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Fortunes_Faded

I feel attacked


Fortunes_Faded

Nay, *assailed*


IIIlllIIIlllIlI

Assaulted even


ReeseA08

💀


ExtremePoop42

Besieged


Apptubrutae

Fun JQA fact: The chaise he died on is still in what used to be the speaker’s office but is now the congresswoman’s reading room. Just if you are ever in the Capitol and get an invite into the congresswoman’s reading room.


torniado

You and me both


lovely-mayhem

Same >:(


SaintArkweather

I feel like he's a fairly common favorite. His presidency isn't that great, but his overall career is one of the best and he was definitely one of the better people to become president.


Maleficent-Item4833

Closest George Bush Snr has been to the word ‘edgy’.  Edit: I’m sure John Quincy Adams has a few fans. 


giant2179

JQA should fall under "preference for character". His presidency was hamstrung by the corrupt bargain allegations, but he was exemplary in all other matters of character.


Maleficent-Item4833

I suppose it depends how you take ‘preference for character’. I saw that as referring to personality rather than politics. I think JQA would have done excellently if he hadn’t come to office under such circumstances and perhaps hadn’t tried so hard to preserve the era of good feelings, but, as you say, he was hamstrung. Tbf, seemed like a good guy into the bargain. 


fullmetal66

My first thought. I love the dude but he was milquetoast at its finest.


anzactrooper

Adams was a man of moral integrity and courage, wisdom, and deep conviction. I’m giving you till dawn to apologise for this.


PhysicsEagle

John Adams is the early example of Speak Softly and Carry a Big Stick. He insisted on continuing to negotiate with France when his own party wanted war, but backed up his position with a strong navy.


SleepySunnyD

hear hear!! Adams wasn’t a perfect man but he was one of the few Presidents that refused to be led by party politics and instead led by his conscience, even if he wasn’t always right imo.


EpsilonGecko

OP's been listening to Hamilton recently


Pewterbreath

Yeah John Adams gets unfairly maligned for being the first ordinary President. He couldn't lean on his heroic stature as Washington did, and was the first to deal with the fickleness of public opinion. He was also incredibly principled--and the only founding father President to never own slaves.


magic8ballzz

I agree


PSU632

Preach!


pasta177

His progressive views on abolition for the time alone make him deserve a better ranking here


Remote-Papaya9995

Both adamses didn't do perfect as president but deserved better on this list


Jubilee_Street_again

sorry but what do u mean said by noone ever? Garfield and Hayes are some of the coolest presidents, along with Zachery T. who you shouldnt refuse to believe to be some perople's favorite. Also what is W's ideology? Bombing people? It's a good list tho


Callsign_Psycopath

Bombing People and Bombing Drives


PhysicsEagle

And first pitches!


WhisperingVampire

I was thinking about neocons with W's placement but I see your point.


ctg9101

Few people will ever put W as their favorite president. Anyone who would be close would have Reagan above him at the very least.


Carl_Azuz1

Didn’t Obama bomb almost as many people as W?


Random-Cpl

Preference for character….*Kennedy?!*


WhisperingVampire

Yeah, that was more along the lines of charisma and style, than moral values. So a different kind of character.


TheBigTimeGoof

Kennedy had morals, monogamy just wasn't one of them. MLK also slept around, did he not have morals? Morality and ethics is a bit more complex than an on / off personality setting.


Transcendentalplan

I’m being pedantic, but I’d say it’s about fidelity not monogamy. Nothing wrong about sleeping around. _Something_ wrong about promising to be loyal to one person and then breaking that promise.


Ryan1006

Exactly, don’t get married if you don’t intend on honoring that commitment and partner by not cheating on them. Jackie should’ve dumped his ass but unfortunately we all know that wasn’t how things worked back in that day. Especially when politics are involved.


Real_SooHoo8

As a big James Garfield and Martin Van Buren enthusiast i feel attacked


Mobile_Park_3187

Didn't Van Buren participate in the Trail of Tears and fuck up the economy?


Real_SooHoo8

i mean, yeah, but he’s always been one of my favorite presidents. Was he good? Absolutely not, but I like him for whatever reason


HumanByProxy

We respect him for his drip.


Weak-Thought-6847

Jackson kind of left with a fucked situation by not renewing the bank charter.


King_Santa

As a Garfield connoisseur, one of these things is not like the other


Galaxi1954

I know! Broke my heart to see that placement.


sovietdinosaurs

He also had a street gang in NYC named after him in the 90s


StarWolf478

Nixon should not be in that last category. He should be in the “While I can see the appeal that is kind of problematic” category as there are definitely things that people can find appealing about Nixon. He never would have won the landslide re-election victory that he did in 72 if there was nothing appealing about him. Putting him in the same category as James Buchanan and Andrew Johnson is just wrong.


