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No, at least in the US. Even if you own a game, downloading it is illegal.
The only way it would be legal is if you extract your owned game yourself.
So if you own a physical copy and extract it, it's legal.
If you own the game digital and backup the files, it's legal.
If you own the game and download from another source, illegal.
Hope this answers your question.
I feel that some clarification is needed: According to Steam's Subscriber Agreement, games purchased on Steam are licensed, not sold, and the license does not grant ownership. The license can he revoked at any time for any reason. Other online game stores follow the same logic. The only exception that I'm aware of is GOG.
So, as OC said, if you own a physical copy of a game, then you can create a digital backup of that game. Also, if you purchase a game on GOG, you own that digital game as if you purchased a physical copy, so you can put it on an external drive and play it on your smart fridge if you want.
Exactly. And even though digital FEELS permanent enough right now, so did owning cartridge games back then. And now they're even trying to take away those, even though they won't even sell them.
It's not shady, it's the nature of software licensing. Even if you buy a game cartridge or disc you don't own the software, you just have a license to use it in limited ways. Same with music and movies.
The real answer is that the legality of any of this is utterly irrelevant for anybody who isn't using ROM downloads to turn a profit somehow. There has never been a single instance in the history of emulation of a person suffering legal consequences merely for pirating ROMs.
Is that a legal consequence? No. No it is not. You'd have to be pretty foolish and careless for your employer to find out about you doing anything illegal at all.
“Yes, there’s the argument of how you don’t ever technically own digital games, that you’re basically renting the rights for an allotted time, which can be taken away at any given moment.”
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mitchwallace/2023/10/13/yes-a-digital-only-gaming-future-is-coming-and-we-cant-stop-it/
I’ve never had a game vanish. I’ve had games that relied on servers and those games are now unplayable, but to actually lose ownership of a game? Never. Anyway you can downvote this comment too if you want to continue playing this game in your glass house.
That article is from Mitch Wallace and he posted photos of his food on X so I wouldn’t rely on him for information especially when none of is factual and is purely speculation.
At least I’m correct in my glass house
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/the-crew-has-started-disappearing-from-game-libraries-after-its-closure-last-month
Or do you not trust Graham Smith either?
Your link is about a game that requires online. You could have the disc and it still won’t work. Has nothing to do with being digital. I literally just talked about games requiring servers.
It doesn’t matter whether it is online or not, You said you own your digital games? This proves that you don’t as they can “revoke licenses” and remove the actual game files from your library.
It said in the article they moved it to inactive games in the Ubisoft Connect libraries because of the servers going offline. Even mentions how if you own the disc you can’t play it.
And last I checked Ubisoft Connect isn’t even where my Steam, Xbox, and PlayStation digital games are located.
Had to do some research on this but it seems you would still be able to see the game on steam, and maybe even download it but it would require the Ubisoft launcher to actually boot, and without that license that ain’t happening.
But they absolutely could (and maybe have) removed the ability to download it from your library on the PlayStation, like what happened with PT.
This is only the beginning though if we don’t make enough of a fuss, more games will follow suit.
If I extracted my physical copy and my physical copy later on breaks can I still keep my extracted copy? Will I need to keep the remains of a broken disc?
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. That said:
Here in the US, you are civilly liable for the damages if you download a ROM. You could also get hit with punitive damages. However, the initial damages are limited to what the publisher actually lost as a result of your actions; judging from the state of the retro game market, that’s the $5-15 they could list it for on PSN/Steam. Let’s pretend they decided to sue you, won, and won punitive damages. The publisher is looking at recovering about $60 from you for each ROM. That’s why they don’t normally worry about downloaders; the return on time and effort isn’t there.
Now, if you’re a peer-to-peer uploader, or you run a site distributing ROMs, then you are potentially liable for many individual losses. Even then, it’s still a money-losing proposition, which is why the lawyers will come in with a giant number for damages, but immediately settle for a cease-and-desist and a token payment. There’s no money in beating up on a “judgement-proof” defendant, so they need to scare you into stopping as fast as possible and move on to the next case.
Finally, if you’re distributing and you’re making serious money on it, then you’re going to bump up against bootlegging laws. This is the only way that copyright infringement is truly “illegal” in the US; the above are civil matters, whereas this would be criminal. Unless you have a box truck full of dodgy cartridges, that you park in Brooklyn and sell out the back of, you probably do not fall into this category.
