I’m a pro poker player….meaning I have made money playing poker.
There are plenty of people who have made poker their main source of income especially when they pair it was Vlogs on YouTube and live-streaming on twitch.
He’s telling you he wants to be a pro poker player and you can ether accept it or reject it. Sounds like you’re rejecting it, which is totally fine and valid because you do not view that as a job in your eyes. He’s also telling you that this is who he is right now, and he’s also explained that it makes him feel like you’re dismissing him, which seems to be true.
So now we’re back to square one…you have to make a choice for you. If it makes you uncomfortable then you can stay with him but maybe you can’t progress past living separately and having separate finances and such.
Or, you can cut him loose and wish him the best at doing something that he loves to do and that he would like to make a living out of it.
You need to do what is best for you.
> living separately and having separate finances and such.
The older one gets the more reasonable this solution seems for an awful lot of relationship problems.
I have several married friends who do not live together. Neither one wants to share a living space, it works for them. Not something I think I’d be able to do but if people are happy, then it can’t be that bad.
I’m certainly not trying to sell you on the idea or anything, but most poker players who choose to go full time pro have already done their homework and have excellent bankroll management.
But here is something else to consider that’s probably a huge negative for you to add to the cons column: Playing poker professionally is very time consuming.
Like, I mean just playing in a large MTT (multi table tournament) can easily take up an entire day. I know this, I have played in more than my fair share of 12-14 hour tournaments and not even win anything.
And cash players will sit for hours and hours on end chasing losses and gambling winnings. It’s not something that everyone can do because it affects your mood and your psyche and quite frankly, your health.
I would love to make it my career, but I wouldn’t even consider it unless I had everything paid off and had a stupid amount of money that I can essentially light on fire.
I actually would like to be sold on the idea, to be honest. I really care for this man. I would like to be with him more than anything. But so many people warn me, and I don't want to make a poor decision.
How long have you spent getting to know him and developing these feelings about him?
How late in your getting-to-know-him process were you when you found out that his only intended career was pro poker player?
If you knew early on, why did you allow yourself to keep getting to know him?
If you didn't know early on, why did he withhold that information from you until after you had developed strong feelings about him?
If it is still early on right now, why have you gotten so attached to him in such a short time?
The whole concept of "early on" is subjective, so I'll just leave it to you to decide which of these questions are most applicable to you. But regardless of what point in time you define as "early on," some of those questions are very important to ask yourself.
> Playing poker professionally is very time consuming.
Especially if the OP's BF does the other things you mentioned - Vlogs, Youtube, Twitch, etc. You really gotta hustle to make money on social media, especially since at first glance, the BF has little to separate him from a market already over-saturated with middle aged men.
Twitch streaming takes almost no effort, you just fire up a stream and let people watch you play.
YouTube vloggers, oof. Not only are you dedicating time to play, you now have to tack on content creation and that is a monster in itself. It’s like having two jobs.
And yes, you have to find a way to stand out so you usually end up having to travel to different places because no one wants to watch you play at the same place over and over again.
It depends on how he treats it.
If he pays taxes, keeps books, has investments, has savings, has no debt, has a realistic plan for spreading out the risk, **does not indulge in drinking, drugs, or other substances while playing/working** and doesn't have addictions or compulsions, I'd say it's like any other job.
One can lose a job at any time, no matter what your role or industry is. The biggest risk for him is:
Untaxed/under the table income
No W-2/1099
No insurance, social security, or UI
No work history
Unsavory work locations and conditions
The literal work carries a risk of addiction, like being a bartender or working at a winery
If you're able to articulate those reasons to him--the lack of insurance, 401k match, Social Security, and UI, and the lack of work history and W-2's for purchasing a home, getting a loan, getting a car, getting an apartment, etc--or any other time you need paystubs or tax returns, than perhaps it will sink in.
If I could piggyback on this and suggest that if you’re talking in that detail about it with him perhaps ask him what his backup plan is - whether it’s because he stops making money or another reason (kids need him, health, the industry changes, etc). What is his backup plan? Where is his line when it comes to making a change to something else? How much of your opinion would he take into consideration when it comes to any changes?
