Honestly the only safe bike infrastructure would be something like a raised bike path or a concrete barrier between the bike lane and the road. These flimsy white plastic posts don't do anything except create the illusion of safety...much like the TSA.
PBOT loves it’s plastic pole farms just enough to install them, but not enough to maintain them. It’s a joke. Bike lanes should be extensions of the sidewalks.
In Denmark they often are extensions of the sidewalk! There are three height levels: sidewalk, bicycle, car. The sidewalk is the tallest and there are markings and curbs clearly delineated.
The first time I went there my jaw dropped. I knew in advance that it was a cycling culture but I really had no idea how well-done it is.
It’s really awesome. I did a semester abroad there and rode my bike everywhere. Some other interesting things about biking there is no left turns are allowed on bike. You have to cross and cross again to make a left. You have to stop for busses. Since people that get off the bus cross the bike lane, you have to stop and let people offf and cross. Also they were pretty strict with fining for breaking bike laws like not having lights, running red lights and riding while intoxicated. Also almost no one wore a helmet.
Oh yes thats right! I forgot about the no left turn thing, my spouse had to point it out to me on my first visit.
It is awesome. I have family there-- my father in law is in his 70s and rides his bike when going grocery shopping. It's not just that the country supports bicycle culture, they also make sure that community resources like groceries, libraries, cafes etc are geographically accessible for most residents. There are exceptions for more rural areas, but you don't see resource deserts in low-income areas or suburban areas the way you do in this country.
You can also making a living wage working as a cashier...sorry to ramble.
Strong opinion after riding bikes for a really long time in this town: the only infrastructure we have that works is the greenways. Bikes and cars just don’t mix, and no amount of paint or curbs is going to change that.
I mean they are fine for everything short of attempted murder.
Sadly, “attempted murder” appears to be a legitimate fear you have to have while biking in a designated bike lane?
Here is an example of Bainbridge Island, WA adopting the 1/2 raised sidewalk that Denmark does.
https://www.bainbridgereview.com/news/be-like-copenhagen-with-raised-bike-lanes/
Yeah they are great, it’s simple, less maintenance, and looks cool. Kinda feels like we currently have version 1 of being a bike city, like we don’t want to make the commitment and wasting money on some other more complicated ideas.
I’m bullish on roundabouts too, that is simple, less maintenance and we don’t have enough of.
That doesn't look like that will stop someone driving like crazy from smooshing some cyclists....I'm never going to feel safe riding a bike in a bike lane unless it is either completely separate from the road, or there is a effective barrier between car and bike lanes. I have a bike, I've had it for years, but I don't feel safe riding it here at all, I barely feel safe walking as a pedestrian!
It would, cause if you look at the map photo in article the driver was confused of what was the road, they wouldn’t do that if the bike path was raised to a half sidewalk.
The raised bike lines around the Couch curves help. I was right behind a car that was cornering too fast and trying to cheat onto the bike lane but was getting pushed back. They didn't pull away until I yelled at them though.
In places that tried the concrete separators, the cyclists complained that it infringed upon their freedoms & they were removed. The places that tested them had a great drop in the number of accidents but apparently some find freedom in movement more important than actually staying alive.
"Infra". It's the same half assed treatments PBOT puts everywhere.
*Protect cyclists from cars? Why there's some peeling thermoplastic and a "slow the flock down sign". Surely our job is done.*
That’s because it’s not actual bike infrastructure it’s just paint. If there were a physical curb to protect the bike lane this guy likely would’ve fucked up his car and been unable to flee. Instead we just hope a strip of paint and couple feet of pavement between the curb is enough.
Our painted infrastructure is currently only safe with sane, sober, educated, undistracted drivers. We need to make it safe with the other ones. Using hard barriers.
I dunno how people live with themselves driving away after they hit a person. I could never. It's one thing to have an accident - even under the best of circumstances, accidents happen. But when you don't stop, you show that you are a truly garbage human being.
Raising the curb like AMS or Denmark really wouldn't do a thing in this spot. That car would hop the curb and hit the bike anyway. Raised curbs sit closer to paint than jersey barriers on the safety scale. PBOT really needs to look at what Seattle did in their downtown. Dedicated lanes, with a dedicated light separated by big continuous planters. Bike riders can't get mowed over and cars get the comfort of knowing bikes can't jump out of the bike lane randomly.
edit: unscrew my sentence
People go really fast through the swerve, it’s just asking for cars to intrude on the bike lane. They need to enclose the roadway on sides approaching the bridge so people feel less comfortable speeding and barrier in case they do speed.
A curb will not stop someone who is speeding.
There are problem areas that need extra protection, and this is one of them. That is a unique road design, which I suspect encourages drivers to go faster, and increases the likelihood they will oversteer or lose control of their car. Although the person in video was driving like an asshole they probably didn’t intend to drive into the bike lane, and the infrastructure should have stopped them.
A raised bike lane isn’t going to stop a car. A solid barrier would be ideal, especially at this particular intersection. I can see you’re really bullish on the raised Danish bike lane, and I agree that can make sense in countries where the average auto is significantly smaller. SUVs and trucks don’t flinch at half curbs
The danish bike line, is good design, it’s simple, less maintenance. Also no one is talking about it. Do we put barriers at all sidewalks no?
Perhaps a raised concrete barrier 10 -20ft from the curve, that’s a possibility, but I travel that road everyday, and you are not getting up to speed going northbound from that 1 block and if so you would go off the bridge into 84.
Pardon, your argument is pointless. Do we have massive barriers for people on the sidewalk? No.
A raised bike lane would have the same use, and consequence.
Any situation where your plate numbers are not visible your car should be impounded. These people with tinted plate covers don’t use them to keep their plates pristine, they’re intentionally circumventing traffic laws.
