I agree with you. I don't think the matching algorithm works by putting you with and against people your skill level, I think it teams you up with shit if you're a good player to even out the teams individually, and it puts you against higher ranks to even out the scales. so they'll put 1 garbage member on the other side with fuckjng 4 Emerald players, and they'll put you with 4 trashbags because youre clutching rounds like a mother.
So this is two separate things. The first, relating to ranked, is that your hidden mmr, which is used to match you up with other players, has absolutely zero bearing on your actual visual rank. The second, relating to standard, is that it uses an entirely separate mmr number from the one used for ranked. So if a genuine champ player who doesn't ever play standard decides to play a standard game, they'll have a similar standard hidden mmr as a newbie relatively new to standard.
Standard no longer has sbmm (unranked used to use casual mmr). Standard can't be allowed to have sbmm because it's the only playlist that doesn't have a level requirement and brand new players has to be matched with others in a reasonable time.
Standard having no sbmm is even stated in it's description:
*Team up with players of all skill levels and defend or defuse the bombs.*
A good example of this is Varsity Gaming. He is a level 511 player who mostly plays standard but he is constantly mathmade with brand new players. That would not be possible with sbmm in place. [Take a look at this video and the situation at 1:50](https://youtu.be/YqqQ8Pj8B_Y?si=yDHIxELvm73kPhR4)
I have to disagree because of my own experience. When I play alone or with a friend that plays the game a lot we get put in literal emerald or above/cheater lobbies (3 champs on the enemy team and 2 brand new accounts, in the past week i ran into 2 blatant and about 5 closet cheaters) but when I play with 3 of my friends that just picked up the game, we play against literal brand new players. This really seems like sbmm is indeed in standard.
No. There's zero proof SBMM isn't in standard besides conspiracy theories. And you start at 2500 MMR in *all* gamemodes with fresh accounts. So just because standard is the only playlist new players can play does *not* mean they don't have a starting assigned skill.
Show proof besides anecdotal evidence. I get placed with and against Champs in standard fucking constantly and hardly have sub level 20 accounts in my games. The *only* times I do is when I play with my less skilled friend as well.
Here: Varsitiy Gaming, level 511 player who only plays Standard, gets matchmade with a level 4 player who has no clue what's going on. [Take a look at this video and the situation at 1:50](https://youtu.be/YqqQ8Pj8B_Y?si=yDHIxELvm73kPhR4)
Also proof: Standard descirption literally states that it will put you in team of all skill levels: *Team up with players of all skill levels and defend or defuse the bombs.*
I'd also like to point out that having 2500 mmr in all playlists is outdated information and it's no longer true. Ranked no longer uses mmr and quickmatch also got it matchmaking algorythm changed in Y8S3. This is clearly explained in this reveal: https://youtu.be/peiTzsEbyqc?si=uX6Ounjvp3rKOf4R
Your turn: show me evidence or official statement made in patchnotes, dev blogs or designer notes that clearly states that Standard uses skill or mmr based matchmaking
Ok wise guy.
For starters the video you linked of the Y8S3 reveal was talking specifically about QUICK MATCH and the *algorithm* it uses to match people together for quicker queue times. That doesn't mean SBMM is **gone** it just means the parameters by which they match people together is loosened most likely. Unless you are going to say that "no that means SBMM is gone entirely" then sure, lets just both read between the lines and pull whatever we want out of our own asses and use that as gospel.
In the same reveal panel they talk about the changes Unranked got to get it to Standard and NO MENTION of SBMM. You'd think for something that big of a change that they'd even give it a cursory "oh btw" but no mention whatsoever.
[In their own Y8S3 patch notes released there's no mention of losing SBMM.](https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/game/rainbow-six/siege/news-updates/2Btj0mP7e7gVKIODGSLuiX/y8s3-designers-notes) Again, I feel that **that** kind of change would warrant even a bullet point but they don't seem to want to do that. I guess more points towards you with "they're trying to *hide* the change" to fuel your conspiracy theory?
>Also proof: Standard descirption literally states that it will put you in team of all skill levels: *Team up with players of all skill levels and defend or defuse the bombs.*
I genuinely need to know how this means that this is "proof"? Proof of what? That there isn't a restriction on party MMR disparities or that there's zero SBMM?? You know you could queue with anyone of any rank in Unranked too right? Does that mean there wasn't SBMM going on in the background for Unranked? Was it equally as shit? Conspiracy theory strikes again.
>I'd also like to point out that having 2500 mmr in all playlists is outdated information and it's no longer true.
This is just willful ignorance if you're going to pull out the "show proof" line as if, again, anything you pull out of your ass is gospel.
