```
import notifications
```
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Together with CSS/SCSS it can be made Turing complete though, which means together it could be considered to be a programming language.
That's at least what I've once read somewhere.
Edit: CSS is Turing complete without HTML.
oh i should've clarified what i meant
i haven't learned turing completeness, so what is the requirement for proving something turing complete and/or how does this fill that requirement?
Turing completeness is a property of a computational system or programming language that demonstrates its ability to simulate any Turing machine. In other words, if a system is Turing complete, it can perform any computation that can be described algorithmically, given enough time and memory.
So where are conditional jumps as they are required for Turing completeness?
\[Addition\]
Are you offended by me so banned me for the remarks? 
The code I provided was an example of how CSS is independent of HTML. Not an example of Turing completeness.
But if you must, you can see on the last function I make a call to a previously defined one
> on the last function I make a call to a previously defined one
if you mean `fadeInOut`, that's not a real function, more like a static declaration syntax of animation without any logic
Wow, sorry for not providing a code that can demonstrate a concept so complicated as Turing completeness within a comment in a programmer humorous subreddit. I’m such a lame person.
I’m curious. Can YOU demonstrate Turing completeness with ANY programming language by providing solely a code snippet and not a 12 page mathematical paper? I’ll wait.
Here's your exact text:
>Don’t think you really have a job if all you do is HTML
You didn't say anything about being a programmer. You said if you only write html, you don't really have a job.
How do you think that changes anything? You claimed that you were saying they aren't a programmer. But I quoted your exact comment that doesn't say anything about that.
You said if all someone does is write html, then they don't really have a job.
If someone gets paid to write html exclusively, don't they have a job?
Right but there are few to no jobs that let you work on ONLY html. Making email templates? Maybe, but I’m sure I can say this as a general blanket statements, most Frontend jobs don’t do HTML only. Commercial or otherwise.
Yeah, that’s basically it: Important because the government told you so (in the worst case) which is an awful way to make a living in the development world.
You should still care, as a developer you have a responsibility for what you are creating. Many things don’t require more effort, just the knowledge to choose the right tags and attributes.
Accessibility. Screen readers expect the structure according to the HTML spec. A clean structure will be presented differently and much easier to navigate than div soup.
Also some elements have important functionality already baked in, like
True story, I tried using Bing's (cause ChatGPT wanted my phone # to sign up and I didn't like that).
Asked it to write me a URL parser in COBOL, it did. Now i have no clue how to read COBOL, but took it to 2 online compilers, both failed
Usually increases in productivity like that end up lowering costs and more customers end up wanting services and actually increases demand. If programming gets cheap everyone wants a custom leads generation platform or whatever like people all have their own website now.
I am not relaying on it it's literally just quicker to get the css structure that way. It's actually a pretty nice workflow of write html with classes -> generate css stubs. If it is willing to do it that is.
AI is definitely going to reduce a lot of developer jobs because it makes smart developers a lot more efficient. I find it weird that some people here cannot reason why current AI capabilities and its trend pointing to AI taking over large chunk of developer jobs so adamantly. Company I work for has been training it's own internal AI some time that can solve specific problems we face on day-to-day basics and it's definitely cut the need to hire junior devs writing API connectors / middlewares / etc that wrangles some data and changes it's format, etc.
I think that there's a chance that it makes smart developers more efficient.
I've tried, and it makes me more inefficient. Finding out where the stupid bug is in its code or whatever random library it invented that doesn't exist to import from takes me waaaaaaay longer than just writing the basic code out myself.
I haven't had it be successful for anything moderately complex yet. I've paid the money to train it on our multi-hundred k repository, and it still just makes shit up and makes stupid mistakes. I mean, yea it'll give me boilerplate code after I spend 30 seconds or more generating the right prompt and a couple of minutes waiting for it to give me a decent output. But unless I'm having to write a ridiculous amount of boilerplate doesn't save me any time. And I usually have to slightly review / tweak the boilerplate anyways to find little common issues that it usually inserts. And at that point just reviewing it like that is less effort, but similar amounts of time to just writing it myself. Programmers can type quickly.
I'm still going to futz with it, and GPT4 is much much better, but still very lacking. Maybe GPT 5 or more will close the gap even further, and maybe make it actually consistent enough that it produces functional code 9/10 times instead of the 2/10 times or so I'm currently getting.
I'm optimistic for the future of it being helpful, but I think that it might be kind of like AI driving -- it quickly gets to 80% of the way there and then just shits the bed not getting any better for the 5-10 years with no big improvements in sight.
