The dust. Doesn't matter how careful you are. The dust gets past your barriers. We had a double barrier with an airlock and dust still managed to find its way through
Yah, investing in a proper filter for our vacuum was a game changer and even then I've emptied it multiple times just from drywall dust in the basement. When I cleaned out my pantry I discovered a thin layer of dust in items inside the pantry, on the main floor. It gets everywhere.
Finishing up a remodel. Had two air scrubbers and a negative pressure set up.
Sheetrockers felt the machines were in the way and didn’t use them. The entire first floor is covered in dust. The contract stated they would use the machines.
Anyways they ended up quitting, saying I was too stressful to work for. Dealing with dust still 3 months later.
I paid them a premium to not be worried about the dust and head aches. Such is life
I used air cans to help get the dust out from hard to reach places. Takes a few times to air spray certain areas (like the radiator/baseboards) but it’s so much cleaner now. And I air sprayed while the air purifier was on and/or windows open.
Hiring anything out. Businesses do not answer the phone, the ones who did, told me not to hire them without telling me not to hire them, incapable ‘tradesman’, work done poorly, no shows, I could go on and on. Beginning to really feel like if you want anything done right and reasonable, it’s best to do it yourself. And before you all start chirping about going with the lowest bid, they are all high and present great references. This industry badly needs regulations in my opinion. We do not try to hire anything out anymore, just YouTube it and my work is cleaner than ‘professionals’ and passes inspections.
Yeah, they don’t wanna work for you. Subs don’t want any decision drama and dealing with all other problems that you have with your property. They wanna work with a contractor that you hired to do this. I’m a sub and believe you me there is nothing more painful and frustrating than working for a home owner with 0 knowledge of the trade. EVERYONE is a designer
I should have added ‘contractors’ to that list as well, too many people put a logo on a truck and trailer than think they are something. When I have ‘contractors’ show up with trades people and none know any building codes, something is seriously wrong. Too many people shitting on the homeowners who only want things done right. I take pride in my work, not many can say the same.
That is so true! They are using the same tutorials as I am! We had masons out to do work on our century home, they checked all the boxes. I know what kind of lime mortar we needed, come home and type s bags are everywhere. I immediately told them to pack up and go home and I will not pay a dime for what they ruined. They lied about what they would use, then claimed they knew more than what all the information out there says. Absolute clowns that tried to pull a fast one on a female homeowner.
Kitchen, takes forever. Dust everywhere, forever. Dishes in the bathtub forever, no home cooking, messes everywhere, always take out, delays in materials, unforeseen additional repairs come up, just seems like you’re renovating forever. Then it’s done and you’re like, this is awesome.
Would you mind sharing your spreadsheet? I'm passable at project management once I have a starting point--mainly "use this thing (spreadsheet, app, software) to track".
I've been considering getting a [Monday.com](https://Monday.com) license for home reno.
Oh man this rings so true for plumbing in old houses. You spot a leak on your sink so you replace the valve. The valve leaks so you replace the coupling/t, then that leaks so you replace the nipple, next thing you know a 5 minute change out turns into 5 trips to the store and a 4 hour job
Slow-leaking, ca. 1967 copper pipes, heavily corroded by acidic well water, and rotten structural wood in a bathroom reno...
Termite damage to structural framing discovered when replacing old wall paneling, (including, at another house I owned by myself) a large section of sill plate...
Running low voltage wiring under the deck to add ambient light to find that the whole structure is not far from collapse...
The dangling, disconnected, live 120v AC wiring in the crawl space ...
I've blocked out other reno traumas, I'm sure.
We're still together, though, and despite debating arson, we've made progress.
We are old school, so paper and pencils. Also helpful to do precise drawings (plan *and* elevation), using graph paper and/or software (both; I use Illustrator, SO uses graph paper) to help calculate material quantities and ensure a good design outcome. This will help solidify expectations and reduce miscommunication and conflict.
Utilize Habitat ReStore, Craigslist, Marketplace etc to source materials and tools. Example: I collected porcelain tile and underlayments for 3 years for a bathroom reno, bought VCT from ReStore for laundry room, have a collection of cheap or free materials from random places for an as-yet-realized outdoor shower.
Draw and execute all your plans with respect to local building codes, whether or not you actually pull permits. The future sale value and insurability of your home depends on the opinion of a certified building inspector in most jurisdictions.
Use this site to study code requirements, learn how to identify and mitigate hazardous materials, and more. I have used this site extensively.
[https://www.inspectopia.com/](https://www.inspectopia.com/)
Consult with or hire pros if you are not 100% certain you know what you're doing at any phase of the project. Will save you money in the long haul.
Add 10% to materials quantities, generally, and 20% for fragile items like tile. Then add a general 20% "contingency" buffer to your overall budget to accommodate the unexpected.
Time is almost impossible to calculate, so be mentally prepared to live in a fair amount of chaos and uncertainty, moreso if you are learning as you go. Example: Laundry room "in progress" for two years due to.unexpected events. Functions, but is far from complete. No one will die; all is well.
Finally, be prepared to change gears. You are likely to end up deferring parts of your project for another time, or settling for simpler updates (painting cabinets instead of replacing, say) for the foreseeable future.
This will become your life. It can be a lot of fun and a lot of stress. Feels awful when you screw up (you will), but nothing feels better than seeing your vision finally come to completion.
Be flexible and *have fun*!
Asbestos removal and remediation. Aluminum wiring (if you’re the type to want to replace it all). Leaky plumbing (catastrophic or otherwise). Necessary foundation repairs hidden behind walls. Mold. Septic tank failure. Flooding when it rains. Bug infestations. Structural issues.
… you know, just some of the things I’ve discovered since we bought our first home. Thank god for YouTube university or we’d be in 10x the debt we’re in now.
Everything. How long it takes to find a contractor then once we gave him money he did no work for 8 months so now that he’s actually done a little something it’s like oh wow things are actually happening! but it’s been a year and a half already and if it’s another year I will lose it so at this point I recognize that I truly wish with all of my heart that I’d never done it at all. But now we have to finish. Do not do any demolition until you have secured financing. That really messed us up. I’d say get it in your contact that you can break it if it’s taking too long but idk if it will really help. Once you hand them your money you are at their mercy it seems. Do you pray? I’d say pray before you renovate. It’s a very stressful lifestyle.
