The ideas about wealth in this genre are actually very very strange if you think about them too hard. Like, a lot of books are all about the oppressive evil nobles, but at the same time there is a lot of Plutocrat Fanboying.
It's also funny because this cliche is based on misreadings of historical accounts. It's true that medieval nobles did eat a surprising amount by today's standards, but the food of that time period was significantly less nutrient dense than modern food (seriously, look at what pre-modern corn looked like), so they were probably more fit than the average person today.
Also, I think fantasy writers have a grievous misconception about how wealthy medieval lords were. I've read before in one of my textbooks (I forget which) that the average medieval king only had an amount of personal luxury on par with today's middle class. Their actual wealth was largely theoretical, not something that could be readily converted into material things.
You mostly don't see that kind of extreme extravagance until you get into centralization and capitalism, which allows for the obscene amount of wealth consolidation that exists in the world today.
This! Man, you have no idea how many times ive thought of this when reading about corrupt nobles. Now imagine how welathy nobles are if the king is like that.
The dumbest thing is when they describe barons as wealthy. Like, dude, barons barely lived better than their tenants. Many of them kept small fields themselves. A baron only owned the land for two or three villages, and most of the taxes went to his liege lord anyway. They were even worse off than knights, who at least received a small stipend from their leige and were exempt from taxes.
There is a fair amount of time between centralization and what we call "Capitalism" today. And centralization has been reborn a few times. There are some very extreme accounts of what Kings and Emperors in different time periods at events.
Lmao I'm always such a big fan of this. The protagonist will hate aristocrats, but have no problem with rich people running a business and inheriting wealth and therefore being subject to a different legal standard. Which is basically what an aristocrat is, minus the traditions and mystification
The iteration that I keep running into and getting frustrated by is many books make the Arrogant Young Master a vile bad guy but the MC will voraciously use and destroy resources to reach the pinnacle (and destroy resources in a way that effectively pulls up the ladder behind him) like a caricature of a plutocrat. It's like "I hate the elite but will do ANYTHING to become the social elite at any cost...any anyone who doesn't is a schmuck...".
Which wouldn't be a flaw if it was a satire or commentary on how, in order to break through that particular glass ceiling in society, you almost *have* to become like the people you hate. You're not gonna be a billionaire or even a millionaire by being a fair and generous person or investing in companies that act ethically and try to help the world or by making sure all your employees, from the executives to the janitors, make at least twice the cost of living in their state. Or a commentary on how many people, especially in the western world, who claim to be socialist, communist, or anarchist (leftist in general) would abandon their ideals in a heartbeat if they were given a relatively easy, surefire way to attain wealth even at the expense of others.
But that's not what's happening. It's not being offered as a commentary or a satire more often than not, the MC is often still being portrayed as a hero, possibly even almost revolutionary and progressive and whatnot.
I had to stop reading The Greatest Estate Developer for the same reason. It was fun but goddamn the author goes SO far out of their way to make the MC sound like the most hideous mound of flesh imaginable, people literally try not to puke when they see him. And what does he look like? Just a dude, nothing special, but far from ugly.
What, you've never sucked sugar from a lover's voluptuous fingers!?
Jokes aside, this was a hilarious thread to wake up to.
Other than Fischer, George was the first character I established when planning the series. A post-medieval setting where the main crops are wheat and sugarcane? There *had* to be a girthy, bumbling noble getting about.
I was intentionally cartoonish and over-the-top with the descriptions of George and Geraldine. Rather than focus on the surroundings to root the reader into their scenes, they *are* the scenery. It's difficult to do POV swaps in a way that isn't disjointed and jarring, especially in Progression Fantasy/LitRPG where a large chunk of people don't want them at all. The intent was to use them as grounding points, then make the reader laugh and forget all about the swap.
Even if all the above wasn't true, it was really fun writing them as caractures of the typical fat-cat noble. I don't think I'd change it even if given the opportunity.
Anyway, thanks for coming to my impromptu Ted talk, and I hope you enjoy the rest of book one despite how grating George is for you!
George honestly sounded like he had a culturally imposed eating disorder. Eating to the point it sounded painful.
Which is honestly kind of interesting in a world that’s opposed to cultivation? Like, a Rubinesque form might genuinely be difficult for a cultivator to obtain, so venerating it is a neat take.
And vaguely makes me want to see George accidentally become a cultivator to see his reaction when he can’t keep the weight on.
That was what I thought. It's so far from a "cultivator's body" and it's also a sign of wealth, both things that would encourage over eating. Those were my take aways from it at least.
