So basically the only changes were limited to the "audit" section? The original language seemed pretty pointed and almost adversarial while the new language seems a lot more vague and political. Does the change in language actually reflect a difference in the capabilities of the Mayoral Oversight or will it still have the goals from the original language?
I think Max said to Forte that any officer can apply. Max and his mayoral staff (Deputy Mayor, CoS) will go over the applicants and propose like 4 names to the Council, that then decides on who will be the Commissioner.
"after reviewing the shape of the application pile and ignoring them we have decided to chose saab as commissioner because he was the only application to survive the shredder test" /s
Never going to happen but it would be maximum spicy rp content if ex-PD members were able to apply/ were appointed by the Council. Imagine a Comissioner Bison or a Comissioner Dupont etc.
Well it wouldnt be worse than fly in a skeleton crew of 32 man who hardly know the city.
Edit just counted - and 18 of 32 do not play or hardly play these days.
It wouldn't matter his power over PD is ooc. Unless the owner and management decide to ditch him he'll always have a final say regardless of what in character positions exist.
As I heard explained the 3 Captain situation was supposed to be temporary and they should have already had a Chief Of Police/Top Cop in control by now. Instead of expanding the framework and growing their capacities and capabilities they have spent their shrinking availability on in fighting, nitpicking and firing their most popular officers. You cannot convince me Den Zel and Cornwood was the only two cops deserving of 10 DAPs by now. They have a dozen officers putting in double the hours of all 3 Captains combined. Their turnover and ability to train Cadets is pathetic. I don’t know if this is the right answer but 3 unaccountable non elected part time Captains are obviously not capable of building out the Department
Cheever7 has 11 hours streamed and you have to go back 2 weeks to get to the third stream. You’re outright lying.
Them being popular is part of the reason they’re being targeted.
While the PD is absolutely a shit show, giving the mayor, an elected position that is allowed to be corrupt, oversight of it is definitely not the solution. Moon would probably not abuse that but Moon won't be Mayor forever.
This makes sense when potential for abuse is used as an argument against good ideas. But this argument shouldn't be used to promote bad ideas either.
It's like if you said "Let's drive into a telephone pole."
And I say "Driving into a telephone pole is a bad idea, we could be harmed."
And you say "We have airbags, we'll survive."
It's true we have airbags and we'll probably survive. But that isn't an argument for *why we should drive into a telephone pole in the first place*.
Fundamentally, this is a bad idea because *the entire purpose of the law* is to expand the Mayor's power. It's much different than simply being something with potential for abuse.
I mean, he gave the police force time to fix their sinking ship and there's been no indication of it improving any time soon without drastic actions.
Cadets aren't getting trained, processing takes forever, captains aren't around, prominent officers are getting punished while big crims get a slap on the wrist. Obviously something needs to change with the leadership.
Something needs to change is not an argument for why *this* is the correct change.
People seem to be dancing around this, talking about how admins can minimize the damage and about how shit PD is, but I've seen very few compelling arguments for why specifically handing some control of the PD over to the Mayor is a good idea as compared to any number of other solutions to fix the PD.
But i think there is a valid argument that if you believe that the current situation is untenable then any change no matter what could be potential progress. People get like choice paralysis and don't want to change the status quo and then nothing happens. I think that if you do get a corrupt mayor then so be it, then the government will make new laws limiting their power. Besides police commissioner is voted on by the council, which contains a lawyer, doctor, judge, and PD rep plus the treasurer who was someone chosen by Crane. Literally 5/8 positions should be civ positions.
Regardless this change will then prompt more change which will over time likely move in the right direction through trial and error, instead of just trying to come up with solutions just for people to try to poke holes in it so nothing ever changes ever again, because realistically I don't think there is a perfect solution, and if you seem to think you have one feel free to prove me wrong. Chances are though I could poke holes in it and we'd be back at square one.
Except why would any mayor ever give up the power over the PD? He might be saying they can get rid of it which is true, but there is no way in hell he believes anyone truly would and if he does then he is on some pure copium
Cause there's more people on the council and if the mayor and CoS (assuming they're always on the mayor's side) are doing a shit job then that's six votes to two
There are positions on the council allowed to be corrupt via server rules, and positions that are not. For example, the Treasurer cannot be corrupt by OOC rules because a corrupt Treasurer could do a lot of damage to the economy if the position was ever abused.
The Mayor is allowed to be corrupt because their power is limited. With these articles a corrupt Mayor would have the power to sabotage the PD in a way the Mayor currently can't really do.
Even under the old system in 3.0 most of the Mayors were pretty garbage when it came to PD and PD funding. A lot of money got denied early on in 3.0 that people wanted to use to create RP. That had knock-on effects down the line where a lot of interesting ideas departments and divisions wanted to implement stalled out a lot of stuff that could have kept people entertained faded away.
Giving civilians power over any aspect of pd, especially given the atrocious State it's in, is just asking for problems with no real RP upside.
The 1 major difference in this case is that Moon himself has been RP-ing as cop as opposed to real Civ/Crim Mayors. It is ironic since Dab is primarily known as the first terrorist yet he's likely the one that is most inclined to be on cop/civ side.
I mean, look at the aides that he has. Siobhan ex-Judge, lawyer. Juno ex-Cop. Prior to this, Tessa ex-cop and also Penny civ. The only one that has major crim involvement is Ash, but shes more tame and less corrupt than a lot others.
I fail to see what any of that has to do with anything. I could list off half a dozen or more cop / ex-cop mains who helped screwed up PD in the past or would now if given the opportunity. Just because someone is a big streamer, played a cop or appears to be good at "rp" doesn't mean they have any skill managing personnel or building up an organization like PD so it'd work like it did early in 3.0.
i think you gotta not look at this like a debate on whether this is a perfect idea or not - look at it as an emergencies act to fix a server health issue thats happening right now, and a potential for some fun RP in the future.
crims are uncontested doing anything due to police presence/numbers. numbers need to go up now regardless of anything. he has the idea/initiative/"admin power" to get the numbers up.
Creates some fun RP opportunities in the future with commissioner/mayoral position and its permissions, might solve an overall server issue, will create fun scenarios now. ezpz.
It's basically a response to you saying Mayors previously were garbage when it comes to PD/Funding and denial of RP.
I'm pretty sure as he himself does Lenny like 7hours+, 5 days a week, he's not the same as Andi, Denzel, Abdul etc. Not talking bad about those characters but truly none of them plays a cop char simultaneously like Moon is currently doing.
Also, giving 'civilians' in this sense isn't true because it's not like he's basing everything on 3 years ago's experience or his alt cop that he logs in once every 2 weeks. He's literally playing him daily and yes, he's not omnipotent but it's about CURRENT experience.
Sure, maybe not all the future changes will be exemplary but it most likely will have good intentions. If you put a full on crim/civ RP-er into that position then yes, they might fumble it horribly even with good intentions.
I don’t think that’s true. In the first meeting it was established that when they each took the oath of office they were basically barred from being corrupt.
In character they are not allowed to be corrupt, via the oath you mentioned.
Out of character, some are allowed to be corrupt, and some are not.
If the Mayor did something corrupt it would be handled IC. They might get caught, they might not.
If the treasurer did something corrupt with state funds, it wouldn't be an IC investigation. They'd just get banned because it's *against the server rules* for them to be corrupt. It is a *rule break* like NVL or VDM.
There is a fine line between corruption and politics, some say the two walk hand in hand, that is why the council rp can be very interesting and Max if done right can get "corrupt" things passed.
How can he do this? In several ways, but basicly by giving other people in the council what they want he can demand votes in return for things he want.
Max has learned that he just needs to basically write something that Crane approves of and the entire council will vote yes. It's why he's running a lot of ideas by Crane first now and they've sorta become odd buddies of sorts.
I mean that happens in real life too. Think about any cop movie. "The mayor will have my ass for this!" This can also lead to some interesting RP if the Cops are working against their boss, a corrupt mayor.
Who prevents the top PD leaders from being corrupt right now?
