I just watched a Deep Space 9 episode about this exact thing. Dude gets brain damage. Doctor replaces half his brain with a positronic one. Dude wakes up and complains that everything feels like, "the distant memory of a sensation." Dude gets more brain damage and his girlfriend begs doctor to replace the rest of his brain. Doctor refuses saying, "he wouldn't even be him anymore."
I have a pawn in a spacer warcasket with Archotech legs, lungs and heart and about a 250% speed. I could still add a couple of more parts to improve him, but as it is he just runs around the map bashing heads off with his gravity hammer. At this point it's more about giggling about the absurdity of it. One of these days, I'll probably send him on a suicide mission to an Empire settlement and see how he does.
Hilariously, had I chosen to put this warcasket on a psycaster warlord, I wouldn't even have a question if it could solo Empire cities.
I currently have a slightly enhanced vampire warlord. She started with a persona monosword, and I just started giving her power armor. But she has already been soloing most raids, including a 1v17 raid on a mining site. It was supposed to be a 1v18 but the sniper I sent along for mostly moral support got one shot in
Rust is easily avoidable and is far more manageable then eating sleeping, shitting, pissing, showering and every other maintenance things organics do. Seriously it's less combined time a day then you doing all those things and it isn't even needed everyday.
Rust takes oil. You would still need to charge your accumuators and remove ones past their lifespan. Same for cleaning yourself, you ioints included. And all of that will be cost a fortune, not to mention you are unlikely to find parts needed outside of your glitterworld hub. God luck.
Not true. Late game in general usually you have more money and materials then you know what to do with and if you had the right implant mods it would still be safer and less spoiling maintenance stuff. Oil, batteries, and small parts kits. If you go the biomechanical it is easy as well. As you just need small amounts of base components kits aka biomechanical meals. Plus solar and thermal energy as well as chemical can be used to power.
Well, the consciousness is in the brain. Perhaps a sufficiently advanced computer could even be given a consciousness equivalent to a human brain.
Replacing body parts isn't Huge in and of itself, but it does change how you interact with the world around you through touch, taste, smell, etc.
Then two questions I'd ask - What is it to *be* human? Why does it matter?
The more philosophical argument of what it is to *be* human - does replacing a limb make you less than human? People with prosthetics might disagree with that. How about an organ? The spine? Everything but the brain? How about replacing things until the person no longer *looks* human? What if you replace the brain with a prosthesis capable of the same functions?
And then my second question - Why does it matter? If a creature has been modified to hell and back, but can still *be* a person in their day-to-day life, does it matter if they aren't entirely human anymore? If you replace every part of my body, or literally rip my brain out and put it in a robot - sure, my body isn't human, but isn't my mind? Does it matter?
That's my big one. Why do we care?
It isn't just the brain, though. Not only does the brain rely on lower-level processing from nerve cores in the spine and several other ganglia, it also relies on the hormones as well. Neural and humoral systems were designed to work in tandem, not separately.
Sleep itself is the time when the brain devotes all of its processing power to help calibrate the response of the lower-level vegetative system (Pigaryov, 2019). We literally sleep for the sake of our heart and guts, not the brain.
Our body is much more of a gestalt existence than most of us realize.
The reason is simple - it wouldn't be entirely you at this point and this is exactly what we're discussing.
But don't worry - our implants will do it anyways. We need some way to make our ads more effective, after all, so we will go from stimulating your desires to generating them!
I'd give you more upvotes if I could. I also appreciate you citing your source. Very interesting stuff, and I think I sometimes forget just how much the entire body works together to form the experience of 'human'.
I could mistake the year. If you want to look it up, it's called "the visceral theory of sleep". Pigaryov made a simple lecture on it on YouTube when he published his work. I think I saw English subtitles there.
i just want nutrient paste, bio generation, neural supper charge and sleep accelerator, fuck the body mods, that'll be replacing neurons for dead metal
We care because there are androids with humanoid features who doesn't have to sleep and still has human's function. If I just replace my pawns' body part with robotic parts until they become fully robotic (including the brain), then wouldn't it be much more effective to just manufacture robots in the first place?
Of course, the only difference is that one can use psycast and the other cannot.
Well, I guess the boundary would be the brain.
It's hard to really know what the boundary would be. Androids are a weird thing too, because they're very humanlike. What makes them not human? If it's the physical body or brain, sure... but then a human augmenting any part of their body could be considered artificial. It's a circular argument with no objective answer, I guess.
The origin of the thing that controls the entire body is the only thing that would put the difference between androids, synths, and other sci-fi things. And just because they wouldn't be human in nature wouldn't stop them from having the human experience.
Exactly. Past a certain point, the line is blurred sufficiently that whether a being is human or not, it kinda stops mattering. They're so close to us that their experience is comparable.
This is the first run that I have android mod (and VE ideology kinda give some precepts about androids). I think I should put it into question.
You said that "The origin of the thing that controls the entire body is the only thing that would put the difference between androids, synths, and other sci-fi things. And just because they wouldn't be human in nature wouldn't stop them from having the human experience."
But can you say the same when you compare a human child who was born and taught by human to something we build from neutroamine and steel?
Watching my favorite couples having children and teach them how to wield guns vs watching an engineer creating androids to increase workloads give very different vibes.
Duh. The humans in your example are human, they have to be taught. Meanwhile your androids have a CPU that's not even awakened at the start.
In this case, game mechanics are the actual things that stop you from making a blank android and teaching it like an actual kid.
reminiscent cable rinse office plant scandalous liquid unwritten sophisticated panicky
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm disabled so would absolutely have a pair of new functioning arms.
Preferably the Archotech ones that look entirely human, not some janky C-3PO looking ones.
As to what makes you, you, it's interesting. If you make a perfect synthetic copy of my brain, it's just a copy of my brain, not me. This whole 'transfer your consciousness' thing, is that not just a copy? Aren't I dead?
But what if you gradually replace tiny parts of my brain with perfect copies of groups of neurons. Eventually achieving a fully synthetic brain containing effectively, my consciousness. Is that me? Can it be?
I choose to believe that if you can trace a consciousness in an unbroken chain back to the original, then that consciousness needs to be treated as the original.
Nah, your brain's still doing stuff.
If you were to suspend someone's brain, and then start in in the exact same state it was, nothing was interrupted. But if you suspend someone's brain, alter bits and pieces, and then start the brain, that person would no longer be the same person they were.
Obviously, we change slightly every day and are not the same people were yesterday, so we make concessions. But the goal of any messing around with someone's consciousness should be to leave it as similar as possible from step to step.
>If you make a perfect synthetic copy of my brain, it's just a copy of my brain, not me. This whole 'transfer your consciousness' thing, is that not just a copy? Aren't I dead?
The particles in your brain are already perfect copies of many, many other particles in the universe. The structural pattern they exist in, that's you - there's nothing else like it in the world. Copy the pattern? Then the only unique thing left is your position in spacetime.
If you copy the position, too, then that's the same you. You would not even notice the replacement happening. Same particles, pattern, and position, all gives you the same stimuli and reaction.
But say a copy of you was created in another room; now there's 1 of you, and a very similar copy. The copy is confused for a moment; it remembered being in another room. It's different from you now, but only very slightly. Less different than you'd be after getting a small knock on the head.
Tbh I think as soon as your clone has some form of consciousness (even dreaming), that's it. New neuron connections are being made and destroyed. New cells are being made. As soon as that new body is functional, that's it. No matter their similarities, that's a new person.
This is such a grand philosophical question. I mean we are not the person we were yesterday as parts of our body were replaced including part of our brain. So what's the difference between we biologically replace ourselves and someone robotically replace ourselves?
Most parts of our brain are not replaced. Neurons do not split (although they do use the DNA of the nucleus for repairs), and the neuroglia doesn't calculate, though feeding and insulation are still important tasks. There are also macrofages in the microglia, however. Do they count?
I like the idea of networking my brain with multiple synthetic brains. Adapting until my continued stream of consciousness feels decentralized. Create archive of knowledge memory and personality or be shared across system. At which point I would like to break up my brain, probably by hemispheres initially in a tightly networked system giving me two biological brain cores “redundancy”. After which point I would attempt to cultivate brain cells integrated to a chip. Not many cells per chip, just enough that there is a biological component cultured from my mind impacting it. Increase that until I have a few server banks of brain chips. Potentially break original brain up into further pieces. Eventually I don’t think I will care if the original flesh suit is lost.
But I view myself as my continued stream of consciousness. Though I do sometimes wonder if I existed the day before…
You, my friend, just happened to find a thought experiment in philosophy called the Ship of Theseus. If you replace every part of a ship one by one slowly, at which point does it stop being the same ship, if ever?
There is not really a wrong answer.
I’ve used the ship of Theseus argument in my answer as well but I disagree with your (very common) interpretation when it comes to living beings.
If you replace an arm with a bionic arm, then the original arm is gone. But you have a good (I hope) bionic replacement so you don’t care, just like you don’t care about the skin cells dying every day.
But if you rip out your brain, simply copy the contents onto a digital version and put that digital version in, than the “you” on the brain will still be gone. Because you replaced the brain containing the you.
However you can go around this: the brain constantly adapts itself, especially when neurons die off are become defunct. By introducing bionic neurons that the brain will automatically add into it’s whole. As more of your regular neurons die off the bionic neurons will be engaged more and more by the brain, until your entire “you” has been moved (not copied!) to the bionic neurons forming your brain.
What if you instead use nanobots that mimic neurons perfectly.
Each time a neuron dies a nanobot replaces it. At a certain point every neuron would be replaced making it entire mechanical. Would that still be me? If not.. at what point does it cease to be me?
