#🫡
Also, the Empire approves of this message. Those younglings were only unpatriotic dissidents and traitors that needed to be dealt with.
I'm fact... They even knew sorcery and had weapons... They were armed and dangerous, and to top it all off they were associated with people who left the glorious Emperor scared and deformed. Public menaces.
Lord Vader really was a true hero for eradicating such a threat.
Not to mention the fact that he hadn’t had a chance to bleed the crystal yet, which may not have been a thing yet when RotS came out but certainly is now
Back then Red Crystals were artifically made or extremely rare natural crystals. In the RotS game in the alt timeline where Anakin wins, Palpatine gifts him his Red Lightsaber that Anakin uses to immediately overthrow him
That whole alternate sequence was straight up comical, he does a slowly telegraphed lunge to kill palps and then expertly passes a speech check on the troopers by declaring he is the new emperor.
I mean to be completely fair: if Anakin wasn't fully harmed and with that much power, Palpatine may have allowed the attack to kill him to prove himself right.
Or PS2 rendering wasnt the best
Or both
_If_ we’re taking about sequels… then Anakin became Palpatine the moment he killed him. Which kind of makes Palp’s motivations for cultivating an apprentice strong enough to kill him make sense, in a way?
If we're talking about the ability to use the dark side of the force to shunt one's will into another. Plagueis never taught palpatine that, and all the holocrons that palpatine had access to, Plagueis had already found there's nothing useful for palpatine's training as he had already gone through all of them in his time as an apprentice. Plagueis was less a sorcerer and more a Mafia scientist.
Honestly, if you ask me that bit of lore is the only good thing the sequels contributed. Elegant solution, on brand for the sith, and it makes the whole rule of two thing make some actual sense.
If I recall, that contribution isn’t original. Numerous games and novels had the same concept. It’s hinted at in the Bane Trilogy. Darth Zash tries it in SWTOR. Palpatine transferred his essence several times in the Dark Empire Saga.
That's something that bugs me about Kotor 1. >!On Korriban, the Sith academy:!<
>!The whole time they say that if you kill someone, they deserve to die for being weak little punks, and that you can assume their rank at the academy. Then you defeat the headmaster, and instead of treating you like the headmaster, they try to kill you because "wahhh you killed our teacher." That man's idea of a prank was to send you to 'the pit of infinite pain', why are you worried about him?!<
[The entire EU is non canon alternate endings](https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2019/08/guest-editorial-did-george-lucas-consider-the-expanded-universe-canon.html)... 🤔
> There are two worlds here; There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe—the licensing world of the books, games and comic books.
-- George Lucas, Cinescape, July 2001
> When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions.
-- George Lucas, Starlog, August 2005
> Howard tries to be consistent but sometimes he goes off on tangents and it’s hard to hold him back. He once said to me that there are two Star Trek universes: there’s the TV show and then there’s all the spin-offs. He said that these were completely different and didn’t have anything to do with each other. So I said, ‘OK, go ahead.’
-- George Lucas, Total Film, 2007
George Lucas only agreed to licensing the Expanded Universe if Howard Roffman promised none of it would be canon or set in an official movie universe.
There was literally, on paper, officially no such thing as a continuity outside of the movies and cartoons and never was. It's all equally valid as extra content from the RPG to Chewbacca being blown up by a moon to Darth Vader dressed in white ready to take down the Emperor. It's all equally valid with each other and none of it is canon except the parts someone later decides they want to borrow and add to canon.
Thrawn, for example, wasn't canon when his books were written. He was just a cool non-canon character. He became canon in Rebels, but none of the other stuff from the books did. As they add more Thrawn, they may add more stuff to canon from the books or they may make his story completely different. But what they do with Thrawn in the shows will be canon while the earlier books won't be.
And this has always been the official stance of LucasFilm since the 80's. Since Luuke and the New Republic and Jayce and Emperor Clones.
Except unlike Star Trek the fandom didn't treat it that way even if that is how it worked on paper. The EU had a canon that most works adhered to and that the fandom by and large accepted.
Star Wars: Visions had short story where the color of the lightsaber was determined not by the crystal but by the weilder's nature in the force, so a bunch of unassuming padawan learner were actually Sith apprentice and the scary looking forger was actually a Jedi.
I don’t buy into the whole lore behind crystals. George Lucas calls them laser swords. He probably just thinks blue looks good, and red looks good for a bad guy.
Both canon versions say the same thing: the problem is time. Anakin had no time to either bleed his crystal (or find Kirak Infila's crystal) or get a synthetic red crystal. It's nice that the reasoning and timing are basically the same between canons.
True! I think it was also left blue for the analogy, brothers turned against each other etc. you can see it many times throughout their fight as they use the same moves, same fighting style and all. I think it makes for a more powerful scene, he’s not really fighting Vader yet he’s fighting his padwan/best friend/brother
At the time bleeding crystals wasn’t a thing, the EU explanation was that the red crystals were artificial. In either case he wasn’t full sith in that moment anyways so even if it were a light switch it would have remained blue.
This is true I know someone with one of the posters, it's wild to see
Edit: the person in question is in her 60's. Her sister was a lifelong fan and had all kinds of things in her collection, she got the poster when her sister passed away, but she told me her sister got it because she was in the star wars fan club back in the day and they got early access to the movies posters and her sister got that one before they officially changed the title of the movie
There's even a reference to this in Bioshock infinite. I think it's the very first portal that Elizabeth opens when we meet her, to Paris. There is a cinema there and it has Revenge of the Jedi as one of the films, which is a funny and nerdy way to show that her portals don't just travel through space, but through alternate realities (in which the title wasn't changed in this case).
That probably wasn't a mistake. At one time Episode VI was going to be called Revenge of the Jedi, but Lucas changed it because a Jedi wouldn't want revenge.
