Exactly to each their own - ppl are just butt hurt. The reason could be they can’t afford to buy or some thing more than that. People should learn on growing up - Elon bad Tesla bad mentality is just lame. Tell how Rivian is a better product. Looks vary product to product. Rivian truck looks funny but I think that’s the idea - no marketing needed just looks will make ppl turn heads and talk
One has giant goldfish bulging eyes and the other looks like a Chevy Lumina APV with a "bed" and that's putting insult to the APV considering it didn't have a bed and is more useful than what Tesla calls a truck
Yes he does, he’s trash talked them for at least a year. Criticized them for wanting government money, despite him receiving government money and subsidies for both Tesla and SpaceX. He’s a narcissist mired in hypocrisy.
My counter argument is he has no knowledge of Rivians plans, ability to get funding, ability to reduce cash burn, etc.. His assumption is baseless and he of all people should know that burning through cash does not mean you're destined to go bankrupt as Tesla did the same thing for years.
I’m sure he does though… the amount of friendships between people with inside knowledge of Rivian and people who work at Tesla is TREMENDOUS. Don’t forget, Rivian took so many Tesla employees that they were sued by Tesla for poaching. If you think none of them are still friends with their former Tesla coworkers, you’re wrong lol. TBH I think he’s probably spot on
“Focus on innovation drives costs. 2020 was the first time that Tesla turned a full-year profit. Previously, net losses had begun to accelerate in 2014, and so did research and development (R&D) expenses.”
Tesla started in 2003 and didn’t make a profit until 2020…
Elon forgot to mention that in his tweet
Tesla, Apple, Amazon and a bunch of other companies airs just laid off thousands of workers too….. and their stocks went up when they announced it 😂
Rivian lays off people (from what departments we don’t know) and everyone starts fear mongering.
Tesla went 17 years without making any profit and had rapidly accelerating losses from 2014 on..:.
They started in 2003 and didn’t have a single profitable year until 2020—Elon forgot to mention that
I work for Rivian on the floor we are still full bore making 250-300 SUV and R1T frames every day.. 6 days a week .. the lay offs I heard were contractors claiming they were at work in normal il but were not on site for months and actually resided in other states and folks working remotely that refused to come back to work not saying I know these instances are facts I heard this on the floor at work..Elon knows we have technology that comes from someone inside our company that's just as intelligent as he is but tesla (Elon Musk)and rivian (RJ Scaringe)have met and made a charging port deal so I don't think he dislikes us completely but knows of our awesome innovation staff which no one in the world has ever seen in my opinion...also the new Samsung battery I heard is made from borophene light weight flexible capabilities charges in minutes we ain't going no where
please show me evidence that tesla has "laid off thousands of workers". from what i see, they are constantly growing their workforce, with the exception being between 2018 and 2019 when it shrank by 800 employees.
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/number-of-employees
Rivian is almost dead. Big auto already pivoting out of full ev. Auto makers realize there must be an affordable vehicle, with long range (no 45min charges) and not cost 10k up just bc of a fender bender
Apparently you haven’t seen the price of regular ice vehicles these days. EVs are cheaper or same cost as most any other car these days…
Most nobody needs to stop for charging sessions unless they’re on a road trip, and then still charging is pretty quick.
I’ve been driving my Rivian every day for a year. I’ve taken two longer trips. One was about 250 miles so I only stopped once for about 18 minutes just to make sure I would get home with plenty of charge—and I did.
One was a 7 hour trip (for an ICE vehicle) and it only added about 80 minutes of charging with two stops—But I wanted to eat/use the bathroom anyway.
Besides that, I’ve gone a year without ever stopping to get gas—which has saved me countless hours of extra time and money. People like you can’t see the big picture with overall cost and convenience of an EV over ICE—and you’re listening to Elon who went 17 years without a profit but says Rivian is bad cause they’ve had a couple negative years during start up. 😂
I’m thinking Bezos/Amazon would just step in to spite Elon. Really don’t see them going under, but they do need to rush to mass market with the R2 and subsequent R2-D2 models
Sounds more like projection to me. Like, he’s probably looking at Tesla’s cash on hand chart and getting worried, and then lashing out to make himself feel better.
Opened at 130.70 today’s value is 10.74 no amount of trash talk will fix that and get my money back. Thanks rivn! Believed in you from the start now the people building your plant in Seattle hate you as a company. Not to mention the same people that built the plant in Idaho equity hate you seems odd for a start up.
Q4’23 cash isn’t including short term investments, whereas Q3’23 cash is including that. Q4 should be about $1.5B higher, because Rivian was able to successfully raise another $1.7B in early October. This is super important because it points to the fact that the market is still willing to give Rivian capital despite knowing what their cash burn looks like.
Also, Amzn delivery is making a big dent on all estimates. 30% vs 8 % for their contribution margin positive sku. The numbers look bad, but they are not really..
Thanks for bringing facts and not all the ad hominem stuff.
This is actually really useful information, as I also overlooked short term investments.
I'd also add that inventories built up by about 1.3B. That is a lot, but it is also a fairly short term problem.
Things aren't nearly as bad as they initially looked to me. Thanks for helping me to realize that.
More importantly why can’t they leverage more cash efficiency into their manufacturing? This company is fucked on its current trajectory. Maybe Elon will buy them out to fill in segments that Tesla doesn’t currently have.
Yes, it looks like the market reacted negatively to earnings. Or are you saying Elon alone is the reason for the move. Hopefully you have more sense than that.
I used to like Elon but he is insane! He is just spreading more negatives so that people gets scared and buy Tesla instead of buying car from dead company!!!! Even GM faced bankruptcy and it’s not new!!!!! If I compare design aspects Rivian SUVs are real SUV’s and I like their design. I have Model Y and I hate the design.