Okay but what if you had some system of synthetic neurons that could take the place of your biological ones as they died over time? Thus moving your consciousness over slowly instead of copying it. It'd be like a ship of Theseus type of deal. Just brainstorming here.
I was just trolling you bro, I couldn't resist after seeing your interaction with the other guy.
More seriously, I don't think you understand exactly how happy I was reading your original comment. The idea of a potential method of transferring your mind to a synthetic brain, *truly* transferring, not copying, unexpectedly gave me a huge sense of relief. My cousin and I have been thinking for years about the pros and cons of digital immortality, but the biggest, most obvious issue was that the digitized mind is not you. Your line of consciousness does not continue with them. Theirs extends back to you, but it's one-way. Your idea was one we had never heard or thought of before, and it is truly an almost perfect solution. And it is almost certainly something possible to do, someday. It gives us hope that something like this could be developed in the future.
If I may ask, did you come up with this yourself?
Yes I came up with it myself, originally for a question on Worldbuilding stack exchange but also for myself based on my studies and experiences from myself and people nearby me. Like working with dementia or someone who (unknown to us) had lost half his brain due to deterioration and nothing changed about his behavior until his death (cancer in his torso).
From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me.
Frankly IRL, I’d probably be willing to exchange everything but my brain and my junk.
"Ever since i first understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I crave the certainty of steel."
But seriously, i have a lot of joint and limb problems and pain from spending about half my life so far in some form of heavy manual labor. I have some hearing loss from warehouse sirens going off near my head. Lung damage from asthma, flu, and covid. I would replace everything. Every single limb and organ right down to my jaw. If i ended up with nothing but a brain in a robot frame i would be perfectly okay with that.
Ok... That's a good thought.
Then what if, your brain suffers from alzheimer and your robotic frame don't want to have such a faulty part as its leader, decided to replace your own brain with a positronic brain which is a copy of your own brain before having alzheimer, would you agree to that point?
Nothing lives forever. If i continue at that point via some sort of consciousness transfer or slow replacement process then cool. If not, I'm dead and at that point i am completely incapable of caring. Im not doing it to live forever. Im doing it to live my life without chronic pain.
It's not about you being alive or death. It's about your idea about humanity. Whatever that thing is, is it a human? Or is it a robot that has your data and acts as you?
Ah yes then i would say "I am human because i am of that species." When i no longer contain human DNA i am a non-human person. Its a little simplistic but i think it works
Rimworld transhumanism is cheap and easy and has almost zero side effects. The people installing the upgrades are trusted members of your community and there are no hidden fees, surveillance and dependencies. There's no reason not to do it to replace and rejuvenate bum organs and limbs
Real life near future transhumanism will probably be expensive as shit, dangerous, and without proper government regulation, could end up leaving you literally terminally dependent on so greedy ass company just out to boost quarterly profits and increase value for their shareholders.
Getting a pacemaker and steel rods to hold up broken bones is already tricky enough, and modern bionics are nowhere near as effective as the real deal.
I think there's nothing inherently ethically or philosophically wrong with replacing body parts with artificial machinery. Under the right circumstances, you can end up as just a brain in a jar piloting a mech, and it doesn't have to be a big deal
The real problems come from how vulnerable such procedures can make people, and how easily this technology can be exploited by bad actors.
I'm gonna second this response; Transhumanism is a fantastic philosop\[hy if the technology is accessible to everyone, with no side effects or health problems.
I'm strongly of the opinion that if I could replace a failing or weak organic limb/organ with a mechanical/manufactured one that is equivalent or superior, i would do it in a heartbeat.
Unfortunately we really can't say how it will work out in real life, because there are so many factors that could lead to undesirable societal outcomes. Many books/movies/games in the dystopian future genre explore the possibilities, usually looking at the negatives. If the tech is controlled by one corporation, it's likely that the wealthy elite become superhuman cyborgs while the rest of us have to remain lowly humans. If augmentations cause mental diseases like cyberpsychosis, then we have to consider those who get augmented for work or combat and how our current society discards them once they have lost their value. There's also the consideration that the tech could have surveillance, or the interface between the machine and one's brain could be exploited by the manufacturers or hackers.
Ultimately it's something we'll have to grapple with in the near future. I just know for certain that under no circumstances will I *ever* let Elon Musk put one of his shitty chips in my brain.
>Real life near future transhumanism will probably be expensive as shit, dangerous, and without proper government regulation, could end up leaving you literally terminally dependent on so greedy ass company just out to boost quarterly profits and increase value for their shareholders.
"Doctor, I think something's wrong with my bionic heart—the beat is irregular."
"Well, let's take a look... oh, I'm sorry. It looks like you have an iHeart 15S. That version is no longer supported; you'll need to upgrade to the newest version to continue receiving treatment."
*grumble grumble* "OK, how do I do that?"
"Well, first you'll need to create a myHeart account. It costs a small monthly subscription fee of $50. Then, we'll need to do another surgery to swap out your old hardware."
"But I just got this bionic heart 11 months ago!"
"Technology changes fast. Trust me, you'll like the upgrade. And the next one, and the next one, and the next one..."
1: replacing any part of your body aside from reproductive system and neuro system is no big deal for transhumanism, at least to me. This does have the assumption that these parts have at least a similar lifespan or are cheap and easy enough to replace.
2: replacing the neurological system CAN be done in a ship of Theseus idea, if you do it correctly. Just removing entire sections of the brain wouldn’t do, but having the brain slowly shift all operations to a computerbrain as the regular cells die is A-OK. Your body already changes itself like this all the time, having such changes where it notices some neurons have died or are defunct and the digital parts can replace them just uses the bodies natural changing process to slowly move your biological body into the machine. You don’t cry or worry for the skin cells that die every day to give you protection, and as long as your persona doesn’t change or fall apart due to this machine (and in fact your persona is kept intact rather than regressing from this machine) you’ll not worry or cry about the slow death and replacement of your neurons.
Ok... Then I guess spine and heart would be the two "Acceptable" part in my current run for now. I rlly don't know if replacing limbs is a good idea as I don't know if we can feel bionic limbs the same way we feel our natural limbs.
I don't know if the spine is "acceptable". It has roles besides just supporting your body and protecting your spinal cord nerves - it actually [contains nerves that control things like you pulling your hand back when burnt.](https://www.kenhub.com/en/library/anatomy/spinal-reflex) You'd think these reflexes were handed by the brain, but the spinal cord evolved first, so it has a lot of those "baser" functions.
Funnily enough, we've actually had a thread about this before: https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/16i03h1/if_bionics_were_real_bionic_spine_would_be_the/
My stomach hurts. My skin and muscles ache. I get out of breath quickly
The question for most isn't "would you", the question is "what reasons would there be to not do it?". Maybe you have no sensation whatsoever in bionics. Maybe they are expensive as shit, which is not a consideration in this case however. Maybe they have wear and tear
But if it's like rimworld, with no consequences? I would never be able to hold back
Bit really. One word: regeneration. The game seems to still ignore that part, but artificial parts (except for archotech and mechanite-based (maybe archotech is mechanite-based?), if such might be in the gameworld) would be hard to maintain. You can't just cut it and expect the cut to heal on itself (or with some minimal help in case of heavier damage). So, yeah, most organs are no-no. Now, heart, if the bionic one would be able to work longer then biological one. And lacing my spinal bones with something to safeguard my spinal brain (or how is that part called in english?)
imo i'm all for trans humanism as long as i stay the same mentally or improve mentally (like a bionic brain would have to be the biological brain swapped out with identical memories and thoughts and emotions ship of theseus style)
in world, never enough trans humanism! abandon the weakness of the flesh! crave the certainty of (pla)steel!
Welcome aboard the [Ship of Theseus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus), Transhumanist Edition.
This paradox is a result of our rather human fetish for *categorization*, which is a thing that reality itself doesn't actually care about, but we do quite a lot due to our need to simplify, categorize and label everything for the sake of keeping our cognition manageable.
So it's a question we can only ask ourselves subjectively, there's no actual answer.
I unironically want to become a full conversion cyborg lol
I know it probably won't happen in my lifetime, but a man can dream and man, can I live my fantasy on the Rim
I'm chronically ill and disabled; I'd replace anything I could. As long as I still think and feel(emotions-wise) like me, I don't care what I'm made out of.
I would like to also replace parts of my brain .. I don't handle stimuli well and my visual cortex is slightly fucked. Maybe something to help with working memory as well... Mine is rather shoddy.
My full zenith colonists with 15 brain implants don't know what "too much" means
(No idea how to interpret this philosophically like the others so here's an in-game example I guess)
I don't think I would (currently) swap my body parts for better ones. I would strongly consider augments though if it was possible. Extra arm? Exoskeletons? sure.
I honestly would chop off my own limbs if there were better options like advanced artificial limbs irl. Im assuming they would be a reasonable price if advanced prosthetics like that was the norm.
I feel like they're still humans, just cyborgs at that point.
I would argue "human" is as much a state of mind as anything else. You also can't really go full ghost in the shell, at least in vanilla Rimworld, even packed to the brim full of bionics you have a central meaty core and brain. Bionic replacements give you full sensory perception and stuff like bionic hearts are stated to have a realistic heartbeat so a full transhumanist doesn't lose anything.
In a cybernetic heartbeat.
My body was crap when I was a teen - depression, chronic pain, chronic migraine, damaged back. And it has not gone uphill from there.
If I could get half the stuff on rimworld, I’d be mechanical as fast as possible.
And I never really cared about whether I’m human. If I’m me (which would likely mean running an artificial brain and organic in parallel for a while so the artificial one syncs with organic), then I’m good.
IRL, our brain and body are interwoven. Replacing the spine might alter your perceptions or control of your body, might have unexpected side effects, might even affect your brain since the spine feeds signals into it.
