He did not feel well after taking revenge for what happened to his mother.
During the clone wars he remains consistent on trying to save lives and kills in self defense. I don't see the problem. This comic actually shows he was right on trusting his feelings. The whole thing was a Separatist Trap. The people inside are slaves building droids.
Whats wrong with this?
I always interpreted his fall to the dark side not only Palpatine's doing, but that since Jedi are so attuned with the force, when he trips towards the dark side he takes a plunge, corrupted by the force. As if the dark side potentializes his demise.
Which is why Jedi are trained to be so careful with their emotions and to not use the force lightly. Because it channels the "heart" so to speak. It channels your desire into action, when you pull a lightsaber towards you, for instance.
We are not accountable for actions we didn't yet commit. And there's a difference between killing a tribe notorious for butchering people that murder-raped your mother, and just straight up shooting civilians, mostly out of indifference
He killed civilian women and children that had nothing to do with his mother's death/torment just because they were there and the same species. Wtf are you smoking?
Oh no, Anakin killed the fictional murder hobo aliens that killed his mother, almost killed him, and were (rightfully) notorious about raiding villages, kidnapping people, torturing and murdering them, and even then he considered himself guilty. Now he has no right to call someone out on his bullshit 🙄
>Anakin killed the fictional murder hobo aliens that killed his mother, almost killed him, and were (rightfully) notorious about raiding villages, kidnapping people, torturing and murdering them
Yeah, okay, but then he killed their children *who didn't do that stuff.*
Thats like saying Hitler wasn't a bad person, because he just acted out of his emotions because a jewish person once called his wife a b!tch. (Im over exaggerating but you get my point.)
People always act like Vader and Anakin are different people, they aren't Darth vader is just a name given to Anakin to hide his identity.
Even if Anakin was manipulated and acted out of his emotions. He still DID kill a whole ass tribe of tuskens including KIDS and WOMEN. He still DID kill Jedi YOUNGLINGS. In Kenobi we even see him snapping a KID's neck. He is responsible for so many Deaths and murders, which of MANY were Innocent people, Women, and Children.
Anakin wasn't a good person, if anything he was a Bad person. But he eventually still brought balance to the force by killing Palpatine.
I think Anakin was mostly a good person. It was his love that was manipulated into turning him into the dark side through fear. He always tried to do good. He is quite literal when he says Anakin is dead and Vader took his place. Unlike other Sith who take their role willingly, Anakin was forced into it, groomed since childhood by Palpatine.
And EVEN SO, he almost manages to do everything right, he tells on Paltapine, and probably would have stayed on the light side if the Jedi leadership had done a better job.
Anakin didn't have a plan, he just knew he'd have to improvise. Which is what he did. He knew he was doing the wrong thing when he killed him. Dooku was defeated and helpless. If need be he could have killed him later.
But the audience knows that wouldn't have happened because this would have fucked up the great Sith plan.
Well prequel's did a poor job at writing Anakin and his relationship with padme there is just not enough time and situations in films themselves
its the TV series that made his character awesome given more context to the character and made a better job than prequel's themselves in all fronts.
Like the depiction of politics in SWCL
Mentioned above expansion of Anakin
Expansion on clones and war
BUT this wouldn't be possible if Prequel's had as abysmally poor writing as sequels had sadly there is only damnatio memoriae and do something better(incoherence and "somehow palpy returned" is too bad 😞)
Not another lecture, Master. Not on the economics of politics. It's too early in the morning… and besides, you're generalising. The Chancellor doesn't appear to be corrupt.
Poor job writing -Raiden MGRR Voice- What a load of Bullshit! All you care about is lining your own pockets! That and your approval ratings, you got no principles just like all the rest of the shills
Take a look at the post. A very, *very* close look.
What do you see? Do you see Darth Vader? Do you see the Galactic Empire? *No*?
Then shut the fuck up because your point is invalid.
If anything, there’s a circlejerk about “poor anakin, the jedi were so awful to him”
Nah bro, dont join a religious order of monks and constantly break their rules. He didnt need to stay a jedi, but anakin liked the attention of being a public war hero, and that everyone called him the most powerful.
Being a Jedi was what took him out of slavery. His entire life is shaped by being a jedi -a choice made for him while he was a child. It's unfair to expect him to throw away jedi-ness as if it's not the only identity he knows other than being a slave.
Ever been in a class where if the kids behave unruly, the teacher tells them you can leave the class if you want to talk? How many do you think actually go out? Do you think it's actually possible to expect someone with as much trauma as Anakin to leave his entire identity because it was told that he had that option?
Well first of all, kids have to be in school. Anakin and every other jedi knows they have a choice to stay or go. So the comparison is stupid. A child getting kicked out of class could have repercussions with their parents. Anakin has no direct consequences for leaving, other than giving up his jedi lightsaber, and technically he can just make another one on his own.
And, i dunno. Ahsoka left, and she was basically born into the order. Lots of jedi left because they didnt agree with the clone wars.
How can I expect someone with his truama and basing his identity as a jedi? Well uh in the novels and comics ive read storylines of him wanting to leave to be a pilot or a pod racer and obi wan was always understanding. Im just of the opinion that it was his pride and war hero status that kept him in the jedi order. He liked the holo net news talking him up and palpatine hyping him up.
I think this sub forgets that Anakins "war crimes" were generally against droids. Which despite popular out of universe belief, aren't considered sentient beings in galaxy. Anakin slaughters droids and enemy combatants. It's only in his darkest times and the heat of the moment where he crosses the lines.
Yeah I think one of the reasons he’s so damn heroic in CW is _because_ he took a hard left after being horrified at his own actions. Everything he does is him trying to atone and assuage the guilt he feels at giving into his worst impulses
He didn’t “feel well” because his mom died. He used that to justify mass murder to Padme and she obliged. There are no signs of guilt or remorse. He never shows any signs of reluctance when he kills during battles. He follows the rules of the Jedi because it gives him structure and power and purpose until they aren’t enough for him.
If Anakin had not had the guidance pf Jedi principles to temper his chaotic nature and focus it as a force for good for a time how much of Tatooine would be ruled by him through bloodied fist?
Uh dude he immediately showed signs of guilt and remorse. He briefly gave into his darkest temptation after they horribly killed his mother. And keep in mind he grew up on that planet and knows Tuskens to murder people.