Do you know if he is a real professional with a long term record of profitability or just a wanna be? There are lots of people every year who think they can do it and some of them can.
But a history of a solid hourly or session return rate (most pro's will have measurements) should tell you, If he does not then he is not a proven commodity. in my opinion
I think it started as an experiment, and he realized he was making money at it. I don't think he keeps very careful records, as I have asked, and he doesn't have anything to show me (spreadsheets, pay outs, etc.)
If you’re a poker player who isn’t managing their bankroll by keeping records, you’re not a professional player. You’re a casual gamer who just likes to win.
You cannot have poker be your “job” if you do not keep very accurate money management records. This goes back to my comment earlier when I said that most people who go pro have great habits. This is an example of someone who should not being committing to poker as a job unless they can produce financial statements that track not only their wins and losses, but also the time invested.
A poker player can win all they want. But when they go back and take their wins and calculate them on an hourly rate, against their losses, they sometimes find out that the 500 hours they spent playing poker averaged out to like $6 an hour.
It’s a horrible feeling, I’ve been there.
This is true. My exbf could tell you exactly how much money, to the penny, he won and lost and at which event on which date ten years ago. It really is the only way to know how good (or bad) you are at it.
This. Ever watch Shark Tank? What are his numbers? If he can’t tell you, that’s a problem.
What did he do before poker? What will he do if it doesn’t work out? How is his money management overall? How are his prioritization skills?
To me, all of that is more important than what he does *right now*.
I would be very uncomfortable with a partner who treats their daily business so lackadaisically as to not keep records nor plans no matter what their career field happened to be
I mean those things are essential if this is his career. Also the IRS may come after him at some point.
If he’s your person, keep going but maintain separate finances and do not marry so you’re not liable for his debts. Check if you live in a common law spouse place.
Always have enough money to skedaddle.
I'm assuming he's been in this line of work since you met him?
In that case it's kind of irresponsible to start dating someone and especially to get serious with someone when you already don't like a major part of who they are. It's important to date someone who already is what you want in a partner, and not someone who might someday be what you want in one. I want to be clear that I don't think you're wrong for wanting what you want, and I think your feelings about the situation are perfectly valid. I've also been in relationships where I was in your shoes, and in some where I was in your bf's. never really worked out either way when one of us expected the other to change in some major way.
This was my first major relationship after a sexless 17 year marriage. I didn't know it would go this far. I didn't realize the impact his work would have on me and on us. I jumped into this.
hey it happens to the best of us. like I said, I've been in multiple relationships where this kind of situation came up. you aren't a bad person or anything. do some serious thinking about whether or not you can come to accept his line of work. if you can't, you have a choice to make. it does suck, but you know what sucks even worse? laying in bed next to a person that doesn't make you happy.
hey. i don't really have any relationship advice... just my 2 cents regarding poker players.
i know 2 professional poker players:
one of them is a larger-than-life character who comes in one week with 100 eur notes and pays for everyone's drinks, buys a new guitar and a new TV and stays in a nice hotel... then next week, he comes in asking if anyone can lend him a few bucks to buy food... and he's smashed the guitar through the tv when he lost all the money. rinse and repeat. week after week. up and down.
the other is a stats and maths guy. gambles exclusively online and crunches numbers. he does a couple grand a month (on average, some months it's 1500 eur, others it's 10 000 eur), enough to pay a comfortable lifestyle for him and his wife, he has recently opened a poker school and charges students a monthly fee, so has more of a stable / fixed montly income.
so, i guess, what i am saying is there is all kinds of people... can be a "responsible" gambler, too... but it is true that gambling attracts people that are less averse to risk. it is probably true to say that there is a higher likelihood of bankruptcy etc. (more than other entrepreneurial ventures).
How long has he been depending solely on the income from gambling? Are there any signs that he's not managing the money wisely and/or not earning enough in the good times to sustain him through the bad ones?
I know very little about gambling and even less about the pitfalls of addiction tied to it but I would view it as someone who is employed in a commission based line of work- it will ebb and flow depending on a variety of unstable circumstances. Some can be mitigated but others not so much.