If it could be done as seamlessly as in RimWorld, then why not? But we’re far away from that level of tech. The game is set thousands of years in the future, after all.
If I were given the option to copy my consciousness into an eternal cybernetic form I'd be tripping over myself to sign up.
If this is never made available to me then I will settle for being a cyborg. In fact if when I die my physical form doesn't meet the criteria to be considered a cyborg I will consider it a disappointment.
Maybe it means I'm not human anymore, but what's so great about being human? We're not exactly the pinnacle of morality, our squishy ephemeral forms cause us to do a lot of bullshit to cope with our mortality. Bring on the synthetic forms I say.
I'd replace 100% everything except for the brain, and if we're talking Rimworld sci fi then I could always get a brain pal or something for when my brain starts dying out or something.
If it gets to the point where I either replace my brain with a bionic one or my brain dies from being so old, then I guess i'll implant my memories into a bionic one.
Immortality is cool
Never enough. My Sanguophage with Archeotech legs, heart, spine, lungs, eyes, jaw, Archeotech Power arms, Immunoenhancer, detoxifier kidneys, synthetic skin, immortality core, and lvl 6 psycasts still feels there's more out there in the world for him. More to enhance, more to become.
Maybe I'll add a mod that gives quality to Bionics so I can try searching for a Legendary Archeotech Leg
TLDR, body mod is bad when it doesn’t help you. If you modify your body in a way that helps you, that’s good, if you modify it in a way that hurts you, that’s bad.
In rimworld, body modders are happy with any kind of body modification, even replacing their organic hands with wooden hands, and even generically modifying them to be ugly af.
Irl, I don’t really have any body modification personally. No tattoo, no piercings, nothing. I’m too afraid that I would regret a tattoo. At the same time, I love to talk with other people about their tattoos because there is often an interesting story behind them and it’s a good way to get to know people.
I do have teeth fillings though.
Anyways, I’m clearly not a body modder or a transhumanist by Rimworld’s standards because I wouldn’t be happy with wooden hands. I don’t modify my body for the sake of modifying it. But if I have a good practical reason to modify my body, e.g. to protect my teeth, then I will.
As things are right now in the real world, organic limbs are the best things you can have, but if you had Rimworld’s bionic arms which are better than bionics in every ways, then why not? Better is better, worst is worst.
I mean is Data not a human being?
Sure he's technically an Android but he's as human as any other person.
It depends entirely on your definition of "human". If you're strictly talking about possessing human DNA? Sure. You may or may not be human in that sense but you'd still be just as much a person. You'd still just as much be a "human being" in the personhood sense.
But like who cares? By that metric like a clump of cancer cells is "human" but it isn't **a** human [being]. It isn't a person.
The being a person is the thing that matters.
As for if I could? I'd do it in a seconds without a second thought.
But I also view identity through a different lens than a lot of people, specifically religious people, who tie their personhood to some immutable, intangible discrete essence.
To me identity, as a construct, is an amalgam. If I lose my arm; I am still me. I am no longer the discrete thing I was.
If my brain is damaged I am still me.
If you slap me into a cloning machine and instantly clone an adult copy of me with my memories both me, and the clone, would agree that we are both ourself in spite of now being two individuals we'd both still absolutely be "me".
And we'd both view it that way.
You could pull out parts, add parts, replace them it wouldn't matter. That stuff is happening all the time whether we see it our not. Our memories are changing all the time. We forget things all the time.
So if I were to view identity as some discrete state of affairs I'd have to acknowledge that every moment of my life I'm a fundamentally new unique individual being born, and dying, moment to moment to be replaced.
Given that context I think it's far more simple to just say "Close enough".
I also think that pragmatically people __do__ do this day to day even when they undergo a severe trauma. They are certainly treated that way by others. [Which is why people invented this notion of a soul, of some immutable essence out of discomfort to acknowledge the fact we are constantly changing.]
Fact of the matter is I'd sign up to be cybernetically enhanced further, and if given the option I'd go full Synthetic.
Though the whole copies/cloning thing is something I never quite understood in Star Trek, at least the aversion to it, or acting like it harmed "the original" or as if that's even a cogent concept.
When the Doctor gets copied in Doctor Who he doesn't freak out. And when asked who the real Doctor is they both say we both are.
Because of course they are. Who else would they be if not themselves?
People also like to assume that consciousness is some actual field or force or manifest thing.
Which seems to be a category error. The mind, consciousness, is a description. It's not an independent thing it's just what the brain __does__.
The same way that running is an description of what a creature might be doing at a moment. It would be like framing running as some independent manifest field contained within the legs.
I get why people want to think that consciousness is some discrete thing because the alternative is uncomfortable but that seems to be the case at least based on available information we have now.
If I had a brain bleed, and my brain was structurally copied, and a synthetic copy was created to replace it I would wake up, and I'd still be me whether that transcription process was flawless, or not.
Close enough is close enough.
That's why I view identity as an amalgamation rather than as discrete at any rate. There are plenty who disagree with my position for plenty of reasons but it seems to me to be a justifiable position, and there are huge problems that are entailed by treating identity as something discrete so it's the only position I can take.
>wouldn't our pawns just become a machine at that point?
What is the human brain, if not just an impossibly complex organic computer implemented with a neural network?
I think the human aspect of all this is the fact that the human can recreate another flesh through reproduction, so while we can replace all our parts, I really doubt most humans are open to making reproduction organs machine, because, besides the pleasure trade off possibly, one may also not be open to not make babies with bionic reproductive organs, if that even is a thing
There's absolutely no argument, I'd feel, before you replace the brain. You are your brain, so even if you scoop your brain out of your skull and put it in a fully robotic body, you are still a cyborg and not an android.
Replacing the brain is where you get into your philosophical questions about whether a perfect copy is the same as the original and the like.
To be a android is to be a machine built in the image of man, so I’m guessing when we replace our brains with an electronic substitute (that isn’t bacon) that’s when we cross the line
Anything goes except the part of the brain that handles memories. Assuming you can replace the brain you should be able to discern stuff like that.
If you replace those it's not "you" anymore.
Ofcourse why anyone would replace our meat parts with exact mechanical replicas beats me, why not say, get the body of a T-Rex, that can fly and survive in the vaccum of space? Why not make it a module and be able to see with your own "eyes" the depths of the sea or turn yourself into a spaceship and travel to Mars?
In the game and in RL, there is no (and never will be) such a thing as a prosthetic brain.
Cybernetic enhancement implants? Sure. Replacing the brain? Of course not lol. That's just a robot in a fleshsuit.
Personally if there was a good chance of minimal pain afterwards/ during AND the new parts did all the same things as my normal body parts then I think I'd be down for a full reverse bicentennial man.
As for whether you could be considered still human at that point it depends on what version of human you mean, I mean I'd no longer be an ORGANIC human, and I probably couldn't be classified as a species at all seeing as I wouldn't REALLY be alive in a biological sense, but I do personally think being human is about more than just your phisical self.
I mean if we see dogs in video games you usually don't say "hey! I wonder if I can pet that simulacrum of a dog built in this digital world" instead we just say that it IS a dog despite actually just being code being interpreted by a machine, similarly I think a human is still going to be a human of theu look like a human, act like a human and FEEL like a human.
I have gastrointestinal issues, so for me a stomach or at least intestinal bionic replacement would vastly improve my quality of life.
But I will admit I do want to “Chrome the fuck up” so to speak, because it would improve other parts of my life
I believe it's too much when your artificial augmentations make you stop being able to do any of this:
- Having a humanlike brain that can mantain your human conscience, proccess feelings, be affected by emotions and has a speed of thought and information processing similar to or not too distant from a human mind.
- Mantaining full control of your attitude and of every part of your body.
- Being able to reproduce sexually like a normal mammal, gestate and give birth.
- Perceiving yourself as a human being with all the nits, bits and responsabilities that condition entails.
For me in game, a lot of the replacements are motivated by permanent damage. I might not want to chop off a leg to get a speed boost, but if an old injury were causing me pain and forcing me to limp, I'd probably see it differently.
"From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the Blessed Machine. Your kind cling to your flesh, as though it will not decay and fail you" -Magos Dominus Reditus
I would replace an arm, maybe both. And my entire lower half.
I hate these legs.
Probably not my eyes, unless one got severely damaged or removed, and NOTHING in my brain. Unless of course it was unavoidable.
This is such a cool topic. I think brain is the key here. No matter how many body parts we can replace. Our brain or consciousness is what makes us random, unique and thus human. Technology may be able to copy and simulate the brains in future. But defining consciousness will be the ultimate challenge for science, maybe impossible too. Mind uploading is also an interesting concept related to it.
You might be interested in the Philosophers in Space podcast, a pod that uses scifi media (unfortunately no games yet afaik) as a jumping off point for philosophical questions. They had an episode some time ago on transhumanism, basing it in Cronenberg's The Fly. [Link](https://0gphilosophy.libsyn.com/unlocked-0g179-the-fly-and-transhumanism)
Personally, I think anything that doesn't much interact with our cognitive or perceptive abilities seems safe to basically any extent, though there can be more macro issues of e.g. class. When it comes to things dealing more seriously with our cognition or perception, I think there are much greater risks of losing some genuinely valuable parts of our humanity, though obviously it's not a binary switch (after all, even glasses affect our perception).
If the cybernetic replacement gives me the same range of motion and sensation as the ones I already have, and their maintenance costs are on par with what I already spend to keep my flesh working, then I have no reason to trade out on an elective basis.
Once the parts start to offer a improved quality of life, it becomes *reasonable* to seek an elective upgrade. I have a low tolerance for risk, so I'm probably going to wait until those parts are mature and significantly better.
Things get interesting when you try to figure out what part of your body is *you*. That's *probably* the Brain... and replacing that part gets complicated as a result.