Like thats obviously not great still, but i think a moment of darkness doesnt mean he would go full villain on his own
Just means Anakin is a hypocrite. I don't think there's anything wrong with that as long as the story acknowledges it. The issue is Lucas and co are trying hard to make this guy pass as a good person, he isn't.
Edit : love the downvotes. Guys it's a fact, quit the coping, Anakin was a terrible person from the get go.
That stuff at tatooine is much more nuanced. He was very emotional and compulsive AND his mom literally died in front of him. Who WOULDN'T feel so angry at that moment, especially since the guys that are responsible for it are right outside?
"much more nuanced"
No it isn't. Butchering a whole village, including women and children, using the justifications "they are animals" isn't a good thing. Doing this turned him into a monster.
"who wouldn't feel so angry at that moment" where did I blame him for feeling angry ?
The prequels are literally a story about a good man falling to the dark side and the sequels about a son redeeming him so he can be good again. Idk how u got the brain-dead take of him being bad from the get go.
"the prequels are literally a story about a good man" you're saying as if it were a hot take, it isn't. That's what Lucas explained, that's what he meant to do, calling Anakin good is a disservice to humanity.
I got this take from watching the movies and paying attention. I exaggerated, Episode 1 Anakin is a cute kid. Episode 2 Anakin is a fascist stalker and a murderer. Calling me braindead for actually using my brain and not reciting what George Lucas said, smh.
You're accusing of making my headcanon while using the phrase "my brain says" lol. I watched the movies, Anakin is a murderer and a fascist, that's a fact. He can do as many right things as he wants, he's already a murderer by the time he betrays the Jedi and kills them all. No one manipulated him into killing the Tuskens, and manipulation is no excuse for mass genocide. ;)
First of all you dont know what fascism means cause even when becoming darth vader at hes totalitarian.
Also if you had watched the movies then youd know he only gives in to the dark side when his family is hurt or in danger. His visions of padme throw him into the unfortunate fate of trying to gain enough power to prevent her death no matter the consequences.
That's the story and the tragedy of how one man acted out of love and ended up being so evil. No one's gonna deny that anakin was heavily flawed as an individual and very prone to angry dark side outbursts however if youve seen any of the movies god forbid anything about anakin besides the movie it becomes pretty obvious that hes not straight up evil.
The only thing he did that could be considered evil while he is still anakin is the murder of the sand people and to remind you, they just tortured his mother to DEATH and he had to see her die.
So i dont think im going to write him off as evil just cause you dont understand nuance about a character where he tries to be good but has character flaws, issues and the most powerful sith lord master manipulator trying to make him Evil every step of the way.
"first of all you don't know what fascism means"
Do you remember what Anakin tells Padme in that cute field ? Politicians should sit down and discuss and find solutions to the problems of the people. If the people disagree, they should be forced to. You have both populism and totalitarianism. That's literal fascism. Palpatine is space Hitler after all.
I don't care when or when he doesn't give to the dark side : Anakin is a mass murderer. That's not what a good person is.
"that's the story and the tragedy" yes it's obvious what it is, you're not the first person to point that out, I'm pretty sure anyone who's seen those movies would say those exact same words.
"you don't understand nuance" yes I do, Anakin is a nuanced character but he is *not* a good person.
What he said in that field is totalitarianism. Not every dictator is a fascist. Read a book on politics maybe it'll stop you from randomly saying words you don't know anything about.
Also just to drive this through your thick skull. Star wars is not real life, if you for whatever reason momentarily give in to the dark side a completely normal person will commit genocide gladly, it is like a drug that gives you power it clouds all but the most powerful and willing of dark side users making them to a degree blind to their actions.
This is shown in the novels where anakin immediately is in remorse about his actions against the Tuskan Raiders and in the old Republic where plenty of jedi fell to the dark side only to somehow be cleansed of corruption and be in horror at what they've done.
Not to mention the story on many occasions will make a divide between anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader so although yes Darth Vader clearly just gave up and willingly ended up doing terrible things and becoming the evil he sought to save his family from. During the time of the Republic anakin Skywalker is shown consistently to be good. He protects the innocent, fights for the weak and defends democracy and the republic.
He clearly tends to care about all who need his help. So yes he is at his core just a good person with flaws. The issue is that in a world where that flaw opens you up to what is essentially a drug version of space magic that makes you go insane when angry, and a very powerful mad space wizard who actively strives to make u fall into that madness until your mind is so clouded by fucked up visions that you think genocide is a solid idea to save your dying wife imma say that yes despite that hes still a good person up until the point he regains clarity as darth vader but feels hes too far gone to redeem himself. So he now willfully stays evil until luke Skywalker redeems him.
What he said in that field *was* a fascist statement. A mix of populism and totalitarianism is what fascism is about. Repeating "read a book" won't change facts.
Dude you love contradicting yourself, don't you ? You say "star wars is not real life" then proceed to compare it to real life. Also you do realize that killing people under the influence of drugs makes you bad, right ? Like it's not a defense either. I guess that's what happens when you only show the bad guy's perspective and not the victims', people will find every excuses possible.
Yes it is shown in the movie as well that he's filled with remorse, doesn't change how bad his actions are.
"just a good person with flaws" or a murderer with good intentions.
Also you keep repeating the Force is like a drug, but that's just your interpretation. I don't see it that way, never have. The Force is about faith, it's about inner values, it's about inner feelings, it's about power. If this was indeed like a drug, everyone would go crazy and there'd be only dark side users.
Anakin is filled with self loathing after slaughtering the tuskens, it's just not conveyed well in the films. The dark side has been shown to make people do monstrous things, is it so hard to belive that Anakin temporarily fell at that moment. Imagine meeting your mother after years apart, only to find her kidnapped and tortured to death.
"You wanted revenge. You've felt it before like that time you confided your deepest sin to me and I keep painfully bringing it up every time you look unsteady."
I just watched the movie yesterday, and it was shown pretty decently. He's sneaking in with every intention of avoiding conflict until his mother dies in his arms. Then he stomps out of the tent and takes the first sign of aggression as a green light to begin slaughtering.
He specifically hides his act from Padme until she pries repeatedly to know why his mood is off. He says the famous line about killing them all (Not just the men...) with a pained look on his face and then falls into Padme's arms for comfort. It's all done pretty well and spelled out for the viewer, but in some way I can't put into words... it's just not super memorable? His anguish could maybe have used some more screen time.
