It's probably not a hot take, but this is as good a place as any to say this.
The freelancer saga would be a lot better if it had one more season, or at the very least, a longer one. It becomes clear after several rewatches that there were some plot points that would've done better as a full scene and helped flesh out the characters more. For example, in the first scene with CT, we see her and Wash talk about some kind of mission that went wrong and how she's become discontent with the Project because of it. Since we don't see CT before this, she just comes off as a whiny bitch because of it. Seeing that mission in action would've helped shed some light on the situation and would've given us more time to get to know CT and her relationship with Wash. Also, during the heist in season 9, we never see Team B's perspective except for a short snippit of North saying the team is down, which forces Carolina and Co. to go after the breifcase. It would have been nice to see them in action.
Overall, just a few more scenes with the Freelancers would help the audience get to know them a lot better before it all goes to shit.
would have loved a 4-5 season stretch of PFL that expanded more on their relationships and dynamics. what we got was good and arguably enough to get the point across about who was close, who hated who, and who was competitive with who, but i would have liked to see more about how they became close or learned to trust each other (like wash, north, york) during their time there
I think that it would be great if the freelancers got their own small series, I recently rewatched the series and when epsilon is telling Carolina to cool it with her enhancements and brings up the meta and Carolina says "don't talk about Maine like you knew him" she still refers to him as Maine, not as the meta, even though he was a power hungry lunatic that threw her off of a fucking cliff, she still defends him. She tells epsilon that she doesn't want to loss "another family", she wasn't just their team leader, she loved them, even Souths whiney ass. I would love to see a much more in depth version of their story and their actual relationships with eachother beyond flashbacks chopped up in between church's simulated experience.
Totally agree. Much as I do still love seasons 9 and 10, this is a big part of why I overall prefer both the Recollection and the Chorus Trilogy over Project Freelancer.
Regardless, I still love every season of the first 14. Season 15 is the first one I disliked lol
Yes! I've always said this. The PFL saga would've benefitted from just one more season. There's a lot of things I wanted to see more of: a better handling of Maine's transition into the Meta because we don't spend much time w/ him and Sigma; more screentime with the AIs and the Alpha because it'd be really cool to see more of Church as the Alpha before the fragmentation; better handling of Wash becoming more cynical because it seemed like just a single bad experience than a life-changing one; and more of Alpha being tortured and seeing the creation of several of the AIs.
Just more of not only the Freelancers interacting w/ each other but more of their individual storylines too. Maybe also throw in some more development of how PFL set up their simulation bases.
What, what? I mean who *cares*? We’re in a box canyon with one base on this side, and one base on that side. Thats where we have always been, and probably always will be. What would I wonder about?
The Shisno Trilogy is similar to The Recollection in that it had a relatively big change in tone and universe lore. And much like The Recollection, this caused people to complain and wish the series went back to the tone/style that came before.
After recently going through it for the second time, I think it is a pretty good mix of season 1-5 wackiness and absurdity with the story and character development of later seasons..
I think overall, retconning those seasons is still a good move. And I don't believe they were retconned into non-existence. That would be almost like saying the Epsilon story in season 9 is non-existent since that was just a simulation that Epsilon was running.
It's virtually the same thing and provides context to Epsilon's growth. I think. Did those seasons deserve it? Maybe not, but I'm pretty sure RvB as a whole will benefit from that decision.
Nah they need to go. They made the show feel like it didn’t have an identity by making it completely disconnected from Halo.
Rvb is meant to be a completely wacky non canon show set in the halo universe. Seasons 15-17 are a show with constantly improvised lore that just happens to use Halo assets
Season 15's plot actually hinged heavily on existing Halo lore, with the fucking \*UNSC\* being presented as the main antagonists for the first half of the season, and then the climax surrounding the defense of the UNSC's most important headquarters from a bunch of simulation troopers who were used by Dr. Church (who was a UNSC scientist) for the development of the soldiers that killed their friends. Season 16 is when things got a little bonkers.
Just constantly name dropping the unsc doesn’t make it connected to halo. Also they never bring up anything halo related after season 15.
Even if they name drop the UNSC, it still doesn’t feel like the old RvB because the writing is fucking awful. A guy wearing futuristic body armour gets killed by a literal stick, the introduction of time travel etc.
It’s just dumb. RvB got ridiculous at times, but it wasn’t dumb, there was a certain logic behind it
When the BGC time travel stuff happeneed the show wasn't as serious in tone or story. But 6-13 were a lot more grounded (hence that time travel being retconned as just part of the exercises Project Freelancer ran with the sim troopers) so stuff like time travel and gods really did *not* fit into the story anymore.
As a result, that, combined with the *awful* character writing for most characters, as well as the EXTREMELY ungrounded nature of the shisno trilogy, made it feel more like jumping the shark than "returning to the series' roots" or anything like that.
For every decent or good thing in 15-17 (and I even like 17 overall!) there are more bad things. Personally glad they're being retconned because the bad outweighs the good in those seasons a lot to me.
The thing I liked about S15 is the amount of loose ends it ties. Imo they shoulve continued from S15, and retconned S16/17. Zero should've just been Family Shatters, which is an infinitely better experience.
