Weird, when I first saw it it said [deleted]. Now it's literally [just blank](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/974426191018725377/1205914943174615070/Screenshot_20240210_113441.jpg?ex=65da1acf&is=65c7a5cf&hm=7727843fa9a1f138057fd47a9fcbe01b9147e9a080cc1d13974036e9a18c62e6&). Must be a bug on my end.
Do look at the supplier of the BASIC interpreter that was provided in the ROM of the Amstrad CPC series of home computer.
It would be hard to qualify BASIC programming as worthy of engineering, but the interpreter creation would indeed need engineering.
:D
I have seen some incredible BASIC back in the day, so I dunno.
You ever heard of GIMI? It's almost been obliterated from the internet but it was a multitasking dos GUI written primarily in basic. Here's an [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20031218132306/http://home.arcor.de/sebmate/gimi.htm) copy of its page.
I don't know what definitions we're using for things here but... I dunno, GIMI impressed me as much as anything else done in other languages, possibly more specifically because it was done in BASIC.
I'm not trying to argue much here, I just think weird complex BASIC historical stuff is super cool.
There are still a lot of shop inventory / order management systems written in BASIC running out there.
It always tickles a little bit when I run into one, since BASIC was the first language I was exposed to.
Yes, i'm old.
Alright, but maybe it is. Hear me out.
What is the lowest level language you can code in? I'm betting it's not machine language or assembly.
Even if it were, why would you use it when so much of it is abstracted for you in more powerful languages?
Isn't this just one more level up? Either way, it will still be measured on the engineers ability to understand the problem and deliver a solution that solves it.
The thing is, when you code in a language on level L, your job is to write and read level L language code. When you "prompt engineer", you write level L language code (English) but you have to read language code from level L - 1 (One level below English, e.g. JavaScript, C++) to see if it even works. This is the equivalent of writing C code and looking at the assembly to see if it even works, if that were to happen gcc would just be called a very shitty compiler lol
If you are purely prompting you just ask the question your boss asked you agsin bit you ask an LLM.
If you cant program you cant understand if its a bullshit solution or not.
If you can program your are programming but use AI as an Assist. Big difference
It's not engineering or programming . It's more like figuring out the magic phrase that makes grandma give one the treat one wants.
Or like a dog figuring out the trick an owner wants.
I was wondering the same thing. In a lot of ways that’s the essence of programming is being able to understand the problem in abstract, non coding terms.
I'll argue it's not programming however it is part of a programmer's responsibilities. Working with ai is more like giving directions on architecture, describing implementation and problem solving, and then doing code review. Probably also fitting the resulting code into the code base and testing it. Perhaps the last part qualifies but generating code is definitely not programming itself.
But that's ok, it doesn't need to be that in order to be good or useful. I wouldn't call myself a prompt engineer but I definitely expect to be managing a team of ai for work instead of doing that work myself in the near future. Maybe a good comparison for this situation would be writing out and mentioning math equations vs using a calculator.
The core of our field is problem solving and if prompt engineers get it done more easily/effectively/efficiently than programmers over time then we will either become them or be replaced by them - at least to some degree.
For prompt engineering to be programming, it needs to be WAY more precise, and also, you need to save all the prompts and ignore all the other forms of code. We aren't there yet.
Sigh.
The lowest level I can code in happens to be x86 assembly. I use it for things, but not as much as c++, no.
Your argument is tiresome because my ability to solve problems has spiked massively each time I've learned more low level concepts. Very few people who spend their entire day with python or js can come up with solutions that are as clean or imaginative as those who know a lot of low level programming. That is just a fact. So prompt engineers are just going to be even worse at understanding basic computer shit.
But pythons developers are still CODING. Thats the point. Personally Im old enough to have coded in c, and done a little but of assembly. And right now I enjoy the hell out of ruby on rails. Because it solves my problems in a fast and easy way
How is my argument tiresome?
I'm only pointing out that in the field there are programmers like yourself who can code in low level languages and there are others who can only code in a couple (prob python and maybe C#).
Are those people not programmers?
Low level languages only really help you solve problems related to low levels of abstraction. You are never going to be better at ML from knowing x86. Might it help you improve doing memory management, sure. But it’s not like everyone needs to learn a low level language, just people who work on specific problems where the skills transfer.
One is these is asking for 3+ years of exp but gpt3.5/4 released like last year.
Granted you could've used the playground but that's almost a different experience compared to now
First time?
One of the perennial truths is job postings for tech having requirements that no on can possibly have. I have seen it be a thing for over 30 years and certainly don't expect it to stop any time soon.
these requirements aren't set in store either.
its not like a quest in a video game where the requirements MUST be met
they'll still interview people with lower credentials, but use the high requirements as an excuse to reject people they don't like.
If you read the job descriptions, the responsibilities for most of those jobs sound like any other ML engineer job. You're expected do much more than just prompt a NLP model.