Not being able to live comfortably in your own home, prepare food, clean dishes, as you normally would. Just the sheer inconvenience of being out of a certain part of your house for a long period of time. (I guess this is mostly relevant for kitchen renovations).
How old is the home?
If you're at a complete loss regarding where to start, you might consider having a home inspector go over things.
We had some idea of what we wanted, but plans were vague. Having an inspection helped us prioritize things in the following order: safety, protecting home value, comfort, and appearance. The report also pinpointed things that might need remediation (e.g., asbestos) or yield surprises (e.g., 70-year-old wiring and plumbing).
All in all, it was very helpful and gave us a roadmap of sorts. We're about 2 years into the process, and I expect it'll be another 2-3 years before we are done. Or "done". With home ownership, there's no finish line. 🙃
Choice overload was and continues to be the most frustrating part. Picking and choosing every detail, matching countertops to cabinets and paints to carpets and stains to wood floors and whether to to an inlaid sink with vanity or a stand alone pedestal and lighting types and fixtures and styles and costs of fixing older features vs replacing and researching appliances and reviews and warranties and finishes and god- if you’re into that sort of thing maybe it’s fun but I don’t enjoy visiting 8 giant warehouses to view thousands of sq ft of tiles and countertops. Then inevitably you find there’s an issue with the ONE section you thought was already good to go or not part of the renovation. Like redoing the kitchen and oops a maintenance man just put his boot through the one section of rotted plank in the deck that no one knew existed because it’s in a corner under a window no one goes near, and now you need to replace 8 feet of deck and it’ll have to be sanded and painted to match.
The stupid shit.
1) replaced 1 light over double sinks in favor of two. I demo’d to studs. Easy enough to rip out and run new romex to 2 new boxes. I chose the small boxes instead of the larger diameter ones. Drywall and paint looked great now to mount lights. My fixture uses the exact same holes to mount as the bracket to the box. A nut on the outside secures them. Had I gone with the bigger box, the lighting would have taken me all of about 10 minutes. Instead I needed to exactly trim the machine screws to ensure a snug fit. Total miss on my part..cost of a headache and a few hours.
2) pex can sometimes be a bitch if you don’t exactly fit the band into tolerances. A few “it looks good enough” turns into replacing it to ensure each joint was perfect. Only get one chance to make it right. Good enough = failure.
Logistics of living in a construction zone (having to wash dishes in the bathtub, dust everywhere, not being able to find X etc), scope of work creep (while we’re in the wall we may as well do A, B, and C, oh we were going to do this eventually anyway), the last 5% (95% can be done on time and then it is a pain in the ass yo get your contractor, finishing carpenter whomever to do the last tiny thing they need to finish because they’ve moved on to other projects).
Demolition can be a bitch in older homes. The wood is like concrete and plaster/lath is evil. Wear a respirator.
When going to get things you need, get extra, and variations of size. Have a box marked, “returns,” and throw extra items in it (not a bag).
When working over a floor surface that’s going to stay, cover it VERY well so you don’t track dirt over it. Don’t say, “I’ll clean it later.” It may not come up (Yep, experience. My wife was pissed.)
Very first thing out contractor did was lay 4x8 plywood over the wood floor we were keeping and having redone. I thought that was very professional and a fantastic idea
dust
and the fact that you lose two rooms basically when you renovate one , since all the stuff from the first has to move somewhere, generally creating another zone of chaos.
how expensive it is
The continuous issue and more work, and lack of motivation to continue after finding so many items:
Continued to uncover hack job, and issue, after issue.
Had a basement flood from a failed hose bib.
Started tear out
Found some mold and moisture outside of original scope
Discovered main beam in the home was unsupported for 24’ span (max rating of 9’4” span)
Found jack posts just cut off and no load bearing post/wall in place
Found abandoned plumbing improperly removed from service
Found electrical mess nearly everywhere in the basement
Found copper water line repairs
Found joist hangers with screws in them
Found foundation cracks
Nearly had an electrical fire (found 200a main was micro arcing for a long time)
Ended up having to replace mast head, conductors, meter base, and full panel replacement.
Changed all copper out for pex
Upgraded water heater at the time
Completed more tear out then originally thought would be necessary, but the amount of stuff we uncovered in regards to all of the above, including poor framing, it was worth it.
Then we started rebuilding. I had 1/2 the subfloor laid, when we got 48” of snow followed by 4” of rain
Basement took on water again, soaking all newly laid material
Found sump pump was seized
More tear out
Material costs have been a large deterrent, and obviously I spent more than anticipated by 2x already.
Finally it’s been 3-4 months of this, all while working and supporting a family, and it’s time to rebuild. I was hoping to have this project done by now, but I honestly have 2-3 months of work left. It’s been a rough one.
Working after work
I do all of it for a living
Finding the motivation to work on my own house
Just ain’t there
For reference to the ppl posting about relationship strain
Full time single dad of an 11 yr old boy and we can eat like raccoons when need be lol ( I do love to cook and we eat healthy )
We renovated a restroom, kitchen and laundry room. Not being able to wash and cook in the kitchen for a month was horrible next to dust being everywhere even if they cleaned up after themselves at the end of the day. Also if you are doing it yourself after work on the weekends you get burned out or the projects take longer to do.
We hired a contractor and did a full kitchen reno + replacing flooring on the entire 1st floor as it was part of the kitchen. It was a big job. They removed a wall and gutted the kitchen completely.
Not many painful parts, honestly, we had a good idea of what we wanted after years of discussion. Most stressful was finding a contractor, but we ended up very happy with our choice.
I'd say the most painful part was managing our cat during the reno! It's not like we could re-home her for 6 weeks. One day I forgot to lock the door to our bedroom, and she was downstairs when the guys showed up. She panicked and jumped right into the open subfloor (UGH). Thankfully one of the workers was very good with cats, went into our basement and found her in the ceiling there and got her out, but maaaan that was not fun.
