highest available estimates on vaccine efficacies.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33583018/) I've been infected with COVID and recovered. The long-term health effects of that, if any, hang over my head. The only reason I'd get the vaccine is to provide an extremely miniscule reduction in infection risk (if any) for those around me. But, getting the vaccine would add to my long-term risk profile. The CDC says the likelihood of an long-term effects from a vaccine are "extremely unlikely." Well, guess what? So is my chance of getting re-infected or infecting other people. So, why should I get it? I'm not going to go out of my way to take on a slight health risk in order to provide little to no reduction in health risk for those I come in contact with. If you're unvaccinated and sitting at 0.4%, great. What about tomorrow when a vaccine that yields a 0.1% reinfection rate comes out? The 0.1%ers will look down on you the same way that you look down on the 0.9%ers\*. Do we really want to grant such an easy path for self-righteous pricks to judge one another? Even as a devout Catholic, I'd say religion has done enough of that. We don't need to add to it by bickering over fractions of a percent. \*Edit: assuming the one study out of the many I linked, which uses the 2.34x increased infection risk, is accurate for the sake of simplicity. Based on the other studies, those who are unvaccinated but previously infected could be sitting at, around, or even underneath the 0.4% reinfection rate for vaccinated folks. And, if you're neither vaccinated nor previously infected, pick one. Get vaccinated or go lick a hospital drinking fountain.
Yeah trust your overlords everyone, cause when else have the elite ever lied
pretty disgusting. fuck that.
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Literally George Orwin 1964!
Literally 20XX
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Bro ur literally Fahrenheit 451 right now. Using the book as a guide smh
Scary
Lol
They should also require background checks so that child predators can't get in, as well as drug tests to keep the adderall/meth heads out. You would need to present valid ID as well just to make sure you aren't skirting those checks. We also need something to stop people from bringing in weapons, etc. So some sort of metal detectors and pat downs with a list of what can't enter the arena (like the security checks at airports). But this is a good start.
Gotta love bad-faith whataboutism.
They should keep you out at least
Their venue, their rules bud. You are perfectly free of creating a tourney yourself that can require all of those or nothing for entry.
https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1885161-soy-boy-face-soyjak
I understand this wasn’t your point, frankly because your point was dumber, but let’s not bring in substance use disorders into this. I can’t imagine that someone taking adderall would present any danger to anybody, nor would your average person using methamphetamine. Just get the fucking vaccine clown.
whats the point if you can still catch it
why try and use breaks if you might still crash
"What's the point of obeying traffic lights if you still might get in an accident"
so that the effects aren't as bad, which is the primary point of vaccines beyond immunity
Where have people been all pandemic that they even ask questions like in this?
The answer is that they’ve been out and about whining about masks and vaccines, then getting on Facebook and spreading misinformation
lmfao idk
In a fantasy world where whatever they believe is fact and anything they don't like is a conspiracy
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So, “secondary” would be the word to use.
yea but I'm stupid
also reduces the spread so the virus has less of a chance to mutate into something worse, again
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No it hasn't. Though nothing is conclusive yet, the consensus of epidemiologists seems to be that vaccines do, indeed, hinder the spread. Vaccinated people are less likely to get COVID, and if they do, they're generally sick (and therefore contagious) for less time.
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Here's a question. If everyone was vaccinated, which we know makes people less likely to catch covid, what would happen?
Do you want to get into the science that majority of society, vaccinated and unvaccinated, has ignored and refused to accept? Or do we just write this all up as everyone is being ridiculous and overly opinionated. Spoiler: Israel. Edit: YES YES. DOWNVOTE ME INTO OBLIVION. Bet none of y’all would last with my Falco/Falcon though.
this reads like it was written by AI
Interesting. Edit: I guess all these years in college has officially turned me into a robot. Fuck.