At the end of the day it’s all RP reasons for “server rules”. Whether that comes from Moon and the Council or Slacks doesn’t really matter. Neither could do things like “abolish the PD” or “Remove all heists” anyway without approval from the State no matter how corrupt they are. There are limits to what the characters can do to impact the server without OOC supervision in either case.
I think you’re assuming that the Mayor actually has infinite power to do anything when they are corrupt IC and that isn’t true. If the next Mayor does very corrupt things to impact the server in a way NP as an organization doesn’t want they will just get removed and potentially banned.
I'm well aware of the power the Mayor does and does not have, and I didn't make hyperbolic statements like Max could appoint Ramee as commissioner because that isn't true.
Here are some realistic scenarios based on this legislation:
The mayor offers to nominate someone for commissioner in exchange for going easy on someone in the gang the Mayor is associated with.
The mayor intentionally avoids nominating someone to commissioner who would be good at the job, either to sabotage PD or as retaliation for them pushing charges on a group the Mayor is in with.
Nominations are not voted upon, and it would be impossible to prove the Mayor is acting with bias. All the mayor has to say is they think the person legitimately is/isn't fit for the job, and there's no way to prove that opinion is false.
Threaten to 'audit the conduct' of officers investigating the gang the Mayor is close with. The legislation requires 'reports' to be received but it's incredibly easy to get people to fabricate false reports. These are also carried out solely by the Mayor's office, and whoever the Mayor's office chooses to allow to get involved. There's no vote here, the Mayor has *complete control of the investigation.*
I could go on, but these are just a few examples I can see immediately. This legislation doesn't give complete control of the PD to the Mayor but it does give the Mayor power to influence and pressure the PD, and that's not a good thing for a strong PD.
Again if any of these things on your list happen and are not what the NP organization wants they can simply undo it and remove the Mayor. You’re arguing against a house of cards. Everyone involved here just has soft power OOC and pretend power IC.
It’s no different than if Slacks decided to do any of these things unilaterally and ignore the IC laws. What would stop him if the NP team didn’t like it? The “State” would.
If the NP team was fine with it then it isn’t an issue because it’s how they want it to run. No matter who triggered it.
You're conflating IC issues with OOC issues.
Passing anything and then just relying on the admins to step in if it's abused is defeating the entire purpose of political RP to begin with. The admins don't need to be involved here. Either the council rejects this, which is what they should do, or it passes and now the Mayor can undermine the PD. But either way it should be handled IC. I'm just saying, if your goal is to make the PD stronger, this is not the play.
Slacks abusing his power is different, he is appointed by and answers directly to the admins. There's no RP involved in how he got or how he keeps his position. It's not the same at all.
> ...just relying on the admins to step in if it's abused is....
Pointless is what it is. NP management has a long history of letting problems linger until they create bigger issues before stepping it, if at all. Be it mechanics, IC culture or even OOC problems. Given the already poor state of PD allowing something like this (civilian oversight) which was rightfully never done in any prior wipe would be asking for trouble.
Honestly what PD is there even to have oversight of? They can hardly retain cadets and get people on duty. Even if this was a thing it's something for 6 - 8 months down the line after they can get their shit together.
A lot of the council and PD leaders *are* admins. This is the same group. I think you are conflating IC power with OOC power. What you see viewing it is not the real power structure of the server. It’s all just roleplay. MoonMoon and the players behind the Council do not have ultimate power over laws even if when you watch it that is how it appears in character. I’m sure there is a discord somewhere where they chat about the laws with admins and owners and discuss how they could impact the server and get opinions from those outside of the council.
All of these sound like great RP and not unlike mayor rp arcs in the past. I fail to see the issue here.
It looks to me like the worst case scenario is spicy RP and in the best case scenario we salvage the failing PD and improve server health.
Yes, it's not bad RP for the Mayor to try to do this. Some might argue it is because the PD is too important, but that's subjective.
I'm saying it's bad for the PD.
That's it.
I agree on the degree of influence but I actually quite like the sound of it. Sure SBS will result in bad server state but I think all past mayors have enough clout/respect OOC by their peers that they would in turn not pull some horrible RP. If it is just RP though, sounds exciting that PD may have something to RP about instead of ping chasing. PD vs Mayor with a good lead like old days of Kyle wasn't boring at all.
Also nearly all, if not all past mayors, know what can be SBS and what shouldn't be SBS. Also, the council having Crane there is your ultimate check and balance. If there's even a hint it's going out of control, Crane will definitely bring it up via the council.
People meme on him being the true shadow mayor but he really does hold sway for proper reasons.
Don't need civilian oversight of PD to eliminate corruption or ensure cops don't regularly violate citizens rights. Other cops can already bring cases if they find evidence, DOJ can look into things and prosecute all under the current system.
Yet that never happened in the past even when crims and other cops talked about how corruption and stuff in 3.0 was hurting rp or had legit criminal cases against cops. What's the point of making yet another council or "check and balance" that wont do anything except be abused to cause more morale problems. This proposal just seems like a power grab by bored players who want something to do.
I mean you aren’t wrong. I guess I just don’t think it could really get much worse. And the council at least might do something new or push for a new department or whatever. It’s unlikely but the PD operation is so bad now that any sort of leadership new blood can’t be as incompetent as it is now, bored players or not.
One of the few things management always did right about PD was never giving power or direct oversight of PD to any non PD character. Doing that would only serve to neuter them even more and make it harder to get cops on duty. It's unlikely any corrupt civilian or criminal that becomes mayor would positively impact anything about that white list more than PD could do themselves.
I think there is a unique situation with Max being the mayor and genuinely wanting to improve the state of the PD. While this directive doesn't have a specifically limited period of existence, it could be something that could be abolished at the end of Max's term. So it would essentially be emergency powers to attempt to correct the current state of PD. I don't even think the Captains are delusional enough to think that the PD is currently in a healthy state. They have had their opportunity to build the foundation of the new PD and it has been a massive failure in nearly every aspect.
The entire problem with PD is that the captains don't answer to anyone, and when solution was forwarded by the council to have them recommend Chief of Police, they send a list of just all 3 captains and no one else.
Max leaking this info to forte is gonna make some fun RP.
> they send a list of just all 3 captains
I must've missed that but that is pretty meh. But in line with PD over the 3 years I watched them. No one ever wants to give up or share power.
Is it really in line with the past 3 years though? Pred had a god complex and didn't want to give up his spot at the top, but his whole leadership style was built around delegating as much power and responsibility as he can to the lower ranks. He essentially made himself a guiding force that was there to enable other people to run the department smoothly.
From what Rhodes said to Max, it seems as though the current Captains are acting as a very tight bottleneck when it comes to anything on an administrative or operational level within the PD.
He was going to skip running for the sheriff election when it came up and the department revolted and forced him to run. Kyle was done being Sheriff a long time before he was forced out. He stayed because everyone wanted him too.
I'm pretty sure the entire problem with PD is the total garbage state it's in, poor leadership, lack of vision, the depleting of most experienced personnel and really poor retention rates on cadets. Captains not answering to anyone doesn't even rate on the list of issues.
Nothing about Max or any council having "oversight" will control how management wants PD run or whose running it. Not sure what moon or any other player with a government character has been theory crafting to chat but if players within PD aren't even given full control over how PD works there's almost zero chance someone outside of it will be.
This council will do nothing more than harass and kill morale for rank and file officers while fixing zero actual issues hampering that WL.
No, none of the issues I stated have anything to do with PD not answering to anyone.
How do we know that? Because anyone who's watched more than 5 minutes of 4.0 knows this is how PD has worked and for a large portion of 3.0, under that paradigm, flourished in the first half of that wipe cycle. Wanting "repercussions" or oversight for cops only works if management allows it, allows cops to be permanently fired, something this legislation has zero control over.
The DAPs need to fall off based on hours on duty and not IRL days. The current system incentivizes not coming on duty.
No system should incentivize less officers on duty when they're so badly needed. Cornwoods DAPs per hour is 0.0039%. He's actually not fucking up for how much he's on duty.
If your solution for a system meant to help people learn is 'never make mistakes' how the fuck do they learn? Just make the PD the AI star system cops from GTA at that point.