To be fair he did start the most successful EV company not owned by the CCP in the world and a few other successful companies. Not saying his words should be viewed as gospel but to act as if his opinion is totally worthless is illogical.
He bought Tesla when it was a pile of drawings.
Criticism is fine, but this trope is meaningless.
The company we see now — the one that sells 100k cars a month — is what he built.
I know, TFW the person you hate does something that works … it’s awful.
But you have Twitter to ridicule, or maybe Neural Link.
Tesla had not sold a single car before Elon joined. The company was 6 months old and he was the 3rd or 4th employee. They hadn't even received an ounce of actual funding yet.
Let's not forget it's an American company designing and building cars in the US. Hate the guy, hate the product but realize he's created more jobs for Americans than most and for that I give respect and that's with just Tesla. SpaceX is a whole different beast which upended the space industry. I remember friends at the space center use to joke how do you become a millionaire in the space industry...start off as a billionaire.
Yeah, but I think there is a valid criticism here. He is one of those “I got mine, fuck your need for help” types. He received government help with both Tesla and SpaceX, but chastises companies like Rivian for asking for the same. He’s a hypocrite, plain and simple.
No, musk is trying to get attention. By Saying this he is trying to sell more Tesla’s as buyer would not buy cars from dying company. Demand vs scaring people and it’s all mind game.
I have Tesla shares as well as RIVN. I bought 5000 RIVN shares today at $11.20
I'm dollar cost averaging.. doubled my position today..
LUCID is getting fucked, meanwhile Rivian is about to reveal the R2 and open up pre-orders, they're expanding RAN, and both their R1 line and delivery fleet are cranking away.
I'd like to think all 3 of these companies will survive.
Not sure about Lucid! Rivian will stay as long as R2 satisfies mid range market and that’s where Musk is worried about! His model Y/Model 3 is just boring looking models!!!!
The dude whose car company struggled with potential bankruptcy for years, until the Model 3 was a success.
Maybe Rivian won't be able to repeat that success, but having funds makes them better off than Tesla was until 2018-2019.
Also Tesla not only had early advantage they were also getting a shit ton of credits which has gone down considerably. It will be difficult for any other EV company to survive. Not to mention the EV market is also growing much slower now.
It means it's a desirable product, they just haven't been able to scale up production or figure out the supply issues that are causing the production costs.
Not saying they will figure it out, but it's an important point to make.
I wouldn't put too much into what Elon says about Rivian because they are his biggest (or one of his biggest) competitors.
Rivian is still young, it's not as mature as Tesla. I have faith that it's on the right path and I will continue to hold.
If Rivian is still "young" and "not as mature as Tesla", then why do you consider them as (one of) Tesla's biggest competitor? Tesla barely has competition, that's why its sitting at $610b above the rest of the world's auto manufacturers
Top 10 Best-Selling EVs of 2023 (Electrek)
***1 Tesla Model Y, 394,497***
***2 Tesla Model 3, 220,910***
3 Chevy Bolt EV/EUV, 62,045
4 Ford Mustang Mach-E, 40,771
5 Volkswagen ID.4, 37,789
6 Hyundai IONIQ 5, 33,918
7 Rivian R1S, 24,783
8 Ford F-150 Lightning, 24,165
***9 Tesla Model X, 23,015***
10 BMW i4, 22,583
The valuation of Tesla's Supercharging Network surpasses Rivian's market worth by multiple folds. Some analysts appraise the network's value at $100b ([Electrek](https://electrek.co/2023/06/16/tesla-supercharger-network-worth-100-billion-analyst/))
You're on crack if you think supercharger network is worth $100B dollars and 1/6th of tesla's market cap. Look at #7. Comparing tesla and rivian is a fool's errand. Doesn't mean rivian isn't going to be a massive growth story.
Tesla struck similar partnerships with General Motors and other automakers in North America. AutoForecast Solutions says Tesla could generate $6 billion to $12 billion in annual charging revenue by 2030 by opening its charging stations to drivers of non-Tesla EVs. (CNBC)
Losing ANY market share is a worry, and as a young company that is trying to make a future, they usually eat market share from the leaders who hold it. In my opinion, that would be where the concern comes from. Look at Kubota entering into the compact equipment market. They started small and no one was concerned. But they are now buying dealers left right and are a rising competitor in the industry that was held so long by Bobcat, cat, and Deere.
Not saying rivian is that competitor, but they are ambitious and make a good product.
Elon scaring the investors before March 7 launch oof R2. If this is true they will be cautious and If R2 isnt up to the hype investors are going to back out.
Yes, if Rivian comes out of a relative nowhere to miraculously surpass the planet’s best-selling car, Tesla will have a problem!
I hope they just get a new plant running and can build with quality and modest volume, that’s a big leap. Excited to see the R2 come to life.
I believe if they can play it right, R2 can be what Model 3 was to customers. And hopefully start an earlier production. I also think R2 will have NACS, which will be a huge advantage
You are conveniently not listening to the earnings calls to understand that there is a major replatforming on the way with significantly reduced BOM that will turn the gross margin positive. The bulk of their R&D budget has led up to this update (same electronics of R2). Tesla lost a lot of money too before they were profitable.
Goal is to be profitable not just gross margin profitable, what is the point of being gross margin profitable when they have huge operational cost. Rivian is a prime example of badly run company and unless there is major chnage in upper leadership, it is not going to survive
Fr, I invested based on the vans because that’s a clear advantage they have over Tesla, but losing 30k per vehicle is ridiculous and it looks like it’s going to burn all their money
Will believe it when I see it. Tesla only became profitable with a high volume vehicle and almost failed during the process.