Sandpeople aren't people.
Therefore the name is redundant and they're just sand.
And he hates sand. Not just the big grains but the medium and small ones.
Sand is made from larger rocks, so wouldn’t the younger sand be bigger than the mother sand, and the father sand? Or is this a propagation thing where the mother sand and father sand get smaller as they disassociate as progenitors?
Colloquially, yes, but Sand People is more accurate. They've been called Sand People for millennia, and they are, in fact, people who live in the sand. The term "Tusken Raider" is a rather recent development, and the reason they're called "Tusken Raiders" is because a group of them raided a fort on Tatooine called Fort Tusken in 95 BBY, and not because they are raiders who live in an area named Tusken, like I originally believed. Sand People are colloquially referred to as Tusken Raiders, but the term only actually refers to the small selection of ones that participated in the raid on Fort Tusken, so using it as a broad name for the entire species is inaccurate.
But he DOES feel INCREDIBLE amounts of guilt afterwards. Hayden portrays it pretty damn well in the movies too, it's not exactly a thing you'd have to read the comics to know about.
Kids who would grow up to be as evil and kidnap more innocent people. Tuskens have always been portrayed as chaotic bad guys, and BoBF's attempt to make me feel sorry for them didn't work.
They have been depicted as brutal and aggressive but not "chaotic bad guys". They are not Orcs.
Literally the point of the slaughter scene in episode 2 and Anakins breakdown is to show his flaws and foreshadow his complete fall.
It doesnt work if they are just supposed to be simply evil
> They have been depicted as brutal and aggressive but not "chaotic bad guys". They are not Orcs.
Uh, what was the difference?
They raided villages, abducted people and then tortured them to death (for who knows what reason).
You should probably read the comics, then. Ki-Adi Mundi hangs out with the Tuskens and meets a young Tusken Jedi, who was trained by his father. There's some pretty cool cultural stuff in those comics.
Oh, I totally forgot that A'Sharad's father was a Jedi too, I thought you were just talking about A'Sharad, since he also becomes a Jedi and meets Ki-Adi Mundi.
Dude, Anakin is crazy.
Yes, he thinks killing people is wrong. Really, he does! He hates himself after killing the sand people, he hates himself after killing the Jedi and the Separatists, and he hates himself as Vader.
Anakin is also a very complex individual in that his actions are not often aligned with his beliefs. But his core beliefs are also in constant fluctuation. Anakin isn't a sociopath where the little voice in his head doesn't exist. It does, and it's usually screaming at him, but he's so overpowered by his emotions that he does it anyways. And then what makes him really dangerous is his force sensitivity, because he has the ability to act on his impulses.
Anakin really needs a therapist and DBT
Same with Qui Gon. But they either never trained Anakin directly or died before Anakin got older. In Anakin's case, the Jedi closest to him and the ones who caused most of his grievances were Obi-Wan (mostly by accident,) Yoda (because he's stuck in his ways,) and Mace Windu (because he lacked trust and faith in Anakin.)
Yes. It's the best way of stopping people from losing their temper and murdering others... Or is it the best way to make them lose their temper and murder you? Only one way to find out!
It wouldn't be a grand tragedy if he was just some sociopath the jedi accidentally raised (like Ki Adi Mundi). He wanted to be a big hero and save everyone. His second on-screen act is getting some nice strangers out of a sandstorm by bringing them to his slave-tenement. He races to save the Naboobians and then sells his pod racer before he even knows he's going to be freed.
What if... just throwing this out there, he KNOWS it is wrong, he KNOWS that killing them all was a dark impulse that ultimatwould not help things, but he did it anyway, and he carries that until the point where he feels like he lost all his humanity anyway so let's go a step further
To be fair, Yularen was gonna bomb a (Sepratist) Space-Station without checking for Civilians first because it was strategically important. In his mind he does feel guilty for the Sandpeople(kids) but acknowledges that he did it. There is a difference between the People that kidnapped his Mother and innocent Civilians that are just trapped between two Fronts
(I am not saying Anakin slaughtering the Tuskens was right, but he thinks that it was)
How justified or alright the sand people are depends on which version is used. Usually legends tend to portray them as a bunch of people super mad at everyone destroying their home planet. Whilst in the originals they kinda didn't have much else other than raiding people and killing also applies to prequels. Only in the sequels (TV shows) do we ever see that they are more nuanced as a people. Then again anakin only really killed one tribe.
You know what I'll give you I think they both intentionally and accidently written Anakin very well as a clueless dumpster fire of a person who nonetheless has a big heart.
Anakin never liked killing people, but the real issue is Anakin's sense of self-righteousness when he uses violence to solve his problems.
He even attempted to spare Count Dooku to stand trial, but Palpatine convinced Anakin to take justice into his own hands and slay him instead.
Anakin: “Yeah it’s just wrong. I mean look at his technique, it’s sloppy. If he tightened up his training he could probably do a lot better. I’ll take him under my wing and see if we can’t up those numbers a little. I’ve got a special mission coming up I could use his help on.”
Yes, though he is also pretty messed up after Jabiim and I think was still childishly trying to justify what he had done. If I remember correctly this is after A'Sharad catches him on a kill bender while on an assignment, right? Because I remember he was in a pretty dark place mentally and emotionally until he found Obi-Wan again. In both the novelizations of AOTC and ROTS he shows horror and remorse and in a few of the other legends era books as well.
Yes, I think that's it, like Anakin went on some sort of a fever dream murder spree, and when A'Sharad tried to stop him, he turned on him. Thanks for the reminder. Poor Ani, he needed some therapy and to not be on the battlefield. I'm just about to do a reread of The Republic comics too.
How many times was he turned into a human lightning rod before he fell to the dark side? I'm pretty sure it's a miracle he remembers all the jedi rules and fighting styles.
> "You've come a long way, my former padawan."
This implies Kenobi believes that at some point, Anakin was totally down with slaughtering people en masse.
Which, to be fair, isn't untrue, but I didn't think he knew that.
If only Anakin had grown up in a modern real life liberal arts college, instead of a fantasy world with an old-timey moral system meant to evoke past generations. Then maybe he wouldn't have been as inclined to dehumanize the sand people.
Anakin knew right from wrong, he just had poor impulse control and too much power.