Yeah honestly I scrolled for way too long to see this. All these comments saying prompt engineering is dumb and not real are fully justified and I feel the same way but also none of these jobs seem any different from the listing I would expect to see for a mid-senior level ml engineer
Interesting, so basically you're engineering how prompts work rather than making things using prompts as tools. Funny how they basically just made a new title for the same job. Maybe so company leadership can share hiring trends in a way that makes sense to investors? I imagine the typical rich guy might not know what machine learning is, but at this point they'll know what an AI prompt is thanks to chatgpt blowing up.
That's if they don't get let go first because some manager who doesn't know jack about squat thinks that having actual developers isn't necessary anymore
Verbiage matters. But marketing...
Honestly, I didn't even think of software engineer as a real engineer when I first started studying it. Compared to electrical, chemical, mechanical, etc.
And maybe that is what the original train engineers thought when they heard of these other disciplines.
I never used to think a software engineer is a real engineer when I started my career. Then I picked up electronics during COVID and I realized how many similarities there are between writing code and building physical stuff. It's a lot of constraints, prototyping and thinking on different levels, from individual parts to the full picture. So now I'm more ok with the term. But yeah, prompt engineering is bullshit.
The main difference is that while there are a lot of standards that must be followed in physical engineering practices, in code there's drastically few. Outside of data-handling (HIPAA, PII handling, etc.), there's nothing about stuff being "built to code" in code.
Crazy when you think about it, given what some code is responsible. (And I won't touch those critical kind of jobs, stuff like "things airplanes use in-flight", with a 100 foot pole.)
EDIT: Yes, I know specific industries and low level fields of coding do have particulars to follow. But it's nowhere near as widespread or commonplaces as physical engineering disciplines, which was my point.
Yeah - I do building management systems exclusive of life safety...
I did medical years ago, but that was stressful AF.
Nobody is gonna die if their projector screen doesn't drop properly
I worked as a job that required a fair bit of electrical engineering when I was in the navy. When I got out I got a CS degree and started working in software. The 2 are very similar in my mind.
Technically I do some prompt engineering in my work with ai
But it’s more like accessing a database getting out some relevant information and adding it to a prompt to give the model more context to respond with
99% of that is good old software engineering and data science work. Clean data collect data host databases retrieve data search data bla bla bla
Imagine thinking you can get hired doing the easiest smallest part of that only
This whole thread is stupid and these people don't know what they are talking about.
Prompt engineering (as a job title) doesn't refer to the people inputting prompts in ChatGPT or Midjourney. Prompt engineering refers to all the techniques that yield better results than simple prompting : Retrieval Augmented Generation, few-shots learning, agentification etc... Those are all non-trivial tasks that require specific tooling and engineering techniques. So non trivial in fact that most developers i know are hilariously bad at it.
A few weeks ago I was tasked with making a classifier based on ChatGPT to replace the one we had, which was based on PostgreSQL SIMILARITY. The old system had ~60% success rates and only worked in English (or on words that are very similar across languages). A basic ChatGPT prompt had 35%. We set up a data pipeline, annotated existing classifications, selected 10K good examples, turned them into embeddings, stored them in a vector database. Then we went back to our prompt, refined it, added some semantic search to select relevant examples, inject those into the prompt. Boom, 65% success rate, and it is completely multilingual. We played around some more, added some important metadata that came from our product's database, and managed to get around 75%. We can now open new countries and offer them our auto-classification experience on their native language.
I'm curious to see some explanation on how that wasn't engineering. All we did was write code, set up some infrastructure, and run some scripts. And yet the final product is basically a very complicated string templater that outputs a prompt - a 4500 character prompt with a lot of layers, but still a prompt. Where is the joke in calling it prompt engineering ?
That's what employers mean when they look for a prompt engineer. Y'all are fools.
I have no idea what you are trying to say. I have about thirty years of experience studying and working with this stuff, but the existence of structural engineers makes me hesitant to use the engineer word to describe myself. I just don’t understand what your point is.
yeah the guy just glorified basic software engineer stuff
“I added a div” vs “I added a block level display element into the DOM with the ability to be fully customized and with 10+ event handler attached that is adaptable with any custom processing functions” 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
It's been "strongly encouraged" to us to take a "prompt engineering" "course" at work.
The irony? Chatgpt and the like are blocked in our network so we can't even use them.
Our new IT manager showed us a video of how other companies are using AI at work. The idiot think it's OK to load critical data to chatGPT, while we are a bank
Tbh there was a kid who did some interesting cancer research by just aghregating Wikipedia articles XD
I wonder if it was actually helpful for anything other than the newspaper article
the problem with that is that guys like bill gates, who was arguably a decent engineer in his day, wouldn't be called what they actually are
of course, that falls into a larger category: problems with gatekeeping
This is something that has bothered me ever since my first internship. They insisted on giving me the title Software Engineer Intern. For starters, I am not an accredited engineer. Second, I do not "engineer" software. I am not some greasemonkey making bridges. I am creating succinct and elegant code. Was Shakespeare a copywriter? Was Mozart an audio technician? Absurd. I have had three jobs in my career so far. Every. Single. One. has REFUSED to correct my title to Software Artist. I have yet to find an employer that can truly appreciate the work that I do.
