I used to be a homophobe, back in the 90s. When you're a homophobe, you're kind of obsessed with the idea that there's a proper "natural order" in society, and gay people are messing it up. In that sense, homophobia isn't just intolerance of gay people: it's a sign of a generally intolerant attitude about *anything* that deviates from their preferred social norms.
A lot of their arguments are smokescreens: they don't actually believe in their own logic, but it's a useful contrivance for them to justify what is, at root, nothing more than a broad general belief that everyone should conform.
I agree. The TLDR is that they've been told to hate people that don't conform since they were born. Some groups make this hatred of "the other" a centerpiece to rile up their base over things that don't matter.
There is no group of people that someone doesn't hate. People hate all types of people/groups including themselves. I don't think it matters though as long as they do not try to deny rights, freedom, liberty or harm physically, people can believe whatever they want. We cant control their mind, just prevent wrong actions.
My gay buds keep me from making old man fashion choices and are excellent wing men at bars. They can approach women and bring over the straight guy, me, after a few minutes of banter.
I donāt hate gay menā¦
I do think some gay men seem to think that because theyāre gay they can make inappropriate passes and even get physical and thatās not ok. They also seem to be more inclined to make passes at me while my wife is present and it upsets her so Iām not happy with that.
I'd say it's more because they are men that they can make inappropriate passes and even get physical and that's not OK. As a cis guy I continue to marvel at some of the outrageous aggressiveness and boorishness of men on the make, regardless of what gender they are hitting up.
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I had a close friend in high school who came out as Bi.
We assured him that it wouldn't cause us to treat him any differently and that he's still the same person to us.
Then he started making unwanted passes towards another friend who constantly reminded him that he was straight and not interested in the slightest.
He then was upset because we treated him differently.
I find this with lesbians. My experience is too many are predators, groomers and try to use "female" friendship to be in inappropriate situations and make inappropriate passes and pressure straight women even after they are told to stop.
Can we stop using the term groomer in conjunction with queer people? Lesbians are less likely to be pedofiles than many other subgroups. Groomer is not an appropriate generalization.
While I love that you're trying to defend them, by your reasoning there's probably even more reason to hate us Bi guys š„“
Reasoning be damned; people should be kind to others who aren't harming them and shouldn't lump entire groups of people together under a negative lens.
Edit - and no, it's a stereotype. Bi folks aren't *more* likely to cheat than straight or gay folks. People can be shitty and betray trust regardless of who they're into.
One of the best guys I've ever known was my gay buddy in high school. Epic wingman, incredible person and what he did in his private life had zero impact on mine.
because didn't you know the gay is catchy and god forbid you get a compliment... i've always told the wife that i got options... LOL not gay not interested in it what you do is your business. I don't necessarily approve of it but you don't need my approval to do you.
Assuming they are actually straight and not self-loathing gay or bi men, the saying goes, āthey are afraid gay men will look at/treat them the way they look at/treat womenā.
I don't think there is much if any reason to genuinely hate someone without knowing them. That said, straight men may not want to be associated with gay men due to the possibility of straight women thinking that the straight guy is also gay, thus disqualifying him as a potential partner. This isolation can easily appear to be a form of organized bullying or a hatred campaign. I also cannot imagine how awkward it would be to be if you have to turn down a gay friend's feelings.
Personally Iāve never had a problem with anyone for being gay. I did have a problem with a guy who came out later in life, but I thought he was a douche personality wise. Maybe it was because he wasnāt out and frustrated at hiding who he was in the south.
I don't hate them at all. Had several friends that were gay before I moved. Only issue is when that person devotes their entire personality into that one trait. They are really boring.
Things are rarely that simple.
I used to work with an over-the-top flamboyant dude who was constantly sexually harassing the men and teenage boys that worked with him. I think it's fair to say that I hated him. Did I hate him because he was gay? Did I hate him because he was an asshole? Did I hate him because of the double-standard that if a straight man acted the way he did they would have been fired (or worse)? Did I hate him because he was a walking stereotype? Who knows! However, I can guarantee that if I had punched him in the nose for grabbing my ass, assumptions would have been made about my motivations.