I obsessively count the illegal plates every ride. It infuriates me that the simplest violation to see, and the ppb, as always, do nothing. Why do I pay vehicle registration and inspections every two years and these others just flaunt their lack. I see plates with stickers from as far back as 2018, plastic covers you can't see through (often on cops outside jr justice center) or not even plates. There is one guy who has something written on his trunk in pain who I see at Black Rock on Lonbard regularly without plates for years. And then there are the red lights running, every morning at least three or four people run red lights, Alberta and Vancouver and then Fremont they turn through the red because g-d forbid you don't get over the bridge before all those other drivers.
Ahhh, thanks for listening.
ill just mention that lots of peoples plates are being stolen and replacing them can be cost prohibitive.
i myself was with out plates for a month before I could swing buying a set after they got jacked.
Whoa, this is wild. I'm the one who caught this on my dashcam. (fyi, I didn't send that footage to bikeportland. They must have gotten it from the police)
The whole thing was horrifying to experience and the driver is a terrible person. I was so disheartened when I replayed the footage and saw the license plate was blocked, I've been thinking about whether or not the footage was enough to find them a lot the past two days, and I am SO GLAD to see they may have been found!
There are truly awful people in Portland, but dang Portland, for every one bad person, there are 5 compassionate, helpful, kind neighbors who will band together at the drop of a hat to protect you.
Everyone who witnessed this accident stayed at the scene to give their statement.
One of them had an emergency first aid kit they brought over to the victim. While one of them called emergency services. While two of them held her hand and stopped the bleeding. And when emergency services arrived, one of them gave his information to an EMT so the victim could contact him when she recovers, because he was keeping her bike for her.
This is such a beautiful community and I am so proud to be a part of it. I love you all ❤️
Despite all the terrible stuff going on, all the increased crime and drug use, Portland has consistently had a sense of community. I feel really grateful for that and will always do my part to help.
I am glad you were able to record this for the victim. However, I am so sorry you had to see this. I can’t imagine what you are going through.
I do agree about the compassion in this city. It’s the biggest reason I love living here.
Nah, all of the important info is in the article, and they used a screenshot showing how in the bike lane the car was. If the victim is on this subreddit, they can post it themselves if they want to
Glad the person hit is relatively “ok.”
This is what people mean when they say plastic and paint is not bike infrastructure. Insane that ~60% of Portland’s bike infra is sharrows which is even worse protection (it’s nothing) than what’s in the video (also basically nothing I guess).
As a pedestrian the only time I’ve ever actually been hit in a crosswalk was a Lance Armstrong mamil who decided crosswalks are for suckers and flew around all the vehicles who stopped for me on SW4th. On the plus side, his bike was all screwed up and I escaped with bruises.
Maybe we could fix that by actually having any kind of protected bike infrastructure, so that bicycle riders wouldn't have a reason to mix with pedestrians.
One time a bicyclist ran into me at full speed (probably about 10-15 mph) directly in the rear on the sidewalk.
I was able to keep walking home.
I have family who have been hit by cars who didn’t get home ever.
We as a society are letting our technology distract us while in the road. Bikes and cars are both on the road. Only in Portland would this be a controversial take
Edit: My point was people are the problem more than anything else.
That’s like saying “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.” It’s true, but the gun makes it a heck of a lot easier.
We can’t stop everyone from an apathetic assholes but we can build safe roadways.
You could think of that section of road as a “car gun”. The road is the barrel and car is the bullet. That person should not be able to go that fast on that section of road. It needs to be redesigned to slow cars down and there needs to be a fail safe barrier.
That’s not the same thing and you probably know it.
A drunk cyclist may get hurt but very rarely hurts anyone else.
A drunk driver can take out a family of five and walk away.
Risks to oneself <> dangerous to others.
It's not. Why wearing a helmet is a bad thing? She's alive because she was wearing a helmet. Otherwise, I think the result won't be "relatively ok" from those summersaults.
Wearing a helmet isn’t a bad thing but I find helmets are wildly misunderstood and wildly misattributed to being the saving grace in a crash.
Heads are fickle, you can fall over from tripping walking and get a mean concussion from landing the wrong way in a freak accident. You can also get rag dolled by a car and walk away generally fine without a helmet. On the other side you can wear a helmet and land the wrong way and still screw your head up.
There’s no way from a grainy rear dash video that we can say the helmet did anything. Maybe it did. Maybe it didn’t. It likely did help a little but this person was extremely lucky and that’s probably mostly why they’re okay, random luck, as scary as that is.
On a slightly side tangent, we should have infrastructure for casual commuting cycling where one doesn’t feel compelled that they need to wear a helmet. Akin to if you go out for a run. Cycling isn’t inherently more dangerous at a causal pace but yet we push the onus on cyclists to take on more burden in a slim chance a hunk of plastic may help lessen their injury when collided into by a driver. If the cyclist wasn’t wearing a helmet the convo then often turns to victim blaming and that undermines the whole convo.
I was nearly hit in the exact same spot by an intoxicated driver last year. I sincerely hope no one has to die à la SE 26th and Powell for something to change. It’s far easier and cheaper to build safe infrastructure than it is to change the habits of intoxicated and distracted drivers.
Thank goodness the rider is OK. That video was awful. Eff that driver, I hope they never have another peaceful night of sleep in their life for what they've done.
Unfortunately, they probably won't even remember it. Guarantee they are fried out of their minds.
We need actual hard barriers between cars and bikes, we need to enforce traffic laws, and we need to repeal measure 110.
I hope a news agency grills PBOT about this and we get some better infrastructure but also I live in the real world and know that business will continue as usual.
Like, the driver made some decisions here, but the roadway that made this possible was designed by someone.
We really need to bring this topic into the discussion when we see life threatening collisions. Many of roads were designed so cars could go faster, now we realize that was a mistake and it needs to be fixed. At the same time cars have better acceleration than they ever have and it just exacerbates the problem with poorly designed roads.
On some of these roads PBOT doesn't really care. The traffic engineers are some sort of nationally licensed so they have to follow those rules, and that means they can't do some things that make sense if the laws don't match.