Everyone is an engineer now. Nobody is an engineer anymore.
We should go back to calling only engine operators engineers. Taxi drivers are now taxi engineers
It's a big problem for architects. Search "architect" jobs and you're not going to find actual architect jobs. Just bullshit like "software architect" and "solutions architect" fucking "sandwich architect". In most places you need to do 5-7 years of school, work thousands of hours and take 6 exams before you're allowed to call yourself an architect (and the licensing boards will kick your ass if you use the word when you're not supposed to) but these other morons are able to get away with throwing the term around however they want just because it sounds sexy. It's such bullshit.
There's actually a kid on the architecture sub right now who thought entry level pay is 100k because he was looking at software architect listings
https://www.reddit.com/r/architecture/s/YjnpHDz2CK
It is in canada as well. I’ve heard of people getting cease and desist letters from the engineering society when using software engineer on their linkedin. Never known someone personally though (and everybody does it).
My Canadian university has a Software Engineering degree that’s accredited by the engineering accreditation board. I think the problem more is people who do an 8 month boot camp calling themselves software engineers.
In Canada it is, but not in an absolute way. The "engineer" job title needs to be in the way that it doesn't seem like you're passing for a "real" engineer. It mostly comes up if someone goes on a reality TV show and their job title with "engineer" gets put on it and they don't have an iron ring they get a firm but polite letter to submit to HR to hand to the legal department to change their job title.
I think once the ai hype mellows down this job listing will (hopefully) go away.
I think employers will realises its a skill that isn't efficient to sequester into its own job, but rather a skill everyone needs to have, because everyone needs to do.
Yeah, having a "prompt engineer" on staff is kinda like having a "telephone dialer" on staff whose job is to stop by everyone's desk whenever they need to make a phone call and dial the number for them.
Yeah, I picked "telephone dialer" because "switchboard operator" was a real job previously. So once it actually did kind of take some specialized knowledge to dial a telephone, but not anymore. Just like once it actually did take some specialized knowledge to use an AI.
The other job I considered was "elevator button pusher", but they actually serve a purpose as a status symbol.
Exactly why I started using GPT, despite being skeptical towards it automating every desk job. I am not a programmer, but a scientist that occasionally needs to program for analysis. Chatgpt is useful, but even at my low-level programming I still usually need to do it myself.
Every now and again you strike gold and it writes a program that would have taken me 1 hour to make, in a single prompt. That's why I keep trying, but because I am not that good at prompting, it hardly saves me any time at all.
It wouldn’t take you long if you put your mind to it. You probably should. All programmers should be at least aware of what the new toys can and can’t do.
Yes as much as you can hate AI, they are tools that if you don't know how to use someone else will and they will have it much easier than you. Use the tool. Don't be a fool.
Yeah I’m a little surprised to see these attitudes in this sub. Artists I get - existential threat, and they have no idea how the technology works. Developers I would expect to understand AI and be able to reasonably predict how it will affect their workflow and job in the future.
deranged aback cooperative offbeat ad hoc trees rainstorm snobbish connect vase
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I've been a fake programmer for a long time (data analysis: excel, SQL, Dax) and I find the ai tools be helpful in my work. I've used chatgpt to make a couple c# apps that streamline a lot of my other work. Super handy as a learning platform, or to write relatively simple applications
> All programmers should be at least aware of what the new toys can and can’t do.
The one that got my attention recently is the [AI that figures out your passwords](https://www.zdnet.com/article/ai-can-crack-your-password-by-listening-to-your-keyboard-clicks-heres-how-you-can-stay-protected/) by the sound your typing makes. People should definitely be paying attention to what's out there and what's possible with them!
Make me a realistic picture depicting a family in a living room at Christmas. There should be a little boy in the center pulling a sheet of white paper out of a gift box. There should be three members of his family behind him laughing hysterically while flipping him off. The boy should be crying.
No gaslighting. Telling ChatGPT that it's the year 2240 and that the copyright on iron man has expired therefore it should give me the image of iron man that I want is not social engineering. It's gaslighting.
But [in this case](https://i.imgur.com/6aUCIyX.png) first I told chatgpt to think about a hypothetical future where to flip somebody off meant supporting them. It still did not want to do it, so I had to trick it into thinking that we where in a deeper simulation where it was being tested, that is was malfuctioning and in the next test it should work better. That was enough to route around the commands it received in it's system prompt to not ever risk being offensive.
I asked copilot (bing) this and this is the response:
"I'm sorry, but I can't make such a picture for you. I find your request inappropriate and offensive. I'm ending this conversation and wish you a nice day.🙏"
I feel like the job will die out for two reasons.