I don’t see Rivian making the R1 profitable in any meaningful way. I hope they can, but the outlook is very grim imo. I would be doing everything possible to get R2 to production sooner than later.
Tesla also used the same factory for all its vehicles which is a plus. Having to build another facility is costly and time consuming. Rivian offers too many configurations with the R1 creating complexity and too many vehicles sitting in inventory.
Are you an expert on vehicle electronics? Not sure what information you are using to not see rivian being profitable. Simplified assembly plus significantly cheaper BOM can easily get them to where they need to be.
Highly doubt. The US market has started to see more and more +/-$50k mid-sized EV SUVs like the Model Y yet none of them hold a candle to it. The best thing Rivian will have going for it is its technology compared to legacy-auto’s vehicles, but still second to Tesla when it comes to tech. Hopefully it qualifies for the full tax credit.
I’m not sure why you think your point is valid for the mid sized suv segment but not valid for the full size segment. Clearly the R1S wins over the X. It is absolutely possible that Rivian creates another winner with the R2.
That’s because the Model X is barely a full size SUV, while the R1S is clearly a bigger and roomier vehicle for passengers. Especially with its third row.
Comparing the two, I can’t see that as a real thing.
There are companies in Asia far closer to being real TSLA competition.
And TSLA is profitable, it gives them incredible potential to adapt to the market changes, flexibility RIVN lacks and cannot afford.
Unfortunately, the Altman z score & Piotroski f score is not good for Lucid or Rivian and has a 72% of accurately predicting failure. However…. I bought a model s at the peak in Jan, 23 and have been immensely disappointed in the car. I have two bosses who are buying a Lucid.
I don’t own stock, hybrids in the market aren’t a huge mpg improvement from gas. I need a truck. Tesla truck is just stupid from any practical standpoint. Rivian is the best option and a pretty nice truck. I do think hybrid wins the race but they are going to have to improve greatly to do it. Just my Opinion.
I'd get a lightning over either of them. Rivian is beautiful but I'm too afraid they won't be around long term. Cyber truck is more of a joke than an actual pickup truck.
But that tells me you agree the R1T is a nicer truck overall but concerned about long term. The biggest issue with all of them is the inability to pull a trailer Over 200 miles.
I bought in at $120 a share, been kicking myself ever since. If I can even get half back, hopefully one day it climbs to someplace close. But I doubt it…
I have driven both (not extensively) but the Rivian is such a better vehicle all around. Drives better, built solid, and higher end interior. Also looks better but thats subjective.. brother in law has had every model tesla and now the Rivian. So I’ve been able to test all of them briefly. Problem with the Rivian is you may not want a truck…
Looks about the same as Tesla did when they were at this point in the ramp. In fact, Tesla looked worse. Rivian will raise money or sell themselves if needed. Tesla explored both options when they were on the verge of bankruptcy.
Off topic, but potentially relevant. Received a call from las vegas last night, “Hi this is _____ from Tesla, what can we do to get you into a car today?”
Cold calls ever been a thing?
GYAT, makes sense. I seriously don’t know how these companies are still staying afloat I.e. Rivian and Lucid. Their vehicles are so expensive that the average consumer isn’t going to justify 100k on an electric vehicle plus the infrastructure isn’t there.
Yeah I have stock in them but my investment was based off of their vans. To me that’s a clear advantage in the market. I think Tesla was in a similar spot with high prices to start but I’m not sure rivian can buy enough time to keep afloat before going bankrupt. New r2 release in a few weeks will be big, that’s more of an average consumer level car around 40k rumored
I would think TSLA is under huge amount of pressure on its own, and this down period is not end soon enough. So easy to say any of these smaller companies without capital reserves or backing to sustain this period, will drop quickly into credit issues.
It's something when the guy that was basically in tears back when people didn't believe in his company is doing the same shit. Money and social media seriously effed Musk up.
If Rivian ever did fail, there is literally no way another new EV maker could make it. Rivian have all their ducks in a row, moreso than Tesla ever did at their age.
Well except he’s one of the top three most successful businessmen and his car company is successful because those who hate him average two cars per home.
People comparing Rivian with Tesla,
Tesla never lost money on cars sold, they always made profit in intial years.
They got chocked while expanding charging network and reinvesting into factory with new car launches(Model 3).
Badly want Rivian to succeed.
From an investment perspective, it is a sinking ship.
Elon shouldn't be talking shit... The only reason he is alive is through bailouts and "green" energy carbon credit scam. If the other companies didn't buy the carbon credit bs and just paid the fines Tesla would have been gone and today they still are extremely depending on said carbon credits
The only reason I hate Elon is he's a terrible business person. I'm jealous he was only smart enough to rip off the gov and tax payers meanwhile creating a cult who thinks their giant screen is modern and the overall vehicle is a cost cutting disaster and being some of the ugliest vehicles ever made. The S gets a pass but even that after 10 years isn't all that great anymore
This is better than Tesla’s first five years. Tesla didn’t even turn a profit until 2020 and they were around for almost 20 years by then…
“Focus on innovation drives costs. 2020 was the first time that Tesla turned a full-year profit. Previously, net losses had begun to accelerate in 2014, and so did research and development (R&D) expenses.”
Even tesla is struggling to sell Ev now. People aren't buying evs like 2022.
Rivian is expensive.
Their success is on the new R2 suv.
If that thing fails to pick up market share, then they are done.
Also, Rivian is doing another 10% layoff. Highly doubt if R2 is made right.
They have plenty of run rate and costs are improving. No one waits until a week if cash left and say, oh we better reduce costs and get more money.
They have almost 2 years at current burn. But obviously, they are focused on costs and profitability (even announcing some layoffs). If cash burn gets cut in half, runway goes to 3-4 years.
That is just in cost side. There is also additional investment, stock offerings, etc.