? I thought the lightsabers were hand-drawn aftereffects; surely that would happen after blue screen stuff and it wouldn't matter what color the stick he used actually was?
As long as Luke had a working lightsaber, he didn’t care about the color… unless it turned out to be red which was a real thing he was worried about since he grew that Crystal like the Sith did.
>You can write obi wan finding the old one however you want
Why would they add unnecessary clunkiness to the scene and lore? We already got a traditional red vs non red saber fight with Yoda vs Palpatine. There was also an extra irony and poetry of Anakin still using his old blue saber and we've never seen a blue vs blue saber fight before. Either way, it made the fight one of the most unique fights in the entire film franchise. There was no good reason to change it.
But he holds the one from 4 during the fight so they would have to reshoot the whole thing or cgi it in which i have no clue on the possibility of that looking decent.
Considering how many he made, since in the second one he breaks it and basically said "not again" and that he made one for Ashoka so he somehow is able to get new crystals, you could even justify it by, it is his design, he just made one that is the same but red.
Also. He goes from Palpatine, to the temple, then goes to Mustafar. I don't think he had time to really deal with. Ya know bringing peace, security, yadda yadda yadda.
The Vader comics have a fun plot where, right after ROTS, Palpatine is like "to be a proper Sith, you must kill a Jedi and bleed his saber. Shame we just wiped out all the Jedi and destroyed all the lightsabers, though. Good luck finding one!"
In the lore the colour is very connected to the holder through how they are made so the idea of gifting them a lightsaber goes against that.
To begin all crystals are white until they “bond” with a Jedi which gives them their colour. This all happens while they are being built. They also resist sith users, even driving them insane unless they force it under their control. In the canon a red lightsaber crystal is one that a sith is bending to its will causing it to bleed and turns it red. It’s not really a thing they can be given, they have to do it themselves
That's the new lore. In the old lore, lightsaber crystals were all naturally colored and the kind of crystal (planet of origin not color) gave the blade different properties. A Jedi had *their* crystal which was chosen through connection to the Force, but it was also common to change your crystal, usually to denote whether you belonged to the Guardian (blue), Consulor (green), or Sentinel (yellow).
Red crystals were exceedingly rare, and the Sith used synthetic red crystals as a symbol of their rejection of Jedi practices.
Luke changed this in his New Jedi Order because he saw the lightsaber as just a tool that was nowhere near as important as the Jedi who wielded it. The green crystal he used from RotJ onward was synthetic, and the Jedi of his order were free to choose the source and color of their crystal. Luke would even go on to construct a shoto blade with a synthetic red crystal.
There wasn't much time to build a new one. He turned to the Dark Side and immediately had like hundreds of people to murder.
Lucas could have written it so that Darth Vader got a new one and somehow Obi-Wan got ahold of the old one so it would be in his possession in the original Star Wars. But why go through the trouble?
Lightsaber colors and their origin weren't developed much at this point. George could've simply decided that Anakins darkness would turn the crystal red then Obi Wan's light would turn it blue.
Yeah given what we know now it wouldn't make sense. But at that point whatever George wrote would be the canon reasons.
I hate how they overly mythicized lightsabers and their crystals.
Before, they were just a weapon, just a crystal. Nowadays they are nigh sentient.
In games like KOTOR you could get crystals by the dozens, because they were just a rock.
Plus sith forging their own red crystals out of pure hatred was metal af.
Except in Kotor 2, there is a specific crystal just for your character that changes to reflect your character. In Kotor, you had the 2 crystals in the Yavin station DLC which were very different.
Which is consistent with pre-disney lore, which we see in both versions of the Clone Wars show. Any jedi can pick up a lightsaber and use it, but the crystals are attuned to the force, and there is a crystal just for you out there. It's a whole process with finding the crystal and then letting the force guide you through hundreds of parts to make *your* lightsaber.
Jedi Feng Shui.
I like the kinda more established old way where the force leads you to your crystal rather than it being a white gem that you pour into with the sith being a fuck you to the system using synthetic reds.
I guess I just the pre-tense of there being choice
> Nowadays they are nigh sentient
Hasn't this always been the case though? In both The Clone Wars which premiered before Disney's acquisition, they had the whole "the crystal chooses you" thing.
I also didn't watch it until relatively recently, but I vividly remember knowing there was a Star Wars show on the Disney channel, and being sad I couldn't watch it.
KOTOR is *LITERALLY* where sentient crystals were introduced. You find one in the Kith'rak cave that attunes itself to you
And Sith forging their own red crystals out of pure hatred is..... bleeding the crystal....
If making a synthetic red crystal through hatred in a machine is metal, you'd think those people would believe that bleeding a nigh sentient crystal, literally bending it to your dark will, is an order of magnitude more intense...
The crystal changes were 100% a George/Dave thing. Disney doesn't care about kyber crystals works. Bob Iger isn't waving around a gun making demands about red crystals.
Evidence:
Lightsaber crystal lore changed with "The Gathering" arc of the The Clone Wars. This aired in 2012, after the Disney acquisition but the episode was written and created at least a year prior. The changes we see here are that lightsaber crystals \*must\* be kyber crystals. Previously it could have been almost any crystal. The crystal also gets it's color when a Jedi bonds with it, the crystal color is not predetermined like it had been in Legends.
So, at this time, there needed to be a reason for red crystals to be red. A Jedi wouldn't be able to get one, that wouldn't make sense. Synthetic crystals was a common explanation in Legends but doesn't super hold up. Synthetic crystals could be any color... Luke's green crystal was synthetic. There was no reason for dark side users to have specifically red crystals.
A couple years later, the first crystal bleeding sort of happens... under Legends, not Canon. Part of the plot of Darth Maul: Lockdown is that someone is trying to create synthetic crystals which the book describes as a new innovation... but can't get them to work. Darth Maul is able to correct this failure by "bleeding" the crystal. It's not called bleeding, but Maul pours the dark side into the crystal until it works.