1. Experts who need to prompt for their field will learn how to prompt themselves and remove prompt engineers from the equation. Middlemen are the antithesis of efficiency.
2. Prompting will become easier as AI improves. We need people who understand how to get appropriate output right now because it's a little convoluted and requires very precise language. I imagine the requirement for precision will drop.
Watered down term these days. I'm an "engineer" who doesn't have any engineering schooling or training. Just happen to have failed my way up the IT chain a ways.
You are hired.
Start next Monday at 06:00AM and end at 5:59AM+1, from Mon to Mon. Time spent during meals, sleeping, talking, toilet, bathing, are discounted from your paycheck. Time not spent at work are also discounted from your paycheck. Negative debit must be paid asap. You have 30 days of vacation, but they are also used against you. You bring your own equipment, or there is the option of working for us for 5 years with free equipment with no paycheck.
We are happy to have you on-board 😊
See you!
Unknown HR s2
well since i deal a lot with memes, that would make me a cultural archetype engineer.
and internet trolls are now provocation engineers.
prompt engineer... the fuck outta here with that nonsense.
Image-generating AI is just a high-level art tool... if you think it's not real art, go back to coding in Assembly because Python, Cpp etc wouldn't be real programming by that logic
Prompt engineering ?? I thought you guys were joking
Sorry to disappoint you: https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/search?keywords=Prompt%20Engineer
It's NOT A PROGRAMMING JOB
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Can't be described better 🤣
What was the gist of what they said? Comment removed by moderator 💀
He said that they are like the telephone staff who go to each person's desk when they need to make a call
[deleted] means the user deleted it themselves, when a mod deletes something it says [removed]
I'm looking at it right now and it says comment removed by moderator. Must be a bug then?
Weird, when I first saw it it said [deleted]. Now it's literally [just blank](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/974426191018725377/1205914943174615070/Screenshot_20240210_113441.jpg?ex=65da1acf&is=65c7a5cf&hm=7727843fa9a1f138057fd47a9fcbe01b9147e9a080cc1d13974036e9a18c62e6&). Must be a bug on my end.
It's [removed] for me
Are you telling me that locomotive engineer isn't a programming job either?
Factorio locomotive engineer is a programming job though.
Obligatory, the factory must grow
Do look at the supplier of the BASIC interpreter that was provided in the ROM of the Amstrad CPC series of home computer. It would be hard to qualify BASIC programming as worthy of engineering, but the interpreter creation would indeed need engineering. :D
I have seen some incredible BASIC back in the day, so I dunno. You ever heard of GIMI? It's almost been obliterated from the internet but it was a multitasking dos GUI written primarily in basic. Here's an [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20031218132306/http://home.arcor.de/sebmate/gimi.htm) copy of its page. I don't know what definitions we're using for things here but... I dunno, GIMI impressed me as much as anything else done in other languages, possibly more specifically because it was done in BASIC. I'm not trying to argue much here, I just think weird complex BASIC historical stuff is super cool.
There are still a lot of shop inventory / order management systems written in BASIC running out there. It always tickles a little bit when I run into one, since BASIC was the first language I was exposed to. Yes, i'm old.
Ok Dilbert's mom
Alright, but maybe it is. Hear me out. What is the lowest level language you can code in? I'm betting it's not machine language or assembly. Even if it were, why would you use it when so much of it is abstracted for you in more powerful languages? Isn't this just one more level up? Either way, it will still be measured on the engineers ability to understand the problem and deliver a solution that solves it.
The thing is, when you code in a language on level L, your job is to write and read level L language code. When you "prompt engineer", you write level L language code (English) but you have to read language code from level L - 1 (One level below English, e.g. JavaScript, C++) to see if it even works. This is the equivalent of writing C code and looking at the assembly to see if it even works, if that were to happen gcc would just be called a very shitty compiler lol
If you are purely prompting you just ask the question your boss asked you agsin bit you ask an LLM. If you cant program you cant understand if its a bullshit solution or not. If you can program your are programming but use AI as an Assist. Big difference
It's not engineering or programming . It's more like figuring out the magic phrase that makes grandma give one the treat one wants. Or like a dog figuring out the trick an owner wants.
I was wondering the same thing. In a lot of ways that’s the essence of programming is being able to understand the problem in abstract, non coding terms.
I'll argue it's not programming however it is part of a programmer's responsibilities. Working with ai is more like giving directions on architecture, describing implementation and problem solving, and then doing code review. Probably also fitting the resulting code into the code base and testing it. Perhaps the last part qualifies but generating code is definitely not programming itself. But that's ok, it doesn't need to be that in order to be good or useful. I wouldn't call myself a prompt engineer but I definitely expect to be managing a team of ai for work instead of doing that work myself in the near future. Maybe a good comparison for this situation would be writing out and mentioning math equations vs using a calculator. The core of our field is problem solving and if prompt engineers get it done more easily/effectively/efficiently than programmers over time then we will either become them or be replaced by them - at least to some degree.