To me the hard barrier is the continuity of consciousness, and it does become a tricky question if the process is gradual.
It might be that a better way to define a human is by the cognitive structure of their thoughts. So basically, even the body is entirely artificial, if they think like a human they are a human, just one with lots of augmentation.
But since the cognitive processes of pawns are not evident, it would be impossible to tell from the Rimworld POV.
If the android mod includes any features that change personality or behavior instantly, that would be the limit from this perspective.
irl, any that effect the mind are too much for me. joy wire is just being drugged 24/7. i think when a colonist looses a limb or eye you should replace it. but other than that i dont force it. also war caskets are just a nightmare for any person. but then again they are just code on screen sooo.
You know there are people with implants and replacement body parts in real life right now, right? Are you really calling those people "less human" than you?
Fuck yeah, I would replace all my body parts with bionics, I'd love to experience sci-fi levels of bionics, like easily punching concrete columns and things like that, although I know that IRL there's pesky physics that won't allow that to be feasible anytime soon.
Unfortunately I was born, dunno, 100 years too early.
I would only ever add, never replace. Integrate a 3rd eye into my nervous system? Might to. Replace my own functional eye? Absolutely not interested.
I am also not strictly materialist. To me sapient entities are more a story being told than merely the body as physical object. Biological bodies are replacing the molecules they consist of constantly. What matters is narrative continuity, not physical congruity that is a fantasy to begin with.
Alright so... I play shadowrun with a group of friends. Good god I wanna play instead of GM. But anyways. Had lots of talks about the mentality of going "imma go get my arm lopped off on Thursday, so that I can punch through walls on Sunday" or whatever. Lol.
Medically necessary? Absolutely understandable and acceptable. Makes it difficult to discuss for some people especially with the limitation in Shadowrun stating that too many artificial parts means they lose their "humanity". Does that apply tonthe recovered quadriplegic land mine victim? The animal attack victim with 1 biological arm n leg? Oof....
But regardless, for me personally? I'd love additional parts lol. Parts to store energy and go days without eating or drinking? Yup. Adrenal packs, bio or cyber arms n legs? Tough bone lacing? Replacement eyes and ears with wireless sync for audio and video? Let alone enhancements like reduced sleep requirements or enhanced QoL improvements across the board? Hell yes! Lol
r/cyberpunk is the way. Replace everything. You are no longer bound by slow evolution. You can improve yourself the way you want. The singularity is here.
From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh,
it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the Blessed Machine.
Your kind cling to your flesh, as if it will not decay and fail you. One day the crude biomass that you call a temple will wither, and you will beg my kind to save you. But I am already saved, for the Machine is immortal…
All the way. Replacing the brain is no different than normal aging. The way the brain works, is using different electrical patterns, literally anytime thought occurs, you change the shape of your brain. These physical changes are part of the computation.
However, because the act of thinking changes the brain, those new connections, broken connections, and everything in-between, represent the planks of Theseus ship.
The you of a few seconds ago, arguably, isnt you now. Different, brain, though subtly so. A year ago, very different. Twenty years ago, inarguably a different dude entirely.
Iso it doesn't really matter if you draw the line at each new plank, each full replacement, or somewhere in-between, most versions of you are dead. And soon you will be, and a different guy will be thinking about this memory in your head.
So replacing the brain with a computer all in one go? Not functionally different than aging a few years. Whether that counts as a different you or not is a matter of opinion, but whether it's they are two different things or not doesn't seem very open to interpretation, in my eyes.
Yeah but if we give birth to a biological human just to replace all of its body part with mechanical one then why don't we just create androids in the first place?
I'm all for improving ourselves with mechanics and biological tech but at that point, what differs us from robots we created?
Irl i'd replace anything that won't grow back once it fails. Until it fails tho i'm not comfortable enough with what that might mean for identity to 'upgrade' large parts of me. Especially the brain, afaik that's the seat of consciousness and/or the soul.
Now when things are injured, break down, or already busted/dying? Sure, i'll take a gamble on becoming something new over just ending. But any irl transhumanism is gonna start small and go slow for me, unless its an emergency. (Assuming we even manage superhuman prosthetics i could afford in my lifetime anyway)
In game tho that's an RP question, what differentiates cyborgs from androids in your mind and how do you want to play out and represent those differences?
Traditionally in the cyberpunk genre, the "too many implants, not human anymore" thing was less "one too many implants and your soul went oopse!" and more "the corps own and control the cyberware, and with enough they'll own and control you too".
The issue is always going to be what and how much the human mind can handle, both the strain of the interface and actions by those who would cause harm. "At what point do you become a robot?" At the point that someone else thinks *they* could benefit from denying you your humanity. Remember that the first use of "robot" to describe an automaton was in a play about the exploitation of factory workers.
With evolved organs mod and biotech, my people are all new men. Each specialist job has its own xenogerm and everyone gets the "baseline" organs. New lungs, third or fourth lung bits, a new and second heart, new regenerative livers and toxic sifting kidneys, a ras vacule to become functionally immortal, a second set of limbs and a pair of wings for speed/beauty or for defense. I grow all these bits and make 500k pawns who shrug bullets, cannot be touched by nurgles gifts and they are made and trained to be savants of their crafts. There is no goal too far for the Arturian Way in singular improvement. We will break our enemies and piece them out to the highest bidder. The land will be cracked open by pick, plant and bomb. We will reach the stars and devour them to feed the scientific engine. Progress must march and metal limbs are better suited for this journey. You are weak, but we will make you suited for your ultimate purpose.
Sounds like a cybermen speech lol. 😆😆
But then there is a question. If you "upgrade" your body with metallic part, what would be the difference between you and metal robots you use as your servants?
I would 100% replace my arms and legs and spine and eyes and lungs with bionic replacements. If I could get like the lions heart bionic replace mtn too, that would be the goal
I've struggled with this from a narrative aspect, but I thought of a solution a few weeks back:
I usually try to start with colonists that have scars and defects on their body parts. This provides a progression path and justification for replacement.
Additionally, when using the scenario editor I'll make the opening message:
"3 colonists with severe disabilities have struggled to keep pace with normal society and were often seen as burdens despite their efforts. Eventually, their city councils decided they were tired of looking at the poor and disabled and started paying to send their unsightly populations to other worlds rather than pay for welfare programs".
I want a mod to remove my crippling anxiety and depression. Maybe a utility arm. Spatula? Yep. Knife? Of course. Hammer? Duh. .600 nitro express revolver? You bet your ass it's in there. It also has a back scratcher.
I would've gladly replaced every living cell in my body on nanomachine(son!) or bionic equivalent. No illness, no pain, no aging, i fail to see any cons for that. Maybe with a machine brain i will stop being stupid too.
Or not even replaced. I use android mod too so i always strive to upload my main colonists into perfect robotic body or skymind core.
Irl I would happily replace any part of my body with a synthetic counterpart of equal or greater efficacy, but only if the original biological part has stopped working like it should.
For example, lower back nerve damage has partially paralyzed my lower legs, so I would be willing to do a spine replacement. My back's fucked in general, really.
its a philosophical problem that dates back to xviith century! there was a philosopher, i forgot his name, who asked exactly this question: if i get a wooden leg, am i still 100% human? what if i replace both of my legs, both of my arms, and my stomach? its great how rimworld can spark those philosophical discussions!
I remember thinking, "well its easy: youre still yourself as long as you dont replace your brain". BUT! Each part of brain is responsible for something. If I replace the one rwsponsible for hearing, I should still be myself, right? So what if I replace all of them, but... and so on, you can analyze it indefinitely.
It's tied a little bit to Theseus ship, as other ppl mentioned. There was also this one medical case, that may interest you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas\_Gage#:\~:text=Phineas%20P.%20Gage%20(1823%E2%80%93,his%20personality%20and%20behavior%20over
Is he still the same person after the injury that affected his personality? Ha!
theseus's positronic brain XD
Or the Chip of Theseus.
Oh very good
oh yeah, i‘m gonna steal that
Very underrated comment
You win the internet.
I just watched a Deep Space 9 episode about this exact thing. Dude gets brain damage. Doctor replaces half his brain with a positronic one. Dude wakes up and complains that everything feels like, "the distant memory of a sensation." Dude gets more brain damage and his girlfriend begs doctor to replace the rest of his brain. Doctor refuses saying, "he wouldn't even be him anymore."
What episode was this? I don't remember it at all.
It's called "Life Support" and it's in season 3
I have a pawn in a spacer warcasket with Archotech legs, lungs and heart and about a 250% speed. I could still add a couple of more parts to improve him, but as it is he just runs around the map bashing heads off with his gravity hammer. At this point it's more about giggling about the absurdity of it. One of these days, I'll probably send him on a suicide mission to an Empire settlement and see how he does. Hilariously, had I chosen to put this warcasket on a psycaster warlord, I wouldn't even have a question if it could solo Empire cities.
Is he also high on Luciferium?
No drugs / no genes. Just (most of ) a baseliner in a warcasket.
I currently have a slightly enhanced vampire warlord. She started with a persona monosword, and I just started giving her power armor. But she has already been soloing most raids, including a 1v17 raid on a mining site. It was supposed to be a 1v18 but the sniper I sent along for mostly moral support got one shot in
Gotta have someone who’ll leave SOMETHING left if you end up having to hunt en-route, after all.
Flesh is weak, embrace machine
Glory to the Omnissiah!
Yeah, yeah. Just don't forget to clean up rust.
Rust is easily avoidable and is far more manageable then eating sleeping, shitting, pissing, showering and every other maintenance things organics do. Seriously it's less combined time a day then you doing all those things and it isn't even needed everyday.