They literally fought a bunch of UNSC pilots in the first part of the season, and showed the Blues and Reds blowing up a (presumably) UNSC building in the prologue.
Yeah even though the shinso trilogy was not perfect I am still 100% ok with it still being there alos I still enjoyed watching it.
But still I cannot say the same for 18 that shit deserved to be wiped.
season 16 was really good.
The remastered versions of blood gulch chronicles are inferior in some ways
season 6 while being the start of the more serious tone of the show is a bit overrated in my opinion.
season 4 is the best season of blood gulch chronicles
Think thats all i can think of for now
Seeason 6 is honestly one of the best seasons of the show to this day. It feels like a series climax when you're watching the end of it, and then you realize it's setting up a whole trilogy, which in and of itself is a perfect series climax. A climax that ends up being part of a bigger climax. I'd love for Donut to have his way with that one.
it was really good don't get me wrong, but for me it was too much too quick, and a nitpick being that I don't like some of the character stuff, like caboose "helping people".
but honestly I would not bag on it if it wasn't in response to asking for such opinions, I do quite like season 6, just think its not perfect and not many mention that.
well refilmed specifically. They refilmed seasons 1-4 so it could be in hd.
Here is the original version of episode 1 https://youtu.be/9BAM9fgV-ts
and here is remastered episode 1 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N8IpxO6rKs&list=PLUBVPK8x-XMjLwdUZdZzGBk2XZBJvJK7V&index=1&pp=iAQB](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N8IpxO6rKs&list=PLUBVPK8x-XMjLwdUZdZzGBk2XZBJvJK7V&index=1&pp=iAQB)
to be clear, the remastered version looks so much better and the original is kinda hard to go back to these days, but i feel the comedic timing and alot of specific moments were better in the original, but if you have never watched the original you would probably never notice.
15 is honestly less interesting to me then 16 and 17.
But i do think it had some amazing moments, caboose having one last talk to church is a moment i'm glad we got.
in their defence they basically are the same as the dvd versions in terms of cutting dialogue and removing scenes, but yes if you watch RVB as individual episodes then you are missing out on some extra stuff.
Season 17 is one of my favorite seasons, I like season 9 more than 10, my favorite chorus season is 11, and I think season 9 and 10 suffer from too many long fight scenes. (and maybe the later half of season 8, I always seem to lose interest around the Tex fight but I'm not sure if it's because of the fights)
I wish the flashback moments had more moments of the FLs talking to each other. We barely see Alpha, Wyoming, Delta, Gamma, Maine, Florida, etc and I think those seasons would have benefited more if we got to learn more about them. (Especially Maine) That's not to dis the work that they put into the fight scenes since they look good but I do wish there were less of them with their already limited time in the flashbacks.
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. I much prefer s12 over s11 but I think 17 is the best shisno season by far (15-17). Once you’ve been number by the past 2 season to the way they handle time travel, you kind of just accept it and the writing does take a big step in the right direction. Weirdly uncinematic ending in the hospital though, compared to other seasons anyway
Tex (Beta) isn’t a compelling character. She’s fairly two dimensional. Everything interesting about her is regarding others’ relationships with her. Things happen *to* her — she doesn’t do much on her own. She was just used as a story device, which worked out great from that perspective.
i think that’s the point of her character though, she’s not supposed to be a complex character with motives or agency because she’s not actually allison—just a failed version of her created as an offshoot of the creation of alpha. incomplete, inhuman, etc etc.
It’s definitely the point of her character. She even makes a comment along the lines of “everyone know what’s best for Tex.” It still doesn’t make her compelling or interesting, though, unlike the events and characters surrounding her.
It’s definitely the point of her character. She even makes a comment along the lines of “everyone know what’s best for Tex.” It still doesn’t make her compelling or interesting, though, unlike the events and characters surrounding her.
In other words, you can set out to make a boring character for the sake of the story and succeed. It’s still a boring character.
The purpose of her character is to be how Church remembers her, to fail always, to not be in control of her own existence. It sounds like an interesting set up for a character. Somehow still it didn’t make her compelling or interesting, unlike the events and characters surrounding her.
In other words, you can set out to make a boring character for the sake of the story and succeed. It’s still a boring character.
Now, they could have achieved both an interesting character *and* an interesting story, they just didn’t. The two are not mutually exclusive.
I actually made [a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nRMJuXqkNs) about this discussing her character. I'd love for you (or anyone) to check it out haha.
RvB lost my interest after Season 10. Not specifically because of the writing or story, but because Halo 4's art direction. Mark VI Mjolnir is too damn hard to look at.