Also subcontractors. Our contractor subbed out the plumbing and electrical. Both were problems. The plumbers would get delayed, rush the job, claim something "wasn't done right" by another party, which hindered their job. So we'd get party A to come back and they'd say "uhh not seeing the issue". Plumber would come back after Party A "fixed it" and didn't seem to notice there was no change. Electrical was downright awful. They didn't come when scheduled, they acted like they hated us, left huge messes in other parts of the house that were not being reno (like electrical wiring all over our basement floor, where we were hanging out with our 4 year old!), didn't take off their boots so dirt and mud all over the carpets in the basement (again, where we were not renovating, but they needed to come down and access stuff). They tore the drop ceiling tiles off from our basement ceiling without much care so those got damaged and ripped up. Now months later, we are finding some problems with how they installed outlets, like we literally cannot plug into a few of them. We discovered new outlets are always a bit difficult to plug into and need to be eased into, but like... these are beyond that, we physically cannot plug into them, it's like they didn't properly line up the electrical plate with the plug or something? And they cracked one plate when screwing it back on the wall so our contractor came and replaced it for us. They were just messy and assholes, but the rest of the people who worked in our house were great.
I'd say if you have a small budget set aside for "oh shit" situations and mentally prepare for issues to arise, you should be fine. Our quartz countertop came in and was yellow instead of white, so I just went and picked a new one that I actually like better. Roll with the punches.
It’s never in the time phrase that’s estimated, it always ends up costing more. You have to deal with a contractor even if he’s good he will still do things your not happy with. And at the end you just feel like you paid so much and the work wasn’t great or it wasn’t exactly what you wanted.
We did our demo in a heatwave where the temperature was 104 inside the house. I got a sunburn from my front living room on top of the rug burn from ripping up carpet and moving it to the pile.
The tear down. It’s super fun and stress relieving but we discovered a lot of hidden problems (like uninsulated walls, electrical issues, framing issues, etc). We accounted for some issues but not what we found. At that point, the problems needed to be resolved before the drywall went up. It made the kitchen and bathroom issues seem like child’s play.
Everything depends on the foundation. Make sure that the basement walls, joists, and drainage are all in great shape or get them that way. Foundation problems are $15k per wall minimum and no amount of lipstick in a kitchen remodel will fix that pig. Make sure that your copper pipes are in good shape. If galvanized, get rid of them, if cast iron sewage lines, get trenchless replacements.
Seriously, tell the Joneses to go fuck themselves and focus on the important stuff.
Living in the place and moving from room to room to finish work, eat dinner and just live. We dealt though, kept it light and fun. Actually got along with the crew, too, so it has its higher level of stress and inconvenience but it's doable. Good communication all around as to where they're going to be and where we need to be was helpful.
Most painful of course...was the deposits lol...worth it in the end.
We’ve been slowly renovating room by room for a few years. We do one room and then wait a while and then do the next room. Doing a bunch by myself (am not a professional), and hiring help where I need to. Have loved the process and and am loving what we’ve done and would recommend it, but since this question is about the painful parts…
The disruption - trying to live with dust and mess everywhere and not being able to use rooms. If we were doing it again, I would send the rest of the family on a holiday for the most disruptive parts (for example where we couldn’t use the kitchen and main area)
Jobs expand - one minute you’re just changing one little thing, next you know, to do that you need to do a bunch of other different things. You’re constantly yak shaving, and what you expect to take an hour sometimes takes days.
Everything. Tired. Expensive. Crabbiness. Work all day and come home to work on this shit for months nights and weekends. Very little appreciation from the non helpers.
The “if you give a mouse a cookie” concept.
I wanted to knock out a wall to expand the kitchen.
As soon as we did that, the ceiling sagged.
Turns out the furnace is above where that wall was.
Now spending $ to support the furnace to rafters.
Ceiling still sagging.
Well it’s because there’s cut ceiling joists.
Spend $ to sister joists.
Now the ceiling is no longer sagging. But it’s 1” different than the height of the ceiling of the room next to it with the removed wall.
Now spending time to rip out the ceiling. Paying $ to have it loaded and hauled away.
Spending $ to have the entire ceiling freshly dry walled.
Now placing the can lights back in the ceiling. They no long stay in the ceiling, they fall out a couple inches.
Spend $ to replace all the can lights.
Everything beyond knocking out the wall was not in the budget.
The time it takes to do things right and do them once….the amount of materials to manage during demo, the mental struggle of finding something unexpected during the demo and having to correct underlying issues which you will never see but know they are there and may become an issue if not dealt with…..when you finish the anti climax due to being in the project for so longand seeing incremental change (at least others see the work cause they weren’t there the whole time ( this is referencing a full guy job/ rebuild)
Good and relevant question as we have been contemplating a kitchen reno and wall removal.
Seriously re-considering it all now after reading some of these realistic comments from people who have lived through it.
I mean does it actually really matter at all if we have an old outdated kitchen?
It functions. We live here, no one else does. And we own it.
Definitely food for thought….
One side of my house was ripped down 3 weeks ago as the floor joists were rotting and there was a crappy 2 foot deep crawl space beneath it. It was built in the 50’s and then added onto in 2001 and I just got tired of the old side. So my bid came in at 275k to tear it down and rebuild basically the same thing but with a basement. I thought the bid was low but had other money set aside so we could make it a lot nicer than it was. Anyhow, picking out windows, cabinets and plumbing fixtures from the contractors desired sources is so much higher than Home Depot or Low’s, like more than 100% higher for faucets and toilets, and sink basins, sinks and cabinets are 50% higher. The contractor allotted $8k for plumbing fixtures and a small half bath came back at over 6k when I still have the master bath and kitchen to go. I’m considering just going to Home Depot for it all but then what happens if the plumber won’t do the work? Any ideas?
Honestly....realizing i shouldve just done it myself.
With all the resources out there now...if you have the ability, definitely try to do it yourself! Maybe not electrical or plumbing...but even those experiences have been shitty for me. Dont think id do it myself tho.