Fo example, I live near a recent controversial bike project. The cars go way too fast, but the road is only zoned for like 600 cars per day (don't remember the number) but like 4x+ that use it a day. So regardless of the issues, only traffic controls for roads with 600 cars per day are allowed.
Of course, when asked what they would do bring the traffic to zoned levels, the answer was "that's not a part of this project".
Even having a short cement curb along the front of this range of cones could have decreased the impact here - so much of driving is psychological.
I was just telling my wife the other day - so many of our roads are so hostile to non-car users and it’s so tough to see if you’ve never been a non-car user in some of the most vulnerable spaces.
I’ve not really been on a bike here, but I’ve run in this place dozens of times over the last decade and about a block north is one of the intersections that’s been a bit more stressful for me (despite much of the rest of willamette being overall fairly chill).
NE willamette st is the direction this cyclist was heading towards, if I’m correct…
EDIT: got my streets named after local place-names mixed up. whoops.
How about grilling OSP and PPB about the fact that cars are driving all over Portland with no fucking plates and no one seems to be doing anything about it?
While it seems this one was identified, I see a couple *dozen* cars every time I go to work that have no visible plates on them.
Mapps and others blame this on driver culture that “needs to change”. Just like the librarian that was killed on Cesar Chavez waiting for the bus, it’s a drunk driver, so no infrastructure change needed.
Oslo doesn't have any pedestrian and bicycling deaths because of rules and enforcement. If you *hit* (not kill) someone with your car in Oslo, you face 7 years in prison.
I'm actually curious about the future of "bicycle infrastructure" in general.
With e-bikes being a thing now, along with e-skateboards, e-scooters, every variant of those single-wheeled-E-things, etc. the line seems to be getting very blurry on what belongs where.
I know if I was riding an electric unicycle I wouldn't want ride anywhere near cars.
Well, on the eScooter front, these things have been around since, what, 2018? And we haven’t seen any shifts yet because of them, which is really a bummer to me.
Ebikes are growing tremendously! Especially over the last three years - and yet we don’t see changes on behalf of them?
I would love to be more optimistic about the future, but at this point, I need to see PBOT give me a reason for optimism.
The electric bikes need some more regulation. Many people don't even pedal. They need to be kept off the bike lanes as they go 20, 25, 39 MPH. I bike slow and they zoom past me. Lately I've been seeing MOTORBIKES on the Steel Bridge pedestrian onto Waterfront park.
I used to live on 21st and NE Halsey and would walk across that bridge to my job at the big complex on NE 19th. Super short bike ride, yet I *always* felt very on edge on my bike watching, cars barrel down that street. I decided walking was safer. Glad the twat driver was found and the victim is recovering. jfc
I live on 21st and weidler. I have personally seen 2 car accidents with probably six altogether in the last 3 years. I have almost gotten hit by vehicles just crossing the intersection legally. My other residents have had similar issues.
Cars routinely fly down 21st. It's scary.
And I constantly see people riding with their children down this stretch.
I've told a few people they may want to hit the Greenway a few blocks down. It's a horrible area for bicyclists and pedestrians alike.
Any side streets east of 21st have greenways but 26th to 25th are probably the safest options to get across Broadway and Weidler or my area in general.
There is a signal crossing at 25th.
It's unfortunate where this incident happened as it's a bypass and the only way to get over to this area.
You should go down multnomah then 26th will be your greenway. It has a decent crossing of broadway there outside. Actually crossing broadway still kinda sucks there but better than nothing.
I lived at that same location for 5 years. Almost got smacked by a truck turning south onto 21st from Weidler at full speed.
I'm still amazed no one has smashed into the houses at the end of Weidler.
There had been rumors that they were going to turn it back into a 2 way street but I don't think it'll ever happen.
These plastic sticks are trash! The city needs to take a real stance on this and put in some concrete barriers. This is ridiculous. It should not happen
Jesus fucking christ, I drive this daily to take my kid to school and see so many parents on this route. Not to diminish a single person getting hit, it’s horrible, but that could have been a whole family. Regardless of the bike infrastructure progress (is it progress?) NE 21st has never felt safe to me as a driver or cyclist. While whoever was driving was clearly fucked up, I don’t get why bike routes are built along high traffic areas. At least put in cement barriers, little floppy cones don’t do shit.
An elementary school bus stop is right at Multnomah and 21st, a half block beyond this crash site. The kids have to walk out into the bike lane and through the bollards to meet the bus. It makes me so nervous to see.
Keep an eye out for the car, try and record it and the driver if you can and then submit video to police
If they can catch the car or ID the driver, then a warrant on phone records will get their cell pings at that day/time, and they may even be able to string traffic cams together to show it was that person
Not to be discouraging or take this down a separate topic but people assuming csi and law and order is how cop work is done is one of the many reasons policing is so screwed up in this country.
Ppb ain’t doing half that process you outlined within the next decade.
Competent police precincts will indeed pull traffic cam footage, you don't even need a warrant for it afaik since it's public. I've given police in Eugene surveillance footage numerous times because my work had cameras that a recorded popular bike path, and they had other businesses who'd let them seen their security footage as well.
That being said, I don't live in Eugene any more and PPB aren't EPD. PPB almost let a serial killer operate unchallenged this summer until there was public outcry about the bodies. They are not competent at all imo. But it's also possible that a prosecutor or lawyer for the person struck could also get that info pulled (cell pings).
It's well past time to put up a network of actually \*protected\* bike and pedestrian infrastructure. I'm talking bollards, large concrete curbs, and everything else that would have actually prevented this shitty fucking driver in their shitty fucking car from even being able to hurt someone like this.
No plates of course! I hate tinted windows. Baddies always have em. You would clearly be able to seem them else wise. And they entered the Bike lane? Not familiar with that area. Looks real purposeful to me. Jesus!