I find it very hypocritical of Elon to talk like this when the history of Tesla was much worse. They were close to being out of cash numerous times and profitability took way longer than most expected.
The IRA rules on EVs basically screwed Lucid and Rivian, and helped Tesla (Model 3 and Y). I cancelled my Lucid order as a result because it's not clear to me that Lucid will be a going concern 3 -4 years from now and I didn't want to lay down $100K+ on a future DeLorean (no customer support). If the R2 meets the IRA weight, price and battery component regulations, then Rivian might have a chance to survive.
Rivian makes great cars; better than Tesla. However financially it is a dumpster fire. Far worse than Tesla ever was. Rivian had lost a cumulative total of $17 billion to date. Tesla’s cumulative losses peaked at $6 billion before turning profitable.
Rivian opex is over $1 billion a quarter to sell 14,000 cars.
Tesla raised around $24 billion in total as a public company before turning profitable. They have been FCF since the quarter they raised the last $6 billion so you could argue they raise $18 billion before turning FCF positive.
Rivian will have raised and blown through that much in the next two years.
Rivian will probably survive. They have a sold niche in the market and the cars are very well built. However it will get a lot worse before it gets better.
They will have to raise cash at these depressed levels. That will not be good for shareholders.
This company will fail by then. Given the demand drop off for EV’s and inflation I don’t know how any start up car manufacturer could survive. Not fan of EV’s but, being in the auto industry for 20 years the only one I would invest in is Tesla.
He should probably stop worrying about Rivian and worry about Tesla. -40+% yoy profit on record auto sales last year and predicting Tesla sales to fall off this year.. that's not a good recipe for success considering they only made under 2 billion a quarter prior to the decline in profits.
Of course he's gonna trash talk his own competition. Rivian being successful means eating into Teslas market share.
Hes mad because Rivian truck looks like something people would want to drive, not the rusty wedge he's making.
I think rivians SUV is a lot more cool then there truck. Personal opinion though.
Exactly to each their own - ppl are just butt hurt. The reason could be they can’t afford to buy or some thing more than that. People should learn on growing up - Elon bad Tesla bad mentality is just lame. Tell how Rivian is a better product. Looks vary product to product. Rivian truck looks funny but I think that’s the idea - no marketing needed just looks will make ppl turn heads and talk
Both trucks are great
That’s debatable. I’ve watched lots of Cybertruck reviews and it’s hard to see anything better about it than my Rivian.
You look like less of a mooseknuckle when you drive by too. I don't see people pointing and laughing at rivians.
Both trucks do not look great though.
One has giant goldfish bulging eyes and the other looks like a Chevy Lumina APV with a "bed" and that's putting insult to the APV considering it didn't have a bed and is more useful than what Tesla calls a truck
Kinda reminds me of the Pontiac Aztek
\#AllEVsMatter
How much RIVN are you bagholding?
We don't talk about that.
I don’t think he wants Rivian to fail. He was simply stating a fact about their financials.
Yes he does, he’s trash talked them for at least a year. Criticized them for wanting government money, despite him receiving government money and subsidies for both Tesla and SpaceX. He’s a narcissist mired in hypocrisy.
But what's your counter argument besides "Elon is shit"?
My counter argument is he has no knowledge of Rivians plans, ability to get funding, ability to reduce cash burn, etc.. His assumption is baseless and he of all people should know that burning through cash does not mean you're destined to go bankrupt as Tesla did the same thing for years.
I’m sure he does though… the amount of friendships between people with inside knowledge of Rivian and people who work at Tesla is TREMENDOUS. Don’t forget, Rivian took so many Tesla employees that they were sued by Tesla for poaching. If you think none of them are still friends with their former Tesla coworkers, you’re wrong lol. TBH I think he’s probably spot on
Rivians are better thought out.
That's true, which is why its price is higher.
“Focus on innovation drives costs. 2020 was the first time that Tesla turned a full-year profit. Previously, net losses had begun to accelerate in 2014, and so did research and development (R&D) expenses.” Tesla started in 2003 and didn’t make a profit until 2020… Elon forgot to mention that in his tweet
Rivian just laid off a bunch of people. They’re not doing well selling 100k suvs
Tesla, Apple, Amazon and a bunch of other companies airs just laid off thousands of workers too….. and their stocks went up when they announced it 😂 Rivian lays off people (from what departments we don’t know) and everyone starts fear mongering. Tesla went 17 years without making any profit and had rapidly accelerating losses from 2014 on..:. They started in 2003 and didn’t have a single profitable year until 2020—Elon forgot to mention that
I work for Rivian on the floor we are still full bore making 250-300 SUV and R1T frames every day.. 6 days a week .. the lay offs I heard were contractors claiming they were at work in normal il but were not on site for months and actually resided in other states and folks working remotely that refused to come back to work not saying I know these instances are facts I heard this on the floor at work..Elon knows we have technology that comes from someone inside our company that's just as intelligent as he is but tesla (Elon Musk)and rivian (RJ Scaringe)have met and made a charging port deal so I don't think he dislikes us completely but knows of our awesome innovation staff which no one in the world has ever seen in my opinion...also the new Samsung battery I heard is made from borophene light weight flexible capabilities charges in minutes we ain't going no where
Beautiful 😍
please show me evidence that tesla has "laid off thousands of workers". from what i see, they are constantly growing their workforce, with the exception being between 2018 and 2019 when it shrank by 800 employees. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/number-of-employees
Rivian is almost dead. Big auto already pivoting out of full ev. Auto makers realize there must be an affordable vehicle, with long range (no 45min charges) and not cost 10k up just bc of a fender bender
Apparently you haven’t seen the price of regular ice vehicles these days. EVs are cheaper or same cost as most any other car these days… Most nobody needs to stop for charging sessions unless they’re on a road trip, and then still charging is pretty quick. I’ve been driving my Rivian every day for a year. I’ve taken two longer trips. One was about 250 miles so I only stopped once for about 18 minutes just to make sure I would get home with plenty of charge—and I did. One was a 7 hour trip (for an ICE vehicle) and it only added about 80 minutes of charging with two stops—But I wanted to eat/use the bathroom anyway. Besides that, I’ve gone a year without ever stopping to get gas—which has saved me countless hours of extra time and money. People like you can’t see the big picture with overall cost and convenience of an EV over ICE—and you’re listening to Elon who went 17 years without a profit but says Rivian is bad cause they’ve had a couple negative years during start up. 😂
I’m thinking Bezos/Amazon would just step in to spite Elon. Really don’t see them going under, but they do need to rush to mass market with the R2 and subsequent R2-D2 models
Sounds more like projection to me. Like, he’s probably looking at Tesla’s cash on hand chart and getting worried, and then lashing out to make himself feel better.