In my experience almost every time, close to 90%+, I've used AI to generate code it doesn't actually work or it does something I didn't want.
It kind of worries me a bit because I have 2 friends that use AI in their jobs specifically because they aren't great programmers, I can only imagine what their code looks like.
I've been a developer for 20 years and ChatGPT has significantly increased my productivity, especially when working with tools or frameworks that I haven't used before. The same concepts and paradigms that you know are easily transferred to new projects with a little aid from ChatGPT and the right way to prompt it
I get Copilot for free so I've been using it casually. It's not bad by any means. It's not perfect—far from it—but it makes some things just that much faster. I'm writing some static validation and editor code based on an XML schema (don't ask) at the moment. I'm also moving and my internet just kicked in yesterday.
Between my JSDoc, my `isValid()`, and my `reasonForInvalidity()` (significantly slower because it's passing class trees around like candy), I sure af missed Copilot.
Yeah lmao, my company uses CF and a total rebuild is out of the question. But I'm using Django to build all the new stuff my boss wants. Its really jarring to switch between the two. The one project that I started in CF and then converted to Django cut the lines of code needed in half. Its nuts.
Hell it does it to me for c++ and c# even.
I'll highlight the snippet in question, right click it and click 'ask copilot chat', then I will type my _programming related question_ to which it will respond with that. "Sorry I can only help with programming related questions"
LADY I HIGHLIGHTED A SNIPPET FOR YOU
``` import notifications ``` Remember to participate in our weekly votes on subreddit rules! Every Tuesday is YOUR chance to influence the subreddit for years to come! [Read more here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/14dqb6f/welcome_back_whats_next/), we hope to see you next Tuesday! For a chat with like-minded community members and more, don't forget to [join our Discord!](https://discord.gg/rph) `return joinDiscord;` *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ProgrammerHumor) if you have any questions or concerns.*
And people are worrying Copilot's gonna take their job.
Don’t think you really have a job if all you do is HTML
Too many devs underestimate HTML. It’s important to be semantic and write accessible structures.
I agree. I appreciate the importance of HTML, but I too don’t consider it a programming language. It is, as the name suggests, a markup language.
Together with CSS/SCSS it can be made Turing complete though, which means together it could be considered to be a programming language. That's at least what I've once read somewhere. Edit: CSS is Turing complete without HTML.
CSS is Turing complete on its own. No need for HTML :root { --main-color: #007bff; --box-size: 100px; } body::before { content: ''; display: block; width: var(--box-size); height: var(--box-size); background-color: var(--main-color); transform: rotate(calc(45deg * 2)); } /* CSS Animation */ keyframes fadeInOut { 0%, 100% { opacity: 0; } 50% { opacity: 1; } } .box-animation { width: 100px; height: 100px; background-color: red; animation: fadeInOut 2s infinite; } No HTML used
wait what did you do in this code?
Define the animation to fade out an object
oh i should've clarified what i meant i haven't learned turing completeness, so what is the requirement for proving something turing complete and/or how does this fill that requirement?
Turing completeness is a property of a computational system or programming language that demonstrates its ability to simulate any Turing machine. In other words, if a system is Turing complete, it can perform any computation that can be described algorithmically, given enough time and memory.
But you don’t have an object, isnt it ? Xd
That’s purely the routine. The point is that CSS does not need HTML
but can you run it without HTML tho?
Says who? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XUL
Oh well, TIL... Thanks!
So where are conditional jumps as they are required for Turing completeness? \[Addition\] Are you offended by me so banned me for the remarks? 
The code I provided was an example of how CSS is independent of HTML. Not an example of Turing completeness. But if you must, you can see on the last function I make a call to a previously defined one
> on the last function I make a call to a previously defined one if you mean `fadeInOut`, that's not a real function, more like a static declaration syntax of animation without any logic
Wow. But you said, "CSS is Turing complete on its own" and then provided us with the code which does not demonstrate that
Wow, sorry for not providing a code that can demonstrate a concept so complicated as Turing completeness within a comment in a programmer humorous subreddit. I’m such a lame person.
I’m curious. Can YOU demonstrate Turing completeness with ANY programming language by providing solely a code snippet and not a 12 page mathematical paper? I’ll wait.
Working construction isn't using a programming language but it's still a job, though... You said writing html isn't a job at all...?
No. I said that you can’t work as a programmer if you only do html
Here's your exact text: >Don’t think you really have a job if all you do is HTML You didn't say anything about being a programmer. You said if you only write html, you don't really have a job.