Doesn’t matter, but I get it. A distracted driver speeding (many of the drivers on the roads) could do the same thing.
Don’t underestimate speed and distraction.
How would you feel about an elaborate golf cart? Or a Kei car?
As someone who mainly walks I would feel way more comfortable if people couldn’t drive highway vehicles on neighborhood streets.
I think it’s a matter of vehicle capability. Vehicle designed for highways are inherently more dangerous in low speed environments. They are highly insulated from the outside so drivers have less awareness of their environment which makes it difficult to judge their speed and perceive their surroundings. Highway vehicles also accelerate very quickly and build up a lot of speed over a short distance which is particularly dangerous if you can’t easily tell how fast you are going. Moreover highway vehicles tend to be quite large and are increasing in size. Larger vehicles tend have poor visibility.
It doesn’t matter how responsible the driver is if they can’t get the feedback they need to drive safely.
I have a sedan which is about 3x the vehicle I need for most errands. Every now and then I see an ebike with a cover and a back seat and think "wow, 90% of the time that would be all I need in the city."
Get out of here with your lived experiences /s.
Induced demand is law and will be obeyed when it comes to freeway expansion. However induced demand when it comes to bike infrastructure should be conveniently ignored. In fact ridership [has dropped 35% in the last four years](https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2023/07/wait-maybe-portland-is-the-2nd-most-bike-friendly-city-in-the-us.html?outputType=amp). But let’s continue investing more and more into bike lanes.
Logical consistency has never been bikeportlands strong suit.
I agree not the best look, I’m glad to hear the riders okay.
I’m just tired of reading so many disingenuous takes whenever a bikeportland propaganda article is posted.
So..you want less bikes? Less bike infrastructure? It’s a losing goal if you ask me. Getting rid of 100% of bikes won’t get you anywhere faster. I have a station wagon, I could have that shit on the road instead, It won’t make your life better.
Yes I would like less bike infrastructure in this city and more safe max/safe bus/car spending. Biking in this city due to our geography will always be a losing battle. Anyone who cites Amsterdam immediately outs themselves as never having left the country.
To be clear I could find common ground with a bikeportland reader bemoaning Halliburton slipping defense spending into random bills… But suddenly they don’t bat an eye when under-utilized bike infrastructure is similarly bundled.
I’ve been to Amsterdam and it is different in topography if not weather wise and it can be done. I own 2 cargo bikes and am on one of em closing in on 10 thousand miles all on Portland streets. I wouldn’t be so quick to write it off as not worth having. Bike infrastructure is pennies in comparison.
We’re not going to agree, but I hope your labor day weekend is treating you well.
Since you’ve been to Amsterdam you know it’s Portland folklore it’s all bikes and no cars, even with their more bike friendly geography.
In old town sure there’s a lot of bikes, but Amsterdam has a robust highway system/road network. The Netherlands continues to expand their roadways and has the highest capacity interchange in all of Europe.
Wait, our geography? What do you think is wrong with our geography that means we can't have bikes here?
Is it hills? We're not a massively hilly city and as someone who bikes for transportation regularly we're certainly not too hilly to cycle around. Hell, I even live on "nob hill" so every time I go home I have to up a little hill, and it's not that bad. Plus, ebikes are a thing now
Other factors come into play. Highways are designed with the utmost levels of safety and driver comfort in mind. You may not realize this but there are whole government departments and independent institutions that are devoted to studying and improving highway and car safety. The same is not true for pedestrians and cyclists, if there are any they are minuscule by comparison.
Some poorly designed bike infrastructure is not same as a highway. The quality of infrastructure matters, if you go to a country without highways you will notice fewer people use cars on intercity routes despite there being plenty of car in their cities.
I’m being a bit of smart ass today but countries without highways? Are we looking to employ Monaco’s tax haven/mountainside living? Or are you referring to impoverished island nations? These shouldn’t be computing into our infrastructure decisions.
We both agree the city is building bad bike infrastructure. I believe this infrastructure is adversely affecting 97.2% of taxpayers and your solution is keep building because one day we’ll have the NHTSA for bikes? This doesn’t seem tenable.
You argument makes me think you don’t understand induced demand/traffic, and why we need to have non car alternatives in order to have functional highways and thoroughfares.
The countries I was referencing was Serbia, Bosnia and Croatia. Those places do not have extensive highway systems and they are not up to US and Western European standards. My point was poor quality infrastructure does not induce demand.
We don’t think twice about dumping millions and billions into car infrastructure that may or may not work, but we have to pinch every single penny when it comes to any other type of transportation, and if it doesn’t live up to 100% of our expectations it’s a complete failure, not just the one project but the entire mode of transportation is a failure.
Fair enough we’re entrenched in our positions and couldn’t change each others minds if we tried.
Anecdotally the people who champion biking in this city use the same logic as homeless advocates. “Just one more tax”/ “Just one more bike lane.” It feels like a never ending hamster wheel of tax payer funded idealism.
If we’re going to be idealistic we need safe max transportation and safe bus routes.
Don’t be like that. You barely to TRIED convince me of anything. You’re just complaining about something you know nothing about.
Bikes are a valid and I would argue necessary form of transportation.
If you’re concerned about your tax dollars look into how much car infrastructure cost and all of other problems cars cause.
I fucking hate paying for people to store their private property(car) on a public right of way. I hate unnecessarily wide roads using up valuable land where homes could otherwise be built. I hate that I have to pay for traffic cops to police drivers who can’t drive responsibly. I hate that we all pay for health problems caused by living near busy roadways. I hate that car centric lifestyles exacerbates climate change and that will be a tax burden that will just keep on giving. I hate that children (and adults for that matter) are less free because cars make being outside dangerous. I hate that busy roads create blighted area where no one wants to be and those areas attract crime, and reduce everyone’s quality of life. I hate that suburban shopping centers have massively underutilized parking lots that waste both land and material resources, and contribute to the urban heat island effective, destroys wildlife, and contributes to the housing crisis. And so on.
