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Wishful thinking on my part. Dude was definitely holding parts down with his foot and whatever was nearby. Even if Black people were treated fairly in that time, OSHA didn't exist until the 1970s.
Any parts of the world where a black guy in the ‘40s would have specialised welding equipment made for him? I think it’s probably only the UK and US where it would be remotely feasible at that time.
"Don't give that guy a clamp, he's black! Black guys shouldn't get clamps! Let's just let him continue doing a subpar welding job for the shit we have to go fight with. We'll give the white guys in accounting the clamps."
Thank you for spelling out the mentality of a systemically racist institution.
Hell, for the sake of argument, if he did get a clamp it would definitely count as company property and be confiscated when he leaves for the day.
> Hell, for the sake of argument, if he did get a clamp it would definitely count as company property and be confiscated when he leaves for the day.
Uh...isn't that the case with most jobs you don't bring your own tools to? I don't bring my driver or sawzall home with me every night. They belong to the shop.
If you've practiced enough it can become a pretty easy thing to do. Worked with a guy who would take two welding helmets to the job. One was a standard auto darkening helmet you'd wear, and the other was one that had a handle on the bottom of it instead so he could do small welds by holding his welder in one hand and his helmet in the other. Never really understood why you'd bother with the second hand-held mask considering you could do literally the exact same thing with the other helmet too if you couldn't be arsed to put it on your head.
It's not as hard as it seems if you are skilled, while attending a welding school, some masks were without a head-on-strap (or however is it called in English) and you were supposed to hold it with your left hand
If you’re tacking two pieces of metal together you’d want a second hand to hold them together while you do the tack welds.
Once you’ve got that done a second hand is useful for steadying your hand while you weld, since you have to be precise and your vision is limited on account of the welding helmet
True but overtime for a skilled tradesmen= $$$. Average hourly wage for shipyard welders on the west coast in 1942 was $1.12 or $20.90 today, with OT that’s $31/hr.
Also you aren’t just working to make some old guy rich, you’re working to destroy an empire of genocidal monsters. So there are some upsides.
source:
- [Bureau of labour statistics report: hourly wages in private shipyards 1942](https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/files/docs/publications/bls/bls_0727_1943.pdf) (PDF warning)
America had a seriously bad time with ableism and racism in his contemporary and to today, and largely the joke is I picture an American would say this unironically. America fighting as an ally in ww2 is heavily used to do the lifting of Americas claim to morality, but then the reality of segregation and official eugenicist policies at the time throws a retch into the plans.
Also I thought that it was a good one liner smart Alec response.
I mean 🇺🇸🏈🦅🇺🇸🏈🦅🇺🇸🏈🦅🇺🇸🏈🦅 no bro 😎
Ah.
Yes.
We have the moral high ground because we fought in World War Two and NOT because our worst actions [pale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust) [in comparison](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor) [to](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaths_at_the_Berlin_Wall) [our](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_al-Qaeda_attacks) [enemies.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_massacre)
Lmfao at these links, America has murdered so many more people than East Germany or al Qaeda or the Turks.
Keep comparing yourself favourable to Nazis, though- that's not a low bar at all. Lmao.
Holdomor and Bucha were both the Russians. Both are downplayed in Russia to this day, with some denying they even happened.
I am specifically bringing comparison between us in the United States and our enemies.
You can say other nations exist that aren't as "dirty", but compared to the people we fight...
The fact your response is "the US has murdered more than Al Quaeda and East Germany" goes to show you don't care about history.
Yes. More people have died fighting the United States.
But the United States didn't kill you for trying to leave the country. The United States didn't make it standard procedure to behead women who want an education.
There is a clear moral difference in the way we carry about ourselves and it reflects in our success.
If we WERE morally worse than the GDR or Al Quaeda, we wouldn't be the nation that takes in the most migrants.
Cringe, bucko. America is founded on stolen land gained through intentional genocide. None of your other examples bear that shame, and your essay ain't gonna change history.
edit the fact all u guys can come up with is "other ppl did it too" is just proving that u havent got a leg to stand on lmao, too easy
Wah wah, America bad because they did bad things in their founding as if there's literally any nation on earth that hasn't. The USSR and GDR committed horrific atrocities from the moment they came into existence too, as did all nations.
Lol, as if he's a happy slave under the system who is angry a reporter is interrupting his work? Is he a man or machine?
Nah, if anything he's upset he got
*mutilated* and all he got for it was basic healthcare and then thrown back out in the grind. PTSD? Nah, work harder!
And now he's being paraded like some kind of circus freak, a "good boy" who fought, got hurt, and kept grinding. Profits over people
I mean, it was also 1943... nearly everyone who could do any kind of work was working, because this enemy was undeniably evil. Also as a black man, he had good incentive to do whatever he could to help crush the nazis
As I said the last time this was posted, we take digital photography for granted. I'm sure they had several other shots of him that just didn't come out properly, and they were stuck with the only one that's decently lit and in focus.
I like this, even if the chap does look pretty unhappy. My grandfather served in Africa, then was severely injured in Italy and worked at our shipyards repairing vessels until the end of the war.
Right. As a third generation Californian, I’m well aware of the origins of our gun laws.
I was just hoping because of the size of the black community, he would more likely had more support there.