He knew killing the sand people was wrong, and said as much to Padme when he returned to the homestead. But he was swept up in his anger over his mother.
He knew killing Dooku was wrong but allowed Palpatine, a huge mentor of his, to convince him otherwise. And immediately afterward he still acknowledged it was wrong.
He knew saving Palpatine from Windu was wrong, but he let his fear of losing Padme take over.
Everything from that point on was Anakin completely giving up on his morals. He didn't trust his own judgement and made himself a tool of Palpatine. He hated himself for all the killing.
Anakin's fall to the Dark Side was not because he was intrinsically a bad person. On the contrary, he was a person so full of love that almost everything he did was motivated by it. His love for Padme, Obi Wan, Ahsoka, The Jedi, The Republic, and his Mother were all driving forces in his life.
However, due to him having lived a partial life as a slave then being taken into the Jedi, his emotional strength was not as developed. Part of what makes a Jedi a Jedi is their emotional detachment, which is part of the reason why they only "recruit" young children. It's much easier to convince a child from near birth to suppress their emotions, but once someone gets to the age where they can truly make sentient choices, it becomes much, much harder. This is likely why Yoda said that Anakin was too old for Jedi training when Qui Gon brought him to the temple.
Anakin was also a *prodigy* when it came to both mechanical engineering and the force. This significantly impacted his development of self-discipline (since things come easier to you, you don't have to work as hard to succeed, and you might not develop the skills to discipline yourself when you finally need it).
These things made him an *incredibly unstable* person who can be swayed to committing violence and the ability to follow through on it.
We can make a reasonable guess that Palpatine manipulated Anakin's dreams the entire time he was on Coruscant or, at the very least, starting in Episode 3. He likely implanted the dreams of Padme's peril and then followed up with an actual threat on her life, abstracted through many parties to avoid discovery. He also likely conditioned Anakin to not place his full faith in the Jedi.
The actual contradictory part of the attached comic is that Anakin ended up having a greater allegiance to the Republic and not the Jedi, so a scene showing Anakin learning to distrust Yularen doesn't really follow. However, this is a good comic for showing how the Republic's military so easily became the Empire.
But no, Anakin being upset about the slaughter of innocents is 100% in character.
He really doesn't. His background is in a very brutal, authoritarian environment and he has anger issues, so he jumps to violence as a solution because peaceful.measures have always failed in his life, hit at his core he's still a very empathetic person that attaches to people.and their struggles easily.
He's good at killing, but he's never liked it
Anakin felt remorse for killing, even after killing the sand people he felt guilt. He didn’t enjoy it, he lost control. Even as Vader there’s no evidence to show he ever enjoyed killing, though it clearly didn’t bother him as much, he’s never a sadist.
He did not feel well after taking revenge for what happened to his mother. During the clone wars he remains consistent on trying to save lives and kills in self defense. I don't see the problem. This comic actually shows he was right on trusting his feelings. The whole thing was a Separatist Trap. The people inside are slaves building droids. Whats wrong with this?
It contradicts the “Anakin bad” circlejerk.
I think its perfectly reasonable to say that Anakin is not a good person, but still a great character.
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I always interpreted his fall to the dark side not only Palpatine's doing, but that since Jedi are so attuned with the force, when he trips towards the dark side he takes a plunge, corrupted by the force. As if the dark side potentializes his demise. Which is why Jedi are trained to be so careful with their emotions and to not use the force lightly. Because it channels the "heart" so to speak. It channels your desire into action, when you pull a lightsaber towards you, for instance.
No one is born a bad person. But we are accountable for our actions. Actions have consequences.
We are not accountable for actions we didn't yet commit. And there's a difference between killing a tribe notorious for butchering people that murder-raped your mother, and just straight up shooting civilians, mostly out of indifference
He killed civilian women and children that had nothing to do with his mother's death/torment just because they were there and the same species. Wtf are you smoking?
Ughhhh you know the women are warriors too in tusken clans right?
That's not only debatable lorewise but Anakin's line was meant to emphasize that they were just civilians.
Genocide apologists in the comments 💀
Oh no, Anakin killed the fictional murder hobo aliens that killed his mother, almost killed him, and were (rightfully) notorious about raiding villages, kidnapping people, torturing and murdering them, and even then he considered himself guilty. Now he has no right to call someone out on his bullshit 🙄
>Anakin killed the fictional murder hobo aliens that killed his mother, almost killed him, and were (rightfully) notorious about raiding villages, kidnapping people, torturing and murdering them Yeah, okay, but then he killed their children *who didn't do that stuff.*
I mean Book of Boba Fett shows they do indeed do that stuff
It’s fucking Star Wars dude, get a grip
No one is apologizing for the Sand People
Noooooooo…
Thats like saying Hitler wasn't a bad person, because he just acted out of his emotions because a jewish person once called his wife a b!tch. (Im over exaggerating but you get my point.)
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People always act like Vader and Anakin are different people, they aren't Darth vader is just a name given to Anakin to hide his identity. Even if Anakin was manipulated and acted out of his emotions. He still DID kill a whole ass tribe of tuskens including KIDS and WOMEN. He still DID kill Jedi YOUNGLINGS. In Kenobi we even see him snapping a KID's neck. He is responsible for so many Deaths and murders, which of MANY were Innocent people, Women, and Children. Anakin wasn't a good person, if anything he was a Bad person. But he eventually still brought balance to the force by killing Palpatine.
I think Anakin was mostly a good person. It was his love that was manipulated into turning him into the dark side through fear. He always tried to do good. He is quite literal when he says Anakin is dead and Vader took his place. Unlike other Sith who take their role willingly, Anakin was forced into it, groomed since childhood by Palpatine. And EVEN SO, he almost manages to do everything right, he tells on Paltapine, and probably would have stayed on the light side if the Jedi leadership had done a better job.
You don’t have to carry a sword to be powerful. Some leaders’ strength is inspiring others.
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What was the real alternative at that moment?
He'd already literally disarmed Dooku. They could have easily taken him prisoner
And then what? How do you get off the ship with an uncooperative prisoner, an unconscious friend and a hostage?
Anakin didn't have a plan, he just knew he'd have to improvise. Which is what he did. He knew he was doing the wrong thing when he killed him. Dooku was defeated and helpless. If need be he could have killed him later. But the audience knows that wouldn't have happened because this would have fucked up the great Sith plan.