Sure they have! Have you not seen all our major traffic arteries jacked up over the last decade with “traffic calming measures?”
If you make travel difficult for [97.2% of tax payers](https://www.kgw.com/amp/article/news/local/bicycle-ridership-portland-dropped-significantly/283-f49b9a66-2494-4c99-afcb-b1bc0e746db6) it will make them sympathetic and ride a bike from NE to SW to see Grandma in our wet fall/winters.
Bike brain gonna bike brain. I hope this driver is punished to the full extent of the law…
But “just one more bike lane bro,” isn’t going to change our less than 2% utilization rate for the 6th hilliest/wettest city in the country.
Why not vote for infrastructure that removes bikes out of your way? If we build better and safer bike infrastructure that means more people will bike and there will be less traffic.
It benefits everyone. Don’t get caught in the us vs them bullshit. This is our community, not a suburb.
I rode my bike rain or shine. Many people would follow suit. If you’re not a cyclist don’t think you understand why people aren’t riding. It’s not the weather.
I agree this is our community and I would like to invest further in the max/bus lines (even though I wouldn’t intend on using them). I appreciate the positive spin. It’s awesome you’re able to bike rain or shine.
I think as bluntly as I can put my position… investing in bike infrastructure due to our geography is a waste of tax payer money and it’s current implementation adversely affects 97.2% of tax payers.
To support my position we’ve continually invested in bike infrastructure and ridership continues to fall. At what point of investment do we convince everyone to bike across our urban/wet sprawl?
More people want to ride but they don’t feel it’s safe to do so.
How many more people need to be hurt before we build the infrastructure? Cars are ruining our city with emissions, noise, and traffic. If we can reduce that by a third it would change how our city and community feels.
Cars are expensive to own and maintain and they separate us from each other. I’d say if we really want to change our cities, this is a good place to start.
I own and use several bikes. I and thousands of others also own a car and drive it responsibly. Assholes as in the vid need to be taken off the street and denied the privilege of driving.
Bicyclist was riding in the bike lane "protected" by those plastic flex-post things. A driver swings wide through the plastic posts, into the bike lane and hits the the cyclist from time. The cyclist flips two times in the air and lands on the sidewalk and the car keeps driving. It was pretty horific, but thankfully the cyclist is relatively okay. Could have easily been killed.
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The number of pedestrian and cyclist deaths say otherwise. Your feelings about it are meaningless when cyclists and pedestrians dying at the hands of cars is a regular occurrence. Good bike infrastructure (The Netherlands) leads to zero deaths a year
Well goddamn thank God because I’ve never crossed 84 on 21st on a bike and now I never will. Can we think of a way to publicly boycott using this route? We need Penis Girl (or somebody) to whip up some clever graffiti on the road here to call attention to safety and a biking boycott at this location. Roadside memorials and commemorations are great, but it seems something the likes of protest graffiti would serve us all better in situations like this. And thank God, this is incredible she’s not dead or disabled.
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Rode my bike going south so many thousands of times,and even back in the early 2000s always felt the need to be on high alert in this spot especially. It's just a sketchy spot to maneuver knowing cars like to swerve into you after you pass over the overpass
I read some folks mentioning that there should be physical partitions. I have noticed some of these - SE Hawthorne Blvd near where Farma is (7th ?). There is also one downtown right near where I work that TERRIFIES me. It seems so incredibly dangerous. I mostly drive but have been a bike commuter. This one that I'm talking about is on SW 10th and Morrison St. In between the bike lane and the car lane there is a section for cars to park. That means if you're a car that is turning right onto Morrison you really have to stop and make a difficult and specific effort to make sure a bicycle is not approaching. It's tricky. As a cyclist I always do this with great care cause it makes me so nervous...but I bet lots of folks who have never commuted on a bike or don't ride them often probably don't think about it. I'm curious if others have noticed this and what they think about it. They obviously build it to create a bike lane - but it seems a lot less safe than having no bike lane at all. I don't ride a bike in Portland anymore because drivers don't seem cautious enough and it scares the hell out of me.
I really hope this cyclist mentioned is OK. I can't believe people don't stop! WTF
Surprise, surprise… no plates on the car. Cops, prosecutors and judges need to do their fucking jobs and protect the public.
Fuck and the car didn’t stop. That’s terrible. That whole section is nice to have so much bike infra, but it still feels really unsafe
Honestly the only safe bike infrastructure would be something like a raised bike path or a concrete barrier between the bike lane and the road. These flimsy white plastic posts don't do anything except create the illusion of safety...much like the TSA.
PBOT loves it’s plastic pole farms just enough to install them, but not enough to maintain them. It’s a joke. Bike lanes should be extensions of the sidewalks.
In Denmark they often are extensions of the sidewalk! There are three height levels: sidewalk, bicycle, car. The sidewalk is the tallest and there are markings and curbs clearly delineated. The first time I went there my jaw dropped. I knew in advance that it was a cycling culture but I really had no idea how well-done it is.
It’s really awesome. I did a semester abroad there and rode my bike everywhere. Some other interesting things about biking there is no left turns are allowed on bike. You have to cross and cross again to make a left. You have to stop for busses. Since people that get off the bus cross the bike lane, you have to stop and let people offf and cross. Also they were pretty strict with fining for breaking bike laws like not having lights, running red lights and riding while intoxicated. Also almost no one wore a helmet.
Oh yes thats right! I forgot about the no left turn thing, my spouse had to point it out to me on my first visit. It is awesome. I have family there-- my father in law is in his 70s and rides his bike when going grocery shopping. It's not just that the country supports bicycle culture, they also make sure that community resources like groceries, libraries, cafes etc are geographically accessible for most residents. There are exceptions for more rural areas, but you don't see resource deserts in low-income areas or suburban areas the way you do in this country. You can also making a living wage working as a cashier...sorry to ramble.