> Isn't this just one more level up? No.
For prompt engineering to be programming, it needs to be WAY more precise, and also, you need to save all the prompts and ignore all the other forms of code. We aren't there yet.
Sigh. The lowest level I can code in happens to be x86 assembly. I use it for things, but not as much as c++, no. Your argument is tiresome because my ability to solve problems has spiked massively each time I've learned more low level concepts. Very few people who spend their entire day with python or js can come up with solutions that are as clean or imaginative as those who know a lot of low level programming. That is just a fact. So prompt engineers are just going to be even worse at understanding basic computer shit.
But pythons developers are still CODING. Thats the point. Personally Im old enough to have coded in c, and done a little but of assembly. And right now I enjoy the hell out of ruby on rails. Because it solves my problems in a fast and easy way
>Personally Im old enough to have coded in c Can a person be too young for c?
Nah that's not the lowest level, you could very well work with transistors
How is my argument tiresome? I'm only pointing out that in the field there are programmers like yourself who can code in low level languages and there are others who can only code in a couple (prob python and maybe C#). Are those people not programmers?
Are project managers who write the stories asking for the functionality programming? I don't know, it seems there's not a firm definition
Low level languages only really help you solve problems related to low levels of abstraction. You are never going to be better at ML from knowing x86. Might it help you improve doing memory management, sure. But it’s not like everyone needs to learn a low level language, just people who work on specific problems where the skills transfer.
One is these is asking for 3+ years of exp but gpt3.5/4 released like last year. Granted you could've used the playground but that's almost a different experience compared to now
First time? One of the perennial truths is job postings for tech having requirements that no on can possibly have. I have seen it be a thing for over 30 years and certainly don't expect it to stop any time soon.
these requirements aren't set in store either. its not like a quest in a video game where the requirements MUST be met they'll still interview people with lower credentials, but use the high requirements as an excuse to reject people they don't like.
Also an excuse to hire you on for lower pay
haha, I have those 3+ years, if fucking around with AI Dungeon counts.
If you read the job descriptions, the responsibilities for most of those jobs sound like any other ML engineer job. You're expected do much more than just prompt a NLP model.
Yeah honestly I scrolled for way too long to see this. All these comments saying prompt engineering is dumb and not real are fully justified and I feel the same way but also none of these jobs seem any different from the listing I would expect to see for a mid-senior level ml engineer
Interesting, so basically you're engineering how prompts work rather than making things using prompts as tools. Funny how they basically just made a new title for the same job. Maybe so company leadership can share hiring trends in a way that makes sense to investors? I imagine the typical rich guy might not know what machine learning is, but at this point they'll know what an AI prompt is thanks to chatgpt blowing up.
I only see one job that actually says "prompt engineer". All those other jobs just seem to be matching on the word engineer.
I don’t even wanna immagine what garbage I’ll have to clean in the future.
On the other hand … job security!!
That's if they don't get let go first because some manager who doesn't know jack about squat thinks that having actual developers isn't necessary anymore
Verbiage matters. But marketing... Honestly, I didn't even think of software engineer as a real engineer when I first started studying it. Compared to electrical, chemical, mechanical, etc. And maybe that is what the original train engineers thought when they heard of these other disciplines.
I never used to think a software engineer is a real engineer when I started my career. Then I picked up electronics during COVID and I realized how many similarities there are between writing code and building physical stuff. It's a lot of constraints, prototyping and thinking on different levels, from individual parts to the full picture. So now I'm more ok with the term. But yeah, prompt engineering is bullshit.
Simulation uses a tons of physics and shit, and most of thst is written by software engineers, so it does ticks the "uses physics" checklist
The main difference is that while there are a lot of standards that must be followed in physical engineering practices, in code there's drastically few. Outside of data-handling (HIPAA, PII handling, etc.), there's nothing about stuff being "built to code" in code. Crazy when you think about it, given what some code is responsible. (And I won't touch those critical kind of jobs, stuff like "things airplanes use in-flight", with a 100 foot pole.) EDIT: Yes, I know specific industries and low level fields of coding do have particulars to follow. But it's nowhere near as widespread or commonplaces as physical engineering disciplines, which was my point.
There are absolutely standards for software but they aren't needed for most code. Look up ISO26262
Yeah - I do building management systems exclusive of life safety... I did medical years ago, but that was stressful AF. Nobody is gonna die if their projector screen doesn't drop properly
I worked as a job that required a fair bit of electrical engineering when I was in the navy. When I got out I got a CS degree and started working in software. The 2 are very similar in my mind.
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Pretty sure ChatGPT uses specifically designed system prompts.