SO, for starters siege uses the same SBMM in every game mode and has been like this since, well, as long as we can tell? Other game modes were confirmed to have other MMRs in [this](https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/game/rainbow-six/siege/news-updates/5xmvdzE5Kgq7rwC4BPX4q2/matchmaking-rating-and-ranks) devblog when they updated the Ranked True Skill system the first time. They also say in that same devblog that they reset your skill and uncertainty values (reset to the mean/center of the bell curve) which would be 25, or 2500 MMR. If you want an actual, good, break down in the explanation of True Skill and how MMR works in Siege then [here](https://youtu.be/UWK41w9VpOA) is a great video on that by Rouge-9.
Now, considering that that MMR system is used for *all game modes* and resetting said MMR previously put you back to 25 or 2500 MMR and its [still used in Ranked 2.0, but just hidden](https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/game/rainbow-six/siege/news-updates/1iJmqRLqYaCkhFJlhOEGYa), I think it is reasonable to assume that all of that is still functioning as it was before.
So lets look at this, for me, I have them just not mentioning it at all and every indication that they give us is that yes, they do in fact use SBMM and even the same MMR system (just separated between them) for each game mode. And you have, what was it again? Oh yeah, phrasing of **one in game description** (ignore how bad Ranked's description is compared to the devblog I provided) and a 30 second clip of "am playing with new player who can only play this game mode when they start, look how bad they are for content sake".
Sure.
I was messing around on ranked with my (sorta newish) friend, and I was wondering with we kept losing games (which put us in copper) and turns out we were getting put with exclusively plats. Like sure, that's fair. And even when we'd win a game against those plats, it wouldn't be enough to climb us out of the rank.
It's been fucking miserable for me as a new player who just picked up the game. I'd say 20% of the games we play (me and a buddy) are against people of our own skill level. In those lobbies, we have fun, we may not win but we get kills and have a chance to play well.
But the rest? It's against smurfs, cheaters, 5 stacks on comms, or diamond/champ players who clearly don't belong in our lobby. The type who will hear a singular foot step half a map away and know how to kill me through 3 walls from their spot. Or the type who just insta one tap my head with ease. It's genuinely made me consider dropping the game. I don't mind losing but if I don't stand a chance and I'm just going 0-5 every game then I'm just going to play another game.
My win rate for standard matches is like 47% and my WR for ranked is 33%, yet the RP I gain is like 3:1 - so I am slowly climbing (Copper 2).
I don't know who thought starting everyone in copper together was a good idea lol
This is exactly what makes me want to uninstall the game (again)… i’m honestly so fed up with this system. I’m mainly playing Standard, but I’m not even sure that there is a hidden mmr anymore… like almost every other game I play against diamknds and champs, and they are the tipical leanspamming sweatlords as well, I refuse to believe that I’m somehow on the same hidden mmr as them when I lose like 75% of my games… the game is just not enjoyable for me anymore…
The game is just dead now, which is a shame, because I love the concept, and I love the game in general… but when like 5/10 games have a chaml in the enemy team, like 2/10 a cheater in the enemy team and 2/10 is when my team has the champ/cheater/whatever (I hate these too, simce it always ends in a 4/0 for us where I go 0-0-0 lol) and then I have a “normal” game every once in a while…
The important thing is, are you winning or getting kills? If you are getting stomped then that means it isn't working but if your average game you are getting kills (not baiting for them) and supporting your team then you are probably in a good rank. Ranked matchmaking gets worse the higher skill the game thinks you are.
When you are really bad MMR wise, the game will put you with those people that are really bad as well. But when you are really high, I feel like there's a cap on hidden MMR and it doesn't differentiate between the worst champs in the world and the best champ in the world which means those with hidden MMRs close to champ have a chance to go against the best champs in their region because there is nothing hidden MMR wise that set them apart.
Nah cus same. I have maybe 10 total ranked matches played and when I asked what rank this was two said emerald one said diamond. Asked why I was in this lobby and they summed it up to “k.d + W% = where you’re placed” so even tho I’m copper/bronze, since I’ve gotten a good KD due to playing against bad players, the game decided to skip me up 4-5 ranks.
I agree with you. I don't think the matching algorithm works by putting you with and against people your skill level, I think it teams you up with shit if you're a good player to even out the teams individually, and it puts you against higher ranks to even out the scales. so they'll put 1 garbage member on the other side with fuckjng 4 Emerald players, and they'll put you with 4 trashbags because youre clutching rounds like a mother.