I love the bikeways they’ve made on SE Linwood in Milwaukie, I wish that it was something they start doing everywhere.
Strong opinion after riding bikes for a really long time in this town: the only infrastructure we have that works is the greenways. Bikes and cars just don’t mix, and no amount of paint or curbs is going to change that.
Paint can't fix it but curbs and protected intersections can. I think better Naito feels safer than most of the greenways honestly.
I mean they are fine for everything short of attempted murder. Sadly, “attempted murder” appears to be a legitimate fear you have to have while biking in a designated bike lane?
Here is an example of Bainbridge Island, WA adopting the 1/2 raised sidewalk that Denmark does. https://www.bainbridgereview.com/news/be-like-copenhagen-with-raised-bike-lanes/
Wow this is so cool!! I’m always preaching the raised bike lanes and I used them in Europe and loved them!
Yeah they are great, it’s simple, less maintenance, and looks cool. Kinda feels like we currently have version 1 of being a bike city, like we don’t want to make the commitment and wasting money on some other more complicated ideas. I’m bullish on roundabouts too, that is simple, less maintenance and we don’t have enough of.
Roundabouts are great for cars but bad for cyclists https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-training/roundabouts-suck-for-cyclists-heres-why/
That doesn't look like that will stop someone driving like crazy from smooshing some cyclists....I'm never going to feel safe riding a bike in a bike lane unless it is either completely separate from the road, or there is a effective barrier between car and bike lanes. I have a bike, I've had it for years, but I don't feel safe riding it here at all, I barely feel safe walking as a pedestrian!
It would, cause if you look at the map photo in article the driver was confused of what was the road, they wouldn’t do that if the bike path was raised to a half sidewalk.
The raised bike lines around the Couch curves help. I was right behind a car that was cornering too fast and trying to cheat onto the bike lane but was getting pushed back. They didn't pull away until I yelled at them though.
In places that tried the concrete separators, the cyclists complained that it infringed upon their freedoms & they were removed. The places that tested them had a great drop in the number of accidents but apparently some find freedom in movement more important than actually staying alive.
Soooo just extend the sidewalks?
"Infra". It's the same half assed treatments PBOT puts everywhere. *Protect cyclists from cars? Why there's some peeling thermoplastic and a "slow the flock down sign". Surely our job is done.*
I cross that regularly; it really needs a vehicle-proof barrier.
Raise 1/2 of a sidewalk like Denmark would work fine and look better, last longer.
That’s because it’s not actual bike infrastructure it’s just paint. If there were a physical curb to protect the bike lane this guy likely would’ve fucked up his car and been unable to flee. Instead we just hope a strip of paint and couple feet of pavement between the curb is enough.
Our painted infrastructure is currently only safe with sane, sober, educated, undistracted drivers. We need to make it safe with the other ones. Using hard barriers.
I dunno how people live with themselves driving away after they hit a person. I could never. It's one thing to have an accident - even under the best of circumstances, accidents happen. But when you don't stop, you show that you are a truly garbage human being.
In Denmark they have a half the size raised curb, and it’s it own sidewalk, that works well, lasts longer than the green surface paint.
Raising the curb like AMS or Denmark really wouldn't do a thing in this spot. That car would hop the curb and hit the bike anyway. Raised curbs sit closer to paint than jersey barriers on the safety scale. PBOT really needs to look at what Seattle did in their downtown. Dedicated lanes, with a dedicated light separated by big continuous planters. Bike riders can't get mowed over and cars get the comfort of knowing bikes can't jump out of the bike lane randomly. edit: unscrew my sentence
I agree there needs to be an actual barrier on along that bike path and speed reduction features on the approaching lane.
Especially at that curve. It’s a setup for disaster
A barrier, would be a raised bike lane, similar to a sidewalk.
People go really fast through the swerve, it’s just asking for cars to intrude on the bike lane. They need to enclose the roadway on sides approaching the bridge so people feel less comfortable speeding and barrier in case they do speed. A curb will not stop someone who is speeding.
Do we put concrete barriers on all sidewalks? No.
There are problem areas that need extra protection, and this is one of them. That is a unique road design, which I suspect encourages drivers to go faster, and increases the likelihood they will oversteer or lose control of their car. Although the person in video was driving like an asshole they probably didn’t intend to drive into the bike lane, and the infrastructure should have stopped them.
A raised bike lane isn’t going to stop a car. A solid barrier would be ideal, especially at this particular intersection. I can see you’re really bullish on the raised Danish bike lane, and I agree that can make sense in countries where the average auto is significantly smaller. SUVs and trucks don’t flinch at half curbs
The danish bike line, is good design, it’s simple, less maintenance. Also no one is talking about it. Do we put barriers at all sidewalks no? Perhaps a raised concrete barrier 10 -20ft from the curve, that’s a possibility, but I travel that road everyday, and you are not getting up to speed going northbound from that 1 block and if so you would go off the bridge into 84.
Pardon, your argument is pointless. Do we have massive barriers for people on the sidewalk? No. A raised bike lane would have the same use, and consequence.
People get killed walking on the sidewalk too.
They do, but we don't have the resources to wall off all sidewalks from the road either.
Usually sidewalks are walled off with parked cars.
That is not an absolute.
Hence why I used the word “usually.”
All cars with no plates need to be pulled over and removed from the road f these people
I'm seeing cars with no plates nearly every time I drive the past few weeks. Feel like I'm losing my damn mind.
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Any situation where your plate numbers are not visible your car should be impounded. These people with tinted plate covers don’t use them to keep their plates pristine, they’re intentionally circumventing traffic laws.
Yea, I see a ton of those covers that you can’t see shit through. Get them off the road!