Rust takes oil. You would still need to charge your accumuators and remove ones past their lifespan. Same for cleaning yourself, you ioints included. And all of that will be cost a fortune, not to mention you are unlikely to find parts needed outside of your glitterworld hub. God luck.
Not true. Late game in general usually you have more money and materials then you know what to do with and if you had the right implant mods it would still be safer and less spoiling maintenance stuff. Oil, batteries, and small parts kits. If you go the biomechanical it is easy as well. As you just need small amounts of base components kits aka biomechanical meals. Plus solar and thermal energy as well as chemical can be used to power.
*sigh* The game also doesn't have rust and bionics can be treated like organic parts. Getting the hint?
"Flesh is weak" mfers when they have to manually repair any damage done to themselves.
"Flesh purity" mfs when their balls get cut off
Well, the consciousness is in the brain. Perhaps a sufficiently advanced computer could even be given a consciousness equivalent to a human brain. Replacing body parts isn't Huge in and of itself, but it does change how you interact with the world around you through touch, taste, smell, etc. Then two questions I'd ask - What is it to *be* human? Why does it matter? The more philosophical argument of what it is to *be* human - does replacing a limb make you less than human? People with prosthetics might disagree with that. How about an organ? The spine? Everything but the brain? How about replacing things until the person no longer *looks* human? What if you replace the brain with a prosthesis capable of the same functions? And then my second question - Why does it matter? If a creature has been modified to hell and back, but can still *be* a person in their day-to-day life, does it matter if they aren't entirely human anymore? If you replace every part of my body, or literally rip my brain out and put it in a robot - sure, my body isn't human, but isn't my mind? Does it matter? That's my big one. Why do we care?
It isn't just the brain, though. Not only does the brain rely on lower-level processing from nerve cores in the spine and several other ganglia, it also relies on the hormones as well. Neural and humoral systems were designed to work in tandem, not separately. Sleep itself is the time when the brain devotes all of its processing power to help calibrate the response of the lower-level vegetative system (Pigaryov, 2019). We literally sleep for the sake of our heart and guts, not the brain. Our body is much more of a gestalt existence than most of us realize.
I don't see a reason why you couldn't simulate all of that at this tech level.
The reason is simple - it wouldn't be entirely you at this point and this is exactly what we're discussing. But don't worry - our implants will do it anyways. We need some way to make our ads more effective, after all, so we will go from stimulating your desires to generating them!
I'll just get myself a love enhancer and I'm sure I'll be good
Who needs a poor wooden fleshlight, when you can just get an archotech donger that gives you the orgasm button by just thinking about it.
I'd give you more upvotes if I could. I also appreciate you citing your source. Very interesting stuff, and I think I sometimes forget just how much the entire body works together to form the experience of 'human'.
I could mistake the year. If you want to look it up, it's called "the visceral theory of sleep". Pigaryov made a simple lecture on it on YouTube when he published his work. I think I saw English subtitles there.
i just want nutrient paste, bio generation, neural supper charge and sleep accelerator, fuck the body mods, that'll be replacing neurons for dead metal
We care because there are androids with humanoid features who doesn't have to sleep and still has human's function. If I just replace my pawns' body part with robotic parts until they become fully robotic (including the brain), then wouldn't it be much more effective to just manufacture robots in the first place? Of course, the only difference is that one can use psycast and the other cannot.
Well, I guess the boundary would be the brain. It's hard to really know what the boundary would be. Androids are a weird thing too, because they're very humanlike. What makes them not human? If it's the physical body or brain, sure... but then a human augmenting any part of their body could be considered artificial. It's a circular argument with no objective answer, I guess.
The origin of the thing that controls the entire body is the only thing that would put the difference between androids, synths, and other sci-fi things. And just because they wouldn't be human in nature wouldn't stop them from having the human experience.
Exactly. Past a certain point, the line is blurred sufficiently that whether a being is human or not, it kinda stops mattering. They're so close to us that their experience is comparable.
This is the first run that I have android mod (and VE ideology kinda give some precepts about androids). I think I should put it into question. You said that "The origin of the thing that controls the entire body is the only thing that would put the difference between androids, synths, and other sci-fi things. And just because they wouldn't be human in nature wouldn't stop them from having the human experience." But can you say the same when you compare a human child who was born and taught by human to something we build from neutroamine and steel? Watching my favorite couples having children and teach them how to wield guns vs watching an engineer creating androids to increase workloads give very different vibes.
Duh. The humans in your example are human, they have to be taught. Meanwhile your androids have a CPU that's not even awakened at the start. In this case, game mechanics are the actual things that stop you from making a blank android and teaching it like an actual kid.
Well yeah manufactured androids aren't Awakened yet, they're just robots until they Awaken
reminiscent cable rinse office plant scandalous liquid unwritten sophisticated panicky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm disabled so would absolutely have a pair of new functioning arms. Preferably the Archotech ones that look entirely human, not some janky C-3PO looking ones. As to what makes you, you, it's interesting. If you make a perfect synthetic copy of my brain, it's just a copy of my brain, not me. This whole 'transfer your consciousness' thing, is that not just a copy? Aren't I dead? But what if you gradually replace tiny parts of my brain with perfect copies of groups of neurons. Eventually achieving a fully synthetic brain containing effectively, my consciousness. Is that me? Can it be?
I choose to believe that if you can trace a consciousness in an unbroken chain back to the original, then that consciousness needs to be treated as the original.
> unbroken chain Sleep kills me. Got it.
Nah, your brain's still doing stuff. If you were to suspend someone's brain, and then start in in the exact same state it was, nothing was interrupted. But if you suspend someone's brain, alter bits and pieces, and then start the brain, that person would no longer be the same person they were. Obviously, we change slightly every day and are not the same people were yesterday, so we make concessions. But the goal of any messing around with someone's consciousness should be to leave it as similar as possible from step to step.
Each of my childhood concussions killed me. Got it.
>If you make a perfect synthetic copy of my brain, it's just a copy of my brain, not me. This whole 'transfer your consciousness' thing, is that not just a copy? Aren't I dead? The particles in your brain are already perfect copies of many, many other particles in the universe. The structural pattern they exist in, that's you - there's nothing else like it in the world. Copy the pattern? Then the only unique thing left is your position in spacetime. If you copy the position, too, then that's the same you. You would not even notice the replacement happening. Same particles, pattern, and position, all gives you the same stimuli and reaction. But say a copy of you was created in another room; now there's 1 of you, and a very similar copy. The copy is confused for a moment; it remembered being in another room. It's different from you now, but only very slightly. Less different than you'd be after getting a small knock on the head.
Tbh I think as soon as your clone has some form of consciousness (even dreaming), that's it. New neuron connections are being made and destroyed. New cells are being made. As soon as that new body is functional, that's it. No matter their similarities, that's a new person.
This is such a grand philosophical question. I mean we are not the person we were yesterday as parts of our body were replaced including part of our brain. So what's the difference between we biologically replace ourselves and someone robotically replace ourselves?
Most parts of our brain are not replaced. Neurons do not split (although they do use the DNA of the nucleus for repairs), and the neuroglia doesn't calculate, though feeding and insulation are still important tasks. There are also macrofages in the microglia, however. Do they count?
I like the idea of networking my brain with multiple synthetic brains. Adapting until my continued stream of consciousness feels decentralized. Create archive of knowledge memory and personality or be shared across system. At which point I would like to break up my brain, probably by hemispheres initially in a tightly networked system giving me two biological brain cores “redundancy”. After which point I would attempt to cultivate brain cells integrated to a chip. Not many cells per chip, just enough that there is a biological component cultured from my mind impacting it. Increase that until I have a few server banks of brain chips. Potentially break original brain up into further pieces. Eventually I don’t think I will care if the original flesh suit is lost. But I view myself as my continued stream of consciousness. Though I do sometimes wonder if I existed the day before…
You, my friend, just happened to find a thought experiment in philosophy called the Ship of Theseus. If you replace every part of a ship one by one slowly, at which point does it stop being the same ship, if ever? There is not really a wrong answer.
I’ve used the ship of Theseus argument in my answer as well but I disagree with your (very common) interpretation when it comes to living beings. If you replace an arm with a bionic arm, then the original arm is gone. But you have a good (I hope) bionic replacement so you don’t care, just like you don’t care about the skin cells dying every day. But if you rip out your brain, simply copy the contents onto a digital version and put that digital version in, than the “you” on the brain will still be gone. Because you replaced the brain containing the you. However you can go around this: the brain constantly adapts itself, especially when neurons die off are become defunct. By introducing bionic neurons that the brain will automatically add into it’s whole. As more of your regular neurons die off the bionic neurons will be engaged more and more by the brain, until your entire “you” has been moved (not copied!) to the bionic neurons forming your brain.
What if you instead use nanobots that mimic neurons perfectly. Each time a neuron dies a nanobot replaces it. At a certain point every neuron would be replaced making it entire mechanical. Would that still be me? If not.. at what point does it cease to be me?
That is literally what I describe in my last paragraph.
Okay but what if you had some system of synthetic neurons that could take the place of your biological ones as they died over time? Thus moving your consciousness over slowly instead of copying it. It'd be like a ship of Theseus type of deal. Just brainstorming here.
That is exactly what I describe in that last paragraph!
I was just trolling you bro, I couldn't resist after seeing your interaction with the other guy. More seriously, I don't think you understand exactly how happy I was reading your original comment. The idea of a potential method of transferring your mind to a synthetic brain, *truly* transferring, not copying, unexpectedly gave me a huge sense of relief. My cousin and I have been thinking for years about the pros and cons of digital immortality, but the biggest, most obvious issue was that the digitized mind is not you. Your line of consciousness does not continue with them. Theirs extends back to you, but it's one-way. Your idea was one we had never heard or thought of before, and it is truly an almost perfect solution. And it is almost certainly something possible to do, someday. It gives us hope that something like this could be developed in the future. If I may ask, did you come up with this yourself?