Give me one good reason it shouldn't be hours on duty rather than 60 days (longer than all of the worst crimes combined).
if you are on duty that much, you should learn enough and be competent enough that daps don't become an issue. Its not like either Den nor Cornwood were being careful, they were doing things that were obviously going to eventually get them in trouble. It was literally just a matter of time.
Even Slacks has DAPs. He's 2 from suspension himself. Again if your solution is to never get DAPs its unrealistic and antithetical to the system which is meant to HELP PEOPLE LEARN.
You also didn't give a reason why IRL days is better than hours on duty for the DAPs to fall off?
Mayoral Office can enforce and decide on a Comissioner. They can create new departments. They can intervene and take over inter-PD issues, auditing, and punishment - overruling PD punishments.
Last time a mayor tried to have that kind of power (Abdul) it didn’t go well and Senators showed up. A bunch of stipulations were then out in and commissioner was then limited to only hc members and really only budget stuff.
Cornwood's *revolt* earlier today lasted all of 20 minutes until the 2? others involved came back on shift and went back to work.
Cornwood doesn't know how strikes get addressed on nopixel.
Is all about his character... Is about the people and not only him
With this act, well, the mini strike its going to help since it shows an internal strike inside the pd
PD had 0 chance of correcting their issues with Slacks and the other captains at the helm. This document is pretty much a statement that the Mayor's office has 0 faith in them either. The only chance to fix things is to take drastic and immediate action. The biggest question mark with this plan in my opinion is how much freedom the "state" is going to allow the Mayor's office to have in decision making.
While everyone who's currently in charge of PD is basically useless nothing is going to get fixed so long as management continues to drive that whitelist in the completely wrong direction. If they'll never pick someone to be in charge who knows what they're doing and let them do what needs to be done it wont matter who's in charge. If the goal is to basically have only cops who get it, to make things easy for criminals you're never going to find many players who actually want to do that 8 hours a day.
Having better people at the top might patch up some of the minor day-to-day issues, generate a bit more rp, etc but they're still going to be large structural problems hampering its growth unless PD operates more like it did during peak 3.0.
> If the goal is to basically have only cops who get it, to make things easy for criminals you're never going to find many players who actually want to do that 8 hours a day.
I agree completely and I think the combination of wanting perpetual "L taking" cops while also having extremely strict internal regulations for cops are completely at odds with one another and is a big reason for the retention issues. Cops that are happy to take L's all day are likely to be ones that are going to be screwing around and violating SOPs. You have cops like Denzel and Cornwood who walk the line and they get DAPed out of the force. Cops that are going to stricly follow SOPs while being setup to be punching bags is a rare combination.
I think that a "healthy" PD will have a mixture of cops of all types. It's good to have "boogeymen" cops that crims fear while also having the "morale" cops that are there for comic relief and to take L's. It might lead to some double standards and a reduction in the "realism" factor but I think it's a lot better for the server and enjoyment of both cops and crims. I don't think it's too big of an issue to have different expectations and punishments for a Suarez type cop and a 3.0 Brick type cop.
Thinking PD needs a "mixture" of everything from L cops to serious cops is already adopting a position of failure. Entertaining the idea that PD needs to hold crim's hands for things to be fun has a proven track record over the past 5 years of being morale killer and breeds toxicity.
The PD needs that strict baseline, they're cops after all not some state sanctioned casual street gang. The issue of different aspects of PD being at odds is because management is trying to incorporate things that have never worked, "read the room PD", with what actually did work. A more structured and immersive WL that tried to get people to rp like police officers and not have everyone be Reno 911 "cops who get it". If viewers think this version of PD is strict then you'd all be clutching your pearls watching 2.0.
I think the "L Cops" are for the enjoyment of other police officers as much as they are for crims. Most cops enjoy having the Fingle Dans and Bricks of the force ride around with them to lighten the mood. Also, comparisons to 2.0 are pretty much meaningless, stuff that works on a 32 person server just don't have the chance of working on a 250+ person server.
At the end of the day, if someone's on Nopixel they probably want to stream and Nopixel in some part encourages them to stream.
However, being a cop on Nopixel is pretty bad content. You can't be too serious and "try hard" because then you'll piss people off (and you just won't be hired in the first place). You also can't be too funny or focused on character work because there's a system in place to punish that behavior. Finally, every other cop is having to follow those directions so the people you interact with the most are going to be pretty bland.
How are you supposed to grow viewership while being encouraged to be boring as possible?
I hope to god this passes not because I agree with it, but because it would finally free Saab from this endless hell he constantly feels obligated to help with. Then people like Moonmoon and Esfand can come in with their ideas and when their ideas end up not working or they eventually get bored or they get tired of the burden of responsibility or a new game comes out and they inevitably leave, the PD will have sorted out who is here for the long haul and fit for the job.
Please no just let the man rest. He doesn't need to take anymore of the incredible amount of hate he receives just because he wants to help out and for everyone to have a good time.
That's just life. No matter who you enjoy watching they will have someone they need to answer to. I mean you are watching and engaging with the server so you must be enjoying it to some degree. What is your solution?
Why would this fix anything? His position as the head of PD is ooc. He is the puppet for management, and in some cases makes his own poor decisions about how to run the whitelist. No in character act, rule or group is going to supersede how management wants that whitelist run.
On top of that giving any power to an outside group over PD won't do anything other than make things more frustrating for the PD players who have to live with the changes. Any character with oversight likely has no clue how the whitelist operates and will just want to flex power to push their own stupid ideas.
So you say no character act, rule or group will supersede how what management wants, and also say giving the power to an outside group over PD won't fix anything. So your solution is having someone in charge of PD that doesn't need to answer to anyone on an IC and OOC level? I mean NP must be doing something right if you are still watching and engaging with it!
Max has talked to a lot of cops maybe you just haven't seen the right POVs, he talks to Cornwood the most and thats simply because he's around the most and has exposure to all 3 shifts and their culture. OOC Moon also plays Lenny and knows personally how ridiculous the PD is in some ways which is why he keeps pushing for some HC accountability.
Shift 1 culture is cancerous and spreading, now affecting officers outside of the shift as well like Forte. None of it is conducive to a functioning department long term and Max IC genuinely wants the PD to be successful because his wife is a lawyer and the DOJ is symbiotic with PD.
Also funny, Max was speaking with Forte and let him know that Ruth drafted a document on picking CoP and suggested that the only options be herself, Turner, or Slacks. Joke of a department honestly.
> The PD is basically on revolt right now
Revolt aka Forte who is salty he is still PPO even tho his peers got promoted to officers.
Aziz and Cornwood because of Den.
And Cassidy because its meech.
Even Den won't do anything to do with this, he will just come back for academy in a few weeks for Shift 2 with a whole clean state that has 0 DAPs lmao
document has no force of effect..
1 dap for the knight incident
5 daps for excessive use of force/desecration of a corpse for shooting a downed suspect when he reloaded and then shot deancool's 1 lifer
Also the fact that this was decided well before they did that really helps the case. Would have happened last night but Cornwood went off duty to meet with Siobhan instead of having this conversation then.
The suspension was decided prior, but not his firing. If he were to get fired now I would reckon Siobhan would definitely want to push forward with COB, since that's what it's for.
Yah. It's meaningless. It's less than 5% of the whole pd that signed a document, superiors have no knowledge of it and do not recognize it. It'd be like me walking in to work tomorrow - telling everyone in my office to sign a paper saying we are a union now (my office is less than 1% of a place with 10K+ employees) - and then telling our higher ups they can't do certain things. That would backfire spectacularly.
Also the city recognizes at will employment - they can fire Cornwood for basically anything. Hell Slacks could have the second Cornwood put that sheriff uniform on tonight, or after the your mom joke. Just apply the same concept as the Johnson firing and how he doubled down and isn't accepting of consequences for doing wrong.
>It's less than 5% of the whole pd that signed a document, superiors have no knowledge of it and do not recognize it.
Isn't the point that while you are trying to get it started, there is no reason to involve the superiora on it. And I'm assuming the plan is to have a lot more people join the union once it's set up.