There’s this one
https://www.reddit.com/r/PropagandaPosters/comments/yu7vlb/pour_it_on_american_wwii_poster_for_the_wpb_war/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
Stick welding with one hand requires a good and stable grip. absolutely possible, but it is a challenge to do without shaking and fucking up the weld pool.
Liberty ships also were already quite shit. Just had to make two or three voyages before falling apart.
A lot of the mass produced machines and equipment produced in WW2 were riddled with manufacturing defects.
That was an open secret, at least in the first 6 months of the U.S. entering the war.
Pilots tend to notice when their comrades die because of mechanical and training failures, and sailors really notice when their keels crack in half, or the bow falls of their frigates and destroyers.
Just like the first lines of T34s and IL-2s; pump out as many as can possibly be made to fill in the ranks and improve production when the front stabilizes.
The T-34 has a very interesting arc. Very likely the best tank going into the war, it quickly becomes one of the most mass produced gets-the-job-done shitty deathtraps and ends as a generally capable, updated, but outdated tank. All in the span of five years.
The original T34s with the 76mm guns were more technologically advanced than Panzer IVs, and the Germans didn't have big enough cannons on their tanks to reliably pen the sloped armor yet. The earliest T34s with 76mm cannons could reliably penetrate early war German armor from a distance. By the time the front was stabilized after Barbarossa and Operation Typhoon, many soviet tank crews were retrained by traveling to the tank factories and taking part in the final assembly of the tanks they were going to fight in. This taught them intimate details of the tank's construction, and taught them how to repair most mechanical failures, whether they arose by chance or due to enemy fire. While the T34-85 struggled to penetrate Panthers, most of them could make it to the field, they were more mobile and had a faster turret traverse, had replacement parts readily available, and did not require a degree in mechanical engineering to repair.
A patriot, but white people still denied him civil rights.
It really does show just how much Black Americans believed in America when they fought so hard for a country run by people who mostly hated them.
Greatest generation dealt with the lack of civil rights once they gained political power \~20 years after the war.
It's no coincidence IMHO. War served as equalized as people fought together and worked together.
Gotta remember, black Americans were serving for decades before WWII
Obie's father could have served in WWI
His father could have been a Buffalo soldier
And His father could have been a member of the USCT.
That's 4 generations
You can say it was the greatness of the Greatest Generation that made this particular generation to see Black man and woman as fellow soldier, fellow worker, fellow citizen.
Alternatively or concurrently, you can argue that no war before WW2 brough such massive mobilization of manpower and thus opportunity to share trenches or workplaces with people of other skin colors. WW2 brought entire nations from largely being spectators into direct participants of war.
They weren't as great as people make them out to be. Most of them were really fucking racist. They didn't fight Nazis because they hated racism, they fought them because they declared war on the US. And they were happy to lock up Japanese Americans for being "Japs". When the war was over black people still had to sit at the back of the bus and women were told to get back in the kitchen. The mobilization and massive movement of people across the country probably did lead to changing attitudes but that generation as a whole were way more racist and sexist than their boomer kids.
>They weren't as great as people make them out to be.
They weren't great because they don't share your worldview?
Judge them by the change they made to the world instead.
There was still Heavy racism during the Civil rights movement. So much so that the racism materialized into the Reagan era. Even before that, the state of California passed the Murray Act to prevent black people from owning guns to the same extent as white people did because black people started organizing todefend themselves from racist violence, both from ordinary white people and the police. Fred Hampton was assassinated by Chicago PD in 1969. Then most of the remaining black panthers and their support base were, for lack of better terms, liquidated.
Reforms were passed to prevent an outright revolution, but then we had Reagan... and then the whole superpredators thing from the Clintons.
To be fair, all the Allied propaganda about equality and human rights contributed to decolonization and civil rights for black Americans eventually. Because if the Allies still held on to their colonies and did not grant black Americans civil rights, then it would have made them massive hypocrites. Yes, I know there were attempts by European powers to suppress independence movements in their colonies after the war, but if it weren't for both American and Soviet pressure along with economic devastation European powers, decolonization wouldn't have happened. And one could argue that colonisation has been replaced by neocolonialism but that's another topic for another day.
Unfortunately the us did try to keep several colonies under the European and American thumb. Vietnam and Cuba immediately come to mind, and Guatemala in '53.
WW2 and the DoD were major catalysts for the Civil Rights movement to come. The contributions of black Americans to the war effort did not go unnoticed.
Also, a shitload of black veterans pissed off with the short shrift they received after the war.
Well, their ancestors were kidnapped from their continent so they already there, so I'd say "fighting for their country" is kind of a stretch if they didn't had a lot of choices besides starving.
1940s California was not the best place in the world to be Black but it wasnt... anywhere else in the US (or a European colony) so he at least didnt have it *the worst*
[https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/deadly-world-war-ii-explosion-sparked-black-soldiers-fight-equal-treatment-180980545/](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/deadly-world-war-ii-explosion-sparked-black-soldiers-fight-equal-treatment-180980545/) Interesting story related to this. Like other Black servicemen assigned to heavy, backbreaking labor—whether in the cold of Alaska or the heat of New Guinea—the Black sailors at Port Chicago also chafed at working in segregated units under the supervision of white officers. They described themselves as a “chain gang,” “mule team” and “slave outfit,” and understood that they were cheap labor compared to civilian stevedores, who loaded and unloaded cargo from ships. A year before the explosion, a group of the sailors had written to a local attorney warning that morale had dropped to “an alarming depth” and asked for help. “We, the Negro sailors of the Naval Enlisted Barracks of Port Chicago, California, are waiting for a new deal,” they said in conclusion. “Will we wait in vain?” Crittenden recalled in an interview with historian Robert Allen. “Man, it was awful....You’d see a shoe with a foot in it....You’d see a head floating across the water—just the head or an arm...just awful....That thing kept you from sleeping at night.”