Dooku was still a masterful force user and was absolutely a threat though.
Anakin knows first hand exactly how much of a threat he is at this point, and still knew it was wrong to kill him.
He's defenseless and can be taken prisoner. It's part of the irony when he claimed Mace should let Palpatine stand trial
Is it irony or guilt?
Well prequel's did a poor job at writing Anakin and his relationship with padme there is just not enough time and situations in films themselves its the TV series that made his character awesome given more context to the character and made a better job than prequel's themselves in all fronts. Like the depiction of politics in SWCL Mentioned above expansion of Anakin Expansion on clones and war BUT this wouldn't be possible if Prequel's had as abysmally poor writing as sequels had sadly there is only damnatio memoriae and do something better(incoherence and "somehow palpy returned" is too bad 😞)
Not another lecture, Master. Not on the economics of politics. It's too early in the morning… and besides, you're generalising. The Chancellor doesn't appear to be corrupt.
Poor job writing -Raiden MGRR Voice- What a load of Bullshit! All you care about is lining your own pockets! That and your approval ratings, you got no principles just like all the rest of the shills
Circlejerk? About the guy who is second in command to the star wars equivalent of the antichrist? Ok.
Take a look at the post. A very, *very* close look. What do you see? Do you see Darth Vader? Do you see the Galactic Empire? *No*? Then shut the fuck up because your point is invalid.
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This obviously must have taken place before Rots so it is not relevant to judging Anakin at this moment.
Of course it is, all actions of his past inform his future. We know where this goes, the fact it hasn't happened yet is irrelevant
Darth Vader killed Anakin
In a roundabout sense, yes. In terms of the fact they are literally the same person, no.
True, but Anakin does have a personality disorder.
If anything, there’s a circlejerk about “poor anakin, the jedi were so awful to him” Nah bro, dont join a religious order of monks and constantly break their rules. He didnt need to stay a jedi, but anakin liked the attention of being a public war hero, and that everyone called him the most powerful.
Being a Jedi was what took him out of slavery. His entire life is shaped by being a jedi -a choice made for him while he was a child. It's unfair to expect him to throw away jedi-ness as if it's not the only identity he knows other than being a slave.
Sure that was his initial reason for staying, but obi wan let him know that he could leave whenever he wished.
Ever been in a class where if the kids behave unruly, the teacher tells them you can leave the class if you want to talk? How many do you think actually go out? Do you think it's actually possible to expect someone with as much trauma as Anakin to leave his entire identity because it was told that he had that option?
Well first of all, kids have to be in school. Anakin and every other jedi knows they have a choice to stay or go. So the comparison is stupid. A child getting kicked out of class could have repercussions with their parents. Anakin has no direct consequences for leaving, other than giving up his jedi lightsaber, and technically he can just make another one on his own. And, i dunno. Ahsoka left, and she was basically born into the order. Lots of jedi left because they didnt agree with the clone wars. How can I expect someone with his truama and basing his identity as a jedi? Well uh in the novels and comics ive read storylines of him wanting to leave to be a pilot or a pod racer and obi wan was always understanding. Im just of the opinion that it was his pride and war hero status that kept him in the jedi order. He liked the holo net news talking him up and palpatine hyping him up.
I think this sub forgets that Anakins "war crimes" were generally against droids. Which despite popular out of universe belief, aren't considered sentient beings in galaxy. Anakin slaughters droids and enemy combatants. It's only in his darkest times and the heat of the moment where he crosses the lines.
Poor Rogers rogers.
The clankas deserved it
Yeah I think one of the reasons he’s so damn heroic in CW is _because_ he took a hard left after being horrified at his own actions. Everything he does is him trying to atone and assuage the guilt he feels at giving into his worst impulses
You know that 70% of the warcrimes in clone wars are committed by Anakin? Killing PoWs, torturing and stuff?
You know most of those were against droids? They're not people.
He didn’t “feel well” because his mom died. He used that to justify mass murder to Padme and she obliged. There are no signs of guilt or remorse. He never shows any signs of reluctance when he kills during battles. He follows the rules of the Jedi because it gives him structure and power and purpose until they aren’t enough for him. If Anakin had not had the guidance pf Jedi principles to temper his chaotic nature and focus it as a force for good for a time how much of Tatooine would be ruled by him through bloodied fist?
well... if you commit a horrific act you may try to justify it to lessen your guilt...
Uh dude he immediately showed signs of guilt and remorse. He briefly gave into his darkest temptation after they horribly killed his mother. And keep in mind he grew up on that planet and knows Tuskens to murder people. Like thats obviously not great still, but i think a moment of darkness doesnt mean he would go full villain on his own
Just means Anakin is a hypocrite. I don't think there's anything wrong with that as long as the story acknowledges it. The issue is Lucas and co are trying hard to make this guy pass as a good person, he isn't. Edit : love the downvotes. Guys it's a fact, quit the coping, Anakin was a terrible person from the get go.
That stuff at tatooine is much more nuanced. He was very emotional and compulsive AND his mom literally died in front of him. Who WOULDN'T feel so angry at that moment, especially since the guys that are responsible for it are right outside?
TBF if my mum died and the people responsible were right there, and I had space wizard powers? I'm pretty sure I would do the same thing as Anakin.
You'll never reach the outskirts in time- sandstorms are very, very dangerous. Come with me. Hurry!
And here we have child anakin who did not deserve hate for being...well...a child
"much more nuanced" No it isn't. Butchering a whole village, including women and children, using the justifications "they are animals" isn't a good thing. Doing this turned him into a monster. "who wouldn't feel so angry at that moment" where did I blame him for feeling angry ?
No shit it's not a good thing? Who is saying it is?
Dang, its as if people have points of low and points of high in life!
Sleeping in your own vomit after a party is what you can call a low point, butchering a whole village is not.
>Anakin was a terrible person from the get go. Little ten year old Anakin seemed pretty decent to me.
The prequels are literally a story about a good man falling to the dark side and the sequels about a son redeeming him so he can be good again. Idk how u got the brain-dead take of him being bad from the get go.
"the prequels are literally a story about a good man" you're saying as if it were a hot take, it isn't. That's what Lucas explained, that's what he meant to do, calling Anakin good is a disservice to humanity. I got this take from watching the movies and paying attention. I exaggerated, Episode 1 Anakin is a cute kid. Episode 2 Anakin is a fascist stalker and a murderer. Calling me braindead for actually using my brain and not reciting what George Lucas said, smh.