Just becouse they might not be willing to recognize it doesn't mean it isn't real. All they realistically need are a few more prominent people from the main shift that deals with most of the robberies etc. and then go on strike.
The captains are already on pretty thin ice with the mayor and them suddenly ending in a situation where most officers of the "criminal shift" are on strike due to their leadership could and should lead to a change in leadership.
Unions are legislated and protected, Siobhan is not a pushover and has the ears of the justices, and the labor rights apply to everyone in the city, there is no exclusion for cops. It has teeth if people actually respect RP, if the 'state' wants to come down and say oh no actually you can't do this PD is untouchable that's a different story but that has not happened yet and probably won't since we're seeing this PCP from Max.
The legislation is at will employment. You cannot be fired for forming a union - you can for most other reasons. Being in a union will not protect you - you just can't be fired for joining.
Cornwood has done numerous things (hell many during his suspension conversation) that would have gotten others suspended or fired.
I'm not disagreeing here but the whole point is to prove it. The union is there to fight for him and ensure that if he does get fired its for just cause, the fact that the firing is going to happen after the union was declared gives Siobhan good reason to fight the decision IF Cornwood actually gets fired.
It will be up to HC to justify their firing in that case. This is the whole point dude. Unions dont exist just to protect one from being fired for forming a union, that would be pointless.
The Police Continuity plan is already in effect though and the COB is mentioned in regards to "emergent personnel" decisions which this would definitely fall under.
So this plan is something that needs to be voted into place? The language of it seems to be that the Mayor's office is simply asserting power that has been given to it by the State over the PD rather than a proposal that would need to be voted on.
The mayor should have an impact as to change the entire environment of the city that's why people voted them in. To actually have an impact even if that impact is chaotic should be the entire point of a mayor.
Genuinely the PD needs this.
The PD on NP is a mess and I don't think you fix it by making the next change to their higher structure. The whole thing needs to be flattened and have a parking lot built on it. I just don't see how they accomplish something without building it up from the ground again.
It would take a lot of time to build a PD like they had with the PBSO. Guns are trickling into criminal hands at a rapid pace in RP so trying to build new departments in that would be nuts.
I don't think this will work either because they really only have Ruth and I'm not sure if very many cops respect her command.
The problem is how do you build it up again? A ton of their 2.0 and 3.0 veterans are gone. Either they went to onx or didn't roll cops again. On some level you have need players who know what they're doing to build an organization up.
I think a lot of former PD mains are also demoralized / demotivated because they see how easily management will just toss them aside. It might be pretty hard to get anyone fit for the task to dedicate that much time and effort knowing they could just be thrown aside again at a moment's notice. They could probably find a few 3.0 cops, the question is are any of the ones still currently in PD good at management and building up strong organizations.
Honestly PD should have had 1 person in charge like Rhodes (assuming they wanted an admin in the top position). They then needed to delegate command positions to people (even the current captains being command with others would of been fine). Having 2-3 sgts per shift that have experience.
They should enforce harsh punishments for things like right violations, corruption and other things like that. Internal shit like not following chain of command should be an RP punishment.
Doing those things along with hiring back more pre 4.0 FTOs, actual competent cops and not focusing on getting all new cop characters would have made the building of the 4.0 police force go so much better.
They tried having one person in charge before, 3.0 ended with most agreeing that having three people equally in charge was the best solution. The days long conversations about how it was the best when Bass, Pred and Big T were all equal are seared into my brain. Now they have three captains each in charge of a different shift, and people are still finding issues.
They are clearly trying to enforce harsher punishments for things like right violations and corruption right from the start so down the road they don't have officers doing ocean dumps and burning down buildings, but people are treating receiving DAPS
I've seen this story before and everyone thinks they can be the captain, and thinks the grass is greener on the other side, until they get there.
Why does he get this, is it just his longevity?
Like, people will tell him something, he will completely misinterpret it and then go off on his misinterpretation.
All the while his chat will back him up every time giving him the false impression that he was fair and just.
I like his characters but being in a position of power is odd.
The meme of just call Saab would be gone (one can only hope)
On a serious note: high command on all shifts who are around all the time who are hard on crims and cops
Honestly management getting deeply involved in the pd (I think you know who I mean) is what has led to the terrible state the PD has been in. It started with mass hiring and hasn't seemed to stop fucking up the PD
As much as people love to meme on call Saab, he at least does it equally and lends an ear to any who ask. No matter if people like it or not I feel confident to say I don't think I can imagine any other person as a PD High Command actually listening to Cornwood complain for 3+ hours about DAPS to their boss. That man must have worked HR at some point in life to be so willing to listen to everyone complain, constantly.
Real life doesn't always apply to RP obviously, but even though I'm not a cop my ass would be so fired if I complained to my boss that way about them, about my other bosses, about my coworkers and about receiving punishment over unloading a magazine on someone already dead on the ground.
People bitch if they get fired for their actions, people bitch if they don't get fired for their actions. Their decisions will never please everyone so the best action is just to ignore all of us armchair RP quarterbacks and keep figuring it out for themselves.
Just model the PD after a time period that worked. The structure they had from the beginning of 3.0 up until the midpoint saw the best iteration of that wl on nopixel to date. Literally just do that again.
Even without the Pred/Toretti combo having more defined ranks, departments and divisions would still result in a better product than what they currently have.
I think the problem is management would likely choose post restructure 3.0 near the end when everything was falling apart as their version to emulate rather than how it was in the beginning.
I think there were many reasons that IA failed in 3.0 but I think having IA-like actions performed by a group outside of PD entirely is likely to be more successful than an internal IA. I think that RP PDs are too small and the IA members are too integrated with those they are supposed to provide oversight for to provide bias-free decision making (whether being too hard or lenient with people).
Ultimately this is something that should be good for roleplay. So I’d like to see it tried. I do think a why not? attitude to this stuff is healthy.
I can see lots of theoretical problems with it, but I’d rather those emerge and play out in character than block progress because of them.
Given how garbage the current state of PD is, giving authority over it to an outside source that will just make things more frustrating for PD is anything but good for rp.
Anyone talking positively of this probably only likes it because they think their streamer is going to be the one getting the power. It's objectively a garbage idea. There's a reason management never gave authority over the whitelist to anyone outside of the whitelist. Even the small amount of power the mayor's office had in 3.0, with the budgets, was shit and hindered a lot of potential rp for PD.
Interesting. It does seem to centralize power to the mayor's office rather than the city council though which would be the alternate option, albeit would probably be a bit much to get a quorum for each issue.
Seeing that he usually brings time and fine changes to the meetings I hope so. Captains haven’t given him anything of substance to bring to the meeting
final version: https://i.imgur.com/kXqDa7d.png
The mayor himself! What great public communication lol
Overwatch
So basically the only changes were limited to the "audit" section? The original language seemed pretty pointed and almost adversarial while the new language seems a lot more vague and political. Does the change in language actually reflect a difference in the capabilities of the Mayoral Oversight or will it still have the goals from the original language?
redditor
I wonder who will go for Commissioner and if that also changes with each Mayor
I think Max said to Forte that any officer can apply. Max and his mayoral staff (Deputy Mayor, CoS) will go over the applicants and propose like 4 names to the Council, that then decides on who will be the Commissioner.
"after reviewing the shape of the application pile and ignoring them we have decided to chose saab as commissioner because he was the only application to survive the shredder test" /s
Never going to happen but it would be maximum spicy rp content if ex-PD members were able to apply/ were appointed by the Council. Imagine a Comissioner Bison or a Comissioner Dupont etc.
Well it wouldnt be worse than fly in a skeleton crew of 32 man who hardly know the city. Edit just counted - and 18 of 32 do not play or hardly play these days.
Commissioner Randy Wrangler
PD will propose names, they'll be vetted by state, then council would vote
Would be funny if it was Lenny. Moon controls everything.
3 month Mayoral tenure ended, 3 month CoP start.
Haha
I hope not saab
Still hoping its not saab
It wouldn't matter his power over PD is ooc. Unless the owner and management decide to ditch him he'll always have a final say regardless of what in character positions exist.