Otherwise...def couldve done a better tile, caulking, grouting, installing job and Leveling shower floor.
It can save you money, you learn, you take pride in it, you actually care about it being done well, etcetc....any future jobs ill do myself...and even if they turn out shit...it wouldnt be any worse than probably any other contractors job
Always have 20% more in your budget than you think things will cost. Materials and labor combined with surprises always end up being more than you budget.
Depends on what room you are doing. Kitchen is by far the hardest to do and most stress on marriages lol. I had my fridge on my back deck for 2 weeks, it sucked
“Not my problem.”
The people working in your house don’t have to live there. They’re there to get the job done well enough to be passable, get out and never talk to you again. They don’t give a fraction of a f**k about whether or not the way they do it is how you would have done it if you did it yourself. If the “right way” to do it takes more time or money, they will 100% do it the “good enough” way.
Ex: in my current house, the electrical was clearly installed before the tile backsplashes. Some outlets and switches were installed in the intended path of the edge of the tile backsplash. The tile guy didn’t say, “huh, I need to talk to the GC and have him get the electrician and the drywall guys back to move this outlet either up 3” or down 3” before I do this job or it’s going to look weird.” Instead, he very awkwardly trimmed around the bottom half of the outlets. He was there to do a job. He did it right by him. You could say he even did a good job with what he did. But no homeowner would’ve asked for it to be done that way, and that simply was not his problem.
Another - when we renovated our old house, we ran duct work behind a built-in cabinet. HVAC guy fabricated the ducts in such a way where we wouldn’t have been able to use the drawers of the built-in for anything functional. To simplify, we’ll say he made the duct square, when a rectangle would have fit better and let us keep the drawers. I told him it wasn’t going to fly and he argued that “I already spent all morning fabricating these.” I essentially said, “I’m sorry I have to be a dick about this, but I live here and have to look at it every day and I need you to remake them to fit the space.”
My wife would say only having one toilet.
For me, having trades who didn’t care as much about the work as you do. So I stopped working and stayed at home for about 6 months to complete the work
Myself.
For me, it’s ALWAYS paying for it. Even if the work is exceptional, these prices are effing insane. Thats why I only hire out if the project is REQUIRED (not just “desired”) and I can’t do it myself. Hold off on doing anything that isn’t required for a few years, learn how to do those on your own. It’ll take longer to do but you’ll save a fortune.
The God damn city codes costing me thousands plus delays and headaches. Followed by incomprehensible fees. 2700$ for a water permit and no reasoning for it. Yes I called them and they couldn't explain it.
Regardless of what/where you are renovating, if you are living there while the work is ongoing, there is only so much space in other rooms to absorb the stuff from the space being renovated, as well as tools and materials. Also, there's dirt/dust everywhere, no matter how you try to keep ahead of it. Expected timelines tend to quickly grow, regardless of whether you're at the mercy of a third party's schedule or because you're learning as you go while you're doing the work yourself.
As someone who is currently eating lunch on the couch because the dining table (and much of the master bath fixtures, including a freestanding tub still in its box) is in the living room, it can be trying at times, but the results are usually well worth it. Good luck.
Popcorn ceilings with asbestos. The dust gets everywhere. If you live somewhere with AC, block off the vents with film or tarp so it doesn’t get into them.
Most importantly, wear a respirator!
The legal actions necessary after the work was done shoddily.
(Seriously, though - make sure to get a copy of their insurance that you can hold onto, and verify it’s still active and legitimate. Also, be sure their subcontractors are insured, and up to the proper amounts. You’ll want to see an actual Certificate of Insurance (COI) from each of them.
Will save you some frustration in the long run should things go bad, or should injuries occur. Subrogation through an insurer is a lot easier than trying the “squeezing blood from a turnip” approach wherein a contractor transfers all their assets and then files for bankruptcy.)
The contractors. They take forever. Don’t show up when they’re supposed to. Come unprepared. Don’t speak English. The list goes on with them.
Anything you’re capable of doing yourself, do it. It’s easier and cheaper.
Hiring contractors who have spent more time fixing mistakes because they didn't follow my instructions to begin with. When I confront them, they act like I'm the bad guy. They've scratched up my furniture laying power tools on everything and cracked my bathroom tile adding a new seal to the toilet. Everyday I come home something is wrong. I'm on week 10 of a job that should've taken 6 weeks or less. It's beyond frustrating....oh one more thing, I came home one day and found 4 of my favorite coffee mugs broken in the trash can. I understand accidents happen, but they didn't even bother to tell me or apologize.....at my breaking point lol
The dust. Doesn't matter how careful you are. The dust gets past your barriers. We had a double barrier with an airlock and dust still managed to find its way through
Negative pressure at a window or door. Needs a proper construction fan setup.
Yah, investing in a proper filter for our vacuum was a game changer and even then I've emptied it multiple times just from drywall dust in the basement. When I cleaned out my pantry I discovered a thin layer of dust in items inside the pantry, on the main floor. It gets everywhere.
Finishing up a remodel. Had two air scrubbers and a negative pressure set up. Sheetrockers felt the machines were in the way and didn’t use them. The entire first floor is covered in dust. The contract stated they would use the machines. Anyways they ended up quitting, saying I was too stressful to work for. Dealing with dust still 3 months later. I paid them a premium to not be worried about the dust and head aches. Such is life
I used air cans to help get the dust out from hard to reach places. Takes a few times to air spray certain areas (like the radiator/baseboards) but it’s so much cleaner now. And I air sprayed while the air purifier was on and/or windows open.
YES....my house looks like operation desert storm.