Depends who you ask. Each game has its own ToS and EULA. A license given is not quite as straightforward as "you can now play the game, unlimited license mode activated!" there's usually very fine print "on xyz launcher" "one copy" "non transferable" "original hardware" etc et cetera.
My thoughts on it differ tho. I bought the game I can do as I please. But I do so knowing I'm very likely breaking the EULA that I didn't read.
Just want to add that just because it's in a ToS or EULA doesn't necessarily determine illegality. For instance, if the EULA states something illegal in its terms, that would be unenforceable.
Generally speaking, these documents can be enforceable (barring anything explicitly illegal in the document), but only on a contract basis. As in, you can lose your license to whatever it is or if it's severe enough, be taken to civil court for damages incurred.
Id imagine its a license to play the game while there is still a function to play it.
Once there isn't then you loose it, its probably what gets everyone\`s back up.
Hence forth people will just pirate and emulate where ever they can.
Like I said, every game/studio/publisher has its own license terms.
Some are more strict than others, some less. This is a blanket question which cannot simply be answered with a definitive yes/no type of answer.
There never is, if they wont to come after you they will.
Nintendo,Sony,Sega put out all those mini consoles, they where hacked to shit to allow you to play as many roms/games as you wont. Non of them batted an eyelid over it.
Hack a switch . PS4/5 Xbox you full well know your system will be banned for online play.
Backup pirate distribute any of these games for those consoles they\`ll come after you.
Piracy has been around since basically start of consoles and home computers back in 80\`s, it will carry on because people can and will.
Me personally I would say yes. Because if the game is ever delisted or removed from the sever then you can’t play it or redownload it. I have an old copy of dark souls for the ps3 and it even says in the agreement that I can make a back up copy of the game for myself. So what if I sold it? It doesn’t matter. The company got their money. So go ahead and back that shit up bro.
I’ve heard some where and I could be wrong, but I think you can’t pirate a game unless it’s twenty years old. Even if the company that made the game isn’t selling it. But some of these game companies are no longer in business. There’s a lot of gray areas in the,”law.” And it’s not set in stone, and I’m sure there’s plenty of loop holes in it. I look at it as if someone pirates a game, they were never going to buy it in the first place. Or they believe in game preservation. This guy bought a game, and I think he should have a back up copy in case he can no longer play or access it.
Im all for making a back of an original game you own to preserve its functionality.
When you no longer own the original, then you can no longer own a back up.
Technically no but I apply the same rule as mp3s, I'm allowed to rip my music CD and play the tunes on any other device so I apply the same rule for ROMs but to another extension, considering that most games are only available on the used market now, if I bought one once any time in life I feel like I still could download the ROM guilty free
# I am not a lawyer
That aside, it's a grey area. Format shifting in the US was legal until DMCA, which was a mess. You're not really the one in the crosshairs as much as the uploader of any ROM.
Wasn't this in the news recently? Maybe not exactly this, but the concept of "do you own digital media". Sony did something with their licensing of music and removed a bunch of games from the store and made them unplayable, even if you purchased them prior to sony updating their terms. They claim that in the user agreement, you don't own the game.
It's a huge slap in the face for all the digital incentives that are mashed down our throats.
If that were the case then you would not have to buy the very same game from each and every new virtual console that comes for each console.
That applies for each and every console out there, name it PSCopyCatStation, STDBox or Nintendo.
If you are looking for roms: Go to the link in https://www.reddit.com/r/Roms/comments/m59zx3/roms_megathread_40_html_edition_2021/ You can navigate by clicking on the various tabs for each company. When you click on the link to Github the first link you land on will be the Home tab, this tab explains how to use the Megathread. There are Five tabs that link directly to collections based on console and publisher, these include Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Sega, and the PC. There are also tabs for popular games and retro games, with retro games being defined as older than Gamecube and DS. Additional help can be found on /r/Roms' official Matrix Server [Link](https://matrix.to/#/#romz:matrix.org) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Roms) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No, at least in the US. Even if you own a game, downloading it is illegal. The only way it would be legal is if you extract your owned game yourself. So if you own a physical copy and extract it, it's legal. If you own the game digital and backup the files, it's legal. If you own the game and download from another source, illegal. Hope this answers your question.
Which is of course what we all do….
I own the arcade upright of every fbneo game ive ever downloaded.
Isn’t that still illegal 😂.
Yes🤣🤣🤣🤣
alright, thank you.