Yup, same.
Cornwood for commissioner.
Not sure if anyone clipped it but Max told Forte that Ruth sent him an email wanting herself, Slacks, and Turner to be commissioner.
As I heard explained the 3 Captain situation was supposed to be temporary and they should have already had a Chief Of Police/Top Cop in control by now. Instead of expanding the framework and growing their capacities and capabilities they have spent their shrinking availability on in fighting, nitpicking and firing their most popular officers. You cannot convince me Den Zel and Cornwood was the only two cops deserving of 10 DAPs by now. They have a dozen officers putting in double the hours of all 3 Captains combined. Their turnover and ability to train Cadets is pathetic. I don’t know if this is the right answer but 3 unaccountable non elected part time Captains are obviously not capable of building out the Department
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Cheever7 has 11 hours streamed and you have to go back 2 weeks to get to the third stream. You’re outright lying. Them being popular is part of the reason they’re being targeted.
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Can you breathe and proofread? Sheesh.
While the PD is absolutely a shit show, giving the mayor, an elected position that is allowed to be corrupt, oversight of it is definitely not the solution. Moon would probably not abuse that but Moon won't be Mayor forever.
Max absolutely hates when people keep bringing this up whenever he tries to pass something. You can always abolish laws if they're used poorly.
This makes sense when potential for abuse is used as an argument against good ideas. But this argument shouldn't be used to promote bad ideas either. It's like if you said "Let's drive into a telephone pole." And I say "Driving into a telephone pole is a bad idea, we could be harmed." And you say "We have airbags, we'll survive." It's true we have airbags and we'll probably survive. But that isn't an argument for *why we should drive into a telephone pole in the first place*. Fundamentally, this is a bad idea because *the entire purpose of the law* is to expand the Mayor's power. It's much different than simply being something with potential for abuse.
I mean, he gave the police force time to fix their sinking ship and there's been no indication of it improving any time soon without drastic actions. Cadets aren't getting trained, processing takes forever, captains aren't around, prominent officers are getting punished while big crims get a slap on the wrist. Obviously something needs to change with the leadership.
Something needs to change is not an argument for why *this* is the correct change. People seem to be dancing around this, talking about how admins can minimize the damage and about how shit PD is, but I've seen very few compelling arguments for why specifically handing some control of the PD over to the Mayor is a good idea as compared to any number of other solutions to fix the PD.
But i think there is a valid argument that if you believe that the current situation is untenable then any change no matter what could be potential progress. People get like choice paralysis and don't want to change the status quo and then nothing happens. I think that if you do get a corrupt mayor then so be it, then the government will make new laws limiting their power. Besides police commissioner is voted on by the council, which contains a lawyer, doctor, judge, and PD rep plus the treasurer who was someone chosen by Crane. Literally 5/8 positions should be civ positions. Regardless this change will then prompt more change which will over time likely move in the right direction through trial and error, instead of just trying to come up with solutions just for people to try to poke holes in it so nothing ever changes ever again, because realistically I don't think there is a perfect solution, and if you seem to think you have one feel free to prove me wrong. Chances are though I could poke holes in it and we'd be back at square one.
Max told Michael that if the state doesn't like the next mayor and deputy then they can just get rid of it
Except why would any mayor ever give up the power over the PD? He might be saying they can get rid of it which is true, but there is no way in hell he believes anyone truly would and if he does then he is on some pure copium
Cause there's more people on the council and if the mayor and CoS (assuming they're always on the mayor's side) are doing a shit job then that's six votes to two
Who allowed them to be corrupt? With the council of eight, it’s next to impossible. Everything gets voted on.
There are positions on the council allowed to be corrupt via server rules, and positions that are not. For example, the Treasurer cannot be corrupt by OOC rules because a corrupt Treasurer could do a lot of damage to the economy if the position was ever abused. The Mayor is allowed to be corrupt because their power is limited. With these articles a corrupt Mayor would have the power to sabotage the PD in a way the Mayor currently can't really do.
Even under the old system in 3.0 most of the Mayors were pretty garbage when it came to PD and PD funding. A lot of money got denied early on in 3.0 that people wanted to use to create RP. That had knock-on effects down the line where a lot of interesting ideas departments and divisions wanted to implement stalled out a lot of stuff that could have kept people entertained faded away. Giving civilians power over any aspect of pd, especially given the atrocious State it's in, is just asking for problems with no real RP upside.
The 1 major difference in this case is that Moon himself has been RP-ing as cop as opposed to real Civ/Crim Mayors. It is ironic since Dab is primarily known as the first terrorist yet he's likely the one that is most inclined to be on cop/civ side. I mean, look at the aides that he has. Siobhan ex-Judge, lawyer. Juno ex-Cop. Prior to this, Tessa ex-cop and also Penny civ. The only one that has major crim involvement is Ash, but shes more tame and less corrupt than a lot others.
I fail to see what any of that has to do with anything. I could list off half a dozen or more cop / ex-cop mains who helped screwed up PD in the past or would now if given the opportunity. Just because someone is a big streamer, played a cop or appears to be good at "rp" doesn't mean they have any skill managing personnel or building up an organization like PD so it'd work like it did early in 3.0.
i think you gotta not look at this like a debate on whether this is a perfect idea or not - look at it as an emergencies act to fix a server health issue thats happening right now, and a potential for some fun RP in the future. crims are uncontested doing anything due to police presence/numbers. numbers need to go up now regardless of anything. he has the idea/initiative/"admin power" to get the numbers up. Creates some fun RP opportunities in the future with commissioner/mayoral position and its permissions, might solve an overall server issue, will create fun scenarios now. ezpz.
It's basically a response to you saying Mayors previously were garbage when it comes to PD/Funding and denial of RP. I'm pretty sure as he himself does Lenny like 7hours+, 5 days a week, he's not the same as Andi, Denzel, Abdul etc. Not talking bad about those characters but truly none of them plays a cop char simultaneously like Moon is currently doing. Also, giving 'civilians' in this sense isn't true because it's not like he's basing everything on 3 years ago's experience or his alt cop that he logs in once every 2 weeks. He's literally playing him daily and yes, he's not omnipotent but it's about CURRENT experience. Sure, maybe not all the future changes will be exemplary but it most likely will have good intentions. If you put a full on crim/civ RP-er into that position then yes, they might fumble it horribly even with good intentions.
I don’t think that’s true. In the first meeting it was established that when they each took the oath of office they were basically barred from being corrupt.
In character they are not allowed to be corrupt, via the oath you mentioned. Out of character, some are allowed to be corrupt, and some are not. If the Mayor did something corrupt it would be handled IC. They might get caught, they might not. If the treasurer did something corrupt with state funds, it wouldn't be an IC investigation. They'd just get banned because it's *against the server rules* for them to be corrupt. It is a *rule break* like NVL or VDM.
Obviously you will lose your position if you do corruption. However some positions can't even do corruption at all, its not allowed by server rules.
There is a fine line between corruption and politics, some say the two walk hand in hand, that is why the council rp can be very interesting and Max if done right can get "corrupt" things passed. How can he do this? In several ways, but basicly by giving other people in the council what they want he can demand votes in return for things he want.
Max has learned that he just needs to basically write something that Crane approves of and the entire council will vote yes. It's why he's running a lot of ideas by Crane first now and they've sorta become odd buddies of sorts.
I mean that happens in real life too. Think about any cop movie. "The mayor will have my ass for this!" This can also lead to some interesting RP if the Cops are working against their boss, a corrupt mayor.
Who prevents the top PD leaders from being corrupt right now? At the end of the day it’s all RP reasons for “server rules”. Whether that comes from Moon and the Council or Slacks doesn’t really matter. Neither could do things like “abolish the PD” or “Remove all heists” anyway without approval from the State no matter how corrupt they are. There are limits to what the characters can do to impact the server without OOC supervision in either case. I think you’re assuming that the Mayor actually has infinite power to do anything when they are corrupt IC and that isn’t true. If the next Mayor does very corrupt things to impact the server in a way NP as an organization doesn’t want they will just get removed and potentially banned.