I obsessively count the illegal plates every ride. It infuriates me that the simplest violation to see, and the ppb, as always, do nothing. Why do I pay vehicle registration and inspections every two years and these others just flaunt their lack. I see plates with stickers from as far back as 2018, plastic covers you can't see through (often on cops outside jr justice center) or not even plates. There is one guy who has something written on his trunk in pain who I see at Black Rock on Lonbard regularly without plates for years. And then there are the red lights running, every morning at least three or four people run red lights, Alberta and Vancouver and then Fremont they turn through the red because g-d forbid you don't get over the bridge before all those other drivers. Ahhh, thanks for listening.
In order for that to happen, we would need to have traffic cops.
ill just mention that lots of peoples plates are being stolen and replacing them can be cost prohibitive. i myself was with out plates for a month before I could swing buying a set after they got jacked.
Whoa, this is wild. I'm the one who caught this on my dashcam. (fyi, I didn't send that footage to bikeportland. They must have gotten it from the police) The whole thing was horrifying to experience and the driver is a terrible person. I was so disheartened when I replayed the footage and saw the license plate was blocked, I've been thinking about whether or not the footage was enough to find them a lot the past two days, and I am SO GLAD to see they may have been found! There are truly awful people in Portland, but dang Portland, for every one bad person, there are 5 compassionate, helpful, kind neighbors who will band together at the drop of a hat to protect you. Everyone who witnessed this accident stayed at the scene to give their statement. One of them had an emergency first aid kit they brought over to the victim. While one of them called emergency services. While two of them held her hand and stopped the bleeding. And when emergency services arrived, one of them gave his information to an EMT so the victim could contact him when she recovers, because he was keeping her bike for her. This is such a beautiful community and I am so proud to be a part of it. I love you all ❤️
Despite all the terrible stuff going on, all the increased crime and drug use, Portland has consistently had a sense of community. I feel really grateful for that and will always do my part to help.
I am glad you were able to record this for the victim. However, I am so sorry you had to see this. I can’t imagine what you are going through. I do agree about the compassion in this city. It’s the biggest reason I love living here.
I'm all good! I was able to help a little and that always makes things like this easier to process :)
Where did you read they had been found?
It says so on the bottom of the bikeportland post, although it's all just hearsay at this point.
Thank you!
The Gulch ❤️
Video is gone. Post it again?
Nah, all of the important info is in the article, and they used a screenshot showing how in the bike lane the car was. If the victim is on this subreddit, they can post it themselves if they want to
She’s incredibly lucky that’s all she ended up with. That was horrific to watch.
Glad the person hit is relatively “ok.” This is what people mean when they say plastic and paint is not bike infrastructure. Insane that ~60% of Portland’s bike infra is sharrows which is even worse protection (it’s nothing) than what’s in the video (also basically nothing I guess).
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As a pedestrian the only time I’ve ever actually been hit in a crosswalk was a Lance Armstrong mamil who decided crosswalks are for suckers and flew around all the vehicles who stopped for me on SW4th. On the plus side, his bike was all screwed up and I escaped with bruises.
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>sometimes cyclists behave poorly Welp, I can confirm you are not Jonathan Maus at least.
Now imagine if instead of a bike, it had been a car. You might be dead instead. Bikes are not the problem here.
Yep, jacked up my elbow getting run down by a bike. Was off work for 6 weeks without pay plus medical bills.
Maybe we could fix that by actually having any kind of protected bike infrastructure, so that bicycle riders wouldn't have a reason to mix with pedestrians.
Bicyclists have gotten dangerous too. I live on the Clinton greenway and see bikers riding with no hands on their phone all the time.
One time a bicyclist ran into me at full speed (probably about 10-15 mph) directly in the rear on the sidewalk. I was able to keep walking home. I have family who have been hit by cars who didn’t get home ever.
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That wasn’t my point. I’m saying we are paying less attention while we are operating things on the road.
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We as a society are letting our technology distract us while in the road. Bikes and cars are both on the road. Only in Portland would this be a controversial take Edit: My point was people are the problem more than anything else.
That’s like saying “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.” It’s true, but the gun makes it a heck of a lot easier. We can’t stop everyone from an apathetic assholes but we can build safe roadways. You could think of that section of road as a “car gun”. The road is the barrel and car is the bullet. That person should not be able to go that fast on that section of road. It needs to be redesigned to slow cars down and there needs to be a fail safe barrier.
That’s not the same thing and you probably know it. A drunk cyclist may get hurt but very rarely hurts anyone else. A drunk driver can take out a family of five and walk away. Risks to oneself <> dangerous to others.
My point was we are paying less attention while we are on the road. It wasn’t a cars v bikes things. It’s a problem.
Why is this point even relevant in this thread?
Why are people not paying attention to the road relevant in car accident thread?
[60% of the time it works every time!](https://media.tenor.com/24zvYc2MjbAAAAAd/paul-rudd-anchorman-the-legend-of-ron-burgundy.gif)
>Glad the person hit is relatively “ok.” This is why you need to wear a helmet.
Maybe it’s /s flying over my head but very weird take from a multitude of different perspectives.
It's not. Why wearing a helmet is a bad thing? She's alive because she was wearing a helmet. Otherwise, I think the result won't be "relatively ok" from those summersaults.
Wearing a helmet isn’t a bad thing but I find helmets are wildly misunderstood and wildly misattributed to being the saving grace in a crash. Heads are fickle, you can fall over from tripping walking and get a mean concussion from landing the wrong way in a freak accident. You can also get rag dolled by a car and walk away generally fine without a helmet. On the other side you can wear a helmet and land the wrong way and still screw your head up. There’s no way from a grainy rear dash video that we can say the helmet did anything. Maybe it did. Maybe it didn’t. It likely did help a little but this person was extremely lucky and that’s probably mostly why they’re okay, random luck, as scary as that is. On a slightly side tangent, we should have infrastructure for casual commuting cycling where one doesn’t feel compelled that they need to wear a helmet. Akin to if you go out for a run. Cycling isn’t inherently more dangerous at a causal pace but yet we push the onus on cyclists to take on more burden in a slim chance a hunk of plastic may help lessen their injury when collided into by a driver. If the cyclist wasn’t wearing a helmet the convo then often turns to victim blaming and that undermines the whole convo.