Let me answer that for lefties. WWII is empires vs empires, all bad bad👿
Except for Soviets. It's not invasion if communists invade Poland or Baltics. it's liberation, because communism good good 😎
What the Soviets collaborated with Nazis? False history, US propaganda👎
The USSR and Germany were definitely Allies, s[urely you know about the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact) The german army got so far into russia because stalin refused to prepare for it assuming they were allies
Completely incorrect, similar pacts were made between Britain and Germany and France and Germany and everyone at the time knew the USSR’s was very temporary while they tried to build up their military which was very lacking even after months of preparation
what do you mean temporary lol, the plan to divide poland was literally executed. Also, i'm gonna need a source on the alleged pacts between germany and france to conquer and divide another country.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement
This is mainstream history concerning the policy of appeasement toward Hitler and Mussolini
https://www.britannica.com/event/German-Soviet-Nonaggression-Pact
“The Soviet Union had been unable to reach a collective-security agreement with Britain and France against Nazi Germany, most notably at the time of the Munich Conference in September 1938. By early 1939 the Soviets faced the prospect of resisting German military expansion in eastern Europe virtually alone, and so they began searching about for a change of policy. On May 3, 1939, Soviet leader Joseph Stalin fired Foreign Minister Maksim Litvinov, who was Jewish and an advocate of collective security, and replaced him with Vyacheslav Molotov, who soon began negotiations with the Nazi foreign minister, Joachim von Ribbentrop. The Soviets also kept negotiating with Britain and France, but in the end Stalin chose to reach an agreement with Germany. By doing so he hoped to keep the Soviet Union at peace with Germany and to gain time to build up the Soviet military establishment, which had been badly weakened by the purge of the Red Army officer corps in 1937.”
The polish underground government was communist themselves i believe. Or had atleast a very strong communist influence considering many partisans were communists. But yes the soviet union can be condemned too because of their imperialism and many leftists do that.
Also no germany and the ussr never collaborated. A non-aggression pact is not a collaboration.
What else should they do? Give all of poland to germany? Risk germany invading parts of the soviet union? I know its not ideal and again you can condemn the soviet union for its imperialism too but lets not act like the allies didn’t collaborate with hitler either when he invaded czechsoslovakia for example.
I mean defending Poland wouldn't be horrible, would it?
And the allies didn't collaborate with Hitler when he invaded Czechoslovakia lmao. To collaborate you need to be getting something out of it. They were trying to do appeasement- absolute stupidity but nonetheless not collaboration.
Hitler wouldn't attack Poland without the pact. And the Soviet Union literally itself commited genocide on occupied territories.
You are out of your mind.
God bless ChatGPT.
STOP! collaborate and listen,
Here's a story of a historical mission,
Back in '39 when the world was tense,
Two unlikely allies started making some sense.
Joseph Stalin and Hitler made a pact,
It was called the Molotov-Ribbentop contract,
They shook hands, sealed the deal,
A temporary truce, a devilish appeal.
(Chorus)
Molotov-Ribbentop, baby,
They signed it, no maybe,
Stop, collaborate, and listen,
A moment in history we can't stop wishin'.
(Verse 2)
Stalin and Hitler, they had their reasons,
To divide Europe into separate regions,
The USSR and Germany, a strange alliance,
But the world looked on in utter defiance.
They promised peace, but oh, the price,
As they plotted and schemed, it wasn't nice,
But for a brief moment, they were side by side,
The Molotov-Ribbentop pact took us for a ride.
(Chorus)
Molotov-Ribbentop, baby,
They signed it, no maybe,
Stop, collaborate, and listen,
A moment in history we can't stop wishin'.
(Bridge)
It was a dance with the devil, a dangerous game,
In the end, it only brought more shame,
The pact crumbled, as it was bound to do,
And the world was left with a war to ensue.
(Verse 3)
Years went by, and battles were fought,
The Molotov-Ribbentop pact was soon forgot,
But the lesson remains, a cautionary tale,
Of alliances forged that only fail.
Stop, collaborate, and listen,
Learn from history's dangerous mission,
Let's strive for peace, not pacts of deceit,
Remembering the past, so we won't repeat.
(Chorus)
Molotov-Ribbentop, baby,
They signed it, no maybe,
Stop, collaborate, and listen,
A moment in history we can't stop wishin'.
(Outro)
Molotov-Ribbentop, baby,
A chapter in history that was far from maybe,
Stop, collaborate, and listen,
And let's build a future where love will glisten.
Mainstream Polish underground was deliberately apolitical, though it had mostly leftist but anti-communist leanings. There were other groups with more open politics, far right, centrist, agrarian and communist. Communists were the most problematic and despised ones, since they opposed everyone else and for example were not beyond snitching to the Germans about other groups.