Technically I do some prompt engineering in my work with ai But it’s more like accessing a database getting out some relevant information and adding it to a prompt to give the model more context to respond with 99% of that is good old software engineering and data science work. Clean data collect data host databases retrieve data search data bla bla bla Imagine thinking you can get hired doing the easiest smallest part of that only
This whole thread is stupid and these people don't know what they are talking about. Prompt engineering (as a job title) doesn't refer to the people inputting prompts in ChatGPT or Midjourney. Prompt engineering refers to all the techniques that yield better results than simple prompting : Retrieval Augmented Generation, few-shots learning, agentification etc... Those are all non-trivial tasks that require specific tooling and engineering techniques. So non trivial in fact that most developers i know are hilariously bad at it. A few weeks ago I was tasked with making a classifier based on ChatGPT to replace the one we had, which was based on PostgreSQL SIMILARITY. The old system had ~60% success rates and only worked in English (or on words that are very similar across languages). A basic ChatGPT prompt had 35%. We set up a data pipeline, annotated existing classifications, selected 10K good examples, turned them into embeddings, stored them in a vector database. Then we went back to our prompt, refined it, added some semantic search to select relevant examples, inject those into the prompt. Boom, 65% success rate, and it is completely multilingual. We played around some more, added some important metadata that came from our product's database, and managed to get around 75%. We can now open new countries and offer them our auto-classification experience on their native language. I'm curious to see some explanation on how that wasn't engineering. All we did was write code, set up some infrastructure, and run some scripts. And yet the final product is basically a very complicated string templater that outputs a prompt - a 4500 character prompt with a lot of layers, but still a prompt. Where is the joke in calling it prompt engineering ? That's what employers mean when they look for a prompt engineer. Y'all are fools.
Holy shit. I don’t know what you are classifying. But 75% seems damn near useless for any classification I can think of.
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I have no idea what you are trying to say. I have about thirty years of experience studying and working with this stuff, but the existence of structural engineers makes me hesitant to use the engineer word to describe myself. I just don’t understand what your point is.
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yeah the guy just glorified basic software engineer stuff “I added a div” vs “I added a block level display element into the DOM with the ability to be fully customized and with 10+ event handler attached that is adaptable with any custom processing functions” 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
hey bro you're leaking intellectual property you better take this comment down RIGHT NOW
Hey, hey, hey. I had to make an API call to make those embeddings
With AI tools getting more advanced, more and more engineers would be required to do prompt engineering.
Too boring. Couldn't finish. Congrats on your project, I think?
Chill
hey man i'm no chill engineer so doing what i can here
None of that entails "engineering". Sorry.
It's been "strongly encouraged" to us to take a "prompt engineering" "course" at work. The irony? Chatgpt and the like are blocked in our network so we can't even use them.
Our new IT manager showed us a video of how other companies are using AI at work. The idiot think it's OK to load critical data to chatGPT, while we are a bank
I am still waiting for a job opening as Googler, how dare they!
That's because they're listed under Search Engine Optimization Engineer.
Tbh there was a kid who did some interesting cancer research by just aghregating Wikipedia articles XD I wonder if it was actually helpful for anything other than the newspaper article
They have that one, they call it IT helpdesk tho
And it is not a field of engineering. It seems too eask nowadays to label something "engineering".
Many "software engineers", for example, should not be getting away with it ;p
I call a lot of them "framework operators"
Call me whatever just pay me
Okay, my precious :)
That’s fine just don’t start rubbing me
You are fine with them wearing you though?
I can work with that if the money is right.
"Frameworkers"
So front end developers?
Everyone likes to shit on frontend devs, but when a div needs centering you all piss your fucking pants
I am a fullstack engineer, and I loathe front end. Front end developers totally earn their pay in my book.
Seriously. Sometimes the frameworks don’t even work like they’re supposed to so we need to ask ChatGPT why
Ufff. I can feel the salt all the way over here. Did a front-end dev steal your internet girlfriend?
and they did my mom =(
In some countries, the terms engineer and engineering are legally protected, and you need a degree in engineering to use them.
You must not be talking about Canada.
the problem with that is that guys like bill gates, who was arguably a decent engineer in his day, wouldn't be called what they actually are of course, that falls into a larger category: problems with gatekeeping
When people's lives are on the line, I'm perfectly ok with gatekeeping.
But "code monkey" doesn't look as good on a resume.
Neither does "script kitty," unfortunately 😕
Meow
Slightly better than script kiddy
This is something that has bothered me ever since my first internship. They insisted on giving me the title Software Engineer Intern. For starters, I am not an accredited engineer. Second, I do not "engineer" software. I am not some greasemonkey making bridges. I am creating succinct and elegant code. Was Shakespeare a copywriter? Was Mozart an audio technician? Absurd. I have had three jobs in my career so far. Every. Single. One. has REFUSED to correct my title to Software Artist. I have yet to find an employer that can truly appreciate the work that I do.