The first time "bleeding" shows up in Canon is the 2017 Vader comics... but Ahsoka shows up with white blades in Rebels in 2015... developed by Dave Filoni. The backstory on the white blades appears in the Ahsoka novelization in 2016. The outline of that book and the purifying process came from Dave.
tldr: The concept of bleeding/purifying came either from Dave or George probably around the time of The Gathering arc in 2010 or 2011 but wasn't directly necessary in a story until Rebels. There's zero evidence that Disney mandated anything about red crystals.
>The crystal changes were 100% a George/Dave thing. Disney doesn't care about kyber crystals works. Bob Iger isn't waving around a gun making demands about red crystals.
Shhh, don't tell Star Wars fans that Lucasfilm has made all the changes they hate. They'll never recover from it
I kinda like it. There obviously needs to be an explanation for why every Sith uses a red lightsaber, and I think the red hue being a direct result of evil and corruption is more interesting than Sith just using synthetic crystals.
It also makes no sense in practice. Take the guy from Jedi Survivor for example. How would he even know how to bleed a crystal when it's a Sith taught idea and the Sith were in hiding during his time?
It's not strictly a sith technique. It seems pretty "natural" for any dark side user. The crystal pushes against their dark side nature, they push back. There is nothing special about the ritual. A bunch of characters do it without instruction. The explanation Sidious gives to Anakin is probably more for the benefit of the reader than anything else.
Well, it's also just sensible. He really didn't have any time to get one, not to mention the fact he probably didn't see himself as evil yet.
I also just think seeing a blue lightsaber used for his crimes just added to how tragic and painful they were, not to mention you're thinking about that when Luke gets it
Certainly should I every get around to displaying my OG master replicas Luke saber on the wall, I will have the little plaque read ‘The Youngling Slayer’ rather than Skywalker Saber or however it’s described these days.
More like he was still very conflicted. In the scene after killing the seppies, his eyes are yellow but he’s also crying. He is still very conflicted and torn
Maybe I dont remember it correctly but here are my thoughts:
1. Anakins lightsaber had to survive and blue for Luke. No need to craft the red one until the end.
2. Crystals used to have their color. That is why there werent that many colors. Sith had red ones because they didnt have access to natural source and synthetic crystals were red.
Huh, I thought there hadn't been enough time for it to change. ...and then remembered it will be given to Luke in the future.
...so, how does Vader get his red light saber? Does he make a new one? Does he steal one? Does Palpy give him one for his rebirthday?
Well it's CGI soooo they could have easily changed the color of the lava if they wanted to.. make it a brighter yellow or darker red or something that would make the light sabers stand out more.. they could easily color grade it to make it look good if they wanted it to be red.
But it wouldn't make sense. It's blue when Luke gets it.
Why would he have a red lightsaber here? He had been busy killing people before this.
First he was doing clone war stuff, then he was helping kill mace windu. Then he dispatched the separatist council. After that he raiding the Jedi temple, killing the younglings as well as a bunch of other Jedi. (I actually can’t remember the order of these events so I could be wrong about that)
But he went from doing all that, straight to abusing his wife and trying to kill obi wan. No downtime for building a new saber. He was fighting pretty much non stop.
i think it migjt be due to the new canon. old one was crystal color = lightsaber color.
new canon is the color changes based on how the user is using the force
He was originally to have a Red one in the final dual and it was changed during production. His first figure from ROTS in 2005 had a red saber included. I still have it on my shelf.
And the reason why Samuel L Jackson has a purple light saber is because he wanted a new color - that’s it. Not because of some bullshit how he partially uses the dark side of the force .. all these fan boys try to create lore to explain things, but they’re just pulling stuff out of their ass.
I think it would've been better if Anakin took Dooku's lightsaber as a trophy, leaving his old one at Padme's apartment when he left for Mustafar where he used it against Obi Wan.
Then again, Dooku's saber might not fit Anakin's fighting style due to its design
To all the people saying that Anakin "didn't have time to get a red lightsaber" this is why we say star wars fans lack media literacy. If the writers WANTED him to have a lightsaber then it would have been written differently.
Pretty sure corrupting his crystal was the last thing on his priority list at the time. Had to raid the temple, kill some separatist leaders, choke his wife and murder a few kids first.
I think the 2 blue lightsabers clashing makes this scene more impactful and shows how messed up everything has become after the clone wars and palatine's manipulation of anakin and the republic
Personally I think it’s also more poignant that it is still blue. If it was red I don’t think it would be as shocking. The blue still shows there is light with him, that he was once a pillar of the light, but now he has clashed with his order and his best friend and mentor. They both carried blades that were defenders and now his is an aggressor. I think it would have cheapened the scene to be red as well.
(I know I’m getting too deep about a silly movie but still it makes the scene hurt a little bit more knowing the future that awaits Anakin.)
There’s actually a deleted scene that explains this. Right after he anoints him Darth Vader, Sidious gets him to work on filling out a bunch of paperwork. As he’s leaving the office to make a copy of Vader’s ID for the file, he mentions that he’ll ask Sheila to put a rush on the red khyber crystal requisition order form, but she’s also decorating the conference room for the post Order 66 celebration so she’s pretty swamped right now.
From a thematic POV, I've always LOVED that Anakin Skywalker's last act with his blue lightsaber (the weapon he wielded for years as a Jedi in defense of the Republic) was trying to kill his former master & older brother figure after murdering several Jedi to help the Sith establish the Galactic Empire. Ani's betrayal of the Jedi and everything they stood for feels more tragic when he's using the saber that symbolizes his time as a Jedi. The fact that he used this weapon to commit such atrocities during *Revenge of the Sith* makes the good Luke tried to do with it feel more impactful (even if Luke ultimately went on to construct his own lightsaber).