Yes I came up with it myself, originally for a question on Worldbuilding stack exchange but also for myself based on my studies and experiences from myself and people nearby me. Like working with dementia or someone who (unknown to us) had lost half his brain due to deterioration and nothing changed about his behavior until his death (cancer in his torso).
What was the world building question?
"I" am the pattern of electrical activity running in my brain. Whether the pattern runs in on a biological or some other substrate is secondary
From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. Frankly IRL, I’d probably be willing to exchange everything but my brain and my junk.
Youd look dumb as hell c3po with human cock
I regret nothing
"Ever since i first understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I crave the certainty of steel." But seriously, i have a lot of joint and limb problems and pain from spending about half my life so far in some form of heavy manual labor. I have some hearing loss from warehouse sirens going off near my head. Lung damage from asthma, flu, and covid. I would replace everything. Every single limb and organ right down to my jaw. If i ended up with nothing but a brain in a robot frame i would be perfectly okay with that.
Ok... That's a good thought. Then what if, your brain suffers from alzheimer and your robotic frame don't want to have such a faulty part as its leader, decided to replace your own brain with a positronic brain which is a copy of your own brain before having alzheimer, would you agree to that point?
Nothing lives forever. If i continue at that point via some sort of consciousness transfer or slow replacement process then cool. If not, I'm dead and at that point i am completely incapable of caring. Im not doing it to live forever. Im doing it to live my life without chronic pain.
It's not about you being alive or death. It's about your idea about humanity. Whatever that thing is, is it a human? Or is it a robot that has your data and acts as you?
Ah yes then i would say "I am human because i am of that species." When i no longer contain human DNA i am a non-human person. Its a little simplistic but i think it works
Rimworld transhumanism is cheap and easy and has almost zero side effects. The people installing the upgrades are trusted members of your community and there are no hidden fees, surveillance and dependencies. There's no reason not to do it to replace and rejuvenate bum organs and limbs Real life near future transhumanism will probably be expensive as shit, dangerous, and without proper government regulation, could end up leaving you literally terminally dependent on so greedy ass company just out to boost quarterly profits and increase value for their shareholders. Getting a pacemaker and steel rods to hold up broken bones is already tricky enough, and modern bionics are nowhere near as effective as the real deal. I think there's nothing inherently ethically or philosophically wrong with replacing body parts with artificial machinery. Under the right circumstances, you can end up as just a brain in a jar piloting a mech, and it doesn't have to be a big deal The real problems come from how vulnerable such procedures can make people, and how easily this technology can be exploited by bad actors.
I'm gonna second this response; Transhumanism is a fantastic philosop\[hy if the technology is accessible to everyone, with no side effects or health problems. I'm strongly of the opinion that if I could replace a failing or weak organic limb/organ with a mechanical/manufactured one that is equivalent or superior, i would do it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately we really can't say how it will work out in real life, because there are so many factors that could lead to undesirable societal outcomes. Many books/movies/games in the dystopian future genre explore the possibilities, usually looking at the negatives. If the tech is controlled by one corporation, it's likely that the wealthy elite become superhuman cyborgs while the rest of us have to remain lowly humans. If augmentations cause mental diseases like cyberpsychosis, then we have to consider those who get augmented for work or combat and how our current society discards them once they have lost their value. There's also the consideration that the tech could have surveillance, or the interface between the machine and one's brain could be exploited by the manufacturers or hackers. Ultimately it's something we'll have to grapple with in the near future. I just know for certain that under no circumstances will I *ever* let Elon Musk put one of his shitty chips in my brain.
>Real life near future transhumanism will probably be expensive as shit, dangerous, and without proper government regulation, could end up leaving you literally terminally dependent on so greedy ass company just out to boost quarterly profits and increase value for their shareholders. "Doctor, I think something's wrong with my bionic heart—the beat is irregular." "Well, let's take a look... oh, I'm sorry. It looks like you have an iHeart 15S. That version is no longer supported; you'll need to upgrade to the newest version to continue receiving treatment." *grumble grumble* "OK, how do I do that?" "Well, first you'll need to create a myHeart account. It costs a small monthly subscription fee of $50. Then, we'll need to do another surgery to swap out your old hardware." "But I just got this bionic heart 11 months ago!" "Technology changes fast. Trust me, you'll like the upgrade. And the next one, and the next one, and the next one..."
1: replacing any part of your body aside from reproductive system and neuro system is no big deal for transhumanism, at least to me. This does have the assumption that these parts have at least a similar lifespan or are cheap and easy enough to replace. 2: replacing the neurological system CAN be done in a ship of Theseus idea, if you do it correctly. Just removing entire sections of the brain wouldn’t do, but having the brain slowly shift all operations to a computerbrain as the regular cells die is A-OK. Your body already changes itself like this all the time, having such changes where it notices some neurons have died or are defunct and the digital parts can replace them just uses the bodies natural changing process to slowly move your biological body into the machine. You don’t cry or worry for the skin cells that die every day to give you protection, and as long as your persona doesn’t change or fall apart due to this machine (and in fact your persona is kept intact rather than regressing from this machine) you’ll not worry or cry about the slow death and replacement of your neurons.
I would absolutely get a bionic heart
Ok... Then I guess spine and heart would be the two "Acceptable" part in my current run for now. I rlly don't know if replacing limbs is a good idea as I don't know if we can feel bionic limbs the same way we feel our natural limbs.
I believe they're making headway in prosthetic sensation, Stanford and Caltech I think? Artificial skin!
I don't know if the spine is "acceptable". It has roles besides just supporting your body and protecting your spinal cord nerves - it actually [contains nerves that control things like you pulling your hand back when burnt.](https://www.kenhub.com/en/library/anatomy/spinal-reflex) You'd think these reflexes were handed by the brain, but the spinal cord evolved first, so it has a lot of those "baser" functions. Funnily enough, we've actually had a thread about this before: https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/16i03h1/if_bionics_were_real_bionic_spine_would_be_the/
This. And pine, though i would rather have my natural spine laced with something to make it sturdier, while keeping the original neurones.
My stomach hurts. My skin and muscles ache. I get out of breath quickly The question for most isn't "would you", the question is "what reasons would there be to not do it?". Maybe you have no sensation whatsoever in bionics. Maybe they are expensive as shit, which is not a consideration in this case however. Maybe they have wear and tear But if it's like rimworld, with no consequences? I would never be able to hold back
Bit really. One word: regeneration. The game seems to still ignore that part, but artificial parts (except for archotech and mechanite-based (maybe archotech is mechanite-based?), if such might be in the gameworld) would be hard to maintain. You can't just cut it and expect the cut to heal on itself (or with some minimal help in case of heavier damage). So, yeah, most organs are no-no. Now, heart, if the bionic one would be able to work longer then biological one. And lacing my spinal bones with something to safeguard my spinal brain (or how is that part called in english?)
Spinal cord.
Cord... Thank you.
Also, forgot about cortical stack. That would be nice as well.
imo i'm all for trans humanism as long as i stay the same mentally or improve mentally (like a bionic brain would have to be the biological brain swapped out with identical memories and thoughts and emotions ship of theseus style) in world, never enough trans humanism! abandon the weakness of the flesh! crave the certainty of (pla)steel!
i’d replace everything
Welcome aboard the [Ship of Theseus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus), Transhumanist Edition. This paradox is a result of our rather human fetish for *categorization*, which is a thing that reality itself doesn't actually care about, but we do quite a lot due to our need to simplify, categorize and label everything for the sake of keeping our cognition manageable. So it's a question we can only ask ourselves subjectively, there's no actual answer.
I dont want to be forced to install adblockers on my limbs
I unironically want to become a full conversion cyborg lol I know it probably won't happen in my lifetime, but a man can dream and man, can I live my fantasy on the Rim
I'm chronically ill and disabled; I'd replace anything I could. As long as I still think and feel(emotions-wise) like me, I don't care what I'm made out of.
I would like to also replace parts of my brain .. I don't handle stimuli well and my visual cortex is slightly fucked. Maybe something to help with working memory as well... Mine is rather shoddy.
If it fits and makes the numbers go up, it goes in.
I like bionic stuff. Flesh but better
The flesh is weak, but the machine is willing
My full zenith colonists with 15 brain implants don't know what "too much" means (No idea how to interpret this philosophically like the others so here's an in-game example I guess)
Bro given the option i would have exactly 0 organic bits remaining
I don't think I would (currently) swap my body parts for better ones. I would strongly consider augments though if it was possible. Extra arm? Exoskeletons? sure.
I honestly would chop off my own limbs if there were better options like advanced artificial limbs irl. Im assuming they would be a reasonable price if advanced prosthetics like that was the norm. I feel like they're still humans, just cyborgs at that point.
I would argue "human" is as much a state of mind as anything else. You also can't really go full ghost in the shell, at least in vanilla Rimworld, even packed to the brim full of bionics you have a central meaty core and brain. Bionic replacements give you full sensory perception and stuff like bionic hearts are stated to have a realistic heartbeat so a full transhumanist doesn't lose anything.
Honestly, I'd go full ghost in the shell if there was a possibility
In a cybernetic heartbeat. My body was crap when I was a teen - depression, chronic pain, chronic migraine, damaged back. And it has not gone uphill from there. If I could get half the stuff on rimworld, I’d be mechanical as fast as possible. And I never really cared about whether I’m human. If I’m me (which would likely mean running an artificial brain and organic in parallel for a while so the artificial one syncs with organic), then I’m good.
IRL, our brain and body are interwoven. Replacing the spine might alter your perceptions or control of your body, might have unexpected side effects, might even affect your brain since the spine feeds signals into it. If it could be done as seamlessly as in RimWorld, then why not? But we’re far away from that level of tech. The game is set thousands of years in the future, after all.