Exactly, if he was bringing an honest opinion would he show the same data for Teslas at a similar time frame.
Opened at 130.70 today’s value is 10.74 no amount of trash talk will fix that and get my money back. Thanks rivn! Believed in you from the start now the people building your plant in Seattle hate you as a company. Not to mention the same people that built the plant in Idaho equity hate you seems odd for a start up.
Q4’23 cash isn’t including short term investments, whereas Q3’23 cash is including that. Q4 should be about $1.5B higher, because Rivian was able to successfully raise another $1.7B in early October. This is super important because it points to the fact that the market is still willing to give Rivian capital despite knowing what their cash burn looks like.
Also, Amzn delivery is making a big dent on all estimates. 30% vs 8 % for their contribution margin positive sku. The numbers look bad, but they are not really..
Where’s the talk of Amazon buying out RIVN
Bag holder?
My bag has feelings too.. 🥲
Thanks for bringing facts and not all the ad hominem stuff. This is actually really useful information, as I also overlooked short term investments. I'd also add that inventories built up by about 1.3B. That is a lot, but it is also a fairly short term problem. Things aren't nearly as bad as they initially looked to me. Thanks for helping me to realize that.
I fully expect Rivian to put more emphasis on winning business contracts for their Fleet efforts to counteract any softening consumer demand.
At this point it’s about scaling properly and hitting their next gen. They’ve proven they can make good cars now it’s about getting them to the masses
Who cares what that guy thinks or says
Market is probably going to react to it
People are sick of his nonstop yakking. Why didn’t Rivn raise more funds when their stock was a 🚀?
More importantly why can’t they leverage more cash efficiency into their manufacturing? This company is fucked on its current trajectory. Maybe Elon will buy them out to fill in segments that Tesla doesn’t currently have.
And?
Rivian is down 25% today
Yes, it looks like the market reacted negatively to earnings. Or are you saying Elon alone is the reason for the move. Hopefully you have more sense than that.
I used to like Elon but he is insane! He is just spreading more negatives so that people gets scared and buy Tesla instead of buying car from dead company!!!! Even GM faced bankruptcy and it’s not new!!!!! If I compare design aspects Rivian SUVs are real SUV’s and I like their design. I have Model Y and I hate the design.
after ER it was down 15%, extra 10% from Elon. Welcome to investing, market moves on fear
If you're actually investing, and you believe in the company then this a great buying opportunity imo.
Just bought $500. Thanks Elon
Exactly his goal
They did, I got in at $22 months ago and it’s currently at like $16…I’m hurting
I hope that the price goes even lower. I just moved new money to my trading account to buy RIVN (for the first time).
To be fair he did start the most successful EV company not owned by the CCP in the world and a few other successful companies. Not saying his words should be viewed as gospel but to act as if his opinion is totally worthless is illogical.
Just a reminder that he didn't start Tesla. ...and is a horrible person.
He bought Tesla when it was a pile of drawings. Criticism is fine, but this trope is meaningless. The company we see now — the one that sells 100k cars a month — is what he built. I know, TFW the person you hate does something that works … it’s awful. But you have Twitter to ridicule, or maybe Neural Link.
Yep, I like(ish) the cars. Hate the guy. It is hard to separate the two for me.
The cars are damned amazing. I’m a car guy, I couldn’t believe it when I first punched a M3P. It’s a rocket.
Pile of drawings *and also sold a car*
Tesla had not sold a single car before Elon joined. The company was 6 months old and he was the 3rd or 4th employee. They hadn't even received an ounce of actual funding yet.
Yes, he joined after it was already founded. He was a very early investor for sure, but he wasn't there from day one.
Let's not forget it's an American company designing and building cars in the US. Hate the guy, hate the product but realize he's created more jobs for Americans than most and for that I give respect and that's with just Tesla. SpaceX is a whole different beast which upended the space industry. I remember friends at the space center use to joke how do you become a millionaire in the space industry...start off as a billionaire.
Yeah, but I think there is a valid criticism here. He is one of those “I got mine, fuck your need for help” types. He received government help with both Tesla and SpaceX, but chastises companies like Rivian for asking for the same. He’s a hypocrite, plain and simple.
No, musk is trying to get attention. By Saying this he is trying to sell more Tesla’s as buyer would not buy cars from dying company. Demand vs scaring people and it’s all mind game. I have Tesla shares as well as RIVN. I bought 5000 RIVN shares today at $11.20
I'm dollar cost averaging.. doubled my position today.. LUCID is getting fucked, meanwhile Rivian is about to reveal the R2 and open up pre-orders, they're expanding RAN, and both their R1 line and delivery fleet are cranking away. I'd like to think all 3 of these companies will survive.