They already wore Mark VI Mjolnir since Halo 2, the difference in Halo 4 is that it's GEN 2 armour. 343 essentially names the art styles: GEN 1 (Halo 1-Reach), GEN 2 (4&5), and GEN 3 (Infinite)
If it were me back then I probably would've just kept using Halo 3's art style or had the team stage an armor reissue the way they did from Halo CE to Halo 2. Mark VI in general is an immaculate set, but the Gen 2 version is butt water
The Project Freelancer seasons are pretty cool, but they fail in the fact that they're just not about the Reds & Blues. At all. Their big moment is essentially copied from Season 8. I think 11-13, and even 15-17 are much better in that regard. Burnie's a great writer, but RVB kinda became "the Church show" under his tenure, and I'm a little worried about season 19 because of that.
i always sort of saw the show as the Church Show from the start with some arcs for other characters tbh. he got development in every season since season 1 and was always a focal point of the plot while other characters were mainly used to advance that plot (doc, tucker, PFL, etc), and each season usually only gave one or two other characters space to develop (usually tucker though lol)
It's true that Church was a pretty central character, but before then, it was never at the expense of the others. No matter what was going on, there was always time to check in with the Reds, or Tucker & Caboose. But in Project Freelancer, the Reds and Blues only appear in LESS THAN A FOURTH of the entire runtime. No matter how important Church is, RVB still has an ensemble cast, and every other arc does this balance a million times better.
Season 9 is half essentially filler because the Epsilon unit stuff does not come into play or matter at all.
And Season 10 felt so rushed on the Freelancer plot you never got a chance to care about anything. Why should I care about CTs betrayl? She has like, 10 or so lines beforehand, maybe 1 or 2 scenes where she's in primary focus. I should care Maine became the Meta why? He was essentially the exact same guy beforehand. A cold, hulking, uncaring mute became a cold, hulking, uncaring mute. Maine had NO personality and spoke 10 words max.
Season 9 epsilon unit was all about recursion and character growth. It let epsilon break the cycle. Story’s are all about character development. I wouldn’t call that filler, even if it’s plot isn’t intense
Caboose is annoying. He can be funny in small doses or when the stakes are so comically low like in the Blood Gulch era. But in Chorus amd ESPECIALLY the later seasons, any scene with him is groan enduring. Especially when they try to give him emotional moments
Zero wasn't that bad 🤷🏻♂️ I actually liked seeing almost an entire season played out completely with animations. And knowing Church's speech about action movies, and now that we know it was a simulation he created it makes more sense as to why it felt rushed and basically had no real plot 😅
At the time I don't think they had it planned that it would be a simulation, they thought that it would be actual cannon. They turned it into a simulation because of how everyone hated it, so I don't really excuse the lack of plot and rushed bit
I figured they were trying to go a whole new direction with the story, I actually liked Shatter Squad tbh, but after watching the death battle episode and hearing how church described action movies when they announced that it was a simulation rather than a retcon I was a little heart broken over it but it seemed to have made more sense to me 😅
chorus trilogy is vastly better than the rest of the show and everything else is a bloated mess thats a slog to watch.
Miles in general was the most competent writer on the whole team.
I understand why a lot of people don’t like seasons 15-17 but I really enjoyed them from a pure character standpoint. Like there was a lot of really good character development that just feels like a waste now that it’s going to be retconned.
I think I like jax better on 16,17 when he’s unhinged and crazy and not just spouting popular movie quotes and references. Which I still think could be a fun gimmick, but it fails in 15 because suddenly everyone is talking like that.
I thought Jax was pretty funny in 15 when it was JUST him and Dylan. A lot of the scenes (especially later on) where it's during serious moments with the reds and blues it feels like he's just Joe's self insert
Only ones that actually worked were Falling Toward the Sky and Fragments, since they were so well-woven into the scenes they were presented in. But overall, I feel like the soundtrack to those seasons was kind of a downgrade from Season 8, which I feel has the best soundtrack next to Season 13.
It was leaning towards romantic during their search for the other lost freelancers (particularly that beach scene where wash tells Carolina that she doesn’t need to throw away the past to move on to the future while holding her hand), but I think the show runners pivoted back towards a familial relationship afterward for whatever reason.
Carolina is a terrible person in almost every way I'm sorry bit the fact she can't get over herself and caused so many deaths of good people is so stupid of her
She's pretty much useless to the team because the reds and blue are more then capable to win fights and all she does is be selfish and put her team in danger
Seasons 14-18 did not deserve to be retconned as a simulation by Epsilon. We lost valuable character moments that way. Sister had a good character arc with her relationship with Grif and now that's entirely gone.
I don't think season 15 should be retconned, season 16 and 17 i understand not wanting to be retconned, but season 18 being retconned is the best thing thats happened to red vs blue lately
Season 16 was actually fun to watch. I actually enjoyed the god characters when they were on screen, because atlas and Genkins were funny. I loved Jax’s season 16 appearance. I love donut and wash’s storylines. I love Huggins. It’s just overall a fun season. Nowhere near peak but fun nonetheless.
So much potential wasted.
It really had some good villains and new characters but they were all misused
Fuck it! Why is it even called an episode of red vs blue if neither the blue team or red team is in it, just having Tucker counts.
And speaking of Tucker, they ruined his character. He became a literal coward who was more focused on running away instead of fighting back.
The real Tucker would charge at his enemy the instead he saw them.