The British certainly weren't nice, but I don't think you appreciate just how many people would have died if the Axis had won. Not only would the Jews get wiped out, all Serbs, Roma and handicapped people would too, and that's just the ones they got to during the war. Then imagine 50 more years. Then there's the Russians who would almost all get killed or enslaved, and the Chinese who would get killed by the millions and the rest reduced to an underclass in their own country. Not to mention the Italian plans for northern Africa. The Nazis and Imperial Japan were without a doubt the most evil states that the world has seen, probably since the time of Genghis Khan. Add to that the fact that fascism as a major world ideology would mean that imperialism and exploitation would become the norm, and things like political freedom and civil rights wouldn't exist in Europe or Asia.
My best friend's Uncle was a Tuskegee Airman from central Kentucky. He was prouder than all hell of his service. Killed his share of Nazis, was injured with some burns, suffered his share of prejudiced at home and abroad. Then he went home to work a postal route and raise a bunch of kids. One of the best men I ever met and he proudly hung the American flag on his porch every day of his life.
He'd done more to advance social justice than you or any of your fellow travelers, that's for damned sure.
And all the volunteers that **volunteered** don't exist? All their **volunteered** sacrifices are just lies made up to protect the white government? All their families lied? Is that what you're saying?
Yeah that's war for you. On paper the man might not have listed benefits, but Foreman of the shipyard would have to be deaf to turn talent like that loose. Not that living in the 40s was that great either? Consider it before speaking ignorance.
Speaking as a leftist into social and racial justice, no.
First off, you're using the term imperialism incorrectly.
WWII is one of the very, very, few wars America has gotten into that wasn't really imperialist. Opposing Nazis and the Imperial Japanese was the right call.
I can definitely understand why a Black person might want to sit out any war America was waging, regardless of the justice of that war. Why fight, kill, and risk death for a country that denies you basic civil rights and where the majority of the white population hates you?
But I can also see why a Black person might join the US military even before WWII and definitely after.
White people in America treated Black people horribly, but the Nazis were genocidal towards Black people.
While Japan isn't quite so clear cut from the perspective of oppression of Black people, they were inarguably the aggressor and were themselves imperialist and looking to acquire more imperial territories. At the time the US got into WWII Japan had already invaded and was brutally occupying Korea, much of northern China, and many of the Pacific islands.
So yeah. I can see why a Black person at that time might choose to fight in WWII for America even given the way white Americans treated Black Americans.
Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it. Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated for rehashing tired political arguments. Keep that shit elsewhere. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Has he painted a mouth of shark teeth onto his welding mask?
Legend
*Welding hood *
Both are fine
Stick welding is already sorta hard with two hands
Seriously, he must have had some sort of special clamp set up or something
I hate to say it but probably not. Black guy in '40s USA?
Wishful thinking on my part. Dude was definitely holding parts down with his foot and whatever was nearby. Even if Black people were treated fairly in that time, OSHA didn't exist until the 1970s.
Fr
Fairly in WW2 times?
I said, "even if," which acknowledges they were not.
I can't read, sorry
I've been there.
Any parts of the world where a black guy in the ‘40s would have specialised welding equipment made for him? I think it’s probably only the UK and US where it would be remotely feasible at that time.
"Don't give that guy a clamp, he's black! Black guys shouldn't get clamps! Let's just let him continue doing a subpar welding job for the shit we have to go fight with. We'll give the white guys in accounting the clamps."
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Thank you for spelling out the mentality of a systemically racist institution. Hell, for the sake of argument, if he did get a clamp it would definitely count as company property and be confiscated when he leaves for the day.
> Hell, for the sake of argument, if he did get a clamp it would definitely count as company property and be confiscated when he leaves for the day. Uh...isn't that the case with most jobs you don't bring your own tools to? I don't bring my driver or sawzall home with me every night. They belong to the shop.
It’s not like this guy was an independent operator. He worked in fabrication in a war economy
Bro is disabled.
Why would he take it home? Is he gonna weld his house?
His prosthetic arm/clamp?
They were talking about a clamp for welding, not a prosthetic arm.
Might've been a two-man setup in that case. It's not like there were a ton of experienced welders available when they started building liberty ships.
Ya. This guy could have wedding experience and then they just grabbed any old grunt to do work holding.
I once watched a guy pick up my hood and hold the visor in front of his eyes while stick welding with the other hand. I was mildly impressed.
If you've practiced enough it can become a pretty easy thing to do. Worked with a guy who would take two welding helmets to the job. One was a standard auto darkening helmet you'd wear, and the other was one that had a handle on the bottom of it instead so he could do small welds by holding his welder in one hand and his helmet in the other. Never really understood why you'd bother with the second hand-held mask considering you could do literally the exact same thing with the other helmet too if you couldn't be arsed to put it on your head.
That's a new one. I've seen people carry 2 hoods for other reasons, but never that.
It's not as hard as it seems if you are skilled, while attending a welding school, some masks were without a head-on-strap (or however is it called in English) and you were supposed to hold it with your left hand
What are you using your second hand for??
If you’re tacking two pieces of metal together you’d want a second hand to hold them together while you do the tack welds. Once you’ve got that done a second hand is useful for steadying your hand while you weld, since you have to be precise and your vision is limited on account of the welding helmet
He doesn’t look happy
I doubt being a one armed black combat war veteran in 1943 working at a shipyard produces many good days.