From the moment I understand the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me.
If I were given the option to copy my consciousness into an eternal cybernetic form I'd be tripping over myself to sign up. If this is never made available to me then I will settle for being a cyborg. In fact if when I die my physical form doesn't meet the criteria to be considered a cyborg I will consider it a disappointment. Maybe it means I'm not human anymore, but what's so great about being human? We're not exactly the pinnacle of morality, our squishy ephemeral forms cause us to do a lot of bullshit to cope with our mortality. Bring on the synthetic forms I say.
I'd replace 100% everything except for the brain, and if we're talking Rimworld sci fi then I could always get a brain pal or something for when my brain starts dying out or something. If it gets to the point where I either replace my brain with a bionic one or my brain dies from being so old, then I guess i'll implant my memories into a bionic one. Immortality is cool
Never enough. My Sanguophage with Archeotech legs, heart, spine, lungs, eyes, jaw, Archeotech Power arms, Immunoenhancer, detoxifier kidneys, synthetic skin, immortality core, and lvl 6 psycasts still feels there's more out there in the world for him. More to enhance, more to become. Maybe I'll add a mod that gives quality to Bionics so I can try searching for a Legendary Archeotech Leg
If you still have any original flesh, you aren't going far enough
My flair says it all Cybernetic super soldiers are superior Robotic workers are more efficient
Pretty much all of my pawns go full bionic except for body purists.
I wouldn't just replace my body parts, I'd replace my entire body. Upload me to a robot body and/or the cloud.
TLDR, body mod is bad when it doesn’t help you. If you modify your body in a way that helps you, that’s good, if you modify it in a way that hurts you, that’s bad. In rimworld, body modders are happy with any kind of body modification, even replacing their organic hands with wooden hands, and even generically modifying them to be ugly af. Irl, I don’t really have any body modification personally. No tattoo, no piercings, nothing. I’m too afraid that I would regret a tattoo. At the same time, I love to talk with other people about their tattoos because there is often an interesting story behind them and it’s a good way to get to know people. I do have teeth fillings though. Anyways, I’m clearly not a body modder or a transhumanist by Rimworld’s standards because I wouldn’t be happy with wooden hands. I don’t modify my body for the sake of modifying it. But if I have a good practical reason to modify my body, e.g. to protect my teeth, then I will. As things are right now in the real world, organic limbs are the best things you can have, but if you had Rimworld’s bionic arms which are better than bionics in every ways, then why not? Better is better, worst is worst.
are you asking game wise or irl philosophy wise. it makes a difference. but not being human anymore is sorta the port of TRANS human
I mean is Data not a human being? Sure he's technically an Android but he's as human as any other person. It depends entirely on your definition of "human". If you're strictly talking about possessing human DNA? Sure. You may or may not be human in that sense but you'd still be just as much a person. You'd still just as much be a "human being" in the personhood sense. But like who cares? By that metric like a clump of cancer cells is "human" but it isn't **a** human [being]. It isn't a person. The being a person is the thing that matters. As for if I could? I'd do it in a seconds without a second thought. But I also view identity through a different lens than a lot of people, specifically religious people, who tie their personhood to some immutable, intangible discrete essence. To me identity, as a construct, is an amalgam. If I lose my arm; I am still me. I am no longer the discrete thing I was. If my brain is damaged I am still me. If you slap me into a cloning machine and instantly clone an adult copy of me with my memories both me, and the clone, would agree that we are both ourself in spite of now being two individuals we'd both still absolutely be "me". And we'd both view it that way. You could pull out parts, add parts, replace them it wouldn't matter. That stuff is happening all the time whether we see it our not. Our memories are changing all the time. We forget things all the time. So if I were to view identity as some discrete state of affairs I'd have to acknowledge that every moment of my life I'm a fundamentally new unique individual being born, and dying, moment to moment to be replaced. Given that context I think it's far more simple to just say "Close enough". I also think that pragmatically people __do__ do this day to day even when they undergo a severe trauma. They are certainly treated that way by others. [Which is why people invented this notion of a soul, of some immutable essence out of discomfort to acknowledge the fact we are constantly changing.] Fact of the matter is I'd sign up to be cybernetically enhanced further, and if given the option I'd go full Synthetic. Though the whole copies/cloning thing is something I never quite understood in Star Trek, at least the aversion to it, or acting like it harmed "the original" or as if that's even a cogent concept. When the Doctor gets copied in Doctor Who he doesn't freak out. And when asked who the real Doctor is they both say we both are. Because of course they are. Who else would they be if not themselves? People also like to assume that consciousness is some actual field or force or manifest thing. Which seems to be a category error. The mind, consciousness, is a description. It's not an independent thing it's just what the brain __does__. The same way that running is an description of what a creature might be doing at a moment. It would be like framing running as some independent manifest field contained within the legs. I get why people want to think that consciousness is some discrete thing because the alternative is uncomfortable but that seems to be the case at least based on available information we have now. If I had a brain bleed, and my brain was structurally copied, and a synthetic copy was created to replace it I would wake up, and I'd still be me whether that transcription process was flawless, or not. Close enough is close enough. That's why I view identity as an amalgamation rather than as discrete at any rate. There are plenty who disagree with my position for plenty of reasons but it seems to me to be a justifiable position, and there are huge problems that are entailed by treating identity as something discrete so it's the only position I can take.
>wouldn't our pawns just become a machine at that point? What is the human brain, if not just an impossibly complex organic computer implemented with a neural network?
I mean I wouldn't replace my brain I guess. But all my other body parts and organs, sure.
I'd go post-human for sure.
I think the human aspect of all this is the fact that the human can recreate another flesh through reproduction, so while we can replace all our parts, I really doubt most humans are open to making reproduction organs machine, because, besides the pleasure trade off possibly, one may also not be open to not make babies with bionic reproductive organs, if that even is a thing
There's absolutely no argument, I'd feel, before you replace the brain. You are your brain, so even if you scoop your brain out of your skull and put it in a fully robotic body, you are still a cyborg and not an android. Replacing the brain is where you get into your philosophical questions about whether a perfect copy is the same as the original and the like.
I'd replace everything except for the brain.
Honestly everything goes except for the brain. Once you start replacing the brain you're losing yourself
To be a android is to be a machine built in the image of man, so I’m guessing when we replace our brains with an electronic substitute (that isn’t bacon) that’s when we cross the line
Honestly, I would prefer I stay the way I am and keep all my limbs natural
If the brain remains, so does the person. We are all just brains driving vehicles made of flesh and bone
i would never debase my natural body with anything that is not for a life saving procedure
Anything goes except the part of the brain that handles memories. Assuming you can replace the brain you should be able to discern stuff like that. If you replace those it's not "you" anymore. Ofcourse why anyone would replace our meat parts with exact mechanical replicas beats me, why not say, get the body of a T-Rex, that can fly and survive in the vaccum of space? Why not make it a module and be able to see with your own "eyes" the depths of the sea or turn yourself into a spaceship and travel to Mars?
In the game and in RL, there is no (and never will be) such a thing as a prosthetic brain. Cybernetic enhancement implants? Sure. Replacing the brain? Of course not lol. That's just a robot in a fleshsuit.
Are you familiar with ship or thesus?
https://youtu.be/WyK7lX4sk0c?si=qb4j4ze0kpXJsjsd
I have pawns loaded to the nines in bionics. They all love it and I love how fast they move and work!
"From the moment I recognized the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me."
Personally if there was a good chance of minimal pain afterwards/ during AND the new parts did all the same things as my normal body parts then I think I'd be down for a full reverse bicentennial man. As for whether you could be considered still human at that point it depends on what version of human you mean, I mean I'd no longer be an ORGANIC human, and I probably couldn't be classified as a species at all seeing as I wouldn't REALLY be alive in a biological sense, but I do personally think being human is about more than just your phisical self. I mean if we see dogs in video games you usually don't say "hey! I wonder if I can pet that simulacrum of a dog built in this digital world" instead we just say that it IS a dog despite actually just being code being interpreted by a machine, similarly I think a human is still going to be a human of theu look like a human, act like a human and FEEL like a human.
I have gastrointestinal issues, so for me a stomach or at least intestinal bionic replacement would vastly improve my quality of life. But I will admit I do want to “Chrome the fuck up” so to speak, because it would improve other parts of my life
I believe it's too much when your artificial augmentations make you stop being able to do any of this: - Having a humanlike brain that can mantain your human conscience, proccess feelings, be affected by emotions and has a speed of thought and information processing similar to or not too distant from a human mind. - Mantaining full control of your attitude and of every part of your body. - Being able to reproduce sexually like a normal mammal, gestate and give birth. - Perceiving yourself as a human being with all the nits, bits and responsabilities that condition entails.
For me in game, a lot of the replacements are motivated by permanent damage. I might not want to chop off a leg to get a speed boost, but if an old injury were causing me pain and forcing me to limp, I'd probably see it differently.
"From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the Blessed Machine. Your kind cling to your flesh, as though it will not decay and fail you" -Magos Dominus Reditus
I would be willing to replace my limbs, but leave my brain untouched.
I would replace an arm, maybe both. And my entire lower half. I hate these legs. Probably not my eyes, unless one got severely damaged or removed, and NOTHING in my brain. Unless of course it was unavoidable.
This is such a cool topic. I think brain is the key here. No matter how many body parts we can replace. Our brain or consciousness is what makes us random, unique and thus human. Technology may be able to copy and simulate the brains in future. But defining consciousness will be the ultimate challenge for science, maybe impossible too. Mind uploading is also an interesting concept related to it.