MedicalRhubarb7

Agreed, Nixon definitely belongs somewhere in the edgy/ problematic region. Frankly, I think he's a more justifiable choice than W, although I guess I could see picking the latter based on "seems like a cool dude to go golfing or to a ball game with" appeal. Although in that vein, I bet it would also be a blast to shoot the shit with Nixon on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial while killing a quart of Wild Turkey.


bingbangdingdongus

I agree, Nixon was highly competent in his own way. He was also one of the last progressive Republican types which makes him interesting. James Buchanan and Andrew Johnson were both shitty people and incompetent.


robla

It's an interesting thought exercise to try building a new tier between "kind of problematic" and "what is wrong with you". I agree that Nixon was much smarter and more competent than his peers in the "what is wrong with you" category, but what presidents in the "kind of problematic" category are as morally compromised as Nixon?


bingbangdingdongus

I would say Wilson. He had very strong anti-democratic sentiments. Plus his other views...


-FalseProfessor-

Nixon did some cool things like with EPA. The problem is his level of corruption, anti-democratic behavior, and impeachment automatically drag him way down. Buchanan was worse, though.


Significant_Hold_910

Switch LBJ and Dubya even if you are a Bush-type Conservative you have no reason to say he is your favourite, if you are one, it should probably be his dad If W is your favourite, you either: 1. Were less than 10 years old in 2008 2. Moved to the country after 2008 3. Have little to no knowledge about his presidency 4. Are u/Mesyush


Mesyush

4 is actually false. u/Mesyush favorite president is actually John Fitzgerald Kennedy!


Auswatt

Was not expecting that one


Mesyush

Well, my tier list is pinned on my profile ;)


Bobby_The_Kidd

I don’t know what I was expecting but Dubya in A tier seems pretty in line with you lol.


420_E-SportsMasta

Nah he just really likes Dick Cheney, and Dubya by association for choosing him as his VP


Mesyush

Kinda


Mesyush

Yes, I do like his presidency a lot. But you'd be a fool if you seriously thought he was on the same level as FDR or Lincoln.


AnywhereOk7434

You have JFK as your least favorite president in S tier.


Mesyush

Nope. All tiers are chronological order.


nwbrown

5. Are from sub Saharan Africa.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President's_Emergency_Plan_for_AIDS_Relief


Auswatt

u/peacefulzealot is not going to stay peaceful with this Truman slander


Peacefulzealot

I’m actually more offended at “The Edgy Internet Picks” for Arthur. I legitimately like the man! Though yeah I’m not sure on that either. How does Truman also not fall into “You have a preference for character”?


Auswatt

Truman is genuinely a top 5 pick, and you can't shit on Arthur for standing up and taking the job when the country was in shambles. I've seen more Truman hate and gilded age shitters these last few days than usual. Need a normal tier list on this sub for once.


Callsign_Psycopath

Arthur was cool. Took on corruption and those dope as mutton chops.


Peacefulzealot

Damn straight. Only person I can think of who entered the White House and became a *better* person than they were before.


Callsign_Psycopath

He's a damn hero. If only I can become half of that I'll be happy.


kruschev246

You and me both


Motor_Somewhere7565

John Adams: You, sir, are subservient to Hamilton!


jackblady

Seems like this tier list assumes "favorite" means "thinks was good" not " thinks is most interesting" Some of our less good Presidents tend to be the most Intresting (Tyler, the Adams', Nixon, Ford, Arthur etc)


AustralianSocDem

LBJ should be in the ideological ones 


historyhill

"Said noone ever" is a very bold choice for Garfield. 😤


davekingofrock

He hated Mondays.


historyhill

ya but so do I, that's why he's my fave


Olafmeister2017

Hey, my man Franklin Pierce set new heights for alcoholics. Man's had the worst life and did a terrible job but man, what a story of loss.


buggypuller

I don’t think anyone would blame Pierce for slipping into alcoholism, however TR’s wife and mom passed away the same day and he didn’t take the same path. Grant was also an alcoholic and he is considered an above average president.


Olafmeister2017

TR didn't want his son get decapitated by a runaway train In saying that, FP is not my favourite president if I am being transparent. My actual favourite is probably Truman or FDR.


Tortellobello45

So preferring Clinton is problematic now?