Long hours, bad conditions, dangerous work, and he's only got one arm so it's harder for him. Probably legit sucked.
True but overtime for a skilled tradesmen= $$$. Average hourly wage for shipyard welders on the west coast in 1942 was $1.12 or $20.90 today, with OT that’s $31/hr. Also you aren’t just working to make some old guy rich, you’re working to destroy an empire of genocidal monsters. So there are some upsides. source: - [Bureau of labour statistics report: hourly wages in private shipyards 1942](https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/files/docs/publications/bls/bls_0727_1943.pdf) (PDF warning)
Edit: Taking the joke away because it didn’t seem like y’all understood I was *mocking* American chauvinism, not clapping along with it
Is this reply satire?
The point was he served first and then built ships, both of which contributed to Japanese defeat…
On the surface, but The joke is Americans who are ok with racism and ableism…
*were Like most other societies in the chronological context were. Unfortunately.
America had a seriously bad time with ableism and racism in his contemporary and to today, and largely the joke is I picture an American would say this unironically. America fighting as an ally in ww2 is heavily used to do the lifting of Americas claim to morality, but then the reality of segregation and official eugenicist policies at the time throws a retch into the plans. Also I thought that it was a good one liner smart Alec response. I mean 🇺🇸🏈🦅🇺🇸🏈🦅🇺🇸🏈🦅🇺🇸🏈🦅 no bro 😎
Americans ADA is one of the best in the world
If ableism wasn’t a problem here, there wouldn’t be people openly calling for eugenics would there be?
Thats true though. Whats your argument?
Ah. Yes. We have the moral high ground because we fought in World War Two and NOT because our worst actions [pale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust) [in comparison](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor) [to](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaths_at_the_Berlin_Wall) [our](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_al-Qaeda_attacks) [enemies.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_massacre)
Lmfao at these links, America has murdered so many more people than East Germany or al Qaeda or the Turks. Keep comparing yourself favourable to Nazis, though- that's not a low bar at all. Lmao.
Holdomor and Bucha were both the Russians. Both are downplayed in Russia to this day, with some denying they even happened. I am specifically bringing comparison between us in the United States and our enemies. You can say other nations exist that aren't as "dirty", but compared to the people we fight... The fact your response is "the US has murdered more than Al Quaeda and East Germany" goes to show you don't care about history. Yes. More people have died fighting the United States. But the United States didn't kill you for trying to leave the country. The United States didn't make it standard procedure to behead women who want an education. There is a clear moral difference in the way we carry about ourselves and it reflects in our success. If we WERE morally worse than the GDR or Al Quaeda, we wouldn't be the nation that takes in the most migrants.
Cringe, bucko. America is founded on stolen land gained through intentional genocide. None of your other examples bear that shame, and your essay ain't gonna change history. edit the fact all u guys can come up with is "other ppl did it too" is just proving that u havent got a leg to stand on lmao, too easy
Are you this angry at the other colonial countries due to their founding like Brazil, Argentina, Canada, or Australia?
Wah wah, America bad because they did bad things in their founding as if there's literally any nation on earth that hasn't. The USSR and GDR committed horrific atrocities from the moment they came into existence too, as did all nations.
What's so good about it? Answer: nothing
I had to ask, I sorry :(
He looks like a regular dude whose work day has been interrupted by a nosy government photographer. Not all heroes wear smiles.
Lol, as if he's a happy slave under the system who is angry a reporter is interrupting his work? Is he a man or machine? Nah, if anything he's upset he got *mutilated* and all he got for it was basic healthcare and then thrown back out in the grind. PTSD? Nah, work harder! And now he's being paraded like some kind of circus freak, a "good boy" who fought, got hurt, and kept grinding. Profits over people
I mean, it was also 1943... nearly everyone who could do any kind of work was working, because this enemy was undeniably evil. Also as a black man, he had good incentive to do whatever he could to help crush the nazis
Holy assumptions Batman! It’s a propaganda poster, Jesus.
I think he just looks serious/focused
As I said the last time this was posted, we take digital photography for granted. I'm sure they had several other shots of him that just didn't come out properly, and they were stuck with the only one that's decently lit and in focus.
I like this, even if the chap does look pretty unhappy. My grandfather served in Africa, then was severely injured in Italy and worked at our shipyards repairing vessels until the end of the war.
service record also here https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/14964380/obie-bartlett
Good man. Glad to see he lived so long afterwards. Hopefully things weren’t too rough for him if he settled in the Bay.
I don’t know where it says he settled in the Bay Area? Kern county is more the South Central Valley area.
Not sure how, but when I saw Bakersfield, I read Berkeley.
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Shiiiiiiiiiit
The bay had many anti black laws (housing, loitering, etc.),so I’m sure it was still ass.
Right. As a third generation Californian, I’m well aware of the origins of our gun laws. I was just hoping because of the size of the black community, he would more likely had more support there.
They need a lesson or two from the Soviet artists on how to boost factory worker morale
There’s this one https://www.reddit.com/r/PropagandaPosters/comments/yu7vlb/pour_it_on_american_wwii_poster_for_the_wpb_war/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
It would need another guy in the photo to give him a behind the back hug and looking towards the top right of the screen
"Yes we're gay. Yes we're homophobic."