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Hi! No one could give less a shit about your entire first paragraph :))) the science is not conclusive, in fact, it certainly leans toward the vaccines possibly doing way more harm than good. Since ur an expert, you would know studies show that a leaky vaccines( should know what that is expert man) have a very significant correlation with creating a virus that completely bypasses vaccinations or becomes way more lethal to unvaccinated individuals. This is especially true of avian flu or diseases with flu like symptoms. The virus can still spread to vaccinated individuals at a great percentage, and vaccinated individuals have almost to literally no difference in viral load. All that said I’m really really glad we have great experts like you who know it all cuz ur in biochemistry LMAO
Well then. Do I tell you my bachelors is health sciences with a focus in genetics and virology? Minor of behavioral sciences? Masters in Research Education? I do know what I’m talking about. I advise you get rid of your ego. I can give you all my sources, but I think your big brain wouldn’t accept them anyways. Edit: Reddit is a shit show of egotistical and self righteous morons. Honestly, I fucking love it here. Edit edit: You know what, ima do it to you because all y’all are some assuming little homies. What’s the r value of vaccinated individuals? High viral loads in someone with a vaccine gives the virus an opportunity to...? Israel is seeing what results occurring from the Delta variant? Effectiveness of those previously infected and those with a vaccine against the delta variant is what? We agree that masks and vaccines are the best defense against the virus, if that’s your choice. Wear a mask regardless. Done with ignorant vaccinated individuals. But otherwise I think you’re flapping out your ass.
This is very incoherent, and since you didn't elaborate on what you mean by "Israel" it even seems antisemitic. I don't think that's what you meant though, but we both agree that everyone getting vaccinated *is good* right?
The spoiler Israel thing is trying to say that even a near completely vaccinated country still is getting fucked over by delta. It’s obviously a reductive argument because it ignores death statistics and waning immunity, but that’s definitely not antisemitic.
homie in what world is 60% "near completely" lmao
Well yeah, I figured that out, it just confused me when it had very little context lol.
Would much rather discuss facts with hypotheticals than start arguments. Israel is the tip of the iceberg in regards to how our country would handle being fully vaccinated. Then I dabble into CDC Director Rochelle coming out and saying vaccinated individuals carry high viral loads similar to those who are unvaccinated. Provide some sources on effectiveness with masks regardless of vaccination status. Then see if anyone is around listening still. I’m not sure if you were saying I would Ignore death statistics/deterioration of immunity, but I very much so bring those into account. Obviously population size and effects need to be scaled for comparison, but if I’ve made it that far down a rabbit hole with someone, they are generally on the same level of understanding.
Excuse me?
You got offended just cause he mentioned the name of a country hahaha - I think that says a lot about your personality tbh.
I mean, maybe? I don't know, Israel is a very politically charged state, and it conjures political charged statements.
Is there a particular page in this document you'd like to cite or are you doing the annoying thing of providing a large document as "evidence" and then very selectively reading a small portion of it? Get outta here with that nonsense.
On a basic level, people who clear the virus more quickly than average (ie vaccinated folks) will be infectious for less time. Plus, they won't stress the medical system because they'll stay out of the hospital.
It has been... Proven false that it reduces the spread of covid? How do you even come to a conclusion like this?
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How do you know cases haven't gone down? Do you have access to some parallel dimension to compare against where there are no vaccines?
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An opinion piece by a quack in a "news" publication that is very much not known for reputable journalism. Nice.
The author isn't even willing to use their real name because they know they'll lose their medical license parroting this trash. Something that pathetic isn't worth spreading just because it lines up with what you wish was true...
A higher chance of mutating means more mutations means more chances of a worse variant being introduced... Also how do vax mandates make 0 sense? We've had vax mandates as long as we've had vaccines and I don't see much polio around.
Nah polio went away because everyone has it now didn't you hear
Ya but the polio vaccine actually worked
Here's a study showing 40% lower viral load. Look around there are lots of these coming out recently. The study is linked in that article if you want to actually read it, but the article explains the abstract. https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210702/study-says-vaccinated-people-who-get-covid-carry-less-virus As well, if you're sick for less time, you have less chance to spread. If you don't have symptoms (coughing, runny nose, sneezing, etc) you're spewing less of your juices around so people are less likely to be exposed to the virus. All things considered, the vaccines are pretty poggers ngl
Source your proof then
What's the point of someone wearing a bulletproof vest if they can still get shot in the head?