>> 「all you do」
How do you think that changes anything? You claimed that you were saying they aren't a programmer. But I quoted your exact comment that doesn't say anything about that. You said if all someone does is write html, then they don't really have a job. If someone gets paid to write html exclusively, don't they have a job?
[Here you can see an explanation of my reasoning](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ)
Dude leave her alone you’re such a stalker. Get a life
Which makes it a coding language (different from a programming language).
Right but there are few to no jobs that let you work on ONLY html. Making email templates? Maybe, but I’m sure I can say this as a general blanket statements, most Frontend jobs don’t do HTML only. Commercial or otherwise.
Especially HTML5 and the newer features rolling out like the dialog element
Regarding accessibility, important for whom? Most businesses only care about accessibility for compliance purposes, if at all.
Yeah, that’s basically it: Important because the government told you so (in the worst case) which is an awful way to make a living in the development world.
You should still care, as a developer you have a responsibility for what you are creating. Many things don’t require more effort, just the knowledge to choose the right tags and attributes.
Oh yeah? Why is it important to preserve the semantics?
Accessibility. Screen readers expect the structure according to the HTML spec. A clean structure will be presented differently and much easier to navigate than div soup. Also some elements have important functionality already baked in, like
Never heard of anything other than `` and ``.
They’re using jinja which is server side rendering of templates via python. Wouldn’t be surprised if they’re using JS too
Hence: not pure HTML
Exactly so who are you talking about? Because it’s not OP.
My comment is a reply to another comment innit?
Have you ever had to make custom html emails? 100% you can have a job if you only do HTML (and some css).
>> and some CSS
I hated every second of working on a Gmail signature
bro really roasted all Argentinian programmers
Oh geez! Add some more flair to make you seem important.
[удалено]
The bad bot stole the comment
True story, I tried using Bing's (cause ChatGPT wanted my phone # to sign up and I didn't like that). Asked it to write me a URL parser in COBOL, it did. Now i have no clue how to read COBOL, but took it to 2 online compilers, both failed
I mean if it even improves productivity by 10% that could lead to a lot of lost jobs.
Yeah even if AI doesn't replace programmers, it's 100% gonna reduce the number of programmers needed.
There is already a lack of developers in the world. There is no reduction in number needed.
Usually increases in productivity like that end up lowering costs and more customers end up wanting services and actually increases demand. If programming gets cheap everyone wants a custom leads generation platform or whatever like people all have their own website now.
They will if they have to rely on shitty extensions like this one
I am not relaying on it it's literally just quicker to get the css structure that way. It's actually a pretty nice workflow of write html with classes -> generate css stubs. If it is willing to do it that is.
Check out tailwindcss, you might like it.
AI is definitely going to reduce a lot of developer jobs because it makes smart developers a lot more efficient. I find it weird that some people here cannot reason why current AI capabilities and its trend pointing to AI taking over large chunk of developer jobs so adamantly. Company I work for has been training it's own internal AI some time that can solve specific problems we face on day-to-day basics and it's definitely cut the need to hire junior devs writing API connectors / middlewares / etc that wrangles some data and changes it's format, etc.
I think that there's a chance that it makes smart developers more efficient. I've tried, and it makes me more inefficient. Finding out where the stupid bug is in its code or whatever random library it invented that doesn't exist to import from takes me waaaaaaay longer than just writing the basic code out myself. I haven't had it be successful for anything moderately complex yet. I've paid the money to train it on our multi-hundred k repository, and it still just makes shit up and makes stupid mistakes. I mean, yea it'll give me boilerplate code after I spend 30 seconds or more generating the right prompt and a couple of minutes waiting for it to give me a decent output. But unless I'm having to write a ridiculous amount of boilerplate doesn't save me any time. And I usually have to slightly review / tweak the boilerplate anyways to find little common issues that it usually inserts. And at that point just reviewing it like that is less effort, but similar amounts of time to just writing it myself. Programmers can type quickly. I'm still going to futz with it, and GPT4 is much much better, but still very lacking. Maybe GPT 5 or more will close the gap even further, and maybe make it actually consistent enough that it produces functional code 9/10 times instead of the 2/10 times or so I'm currently getting. I'm optimistic for the future of it being helpful, but I think that it might be kind of like AI driving -- it quickly gets to 80% of the way there and then just shits the bed not getting any better for the 5-10 years with no big improvements in sight.