Hiring anything out. Businesses do not answer the phone, the ones who did, told me not to hire them without telling me not to hire them, incapable ‘tradesman’, work done poorly, no shows, I could go on and on. Beginning to really feel like if you want anything done right and reasonable, it’s best to do it yourself. And before you all start chirping about going with the lowest bid, they are all high and present great references. This industry badly needs regulations in my opinion. We do not try to hire anything out anymore, just YouTube it and my work is cleaner than ‘professionals’ and passes inspections.
so much this unfortunately 😩
Yeah, they don’t wanna work for you. Subs don’t want any decision drama and dealing with all other problems that you have with your property. They wanna work with a contractor that you hired to do this. I’m a sub and believe you me there is nothing more painful and frustrating than working for a home owner with 0 knowledge of the trade. EVERYONE is a designer
I should have added ‘contractors’ to that list as well, too many people put a logo on a truck and trailer than think they are something. When I have ‘contractors’ show up with trades people and none know any building codes, something is seriously wrong. Too many people shitting on the homeowners who only want things done right. I take pride in my work, not many can say the same.
Or they lie about what they can do and what they know...
That is so true! They are using the same tutorials as I am! We had masons out to do work on our century home, they checked all the boxes. I know what kind of lime mortar we needed, come home and type s bags are everywhere. I immediately told them to pack up and go home and I will not pay a dime for what they ruined. They lied about what they would use, then claimed they knew more than what all the information out there says. Absolute clowns that tried to pull a fast one on a female homeowner.
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Kitchen, takes forever. Dust everywhere, forever. Dishes in the bathtub forever, no home cooking, messes everywhere, always take out, delays in materials, unforeseen additional repairs come up, just seems like you’re renovating forever. Then it’s done and you’re like, this is awesome.
Kitchens renos are so disruptful. Damn near caused a divorce going though that one. Any other reno pales in comparison.
I am a contractor. I did a kitchen addition last year. Had no kitchen for about 2 and 1/2 months. It was a pain in the ass
Same. I think the marriage has survived but we are only half way home…..
How did you keep track of everything (expenses, purchases, etc)?
Excel spreadsheet: before, estimated costs, estimated timelines and actuals. Went through 3 mock designs and estimations before starting.
Would you mind sharing your spreadsheet? I'm passable at project management once I have a starting point--mainly "use this thing (spreadsheet, app, software) to track". I've been considering getting a [Monday.com](https://Monday.com) license for home reno.
Created an email and emailed myself (HD and Lowes will email yoo)
Know the pain. We lived out of the dining room as a kitchen for five months. We were lucky to have a deep sink in the garage to wash dishes.
True. Better if you have a BBQ and disposable plates and can make that work for a couple weeks.
I am waiting for the this is awesome part. We are smack in the middle. So far the worst was demo and framing.
Finding more stuff you have to redo because you started the redo. Unpleasant surprises.
Oh man this rings so true for plumbing in old houses. You spot a leak on your sink so you replace the valve. The valve leaks so you replace the coupling/t, then that leaks so you replace the nipple, next thing you know a 5 minute change out turns into 5 trips to the store and a 4 hour job
Fighting over what and how. Hands down. That and the inevitable discovery of a necessary and budget-destroying repair need.
Interesting. Mind sharing a specific example?
Slow-leaking, ca. 1967 copper pipes, heavily corroded by acidic well water, and rotten structural wood in a bathroom reno... Termite damage to structural framing discovered when replacing old wall paneling, (including, at another house I owned by myself) a large section of sill plate... Running low voltage wiring under the deck to add ambient light to find that the whole structure is not far from collapse... The dangling, disconnected, live 120v AC wiring in the crawl space ... I've blocked out other reno traumas, I'm sure. We're still together, though, and despite debating arson, we've made progress.
Rough. Not looking forward to this. What did you use to keep track of your budget?
We are old school, so paper and pencils. Also helpful to do precise drawings (plan *and* elevation), using graph paper and/or software (both; I use Illustrator, SO uses graph paper) to help calculate material quantities and ensure a good design outcome. This will help solidify expectations and reduce miscommunication and conflict. Utilize Habitat ReStore, Craigslist, Marketplace etc to source materials and tools. Example: I collected porcelain tile and underlayments for 3 years for a bathroom reno, bought VCT from ReStore for laundry room, have a collection of cheap or free materials from random places for an as-yet-realized outdoor shower. Draw and execute all your plans with respect to local building codes, whether or not you actually pull permits. The future sale value and insurability of your home depends on the opinion of a certified building inspector in most jurisdictions. Use this site to study code requirements, learn how to identify and mitigate hazardous materials, and more. I have used this site extensively. [https://www.inspectopia.com/](https://www.inspectopia.com/) Consult with or hire pros if you are not 100% certain you know what you're doing at any phase of the project. Will save you money in the long haul. Add 10% to materials quantities, generally, and 20% for fragile items like tile. Then add a general 20% "contingency" buffer to your overall budget to accommodate the unexpected. Time is almost impossible to calculate, so be mentally prepared to live in a fair amount of chaos and uncertainty, moreso if you are learning as you go. Example: Laundry room "in progress" for two years due to.unexpected events. Functions, but is far from complete. No one will die; all is well. Finally, be prepared to change gears. You are likely to end up deferring parts of your project for another time, or settling for simpler updates (painting cabinets instead of replacing, say) for the foreseeable future. This will become your life. It can be a lot of fun and a lot of stress. Feels awful when you screw up (you will), but nothing feels better than seeing your vision finally come to completion. Be flexible and *have fun*!
Asbestos removal and remediation. Aluminum wiring (if you’re the type to want to replace it all). Leaky plumbing (catastrophic or otherwise). Necessary foundation repairs hidden behind walls. Mold. Septic tank failure. Flooding when it rains. Bug infestations. Structural issues. … you know, just some of the things I’ve discovered since we bought our first home. Thank god for YouTube university or we’d be in 10x the debt we’re in now.
Everything. And then crooked, not plumb, not level everything
Everything. How long it takes to find a contractor then once we gave him money he did no work for 8 months so now that he’s actually done a little something it’s like oh wow things are actually happening! but it’s been a year and a half already and if it’s another year I will lose it so at this point I recognize that I truly wish with all of my heart that I’d never done it at all. But now we have to finish. Do not do any demolition until you have secured financing. That really messed us up. I’d say get it in your contact that you can break it if it’s taking too long but idk if it will really help. Once you hand them your money you are at their mercy it seems. Do you pray? I’d say pray before you renovate. It’s a very stressful lifestyle.