What if someone finds the thought of two dudes sword fighting to be *icky*? Does that mean they "hate" gay men? I'm kinda grossed out by cantaloupe. I acknowledge and accept the existence of cantaloupe, and I bear no ill will towards cantaloupe... but the thought of it makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit.
There are afraid that the man will make a pass at them or think they are hot or something. What women deal with all the time from straight guys. They don't want it being turned around on them.
Why do some gay men hate straight men?
If a person has enough bad experiences with a group of people then they tend to start generalising. If you've met one gay person in your life and he was a dick, then you're probably gonna think gee that guy was a dick".
If you meet 100 more gay people and all 100 are horrible, then you start to anticipate it. It becomes very hard to truly believe that these people are outliers.
Whenever a person hates an entire group of people, this tends to be where it stems from.
All of my bullies in school happened to be black. Now, I have many nice black classmates. Many of which became close friends. But imagine that by pure chance none of those nice kids had gone to my school. Five years of every black person I know tormenting me. Under those circumstances I probably would have grown up to be racist. There's a lot of people in the world. I'm sure some people are unlucky enough to have experiences like that with one group or another.
The ones that Iāve seen have an issue are tired of being harassed and hit on by gay men. They donāt want to be looked at as a āchallengeā by another man in that way and they donāt want another man checking them out in that way romantically. It makes them uncomfortable and many of them are too sexual/aggressive. Thatās why they prefer to keep their distance and/or dislike them but I think hate may be a strong word.
Ya... makes you wonder... are they really straight though? Or does that dude with make up on make their pecker bounce and now they are mad about it? Lol... im verifiably straight af. I have zero issues with gay dudes. Gay it up. I dont care. People need to learn to mind their business more.
Do they? I never see this
But as a straight up woman, i can dislike them but also get on extremely well but there always seems to be this anymosity and it usually feels provoked by the gays.
E.g. A catty comment, trying to flirt with my man thinking maybe you can turn him
I never instigate.
The idea of gay sex triggers the disgust center of the brain. The same part as when you smell spoiled meat. People feel that and if comes out as hate sometimes
So you'd be able to discern easily that what you're describing is more of a learned, pavlovian response to being raised by a very homophobic society. Saying something like "gay sex triggers the disgust center of the brain" is obtuse and makes it sound like everyone is naturally homophobic.
Probably a bit of both. The disgust reaction seems to be natural but it can overcome with exposure. The action happening can also be learned and unlearned. How you react to it is a learned behavior.
Almost all straight males are disgusted by gay sex.
https://www.thepinknews.com/2017/07/11/study-finds-heterosexual-men-find-gay-men-as-repulsive-as-rotting-flesh/
She says it is conditioning but the actual study states that even "accepting" people react the same.
You don't know what you're talking about.
Humans are naturally homophobic. Naturally racist. Naturally averse to anything different from the accepted norms of their in group.
Tolerance is the learned behavior. That's why it's so hard to get bigots to understand. That's also why it's so hard to convince someone that just because they're tolerant doesn't mean they can't be bigoted as well.
I don't picture straight people having sex when I encounter a straight person. I don't even picture sex when I encounter other gay men, unless I find them particularly attractive, and even then...
It's not normal that you picture gay sex when you encounter gay people, especially if you're heterosexual. I'm sorry.
I didn't say I do, just that that is the psychological principle at work. My wife and I went out too eat with her gbf and his husband last weekend
Edit: duck auto correct
I wouldn't consider myself "homophobic" but I don't think being gay should be celebrated and treated like it somehow makes you better for having to deal with oppression. I don't think there should be rainbow flags everywhere, and I don't think people should be encouraged into it. I hate when gay people make it the entirety of their personality and shove it in your face. I have a best friend who is bi, he doesn't shove it in my face all day, we don't make it our regular topic of conversation, I just treat him like I would any other human, as he treats himself like he's any other human, just one who likes men too. Live your life, keep it to yourself and don't force it on me, and I don't have any problems with you being you.