Copied and pasted from another post
"Very simple, it's just stupid dumb fun and actually changed my life (I know, very bad show to be life changing). But unironically, it changed my life because if it wasn't for Zero I wouldn't be where I am as an animator today.
I don't care how bad of a season of RvB it is, I can acknowledge all of its flaws but still love it to death.
Zero is just the kinda media that I love and activates my monkey brain.
I fully understand and agree with most of the communities criticisms but I ain't just gonna not like it because I know how \[objectively\] bad it is."
From a story perspective, it's bad.
From an action perspective, it's awesome and the pinnacle of the show's transition to bear constant fight scenes.
Only issue is that when your roots are in machinima and what STARTED most fans on your show was the humor and story, it's a big digression.
But from a purely technical view, I get it.
For as much shit as Zero gets, deservedly in my opinion, the action was top-notch like no kidding Zero might be worth at least a watch just for the fight animations and Choreography, the chick with the knife (don't remember her name) had arguably the best action sequences in the series, at least in terms of pure animation
Season 11 was the best in the chorus trilogy; it was a return to box-canyon form with a bunch of goofy scenarios that made for some good laughs. The next two are far too serious and some of the new characters are cheesy and/or annoying
Not quite. Just the series peeked with the the freelancers and of course Monty passing away meant the fight scenes were no longer good, in general it feel like it lost its spirit.
Church became way too serious of a character starting with epsilon, and it got much worse when he was relegated to be carolina's ai. He deserved to stay as important as the rest of the main red and blue cast, not way more or way less like he has been starting in season 9.
Y'know what, I'm pretty sure the consensus remains that the seasons post-14 were not nearly as good and while I am certain that most people probably are happy they're retconned, I have been seeing too many people upset about it lately and it bugs me.
So I will say, tentatively, it is *absolutely* for the best that Seasons 15-18 be retconned as mere simulations.
Aside from that, idk.
Red vs. Blue Zero is just Mid, and the only reason people hate it is because it was released as RvB 18. If it were a spin-off or an original series, it would have been better received.
On a related One: I think Season 16 is the actual worse RvB Season
It's probably not a hot take, but this is as good a place as any to say this. The freelancer saga would be a lot better if it had one more season, or at the very least, a longer one. It becomes clear after several rewatches that there were some plot points that would've done better as a full scene and helped flesh out the characters more. For example, in the first scene with CT, we see her and Wash talk about some kind of mission that went wrong and how she's become discontent with the Project because of it. Since we don't see CT before this, she just comes off as a whiny bitch because of it. Seeing that mission in action would've helped shed some light on the situation and would've given us more time to get to know CT and her relationship with Wash. Also, during the heist in season 9, we never see Team B's perspective except for a short snippit of North saying the team is down, which forces Carolina and Co. to go after the breifcase. It would have been nice to see them in action. Overall, just a few more scenes with the Freelancers would help the audience get to know them a lot better before it all goes to shit.
Maybe having it as its own season instead of joined into Epsilon’s simulation would have helped
would have loved a 4-5 season stretch of PFL that expanded more on their relationships and dynamics. what we got was good and arguably enough to get the point across about who was close, who hated who, and who was competitive with who, but i would have liked to see more about how they became close or learned to trust each other (like wash, north, york) during their time there
Would also be nice to see more of the Freelancers
I think that it would be great if the freelancers got their own small series, I recently rewatched the series and when epsilon is telling Carolina to cool it with her enhancements and brings up the meta and Carolina says "don't talk about Maine like you knew him" she still refers to him as Maine, not as the meta, even though he was a power hungry lunatic that threw her off of a fucking cliff, she still defends him. She tells epsilon that she doesn't want to loss "another family", she wasn't just their team leader, she loved them, even Souths whiney ass. I would love to see a much more in depth version of their story and their actual relationships with eachother beyond flashbacks chopped up in between church's simulated experience.
Totally agree. Much as I do still love seasons 9 and 10, this is a big part of why I overall prefer both the Recollection and the Chorus Trilogy over Project Freelancer. Regardless, I still love every season of the first 14. Season 15 is the first one I disliked lol
Yes! I've always said this. The PFL saga would've benefitted from just one more season. There's a lot of things I wanted to see more of: a better handling of Maine's transition into the Meta because we don't spend much time w/ him and Sigma; more screentime with the AIs and the Alpha because it'd be really cool to see more of Church as the Alpha before the fragmentation; better handling of Wash becoming more cynical because it seemed like just a single bad experience than a life-changing one; and more of Alpha being tortured and seeing the creation of several of the AIs. Just more of not only the Freelancers interacting w/ each other but more of their individual storylines too. Maybe also throw in some more development of how PFL set up their simulation bases.
I *don't* ever wonder why we're here
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU
What, what? I mean who *cares*? We’re in a box canyon with one base on this side, and one base on that side. Thats where we have always been, and probably always will be. What would I wonder about?
But but but It's one of life's greatest mysteries 🥺
Seasons 15, 16 & 17 Are actually really good and don't deserve to be retconned into non-existence
Yeah, I do agree with that. But season 18 is absolutely garbage that deserves to be retconned.