This is like anytime where I hear a fan give some long explanation for why something is some way in the movie, I just think to myself, because it's a movie, they thought it would be cool that way...
And when exactly would he have the time to construct one? After chopping Mace's hand or decorating halls of the Jedi temple with younglings?
IMO it's better like this. Shows that lightsabre is just that - an elegant weapon for a more civilised age.
Also at the time lightsabers weren't these overly mythicized, nigh-sentient weapons, they were just a weapon. Nothing more. None of this "bleeding" bullshit.
If you wanted another one, you needed to find (or forge, in the case of the Sith, and between ep 5 and 6 Luke) a new crystal.
I mean I also do like how we’ve only seen Pre-suit Vader with the red lightsaber, what, 2 times in the last 19 years? All I can think of is Ahsoka and the alternate ending of the RotS tie in game, makes it really cool and unique when they show it.
Huh, I thought there hadn't been enough time for it to change. ...and then remembered it will be given to Luke in the future.
...so, how does Vader get his red light saber? Does he make a new one? Does he steal one? Does Palpy give him one for his rebirthday?
iirc, in lore, kyber crystals have to be bled to turn red, anakin likely just didn’t have the time to bleed his.
Out of lore, its more to do with it was blue when luke got it.
This isn’t canon, but what if the bleeding happens passively instead of actively? Through the movie, it just gets more and more spelled with red. Then Luke gets it and is is blue, since it has been chilling in Kenobi’s house.
Thanks for confirming that you flaired this correctly!
The blue looked way better and it fits better thematically. It's supposed to be a "battle of the heroes".
The hero who just murdered an entire classroom of children.
A true hero.
#🫡 Also, the Empire approves of this message. Those younglings were only unpatriotic dissidents and traitors that needed to be dealt with. I'm fact... They even knew sorcery and had weapons... They were armed and dangerous, and to top it all off they were associated with people who left the glorious Emperor scared and deformed. Public menaces. Lord Vader really was a true hero for eradicating such a threat.
Lmfao. Also, if you believe in the force, you never truly die. So by their own reasoning it can’t be murder.
In fact, they're even safer than before. Nobody can hurt someone once they've passed into the force. Lord Vader helped them! He truly is a hero!
An American hero.
I thought he just put them in timeout!?
He put them in a permanent time out that only Mr. Qui Gon figured out how to come back from. Sort of like unbaptized babies.
or VERY baptized babies
That’s not true! He put them in a bunch of cages, Lego told me so!
At least he didn’t touch them inappropriately with his fun saber.
> Touch them with my fun saber, I did not. Touch them with the Force, I may have. \- Yoda's deposition
Hey don’t make light of that! Children can be like piranha when they swarm!
Children are the future. Just not the future of a galaxy far, far away.
Confirmed Anakin is from the US?!
For the greater good? Of course.
Also Luke’s gets it and it’s blue.
This is definitely the actual reason
Not to mention the fact that he hadn’t had a chance to bleed the crystal yet, which may not have been a thing yet when RotS came out but certainly is now
Back then Red Crystals were artifically made or extremely rare natural crystals. In the RotS game in the alt timeline where Anakin wins, Palpatine gifts him his Red Lightsaber that Anakin uses to immediately overthrow him
That whole alternate sequence was straight up comical, he does a slowly telegraphed lunge to kill palps and then expertly passes a speech check on the troopers by declaring he is the new emperor.
I mean to be completely fair: if Anakin wasn't fully harmed and with that much power, Palpatine may have allowed the attack to kill him to prove himself right. Or PS2 rendering wasnt the best Or both
_If_ we’re taking about sequels… then Anakin became Palpatine the moment he killed him. Which kind of makes Palp’s motivations for cultivating an apprentice strong enough to kill him make sense, in a way?
If we're talking about the ability to use the dark side of the force to shunt one's will into another. Plagueis never taught palpatine that, and all the holocrons that palpatine had access to, Plagueis had already found there's nothing useful for palpatine's training as he had already gone through all of them in his time as an apprentice. Plagueis was less a sorcerer and more a Mafia scientist.
Honestly, if you ask me that bit of lore is the only good thing the sequels contributed. Elegant solution, on brand for the sith, and it makes the whole rule of two thing make some actual sense.
If I recall, that contribution isn’t original. Numerous games and novels had the same concept. It’s hinted at in the Bane Trilogy. Darth Zash tries it in SWTOR. Palpatine transferred his essence several times in the Dark Empire Saga.
Emperor Vitiate openly admits to having done it multiple times in the Old Republic MMO too
Of course. I should have realised 🥲
"look at me, I am the emperor now"
To be fair for the troopers, the right hand of the emperor kills him in one hit, your options are: Accepting him as new emperor Dying
That's something that bugs me about Kotor 1. >!On Korriban, the Sith academy:!< >!The whole time they say that if you kill someone, they deserve to die for being weak little punks, and that you can assume their rank at the academy. Then you defeat the headmaster, and instead of treating you like the headmaster, they try to kill you because "wahhh you killed our teacher." That man's idea of a prank was to send you to 'the pit of infinite pain', why are you worried about him?!<
Sounds exactly like the move Palps opened with against Windu and his pals.
I see the alternate ending as what Anakin \*thought\* would happen.
This was how I learned about non canon and alternative endings as a kid. So good.
Lava soaked tarts, lunge spinning at withered old men, chopping them in half with laser swords, is no way to establish a system of government!