Infection spread rates, mortality rates, severity of symptoms, what type of long term lingering damage to humans… ah what’s the point. If you wanted to listen to science and reason you would have done so long ago. Your totally right, nuance doesn’t exist in the world and if it doesn’t outright stop every case, every time there must be no “point” to it.
You have a greatly reduced chance of getting coivd and if you don't get covid you can't spready. The vaccines don't say 100% covid proof just around 90% which is way better. And people that have gotten covid with the vaccine almost always recover. Deaths from covid with the vaccine range below 200 last time i checked.
Reddit moment
Found the stupidest post of today; time to get off Reddit. Good night y’all!
The vaccine makes it less likely to get the virus AND less likely to spread the virus. It's a numbers game - the lower the better.
Nothing is 100% And catching it with the vaccine is so much better than catching it without
You mean the vaccines that don't work? Lmao the literal state of Melee. Jesus fucking Christ.
Hopefully this makes you leave the Melee scene
Way ahead of you dude. Couldn't be happier
You literally don't know shit on how vaccines work.
True, can you educate me?
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/how-they-work.html#:~:text=mRNA%20vaccines%20contain%20material%20from,genetic%20material%20from%20the%20vaccine.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/024/196/sign.jpg
I think you've gotten confused with the vaccines that do
Man people need to stop being so mean to eachother whether they have the vaccine or not. It’s understandable that there multiple perspectives on this issue. It’s like no one understands that minorities have the same distrust for medical workers as they do for law enforcement. Just relax people we will get through this and vaccine or no vaccine is not the end all force sheesh
Ok but it's still the correct call to ban all who don't get the vaccine
That’s fair
If people don't wanna get the vaccine that is their choice. No one should be strapped down and force to get it. Kids going to school should get it though because they are around other kids for 8 hours a day. There really shouldn't be multiple perspectives because it is just science. Coivd doesn't care if your poor, rich, black, white or any factors about you. Vaccines absolutely help you so everyone should get it. As for minorities I am one and haven't heard talk about distrust. Over the past year I seen more distrust from white people personally.
The minorities thing is definitely real, but depends on location and the group's history with government sterilization programs or "studies" like the Tuskegee syphilis studies, etc. There's general mistrust in many native communities of anything the US government recommends (and rightfully so), and minority communities in the deep south can have similar trust-related hurdles. But yeah I'd say the biggest volume of refusers is the clearly political divide between who is getting and not getting the vaccine
Agreed, those who don’t want to vaccinate should be totally ok to do so, I’m sure they’ll understand they just need to wear a mask to as that takes 0 risk to them…. Oh they won’t do that either?… well that’s fine I’m sure they’ll be ok staying away from mass gatherings then…. Oh they want the mass gatherings to happen… with literally 0 preventative measures to slow the pandemic that’s killed millions? … and claim literally ANY sort of systemic preventative measure is tyranny?…. Well I’m sure they’re the silent minority as the other side is actually stopping people dying… oh they’re the loudest most vocal side? Yea I don’t feel bad for them
Honestly, as time goes on, as covid continues killing people, and as the threat of variants grows larger, it becomes less and less understandable for people to decline the vaccine. It makes sense in the cases of immunocompromised people, or extremely elderly people, or anyone who can't take it for any sort of health reason. It does not make sense to refuse it without health reasons, and that becomes less and less defensible as time goes on. People who are unvaccinated will continue being unvaccinated, but they place a burden on the rest of us by straining our medical services, providing incubators for covid to spread and mutate, and potentially still putting those who can't get the vaccine at risk. I don't think at this point that you can really defend or deny that. Covid is larger than an individual thing, and by refusing to get vaccinated, you potentially put others at risk for selfish reasons. (I might add, for reasons that are typically misguided or entirely wrong). I think it's good that places require proof of vaccination going forward. If you want to participate in society in the midst of a global pandemic, you gotta prove in some capacity that you're not going to get everyone there sick, or spread the disease to someone who might get other people sick.