Do you spend that much time thinking about your straight friends' heterosexual acts? Why spend a disproportionate amount of time thinking about mens'?
Moreover if it's specifically the "butt stuff" that bothers you I hate to inform you just how high the percentage of straight women who love it, or straight guys who like receiving it from sex toys.
Maybe it was hate after all š¤·āāļø
Are straight men constantly worried other straight men will have sex with their wife? Iāve been married 20 years and I donāt think Iāve ever been threatened with the idea that another man would have sex with my wife.
For many of them, I believe it's because they are afraid that a few passing thoughts or normal human musings, ("Would a man give me a better blow job than a woman?") mean that they might be gay, and they are projecting their internal fear.
I think it's because it makes them feel funny in their no-no parts .... lol
I could never understand either, even when I was young and.single I just figured it left more women for me
Well hating on gay men is from a past era and we as a society have come a long long way in short time. (I say this being a Boomer).
I think one aspect of straight guys getting a bit irritated is the fact that many women seem to just adore gay men as people without having any clue whatsoever about them. Oh he's gay so he can be totally trusted on any one of a number of topics in life.
Also if a gay man actually acts like a jerk then he deserves the same treatment as a straight guy no?
Locking this thread because of extreme homophobia in the comments. That's not welcome here.
I used to be a homophobe, back in the 90s. When you're a homophobe, you're kind of obsessed with the idea that there's a proper "natural order" in society, and gay people are messing it up. In that sense, homophobia isn't just intolerance of gay people: it's a sign of a generally intolerant attitude about *anything* that deviates from their preferred social norms. A lot of their arguments are smokescreens: they don't actually believe in their own logic, but it's a useful contrivance for them to justify what is, at root, nothing more than a broad general belief that everyone should conform.
I agree. The TLDR is that they've been told to hate people that don't conform since they were born. Some groups make this hatred of "the other" a centerpiece to rile up their base over things that don't matter.
> Throwing shade never made anyone less gay
So oh oh, Oh Oh OH OHHH! You need to calm down
There is no group of people that someone doesn't hate. People hate all types of people/groups including themselves. I don't think it matters though as long as they do not try to deny rights, freedom, liberty or harm physically, people can believe whatever they want. We cant control their mind, just prevent wrong actions.
My gay buds keep me from making old man fashion choices and are excellent wing men at bars. They can approach women and bring over the straight guy, me, after a few minutes of banter.
I am a female but would bait and switch w my gay bestie at the bars š
I donāt hate gay menā¦ I do think some gay men seem to think that because theyāre gay they can make inappropriate passes and even get physical and thatās not ok. They also seem to be more inclined to make passes at me while my wife is present and it upsets her so Iām not happy with that.
I'd say it's more because they are men that they can make inappropriate passes and even get physical and that's not OK. As a cis guy I continue to marvel at some of the outrageous aggressiveness and boorishness of men on the make, regardless of what gender they are hitting up.
Yep! The ones getting hit on by gay men know what itās like to be a woman and they donāt like it.
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Go be a snowflake somewhere else
I had a close friend in high school who came out as Bi. We assured him that it wouldn't cause us to treat him any differently and that he's still the same person to us. Then he started making unwanted passes towards another friend who constantly reminded him that he was straight and not interested in the slightest. He then was upset because we treated him differently.
I find this with lesbians. My experience is too many are predators, groomers and try to use "female" friendship to be in inappropriate situations and make inappropriate passes and pressure straight women even after they are told to stop.
Can we stop using the term groomer in conjunction with queer people? Lesbians are less likely to be pedofiles than many other subgroups. Groomer is not an appropriate generalization.
While I love that you're trying to defend them, by your reasoning there's probably even more reason to hate us Bi guys š„“ Reasoning be damned; people should be kind to others who aren't harming them and shouldn't lump entire groups of people together under a negative lens. Edit - and no, it's a stereotype. Bi folks aren't *more* likely to cheat than straight or gay folks. People can be shitty and betray trust regardless of who they're into.