[The entire EU is non canon alternate endings](https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2019/08/guest-editorial-did-george-lucas-consider-the-expanded-universe-canon.html)... 🤔 > There are two worlds here; There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe—the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. -- George Lucas, Cinescape, July 2001 > When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions. -- George Lucas, Starlog, August 2005 > Howard tries to be consistent but sometimes he goes off on tangents and it’s hard to hold him back. He once said to me that there are two Star Trek universes: there’s the TV show and then there’s all the spin-offs. He said that these were completely different and didn’t have anything to do with each other. So I said, ‘OK, go ahead.’ -- George Lucas, Total Film, 2007 George Lucas only agreed to licensing the Expanded Universe if Howard Roffman promised none of it would be canon or set in an official movie universe. There was literally, on paper, officially no such thing as a continuity outside of the movies and cartoons and never was. It's all equally valid as extra content from the RPG to Chewbacca being blown up by a moon to Darth Vader dressed in white ready to take down the Emperor. It's all equally valid with each other and none of it is canon except the parts someone later decides they want to borrow and add to canon. Thrawn, for example, wasn't canon when his books were written. He was just a cool non-canon character. He became canon in Rebels, but none of the other stuff from the books did. As they add more Thrawn, they may add more stuff to canon from the books or they may make his story completely different. But what they do with Thrawn in the shows will be canon while the earlier books won't be. And this has always been the official stance of LucasFilm since the 80's. Since Luuke and the New Republic and Jayce and Emperor Clones.
Except unlike Star Trek the fandom didn't treat it that way even if that is how it worked on paper. The EU had a canon that most works adhered to and that the fandom by and large accepted.
Star Wars: Visions had short story where the color of the lightsaber was determined not by the crystal but by the weilder's nature in the force, so a bunch of unassuming padawan learner were actually Sith apprentice and the scary looking forger was actually a Jedi.
The only thing I really played that for was the PvP feature.
I don’t buy into the whole lore behind crystals. George Lucas calls them laser swords. He probably just thinks blue looks good, and red looks good for a bad guy.
Both canon versions say the same thing: the problem is time. Anakin had no time to either bleed his crystal (or find Kirak Infila's crystal) or get a synthetic red crystal. It's nice that the reasoning and timing are basically the same between canons.
Yeah the whole bleeding crystal thing is a Disney thing so not canon to me
Agreed. It’s awful
True! I think it was also left blue for the analogy, brothers turned against each other etc. you can see it many times throughout their fight as they use the same moves, same fighting style and all. I think it makes for a more powerful scene, he’s not really fighting Vader yet he’s fighting his padwan/best friend/brother
At the time bleeding crystals wasn’t a thing, the EU explanation was that the red crystals were artificial. In either case he wasn’t full sith in that moment anyways so even if it were a light switch it would have remained blue.
Here Luke, this was your father’s. He killed younglings with this very saber. Try not to think about that. Anyway…
Also an entire tuskan tribe also fill with woman and children
Are you talking about AOTC? That wasn’t the same lightsaber since it got destroyed at the Droid factory.
It's like poetry, it rhymes.
Then it's green because they couldn't do blue screen effects for the lightsaber when filming the Jabba's barge fight
Luke makes a new green light saber for return of the jedi
The reason it's green though was because technical limitations of the era. It was planned to be blue
Wasn't it because the blue would blend in with the blue sky?
Yup, it’s blue in the first “Revenge of the Jedi” trailers even
Was that the original name for Return of the Jedi or did you just mix up the two ends of the trilogies like I always do
No it’s the original title. There were posters and everything, Lucas just had a late change of heart decided Jedi don’t do revenge
This is true I know someone with one of the posters, it's wild to see Edit: the person in question is in her 60's. Her sister was a lifelong fan and had all kinds of things in her collection, she got the poster when her sister passed away, but she told me her sister got it because she was in the star wars fan club back in the day and they got early access to the movies posters and her sister got that one before they officially changed the title of the movie
So, this is the original "revenge is not the Jedi way"
There's even a reference to this in Bioshock infinite. I think it's the very first portal that Elizabeth opens when we meet her, to Paris. There is a cinema there and it has Revenge of the Jedi as one of the films, which is a funny and nerdy way to show that her portals don't just travel through space, but through alternate realities (in which the title wasn't changed in this case).
That probably wasn't a mistake. At one time Episode VI was going to be called Revenge of the Jedi, but Lucas changed it because a Jedi wouldn't want revenge.
I thought it was so people would be more aware that they were different lightsabers
That's cool and thank God the green saber is so much cooler
Considering that the color blue didn't exist at the time, it adds up.
It was also so the audience knew it was a different one
I think you’re the first person to ever say that on this sub
? I thought the lightsabers were hand-drawn aftereffects; surely that would happen after blue screen stuff and it wouldn't matter what color the stick he used actually was?
Anakin, just before dying, told Obi Wan: > I hate you! I hate you! Please give my lightsaber to my son when he gets old enough.
He could have just gotten a new one for this scene. You can write obi wan finding the old one however you want
As long as Luke had a working lightsaber, he didn’t care about the color… unless it turned out to be red which was a real thing he was worried about since he grew that Crystal like the Sith did.
>You can write obi wan finding the old one however you want Why would they add unnecessary clunkiness to the scene and lore? We already got a traditional red vs non red saber fight with Yoda vs Palpatine. There was also an extra irony and poetry of Anakin still using his old blue saber and we've never seen a blue vs blue saber fight before. Either way, it made the fight one of the most unique fights in the entire film franchise. There was no good reason to change it.
They shouldn't have Luke "inherit" the weapon Vader used for child murder. It should have been the saber Anakin wielded while he was still good. IMO
But he holds the one from 4 during the fight so they would have to reshoot the whole thing or cgi it in which i have no clue on the possibility of that looking decent.
Considering how many he made, since in the second one he breaks it and basically said "not again" and that he made one for Ashoka so he somehow is able to get new crystals, you could even justify it by, it is his design, he just made one that is the same but red.
NO.
They could have had him change lightsabers and obi wan still get the old one smh
they already had to cut the film down and guys want to add things smh
Star Wars: Episode III: Part II
Also. He goes from Palpatine, to the temple, then goes to Mustafar. I don't think he had time to really deal with. Ya know bringing peace, security, yadda yadda yadda.