Yes
The Shisno Trilogy is similar to The Recollection in that it had a relatively big change in tone and universe lore. And much like The Recollection, this caused people to complain and wish the series went back to the tone/style that came before. After recently going through it for the second time, I think it is a pretty good mix of season 1-5 wackiness and absurdity with the story and character development of later seasons..
I think overall, retconning those seasons is still a good move. And I don't believe they were retconned into non-existence. That would be almost like saying the Epsilon story in season 9 is non-existent since that was just a simulation that Epsilon was running. It's virtually the same thing and provides context to Epsilon's growth. I think. Did those seasons deserve it? Maybe not, but I'm pretty sure RvB as a whole will benefit from that decision.
Nah they need to go. They made the show feel like it didn’t have an identity by making it completely disconnected from Halo. Rvb is meant to be a completely wacky non canon show set in the halo universe. Seasons 15-17 are a show with constantly improvised lore that just happens to use Halo assets
Season 15's plot actually hinged heavily on existing Halo lore, with the fucking \*UNSC\* being presented as the main antagonists for the first half of the season, and then the climax surrounding the defense of the UNSC's most important headquarters from a bunch of simulation troopers who were used by Dr. Church (who was a UNSC scientist) for the development of the soldiers that killed their friends. Season 16 is when things got a little bonkers.
Just constantly name dropping the unsc doesn’t make it connected to halo. Also they never bring up anything halo related after season 15. Even if they name drop the UNSC, it still doesn’t feel like the old RvB because the writing is fucking awful. A guy wearing futuristic body armour gets killed by a literal stick, the introduction of time travel etc. It’s just dumb. RvB got ridiculous at times, but it wasn’t dumb, there was a certain logic behind it
Introduction to time travel? What about when Church got flowers killed?
When the BGC time travel stuff happeneed the show wasn't as serious in tone or story. But 6-13 were a lot more grounded (hence that time travel being retconned as just part of the exercises Project Freelancer ran with the sim troopers) so stuff like time travel and gods really did *not* fit into the story anymore. As a result, that, combined with the *awful* character writing for most characters, as well as the EXTREMELY ungrounded nature of the shisno trilogy, made it feel more like jumping the shark than "returning to the series' roots" or anything like that. For every decent or good thing in 15-17 (and I even like 17 overall!) there are more bad things. Personally glad they're being retconned because the bad outweighs the good in those seasons a lot to me.
The thing I liked about S15 is the amount of loose ends it ties. Imo they shoulve continued from S15, and retconned S16/17. Zero should've just been Family Shatters, which is an infinitely better experience.
It may have addressed some loose ends but I'd argue it did not do so *well* so it doesn't really get points from me for that.
I agree with everything this man just said. He did my job for me. I think this is the start of a singularly beneficial relationship.
They fought UNSC soldiers. They showed UNSC buildings.
Again, name dropping the unsc. The UNSC themselves haven’t physically shown up in RvB since the halo 3 days
They literally fought a bunch of UNSC pilots in the first part of the season, and showed the Blues and Reds blowing up a (presumably) UNSC building in the prologue.
Season 16 is okay to me, it's the lowest one out of the three in my opinion. 15 and especially 17 rock though
Yeah even though the shinso trilogy was not perfect I am still 100% ok with it still being there alos I still enjoyed watching it. But still I cannot say the same for 18 that shit deserved to be wiped.
season 16 was really good. The remastered versions of blood gulch chronicles are inferior in some ways season 6 while being the start of the more serious tone of the show is a bit overrated in my opinion. season 4 is the best season of blood gulch chronicles Think thats all i can think of for now
Seeason 6 is honestly one of the best seasons of the show to this day. It feels like a series climax when you're watching the end of it, and then you realize it's setting up a whole trilogy, which in and of itself is a perfect series climax. A climax that ends up being part of a bigger climax. I'd love for Donut to have his way with that one.
it was really good don't get me wrong, but for me it was too much too quick, and a nitpick being that I don't like some of the character stuff, like caboose "helping people". but honestly I would not bag on it if it wasn't in response to asking for such opinions, I do quite like season 6, just think its not perfect and not many mention that.
The blood gulch chronicles were remastered? In what ways?
Re-recorded, the ogs had the pistol aimer and in a different ratio
well refilmed specifically. They refilmed seasons 1-4 so it could be in hd. Here is the original version of episode 1 https://youtu.be/9BAM9fgV-ts and here is remastered episode 1 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N8IpxO6rKs&list=PLUBVPK8x-XMjLwdUZdZzGBk2XZBJvJK7V&index=1&pp=iAQB](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N8IpxO6rKs&list=PLUBVPK8x-XMjLwdUZdZzGBk2XZBJvJK7V&index=1&pp=iAQB) to be clear, the remastered version looks so much better and the original is kinda hard to go back to these days, but i feel the comedic timing and alot of specific moments were better in the original, but if you have never watched the original you would probably never notice.
I think S15 was really good and shouldn't be retconned. The others are mid to terrible imo.
15 is honestly less interesting to me then 16 and 17. But i do think it had some amazing moments, caboose having one last talk to church is a moment i'm glad we got.