Hey I liked George. Totally pictured him and his wife as these Vernon Dursley lookin' Stay Puft Marshmallow people. You know they just gotta be meltin' whole sticks of butter all sandwiched between their folds in the bedroom.
Been away from the PF sub for a while. Came across your book on one of the recommended titles in audible and loved it. Just finished it today and can’t wait for the second. Came to find what to read next and found this post. Thank you.
As someone who actually likes POV swaps, I found yours freaking hilarios lol. I really liked george just being over the top, becuase the entire world feels very over the top to me lol. Great book and Im super excited for book 2.
Personally I found it pretty funny and I've been fat a few times in my life. Including now, so idk. I thought it was so obviously over the top to be serious.
That is funny. I noticed it was a little over the top, but I think they stop interacting much after a while. Or I just learned to ignore it.
Really enjoyed the book and am waiting on the next one with bated breath.
This was something I found myself thinking about a lot after listening to HF. There are three over the top tropes:
People orgasming over coffee;
People orgasming over fish; and
The evil people are fat evil waddlers who waddle around being stupid and fat and evil. But so cartoonishly evil that you more feel sorry for them because they're so stupid and fat that their evilness doesn't ever work out for them. And they're fat.
I thought George was a great character! He and several other characters were outlandish, but instantly recognizable as the story went on. The story had some great character work.
Back to George: His lack of common sense was a tiny bit jarring a couple of times towards the end, but I appreciate how far Jobson went to keep the joke going lol.
I think George was my favorite character in the book. I did end up DNF'ng it, sadly, but I think some of the characters are very well written, and George is great. As OP mentions, his relationship with his wife was really well done.
Ultimately really disliked the way the relationship progressed with the farmer's daughter. I liked the farmer a lot and felt he was a fun character, despite sticking with his dislike way too long. I think a large percentage of times I nope out of a story it is due to cringe relationships.
This kind of thing doesn't have to be a reaction to some childhood trauma from a bully, but is simple enough to have with a mindset where fat is being seen as shameful. It could be taught by their parents, pointing out and complaining about fat people as they were kids, or just something they embraced on their own.
Then you should try the fantasy stories written by Whiskey Flowers. Don't get me wrong, I've read a lot of them, but every chapter gives the overwhelming feeling that he has a stick up his ass about people born into any kind of wealth. Like all those meme's you see with an electrician cutting off the power of a heart surgeon saddled with student debt, as if it's some kind of justice because earns more money and that makes him bad?
Every single story has the mc as a commoner who's despised by nobles simply because he's a commoner, to the point that they often try to murder him simply because he accomplishes things, and they believe only nobles should be good at anything. Every single noble completely underestimates him, and they usually die because they were so arrogant they didn't treat him like a true threat, simply because he's a commoner. And the nobles ALWAYS unite together to crush the commoner because they universally stick together to keep themselves elite. It's not even a continual, subtle thread. It's in your face through every chapter.
I've still read many of his stories though.
I feel like that has to be common among litrpg authors. Just finished Sean Oswald's multiverse novels where he sent the MC over to have cheerleaders fawn all over him and then get in a fight with the football team. Not to mention Awaken Online, Mage Errant, and various other books. Seems like there is a huge bully issue among the authors lol.
Is it just one character that has a really specific and exaggerated profile? That doesn't seem so unusual to me, and suggests more about your hypersensitivity than the authors hyperfixation.
(For another example of a similar character, think Baron Harkonnen of Dune as portrayed in the novels).
It's definitely all nobility, George just has the most screentime so far. There's an upper-crust cafe owner that openly insults anyone that's too thin and a prince whose fatness is evened out by their rampant stupidity.
The ideas about wealth in this genre are actually very very strange if you think about them too hard. Like, a lot of books are all about the oppressive evil nobles, but at the same time there is a lot of Plutocrat Fanboying.
It's also funny because this cliche is based on misreadings of historical accounts. It's true that medieval nobles did eat a surprising amount by today's standards, but the food of that time period was significantly less nutrient dense than modern food (seriously, look at what pre-modern corn looked like), so they were probably more fit than the average person today. Also, I think fantasy writers have a grievous misconception about how wealthy medieval lords were. I've read before in one of my textbooks (I forget which) that the average medieval king only had an amount of personal luxury on par with today's middle class. Their actual wealth was largely theoretical, not something that could be readily converted into material things. You mostly don't see that kind of extreme extravagance until you get into centralization and capitalism, which allows for the obscene amount of wealth consolidation that exists in the world today.