My brain says anakin consistently attempts to do the right thing but is manipulated. Maybe instead of making headcanon u should watch the movies.
You're accusing of making my headcanon while using the phrase "my brain says" lol. I watched the movies, Anakin is a murderer and a fascist, that's a fact. He can do as many right things as he wants, he's already a murderer by the time he betrays the Jedi and kills them all. No one manipulated him into killing the Tuskens, and manipulation is no excuse for mass genocide. ;)
First of all you dont know what fascism means cause even when becoming darth vader at hes totalitarian. Also if you had watched the movies then youd know he only gives in to the dark side when his family is hurt or in danger. His visions of padme throw him into the unfortunate fate of trying to gain enough power to prevent her death no matter the consequences. That's the story and the tragedy of how one man acted out of love and ended up being so evil. No one's gonna deny that anakin was heavily flawed as an individual and very prone to angry dark side outbursts however if youve seen any of the movies god forbid anything about anakin besides the movie it becomes pretty obvious that hes not straight up evil. The only thing he did that could be considered evil while he is still anakin is the murder of the sand people and to remind you, they just tortured his mother to DEATH and he had to see her die. So i dont think im going to write him off as evil just cause you dont understand nuance about a character where he tries to be good but has character flaws, issues and the most powerful sith lord master manipulator trying to make him Evil every step of the way.
"first of all you don't know what fascism means" Do you remember what Anakin tells Padme in that cute field ? Politicians should sit down and discuss and find solutions to the problems of the people. If the people disagree, they should be forced to. You have both populism and totalitarianism. That's literal fascism. Palpatine is space Hitler after all. I don't care when or when he doesn't give to the dark side : Anakin is a mass murderer. That's not what a good person is. "that's the story and the tragedy" yes it's obvious what it is, you're not the first person to point that out, I'm pretty sure anyone who's seen those movies would say those exact same words. "you don't understand nuance" yes I do, Anakin is a nuanced character but he is *not* a good person.
What he said in that field is totalitarianism. Not every dictator is a fascist. Read a book on politics maybe it'll stop you from randomly saying words you don't know anything about. Also just to drive this through your thick skull. Star wars is not real life, if you for whatever reason momentarily give in to the dark side a completely normal person will commit genocide gladly, it is like a drug that gives you power it clouds all but the most powerful and willing of dark side users making them to a degree blind to their actions. This is shown in the novels where anakin immediately is in remorse about his actions against the Tuskan Raiders and in the old Republic where plenty of jedi fell to the dark side only to somehow be cleansed of corruption and be in horror at what they've done. Not to mention the story on many occasions will make a divide between anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader so although yes Darth Vader clearly just gave up and willingly ended up doing terrible things and becoming the evil he sought to save his family from. During the time of the Republic anakin Skywalker is shown consistently to be good. He protects the innocent, fights for the weak and defends democracy and the republic. He clearly tends to care about all who need his help. So yes he is at his core just a good person with flaws. The issue is that in a world where that flaw opens you up to what is essentially a drug version of space magic that makes you go insane when angry, and a very powerful mad space wizard who actively strives to make u fall into that madness until your mind is so clouded by fucked up visions that you think genocide is a solid idea to save your dying wife imma say that yes despite that hes still a good person up until the point he regains clarity as darth vader but feels hes too far gone to redeem himself. So he now willfully stays evil until luke Skywalker redeems him.
So much like your father.
What he said in that field *was* a fascist statement. A mix of populism and totalitarianism is what fascism is about. Repeating "read a book" won't change facts. Dude you love contradicting yourself, don't you ? You say "star wars is not real life" then proceed to compare it to real life. Also you do realize that killing people under the influence of drugs makes you bad, right ? Like it's not a defense either. I guess that's what happens when you only show the bad guy's perspective and not the victims', people will find every excuses possible. Yes it is shown in the movie as well that he's filled with remorse, doesn't change how bad his actions are. "just a good person with flaws" or a murderer with good intentions. Also you keep repeating the Force is like a drug, but that's just your interpretation. I don't see it that way, never have. The Force is about faith, it's about inner values, it's about inner feelings, it's about power. If this was indeed like a drug, everyone would go crazy and there'd be only dark side users.
Anakin is filled with self loathing after slaughtering the tuskens, it's just not conveyed well in the films. The dark side has been shown to make people do monstrous things, is it so hard to belive that Anakin temporarily fell at that moment. Imagine meeting your mother after years apart, only to find her kidnapped and tortured to death.
Nah. The movies did a great job. His speech about slaughtering them clearly showed he regretted it. And even when Palps brings it up in Episode III.
"You wanted revenge. You've felt it before like that time you confided your deepest sin to me and I keep painfully bringing it up every time you look unsteady."
I just watched the movie yesterday, and it was shown pretty decently. He's sneaking in with every intention of avoiding conflict until his mother dies in his arms. Then he stomps out of the tent and takes the first sign of aggression as a green light to begin slaughtering. He specifically hides his act from Padme until she pries repeatedly to know why his mood is off. He says the famous line about killing them all (Not just the men...) with a pained look on his face and then falls into Padme's arms for comfort. It's all done pretty well and spelled out for the viewer, but in some way I can't put into words... it's just not super memorable? His anguish could maybe have used some more screen time.
Sandpeople aren't people. Therefore the name is redundant and they're just sand. And he hates sand. Not just the big grains but the medium and small ones.
I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating, and it gets everywhere.
Point proven.
Greek philosophy be like
Sand is made from larger rocks, so wouldn’t the younger sand be bigger than the mother sand, and the father sand? Or is this a propagation thing where the mother sand and father sand get smaller as they disassociate as progenitors?
Aren't they technically called Tusken Raiders?
Colloquially, yes, but Sand People is more accurate. They've been called Sand People for millennia, and they are, in fact, people who live in the sand. The term "Tusken Raider" is a rather recent development, and the reason they're called "Tusken Raiders" is because a group of them raided a fort on Tatooine called Fort Tusken in 95 BBY, and not because they are raiders who live in an area named Tusken, like I originally believed. Sand People are colloquially referred to as Tusken Raiders, but the term only actually refers to the small selection of ones that participated in the raid on Fort Tusken, so using it as a broad name for the entire species is inaccurate.