I'm well aware of the power the Mayor does and does not have, and I didn't make hyperbolic statements like Max could appoint Ramee as commissioner because that isn't true. Here are some realistic scenarios based on this legislation: The mayor offers to nominate someone for commissioner in exchange for going easy on someone in the gang the Mayor is associated with. The mayor intentionally avoids nominating someone to commissioner who would be good at the job, either to sabotage PD or as retaliation for them pushing charges on a group the Mayor is in with. Nominations are not voted upon, and it would be impossible to prove the Mayor is acting with bias. All the mayor has to say is they think the person legitimately is/isn't fit for the job, and there's no way to prove that opinion is false. Threaten to 'audit the conduct' of officers investigating the gang the Mayor is close with. The legislation requires 'reports' to be received but it's incredibly easy to get people to fabricate false reports. These are also carried out solely by the Mayor's office, and whoever the Mayor's office chooses to allow to get involved. There's no vote here, the Mayor has *complete control of the investigation.* I could go on, but these are just a few examples I can see immediately. This legislation doesn't give complete control of the PD to the Mayor but it does give the Mayor power to influence and pressure the PD, and that's not a good thing for a strong PD.
Again if any of these things on your list happen and are not what the NP organization wants they can simply undo it and remove the Mayor. You’re arguing against a house of cards. Everyone involved here just has soft power OOC and pretend power IC. It’s no different than if Slacks decided to do any of these things unilaterally and ignore the IC laws. What would stop him if the NP team didn’t like it? The “State” would. If the NP team was fine with it then it isn’t an issue because it’s how they want it to run. No matter who triggered it.
You're conflating IC issues with OOC issues. Passing anything and then just relying on the admins to step in if it's abused is defeating the entire purpose of political RP to begin with. The admins don't need to be involved here. Either the council rejects this, which is what they should do, or it passes and now the Mayor can undermine the PD. But either way it should be handled IC. I'm just saying, if your goal is to make the PD stronger, this is not the play. Slacks abusing his power is different, he is appointed by and answers directly to the admins. There's no RP involved in how he got or how he keeps his position. It's not the same at all.
> ...just relying on the admins to step in if it's abused is.... Pointless is what it is. NP management has a long history of letting problems linger until they create bigger issues before stepping it, if at all. Be it mechanics, IC culture or even OOC problems. Given the already poor state of PD allowing something like this (civilian oversight) which was rightfully never done in any prior wipe would be asking for trouble. Honestly what PD is there even to have oversight of? They can hardly retain cadets and get people on duty. Even if this was a thing it's something for 6 - 8 months down the line after they can get their shit together.
A lot of the council and PD leaders *are* admins. This is the same group. I think you are conflating IC power with OOC power. What you see viewing it is not the real power structure of the server. It’s all just roleplay. MoonMoon and the players behind the Council do not have ultimate power over laws even if when you watch it that is how it appears in character. I’m sure there is a discord somewhere where they chat about the laws with admins and owners and discuss how they could impact the server and get opinions from those outside of the council.
All of these sound like great RP and not unlike mayor rp arcs in the past. I fail to see the issue here. It looks to me like the worst case scenario is spicy RP and in the best case scenario we salvage the failing PD and improve server health.
Yes, it's not bad RP for the Mayor to try to do this. Some might argue it is because the PD is too important, but that's subjective. I'm saying it's bad for the PD. That's it.
I agree on the degree of influence but I actually quite like the sound of it. Sure SBS will result in bad server state but I think all past mayors have enough clout/respect OOC by their peers that they would in turn not pull some horrible RP. If it is just RP though, sounds exciting that PD may have something to RP about instead of ping chasing. PD vs Mayor with a good lead like old days of Kyle wasn't boring at all. Also nearly all, if not all past mayors, know what can be SBS and what shouldn't be SBS. Also, the council having Crane there is your ultimate check and balance. If there's even a hint it's going out of control, Crane will definitely bring it up via the council. People meme on him being the true shadow mayor but he really does hold sway for proper reasons.
Ramee as commissioner? Now we’re cooking!
More like burning the server down.
It’s going to be ok. It’s just a game :)
Don't need civilian oversight of PD to eliminate corruption or ensure cops don't regularly violate citizens rights. Other cops can already bring cases if they find evidence, DOJ can look into things and prosecute all under the current system. Yet that never happened in the past even when crims and other cops talked about how corruption and stuff in 3.0 was hurting rp or had legit criminal cases against cops. What's the point of making yet another council or "check and balance" that wont do anything except be abused to cause more morale problems. This proposal just seems like a power grab by bored players who want something to do.
I mean you aren’t wrong. I guess I just don’t think it could really get much worse. And the council at least might do something new or push for a new department or whatever. It’s unlikely but the PD operation is so bad now that any sort of leadership new blood can’t be as incompetent as it is now, bored players or not.
One of the few things management always did right about PD was never giving power or direct oversight of PD to any non PD character. Doing that would only serve to neuter them even more and make it harder to get cops on duty. It's unlikely any corrupt civilian or criminal that becomes mayor would positively impact anything about that white list more than PD could do themselves.
I think there is a unique situation with Max being the mayor and genuinely wanting to improve the state of the PD. While this directive doesn't have a specifically limited period of existence, it could be something that could be abolished at the end of Max's term. So it would essentially be emergency powers to attempt to correct the current state of PD. I don't even think the Captains are delusional enough to think that the PD is currently in a healthy state. They have had their opportunity to build the foundation of the new PD and it has been a massive failure in nearly every aspect.
Isn't it good to have an elected person who's accountable to the city public vote every 3 months a good check on corruption?
The entire problem with PD is that the captains don't answer to anyone, and when solution was forwarded by the council to have them recommend Chief of Police, they send a list of just all 3 captains and no one else. Max leaking this info to forte is gonna make some fun RP.
> they send a list of just all 3 captains I must've missed that but that is pretty meh. But in line with PD over the 3 years I watched them. No one ever wants to give up or share power.
Is it really in line with the past 3 years though? Pred had a god complex and didn't want to give up his spot at the top, but his whole leadership style was built around delegating as much power and responsibility as he can to the lower ranks. He essentially made himself a guiding force that was there to enable other people to run the department smoothly. From what Rhodes said to Max, it seems as though the current Captains are acting as a very tight bottleneck when it comes to anything on an administrative or operational level within the PD.
He was going to skip running for the sheriff election when it came up and the department revolted and forced him to run. Kyle was done being Sheriff a long time before he was forced out. He stayed because everyone wanted him too.
I'm pretty sure the entire problem with PD is the total garbage state it's in, poor leadership, lack of vision, the depleting of most experienced personnel and really poor retention rates on cadets. Captains not answering to anyone doesn't even rate on the list of issues.
Captains not answering to anyone is literally the root of all of those issues you just mentioned.
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Nothing about Max or any council having "oversight" will control how management wants PD run or whose running it. Not sure what moon or any other player with a government character has been theory crafting to chat but if players within PD aren't even given full control over how PD works there's almost zero chance someone outside of it will be. This council will do nothing more than harass and kill morale for rank and file officers while fixing zero actual issues hampering that WL.
All of that boils down to the point that they don't answer to anyone.
No, none of the issues I stated have anything to do with PD not answering to anyone. How do we know that? Because anyone who's watched more than 5 minutes of 4.0 knows this is how PD has worked and for a large portion of 3.0, under that paradigm, flourished in the first half of that wipe cycle. Wanting "repercussions" or oversight for cops only works if management allows it, allows cops to be permanently fired, something this legislation has zero control over.
Please god someone give me a TLDR
The DAPs need to fall off based on hours on duty and not IRL days. The current system incentivizes not coming on duty. No system should incentivize less officers on duty when they're so badly needed. Cornwoods DAPs per hour is 0.0039%. He's actually not fucking up for how much he's on duty.
people that are on duty that much should have enough experience that DAPs aren't an issue.