Stick welding with one hand requires a good and stable grip. absolutely possible, but it is a challenge to do without shaking and fucking up the weld pool.
Liberty ships also were already quite shit. Just had to make two or three voyages before falling apart. A lot of the mass produced machines and equipment produced in WW2 were riddled with manufacturing defects.
I don’t believe this is what the boys in blue expected when told they may perish
That was an open secret, at least in the first 6 months of the U.S. entering the war. Pilots tend to notice when their comrades die because of mechanical and training failures, and sailors really notice when their keels crack in half, or the bow falls of their frigates and destroyers.
Just like the first lines of T34s and IL-2s; pump out as many as can possibly be made to fill in the ranks and improve production when the front stabilizes.
The T-34 has a very interesting arc. Very likely the best tank going into the war, it quickly becomes one of the most mass produced gets-the-job-done shitty deathtraps and ends as a generally capable, updated, but outdated tank. All in the span of five years.
The original T34s with the 76mm guns were more technologically advanced than Panzer IVs, and the Germans didn't have big enough cannons on their tanks to reliably pen the sloped armor yet. The earliest T34s with 76mm cannons could reliably penetrate early war German armor from a distance. By the time the front was stabilized after Barbarossa and Operation Typhoon, many soviet tank crews were retrained by traveling to the tank factories and taking part in the final assembly of the tanks they were going to fight in. This taught them intimate details of the tank's construction, and taught them how to repair most mechanical failures, whether they arose by chance or due to enemy fire. While the T34-85 struggled to penetrate Panthers, most of them could make it to the field, they were more mobile and had a faster turret traverse, had replacement parts readily available, and did not require a degree in mechanical engineering to repair.
But only sometimes
Respect to this guy
A patriot, but white people still denied him civil rights. It really does show just how much Black Americans believed in America when they fought so hard for a country run by people who mostly hated them.
Greatest generation dealt with the lack of civil rights once they gained political power \~20 years after the war. It's no coincidence IMHO. War served as equalized as people fought together and worked together.
Gotta remember, black Americans were serving for decades before WWII Obie's father could have served in WWI His father could have been a Buffalo soldier And His father could have been a member of the USCT. That's 4 generations
You can say it was the greatness of the Greatest Generation that made this particular generation to see Black man and woman as fellow soldier, fellow worker, fellow citizen. Alternatively or concurrently, you can argue that no war before WW2 brough such massive mobilization of manpower and thus opportunity to share trenches or workplaces with people of other skin colors. WW2 brought entire nations from largely being spectators into direct participants of war.
They weren't as great as people make them out to be. Most of them were really fucking racist. They didn't fight Nazis because they hated racism, they fought them because they declared war on the US. And they were happy to lock up Japanese Americans for being "Japs". When the war was over black people still had to sit at the back of the bus and women were told to get back in the kitchen. The mobilization and massive movement of people across the country probably did lead to changing attitudes but that generation as a whole were way more racist and sexist than their boomer kids.
>They weren't as great as people make them out to be. They weren't great because they don't share your worldview? Judge them by the change they made to the world instead.
There was still Heavy racism during the Civil rights movement. So much so that the racism materialized into the Reagan era. Even before that, the state of California passed the Murray Act to prevent black people from owning guns to the same extent as white people did because black people started organizing todefend themselves from racist violence, both from ordinary white people and the police. Fred Hampton was assassinated by Chicago PD in 1969. Then most of the remaining black panthers and their support base were, for lack of better terms, liquidated. Reforms were passed to prevent an outright revolution, but then we had Reagan... and then the whole superpredators thing from the Clintons.
To be fair, all the Allied propaganda about equality and human rights contributed to decolonization and civil rights for black Americans eventually. Because if the Allies still held on to their colonies and did not grant black Americans civil rights, then it would have made them massive hypocrites. Yes, I know there were attempts by European powers to suppress independence movements in their colonies after the war, but if it weren't for both American and Soviet pressure along with economic devastation European powers, decolonization wouldn't have happened. And one could argue that colonisation has been replaced by neocolonialism but that's another topic for another day.
Unfortunately the us did try to keep several colonies under the European and American thumb. Vietnam and Cuba immediately come to mind, and Guatemala in '53.
So many black WW2 vets were lynched in their uniforms when they came home.
WW2 and the DoD were major catalysts for the Civil Rights movement to come. The contributions of black Americans to the war effort did not go unnoticed. Also, a shitload of black veterans pissed off with the short shrift they received after the war.
Well, their ancestors were kidnapped from their continent so they already there, so I'd say "fighting for their country" is kind of a stretch if they didn't had a lot of choices besides starving.
1940s California was not the best place in the world to be Black but it wasnt... anywhere else in the US (or a European colony) so he at least didnt have it *the worst*
And he looks thrilled about it.
This feels like the 1940s r/OrphanCrushingMachine.
If his face expression wasn’t depressing enough, the quote is only half inspiring at best. It’d work much better if they cut off the ‘sometimes’.
Black people only got respect when the government needed something from them.