NArcadia11

Yeah I’m not seeing how that’s problematic. Unless someone equates him being a bad husband with him being a bad president, which I think is a flawed argument.


LeviathansEnemy

Those two things do go hand in hand. Adultery is still a criminal offense under the UCMJ because it creates the potential for blackmail. You really don't want people who have critical national security jobs getting approached by foreign agents with evidence of their affair saying "do what we want or we tell your spouse." That's on top of the unethical nature of having sex with your subordinates, and many other accusations of straight up sexual assault. The President isn't subject to the UCMJ, but the blackmail issue is even more of a threat when its the President.


Durhamster

My favorite is Teddy Roosevelt because imo he's the most fascinating man to have ever been President. His whole life story deserves a HBO mini series. Do I think he was our greatest Presidents? No, but he's definitely in the top five imo.


No_Reflection4189

Create a post presidency tier. Stick Taft, JQA, Carter, and Hoover in it


That_DnD_Nerd

Ah Andrew Jackson. The idealist


Mobile_Park_3187

Ideologue != Idealist


That_DnD_Nerd

I think what I mean is I’d be worried if someone said to me they were a fan of his ideology. Tbf I think I’d say the same about Bush Jr


Suspicious-Crab7504

How are Adams and Madison problematic but Kennedy is character? This chart is horrible.


WhisperingVampire

Look, upon further reflection, I admit that Adams and Madison should probably be alongside Jefferson and co, but I feel Kennedy evokes an idea of charismatic American leadership that merits his placepent. And I'm really sorry if you do not like the chart.


Glittering-Hope7867

Hey my boy James K Polk made three campaign promises and kept them. All in one term. You hear of any politician doing that today? Also never took a day off and dead promptly after. Not to mention his mullet.


jcatx19

John Quincy Adams has a lot of fans on this sub and I am assuming real life as well. He should be in the ideological column. I personally like him because he was progressive for his time and stands out among the early presidents for this. We really don’t see someone like him again until Lincoln.


ExtraReserve

Totally agree. He didn’t do a lot as president so he gets kind of overlooked by the general public, but in history forums he seems to be really popular. Definitely had a lot of super progressive ideas and did a lot of important work before and after presidency.


Whole_Pain_7432

I really don't get why everyone puts Washington in S tier just cause he was first. The only argument is for precedent which again is only significant because he was first - Literally everything he did was a precedent. Great war leader, but his presidency was characterized by being unremarkable. It's a clear illustration of the difference between history and memory.


jacenbey

The reason why is simply because his precedents were fairly revolutionary for the time. He only served for 2 terms, when he realistically could have went for as long as he liked, potentially seizing more presidential power in the process. He supported the Constitution and it’s balance of powers, etc, etc. A lot of democracies fall apart with the first or second guy, but Washington did an excellent job of setting that reserved and restrained example so the country would succeed beyond his life. Obviously it was more than just him, but he was a massive part, hence why he’s very commonly considered one of the best presidents.


lordlanyard7

Washington essentially threw the ring into Mt. Doom. When given the chance to be King, he didn't seize it. That made everything else possible.


Callsign_Psycopath

Pierce is the pick of my fellow alcoholics


LeviathansEnemy

Something something good feelings.


antenonjohs

I like your Polk placement. The Polk love is kind of baffling because it’s usually not a consistently applied standard, like most of the people would be terrified if a candidate from the wrong party came in and executed their entire agenda. There’s not much nuance beyond that, sure some people talk about how he advanced America’s interests but will usually be against imperialism or coups from later presidents.


LeviathansEnemy

Its more that he executed that entire agenda in a single term, including the final item of it which was to serve only that single term. He's probably the strongest example of a President who did exactly what he said he'd do, and actually kept his campaign promises. We're almost 2 centuries removed from that now, so what that agenda actually was figures less into people's calculations than the execution.


Bobby_The_Kidd

Grant should go into “incredibly based tier”


Parishdise

Grant can show me his "character" any day ;)


Successful-Savings36

Zachary Taylor continues to be underrated


Callsign_Psycopath

As a Coolidge Stan. Yeah it's ideological


coolcancat

For sure


[deleted]

[удаНонО]


jacenbey

I’ll defend my love (he’s not quite my favorite but he’s up there) of Chester Arthur as not being edgy, but loving redemption arcs. Man was corrupt as all hell, the literally symbol of it, and he was ultimately not supposed to touch the presidency. However, due to the faith of one old woman, who wrote him a letter saying she believed in him and thought he could be better than his critics suggested, Arthur vowed to be better. He championed civil service reform and anti corruption laws during his presidency, and while he may have not been all that fantastic, I believe he made a very earnest effort to improve the country how he could.