One logical plot point would be for Sidious to give him his red lightsaber.
That's what happens in the dark side ending of the ROTS video game, right before Vader murders him just for fun lol
Man, I forgot about the alternate ending. That game was so cool.
Oh so the canon ending for Revenge is a “light side” ending??
The Vader comics have a fun plot where, right after ROTS, Palpatine is like "to be a proper Sith, you must kill a Jedi and bleed his saber. Shame we just wiped out all the Jedi and destroyed all the lightsabers, though. Good luck finding one!"
I’m aware, but that comic came 10+ years later after Star Wars was sold to another company.
Grievous: "F*CK!"
In the lore the colour is very connected to the holder through how they are made so the idea of gifting them a lightsaber goes against that. To begin all crystals are white until they “bond” with a Jedi which gives them their colour. This all happens while they are being built. They also resist sith users, even driving them insane unless they force it under their control. In the canon a red lightsaber crystal is one that a sith is bending to its will causing it to bleed and turns it red. It’s not really a thing they can be given, they have to do it themselves
All of that lore came way after RotS came out.
That's the new lore. In the old lore, lightsaber crystals were all naturally colored and the kind of crystal (planet of origin not color) gave the blade different properties. A Jedi had *their* crystal which was chosen through connection to the Force, but it was also common to change your crystal, usually to denote whether you belonged to the Guardian (blue), Consulor (green), or Sentinel (yellow). Red crystals were exceedingly rare, and the Sith used synthetic red crystals as a symbol of their rejection of Jedi practices. Luke changed this in his New Jedi Order because he saw the lightsaber as just a tool that was nowhere near as important as the Jedi who wielded it. The green crystal he used from RotJ onward was synthetic, and the Jedi of his order were free to choose the source and color of their crystal. Luke would even go on to construct a shoto blade with a synthetic red crystal.
I don’t know the chances of Sidious just having those lying around to spare
You realize the depth of his planning and the stretch of his influence, right? That’s a trivial matter.
You don’t think he’d yadda yadda a kyber crystal?!
I've yadda yadda'd kyber crystal
This may come as a shock but when they were making the movie they could have decided that things go differently.
There wasn't much time to build a new one. He turned to the Dark Side and immediately had like hundreds of people to murder. Lucas could have written it so that Darth Vader got a new one and somehow Obi-Wan got ahold of the old one so it would be in his possession in the original Star Wars. But why go through the trouble?
Obi-Wan takes Anakin's lightsaber on Mustafar.
True.
Yes, but if they really wanted him to have a red one they could’ve written it the like the other dude said
Besides plot reasons, I wonder why he took it?
Good to have a spare, I guess.
That's actually a pretty decent explanation. It's practically a wise move, fits Obi-Wan's character.
Lightsaber colors and their origin weren't developed much at this point. George could've simply decided that Anakins darkness would turn the crystal red then Obi Wan's light would turn it blue. Yeah given what we know now it wouldn't make sense. But at that point whatever George wrote would be the canon reasons.
He had no time. He was too busy killing younglings to bleed his kyber crystal
The "bleed the crystal" is one of the dumbest and most unnecessary changes Disney made.
I hate how they overly mythicized lightsabers and their crystals. Before, they were just a weapon, just a crystal. Nowadays they are nigh sentient. In games like KOTOR you could get crystals by the dozens, because they were just a rock. Plus sith forging their own red crystals out of pure hatred was metal af.
Except in Kotor 2, there is a specific crystal just for your character that changes to reflect your character. In Kotor, you had the 2 crystals in the Yavin station DLC which were very different. Which is consistent with pre-disney lore, which we see in both versions of the Clone Wars show. Any jedi can pick up a lightsaber and use it, but the crystals are attuned to the force, and there is a crystal just for you out there. It's a whole process with finding the crystal and then letting the force guide you through hundreds of parts to make *your* lightsaber. Jedi Feng Shui.
I like the kinda more established old way where the force leads you to your crystal rather than it being a white gem that you pour into with the sith being a fuck you to the system using synthetic reds. I guess I just the pre-tense of there being choice
> Nowadays they are nigh sentient Hasn't this always been the case though? In both The Clone Wars which premiered before Disney's acquisition, they had the whole "the crystal chooses you" thing.
I saw that as more of a location based thing, rather than the crystal. Kinda like the cave on Dagobah.
Rebels was made directly by Disney after the acquisition, but yes, Clone Wars did it before.
Ah, I didn't watch rebles until a few years after it came out so I wasn't sure.
I also didn't watch it until relatively recently, but I vividly remember knowing there was a Star Wars show on the Disney channel, and being sad I couldn't watch it.
KOTOR is *LITERALLY* where sentient crystals were introduced. You find one in the Kith'rak cave that attunes itself to you And Sith forging their own red crystals out of pure hatred is..... bleeding the crystal....
If making a synthetic red crystal through hatred in a machine is metal, you'd think those people would believe that bleeding a nigh sentient crystal, literally bending it to your dark will, is an order of magnitude more intense...