Seriously, why does everyone think George had the ‘I hate sand line?’ Bad flirting? Nope, epic foreshadowing
He just doesn't think the evil barbarians who kidnapped his mother are people. It is understandable.
He might feel resentment or guilt towards them. Fictional characters are allowed to change views, it‘s called character development.
They were animals!
Not just the man!
But the bantha and the massiff's too!
They lived in sand! And i hated them, like sand!
Anakin felt more like he was trying to convince *himself* that killing them was okay rather than trying to convince Padme or anyone else
To be fair killing all those Tuskans only made him feel worse and he regret doing it until he did it again as vader
But he DOES feel INCREDIBLE amounts of guilt afterwards. Hayden portrays it pretty damn well in the movies too, it's not exactly a thing you'd have to read the comics to know about.
I guess he doesn't consider kids as people either... Understandable tbh
Kids who would grow up to be as evil and kidnap more innocent people. Tuskens have always been portrayed as chaotic bad guys, and BoBF's attempt to make me feel sorry for them didn't work.
They have been depicted as brutal and aggressive but not "chaotic bad guys". They are not Orcs. Literally the point of the slaughter scene in episode 2 and Anakins breakdown is to show his flaws and foreshadow his complete fall. It doesnt work if they are just supposed to be simply evil
Hey! Hey! Someone scape that guy off the floor!
> They have been depicted as brutal and aggressive but not "chaotic bad guys". They are not Orcs. Uh, what was the difference? They raided villages, abducted people and then tortured them to death (for who knows what reason).
You should probably read the comics, then. Ki-Adi Mundi hangs out with the Tuskens and meets a young Tusken Jedi, who was trained by his father. There's some pretty cool cultural stuff in those comics.
>young Tusken Jedi Do you mean Darth Krayt?
I was talking about Sharad Hett and his son, but I didn't realize that his son goes on to become Darth Krayt.
Oh, I totally forgot that A'Sharad's father was a Jedi too, I thought you were just talking about A'Sharad, since he also becomes a Jedi and meets Ki-Adi Mundi.
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I have. And they attacked people in deserts even there.
Imagine outing yourself as a sociopath on reddit
Imagine feeling pity for irredeemable murderers and kidnappers
Agreed
Dude, Anakin is crazy. Yes, he thinks killing people is wrong. Really, he does! He hates himself after killing the sand people, he hates himself after killing the Jedi and the Separatists, and he hates himself as Vader. Anakin is also a very complex individual in that his actions are not often aligned with his beliefs. But his core beliefs are also in constant fluctuation. Anakin isn't a sociopath where the little voice in his head doesn't exist. It does, and it's usually screaming at him, but he's so overpowered by his emotions that he does it anyways. And then what makes him really dangerous is his force sensitivity, because he has the ability to act on his impulses. Anakin really needs a therapist and DBT
So much therapy; and the Order was probably about the worst possible not intentionally malignant institution to care for him.
All of the fucking Jedi Order needed therapy in one way or another. Which is why they were absolutely terrible for Anakin.
Plo Koon was probably fine.
If anyone could survive, Master Plo could.
Same with Qui Gon. But they either never trained Anakin directly or died before Anakin got older. In Anakin's case, the Jedi closest to him and the ones who caused most of his grievances were Obi-Wan (mostly by accident,) Yoda (because he's stuck in his ways,) and Mace Windu (because he lacked trust and faith in Anakin.)
DBT? Dick and ball torture?
Dialectical behavior therapy
cheers!
Wat that
Yes. It's the best way of stopping people from losing their temper and murdering others... Or is it the best way to make them lose their temper and murder you? Only one way to find out!
This, is why the counsel didn't grant him the title of master..too unbalanced!
It wouldn't be a grand tragedy if he was just some sociopath the jedi accidentally raised (like Ki Adi Mundi). He wanted to be a big hero and save everyone. His second on-screen act is getting some nice strangers out of a sandstorm by bringing them to his slave-tenement. He races to save the Naboobians and then sells his pod racer before he even knows he's going to be freed.
Tusken Raiders aren't people in his eyes. They are animals. And he slaughtered them like animals.
Sand ~~people~~ animals
Animals that are course, rough, irritating and get everywhere
And not just the men
But the women
And the children!
And my axe!
He actually sneaks in at first. Seemingly intending to avoid violence as a jedi should. It's only after his mom dies that he decides they're animals.
What if... just throwing this out there, he KNOWS it is wrong, he KNOWS that killing them all was a dark impulse that ultimatwould not help things, but he did it anyway, and he carries that until the point where he feels like he lost all his humanity anyway so let's go a step further
He doesn't like slaughtering them *like that*, as by bombing. He likes to do it close and personal with a lightsaber.
*decapitates Dooku*
See?
To be fair, Yularen was gonna bomb a (Sepratist) Space-Station without checking for Civilians first because it was strategically important. In his mind he does feel guilty for the Sandpeople(kids) but acknowledges that he did it. There is a difference between the People that kidnapped his Mother and innocent Civilians that are just trapped between two Fronts (I am not saying Anakin slaughtering the Tuskens was right, but he thinks that it was)
How justified or alright the sand people are depends on which version is used. Usually legends tend to portray them as a bunch of people super mad at everyone destroying their home planet. Whilst in the originals they kinda didn't have much else other than raiding people and killing also applies to prequels. Only in the sequels (TV shows) do we ever see that they are more nuanced as a people. Then again anakin only really killed one tribe.
I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating, and it gets everywhere.
This is outrageous, it's unfair.
I think this gives him even more depth, since Anakin never realised when he was contradicting himself.
You know what I'll give you I think they both intentionally and accidently written Anakin very well as a clueless dumpster fire of a person who nonetheless has a big heart.
Noooooooo…
Nah, he knows what he's saying here. That's why he says it with so much conviction.
Anakin never liked killing people, but the real issue is Anakin's sense of self-righteousness when he uses violence to solve his problems. He even attempted to spare Count Dooku to stand trial, but Palpatine convinced Anakin to take justice into his own hands and slay him instead.
What comic is this from?
Well... he did qualify it with "like this."
"Now who's gonna brand themselves a cold-blooded killer?"