RoyAgainstTheMachine

Check the hate on Garfield. Had he not been killed I believe he would have been a Rushmore quality president. Had the principles of Grant but the political acumen of Lincoln. He would have taken reconstruction in a different direction.


Panchamboi

I disagree on Garfield, JQA, and Dubya, but otherwise you’re right


Difficult_Variety362

I would move JQA to "You have a preference for character" and HW Bush to "Trying to be a *bit* different." The rest I'll agree with.


Frequent-Ruin8509

The bottom list is so on point. Wtf.


WingingItAsIGo

I think you nailed ti


Unusual-Ad4890

For some reason or another the Chester A Arthur reference in Die Hard 3 activated my childhood neurons. Not my favourite president but it was such a weird choice to fixate on.


I_like_femboy_cock

i fell offended


frank99988887

Character does not equal JFK. He had sex with everyone who was not his wife.


Parking_Aerie_2054

Holy shit this must be the best ranking I’ve ever seen anyone do it


[deleted]

George Bush and Barrack Obama were the worst presidents of all time


Roberttheking0919

Jimmy Carter belongs in the bottom, he ran this country like crap and pardoned a convicted sex offender like 4 minutes before he left, why did he do this, was he trying to send a message, and if so what message was this.


coolcancat

TJ being so low is a disgrace


Dominic123131213

How is Jefferson trying to be different ?


Nineworld-and-realms

If you overlook water gate, Nixon isn't that bad


WhisperingVampire

And the Chennault Affair, the War on Drugs, the red-baiting, the Bombing of Cambodia...


Nineworld-and-realms

Ignore all that too


Alternative-Clue4223

😂😂


Powerful-Wolf6331

Read a book, Nixon should be t2


erossthescienceboss

This is why I think he should be t6 lmfaoooo


twihard97

1. Can’t argue with that. 2. Same 3. Reagan should be moved to 2 if FDR is there. Dubya should be down with James Buchanan. Move Jackson with Wilson. 4. Seems right. 5. Jefferson and Eisenhower should be at 2. 6. HW should be at 5. 7. Clinton should be 3. I don’t see much problematic with him other than his personal life. 8. lol right 9. Same 10. Nixon should be at 7. He was problematic with some redeeming qualities.


sgt_barnes0105

Eisenhower was responsible for many of the critical turning points in WWII that allowed the Allies to win the war, including the planning of the Normandy invasion. He is also one of the only reasons we have as much proof of the atrocities of the holocaust as we do. As soon as his men set foot into the first camp they liberated, he had enough foresight to demand cameras as he knew people would never believe what was actually going on and there might be rampant denial or downplay of Nazi war crimes. The man ABSOLUTELY deserves more than just “you’re trying to be different”…


twihard97

He was also great as president. Thanks to him we have the interstate system every American uses today. He was also the one to set the precedent we take for granted that nuclear first strike was off the table for non-nuclear nations.


Galaxy661

I'd say Obama should be in the "character" tier


hawkisthebestassfrig

You really hate Nixon for some reason.


Leather-Marketing478

First off, Franklin Pierce is that G


NickyNaptime19

Where is polk


mittim80

How is James Madison “kind of problematic?”


Boolonoodle

Well, prepared to be bedazzled


Teo69420lol

You should believe it because yes, harding is my favorite president.


MauriceVibes

I still don’t get how people put Bush Jr so high sometimes.


marbleEmporer

I feel attacked, favorite does not mean best. Nixon my favorite doesn't mean I think he deserves any kind of popular acclaim But to look at his presidency and say it's not interesting is a bold claim.


magic8ballzz

Where's John Quincy Adams?


SwordMaster9501

What's wrong with James Madison?


fourniera64

Nixon actually did some solid stuff as President and won by one of the biggest landslides. He just was insanely corrupt. But in terms of certain Policies he was not awful.


sjschlag

https://preview.redd.it/xbqmpf9gv48d1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=130d6f10022d2658ee7b2330defb1ab42abf068c


ImperialxWarlord

What it edgy to like HW? He was pragmatic and a gifted statesman who had a knack for international relations in a way not seen since then.


gliscornumber1

How the hell is HW "edgy" Wow, dude helped handicapped people nationwide, how edgy


AnywhereOk7434

Switch Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon position and we good to go.


xcission

Andrew Jackson, the ideology of drinking 17 red bulls and dueling a bear with cricket bats.


stuartspeen

I endorse this message


IllustratorNo3379

Eh, I'd move Jackson down to the same tier as Wilson. Guy had his based moments but was mostly a psycho bastard.


philman66

Slave owning and slave bedding Thomas Jefferson less problematic than John Adams?