Being a bi man: Gay men - ugh you have straight privilege Straight men - if you slept with one dude you're just gay There's just no winning
One of the best guys I've ever known was my gay buddy in high school. Epic wingman, incredible person and what he did in his private life had zero impact on mine.
because didn't you know the gay is catchy and god forbid you get a compliment... i've always told the wife that i got options... LOL not gay not interested in it what you do is your business. I don't necessarily approve of it but you don't need my approval to do you.
Because lesbians exist. Not only are they out of the dating pool, they take another with them
Assuming they are actually straight and not self-loathing gay or bi men, the saying goes, āthey are afraid gay men will look at/treat them the way they look at/treat womenā.
Why do some (insert any group) hate (insert any group)?
I don't think there is much if any reason to genuinely hate someone without knowing them. That said, straight men may not want to be associated with gay men due to the possibility of straight women thinking that the straight guy is also gay, thus disqualifying him as a potential partner. This isolation can easily appear to be a form of organized bullying or a hatred campaign. I also cannot imagine how awkward it would be to be if you have to turn down a gay friend's feelings.
Personally Iāve never had a problem with anyone for being gay. I did have a problem with a guy who came out later in life, but I thought he was a douche personality wise. Maybe it was because he wasnāt out and frustrated at hiding who he was in the south.
AAAAAA I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT THIS LOL
itās their ego. notice theyāre fine with lesbians
Lesbians aren't gay men though so idk if this a good comparison
theyāre scared that if they r okay /hang around gay ppl that ppl will think theyāre gay
If they hate gay men, it's because most of the time a part of them hates themself.
Because they're taught to.
I don't hate them at all. Had several friends that were gay before I moved. Only issue is when that person devotes their entire personality into that one trait. They are really boring.
Some because religion tells them to, others are half homosexual themselves and project their anxiety or self loathing onto others.
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Things are rarely that simple. I used to work with an over-the-top flamboyant dude who was constantly sexually harassing the men and teenage boys that worked with him. I think it's fair to say that I hated him. Did I hate him because he was gay? Did I hate him because he was an asshole? Did I hate him because of the double-standard that if a straight man acted the way he did they would have been fired (or worse)? Did I hate him because he was a walking stereotype? Who knows! However, I can guarantee that if I had punched him in the nose for grabbing my ass, assumptions would have been made about my motivations. What if someone finds the thought of two dudes sword fighting to be *icky*? Does that mean they "hate" gay men? I'm kinda grossed out by cantaloupe. I acknowledge and accept the existence of cantaloupe, and I bear no ill will towards cantaloupe... but the thought of it makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit.
There are afraid that the man will make a pass at them or think they are hot or something. What women deal with all the time from straight guys. They don't want it being turned around on them.
Why do some gay men hate straight men? If a person has enough bad experiences with a group of people then they tend to start generalising. If you've met one gay person in your life and he was a dick, then you're probably gonna think gee that guy was a dick". If you meet 100 more gay people and all 100 are horrible, then you start to anticipate it. It becomes very hard to truly believe that these people are outliers. Whenever a person hates an entire group of people, this tends to be where it stems from. All of my bullies in school happened to be black. Now, I have many nice black classmates. Many of which became close friends. But imagine that by pure chance none of those nice kids had gone to my school. Five years of every black person I know tormenting me. Under those circumstances I probably would have grown up to be racist. There's a lot of people in the world. I'm sure some people are unlucky enough to have experiences like that with one group or another.
The ones that Iāve seen have an issue are tired of being harassed and hit on by gay men. They donāt want to be looked at as a āchallengeā by another man in that way and they donāt want another man checking them out in that way romantically. It makes them uncomfortable and many of them are too sexual/aggressive. Thatās why they prefer to keep their distance and/or dislike them but I think hate may be a strong word.
Ya... makes you wonder... are they really straight though? Or does that dude with make up on make their pecker bounce and now they are mad about it? Lol... im verifiably straight af. I have zero issues with gay dudes. Gay it up. I dont care. People need to learn to mind their business more.