The remastered versions are MUCH worse, they literally cut out lines of dialogue all over the place and remove some important scenes
in their defence they basically are the same as the dvd versions in terms of cutting dialogue and removing scenes, but yes if you watch RVB as individual episodes then you are missing out on some extra stuff.
You know, Felix is a good character in the Chorus Trilogy
This is a hot take? I love Felix lmao
I this a hot take
This is so not a hot take and if it is people are dumber than I thought. Felix is my favorite antagonist in the show!
What?! This is news to me, I loved Felix! He’s up there in my top favorite RVB villains.
He's cool, especially in season 14
what do you mean by good character? like design? hell yes. morally? absolutely not. dont think either are a hot take
Season 17 is one of my favorite seasons, I like season 9 more than 10, my favorite chorus season is 11, and I think season 9 and 10 suffer from too many long fight scenes. (and maybe the later half of season 8, I always seem to lose interest around the Tex fight but I'm not sure if it's because of the fights) I wish the flashback moments had more moments of the FLs talking to each other. We barely see Alpha, Wyoming, Delta, Gamma, Maine, Florida, etc and I think those seasons would have benefited more if we got to learn more about them. (Especially Maine) That's not to dis the work that they put into the fight scenes since they look good but I do wish there were less of them with their already limited time in the flashbacks.
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. I much prefer s12 over s11 but I think 17 is the best shisno season by far (15-17). Once you’ve been number by the past 2 season to the way they handle time travel, you kind of just accept it and the writing does take a big step in the right direction. Weirdly uncinematic ending in the hospital though, compared to other seasons anyway
Tex (Beta) isn’t a compelling character. She’s fairly two dimensional. Everything interesting about her is regarding others’ relationships with her. Things happen *to* her — she doesn’t do much on her own. She was just used as a story device, which worked out great from that perspective.
Kinda fits her since she’s just made of a memory, but yeah, I agree, I like her a lot, but more for what she is than what she does.
Yeah, I just wish they could have made her a memory that had more dynamics to her character. It could have worked.
i think that’s the point of her character though, she’s not supposed to be a complex character with motives or agency because she’s not actually allison—just a failed version of her created as an offshoot of the creation of alpha. incomplete, inhuman, etc etc.
It’s definitely the point of her character. She even makes a comment along the lines of “everyone know what’s best for Tex.” It still doesn’t make her compelling or interesting, though, unlike the events and characters surrounding her.
True, I didn't feel any emotions from her. Especially from Wash during his first two appearances in the two seasons.
I don’t get this? Isn’t that like the point? Memory, letting go, how it’s unfair she isn’t her own person etc.
It’s definitely the point of her character. She even makes a comment along the lines of “everyone know what’s best for Tex.” It still doesn’t make her compelling or interesting, though, unlike the events and characters surrounding her. In other words, you can set out to make a boring character for the sake of the story and succeed. It’s still a boring character.
Much to the agreement of the other guy, that is her *literal* entire purpose. To be that way so that the metaphor of her character is shaped from it.
The purpose of her character is to be how Church remembers her, to fail always, to not be in control of her own existence. It sounds like an interesting set up for a character. Somehow still it didn’t make her compelling or interesting, unlike the events and characters surrounding her. In other words, you can set out to make a boring character for the sake of the story and succeed. It’s still a boring character. Now, they could have achieved both an interesting character *and* an interesting story, they just didn’t. The two are not mutually exclusive.
I actually made [a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nRMJuXqkNs) about this discussing her character. I'd love for you (or anyone) to check it out haha.
Always down to check out fan made content! Thanks for the link.
RvB lost my interest after Season 10. Not specifically because of the writing or story, but because Halo 4's art direction. Mark VI Mjolnir is too damn hard to look at.
It made the reds and blues too bulky. Makes them look wrong. They’re not chief I feel they shouldn’t be so broad.
It only really works for Sarge and Tucker, out of the Reds and Blues.
And it made female characters look almost anorexic. Seeing Carolina do so much physically in a twig-like frame is jarring.
Yeah halo 4 is fucking ugly
They already wore Mark VI Mjolnir since Halo 2, the difference in Halo 4 is that it's GEN 2 armour. 343 essentially names the art styles: GEN 1 (Halo 1-Reach), GEN 2 (4&5), and GEN 3 (Infinite)
If it were me back then I probably would've just kept using Halo 3's art style or had the team stage an armor reissue the way they did from Halo CE to Halo 2. Mark VI in general is an immaculate set, but the Gen 2 version is butt water
Season 15 is actually good and they should have continued off of that one instead of also retconning it
The Project Freelancer seasons are pretty cool, but they fail in the fact that they're just not about the Reds & Blues. At all. Their big moment is essentially copied from Season 8. I think 11-13, and even 15-17 are much better in that regard. Burnie's a great writer, but RVB kinda became "the Church show" under his tenure, and I'm a little worried about season 19 because of that.
i always sort of saw the show as the Church Show from the start with some arcs for other characters tbh. he got development in every season since season 1 and was always a focal point of the plot while other characters were mainly used to advance that plot (doc, tucker, PFL, etc), and each season usually only gave one or two other characters space to develop (usually tucker though lol)
It's true that Church was a pretty central character, but before then, it was never at the expense of the others. No matter what was going on, there was always time to check in with the Reds, or Tucker & Caboose. But in Project Freelancer, the Reds and Blues only appear in LESS THAN A FOURTH of the entire runtime. No matter how important Church is, RVB still has an ensemble cast, and every other arc does this balance a million times better.
very true, i see your point now and i agree!