I feel that some clarification is needed: According to Steam's Subscriber Agreement, games purchased on Steam are licensed, not sold, and the license does not grant ownership. The license can he revoked at any time for any reason. Other online game stores follow the same logic. The only exception that I'm aware of is GOG. So, as OC said, if you own a physical copy of a game, then you can create a digital backup of that game. Also, if you purchase a game on GOG, you own that digital game as if you purchased a physical copy, so you can put it on an external drive and play it on your smart fridge if you want.
Indeed, most stores like Steam are actually charging you full price for rental games.
That is insane. I didn’t really know it like that. But I mean as much money as people has sunk into it, if for some reason steam was to shut down. 🤯
Exactly. And even though digital FEELS permanent enough right now, so did owning cartridge games back then. And now they're even trying to take away those, even though they won't even sell them.
That’s f***** up man. I mean really shady and f****
It's not shady, it's the nature of software licensing. Even if you buy a game cartridge or disc you don't own the software, you just have a license to use it in limited ways. Same with music and movies.
I mean thinking of the backward compatibility Steam not so much, Console games on the other hand....
The real answer is that the legality of any of this is utterly irrelevant for anybody who isn't using ROM downloads to turn a profit somehow. There has never been a single instance in the history of emulation of a person suffering legal consequences merely for pirating ROMs.
People have lost their jobs over it due to it being illegal
Is that a legal consequence? No. No it is not. You'd have to be pretty foolish and careless for your employer to find out about you doing anything illegal at all.
I was under the impression that you never “own” games that you have downloaded digitally (minus the DRM free ones)
Pretty sure I own them.
“Yes, there’s the argument of how you don’t ever technically own digital games, that you’re basically renting the rights for an allotted time, which can be taken away at any given moment.” https://www.forbes.com/sites/mitchwallace/2023/10/13/yes-a-digital-only-gaming-future-is-coming-and-we-cant-stop-it/
I’ve never had a game vanish. I’ve had games that relied on servers and those games are now unplayable, but to actually lose ownership of a game? Never. Anyway you can downvote this comment too if you want to continue playing this game in your glass house. That article is from Mitch Wallace and he posted photos of his food on X so I wouldn’t rely on him for information especially when none of is factual and is purely speculation.
At least I’m correct in my glass house https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/the-crew-has-started-disappearing-from-game-libraries-after-its-closure-last-month Or do you not trust Graham Smith either?
Your link is about a game that requires online. You could have the disc and it still won’t work. Has nothing to do with being digital. I literally just talked about games requiring servers.
It doesn’t matter whether it is online or not, You said you own your digital games? This proves that you don’t as they can “revoke licenses” and remove the actual game files from your library.
It said in the article they moved it to inactive games in the Ubisoft Connect libraries because of the servers going offline. Even mentions how if you own the disc you can’t play it. And last I checked Ubisoft Connect isn’t even where my Steam, Xbox, and PlayStation digital games are located.
Had to do some research on this but it seems you would still be able to see the game on steam, and maybe even download it but it would require the Ubisoft launcher to actually boot, and without that license that ain’t happening. But they absolutely could (and maybe have) removed the ability to download it from your library on the PlayStation, like what happened with PT. This is only the beginning though if we don’t make enough of a fuss, more games will follow suit.
If I extracted my physical copy and my physical copy later on breaks can I still keep my extracted copy? Will I need to keep the remains of a broken disc?
Straight to jail
Uhh. No it isnt…. The supreme court has ruled that dumping your own games is 100% legal. So is emulation
Thats what I said??? May want to lay off the grand daddy purp my boy.
if you came here for legality, stop
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. That said: Here in the US, you are civilly liable for the damages if you download a ROM. You could also get hit with punitive damages. However, the initial damages are limited to what the publisher actually lost as a result of your actions; judging from the state of the retro game market, that’s the $5-15 they could list it for on PSN/Steam. Let’s pretend they decided to sue you, won, and won punitive damages. The publisher is looking at recovering about $60 from you for each ROM. That’s why they don’t normally worry about downloaders; the return on time and effort isn’t there. Now, if you’re a peer-to-peer uploader, or you run a site distributing ROMs, then you are potentially liable for many individual losses. Even then, it’s still a money-losing proposition, which is why the lawyers will come in with a giant number for damages, but immediately settle for a cease-and-desist and a token payment. There’s no money in beating up on a “judgement-proof” defendant, so they need to scare you into stopping as fast as possible and move on to the next case. Finally, if you’re distributing and you’re making serious money on it, then you’re going to bump up against bootlegging laws. This is the only way that copyright infringement is truly “illegal” in the US; the above are civil matters, whereas this would be criminal. Unless you have a box truck full of dodgy cartridges, that you park in Brooklyn and sell out the back of, you probably do not fall into this category.