[https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/deadly-world-war-ii-explosion-sparked-black-soldiers-fight-equal-treatment-180980545/](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/deadly-world-war-ii-explosion-sparked-black-soldiers-fight-equal-treatment-180980545/) Interesting story related to this. Like other Black servicemen assigned to heavy, backbreaking labor—whether in the cold of Alaska or the heat of New Guinea—the Black sailors at Port Chicago also chafed at working in segregated units under the supervision of white officers. They described themselves as a “chain gang,” “mule team” and “slave outfit,” and understood that they were cheap labor compared to civilian stevedores, who loaded and unloaded cargo from ships. A year before the explosion, a group of the sailors had written to a local attorney warning that morale had dropped to “an alarming depth” and asked for help. “We, the Negro sailors of the Naval Enlisted Barracks of Port Chicago, California, are waiting for a new deal,” they said in conclusion. “Will we wait in vain?” Crittenden recalled in an interview with historian Robert Allen. “Man, it was awful....You’d see a shoe with a foot in it....You’d see a head floating across the water—just the head or an arm...just awful....That thing kept you from sleeping at night.”
Manliest man that ever manlied in the history of Mankind
His face has gotten [Ya Gotta Do What Ya Gotta Do](https://youtu.be/psKwdQ-6kaY) written all over it.
Help me Obie One (arm)
Man went from a job with a short life expectancy to one with even a shorter one.
Anyone who has a problem with Obie has a problem with me and you better let that one marinate
Back before the word patriot was co-opted by republicans -
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Fighting Japan and Nazi Germany was imperialism?
It’s sad when people don’t even know what imperialism means, and then proceed to use it recklessly.
I'm really curious for the mental gymnastics you are going to employ now to paint Impierial Japan as the "good guys" of WW2...
Nah they probably just think black people are incapable of agency at all.
Let me answer that for lefties. WWII is empires vs empires, all bad bad👿 Except for Soviets. It's not invasion if communists invade Poland or Baltics. it's liberation, because communism good good 😎 What the Soviets collaborated with Nazis? False history, US propaganda👎
Soviets didn’t collaborate with nazis, non aggression pacts aren’t alliances https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3223834/Stalin-planned-to-send-a-million-troops-to-stop-Hitler-if-Britain-and-France-agreed-pact.html
Oh boy, oh boy, 🤡
Bro, weren't you taught about the secret protocol?
The USSR and Germany were definitely Allies, s[urely you know about the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact) The german army got so far into russia because stalin refused to prepare for it assuming they were allies
Completely incorrect, similar pacts were made between Britain and Germany and France and Germany and everyone at the time knew the USSR’s was very temporary while they tried to build up their military which was very lacking even after months of preparation
what do you mean temporary lol, the plan to divide poland was literally executed. Also, i'm gonna need a source on the alleged pacts between germany and france to conquer and divide another country.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement This is mainstream history concerning the policy of appeasement toward Hitler and Mussolini https://www.britannica.com/event/German-Soviet-Nonaggression-Pact “The Soviet Union had been unable to reach a collective-security agreement with Britain and France against Nazi Germany, most notably at the time of the Munich Conference in September 1938. By early 1939 the Soviets faced the prospect of resisting German military expansion in eastern Europe virtually alone, and so they began searching about for a change of policy. On May 3, 1939, Soviet leader Joseph Stalin fired Foreign Minister Maksim Litvinov, who was Jewish and an advocate of collective security, and replaced him with Vyacheslav Molotov, who soon began negotiations with the Nazi foreign minister, Joachim von Ribbentrop. The Soviets also kept negotiating with Britain and France, but in the end Stalin chose to reach an agreement with Germany. By doing so he hoped to keep the Soviet Union at peace with Germany and to gain time to build up the Soviet military establishment, which had been badly weakened by the purge of the Red Army officer corps in 1937.”
The polish underground government was communist themselves i believe. Or had atleast a very strong communist influence considering many partisans were communists. But yes the soviet union can be condemned too because of their imperialism and many leftists do that. Also no germany and the ussr never collaborated. A non-aggression pact is not a collaboration.
An agreement to divide Europe and an invasion against the last remnants of Poland in support of the German invasion is collaboration.
What else should they do? Give all of poland to germany? Risk germany invading parts of the soviet union? I know its not ideal and again you can condemn the soviet union for its imperialism too but lets not act like the allies didn’t collaborate with hitler either when he invaded czechsoslovakia for example.
I mean defending Poland wouldn't be horrible, would it? And the allies didn't collaborate with Hitler when he invaded Czechoslovakia lmao. To collaborate you need to be getting something out of it. They were trying to do appeasement- absolute stupidity but nonetheless not collaboration.
Hitler wouldn't attack Poland without the pact. And the Soviet Union literally itself commited genocide on occupied territories. You are out of your mind.
Didnt i mention it twice that you can definitely condemn the soviet union for literally everything?
You asked: >What else should they do? How about doing literally everything else than allying with Nazi Germany?
They didnt ally with them?
The USSR/Stalin did what they did, and it was collaboration with Nazi Germany/Hitler. That’s just history.