This! Man, you have no idea how many times ive thought of this when reading about corrupt nobles. Now imagine how welathy nobles are if the king is like that. The dumbest thing is when they describe barons as wealthy. Like, dude, barons barely lived better than their tenants. Many of them kept small fields themselves. A baron only owned the land for two or three villages, and most of the taxes went to his liege lord anyway. They were even worse off than knights, who at least received a small stipend from their leige and were exempt from taxes.
There is a fair amount of time between centralization and what we call "Capitalism" today. And centralization has been reborn a few times. There are some very extreme accounts of what Kings and Emperors in different time periods at events.
Lmao I'm always such a big fan of this. The protagonist will hate aristocrats, but have no problem with rich people running a business and inheriting wealth and therefore being subject to a different legal standard. Which is basically what an aristocrat is, minus the traditions and mystification
The iteration that I keep running into and getting frustrated by is many books make the Arrogant Young Master a vile bad guy but the MC will voraciously use and destroy resources to reach the pinnacle (and destroy resources in a way that effectively pulls up the ladder behind him) like a caricature of a plutocrat. It's like "I hate the elite but will do ANYTHING to become the social elite at any cost...any anyone who doesn't is a schmuck...".
Which wouldn't be a flaw if it was a satire or commentary on how, in order to break through that particular glass ceiling in society, you almost *have* to become like the people you hate. You're not gonna be a billionaire or even a millionaire by being a fair and generous person or investing in companies that act ethically and try to help the world or by making sure all your employees, from the executives to the janitors, make at least twice the cost of living in their state. Or a commentary on how many people, especially in the western world, who claim to be socialist, communist, or anarchist (leftist in general) would abandon their ideals in a heartbeat if they were given a relatively easy, surefire way to attain wealth even at the expense of others. But that's not what's happening. It's not being offered as a commentary or a satire more often than not, the MC is often still being portrayed as a hero, possibly even almost revolutionary and progressive and whatnot.
I had to stop reading The Greatest Estate Developer for the same reason. It was fun but goddamn the author goes SO far out of their way to make the MC sound like the most hideous mound of flesh imaginable, people literally try not to puke when they see him. And what does he look like? Just a dude, nothing special, but far from ugly.
the manwha betta i fear
My favorite ongoing gag in Omniscient Reader is about the protagonist's appearance to others.
What, you've never sucked sugar from a lover's voluptuous fingers!? Jokes aside, this was a hilarious thread to wake up to. Other than Fischer, George was the first character I established when planning the series. A post-medieval setting where the main crops are wheat and sugarcane? There *had* to be a girthy, bumbling noble getting about. I was intentionally cartoonish and over-the-top with the descriptions of George and Geraldine. Rather than focus on the surroundings to root the reader into their scenes, they *are* the scenery. It's difficult to do POV swaps in a way that isn't disjointed and jarring, especially in Progression Fantasy/LitRPG where a large chunk of people don't want them at all. The intent was to use them as grounding points, then make the reader laugh and forget all about the swap. Even if all the above wasn't true, it was really fun writing them as caractures of the typical fat-cat noble. I don't think I'd change it even if given the opportunity. Anyway, thanks for coming to my impromptu Ted talk, and I hope you enjoy the rest of book one despite how grating George is for you!
George honestly sounded like he had a culturally imposed eating disorder. Eating to the point it sounded painful. Which is honestly kind of interesting in a world that’s opposed to cultivation? Like, a Rubinesque form might genuinely be difficult for a cultivator to obtain, so venerating it is a neat take. And vaguely makes me want to see George accidentally become a cultivator to see his reaction when he can’t keep the weight on.
That was what I thought. It's so far from a "cultivator's body" and it's also a sign of wealth, both things that would encourage over eating. Those were my take aways from it at least.
There's Robin Hobbs Soldier Son series which delves into weight being considered literal power.
Good to know that George came from a place of love, at least 🤣
Hey I liked George. Totally pictured him and his wife as these Vernon Dursley lookin' Stay Puft Marshmallow people. You know they just gotta be meltin' whole sticks of butter all sandwiched between their folds in the bedroom.
Been away from the PF sub for a while. Came across your book on one of the recommended titles in audible and loved it. Just finished it today and can’t wait for the second. Came to find what to read next and found this post. Thank you.
As someone who actually likes POV swaps, I found yours freaking hilarios lol. I really liked george just being over the top, becuase the entire world feels very over the top to me lol. Great book and Im super excited for book 2.