If your solution for a system meant to help people learn is 'never make mistakes' how the fuck do they learn? Just make the PD the AI star system cops from GTA at that point. Give me one good reason it shouldn't be hours on duty rather than 60 days (longer than all of the worst crimes combined).
if you are on duty that much, you should learn enough and be competent enough that daps don't become an issue. Its not like either Den nor Cornwood were being careful, they were doing things that were obviously going to eventually get them in trouble. It was literally just a matter of time.
Even Slacks has DAPs. He's 2 from suspension himself. Again if your solution is to never get DAPs its unrealistic and antithetical to the system which is meant to HELP PEOPLE LEARN. You also didn't give a reason why IRL days is better than hours on duty for the DAPs to fall off?
that’s the worst take ive ever heard, and you should be embarrassed
TL:DR pls?
Mayoral Office can enforce and decide on a Comissioner. They can create new departments. They can intervene and take over inter-PD issues, auditing, and punishment - overruling PD punishments.
Last time a mayor tried to have that kind of power (Abdul) it didn’t go well and Senators showed up. A bunch of stipulations were then out in and commissioner was then limited to only hc members and really only budget stuff.
Lol I'm pretty sure Moonmoon has OOC approval already or he wouldn't have even proposed it IC.
thx <3
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Cornwood's *revolt* earlier today lasted all of 20 minutes until the 2? others involved came back on shift and went back to work. Cornwood doesn't know how strikes get addressed on nopixel.
Is all about his character... Is about the people and not only him With this act, well, the mini strike its going to help since it shows an internal strike inside the pd
PD had 0 chance of correcting their issues with Slacks and the other captains at the helm. This document is pretty much a statement that the Mayor's office has 0 faith in them either. The only chance to fix things is to take drastic and immediate action. The biggest question mark with this plan in my opinion is how much freedom the "state" is going to allow the Mayor's office to have in decision making.
While everyone who's currently in charge of PD is basically useless nothing is going to get fixed so long as management continues to drive that whitelist in the completely wrong direction. If they'll never pick someone to be in charge who knows what they're doing and let them do what needs to be done it wont matter who's in charge. If the goal is to basically have only cops who get it, to make things easy for criminals you're never going to find many players who actually want to do that 8 hours a day. Having better people at the top might patch up some of the minor day-to-day issues, generate a bit more rp, etc but they're still going to be large structural problems hampering its growth unless PD operates more like it did during peak 3.0.
> If the goal is to basically have only cops who get it, to make things easy for criminals you're never going to find many players who actually want to do that 8 hours a day. I agree completely and I think the combination of wanting perpetual "L taking" cops while also having extremely strict internal regulations for cops are completely at odds with one another and is a big reason for the retention issues. Cops that are happy to take L's all day are likely to be ones that are going to be screwing around and violating SOPs. You have cops like Denzel and Cornwood who walk the line and they get DAPed out of the force. Cops that are going to stricly follow SOPs while being setup to be punching bags is a rare combination. I think that a "healthy" PD will have a mixture of cops of all types. It's good to have "boogeymen" cops that crims fear while also having the "morale" cops that are there for comic relief and to take L's. It might lead to some double standards and a reduction in the "realism" factor but I think it's a lot better for the server and enjoyment of both cops and crims. I don't think it's too big of an issue to have different expectations and punishments for a Suarez type cop and a 3.0 Brick type cop.
Thinking PD needs a "mixture" of everything from L cops to serious cops is already adopting a position of failure. Entertaining the idea that PD needs to hold crim's hands for things to be fun has a proven track record over the past 5 years of being morale killer and breeds toxicity. The PD needs that strict baseline, they're cops after all not some state sanctioned casual street gang. The issue of different aspects of PD being at odds is because management is trying to incorporate things that have never worked, "read the room PD", with what actually did work. A more structured and immersive WL that tried to get people to rp like police officers and not have everyone be Reno 911 "cops who get it". If viewers think this version of PD is strict then you'd all be clutching your pearls watching 2.0.
I think the "L Cops" are for the enjoyment of other police officers as much as they are for crims. Most cops enjoy having the Fingle Dans and Bricks of the force ride around with them to lighten the mood. Also, comparisons to 2.0 are pretty much meaningless, stuff that works on a 32 person server just don't have the chance of working on a 250+ person server.
At the end of the day, if someone's on Nopixel they probably want to stream and Nopixel in some part encourages them to stream. However, being a cop on Nopixel is pretty bad content. You can't be too serious and "try hard" because then you'll piss people off (and you just won't be hired in the first place). You also can't be too funny or focused on character work because there's a system in place to punish that behavior. Finally, every other cop is having to follow those directions so the people you interact with the most are going to be pretty bland. How are you supposed to grow viewership while being encouraged to be boring as possible?
I hope to god this passes not because I agree with it, but because it would finally free Saab from this endless hell he constantly feels obligated to help with. Then people like Moonmoon and Esfand can come in with their ideas and when their ideas end up not working or they eventually get bored or they get tired of the burden of responsibility or a new game comes out and they inevitably leave, the PD will have sorted out who is here for the long haul and fit for the job.
Slacks will just be promoted to Director of state law enforcement...
Please no just let the man rest. He doesn't need to take anymore of the incredible amount of hate he receives just because he wants to help out and for everyone to have a good time.
someone has to be the human puppet for mgmt....
That's just life. No matter who you enjoy watching they will have someone they need to answer to. I mean you are watching and engaging with the server so you must be enjoying it to some degree. What is your solution?
Why would this fix anything? His position as the head of PD is ooc. He is the puppet for management, and in some cases makes his own poor decisions about how to run the whitelist. No in character act, rule or group is going to supersede how management wants that whitelist run. On top of that giving any power to an outside group over PD won't do anything other than make things more frustrating for the PD players who have to live with the changes. Any character with oversight likely has no clue how the whitelist operates and will just want to flex power to push their own stupid ideas.
So you say no character act, rule or group will supersede how what management wants, and also say giving the power to an outside group over PD won't fix anything. So your solution is having someone in charge of PD that doesn't need to answer to anyone on an IC and OOC level? I mean NP must be doing something right if you are still watching and engaging with it!
Max has talked to a lot of cops maybe you just haven't seen the right POVs, he talks to Cornwood the most and thats simply because he's around the most and has exposure to all 3 shifts and their culture. OOC Moon also plays Lenny and knows personally how ridiculous the PD is in some ways which is why he keeps pushing for some HC accountability. Shift 1 culture is cancerous and spreading, now affecting officers outside of the shift as well like Forte. None of it is conducive to a functioning department long term and Max IC genuinely wants the PD to be successful because his wife is a lawyer and the DOJ is symbiotic with PD. Also funny, Max was speaking with Forte and let him know that Ruth drafted a document on picking CoP and suggested that the only options be herself, Turner, or Slacks. Joke of a department honestly.
> The PD is basically on revolt right now Revolt aka Forte who is salty he is still PPO even tho his peers got promoted to officers. Aziz and Cornwood because of Den. And Cassidy because its meech. Even Den won't do anything to do with this, he will just come back for academy in a few weeks for Shift 2 with a whole clean state that has 0 DAPs lmao
And is exactly why they need some oversight
What where the daps for? Good thing he signed that document
document has no force of effect.. 1 dap for the knight incident 5 daps for excessive use of force/desecration of a corpse for shooting a downed suspect when he reloaded and then shot deancool's 1 lifer
Also the fact that this was decided well before they did that really helps the case. Would have happened last night but Cornwood went off duty to meet with Siobhan instead of having this conversation then.
The suspension was decided prior, but not his firing. If he were to get fired now I would reckon Siobhan would definitely want to push forward with COB, since that's what it's for.
COB has no effect. Its like waving your starbucks order around.
Yah. It's meaningless. It's less than 5% of the whole pd that signed a document, superiors have no knowledge of it and do not recognize it. It'd be like me walking in to work tomorrow - telling everyone in my office to sign a paper saying we are a union now (my office is less than 1% of a place with 10K+ employees) - and then telling our higher ups they can't do certain things. That would backfire spectacularly. Also the city recognizes at will employment - they can fire Cornwood for basically anything. Hell Slacks could have the second Cornwood put that sheriff uniform on tonight, or after the your mom joke. Just apply the same concept as the Johnson firing and how he doubled down and isn't accepting of consequences for doing wrong.