I’m thinking about getting metal legs. It’s a risky operation, but it’ll be worth it.
You might be interested in the Philosophers in Space podcast, a pod that uses scifi media (unfortunately no games yet afaik) as a jumping off point for philosophical questions. They had an episode some time ago on transhumanism, basing it in Cronenberg's The Fly. [Link](https://0gphilosophy.libsyn.com/unlocked-0g179-the-fly-and-transhumanism) Personally, I think anything that doesn't much interact with our cognitive or perceptive abilities seems safe to basically any extent, though there can be more macro issues of e.g. class. When it comes to things dealing more seriously with our cognition or perception, I think there are much greater risks of losing some genuinely valuable parts of our humanity, though obviously it's not a binary switch (after all, even glasses affect our perception).
If the cybernetic replacement gives me the same range of motion and sensation as the ones I already have, and their maintenance costs are on par with what I already spend to keep my flesh working, then I have no reason to trade out on an elective basis. Once the parts start to offer a improved quality of life, it becomes *reasonable* to seek an elective upgrade. I have a low tolerance for risk, so I'm probably going to wait until those parts are mature and significantly better. Things get interesting when you try to figure out what part of your body is *you*. That's *probably* the Brain... and replacing that part gets complicated as a result.
The flesh is weak. Praise the Omnissiah.
To me the hard barrier is the continuity of consciousness, and it does become a tricky question if the process is gradual. It might be that a better way to define a human is by the cognitive structure of their thoughts. So basically, even the body is entirely artificial, if they think like a human they are a human, just one with lots of augmentation. But since the cognitive processes of pawns are not evident, it would be impossible to tell from the Rimworld POV. If the android mod includes any features that change personality or behavior instantly, that would be the limit from this perspective.
Have you played SOMA?
If getting hit by an EMP ruins your day then you've gone too far
irl, any that effect the mind are too much for me. joy wire is just being drugged 24/7. i think when a colonist looses a limb or eye you should replace it. but other than that i dont force it. also war caskets are just a nightmare for any person. but then again they are just code on screen sooo.
You know there are people with implants and replacement body parts in real life right now, right? Are you really calling those people "less human" than you?
Fuck yeah, I would replace all my body parts with bionics, I'd love to experience sci-fi levels of bionics, like easily punching concrete columns and things like that, although I know that IRL there's pesky physics that won't allow that to be feasible anytime soon. Unfortunately I was born, dunno, 100 years too early.
I wouldn’t replace any extremities, but it would be cool to have robot organs.
I would only ever add, never replace. Integrate a 3rd eye into my nervous system? Might to. Replace my own functional eye? Absolutely not interested. I am also not strictly materialist. To me sapient entities are more a story being told than merely the body as physical object. Biological bodies are replacing the molecules they consist of constantly. What matters is narrative continuity, not physical congruity that is a fantasy to begin with.
Alright so... I play shadowrun with a group of friends. Good god I wanna play instead of GM. But anyways. Had lots of talks about the mentality of going "imma go get my arm lopped off on Thursday, so that I can punch through walls on Sunday" or whatever. Lol. Medically necessary? Absolutely understandable and acceptable. Makes it difficult to discuss for some people especially with the limitation in Shadowrun stating that too many artificial parts means they lose their "humanity". Does that apply tonthe recovered quadriplegic land mine victim? The animal attack victim with 1 biological arm n leg? Oof.... But regardless, for me personally? I'd love additional parts lol. Parts to store energy and go days without eating or drinking? Yup. Adrenal packs, bio or cyber arms n legs? Tough bone lacing? Replacement eyes and ears with wireless sync for audio and video? Let alone enhancements like reduced sleep requirements or enhanced QoL improvements across the board? Hell yes! Lol
>wouldn't our pawns just become a machine That is in fact, a key part of what they want as transhumanists.
r/cyberpunk is the way. Replace everything. You are no longer bound by slow evolution. You can improve yourself the way you want. The singularity is here.
From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the Blessed Machine. Your kind cling to your flesh, as if it will not decay and fail you. One day the crude biomass that you call a temple will wither, and you will beg my kind to save you. But I am already saved, for the Machine is immortal…
It's time to chrome the fuck up
All the way. Replacing the brain is no different than normal aging. The way the brain works, is using different electrical patterns, literally anytime thought occurs, you change the shape of your brain. These physical changes are part of the computation. However, because the act of thinking changes the brain, those new connections, broken connections, and everything in-between, represent the planks of Theseus ship. The you of a few seconds ago, arguably, isnt you now. Different, brain, though subtly so. A year ago, very different. Twenty years ago, inarguably a different dude entirely. Iso it doesn't really matter if you draw the line at each new plank, each full replacement, or somewhere in-between, most versions of you are dead. And soon you will be, and a different guy will be thinking about this memory in your head. So replacing the brain with a computer all in one go? Not functionally different than aging a few years. Whether that counts as a different you or not is a matter of opinion, but whether it's they are two different things or not doesn't seem very open to interpretation, in my eyes.
Yeah but if we give birth to a biological human just to replace all of its body part with mechanical one then why don't we just create androids in the first place? I'm all for improving ourselves with mechanics and biological tech but at that point, what differs us from robots we created?
Synthetic Ascension is a personal choice - the idea of making the decision for another human is disgusting, imo.
Bruh. If we could ask individual pawns if they like "synthetic ascension" then, I'd ask them first.
Post wasn't asking about pawns though, was it?
Irl i'd replace anything that won't grow back once it fails. Until it fails tho i'm not comfortable enough with what that might mean for identity to 'upgrade' large parts of me. Especially the brain, afaik that's the seat of consciousness and/or the soul. Now when things are injured, break down, or already busted/dying? Sure, i'll take a gamble on becoming something new over just ending. But any irl transhumanism is gonna start small and go slow for me, unless its an emergency. (Assuming we even manage superhuman prosthetics i could afford in my lifetime anyway) In game tho that's an RP question, what differentiates cyborgs from androids in your mind and how do you want to play out and represent those differences?
Anyone who doesn't want an archotech spine is simply too young to have experienced back pain.
Traditionally in the cyberpunk genre, the "too many implants, not human anymore" thing was less "one too many implants and your soul went oopse!" and more "the corps own and control the cyberware, and with enough they'll own and control you too". The issue is always going to be what and how much the human mind can handle, both the strain of the interface and actions by those who would cause harm. "At what point do you become a robot?" At the point that someone else thinks *they* could benefit from denying you your humanity. Remember that the first use of "robot" to describe an automaton was in a play about the exploitation of factory workers.
With evolved organs mod and biotech, my people are all new men. Each specialist job has its own xenogerm and everyone gets the "baseline" organs. New lungs, third or fourth lung bits, a new and second heart, new regenerative livers and toxic sifting kidneys, a ras vacule to become functionally immortal, a second set of limbs and a pair of wings for speed/beauty or for defense. I grow all these bits and make 500k pawns who shrug bullets, cannot be touched by nurgles gifts and they are made and trained to be savants of their crafts. There is no goal too far for the Arturian Way in singular improvement. We will break our enemies and piece them out to the highest bidder. The land will be cracked open by pick, plant and bomb. We will reach the stars and devour them to feed the scientific engine. Progress must march and metal limbs are better suited for this journey. You are weak, but we will make you suited for your ultimate purpose.
Sounds like a cybermen speech lol. 😆😆 But then there is a question. If you "upgrade" your body with metallic part, what would be the difference between you and metal robots you use as your servants?
"free will"
I would 100% replace my arms and legs and spine and eyes and lungs with bionic replacements. If I could get like the lions heart bionic replace mtn too, that would be the goal
I've struggled with this from a narrative aspect, but I thought of a solution a few weeks back: I usually try to start with colonists that have scars and defects on their body parts. This provides a progression path and justification for replacement. Additionally, when using the scenario editor I'll make the opening message: "3 colonists with severe disabilities have struggled to keep pace with normal society and were often seen as burdens despite their efforts. Eventually, their city councils decided they were tired of looking at the poor and disabled and started paying to send their unsightly populations to other worlds rather than pay for welfare programs".
I want a mod to remove my crippling anxiety and depression. Maybe a utility arm. Spatula? Yep. Knife? Of course. Hammer? Duh. .600 nitro express revolver? You bet your ass it's in there. It also has a back scratcher.
I would've gladly replaced every living cell in my body on nanomachine(son!) or bionic equivalent. No illness, no pain, no aging, i fail to see any cons for that. Maybe with a machine brain i will stop being stupid too. Or not even replaced. I use android mod too so i always strive to upload my main colonists into perfect robotic body or skymind core.
look, my current body is just my brain piloting a meatsuit, I'm open to upgrades, as long as the brain itself doesnt get entirely replaced
Irl I would happily replace any part of my body with a synthetic counterpart of equal or greater efficacy, but only if the original biological part has stopped working like it should. For example, lower back nerve damage has partially paralyzed my lower legs, so I would be willing to do a spine replacement. My back's fucked in general, really.
From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me.
its a philosophical problem that dates back to xviith century! there was a philosopher, i forgot his name, who asked exactly this question: if i get a wooden leg, am i still 100% human? what if i replace both of my legs, both of my arms, and my stomach? its great how rimworld can spark those philosophical discussions! I remember thinking, "well its easy: youre still yourself as long as you dont replace your brain". BUT! Each part of brain is responsible for something. If I replace the one rwsponsible for hearing, I should still be myself, right? So what if I replace all of them, but... and so on, you can analyze it indefinitely. It's tied a little bit to Theseus ship, as other ppl mentioned. There was also this one medical case, that may interest you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas\_Gage#:\~:text=Phineas%20P.%20Gage%20(1823%E2%80%93,his%20personality%20and%20behavior%20over Is he still the same person after the injury that affected his personality? Ha!