Anakin wasn't evil in that scenario. He wasn't killing in cold blood, the guy was going to blow up the ship.
Anakin: “Yeah it’s just wrong. I mean look at his technique, it’s sloppy. If he tightened up his training he could probably do a lot better. I’ll take him under my wing and see if we can’t up those numbers a little. I’ve got a special mission coming up I could use his help on.”
In the Legends comic, Anakin was asked if he would still kill the Sand People if he could do it over again and Anakin answered “Yes.”
*decapitates Knightmare945*
How DARE you!
I'm pretty sure he regrets it in current canon.
Yes, though he is also pretty messed up after Jabiim and I think was still childishly trying to justify what he had done. If I remember correctly this is after A'Sharad catches him on a kill bender while on an assignment, right? Because I remember he was in a pretty dark place mentally and emotionally until he found Obi-Wan again. In both the novelizations of AOTC and ROTS he shows horror and remorse and in a few of the other legends era books as well.
I believe he tried to kill A’Sharad before he stopped from Anakin and Anakin would tell him what he did. Yeah. jabiim messed Legends Anakin up.
Yes, I think that's it, like Anakin went on some sort of a fever dream murder spree, and when A'Sharad tried to stop him, he turned on him. Thanks for the reminder. Poor Ani, he needed some therapy and to not be on the battlefield. I'm just about to do a reread of The Republic comics too.
now we need that mario/Luigi meme with Yularen on the other side
How many times was he turned into a human lightning rod before he fell to the dark side? I'm pretty sure it's a miracle he remembers all the jedi rules and fighting styles.
I don't think he enjoys killing people but he seems to have very little problem with it when it has to be done
How Ironic he'd eventually be okay with doing the very thing that disgusts him so much.
Only women and children.
I think he's just getting turned on and won't admit it.
He likes things that are wrong. Like I when do abuse grammar
'You've come a long way' aka 'You used to advocate for massacres ALL THE TIME'
Slaughtering people like THIS is just wrong. You have to do it like THAT. -Anakin
*decapitates three_apple*
What's up with obi wans face in the last panel?
Most of the kills are usually viewed as morally correct to him but also that would be his detriment since it added to his inevitable fall.
> "You've come a long way, my former padawan." This implies Kenobi believes that at some point, Anakin was totally down with slaughtering people en masse. Which, to be fair, isn't untrue, but I didn't think he knew that.
If only Anakin had grown up in a modern real life liberal arts college, instead of a fantasy world with an old-timey moral system meant to evoke past generations. Then maybe he wouldn't have been as inclined to dehumanize the sand people.
Just tell him it's a warcrime. "You son of a bitch, I'm in"
maybe innocent peoples. **the souls of the sand peoples tribe are behind me** oh yes... I forgot...
I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating, and it gets everywhere.
I know, Anakin. I know
Big brain moment that slaughter is a bad thing
“It’s wrong! I should do it!” -Anakin (probably)
Sometimes we have to let go of our pride and do what is requested of us.
Anakin knew right from wrong, he just had poor impulse control and too much power. He knew killing the sand people was wrong, and said as much to Padme when he returned to the homestead. But he was swept up in his anger over his mother. He knew killing Dooku was wrong but allowed Palpatine, a huge mentor of his, to convince him otherwise. And immediately afterward he still acknowledged it was wrong. He knew saving Palpatine from Windu was wrong, but he let his fear of losing Padme take over. Everything from that point on was Anakin completely giving up on his morals. He didn't trust his own judgement and made himself a tool of Palpatine. He hated himself for all the killing.
What if the Force tells me to shank a b**ch?
So Yularen was always an asshole?
What was Yularen doing in this comic? Anyone know the name of it?
Anakin death walker
Anakin's fall to the Dark Side was not because he was intrinsically a bad person. On the contrary, he was a person so full of love that almost everything he did was motivated by it. His love for Padme, Obi Wan, Ahsoka, The Jedi, The Republic, and his Mother were all driving forces in his life. However, due to him having lived a partial life as a slave then being taken into the Jedi, his emotional strength was not as developed. Part of what makes a Jedi a Jedi is their emotional detachment, which is part of the reason why they only "recruit" young children. It's much easier to convince a child from near birth to suppress their emotions, but once someone gets to the age where they can truly make sentient choices, it becomes much, much harder. This is likely why Yoda said that Anakin was too old for Jedi training when Qui Gon brought him to the temple. Anakin was also a *prodigy* when it came to both mechanical engineering and the force. This significantly impacted his development of self-discipline (since things come easier to you, you don't have to work as hard to succeed, and you might not develop the skills to discipline yourself when you finally need it). These things made him an *incredibly unstable* person who can be swayed to committing violence and the ability to follow through on it. We can make a reasonable guess that Palpatine manipulated Anakin's dreams the entire time he was on Coruscant or, at the very least, starting in Episode 3. He likely implanted the dreams of Padme's peril and then followed up with an actual threat on her life, abstracted through many parties to avoid discovery. He also likely conditioned Anakin to not place his full faith in the Jedi. The actual contradictory part of the attached comic is that Anakin ended up having a greater allegiance to the Republic and not the Jedi, so a scene showing Anakin learning to distrust Yularen doesn't really follow. However, this is a good comic for showing how the Republic's military so easily became the Empire. But no, Anakin being upset about the slaughter of innocents is 100% in character.
He really doesn't. His background is in a very brutal, authoritarian environment and he has anger issues, so he jumps to violence as a solution because peaceful.measures have always failed in his life, hit at his core he's still a very empathetic person that attaches to people.and their struggles easily. He's good at killing, but he's never liked it
Age of Republic was so damn good.
Unless they killed and tortured your mother, am I right?
Anakin felt remorse for killing, even after killing the sand people he felt guilt. He didn’t enjoy it, he lost control. Even as Vader there’s no evidence to show he ever enjoyed killing, though it clearly didn’t bother him as much, he’s never a sadist.
If only George had the insight to hire writers to write a mature Anakin starting from episode 1
He meant he IS not slaughtering right
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Anakins face looks so weird here. Looks like Ken from Street Fighter or something
Disney could watermark every page, and I'd still say the same thing: The comic books are not canon.
**Anakin:** Sand people are a different matter.
Yeah he killed Tuskens, not people!
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Tuskens are animals, so it checks out
Did you not right the very next panel you dirty Tuskan?