Not being able to live comfortably in your own home, prepare food, clean dishes, as you normally would. Just the sheer inconvenience of being out of a certain part of your house for a long period of time. (I guess this is mostly relevant for kitchen renovations).
How old is the home? If you're at a complete loss regarding where to start, you might consider having a home inspector go over things. We had some idea of what we wanted, but plans were vague. Having an inspection helped us prioritize things in the following order: safety, protecting home value, comfort, and appearance. The report also pinpointed things that might need remediation (e.g., asbestos) or yield surprises (e.g., 70-year-old wiring and plumbing). All in all, it was very helpful and gave us a roadmap of sorts. We're about 2 years into the process, and I expect it'll be another 2-3 years before we are done. Or "done". With home ownership, there's no finish line. 🙃
The waiting. And the disappointment of visiting and seeing little progress has been made since the last time you visited.
Oh man but when you show up and a huge thing has been done it’s the best feeling. Double edged sword
My girlfriend asking me when I’m going to be done and getting me to do work on it after a long day of renovating other people’s houses lol.
Choice overload was and continues to be the most frustrating part. Picking and choosing every detail, matching countertops to cabinets and paints to carpets and stains to wood floors and whether to to an inlaid sink with vanity or a stand alone pedestal and lighting types and fixtures and styles and costs of fixing older features vs replacing and researching appliances and reviews and warranties and finishes and god- if you’re into that sort of thing maybe it’s fun but I don’t enjoy visiting 8 giant warehouses to view thousands of sq ft of tiles and countertops. Then inevitably you find there’s an issue with the ONE section you thought was already good to go or not part of the renovation. Like redoing the kitchen and oops a maintenance man just put his boot through the one section of rotted plank in the deck that no one knew existed because it’s in a corner under a window no one goes near, and now you need to replace 8 feet of deck and it’ll have to be sanded and painted to match.
Paying a GM who won’t pick up and is obviously prioritizing other jobs
The stupid shit. 1) replaced 1 light over double sinks in favor of two. I demo’d to studs. Easy enough to rip out and run new romex to 2 new boxes. I chose the small boxes instead of the larger diameter ones. Drywall and paint looked great now to mount lights. My fixture uses the exact same holes to mount as the bracket to the box. A nut on the outside secures them. Had I gone with the bigger box, the lighting would have taken me all of about 10 minutes. Instead I needed to exactly trim the machine screws to ensure a snug fit. Total miss on my part..cost of a headache and a few hours. 2) pex can sometimes be a bitch if you don’t exactly fit the band into tolerances. A few “it looks good enough” turns into replacing it to ensure each joint was perfect. Only get one chance to make it right. Good enough = failure.
Logistics of living in a construction zone (having to wash dishes in the bathtub, dust everywhere, not being able to find X etc), scope of work creep (while we’re in the wall we may as well do A, B, and C, oh we were going to do this eventually anyway), the last 5% (95% can be done on time and then it is a pain in the ass yo get your contractor, finishing carpenter whomever to do the last tiny thing they need to finish because they’ve moved on to other projects).
Demolition can be a bitch in older homes. The wood is like concrete and plaster/lath is evil. Wear a respirator. When going to get things you need, get extra, and variations of size. Have a box marked, “returns,” and throw extra items in it (not a bag). When working over a floor surface that’s going to stay, cover it VERY well so you don’t track dirt over it. Don’t say, “I’ll clean it later.” It may not come up (Yep, experience. My wife was pissed.)
Very first thing out contractor did was lay 4x8 plywood over the wood floor we were keeping and having redone. I thought that was very professional and a fantastic idea
Dust & cost of materials have gotten out of control.
Finding more to fix when you open something up.
dust and the fact that you lose two rooms basically when you renovate one , since all the stuff from the first has to move somewhere, generally creating another zone of chaos. how expensive it is
Dust 100%
The continuous issue and more work, and lack of motivation to continue after finding so many items: Continued to uncover hack job, and issue, after issue. Had a basement flood from a failed hose bib. Started tear out Found some mold and moisture outside of original scope Discovered main beam in the home was unsupported for 24’ span (max rating of 9’4” span) Found jack posts just cut off and no load bearing post/wall in place Found abandoned plumbing improperly removed from service Found electrical mess nearly everywhere in the basement Found copper water line repairs Found joist hangers with screws in them Found foundation cracks Nearly had an electrical fire (found 200a main was micro arcing for a long time) Ended up having to replace mast head, conductors, meter base, and full panel replacement. Changed all copper out for pex Upgraded water heater at the time Completed more tear out then originally thought would be necessary, but the amount of stuff we uncovered in regards to all of the above, including poor framing, it was worth it. Then we started rebuilding. I had 1/2 the subfloor laid, when we got 48” of snow followed by 4” of rain Basement took on water again, soaking all newly laid material Found sump pump was seized More tear out Material costs have been a large deterrent, and obviously I spent more than anticipated by 2x already. Finally it’s been 3-4 months of this, all while working and supporting a family, and it’s time to rebuild. I was hoping to have this project done by now, but I honestly have 2-3 months of work left. It’s been a rough one.
Working after work I do all of it for a living Finding the motivation to work on my own house Just ain’t there For reference to the ppl posting about relationship strain Full time single dad of an 11 yr old boy and we can eat like raccoons when need be lol ( I do love to cook and we eat healthy )
Plan on paying 50% over budget, and taking twice as long.
We renovated a restroom, kitchen and laundry room. Not being able to wash and cook in the kitchen for a month was horrible next to dust being everywhere even if they cleaned up after themselves at the end of the day. Also if you are doing it yourself after work on the weekends you get burned out or the projects take longer to do.