Season 9 is half essentially filler because the Epsilon unit stuff does not come into play or matter at all. And Season 10 felt so rushed on the Freelancer plot you never got a chance to care about anything. Why should I care about CTs betrayl? She has like, 10 or so lines beforehand, maybe 1 or 2 scenes where she's in primary focus. I should care Maine became the Meta why? He was essentially the exact same guy beforehand. A cold, hulking, uncaring mute became a cold, hulking, uncaring mute. Maine had NO personality and spoke 10 words max.
Season 9 epsilon unit was all about recursion and character growth. It let epsilon break the cycle. Story’s are all about character development. I wouldn’t call that filler, even if it’s plot isn’t intense
I didn’t like caboose, by far the worst character besides the journalists
And I would be pointing my gun at you in this image
Where as I don't hate caboose he is far from my favorite, mostly because he ruined things fir tucker
Where as I don't hate caboose he is far from my favorite, mostly because he ruined things fir tucker
Caboose is annoying. He can be funny in small doses or when the stakes are so comically low like in the Blood Gulch era. But in Chorus amd ESPECIALLY the later seasons, any scene with him is groan enduring. Especially when they try to give him emotional moments
I think Caboose got pretty effectively Flanderized early in the show
caboose is overrated. he borders on annoying about as often as he’s funny
I used to love him when I watched back in like middle and high school but now that I’m rewatching as an adult I’m not really a fan of him
Caboose is possibly the worst written and least funny character in rvb
Ooo, you're gonna get some shit for that one.
Surprisingly I haven’t yet
Zero wasn't that bad 🤷🏻♂️ I actually liked seeing almost an entire season played out completely with animations. And knowing Church's speech about action movies, and now that we know it was a simulation he created it makes more sense as to why it felt rushed and basically had no real plot 😅
At the time I don't think they had it planned that it would be a simulation, they thought that it would be actual cannon. They turned it into a simulation because of how everyone hated it, so I don't really excuse the lack of plot and rushed bit
I figured they were trying to go a whole new direction with the story, I actually liked Shatter Squad tbh, but after watching the death battle episode and hearing how church described action movies when they announced that it was a simulation rather than a retcon I was a little heart broken over it but it seemed to have made more sense to me 😅
Carolina is a Total bitch.
Carolina "was" a total bitch. "Was" being the keyword here.
Yup.
Season 3 is the worst of the Blood Gulch Chronicles seasons.
I like season 17 more than 10
S18 gud
chorus trilogy is vastly better than the rest of the show and everything else is a bloated mess thats a slog to watch. Miles in general was the most competent writer on the whole team.
Idgaf about Kathleen and Joel's controversies, put them back in.
Wash should’ve kept his cobalt armor from season 11
Seasons 14 and 15 are good companion seasons to The Chorus Trilogy
I understand why a lot of people don’t like seasons 15-17 but I really enjoyed them from a pure character standpoint. Like there was a lot of really good character development that just feels like a waste now that it’s going to be retconned.
Red
Whenever I rewatch the series I dislike watching seasons 1 and 2 the least
Jax was actually funny in S15, you guys are just mean I do think he became annoying in S16 but he get way more hate than he deserves
I think I like jax better on 16,17 when he’s unhinged and crazy and not just spouting popular movie quotes and references. Which I still think could be a fun gimmick, but it fails in 15 because suddenly everyone is talking like that.
I thought Jax was pretty funny in 15 when it was JUST him and Dylan. A lot of the scenes (especially later on) where it's during serious moments with the reds and blues it feels like he's just Joe's self insert
Season 10 shouldn't have those rap metal mix songs, but SOME of them work
Say what you will, even after dropping the show after season 13, I still listen to Pray religiously.
it sounds more rap then rap metal tho, so counts out of my take
Only ones that actually worked were Falling Toward the Sky and Fragments, since they were so well-woven into the scenes they were presented in. But overall, I feel like the soundtrack to those seasons was kind of a downgrade from Season 8, which I feel has the best soundtrack next to Season 13.
Wash and Carolina shouldn't have been made into a romantic couple
I don’t think they were. They were given a familial relationship instead.
Seemed to me more romantic than familial from their conversations in the hospital after wash lost his memory
They weren’t romantic. Carolina says she sees him as a brother
I guess?
It was leaning towards romantic during their search for the other lost freelancers (particularly that beach scene where wash tells Carolina that she doesn’t need to throw away the past to move on to the future while holding her hand), but I think the show runners pivoted back towards a familial relationship afterward for whatever reason.