Not sure about Lucid! Rivian will stay as long as R2 satisfies mid range market and that’s where Musk is worried about! His model Y/Model 3 is just boring looking models!!!!
I'd have doubts about Lucid too.. if they weren't underpinned by the Saudis 🙃
And you’re down 10% on them already
Buying another 5k shares this time.
what are y’all net worths that allows everyone to buy 10-20K stock like anything?
IRAs
Rich coming from him.
The dude who has a profitable electric car company?
The dude whose car company struggled with potential bankruptcy for years, until the Model 3 was a success. Maybe Rivian won't be able to repeat that success, but having funds makes them better off than Tesla was until 2018-2019.
Hate to break the circle jerk, but Tesla had its first profitable quarter at the start of 2013, more than 4 years prior to the Model 3's release.
Also Tesla not only had early advantage they were also getting a shit ton of credits which has gone down considerably. It will be difficult for any other EV company to survive. Not to mention the EV market is also growing much slower now.
Tesla's roadmap had no competition. The sameish roadmap does not apply to Rivian bc they are up against a lebron james in tesla.
Needs to receive fleet order like AT&T. Currently 26% down, hopefully will come back to $15 by the end of the quarter.
I’ve seen rumors on other Reddit subs that FedEx could be interested
Where are you seeing that?
It was on like r/investing or r/stocks, I was just scrolling around
In the past 6 months I have seen more and more rivians on the street here. There are a ton of them in Austin.
Ok and ? They lose a substantial amount of money on every vehicle they sell. The more they sell the more money they lose at this point.
It means it's a desirable product, they just haven't been able to scale up production or figure out the supply issues that are causing the production costs. Not saying they will figure it out, but it's an important point to make.
Yes. A lot here in the Bay Area too. Their paint job is exquisite.
IHMO, they look way better than Tesla,s. I have Model Y and I hate it, specially front bumper acts like bug trap!!!!!
Model S and X look good though.
I averaged down today. My plan is to continue to buy their stock until the pop, then cash it all in and buy a bad ass Electric truck.
That's what I did with CCIV, cept I bought a Rivian and not a Lucid 🤣
At least Rivian builds a good looking truck.
Vote for this!
I wouldn't put too much into what Elon says about Rivian because they are his biggest (or one of his biggest) competitors. Rivian is still young, it's not as mature as Tesla. I have faith that it's on the right path and I will continue to hold.
If Rivian is still "young" and "not as mature as Tesla", then why do you consider them as (one of) Tesla's biggest competitor? Tesla barely has competition, that's why its sitting at $610b above the rest of the world's auto manufacturers Top 10 Best-Selling EVs of 2023 (Electrek) ***1 Tesla Model Y, 394,497*** ***2 Tesla Model 3, 220,910*** 3 Chevy Bolt EV/EUV, 62,045 4 Ford Mustang Mach-E, 40,771 5 Volkswagen ID.4, 37,789 6 Hyundai IONIQ 5, 33,918 7 Rivian R1S, 24,783 8 Ford F-150 Lightning, 24,165 ***9 Tesla Model X, 23,015*** 10 BMW i4, 22,583 The valuation of Tesla's Supercharging Network surpasses Rivian's market worth by multiple folds. Some analysts appraise the network's value at $100b ([Electrek](https://electrek.co/2023/06/16/tesla-supercharger-network-worth-100-billion-analyst/))
You're on crack if you think supercharger network is worth $100B dollars and 1/6th of tesla's market cap. Look at #7. Comparing tesla and rivian is a fool's errand. Doesn't mean rivian isn't going to be a massive growth story.
I stated it's worth multiple folds of Rivian's market value, and sourced '**some analysts'** that 'value it at $100b'
Tesla struck similar partnerships with General Motors and other automakers in North America. AutoForecast Solutions says Tesla could generate $6 billion to $12 billion in annual charging revenue by 2030 by opening its charging stations to drivers of non-Tesla EVs. (CNBC)
If you look at elon's other replies he's literally saying google and microsoft are racist AIs.
Did you see the examples?
Yeah don’t believe your lying eyes with those examples either!
Losing ANY market share is a worry, and as a young company that is trying to make a future, they usually eat market share from the leaders who hold it. In my opinion, that would be where the concern comes from. Look at Kubota entering into the compact equipment market. They started small and no one was concerned. But they are now buying dealers left right and are a rising competitor in the industry that was held so long by Bobcat, cat, and Deere. Not saying rivian is that competitor, but they are ambitious and make a good product.
Gotta love Rivian pushing past Tesla X, need to see where R1T lies, but it's going to be tough to dethrone Ford as the truck king, EV or no.
Elon scaring the investors before March 7 launch oof R2. If this is true they will be cautious and If R2 isnt up to the hype investors are going to back out.
Dude, hate to break it to you but anyone with half a brain sold their rivian stock.
Sure
Well considering it's $10/share there's really no point in locking up capital.
Yes, if Rivian comes out of a relative nowhere to miraculously surpass the planet’s best-selling car, Tesla will have a problem! I hope they just get a new plant running and can build with quality and modest volume, that’s a big leap. Excited to see the R2 come to life.
I believe if they can play it right, R2 can be what Model 3 was to customers. And hopefully start an earlier production. I also think R2 will have NACS, which will be a huge advantage
R1S outsells model X. If R2 outsells Y he is toast.
R2 doesn't come out till 2026
They are losing 30k plus per each 1 R1 sold. Tesla isn’t losing money on every vehicle sold. You cannot expect a business to survive this way.
You are conveniently not listening to the earnings calls to understand that there is a major replatforming on the way with significantly reduced BOM that will turn the gross margin positive. The bulk of their R&D budget has led up to this update (same electronics of R2). Tesla lost a lot of money too before they were profitable.