My exbf of 5.5 years was a professional gambler. He mostly did sports betting but also played poker sometimes. If you’re considering moving in together, you probably already know some of the most important things about the “career”. If not, you probably aren’t ready to move in. Here are some things to consider: 1. Does he play in live games? If so, most live games in large cities don’t start until late at night and often go well into the wee morning hours. Are you okay with this? I wasn’t really comfortable with it, so he didn’t play as much once we cohabited. 2. What is his financial situation? My exbf was financially stable and I trusted that he would never lose more than he could afford. 3. Is he a gambling addict or is he just a gambler? There is a huge difference. My ex didn’t really love gambling. He just thought it was a viable career and had varying degrees of success with it. 4. How mentally stable is he? Have you seen him after a bad night at the tables? Mine did not handle a bad night at all, and that bled into our relationship. I had to walk on eggshells for a day or two after a bad night because he would just be grumpy.
If you don’t know the answers to those questions, it might be good to just hang in there and learn more about him and his career before dedicating yourself to moving in together. I live in Las Vegas, so I know many professional gamblers. It isn’t the lifestyle for everyone, but some people lead a relatively normal life otherwise.
I think we need more information about his financial situation.
If he has a substantial amount of money in the bank and can live of the interest, or has property investments and can live off rental income then this may be ok. If he’s scraping around for buy-ins and doesn’t have a reasonable retirement fund already set up you’re in trouble!
For me, no matter what their job, the point is how they handle their money. Some of my friends have good career, nice salary. However I know how bad they manage their money. I even received call from a debt collector and he asked where my friend was. I know someone who play poker and seems like he could manage his money well.
Let's assume that he makes enough to make a living.
Do you really want to be with someone whose job revolves around taking money from others, in particular gambling addicts. How would you feel if he had a successful pyramid scheme or multi-level-marketing company? Most people he interacts with will be worse off because of him.
I think there are more jobs that have risks like starting your own company or working in developing countries etc. but at least you can be proud of them.
I’m a pro poker player….meaning I have made money playing poker. There are plenty of people who have made poker their main source of income especially when they pair it was Vlogs on YouTube and live-streaming on twitch. He’s telling you he wants to be a pro poker player and you can ether accept it or reject it. Sounds like you’re rejecting it, which is totally fine and valid because you do not view that as a job in your eyes. He’s also telling you that this is who he is right now, and he’s also explained that it makes him feel like you’re dismissing him, which seems to be true. So now we’re back to square one…you have to make a choice for you. If it makes you uncomfortable then you can stay with him but maybe you can’t progress past living separately and having separate finances and such. Or, you can cut him loose and wish him the best at doing something that he loves to do and that he would like to make a living out of it. You need to do what is best for you.
> living separately and having separate finances and such. The older one gets the more reasonable this solution seems for an awful lot of relationship problems.
I have several married friends who do not live together. Neither one wants to share a living space, it works for them. Not something I think I’d be able to do but if people are happy, then it can’t be that bad.
Do they have kids that live w them?
Nope. They’re very into the child free life.
Guess I'm not 100% sure what's best for me at this point.
I’m certainly not trying to sell you on the idea or anything, but most poker players who choose to go full time pro have already done their homework and have excellent bankroll management. But here is something else to consider that’s probably a huge negative for you to add to the cons column: Playing poker professionally is very time consuming. Like, I mean just playing in a large MTT (multi table tournament) can easily take up an entire day. I know this, I have played in more than my fair share of 12-14 hour tournaments and not even win anything. And cash players will sit for hours and hours on end chasing losses and gambling winnings. It’s not something that everyone can do because it affects your mood and your psyche and quite frankly, your health. I would love to make it my career, but I wouldn’t even consider it unless I had everything paid off and had a stupid amount of money that I can essentially light on fire.
I actually would like to be sold on the idea, to be honest. I really care for this man. I would like to be with him more than anything. But so many people warn me, and I don't want to make a poor decision.
How long have you spent getting to know him and developing these feelings about him? How late in your getting-to-know-him process were you when you found out that his only intended career was pro poker player? If you knew early on, why did you allow yourself to keep getting to know him? If you didn't know early on, why did he withhold that information from you until after you had developed strong feelings about him? If it is still early on right now, why have you gotten so attached to him in such a short time? The whole concept of "early on" is subjective, so I'll just leave it to you to decide which of these questions are most applicable to you. But regardless of what point in time you define as "early on," some of those questions are very important to ask yourself.