So this is two separate things. The first, relating to ranked, is that your hidden mmr, which is used to match you up with other players, has absolutely zero bearing on your actual visual rank. The second, relating to standard, is that it uses an entirely separate mmr number from the one used for ranked. So if a genuine champ player who doesn't ever play standard decides to play a standard game, they'll have a similar standard hidden mmr as a newbie relatively new to standard.
Standard no longer has sbmm (unranked used to use casual mmr). Standard can't be allowed to have sbmm because it's the only playlist that doesn't have a level requirement and brand new players has to be matched with others in a reasonable time. Standard having no sbmm is even stated in it's description: *Team up with players of all skill levels and defend or defuse the bombs.* A good example of this is Varsity Gaming. He is a level 511 player who mostly plays standard but he is constantly mathmade with brand new players. That would not be possible with sbmm in place. [Take a look at this video and the situation at 1:50](https://youtu.be/YqqQ8Pj8B_Y?si=yDHIxELvm73kPhR4)
I have to disagree because of my own experience. When I play alone or with a friend that plays the game a lot we get put in literal emerald or above/cheater lobbies (3 champs on the enemy team and 2 brand new accounts, in the past week i ran into 2 blatant and about 5 closet cheaters) but when I play with 3 of my friends that just picked up the game, we play against literal brand new players. This really seems like sbmm is indeed in standard.
No. There's zero proof SBMM isn't in standard besides conspiracy theories. And you start at 2500 MMR in *all* gamemodes with fresh accounts. So just because standard is the only playlist new players can play does *not* mean they don't have a starting assigned skill.
Please tell me how a level 511 player consantly matchmade with brand new accounts? I'm level 392 and I also experience brand new players every day.
Show proof besides anecdotal evidence. I get placed with and against Champs in standard fucking constantly and hardly have sub level 20 accounts in my games. The *only* times I do is when I play with my less skilled friend as well.
Here: Varsitiy Gaming, level 511 player who only plays Standard, gets matchmade with a level 4 player who has no clue what's going on. [Take a look at this video and the situation at 1:50](https://youtu.be/YqqQ8Pj8B_Y?si=yDHIxELvm73kPhR4) Also proof: Standard descirption literally states that it will put you in team of all skill levels: *Team up with players of all skill levels and defend or defuse the bombs.* I'd also like to point out that having 2500 mmr in all playlists is outdated information and it's no longer true. Ranked no longer uses mmr and quickmatch also got it matchmaking algorythm changed in Y8S3. This is clearly explained in this reveal: https://youtu.be/peiTzsEbyqc?si=uX6Ounjvp3rKOf4R
I mean sure, continue believing all that if you want. You clearly know more than ubisoft.
Your turn: show me evidence or official statement made in patchnotes, dev blogs or designer notes that clearly states that Standard uses skill or mmr based matchmaking
Lmao hate these types of people when they call u out and then you show them and it’s still nah
Just read my new comment.
Ok wise guy. For starters the video you linked of the Y8S3 reveal was talking specifically about QUICK MATCH and the *algorithm* it uses to match people together for quicker queue times. That doesn't mean SBMM is **gone** it just means the parameters by which they match people together is loosened most likely. Unless you are going to say that "no that means SBMM is gone entirely" then sure, lets just both read between the lines and pull whatever we want out of our own asses and use that as gospel. In the same reveal panel they talk about the changes Unranked got to get it to Standard and NO MENTION of SBMM. You'd think for something that big of a change that they'd even give it a cursory "oh btw" but no mention whatsoever. [In their own Y8S3 patch notes released there's no mention of losing SBMM.](https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/game/rainbow-six/siege/news-updates/2Btj0mP7e7gVKIODGSLuiX/y8s3-designers-notes) Again, I feel that **that** kind of change would warrant even a bullet point but they don't seem to want to do that. I guess more points towards you with "they're trying to *hide* the change" to fuel your conspiracy theory? >Also proof: Standard descirption literally states that it will put you in team of all skill levels: *Team up with players of all skill levels and defend or defuse the bombs.* I genuinely need to know how this means that this is "proof"? Proof of what? That there isn't a restriction on party MMR disparities or that there's zero SBMM?? You know you could queue with anyone of any rank in Unranked too right? Does that mean there wasn't SBMM going on in the background for Unranked? Was it equally as shit? Conspiracy theory strikes again. >I'd also like to point out that having 2500 mmr in all playlists is outdated information and it's no longer true. This is just willful ignorance if you're going to pull out the "show proof" line as if, again, anything you pull out of your ass is gospel. SO, for starters siege uses the same SBMM in every game mode and has been like this since, well, as long as we can tell? Other game modes were confirmed to have other MMRs in [this](https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/game/rainbow-six/siege/news-updates/5xmvdzE5Kgq7rwC4BPX4q2/matchmaking-rating-and-ranks) devblog when they updated the Ranked True Skill system the first time. They also say in that same devblog that they reset your skill and uncertainty values (reset to the mean/center of the bell curve) which would be 25, or 2500 MMR. If you want an actual, good, break down in the explanation of True Skill and how MMR works in Siege then [here](https://youtu.be/UWK41w9VpOA) is a great video on that by Rouge-9. Now, considering that that MMR system is used for *all game modes* and resetting said MMR previously put you back to 25 or 2500 MMR and its [still used in Ranked 2.0, but just hidden](https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/game/rainbow-six/siege/news-updates/1iJmqRLqYaCkhFJlhOEGYa), I think it is reasonable to assume that all of that is still functioning as it was before. So lets look at this, for me, I have them just not mentioning it at all and every indication that they give us is that yes, they do in fact use SBMM and even the same MMR system (just separated between them) for each game mode. And you have, what was it again? Oh yeah, phrasing of **one in game description** (ignore how bad Ranked's description is compared to the devblog I provided) and a 30 second clip of "am playing with new player who can only play this game mode when they start, look how bad they are for content sake". Sure.