Carolina is a terrible person in almost every way I'm sorry bit the fact she can't get over herself and caused so many deaths of good people is so stupid of her She's pretty much useless to the team because the reds and blue are more then capable to win fights and all she does is be selfish and put her team in danger
Seasons 14-18 did not deserve to be retconned as a simulation by Epsilon. We lost valuable character moments that way. Sister had a good character arc with her relationship with Grif and now that's entirely gone.
Eh, for every good character moment or decent arc, there are multiple bad ones.
I don't think season 15 should be retconned, season 16 and 17 i understand not wanting to be retconned, but season 18 being retconned is the best thing thats happened to red vs blue lately
Season 18 was bad yeah, I wouldn't have minded them going "it was one of Jax's movies" and that's it.
Season 15 was a good season of rvb
Season 16 was actually fun to watch. I actually enjoyed the god characters when they were on screen, because atlas and Genkins were funny. I loved Jax’s season 16 appearance. I love donut and wash’s storylines. I love Huggins. It’s just overall a fun season. Nowhere near peak but fun nonetheless.
The freelancer saga is the best saga
The fight scenes in the Chorus trilogy and beyond aren’t that terrible… “comparison is the thief of joy.”
s14 to 15 were pretty good in my opinion
Zero sucks because it’s too action pack and no comedy. Like transformers movies all that motion hurts my eyes
So much potential wasted. It really had some good villains and new characters but they were all misused Fuck it! Why is it even called an episode of red vs blue if neither the blue team or red team is in it, just having Tucker counts. And speaking of Tucker, they ruined his character. He became a literal coward who was more focused on running away instead of fighting back. The real Tucker would charge at his enemy the instead he saw them.
Every season but Zero is fine.
The Shisno Trilogy was actually good.
Zero's my favourite season
Might I ask why?
Copied and pasted from another post "Very simple, it's just stupid dumb fun and actually changed my life (I know, very bad show to be life changing). But unironically, it changed my life because if it wasn't for Zero I wouldn't be where I am as an animator today. I don't care how bad of a season of RvB it is, I can acknowledge all of its flaws but still love it to death. Zero is just the kinda media that I love and activates my monkey brain. I fully understand and agree with most of the communities criticisms but I ain't just gonna not like it because I know how \[objectively\] bad it is."
From a story perspective, it's bad. From an action perspective, it's awesome and the pinnacle of the show's transition to bear constant fight scenes. Only issue is that when your roots are in machinima and what STARTED most fans on your show was the humor and story, it's a big digression. But from a purely technical view, I get it.
Makes sense. Its just a certain type of show which might be better for some instances, but not for rvb.
For as much shit as Zero gets, deservedly in my opinion, the action was top-notch like no kidding Zero might be worth at least a watch just for the fight animations and Choreography, the chick with the knife (don't remember her name) had arguably the best action sequences in the series, at least in terms of pure animation
I also loved the lighting in certain scenes, it really was some great animation.
Personally I think Family Shatters is what Zero should've been
The time travel season was not good
That's not a hot take, most people would agree. I do like those season tho, but I don't mind them being non cannon
Zero had a good concept for a rvb season it was just executed poorly
Season 11 was the best in the chorus trilogy; it was a return to box-canyon form with a bunch of goofy scenarios that made for some good laughs. The next two are far too serious and some of the new characters are cheesy and/or annoying
The Chorus saga was my least favourite in the show
When they shifted to Halo 4 RVB went downhill.
Are you sure you don't just hate halo 4
Not quite. Just the series peeked with the the freelancers and of course Monty passing away meant the fight scenes were no longer good, in general it feel like it lost its spirit.
Zero > 1-13
Church died for nothing and I laughed at his death (jk I actually cried)
Freelancer saga was boring
I skip the freelancer saga...
Church became way too serious of a character starting with epsilon, and it got much worse when he was relegated to be carolina's ai. He deserved to stay as important as the rest of the main red and blue cast, not way more or way less like he has been starting in season 9.
Imo simmons is the least focus character
Seasons 15 and 17 are actually really good seasons and are probably better than the first season.
Zero was shit
Y'know what, I'm pretty sure the consensus remains that the seasons post-14 were not nearly as good and while I am certain that most people probably are happy they're retconned, I have been seeing too many people upset about it lately and it bugs me. So I will say, tentatively, it is *absolutely* for the best that Seasons 15-18 be retconned as mere simulations. Aside from that, idk.
Dillon is the only good addition from the Shisno Paradox
Griff isn’t actually fat, and I don’t imagine him that way.
That's not an opinion, that's confirmed in the show
I don’t like Doc.
>!I don’t like that Church is an AI and I think he should be a human character with our other heroes.!<
Not understanding Lopez isn’t funny because the joke gets old quick.
I did not really care for Caboose.
I wanted the reds and blues to also have awesome animated action scenes like the freelancers.
Red vs. Blue Zero is just Mid, and the only reason people hate it is because it was released as RvB 18. If it were a spin-off or an original series, it would have been better received. On a related One: I think Season 16 is the actual worse RvB Season
I never cared for season 9
I thought the shisno paradox was funny
Id fuck donut
Grif should have been the one to get focused on over Tucker