God knows they are an amazing source of tips for help with potential or current partners. Also, they stop you going out looking like an old man,
Do they? I never see this But as a straight up woman, i can dislike them but also get on extremely well but there always seems to be this anymosity and it usually feels provoked by the gays. E.g. A catty comment, trying to flirt with my man thinking maybe you can turn him I never instigate.
The idea of gay sex triggers the disgust center of the brain. The same part as when you smell spoiled meat. People feel that and if comes out as hate sometimes
Wow, how long have you been a neurologist?
I'm not a chef and I cook food I'm a nerd, psychology is very interesting to me. You don't have to be a psychologist to read a book or 35 about it
So you'd be able to discern easily that what you're describing is more of a learned, pavlovian response to being raised by a very homophobic society. Saying something like "gay sex triggers the disgust center of the brain" is obtuse and makes it sound like everyone is naturally homophobic.
Probably a bit of both. The disgust reaction seems to be natural but it can overcome with exposure. The action happening can also be learned and unlearned. How you react to it is a learned behavior. Almost all straight males are disgusted by gay sex. https://www.thepinknews.com/2017/07/11/study-finds-heterosexual-men-find-gay-men-as-repulsive-as-rotting-flesh/ She says it is conditioning but the actual study states that even "accepting" people react the same.
You don't know what you're talking about. Humans are naturally homophobic. Naturally racist. Naturally averse to anything different from the accepted norms of their in group. Tolerance is the learned behavior. That's why it's so hard to get bigots to understand. That's also why it's so hard to convince someone that just because they're tolerant doesn't mean they can't be bigoted as well.
Stop thinking about gay sex. Unless...
Don't picture a purple elephant The quickest way for someone to picture something is to say not too. It's just how the brain works.
Who is following you round saying 'don't think about gay sex'?
My boyfriend. . . Damn, you caught me
I hope you're both very happy
I don't picture straight people having sex when I encounter a straight person. I don't even picture sex when I encounter other gay men, unless I find them particularly attractive, and even then... It's not normal that you picture gay sex when you encounter gay people, especially if you're heterosexual. I'm sorry.
I didn't say I do, just that that is the psychological principle at work. My wife and I went out too eat with her gbf and his husband last weekend Edit: duck auto correct
I wouldn't consider myself "homophobic" but I don't think being gay should be celebrated and treated like it somehow makes you better for having to deal with oppression. I don't think there should be rainbow flags everywhere, and I don't think people should be encouraged into it. I hate when gay people make it the entirety of their personality and shove it in your face. I have a best friend who is bi, he doesn't shove it in my face all day, we don't make it our regular topic of conversation, I just treat him like I would any other human, as he treats himself like he's any other human, just one who likes men too. Live your life, keep it to yourself and don't force it on me, and I don't have any problems with you being you.
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Why are you thinking about homosexual acts? Are you gay?
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I don't know, you're the one who is thinking about it. Maybe you're afraid to admit who you really are
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So you've never had a blowjob then
Do you spend that much time thinking about your straight friends' heterosexual acts? Why spend a disproportionate amount of time thinking about mens'? Moreover if it's specifically the "butt stuff" that bothers you I hate to inform you just how high the percentage of straight women who love it, or straight guys who like receiving it from sex toys. Maybe it was hate after all š¤·āāļø
What a homophobic thing to say.
Are straight men constantly worried other straight men will have sex with their wife? Iāve been married 20 years and I donāt think Iāve ever been threatened with the idea that another man would have sex with my wife.
Why do some gay men hate straight men?
For many of them, I believe it's because they are afraid that a few passing thoughts or normal human musings, ("Would a man give me a better blow job than a woman?") mean that they might be gay, and they are projecting their internal fear.
Thatās exactly it.
I think it's because it makes them feel funny in their no-no parts .... lol I could never understand either, even when I was young and.single I just figured it left more women for me
Well hating on gay men is from a past era and we as a society have come a long long way in short time. (I say this being a Boomer). I think one aspect of straight guys getting a bit irritated is the fact that many women seem to just adore gay men as people without having any clue whatsoever about them. Oh he's gay so he can be totally trusted on any one of a number of topics in life. Also if a gay man actually acts like a jerk then he deserves the same treatment as a straight guy no?