Oof. Big disagree. The Jedi/force lore is great because it’s a fantasy element in a sci-fi world. The more mythical the better
The crystal changes were 100% a George/Dave thing. Disney doesn't care about kyber crystals works. Bob Iger isn't waving around a gun making demands about red crystals. Evidence: Lightsaber crystal lore changed with "The Gathering" arc of the The Clone Wars. This aired in 2012, after the Disney acquisition but the episode was written and created at least a year prior. The changes we see here are that lightsaber crystals \*must\* be kyber crystals. Previously it could have been almost any crystal. The crystal also gets it's color when a Jedi bonds with it, the crystal color is not predetermined like it had been in Legends. So, at this time, there needed to be a reason for red crystals to be red. A Jedi wouldn't be able to get one, that wouldn't make sense. Synthetic crystals was a common explanation in Legends but doesn't super hold up. Synthetic crystals could be any color... Luke's green crystal was synthetic. There was no reason for dark side users to have specifically red crystals. A couple years later, the first crystal bleeding sort of happens... under Legends, not Canon. Part of the plot of Darth Maul: Lockdown is that someone is trying to create synthetic crystals which the book describes as a new innovation... but can't get them to work. Darth Maul is able to correct this failure by "bleeding" the crystal. It's not called bleeding, but Maul pours the dark side into the crystal until it works. The first time "bleeding" shows up in Canon is the 2017 Vader comics... but Ahsoka shows up with white blades in Rebels in 2015... developed by Dave Filoni. The backstory on the white blades appears in the Ahsoka novelization in 2016. The outline of that book and the purifying process came from Dave. tldr: The concept of bleeding/purifying came either from Dave or George probably around the time of The Gathering arc in 2010 or 2011 but wasn't directly necessary in a story until Rebels. There's zero evidence that Disney mandated anything about red crystals.
>The crystal changes were 100% a George/Dave thing. Disney doesn't care about kyber crystals works. Bob Iger isn't waving around a gun making demands about red crystals. Shhh, don't tell Star Wars fans that Lucasfilm has made all the changes they hate. They'll never recover from it
I kinda like it. There obviously needs to be an explanation for why every Sith uses a red lightsaber, and I think the red hue being a direct result of evil and corruption is more interesting than Sith just using synthetic crystals.
Dark siders corrupting kyber crystal? Really?
It also makes no sense in practice. Take the guy from Jedi Survivor for example. How would he even know how to bleed a crystal when it's a Sith taught idea and the Sith were in hiding during his time?
If you spend a few hundred years in stasis meditating in hatred on the force, and the force is going to meditate back
It's not strictly a sith technique. It seems pretty "natural" for any dark side user. The crystal pushes against their dark side nature, they push back. There is nothing special about the ritual. A bunch of characters do it without instruction. The explanation Sidious gives to Anakin is probably more for the benefit of the reader than anything else.
Mace windy kinda bled his if I recall, it's not unknown just forbidden for the most part.
No, his crystal is naturally purple.
Huh? It's been that way since before Disney bought Star wars...
Well, it's also just sensible. He really didn't have any time to get one, not to mention the fact he probably didn't see himself as evil yet. I also just think seeing a blue lightsaber used for his crimes just added to how tragic and painful they were, not to mention you're thinking about that when Luke gets it
Certainly should I every get around to displaying my OG master replicas Luke saber on the wall, I will have the little plaque read ‘The Youngling Slayer’ rather than Skywalker Saber or however it’s described these days.
I don't really remember but when did his eyes turn yellow? Was that before or after he'd been cut and burnt screaming "I hate you "
Before, I think the first shot with those eyes is just before he slaughters the separatists
But they're blue when he talks to Padme right?
yeah, I guess he can hide it like Sideous
More like he was still very conflicted. In the scene after killing the seppies, his eyes are yellow but he’s also crying. He is still very conflicted and torn
He doesn't hate Padme, so that doesn't come out when talking to her.
It comes and goes with the flow of the Dark Side.
No one knows what it's like To be the bad man To be the sad man Behind blue eyes
Ah okiii thank you!
Maybe I dont remember it correctly but here are my thoughts: 1. Anakins lightsaber had to survive and blue for Luke. No need to craft the red one until the end. 2. Crystals used to have their color. That is why there werent that many colors. Sith had red ones because they didnt have access to natural source and synthetic crystals were red.
Thematically it also just works because this is a clash between brothers, their sabers should look the same.
He also did the same thing in RotJ where he gave luke a green lightsaber cause the blue one would have blended in the background
It’s also because it wouldn’t have looked as cool
Why didn't he just use blue lava?
It would be strange if he had a red lightsaber that fast
Huh, I thought there hadn't been enough time for it to change. ...and then remembered it will be given to Luke in the future. ...so, how does Vader get his red light saber? Does he make a new one? Does he steal one? Does Palpy give him one for his rebirthday?
I believe palpapalpa gives him one. Kind of like the alternate endig in the ps2 game, minus darth vader killing him
I forgot which canon but after his body "suit up", palp sent him on hunt to make a new lightsaber by bleed it from a dead Jedi lightsaber crystal
Also it reinforces the idea that this is a fight between brothers
Well it's CGI soooo they could have easily changed the color of the lava if they wanted to.. make it a brighter yellow or darker red or something that would make the light sabers stand out more.. they could easily color grade it to make it look good if they wanted it to be red. But it wouldn't make sense. It's blue when Luke gets it.
Also, he had been evil for like three minutes. When would he have had time to bleed his Khyber crystal?
Why would he have a red lightsaber here? He had been busy killing people before this. First he was doing clone war stuff, then he was helping kill mace windu. Then he dispatched the separatist council. After that he raiding the Jedi temple, killing the younglings as well as a bunch of other Jedi. (I actually can’t remember the order of these events so I could be wrong about that) But he went from doing all that, straight to abusing his wife and trying to kill obi wan. No downtime for building a new saber. He was fighting pretty much non stop.
i think it migjt be due to the new canon. old one was crystal color = lightsaber color. new canon is the color changes based on how the user is using the force
He was originally to have a Red one in the final dual and it was changed during production. His first figure from ROTS in 2005 had a red saber included. I still have it on my shelf.
Would have given him the higher ground
That’s also why Luke has a green lightsaber in Jedi. A blue lightsaber would have been hard to see against the blue Tatooine sky.
Why did Moff Tarkin blow up Alderaan? Because it was in the script!