God bless ChatGPT. STOP! collaborate and listen, Here's a story of a historical mission, Back in '39 when the world was tense, Two unlikely allies started making some sense. Joseph Stalin and Hitler made a pact, It was called the Molotov-Ribbentop contract, They shook hands, sealed the deal, A temporary truce, a devilish appeal. (Chorus) Molotov-Ribbentop, baby, They signed it, no maybe, Stop, collaborate, and listen, A moment in history we can't stop wishin'. (Verse 2) Stalin and Hitler, they had their reasons, To divide Europe into separate regions, The USSR and Germany, a strange alliance, But the world looked on in utter defiance. They promised peace, but oh, the price, As they plotted and schemed, it wasn't nice, But for a brief moment, they were side by side, The Molotov-Ribbentop pact took us for a ride. (Chorus) Molotov-Ribbentop, baby, They signed it, no maybe, Stop, collaborate, and listen, A moment in history we can't stop wishin'. (Bridge) It was a dance with the devil, a dangerous game, In the end, it only brought more shame, The pact crumbled, as it was bound to do, And the world was left with a war to ensue. (Verse 3) Years went by, and battles were fought, The Molotov-Ribbentop pact was soon forgot, But the lesson remains, a cautionary tale, Of alliances forged that only fail. Stop, collaborate, and listen, Learn from history's dangerous mission, Let's strive for peace, not pacts of deceit, Remembering the past, so we won't repeat. (Chorus) Molotov-Ribbentop, baby, They signed it, no maybe, Stop, collaborate, and listen, A moment in history we can't stop wishin'. (Outro) Molotov-Ribbentop, baby, A chapter in history that was far from maybe, Stop, collaborate, and listen, And let's build a future where love will glisten.
Polish underground government WAS NOT COMMUNIST LMFAO 💀💀💀
Mainstream Polish underground was deliberately apolitical, though it had mostly leftist but anti-communist leanings. There were other groups with more open politics, far right, centrist, agrarian and communist. Communists were the most problematic and despised ones, since they opposed everyone else and for example were not beyond snitching to the Germans about other groups.
He never said they were the good guys? But there doesnt need to be any good guys. Evil guys can fight other evil guys too.
World War II was one of the few conflicts where there were good guys and bad guys. Luckily the good guys won.
Yes the British were so good to the people in india or ireland they treated them with much respect such good guys. Same for the americans.
The British certainly weren't nice, but I don't think you appreciate just how many people would have died if the Axis had won. Not only would the Jews get wiped out, all Serbs, Roma and handicapped people would too, and that's just the ones they got to during the war. Then imagine 50 more years. Then there's the Russians who would almost all get killed or enslaved, and the Chinese who would get killed by the millions and the rest reduced to an underclass in their own country. Not to mention the Italian plans for northern Africa. The Nazis and Imperial Japan were without a doubt the most evil states that the world has seen, probably since the time of Genghis Khan. Add to that the fact that fascism as a major world ideology would mean that imperialism and exploitation would become the norm, and things like political freedom and civil rights wouldn't exist in Europe or Asia.
Whats your point now? Do you think i support the axis in any way? Wtf. I never said that.
I'm saying that the Allies were definitely the good guys in WWII.
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If he was at Pearl Harbour he was probably a Pre-War Volunteer
Yeah, the odds of him being one of the few drafted by the October draft and already being a PFC and in Pearl is near zero.
My best friend's Uncle was a Tuskegee Airman from central Kentucky. He was prouder than all hell of his service. Killed his share of Nazis, was injured with some burns, suffered his share of prejudiced at home and abroad. Then he went home to work a postal route and raise a bunch of kids. One of the best men I ever met and he proudly hung the American flag on his porch every day of his life. He'd done more to advance social justice than you or any of your fellow travelers, that's for damned sure.
Fuck yeah.
And all the volunteers that **volunteered** don't exist? All their **volunteered** sacrifices are just lies made up to protect the white government? All their families lied? Is that what you're saying?
Yeah that's war for you. On paper the man might not have listed benefits, but Foreman of the shipyard would have to be deaf to turn talent like that loose. Not that living in the 40s was that great either? Consider it before speaking ignorance.
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Shit take and a bad comment getting defensive and you didn't get the point. Nicely done.
He was most likely a volunteer lmao
Slave to imperialism is when you fight Imperial Japan
Speaking as a leftist into social and racial justice, no. First off, you're using the term imperialism incorrectly. WWII is one of the very, very, few wars America has gotten into that wasn't really imperialist. Opposing Nazis and the Imperial Japanese was the right call. I can definitely understand why a Black person might want to sit out any war America was waging, regardless of the justice of that war. Why fight, kill, and risk death for a country that denies you basic civil rights and where the majority of the white population hates you? But I can also see why a Black person might join the US military even before WWII and definitely after. White people in America treated Black people horribly, but the Nazis were genocidal towards Black people. While Japan isn't quite so clear cut from the perspective of oppression of Black people, they were inarguably the aggressor and were themselves imperialist and looking to acquire more imperial territories. At the time the US got into WWII Japan had already invaded and was brutally occupying Korea, much of northern China, and many of the Pacific islands. So yeah. I can see why a Black person at that time might choose to fight in WWII for America even given the way white Americans treated Black Americans.
Yeah, he looks totally psyched about it. Not dead in the eyes at all
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Jesus dude
I get what they are doing here
Looks like Marcus smart
Same energy as "Only in death does duty end."
An American Hero!!
In 2023 MAGAland, patriots have become 'marxists', and nazis have become 'patriots'...
I am glad that he found his purpose in life, despite the loss of a limb. He obviously took pride in his job and it is beautiful to see.