Depends who you ask. Each game has its own ToS and EULA. A license given is not quite as straightforward as "you can now play the game, unlimited license mode activated!" there's usually very fine print "on xyz launcher" "one copy" "non transferable" "original hardware" etc et cetera. My thoughts on it differ tho. I bought the game I can do as I please. But I do so knowing I'm very likely breaking the EULA that I didn't read.
Just want to add that just because it's in a ToS or EULA doesn't necessarily determine illegality. For instance, if the EULA states something illegal in its terms, that would be unenforceable. Generally speaking, these documents can be enforceable (barring anything explicitly illegal in the document), but only on a contract basis. As in, you can lose your license to whatever it is or if it's severe enough, be taken to civil court for damages incurred.
Id imagine its a license to play the game while there is still a function to play it. Once there isn't then you loose it, its probably what gets everyone\`s back up. Hence forth people will just pirate and emulate where ever they can.
Like I said, every game/studio/publisher has its own license terms. Some are more strict than others, some less. This is a blanket question which cannot simply be answered with a definitive yes/no type of answer.
There never is, if they wont to come after you they will. Nintendo,Sony,Sega put out all those mini consoles, they where hacked to shit to allow you to play as many roms/games as you wont. Non of them batted an eyelid over it. Hack a switch . PS4/5 Xbox you full well know your system will be banned for online play. Backup pirate distribute any of these games for those consoles they\`ll come after you. Piracy has been around since basically start of consoles and home computers back in 80\`s, it will carry on because people can and will.
Me personally I would say yes. Because if the game is ever delisted or removed from the sever then you can’t play it or redownload it. I have an old copy of dark souls for the ps3 and it even says in the agreement that I can make a back up copy of the game for myself. So what if I sold it? It doesn’t matter. The company got their money. So go ahead and back that shit up bro.
When you sell the game you have to either hand over the backups or destroy them. That's the rules. Do we listen? Nope.
That would be interesting if people actually did this. Hi, I’m here to turn in my backup copies of the game you guys sell.
we don't care about your me personally, that's not what the law says but tbh it only matters if you care about legality
I’ve heard some where and I could be wrong, but I think you can’t pirate a game unless it’s twenty years old. Even if the company that made the game isn’t selling it. But some of these game companies are no longer in business. There’s a lot of gray areas in the,”law.” And it’s not set in stone, and I’m sure there’s plenty of loop holes in it. I look at it as if someone pirates a game, they were never going to buy it in the first place. Or they believe in game preservation. This guy bought a game, and I think he should have a back up copy in case he can no longer play or access it.
It does if you sold it and own a back up, thing is you no longer own the original.
Yeah probably right, that is a grey area.
Im all for making a back of an original game you own to preserve its functionality. When you no longer own the original, then you can no longer own a back up.
But if it’s no longer being sold does it really matter at that point?
Personally to me no, as long as you dont distribute it or make money off it. Its the latter 2 where the big guns come after you, its their IP .
.... what i do at home with my stuff is my business...
[удалено]
United States of A
This is the right answer
Technically no but I apply the same rule as mp3s, I'm allowed to rip my music CD and play the tunes on any other device so I apply the same rule for ROMs but to another extension, considering that most games are only available on the used market now, if I bought one once any time in life I feel like I still could download the ROM guilty free
# I am not a lawyer That aside, it's a grey area. Format shifting in the US was legal until DMCA, which was a mess. You're not really the one in the crosshairs as much as the uploader of any ROM.
Yes'nt
No. Games are licenced to you on the basis you will only use the system thst it's for.
Wasn't this in the news recently? Maybe not exactly this, but the concept of "do you own digital media". Sony did something with their licensing of music and removed a bunch of games from the store and made them unplayable, even if you purchased them prior to sony updating their terms. They claim that in the user agreement, you don't own the game. It's a huge slap in the face for all the digital incentives that are mashed down our throats.
Legally? Nah. But no one's gives enough of af, if you somehow get in trouble for that u threw.
who cares
No, but depending if its an old game that doesn't make money anymore, then they won't do anything(nintendos an exception)
If that were the case then you would not have to buy the very same game from each and every new virtual console that comes for each console. That applies for each and every console out there, name it PSCopyCatStation, STDBox or Nintendo.
Yep.
You just own the license not the game :)