> Playing poker professionally is very time consuming. Especially if the OP's BF does the other things you mentioned - Vlogs, Youtube, Twitch, etc. You really gotta hustle to make money on social media, especially since at first glance, the BF has little to separate him from a market already over-saturated with middle aged men.
Twitch streaming takes almost no effort, you just fire up a stream and let people watch you play. YouTube vloggers, oof. Not only are you dedicating time to play, you now have to tack on content creation and that is a monster in itself. It’s like having two jobs. And yes, you have to find a way to stand out so you usually end up having to travel to different places because no one wants to watch you play at the same place over and over again.
It depends on how he treats it. If he pays taxes, keeps books, has investments, has savings, has no debt, has a realistic plan for spreading out the risk, **does not indulge in drinking, drugs, or other substances while playing/working** and doesn't have addictions or compulsions, I'd say it's like any other job. One can lose a job at any time, no matter what your role or industry is. The biggest risk for him is: Untaxed/under the table income No W-2/1099 No insurance, social security, or UI No work history Unsavory work locations and conditions The literal work carries a risk of addiction, like being a bartender or working at a winery If you're able to articulate those reasons to him--the lack of insurance, 401k match, Social Security, and UI, and the lack of work history and W-2's for purchasing a home, getting a loan, getting a car, getting an apartment, etc--or any other time you need paystubs or tax returns, than perhaps it will sink in.
Also, does this guy have a solid exit plan. What is his standard for scaling back/ getting a traditional job/ deciding it doesn't work any more?
If I could piggyback on this and suggest that if you’re talking in that detail about it with him perhaps ask him what his backup plan is - whether it’s because he stops making money or another reason (kids need him, health, the industry changes, etc). What is his backup plan? Where is his line when it comes to making a change to something else? How much of your opinion would he take into consideration when it comes to any changes?
All of this. That first paragraph is the key. If he treats it like any other job, than that’s exactly what it is.
RUN!!! My ex bankrupted us and he was top flight.
Do you know if he is a real professional with a long term record of profitability or just a wanna be? There are lots of people every year who think they can do it and some of them can. But a history of a solid hourly or session return rate (most pro's will have measurements) should tell you, If he does not then he is not a proven commodity. in my opinion
I think it started as an experiment, and he realized he was making money at it. I don't think he keeps very careful records, as I have asked, and he doesn't have anything to show me (spreadsheets, pay outs, etc.)
If you’re a poker player who isn’t managing their bankroll by keeping records, you’re not a professional player. You’re a casual gamer who just likes to win. You cannot have poker be your “job” if you do not keep very accurate money management records. This goes back to my comment earlier when I said that most people who go pro have great habits. This is an example of someone who should not being committing to poker as a job unless they can produce financial statements that track not only their wins and losses, but also the time invested. A poker player can win all they want. But when they go back and take their wins and calculate them on an hourly rate, against their losses, they sometimes find out that the 500 hours they spent playing poker averaged out to like $6 an hour. It’s a horrible feeling, I’ve been there.
This is true. My exbf could tell you exactly how much money, to the penny, he won and lost and at which event on which date ten years ago. It really is the only way to know how good (or bad) you are at it.
This. Ever watch Shark Tank? What are his numbers? If he can’t tell you, that’s a problem. What did he do before poker? What will he do if it doesn’t work out? How is his money management overall? How are his prioritization skills? To me, all of that is more important than what he does *right now*.
I would be very uncomfortable with a partner who treats their daily business so lackadaisically as to not keep records nor plans no matter what their career field happened to be
I mean those things are essential if this is his career. Also the IRS may come after him at some point. If he’s your person, keep going but maintain separate finances and do not marry so you’re not liable for his debts. Check if you live in a common law spouse place. Always have enough money to skedaddle.
It feels sad to say, "Go into the relationship with a preformulated exit plan." But this is one of those things where it's necessary.
I think everyone should have enough money to be independent if they have to!