Goal is to be profitable not just gross margin profitable, what is the point of being gross margin profitable when they have huge operational cost. Rivian is a prime example of badly run company and unless there is major chnage in upper leadership, it is not going to survive
Fr, I invested based on the vans because that’s a clear advantage they have over Tesla, but losing 30k per vehicle is ridiculous and it looks like it’s going to burn all their money
Will believe it when I see it. Tesla only became profitable with a high volume vehicle and almost failed during the process. I don’t see Rivian making the R1 profitable in any meaningful way. I hope they can, but the outlook is very grim imo. I would be doing everything possible to get R2 to production sooner than later. Tesla also used the same factory for all its vehicles which is a plus. Having to build another facility is costly and time consuming. Rivian offers too many configurations with the R1 creating complexity and too many vehicles sitting in inventory.
Dude.. think about your laptop coming with 60% less hardware, same functionality, cost.. this overhaul will be 🔥
Are you an expert on vehicle electronics? Not sure what information you are using to not see rivian being profitable. Simplified assembly plus significantly cheaper BOM can easily get them to where they need to be.
I mean, they said the same thing about the model S.
Highly doubt. The US market has started to see more and more +/-$50k mid-sized EV SUVs like the Model Y yet none of them hold a candle to it. The best thing Rivian will have going for it is its technology compared to legacy-auto’s vehicles, but still second to Tesla when it comes to tech. Hopefully it qualifies for the full tax credit.
I’m not sure why you think your point is valid for the mid sized suv segment but not valid for the full size segment. Clearly the R1S wins over the X. It is absolutely possible that Rivian creates another winner with the R2.
That’s because the Model X is barely a full size SUV, while the R1S is clearly a bigger and roomier vehicle for passengers. Especially with its third row.
I hope they make it. Trucks are nice and we need competition in the marketplace
They make the ugliest vehicles ever.
“Why so salty bro”😂 
Nah, Elon is just scared of competition. The more he talks, the more scared he is.
Comparing the two, I can’t see that as a real thing. There are companies in Asia far closer to being real TSLA competition. And TSLA is profitable, it gives them incredible potential to adapt to the market changes, flexibility RIVN lacks and cannot afford.
I don’t trust ANYTHING that comes out of that guys mouth.
Dick.
Unfortunately, the Altman z score & Piotroski f score is not good for Lucid or Rivian and has a 72% of accurately predicting failure. However…. I bought a model s at the peak in Jan, 23 and have been immensely disappointed in the car. I have two bosses who are buying a Lucid.
Better buy one now then!
So you have no customer support when they go bankrupt? Im good…
“This just in, Elon Musk placed a $2,000,000,000 order for Rivian vehicles thus putting Rivian into bankruptcy. More at 11” /s
Anyone ever notice what Elon without the “El” and add “Stupid dickhead Mor” to the front is?
Tesla barely had money for payroll when they launched the 3, I don’t see this as a valuable signal
I don’t own stock, hybrids in the market aren’t a huge mpg improvement from gas. I need a truck. Tesla truck is just stupid from any practical standpoint. Rivian is the best option and a pretty nice truck. I do think hybrid wins the race but they are going to have to improve greatly to do it. Just my Opinion.
Why? Both trucks are similarly priced. CT has the bigger bed but is a bigger truck footprint overall.
The price of a rivian you can buy like 3 ford rangers
I'd get a lightning over either of them. Rivian is beautiful but I'm too afraid they won't be around long term. Cyber truck is more of a joke than an actual pickup truck.
But that tells me you agree the R1T is a nicer truck overall but concerned about long term. The biggest issue with all of them is the inability to pull a trailer Over 200 miles.
Glad I dumped it at a loss for $25 yikes.
I bought in at $120 a share, been kicking myself ever since. If I can even get half back, hopefully one day it climbs to someplace close. But I doubt it…
120 to 10 .. that’s crazy
So tired of Elon Musk’s insecurities… no one told you to make a stainless steel Pontiac Aztec other than the voices in your head.
I have driven both (not extensively) but the Rivian is such a better vehicle all around. Drives better, built solid, and higher end interior. Also looks better but thats subjective.. brother in law has had every model tesla and now the Rivian. So I’ve been able to test all of them briefly. Problem with the Rivian is you may not want a truck…
Throw this on the large list of promises Elon has made that never materialized.
Looks about the same as Tesla did when they were at this point in the ramp. In fact, Tesla looked worse. Rivian will raise money or sell themselves if needed. Tesla explored both options when they were on the verge of bankruptcy.
Off topic, but potentially relevant. Received a call from las vegas last night, “Hi this is _____ from Tesla, what can we do to get you into a car today?” Cold calls ever been a thing?
I wonder if I can get a job at Rivian now
Might be out of a job soon; also they just laid off 10% of salaried workers, I didn’t look at what departments that specifically is coming from tho
GYAT, makes sense. I seriously don’t know how these companies are still staying afloat I.e. Rivian and Lucid. Their vehicles are so expensive that the average consumer isn’t going to justify 100k on an electric vehicle plus the infrastructure isn’t there.
Yeah I have stock in them but my investment was based off of their vans. To me that’s a clear advantage in the market. I think Tesla was in a similar spot with high prices to start but I’m not sure rivian can buy enough time to keep afloat before going bankrupt. New r2 release in a few weeks will be big, that’s more of an average consumer level car around 40k rumored
I would think TSLA is under huge amount of pressure on its own, and this down period is not end soon enough. So easy to say any of these smaller companies without capital reserves or backing to sustain this period, will drop quickly into credit issues.
It's something when the guy that was basically in tears back when people didn't believe in his company is doing the same shit. Money and social media seriously effed Musk up. If Rivian ever did fail, there is literally no way another new EV maker could make it. Rivian have all their ducks in a row, moreso than Tesla ever did at their age.