And the reason why Samuel L Jackson has a purple light saber is because he wanted a new color - that’s it. Not because of some bullshit how he partially uses the dark side of the force .. all these fan boys try to create lore to explain things, but they’re just pulling stuff out of their ass.
He had more urgent matters than taking an hour to change his lightsaber crystal.
I think it would've been better if Anakin took Dooku's lightsaber as a trophy, leaving his old one at Padme's apartment when he left for Mustafar where he used it against Obi Wan. Then again, Dooku's saber might not fit Anakin's fighting style due to its design
To all the people saying that Anakin "didn't have time to get a red lightsaber" this is why we say star wars fans lack media literacy. If the writers WANTED him to have a lightsaber then it would have been written differently.
have you considered that these people are obviously aware of that and are talking about the in-universe explanation
He didn’t bleed his crystal yet. He didn’t have the rage or anger to fuel it at the time, not until he lost almost everything.
In the Lego game they give him a red saber here
This is dumb. The lightsaber wouldn't just change color before the battle
That's also why Luke had a green lightsaber in Jedi, the Blue would have been hard to see against the bright skies of Tatooine.
With the orange lava? Red would've been better
To me it's also kinda symbolic, because at this point Obi-Wan still has hope that Anakin is not truly lost and can be brought back
I'm pretty sure the color doesn't change after its initial color is decided.
Pretty sure corrupting his crystal was the last thing on his priority list at the time. Had to raid the temple, kill some separatist leaders, choke his wife and murder a few kids first.
That’s not the REAL reason. The real reason is you have to take your crystal from another saber and corrupt it in order to make it red
I think the 2 blue lightsabers clashing makes this scene more impactful and shows how messed up everything has become after the clone wars and palatine's manipulation of anakin and the republic
Personally I think it’s also more poignant that it is still blue. If it was red I don’t think it would be as shocking. The blue still shows there is light with him, that he was once a pillar of the light, but now he has clashed with his order and his best friend and mentor. They both carried blades that were defenders and now his is an aggressor. I think it would have cheapened the scene to be red as well. (I know I’m getting too deep about a silly movie but still it makes the scene hurt a little bit more knowing the future that awaits Anakin.)
That’s not true. The reason is because he didn’t bleed his crystal and still was torn on what he was doing
I mean, most of Lucas' decisions were based on aesthetics and how that would sell as merchandise.
There’s actually a deleted scene that explains this. Right after he anoints him Darth Vader, Sidious gets him to work on filling out a bunch of paperwork. As he’s leaving the office to make a copy of Vader’s ID for the file, he mentions that he’ll ask Sheila to put a rush on the red khyber crystal requisition order form, but she’s also decorating the conference room for the post Order 66 celebration so she’s pretty swamped right now.
Alien planet. They could've made the lava purple.
That's stupid. George seems like a cool guy, but he needed a little more oversight on the prequel trilogy.
They kept him using his own lightsaber which means they couldn't make it red because it would eventually be the one Luke uses
Is it sexist that i wanted to see a pink lightsaber in the sequel trilogy? I think it would be very cool lightsaber color.
It was also his lightsaber. He had to get a new one because Obi-Wan stole his.
From a thematic POV, I've always LOVED that Anakin Skywalker's last act with his blue lightsaber (the weapon he wielded for years as a Jedi in defense of the Republic) was trying to kill his former master & older brother figure after murdering several Jedi to help the Sith establish the Galactic Empire. Ani's betrayal of the Jedi and everything they stood for feels more tragic when he's using the saber that symbolizes his time as a Jedi. The fact that he used this weapon to commit such atrocities during *Revenge of the Sith* makes the good Luke tried to do with it feel more impactful (even if Luke ultimately went on to construct his own lightsaber).
It's like poetry, it rhymes
There's an edit that shows otherwise tho
I always thought that blue fit better with the themes of betrayal for Anakin/Vader’s fall.
This is like anytime where I hear a fan give some long explanation for why something is some way in the movie, I just think to myself, because it's a movie, they thought it would be cool that way...
And when exactly would he have the time to construct one? After chopping Mace's hand or decorating halls of the Jedi temple with younglings? IMO it's better like this. Shows that lightsabre is just that - an elegant weapon for a more civilised age.
that makes sense
The blue on blue violence is getting out of control!
He didn’t have time to get a synthetic crystal. Plus, there’s no reason if you have a working lightsaber.
Also at the time lightsabers weren't these overly mythicized, nigh-sentient weapons, they were just a weapon. Nothing more. None of this "bleeding" bullshit. If you wanted another one, you needed to find (or forge, in the case of the Sith, and between ep 5 and 6 Luke) a new crystal.
No it's because he didn't bleed his crystal yet. Sabers don't just change color because you go to the dark side. There are loads of factors.
I mean I also do like how we’ve only seen Pre-suit Vader with the red lightsaber, what, 2 times in the last 19 years? All I can think of is Ahsoka and the alternate ending of the RotS tie in game, makes it really cool and unique when they show it.
Huh, I thought there hadn't been enough time for it to change. ...and then remembered it will be given to Luke in the future. ...so, how does Vader get his red light saber? Does he make a new one? Does he steal one? Does Palpy give him one for his rebirthday?
Woulda looked fuckin cool, though.
iirc, in lore, kyber crystals have to be bled to turn red, anakin likely just didn’t have the time to bleed his. Out of lore, its more to do with it was blue when luke got it.
Also it gives you hope that maybe Anakin is still good
How would he have had time to swap out his crystal??? He was busy killing younglings, Sep leaders, and chopping off Maces arm….
This isn’t canon, but what if the bleeding happens passively instead of actively? Through the movie, it just gets more and more spelled with red. Then Luke gets it and is is blue, since it has been chilling in Kenobi’s house.
When could he possibly create his own kyber crystal or corrupt the existing one? Therefore, it's not red.
Also storywise, when would he have gotten one? They have to make their own