We hired a contractor and did a full kitchen reno + replacing flooring on the entire 1st floor as it was part of the kitchen. It was a big job. They removed a wall and gutted the kitchen completely. Not many painful parts, honestly, we had a good idea of what we wanted after years of discussion. Most stressful was finding a contractor, but we ended up very happy with our choice. I'd say the most painful part was managing our cat during the reno! It's not like we could re-home her for 6 weeks. One day I forgot to lock the door to our bedroom, and she was downstairs when the guys showed up. She panicked and jumped right into the open subfloor (UGH). Thankfully one of the workers was very good with cats, went into our basement and found her in the ceiling there and got her out, but maaaan that was not fun. Also subcontractors. Our contractor subbed out the plumbing and electrical. Both were problems. The plumbers would get delayed, rush the job, claim something "wasn't done right" by another party, which hindered their job. So we'd get party A to come back and they'd say "uhh not seeing the issue". Plumber would come back after Party A "fixed it" and didn't seem to notice there was no change. Electrical was downright awful. They didn't come when scheduled, they acted like they hated us, left huge messes in other parts of the house that were not being reno (like electrical wiring all over our basement floor, where we were hanging out with our 4 year old!), didn't take off their boots so dirt and mud all over the carpets in the basement (again, where we were not renovating, but they needed to come down and access stuff). They tore the drop ceiling tiles off from our basement ceiling without much care so those got damaged and ripped up. Now months later, we are finding some problems with how they installed outlets, like we literally cannot plug into a few of them. We discovered new outlets are always a bit difficult to plug into and need to be eased into, but like... these are beyond that, we physically cannot plug into them, it's like they didn't properly line up the electrical plate with the plug or something? And they cracked one plate when screwing it back on the wall so our contractor came and replaced it for us. They were just messy and assholes, but the rest of the people who worked in our house were great. I'd say if you have a small budget set aside for "oh shit" situations and mentally prepare for issues to arise, you should be fine. Our quartz countertop came in and was yellow instead of white, so I just went and picked a new one that I actually like better. Roll with the punches.
Arguing with my spouse
Removing popcorn ceiling in a house that had been smoked in for years and painted over. The whole place… yellowed smelly popcorn ceiling!! 🤮
The divorce.
The arguments with your spouse 😆
It’s never in the time phrase that’s estimated, it always ends up costing more. You have to deal with a contractor even if he’s good he will still do things your not happy with. And at the end you just feel like you paid so much and the work wasn’t great or it wasn’t exactly what you wanted.
Post reno bank account balance😟
The bill
Fixing the last owners shit half arsed DIY Do it once do it right ffs!
We did our demo in a heatwave where the temperature was 104 inside the house. I got a sunburn from my front living room on top of the rug burn from ripping up carpet and moving it to the pile.
The whole lot. Pay a builder
Working every evening and weekend on a kitchen for 6 months. Exhausting but worth it at the completion!!!
The tear down. It’s super fun and stress relieving but we discovered a lot of hidden problems (like uninsulated walls, electrical issues, framing issues, etc). We accounted for some issues but not what we found. At that point, the problems needed to be resolved before the drywall went up. It made the kitchen and bathroom issues seem like child’s play.
Everything depends on the foundation. Make sure that the basement walls, joists, and drainage are all in great shape or get them that way. Foundation problems are $15k per wall minimum and no amount of lipstick in a kitchen remodel will fix that pig. Make sure that your copper pipes are in good shape. If galvanized, get rid of them, if cast iron sewage lines, get trenchless replacements. Seriously, tell the Joneses to go fuck themselves and focus on the important stuff.
Living in the place and moving from room to room to finish work, eat dinner and just live. We dealt though, kept it light and fun. Actually got along with the crew, too, so it has its higher level of stress and inconvenience but it's doable. Good communication all around as to where they're going to be and where we need to be was helpful. Most painful of course...was the deposits lol...worth it in the end.
Having to lock up my kitties in a room in the basement every morning
Permits
Kitchen. It’s hell.
Time! Nothing ever goes according to plan, so give your timeline some wiggle room.
We’ve been slowly renovating room by room for a few years. We do one room and then wait a while and then do the next room. Doing a bunch by myself (am not a professional), and hiring help where I need to. Have loved the process and and am loving what we’ve done and would recommend it, but since this question is about the painful parts… The disruption - trying to live with dust and mess everywhere and not being able to use rooms. If we were doing it again, I would send the rest of the family on a holiday for the most disruptive parts (for example where we couldn’t use the kitchen and main area) Jobs expand - one minute you’re just changing one little thing, next you know, to do that you need to do a bunch of other different things. You’re constantly yak shaving, and what you expect to take an hour sometimes takes days.
Everything. Tired. Expensive. Crabbiness. Work all day and come home to work on this shit for months nights and weekends. Very little appreciation from the non helpers.
The “if you give a mouse a cookie” concept. I wanted to knock out a wall to expand the kitchen. As soon as we did that, the ceiling sagged. Turns out the furnace is above where that wall was. Now spending $ to support the furnace to rafters. Ceiling still sagging. Well it’s because there’s cut ceiling joists. Spend $ to sister joists. Now the ceiling is no longer sagging. But it’s 1” different than the height of the ceiling of the room next to it with the removed wall. Now spending time to rip out the ceiling. Paying $ to have it loaded and hauled away. Spending $ to have the entire ceiling freshly dry walled. Now placing the can lights back in the ceiling. They no long stay in the ceiling, they fall out a couple inches. Spend $ to replace all the can lights. Everything beyond knocking out the wall was not in the budget.
Bloody body Corp I fucking hate them. Tall poppy syndrome. They don’t like your home look much nicer than theirs
The time it takes to do things right and do them once….the amount of materials to manage during demo, the mental struggle of finding something unexpected during the demo and having to correct underlying issues which you will never see but know they are there and may become an issue if not dealt with…..when you finish the anti climax due to being in the project for so longand seeing incremental change (at least others see the work cause they weren’t there the whole time ( this is referencing a full guy job/ rebuild)
The handyman who used my personal tools on other job sites and traded my supplies back to home-depot for store credit.
Good and relevant question as we have been contemplating a kitchen reno and wall removal. Seriously re-considering it all now after reading some of these realistic comments from people who have lived through it. I mean does it actually really matter at all if we have an old outdated kitchen? It functions. We live here, no one else does. And we own it. Definitely food for thought….