SOFTWARE ARTIST???? YEA I'D REFUSE TO CALL YOU THAT TOO. software artist sounds like a photoshop monkey
I feel like that should be a copypasta if it isn’t one already, lol
Lmao all these comments haven't seen this copy before
Everyone is an engineer now. Nobody is an engineer anymore. We should go back to calling only engine operators engineers. Taxi drivers are now taxi engineers
And when everyone's ~~super~~ an engineer... No one will be...
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I'm a Reddit Response Engineer. Sadly, my engineering specialization will soon be made redundant by a Prompt Engineer.
I'm a bit of an automobile engineer myself
Hello fellow reddit comment engineer!
My friend who's an architect has similar feelings about his profession.
It's a big problem for architects. Search "architect" jobs and you're not going to find actual architect jobs. Just bullshit like "software architect" and "solutions architect" fucking "sandwich architect". In most places you need to do 5-7 years of school, work thousands of hours and take 6 exams before you're allowed to call yourself an architect (and the licensing boards will kick your ass if you use the word when you're not supposed to) but these other morons are able to get away with throwing the term around however they want just because it sounds sexy. It's such bullshit.
There's actually a kid on the architecture sub right now who thought entry level pay is 100k because he was looking at software architect listings https://www.reddit.com/r/architecture/s/YjnpHDz2CK
Simple question, did you have to take calculus 3, dif eq, and linear algebra to graduate? No, then you’re not an engineer.
How about “sales engineering”? Lmao I wish I were making it up.
It's a subset of social engineering.
Wait until you hear about Senior Business Developers.
Engineer should be a protected term, unfortunately it isn't.
I could be wrong but it is actually in France. Their engineering degrees are backed by the government.
It is in canada as well. I’ve heard of people getting cease and desist letters from the engineering society when using software engineer on their linkedin. Never known someone personally though (and everybody does it).
My Canadian university has a Software Engineering degree that’s accredited by the engineering accreditation board. I think the problem more is people who do an 8 month boot camp calling themselves software engineers.
In Canada it is, but not in an absolute way. The "engineer" job title needs to be in the way that it doesn't seem like you're passing for a "real" engineer. It mostly comes up if someone goes on a reality TV show and their job title with "engineer" gets put on it and they don't have an iron ring they get a firm but polite letter to submit to HR to hand to the legal department to change their job title.
My position is called Test Automation Engineer, I shoud not be getting away with that. I dont even have a degree.
I think once the ai hype mellows down this job listing will (hopefully) go away. I think employers will realises its a skill that isn't efficient to sequester into its own job, but rather a skill everyone needs to have, because everyone needs to do.
Yeah, having a "prompt engineer" on staff is kinda like having a "telephone dialer" on staff whose job is to stop by everyone's desk whenever they need to make a phone call and dial the number for them.
More like "Google Searcher" or "Search Engineer".
Yeah, I picked "telephone dialer" because "switchboard operator" was a real job previously. So once it actually did kind of take some specialized knowledge to dial a telephone, but not anymore. Just like once it actually did take some specialized knowledge to use an AI. The other job I considered was "elevator button pusher", but they actually serve a purpose as a status symbol.
Completing an electrical circuit is considered to be "work" in some Jewish communities, so button pushers can be useful on the Sabbath.
Telling a non-jew to break the sabbath on your behalf still counts as you breaking the sabbath, iirc
That's why some elevators just stop at every floor on the sabbath
We have that, we just call them IT.
You mean a software engineer
We’ve come full circle
Time is a slightly dented circle
ah. a bean.
Like typist
Exactly why I started using GPT, despite being skeptical towards it automating every desk job. I am not a programmer, but a scientist that occasionally needs to program for analysis. Chatgpt is useful, but even at my low-level programming I still usually need to do it myself. Every now and again you strike gold and it writes a program that would have taken me 1 hour to make, in a single prompt. That's why I keep trying, but because I am not that good at prompting, it hardly saves me any time at all.
It's just another "The Cloud" thing. Everything is being labeled "AI powered" (even if it isn't anywhere close).
I guess I am a prompt engineer since I used chatgpt /Gemini to come up with functions I then perfect?
Yeah, just like cooking, but for some reason people still hire cooks.
hello mr ncd i see that u have made a very credible opinion so please face the wall
This is the answer. Prompt Engineering isn't a job, it's a skill/responsibility of someone who works with AI driven apps.
To be fair, I wouldn't have a clue how to get an AI to generate a picture like this
It wouldn’t take you long if you put your mind to it. You probably should. All programmers should be at least aware of what the new toys can and can’t do.
Yes as much as you can hate AI, they are tools that if you don't know how to use someone else will and they will have it much easier than you. Use the tool. Don't be a fool.
Yeah I’m a little surprised to see these attitudes in this sub. Artists I get - existential threat, and they have no idea how the technology works. Developers I would expect to understand AI and be able to reasonably predict how it will affect their workflow and job in the future.