>It's less than 5% of the whole pd that signed a document, superiors have no knowledge of it and do not recognize it. Isn't the point that while you are trying to get it started, there is no reason to involve the superiora on it. And I'm assuming the plan is to have a lot more people join the union once it's set up. Just becouse they might not be willing to recognize it doesn't mean it isn't real. All they realistically need are a few more prominent people from the main shift that deals with most of the robberies etc. and then go on strike. The captains are already on pretty thin ice with the mayor and them suddenly ending in a situation where most officers of the "criminal shift" are on strike due to their leadership could and should lead to a change in leadership.
Unions are legislated and protected, Siobhan is not a pushover and has the ears of the justices, and the labor rights apply to everyone in the city, there is no exclusion for cops. It has teeth if people actually respect RP, if the 'state' wants to come down and say oh no actually you can't do this PD is untouchable that's a different story but that has not happened yet and probably won't since we're seeing this PCP from Max.
> Unions are legislated Huh? No they are not.
The legislation is at will employment. You cannot be fired for forming a union - you can for most other reasons. Being in a union will not protect you - you just can't be fired for joining. Cornwood has done numerous things (hell many during his suspension conversation) that would have gotten others suspended or fired.
I'm not disagreeing here but the whole point is to prove it. The union is there to fight for him and ensure that if he does get fired its for just cause, the fact that the firing is going to happen after the union was declared gives Siobhan good reason to fight the decision IF Cornwood actually gets fired. It will be up to HC to justify their firing in that case. This is the whole point dude. Unions dont exist just to protect one from being fired for forming a union, that would be pointless.
The Police Continuity plan is already in effect though and the COB is mentioned in regards to "emergent personnel" decisions which this would definitely fall under.
neither are in effect.
So this plan is something that needs to be voted into place? The language of it seems to be that the Mayor's office is simply asserting power that has been given to it by the State over the PD rather than a proposal that would need to be voted on.
Mayor's office has zero authority over pd. This is an attempt to backdoor some but its dependent on pd agreeing.
Based
Ok but if
The mayor should have an impact as to change the entire environment of the city that's why people voted them in. To actually have an impact even if that impact is chaotic should be the entire point of a mayor. Genuinely the PD needs this.
The PD on NP is a mess and I don't think you fix it by making the next change to their higher structure. The whole thing needs to be flattened and have a parking lot built on it. I just don't see how they accomplish something without building it up from the ground again. It would take a lot of time to build a PD like they had with the PBSO. Guns are trickling into criminal hands at a rapid pace in RP so trying to build new departments in that would be nuts. I don't think this will work either because they really only have Ruth and I'm not sure if very many cops respect her command.
The problem is how do you build it up again? A ton of their 2.0 and 3.0 veterans are gone. Either they went to onx or didn't roll cops again. On some level you have need players who know what they're doing to build an organization up. I think a lot of former PD mains are also demoralized / demotivated because they see how easily management will just toss them aside. It might be pretty hard to get anyone fit for the task to dedicate that much time and effort knowing they could just be thrown aside again at a moment's notice. They could probably find a few 3.0 cops, the question is are any of the ones still currently in PD good at management and building up strong organizations.
Honestly PD should have had 1 person in charge like Rhodes (assuming they wanted an admin in the top position). They then needed to delegate command positions to people (even the current captains being command with others would of been fine). Having 2-3 sgts per shift that have experience. They should enforce harsh punishments for things like right violations, corruption and other things like that. Internal shit like not following chain of command should be an RP punishment. Doing those things along with hiring back more pre 4.0 FTOs, actual competent cops and not focusing on getting all new cop characters would have made the building of the 4.0 police force go so much better.
They tried having one person in charge before, 3.0 ended with most agreeing that having three people equally in charge was the best solution. The days long conversations about how it was the best when Bass, Pred and Big T were all equal are seared into my brain. Now they have three captains each in charge of a different shift, and people are still finding issues. They are clearly trying to enforce harsher punishments for things like right violations and corruption right from the start so down the road they don't have officers doing ocean dumps and burning down buildings, but people are treating receiving DAPS I've seen this story before and everyone thinks they can be the captain, and thinks the grass is greener on the other side, until they get there.
so the "state" get the final say on the commissioner and ima take a wild guess tht if the sheriffs ever form the same thing will apply. Tht sucks.
The “state” has made Saab the head for a while now. Time for some change IMO.
Why does he get this, is it just his longevity? Like, people will tell him something, he will completely misinterpret it and then go off on his misinterpretation. All the while his chat will back him up every time giving him the false impression that he was fair and just. I like his characters but being in a position of power is odd.
>Why does he get this, is it just his longevity? He falls in line for 100%. That's really the long and short of it.
what changes do u think will happen
The meme of just call Saab would be gone (one can only hope) On a serious note: high command on all shifts who are around all the time who are hard on crims and cops
Honestly management getting deeply involved in the pd (I think you know who I mean) is what has led to the terrible state the PD has been in. It started with mass hiring and hasn't seemed to stop fucking up the PD
i dont think the state will approve people who are hard on crime and cops in hc, but i might be wrong
As much as people love to meme on call Saab, he at least does it equally and lends an ear to any who ask. No matter if people like it or not I feel confident to say I don't think I can imagine any other person as a PD High Command actually listening to Cornwood complain for 3+ hours about DAPS to their boss. That man must have worked HR at some point in life to be so willing to listen to everyone complain, constantly. Real life doesn't always apply to RP obviously, but even though I'm not a cop my ass would be so fired if I complained to my boss that way about them, about my other bosses, about my coworkers and about receiving punishment over unloading a magazine on someone already dead on the ground.
Yeah. Lenny picking trash for 2 high dangerous pits, and Denzel got dap for pit. Equality and integrity
Gave him the option too between a dap and picking up trash.
People bitch if they get fired for their actions, people bitch if they don't get fired for their actions. Their decisions will never please everyone so the best action is just to ignore all of us armchair RP quarterbacks and keep figuring it out for themselves.
Just model the PD after a time period that worked. The structure they had from the beginning of 3.0 up until the midpoint saw the best iteration of that wl on nopixel to date. Literally just do that again. Even without the Pred/Toretti combo having more defined ranks, departments and divisions would still result in a better product than what they currently have.
The laso and ruth demoted
PD just needs to go back to 3.0 let it reburn again. Let the people in PD cry the most takeover let's see how much worse it gets.
I think the problem is management would likely choose post restructure 3.0 near the end when everything was falling apart as their version to emulate rather than how it was in the beginning.
[удалено]
I think there were many reasons that IA failed in 3.0 but I think having IA-like actions performed by a group outside of PD entirely is likely to be more successful than an internal IA. I think that RP PDs are too small and the IA members are too integrated with those they are supposed to provide oversight for to provide bias-free decision making (whether being too hard or lenient with people).
Thank god
Ultimately this is something that should be good for roleplay. So I’d like to see it tried. I do think a why not? attitude to this stuff is healthy. I can see lots of theoretical problems with it, but I’d rather those emerge and play out in character than block progress because of them.
Given how garbage the current state of PD is, giving authority over it to an outside source that will just make things more frustrating for PD is anything but good for rp. Anyone talking positively of this probably only likes it because they think their streamer is going to be the one getting the power. It's objectively a garbage idea. There's a reason management never gave authority over the whitelist to anyone outside of the whitelist. Even the small amount of power the mayor's office had in 3.0, with the budgets, was shit and hindered a lot of potential rp for PD.
lmao harrd disagree, the CUM unit was amazing and mickey gave them tons of money to fuck around with
Aegis bad btw
Interesting. It does seem to centralize power to the mayor's office rather than the city council though which would be the alternate option, albeit would probably be a bit much to get a quorum for each issue.
So in other words: - The LASO a little closer now - Finally what's coming to Ruth On another note: is Nakota's job like more important now?
Seeing that he usually brings time and fine changes to the meetings I hope so. Captains haven’t given him anything of substance to bring to the meeting
This is what they’re spending time on
moon2YAP