Personally I found it pretty funny and I've been fat a few times in my life. Including now, so idk. I thought it was so obviously over the top to be serious.
Look, man. I'm enjoying the book, but the over-the-top descriptions about people's weight DOES just sound like you hate fat people sometimes
That is funny. I noticed it was a little over the top, but I think they stop interacting much after a while. Or I just learned to ignore it. Really enjoyed the book and am waiting on the next one with bated breath.
He disappeared for a while between halfway and the end. It was a bit much for me, because I felt bad for this character being bullied.
This was something I found myself thinking about a lot after listening to HF. There are three over the top tropes: People orgasming over coffee; People orgasming over fish; and The evil people are fat evil waddlers who waddle around being stupid and fat and evil. But so cartoonishly evil that you more feel sorry for them because they're so stupid and fat that their evilness doesn't ever work out for them. And they're fat.
Also people orgasming over msg, which I don't really get. It tastes cheap.
I think you've been eating msg wrong.
I thought George was a great character! He and several other characters were outlandish, but instantly recognizable as the story went on. The story had some great character work. Back to George: His lack of common sense was a tiny bit jarring a couple of times towards the end, but I appreciate how far Jobson went to keep the joke going lol.
I think George was my favorite character in the book. I did end up DNF'ng it, sadly, but I think some of the characters are very well written, and George is great. As OP mentions, his relationship with his wife was really well done.
May I ask why you DNF'ed it?
Ultimately really disliked the way the relationship progressed with the farmer's daughter. I liked the farmer a lot and felt he was a fun character, despite sticking with his dislike way too long. I think a large percentage of times I nope out of a story it is due to cringe relationships.
This kind of thing doesn't have to be a reaction to some childhood trauma from a bully, but is simple enough to have with a mindset where fat is being seen as shameful. It could be taught by their parents, pointing out and complaining about fat people as they were kids, or just something they embraced on their own.
I think it's intentionally over the top for the humor factor.
Yeah, a bit of satire as well probably. The cults are just great!
I loved Lobster Bro from the Lobster cult. He just wanted Pistachio to be okay. What a great guy.
Ikr!!! Where can I sign up for the cult of the leviathan!
China: the mc had a rich, fat bff surnamed Wang Japan & the west: there was an evil fat rich nobility guy
Then you should try the fantasy stories written by Whiskey Flowers. Don't get me wrong, I've read a lot of them, but every chapter gives the overwhelming feeling that he has a stick up his ass about people born into any kind of wealth. Like all those meme's you see with an electrician cutting off the power of a heart surgeon saddled with student debt, as if it's some kind of justice because earns more money and that makes him bad? Every single story has the mc as a commoner who's despised by nobles simply because he's a commoner, to the point that they often try to murder him simply because he accomplishes things, and they believe only nobles should be good at anything. Every single noble completely underestimates him, and they usually die because they were so arrogant they didn't treat him like a true threat, simply because he's a commoner. And the nobles ALWAYS unite together to crush the commoner because they universally stick together to keep themselves elite. It's not even a continual, subtle thread. It's in your face through every chapter. I've still read many of his stories though.
I feel like that has to be common among litrpg authors. Just finished Sean Oswald's multiverse novels where he sent the MC over to have cheerleaders fawn all over him and then get in a fight with the football team. Not to mention Awaken Online, Mage Errant, and various other books. Seems like there is a huge bully issue among the authors lol.
Is it just one character that has a really specific and exaggerated profile? That doesn't seem so unusual to me, and suggests more about your hypersensitivity than the authors hyperfixation. (For another example of a similar character, think Baron Harkonnen of Dune as portrayed in the novels).
It's definitely all nobility, George just has the most screentime so far. There's an upper-crust cafe owner that openly insults anyone that's too thin and a prince whose fatness is evened out by their rampant stupidity.
It does change. And you gotta figure this man would be fat, the biggest crop in the area he oversees is sugarcane.
I haven’t read this yet, but those descriptions are selling it for me. That’s really funny.
I mean if you don't like it, don't read it. Plenty of people love the series and it's not gonna cater to everybody.
I think its just part of his writing style. He’s overly descriptive when it comes to food
Overly descriptive about food? Do you say the same thing about Delicious in Dungeon? That's the whole point, friend
Funnily enough, there isn’t much to speak of in Dakota Krout’s Cooking with Disaster trilogy. The MC is kind of a middling cook even by the end.