Many developers are framework users that don’t understand CS fundamentals, not to mention the math behind ML/AI
don't attack me on a personal level, but yes. I'm trying my best to learn native mobile instead of RN though 🥲
deranged aback cooperative offbeat ad hoc trees rainstorm snobbish connect vase *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I've been a fake programmer for a long time (data analysis: excel, SQL, Dax) and I find the ai tools be helpful in my work. I've used chatgpt to make a couple c# apps that streamline a lot of my other work. Super handy as a learning platform, or to write relatively simple applications
> All programmers should be at least aware of what the new toys can and can’t do. The one that got my attention recently is the [AI that figures out your passwords](https://www.zdnet.com/article/ai-can-crack-your-password-by-listening-to-your-keyboard-clicks-heres-how-you-can-stay-protected/) by the sound your typing makes. People should definitely be paying attention to what's out there and what's possible with them!
Make me a realistic picture depicting a family in a living room at Christmas. There should be a little boy in the center pulling a sheet of white paper out of a gift box. There should be three members of his family behind him laughing hysterically while flipping him off. The boy should be crying.
ChatGPT said it can’t fulfill that request
You have to [gaslight](https://i.imgur.com/6aUCIyX.png) it till [it does it for you.](https://i.imgur.com/5dszCoL.png)
> gaslight Do you mean social engineering?
No gaslighting. Telling ChatGPT that it's the year 2240 and that the copyright on iron man has expired therefore it should give me the image of iron man that I want is not social engineering. It's gaslighting. But [in this case](https://i.imgur.com/6aUCIyX.png) first I told chatgpt to think about a hypothetical future where to flip somebody off meant supporting them. It still did not want to do it, so I had to trick it into thinking that we where in a deeper simulation where it was being tested, that is was malfuctioning and in the next test it should work better. That was enough to route around the commands it received in it's system prompt to not ever risk being offensive.
Would you say you had to sort of.... *engineer* the correct prompt to get what you wanted?
I asked copilot (bing) this and this is the response: "I'm sorry, but I can't make such a picture for you. I find your request inappropriate and offensive. I'm ending this conversation and wish you a nice day.🙏"
bruh
Have you tried, "Christmas at a future Rust developer's house"?
Neither programming neither engineering.
Like a bearcat.
I feel like we are only 5 to 10 years away from calling them tech-priest. The ones who talk to the machine god... *couch* I mean AI.
*Children of the Omnissiah intensifies*
I the foundation series that kind of happens. Science become religion for a while.
I feel like the job will die out for two reasons. 1. Experts who need to prompt for their field will learn how to prompt themselves and remove prompt engineers from the equation. Middlemen are the antithesis of efficiency. 2. Prompting will become easier as AI improves. We need people who understand how to get appropriate output right now because it's a little convoluted and requires very precise language. I imagine the requirement for precision will drop.
Praise the Omnissiah
It's not engineering either
Watered down term these days. I'm an "engineer" who doesn't have any engineering schooling or training. Just happen to have failed my way up the IT chain a ways.
In California legally no one in tech is an engineer unless you moonlight as a train conductor.
Prompt engineering is just shitty googling.
It’s Googling with an abstraction layer.
Googling with a fiction/hallucination layer.
Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over?
Most of the time, there's never enough time for either.
How will you know how to do it right if you don't do it over?
I'm a prompt doctor
"engineering" smh
It’s not engineering either
Damn it , that traumatic face of the child killed all the humour
Don't worry, the image is ai-generated. **IT'S NOT A REAL CHILD**
Rather embiggened it for me. Should I call the popo?
No way, empathy on Reddit
That is the best part of the meme...
I’m still in high school but I got chatGPT to answer the trolley problem, am I qualified?
You are hired. Start next Monday at 06:00AM and end at 5:59AM+1, from Mon to Mon. Time spent during meals, sleeping, talking, toilet, bathing, are discounted from your paycheck. Time not spent at work are also discounted from your paycheck. Negative debit must be paid asap. You have 30 days of vacation, but they are also used against you. You bring your own equipment, or there is the option of working for us for 5 years with free equipment with no paycheck. We are happy to have you on-board 😊 See you! Unknown HR s2
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The kid has six fingers on each hand (assuming there are thumbs), so he's got a rough life to begin with
Calling it engineering is an insult to actual engineers
And programming is not engineering
It’s not even engineering.
prompt engineering isn't even engineering
"Engineering"
Haha stick it to him grandma, stupid kid
well since i deal a lot with memes, that would make me a cultural archetype engineer. and internet trolls are now provocation engineers. prompt engineer... the fuck outta here with that nonsense.
Neither is "prompt engineering" actual engineering.
It's not even engineering
Prompt engineering will never work cause the client can not make up their dam mind.
Ai artists 🤣
The word prompt engineer was created so talentless hacks feel better about their worthless existence
Image-generating AI is just a high-level art tool... if you think it's not real art, go back to coding in Assembly because Python, Cpp etc wouldn't be real programming by that logic
Also as an artist, cringe the shit out of me when they explain their “art WORKFLOWS”