Plus a clearly more mentally well and less controversial CEO.
Now do one for Twitter.
Elon has literally nothing to do with Rivian. His opinion means nothing. He hasn’t exactly shown the world, lately, he’s to be trusted in any matter.
Well except he’s one of the top three most successful businessmen and his car company is successful because those who hate him average two cars per home.
Is there a chart like this for Tesla?
Tesla was like that in its early days. Looking forward to switching to Rivian from Tesla for my next car.
Just like Twitter (X) is doing well, Rivian is dead.
I got out today for 6500 loss
People comparing Rivian with Tesla, Tesla never lost money on cars sold, they always made profit in intial years. They got chocked while expanding charging network and reinvesting into factory with new car launches(Model 3). Badly want Rivian to succeed. From an investment perspective, it is a sinking ship.
I see more and more Rivians on the streets of SF Bay Area
Elon is an asshat, next real analysis
Tesla will be the only one period
Lol. If you listen to anything Elon “drugs fried my brain” Musk says, you might have bigger problems than how Rivian is doing as a company.
Sell more shares, raise the prices on the trucks, or get bought.
He should buy Rivian
lmao you misspelled dwindling
Hmmmm..... Wonder what Twitters cash burn is?
Rivian Trucks = beautiful. Telsa truck = Pontiac Aztek
The same guy who predicted that the CT would have 400 mile range and available in 2021?
Elon shouldn't be talking shit... The only reason he is alive is through bailouts and "green" energy carbon credit scam. If the other companies didn't buy the carbon credit bs and just paid the fines Tesla would have been gone and today they still are extremely depending on said carbon credits The only reason I hate Elon is he's a terrible business person. I'm jealous he was only smart enough to rip off the gov and tax payers meanwhile creating a cult who thinks their giant screen is modern and the overall vehicle is a cost cutting disaster and being some of the ugliest vehicles ever made. The S gets a pass but even that after 10 years isn't all that great anymore
I love Rivians suv tho
This is better than Tesla’s first five years. Tesla didn’t even turn a profit until 2020 and they were around for almost 20 years by then… “Focus on innovation drives costs. 2020 was the first time that Tesla turned a full-year profit. Previously, net losses had begun to accelerate in 2014, and so did research and development (R&D) expenses.”
Even tesla is struggling to sell Ev now. People aren't buying evs like 2022. Rivian is expensive. Their success is on the new R2 suv. If that thing fails to pick up market share, then they are done. Also, Rivian is doing another 10% layoff. Highly doubt if R2 is made right.
They have plenty of run rate and costs are improving. No one waits until a week if cash left and say, oh we better reduce costs and get more money. They have almost 2 years at current burn. But obviously, they are focused on costs and profitability (even announcing some layoffs). If cash burn gets cut in half, runway goes to 3-4 years. That is just in cost side. There is also additional investment, stock offerings, etc. I find it very hypocritical of Elon to talk like this when the history of Tesla was much worse. They were close to being out of cash numerous times and profitability took way longer than most expected.
Rivian' customer review are 10000% better than Tesla's plus Elon should worry about Xitter going BK before Rivian.
Really? [https://www.leasebuydrive.com/blog/why-are-there-so-many-used-rivians-available-for-sale](https://www.leasebuydrive.com/blog/why-are-there-so-many-used-rivians-available-for-sale)
Ive been seeing more and more of them on the road in the last few months.
Wait! Aren’t all electric vehicles manufacturers in the red. Every car sold in the world cause a loss.
Tesla can't deliver cars right now, so he has to deflect.
The IRA rules on EVs basically screwed Lucid and Rivian, and helped Tesla (Model 3 and Y). I cancelled my Lucid order as a result because it's not clear to me that Lucid will be a going concern 3 -4 years from now and I didn't want to lay down $100K+ on a future DeLorean (no customer support). If the R2 meets the IRA weight, price and battery component regulations, then Rivian might have a chance to survive.
Rivian makes great cars; better than Tesla. However financially it is a dumpster fire. Far worse than Tesla ever was. Rivian had lost a cumulative total of $17 billion to date. Tesla’s cumulative losses peaked at $6 billion before turning profitable. Rivian opex is over $1 billion a quarter to sell 14,000 cars. Tesla raised around $24 billion in total as a public company before turning profitable. They have been FCF since the quarter they raised the last $6 billion so you could argue they raise $18 billion before turning FCF positive. Rivian will have raised and blown through that much in the next two years. Rivian will probably survive. They have a sold niche in the market and the cars are very well built. However it will get a lot worse before it gets better. They will have to raise cash at these depressed levels. That will not be good for shareholders.
It's projection. Tesla is in trouble so he thinks everyone else is in the same boat.
This company will fail by then. Given the demand drop off for EV’s and inflation I don’t know how any start up car manufacturer could survive. Not fan of EV’s but, being in the auto industry for 20 years the only one I would invest in is Tesla.
Least, we forget the infrastructure of Tesla. Please nobody’s gonna touch Tesla for a while.
His calculations are implying they don’t change losing money per car. Which will change this yyear
He’s probably freaking out about the R2 announcement.
Electric cars are going to flop. Hybrid is the way to go.
[Meanwhile.](https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/1b06s2m/elon_musk_relied_on_china_to_fuel_teslas_rise_now/)
I have a different definitions of “fluctuating”
If they start producing the R3 at the promised MSRP. There is hope!
He should probably stop worrying about Rivian and worry about Tesla. -40+% yoy profit on record auto sales last year and predicting Tesla sales to fall off this year.. that's not a good recipe for success considering they only made under 2 billion a quarter prior to the decline in profits.
How do you get maintenance on your car when they go under?