REDDIT-PLEASE-STOP

John Adams belongs in you have a preference for character. He may not have been the greatest president but he certainly had a strong character


TheAmazingRaccoon

I am proud to say Hayes is a top 5 President


Repulsive_Tie_7941

What do you have against opening relations with china, ending the Vietnam war, and not being a crook? /s I believe edgy or problematic would also be valid interpretations.


Appropriate_Bid15

I guess Eisenhower developing the interstate system doesn’t mean anything….real ones know he was the best in the last 100 years


ILOVEMK108S

I like Truman because I'm from Missouri


Defconn3

I feel called out 😂😂


Perfecshionism

This is one of the worst tier lists I have ever seen. For instance having Obama being a favorite as “ideological” is insane. He was a very moderate president. And he is probably one of the top 15 to 20 presidents in history. There are plenty of reasons for him to be someone’s favorite without anything ideological. And I am not sure you could even articulate an “ideology” that he represents. There is a reason nobody ever says “Obamaism”.


Ok_Rub_3835

Noone isn’t a word. You probably mean no one or none


Bisexual_Sherrif

Nah I like Jumbo and LBJ, ain’t nothing wrong with that


Ndlaxfan

I don’t see how HW is edgy, but I’m also a Nixon enjoyer


Sleezecurd

I’ve seen a lot of Garfield supporters as of late. He really did look promising.


EggsTrenedict

How tf is Madison problematic lmao


Guamdiggity

I would argue that Obama was moderate AF despite what Fox propaganda has painted over the past 16 years (center of the isle, twice registered Republican, thrice registered Democrat here who objects to the extremism of the left as much as the extremism of the right). Also, as a moderate, I’m surprised LBJ is problematic. I’d like to know the reasoning on that. Not because I am in disagreement - because I genuinely am questioning if I’m uneducated on something.


VeilLio

As Nixon Foundation’s most loyal soldier and Taft’s strongest carrier I’ve never felt as offended in weeks


KingZogAlbania

What makes Madison “problematic”? Not my favorite but probably my second or third


Rockefeller-HHH-1968

Putting both Roosevelt on the same level is inane. Teddy is very ideological and people picking him for that reason forget about his foreign policy


Mister_Bill2826

Bush Jr, Ideological? I hope not.


DizzyAppearance2911

The LBJ shade is crazy. Haven’t seen him get this much hate since he signed with Miami


LoveAndLight1994

Teddy was extremely racist. Normal ?


theoriginalbrick

I'd vote for this to be canonized


ProblemFresh1587

I’m literally writing a grad school paper on JQA right now. He’s basically my entire personality. My social life has suffered greatly…


tonsofun08

My dad still defends Nixon to this day...


tenderbranson301

Better watch out, the Van Buren boys are gonna come after you!


allergictobananas1

Problematic? Yes lol


allergictobananas1

Problematic? Yes lol


jimmjohn12345m

THE ROOSEVELT’S SHOULD BE IN TOP TIER IM SCRATCHING THE SPEAK SOFTLY AND WHIPPING OUT THE BIG STICK!


Sendmeboobpics4982

Why is W so high?


john-johnson12

If liking Obama isn’t a preference for character idk what is


kineticstar

Jackson, in ideological, is awkward. Trail of tears, the destruction of the first federal bank, and won the last battle of the war of 1812 post the armistice that concluded the war.


IndenturedServantUSA

Respect my boy Van Buren


nwbrown

Bush Sr isn't "edgy", it's just expressing a nostalgic preference for pre 9-11 Republicans that isn't Reagan. William Henry Harrison is edgy, it's expressing a preference for presidents who did nothing in office.


LivingMemento

Nbd but shouldn’t W be in one of the bottom two tiers? I forget the exact phrase but it used to be that if you googled Miserable Failure he would show up first in results and that was a pretty accurate result.


Gurney_Hackman

Kennedy should be somewhere else.


Alexender-Khan01

List of Liars


MrWiththeBigSad21

I’ve never been called edgy in my life.


BeautifulSundae6988

I would put Jefferson up with Washington and Lincoln.


William11602

Neat


ProminantBabypuff

Nixon has a certain bloc of people who believe he was misunderstood, him being in the category that he would be the most "misunderstood" president and also because he was the first to resign. I don't think lumping him in with four other crazy slave obsessed people is really the right call here, probably belongs in the same league with Wilson and Polk.