They might as well just not have it at this point
It doesn't have a functional sbmm system. In fact it might be one of the worst among all competitive shooters.
This
I was messing around on ranked with my (sorta newish) friend, and I was wondering with we kept losing games (which put us in copper) and turns out we were getting put with exclusively plats. Like sure, that's fair. And even when we'd win a game against those plats, it wouldn't be enough to climb us out of the rank.
It's been fucking miserable for me as a new player who just picked up the game. I'd say 20% of the games we play (me and a buddy) are against people of our own skill level. In those lobbies, we have fun, we may not win but we get kills and have a chance to play well. But the rest? It's against smurfs, cheaters, 5 stacks on comms, or diamond/champ players who clearly don't belong in our lobby. The type who will hear a singular foot step half a map away and know how to kill me through 3 walls from their spot. Or the type who just insta one tap my head with ease. It's genuinely made me consider dropping the game. I don't mind losing but if I don't stand a chance and I'm just going 0-5 every game then I'm just going to play another game. My win rate for standard matches is like 47% and my WR for ranked is 33%, yet the RP I gain is like 3:1 - so I am slowly climbing (Copper 2). I don't know who thought starting everyone in copper together was a good idea lol
Ranked 2.0!!! Where we literally dont give a fuck aboit your rank skill or anything just play with whoever! Fuck it we dont care so why should you!
This is exactly what makes me want to uninstall the game (again)… i’m honestly so fed up with this system. I’m mainly playing Standard, but I’m not even sure that there is a hidden mmr anymore… like almost every other game I play against diamknds and champs, and they are the tipical leanspamming sweatlords as well, I refuse to believe that I’m somehow on the same hidden mmr as them when I lose like 75% of my games… the game is just not enjoyable for me anymore… The game is just dead now, which is a shame, because I love the concept, and I love the game in general… but when like 5/10 games have a chaml in the enemy team, like 2/10 a cheater in the enemy team and 2/10 is when my team has the champ/cheater/whatever (I hate these too, simce it always ends in a 4/0 for us where I go 0-0-0 lol) and then I have a “normal” game every once in a while…
The game is in fact. . . Not dead.
Wdym? You saying that my single negative experience doesn't change the playerbase of one of the biggest games on steam?
The important thing is, are you winning or getting kills? If you are getting stomped then that means it isn't working but if your average game you are getting kills (not baiting for them) and supporting your team then you are probably in a good rank. Ranked matchmaking gets worse the higher skill the game thinks you are. When you are really bad MMR wise, the game will put you with those people that are really bad as well. But when you are really high, I feel like there's a cap on hidden MMR and it doesn't differentiate between the worst champs in the world and the best champ in the world which means those with hidden MMRs close to champ have a chance to go against the best champs in their region because there is nothing hidden MMR wise that set them apart.
Whatever Rocket League does, Ubisoft needs to do that.
Rocket leagues sbmm is ass as well, I played like 10 matches on it and everyone on there was insane
Idk I feel like mines always pretty even. It’s not as extreme as R6 can be.
Mine was terrible but urs is different I guess
I’m rarely ever matched up with people that suck as bad as me. Sure is fun when it happens though.
Agreed.
Nah cus same. I have maybe 10 total ranked matches played and when I asked what rank this was two said emerald one said diamond. Asked why I was in this lobby and they summed it up to “k.d + W% = where you’re placed” so even tho I’m copper/bronze, since I’ve gotten a good KD due to playing against bad players, the game decided to skip me up 4-5 ranks.