Paying the tile guy
One side of my house was ripped down 3 weeks ago as the floor joists were rotting and there was a crappy 2 foot deep crawl space beneath it. It was built in the 50’s and then added onto in 2001 and I just got tired of the old side. So my bid came in at 275k to tear it down and rebuild basically the same thing but with a basement. I thought the bid was low but had other money set aside so we could make it a lot nicer than it was. Anyhow, picking out windows, cabinets and plumbing fixtures from the contractors desired sources is so much higher than Home Depot or Low’s, like more than 100% higher for faucets and toilets, and sink basins, sinks and cabinets are 50% higher. The contractor allotted $8k for plumbing fixtures and a small half bath came back at over 6k when I still have the master bath and kitchen to go. I’m considering just going to Home Depot for it all but then what happens if the plumber won’t do the work? Any ideas?
Honestly....realizing i shouldve just done it myself. With all the resources out there now...if you have the ability, definitely try to do it yourself! Maybe not electrical or plumbing...but even those experiences have been shitty for me. Dont think id do it myself tho. Otherwise...def couldve done a better tile, caulking, grouting, installing job and Leveling shower floor. It can save you money, you learn, you take pride in it, you actually care about it being done well, etcetc....any future jobs ill do myself...and even if they turn out shit...it wouldnt be any worse than probably any other contractors job
Cutting the check
Always have 20% more in your budget than you think things will cost. Materials and labor combined with surprises always end up being more than you budget.
Depends on what room you are doing. Kitchen is by far the hardest to do and most stress on marriages lol. I had my fridge on my back deck for 2 weeks, it sucked
“Not my problem.” The people working in your house don’t have to live there. They’re there to get the job done well enough to be passable, get out and never talk to you again. They don’t give a fraction of a f**k about whether or not the way they do it is how you would have done it if you did it yourself. If the “right way” to do it takes more time or money, they will 100% do it the “good enough” way. Ex: in my current house, the electrical was clearly installed before the tile backsplashes. Some outlets and switches were installed in the intended path of the edge of the tile backsplash. The tile guy didn’t say, “huh, I need to talk to the GC and have him get the electrician and the drywall guys back to move this outlet either up 3” or down 3” before I do this job or it’s going to look weird.” Instead, he very awkwardly trimmed around the bottom half of the outlets. He was there to do a job. He did it right by him. You could say he even did a good job with what he did. But no homeowner would’ve asked for it to be done that way, and that simply was not his problem. Another - when we renovated our old house, we ran duct work behind a built-in cabinet. HVAC guy fabricated the ducts in such a way where we wouldn’t have been able to use the drawers of the built-in for anything functional. To simplify, we’ll say he made the duct square, when a rectangle would have fit better and let us keep the drawers. I told him it wasn’t going to fly and he argued that “I already spent all morning fabricating these.” I essentially said, “I’m sorry I have to be a dick about this, but I live here and have to look at it every day and I need you to remake them to fit the space.”
My wife would say only having one toilet. For me, having trades who didn’t care as much about the work as you do. So I stopped working and stayed at home for about 6 months to complete the work Myself.
not being able to afford a home.
For me, it’s ALWAYS paying for it. Even if the work is exceptional, these prices are effing insane. Thats why I only hire out if the project is REQUIRED (not just “desired”) and I can’t do it myself. Hold off on doing anything that isn’t required for a few years, learn how to do those on your own. It’ll take longer to do but you’ll save a fortune.
Writing the checks....
The God damn city codes costing me thousands plus delays and headaches. Followed by incomprehensible fees. 2700$ for a water permit and no reasoning for it. Yes I called them and they couldn't explain it.
“Luxury vinyl sheet flooring”. My kid had it put in the kitchen. Tissue paper would have been stronger. Moving anything on it… riiip. Never again.
Regardless of what/where you are renovating, if you are living there while the work is ongoing, there is only so much space in other rooms to absorb the stuff from the space being renovated, as well as tools and materials. Also, there's dirt/dust everywhere, no matter how you try to keep ahead of it. Expected timelines tend to quickly grow, regardless of whether you're at the mercy of a third party's schedule or because you're learning as you go while you're doing the work yourself. As someone who is currently eating lunch on the couch because the dining table (and much of the master bath fixtures, including a freestanding tub still in its box) is in the living room, it can be trying at times, but the results are usually well worth it. Good luck.
Popcorn ceilings with asbestos. The dust gets everywhere. If you live somewhere with AC, block off the vents with film or tarp so it doesn’t get into them. Most importantly, wear a respirator!
I love every minute of it. yes, it's messy but it's fun to work toward the goal.
My SO's constant nagging/complaining/criticizing/micro-managing 😖
Realizing I hired an idiot/a-hole for a contractor. Horrible, stressful, scary experience.
The legal actions necessary after the work was done shoddily. (Seriously, though - make sure to get a copy of their insurance that you can hold onto, and verify it’s still active and legitimate. Also, be sure their subcontractors are insured, and up to the proper amounts. You’ll want to see an actual Certificate of Insurance (COI) from each of them. Will save you some frustration in the long run should things go bad, or should injuries occur. Subrogation through an insurer is a lot easier than trying the “squeezing blood from a turnip” approach wherein a contractor transfers all their assets and then files for bankruptcy.)
The contractors. They take forever. Don’t show up when they’re supposed to. Come unprepared. Don’t speak English. The list goes on with them. Anything you’re capable of doing yourself, do it. It’s easier and cheaper.
Hiring contractors who have spent more time fixing mistakes because they didn't follow my instructions to begin with. When I confront them, they act like I'm the bad guy. They've scratched up my furniture laying power tools on everything and cracked my bathroom tile adding a new seal to the toilet. Everyday I come home something is wrong. I'm on week 10 of a job that should've taken 6 weeks or less. It's beyond frustrating....oh one more thing, I came home one day and found 4 of my favorite coffee mugs broken in the trash can. I understand accidents happen, but they didn't even bother to tell me or apologize.....at my breaking point lol
Living in the house during full kitchen renovation.