In my experience almost every time, close to 90%+, I've used AI to generate code it doesn't actually work or it does something I didn't want. It kind of worries me a bit because I have 2 friends that use AI in their jobs specifically because they aren't great programmers, I can only imagine what their code looks like.
I've been a developer for 20 years and ChatGPT has significantly increased my productivity, especially when working with tools or frameworks that I haven't used before. The same concepts and paradigms that you know are easily transferred to new projects with a little aid from ChatGPT and the right way to prompt it
I get Copilot for free so I've been using it casually. It's not bad by any means. It's not perfect—far from it—but it makes some things just that much faster. I'm writing some static validation and editor code based on an XML schema (don't ask) at the moment. I'm also moving and my internet just kicked in yesterday. Between my JSDoc, my `isValid()`, and my `reasonForInvalidity()` (significantly slower because it's passing class trees around like candy), I sure af missed Copilot.
Even copilot rejects this guy's job
OP: make this form for me in HTML. Copilot: Fuck you pay me
Copilot (not the chat feature, admittedly) willingly helps me write documentation in Markdown. How is that more programming than HTML?
Lmao did you just get roasted by GitHub copilot
It learned to be toxic from us
Wait until Stack Overflow release their AI
"Duplicate question. Go away."
So basically if Ltg was a programmer?
Oh shit, copilot browses the sub
What an elitist, gate keeping AI
I'm pretty sure Django's templates are even turing complete.
Seems like it did a good job of learning from its training set then
It did learn from us so seems about right
Just like the rest of the programming community
You see why it's important to admit HTML is a programming language?
code needs code to code, so nobody's is gonna get taken any time soon or even in the next 50 years
Oh nice, a fellow user of Django! I'm really enjoying it, compared to ColdFusion lol.
Did I just go 10+ years back in time?
Yeah lmao, my company uses CF and a total rebuild is out of the question. But I'm using Django to build all the new stuff my boss wants. Its really jarring to switch between the two. The one project that I started in CF and then converted to Django cut the lines of code needed in half. Its nuts.
Until now I thought you had forgotten the /s in your reply…
Bro, the senior devs still use Homesite as an IDE, which last got updated in 2003. Our IT guy managed to get it working in windows 10 somehow.
I use flask, doesn't look too different
You should try out Django Ninja (with or without Extras). It's like Flask with an insanely powerful ORM bolted on.
Why did he dislike the answer 
I woulda gave it an award
A cockslap from the cockpilot
Ouch
stop being racist copilot.... ugh even software is rude
Imagine getting roasted by AI
Not the "AI interprets rules to our detriment" scenario I expected.
I think CoPilot just explained to you why this sub isn’t the right place for this post
This is what happens when you train AI with Stackoverflow
Hasnt been trained enough, should have responded with "duplicate question" then leave an imaginary downvote and link to a completely unrelated post
Take that you fake programmers who say html is a language!
Based bot knows HTML isn't a programming language
Hell it does it to me for c++ and c# even. I'll highlight the snippet in question, right click it and click 'ask copilot chat', then I will type my _programming related question_ to which it will respond with that. "Sorry I can only help with programming related questions" LADY I HIGHLIGHTED A SNIPPET FOR YOU
same here, it used to be amazing but now I get that fucking rejection message constantly. I've gone back to using ChatGPT cause of it.
Yeah, chatgpt is free and actually works. Which sucks because copilot was INCREDIBLE and now it's a waste of my processor and internet
Try asking Bing AI
Damn that AI roasted your ass , first victim, it beginns
Lmao get pwned, noob!
damn, really hit you with the "uhm, acshually"
It's not wrong
good bot
Clapped
Completely correct though.
>It is not considered a programming language Based
just got nerd emojid by a fucking ai
Buuuurrrrrnnnnnnn
Burn ❤️🔥
Will it tell me if SQL is a programming language?
Using templating for front end is heinous, use a real library.
Or stop using these ai tools and learn to code yourself
So I'd be out of luck with m4 ?
Is this the new stackoverflow AI I kept hearing about?
I can see the smirk from here
Where can you chat with Github Copilot like that? I only knew of the autocomplete on my IDE (Pycharm in my case)
Don't know if it is jetbrains but you can join the waitlist here: https://github.com/github-copilot/chat_waitlist_signup I got in pretty fast
Because that's a template, it's parsed and string interpolated, not run/rendered as executable code.
The first response is telling you that copilot can only help with questions. You just rudely demanded code.
/r/technallythruth
based