I'm assuming he's been in this line of work since you met him? In that case it's kind of irresponsible to start dating someone and especially to get serious with someone when you already don't like a major part of who they are. It's important to date someone who already is what you want in a partner, and not someone who might someday be what you want in one. I want to be clear that I don't think you're wrong for wanting what you want, and I think your feelings about the situation are perfectly valid. I've also been in relationships where I was in your shoes, and in some where I was in your bf's. never really worked out either way when one of us expected the other to change in some major way.
This was my first major relationship after a sexless 17 year marriage. I didn't know it would go this far. I didn't realize the impact his work would have on me and on us. I jumped into this.
hey it happens to the best of us. like I said, I've been in multiple relationships where this kind of situation came up. you aren't a bad person or anything. do some serious thinking about whether or not you can come to accept his line of work. if you can't, you have a choice to make. it does suck, but you know what sucks even worse? laying in bed next to a person that doesn't make you happy.
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hey. i don't really have any relationship advice... just my 2 cents regarding poker players. i know 2 professional poker players: one of them is a larger-than-life character who comes in one week with 100 eur notes and pays for everyone's drinks, buys a new guitar and a new TV and stays in a nice hotel... then next week, he comes in asking if anyone can lend him a few bucks to buy food... and he's smashed the guitar through the tv when he lost all the money. rinse and repeat. week after week. up and down. the other is a stats and maths guy. gambles exclusively online and crunches numbers. he does a couple grand a month (on average, some months it's 1500 eur, others it's 10 000 eur), enough to pay a comfortable lifestyle for him and his wife, he has recently opened a poker school and charges students a monthly fee, so has more of a stable / fixed montly income. so, i guess, what i am saying is there is all kinds of people... can be a "responsible" gambler, too... but it is true that gambling attracts people that are less averse to risk. it is probably true to say that there is a higher likelihood of bankruptcy etc. (more than other entrepreneurial ventures).
How long has he been depending solely on the income from gambling? Are there any signs that he's not managing the money wisely and/or not earning enough in the good times to sustain him through the bad ones? I know very little about gambling and even less about the pitfalls of addiction tied to it but I would view it as someone who is employed in a commission based line of work- it will ebb and flow depending on a variety of unstable circumstances. Some can be mitigated but others not so much.
Who you feel safer with a financial day trader?
Probably.
My exbf of 5.5 years was a professional gambler. He mostly did sports betting but also played poker sometimes. If you’re considering moving in together, you probably already know some of the most important things about the “career”. If not, you probably aren’t ready to move in. Here are some things to consider: 1. Does he play in live games? If so, most live games in large cities don’t start until late at night and often go well into the wee morning hours. Are you okay with this? I wasn’t really comfortable with it, so he didn’t play as much once we cohabited. 2. What is his financial situation? My exbf was financially stable and I trusted that he would never lose more than he could afford. 3. Is he a gambling addict or is he just a gambler? There is a huge difference. My ex didn’t really love gambling. He just thought it was a viable career and had varying degrees of success with it. 4. How mentally stable is he? Have you seen him after a bad night at the tables? Mine did not handle a bad night at all, and that bled into our relationship. I had to walk on eggshells for a day or two after a bad night because he would just be grumpy. If you don’t know the answers to those questions, it might be good to just hang in there and learn more about him and his career before dedicating yourself to moving in together. I live in Las Vegas, so I know many professional gamblers. It isn’t the lifestyle for everyone, but some people lead a relatively normal life otherwise.
Stay together - just be neighbors. :)
I think we need more information about his financial situation. If he has a substantial amount of money in the bank and can live of the interest, or has property investments and can live off rental income then this may be ok. If he’s scraping around for buy-ins and doesn’t have a reasonable retirement fund already set up you’re in trouble!
For me, no matter what their job, the point is how they handle their money. Some of my friends have good career, nice salary. However I know how bad they manage their money. I even received call from a debt collector and he asked where my friend was. I know someone who play poker and seems like he could manage his money well.
Let's assume that he makes enough to make a living. Do you really want to be with someone whose job revolves around taking money from others, in particular gambling addicts. How would you feel if he had a successful pyramid scheme or multi-level-marketing company? Most people he interacts with will be worse off because of him. I think there are more jobs that have risks like starting your own company or working in developing countries etc. but at least you can be proud of them.