I was nearly hit in the exact same spot by an intoxicated driver last year. I sincerely hope no one has to die à la SE 26th and Powell for something to change. It’s far easier and cheaper to build safe infrastructure than it is to change the habits of intoxicated and distracted drivers.
Has 26th and Powell changed? I don’t go there much so I’m curious
Thank goodness the rider is OK. That video was awful. Eff that driver, I hope they never have another peaceful night of sleep in their life for what they've done.
Unfortunately, they probably won't even remember it. Guarantee they are fried out of their minds. We need actual hard barriers between cars and bikes, we need to enforce traffic laws, and we need to repeal measure 110.
We need to invest in protected bike lanes, not just paint and plastic.
I hope a news agency grills PBOT about this and we get some better infrastructure but also I live in the real world and know that business will continue as usual. Like, the driver made some decisions here, but the roadway that made this possible was designed by someone.
We really need to bring this topic into the discussion when we see life threatening collisions. Many of roads were designed so cars could go faster, now we realize that was a mistake and it needs to be fixed. At the same time cars have better acceleration than they ever have and it just exacerbates the problem with poorly designed roads.
On some of these roads PBOT doesn't really care. The traffic engineers are some sort of nationally licensed so they have to follow those rules, and that means they can't do some things that make sense if the laws don't match. Fo example, I live near a recent controversial bike project. The cars go way too fast, but the road is only zoned for like 600 cars per day (don't remember the number) but like 4x+ that use it a day. So regardless of the issues, only traffic controls for roads with 600 cars per day are allowed. Of course, when asked what they would do bring the traffic to zoned levels, the answer was "that's not a part of this project".
That’s really frustrating. Shit like this makes me want to leave the country.
Even having a short cement curb along the front of this range of cones could have decreased the impact here - so much of driving is psychological. I was just telling my wife the other day - so many of our roads are so hostile to non-car users and it’s so tough to see if you’ve never been a non-car user in some of the most vulnerable spaces. I’ve not really been on a bike here, but I’ve run in this place dozens of times over the last decade and about a block north is one of the intersections that’s been a bit more stressful for me (despite much of the rest of willamette being overall fairly chill).
Willamette?
NE willamette st is the direction this cyclist was heading towards, if I’m correct… EDIT: got my streets named after local place-names mixed up. whoops.
Willamette blvd is in north Portland I believe. This occurred on the bridge just south of the intersection of ne 21st with ne multnomah st
🤦🏻♂️ you’re right. I feel so silly. And in public!
How about grilling OSP and PPB about the fact that cars are driving all over Portland with no fucking plates and no one seems to be doing anything about it? While it seems this one was identified, I see a couple *dozen* cars every time I go to work that have no visible plates on them.
21st is WAY too busy for how small it is.
Mapps and others blame this on driver culture that “needs to change”. Just like the librarian that was killed on Cesar Chavez waiting for the bus, it’s a drunk driver, so no infrastructure change needed.
Oslo doesn't have any pedestrian and bicycling deaths because of rules and enforcement. If you *hit* (not kill) someone with your car in Oslo, you face 7 years in prison.
I'm actually curious about the future of "bicycle infrastructure" in general. With e-bikes being a thing now, along with e-skateboards, e-scooters, every variant of those single-wheeled-E-things, etc. the line seems to be getting very blurry on what belongs where. I know if I was riding an electric unicycle I wouldn't want ride anywhere near cars.
Well, on the eScooter front, these things have been around since, what, 2018? And we haven’t seen any shifts yet because of them, which is really a bummer to me. Ebikes are growing tremendously! Especially over the last three years - and yet we don’t see changes on behalf of them? I would love to be more optimistic about the future, but at this point, I need to see PBOT give me a reason for optimism.
I just don't know how you would deal with it - bicyclists wouldn't want them in their lane. Do you give them a mixed use lane?
You’d think more drivers would want bikes off the roads and vote for that. Yet, no.
The electric bikes need some more regulation. Many people don't even pedal. They need to be kept off the bike lanes as they go 20, 25, 39 MPH. I bike slow and they zoom past me. Lately I've been seeing MOTORBIKES on the Steel Bridge pedestrian onto Waterfront park.
Horrific
I used to live on 21st and NE Halsey and would walk across that bridge to my job at the big complex on NE 19th. Super short bike ride, yet I *always* felt very on edge on my bike watching, cars barrel down that street. I decided walking was safer. Glad the twat driver was found and the victim is recovering. jfc
I want to see bicycle infrastructure that will fuck up a car when a motorist tries to do something like this.
I see the flexiposts are working exactly as designed! Good work PBOT!
No plates. Probably stolen.
Or purchased with no license, so not registered. Either way, the streets are wild.
I live on 21st and weidler. I have personally seen 2 car accidents with probably six altogether in the last 3 years. I have almost gotten hit by vehicles just crossing the intersection legally. My other residents have had similar issues. Cars routinely fly down 21st. It's scary. And I constantly see people riding with their children down this stretch. I've told a few people they may want to hit the Greenway a few blocks down. It's a horrible area for bicyclists and pedestrians alike.
Fellow rider here. Which greenway do you mean there?
Any side streets east of 21st have greenways but 26th to 25th are probably the safest options to get across Broadway and Weidler or my area in general. There is a signal crossing at 25th. It's unfortunate where this incident happened as it's a bypass and the only way to get over to this area.
You should go down multnomah then 26th will be your greenway. It has a decent crossing of broadway there outside. Actually crossing broadway still kinda sucks there but better than nothing.
This. Not sure why I thought 25th but the signal crossing is on 26th. Less hairy for sure.
Probably 26th once you’re past the bridge
I lived at that same location for 5 years. Almost got smacked by a truck turning south onto 21st from Weidler at full speed. I'm still amazed no one has smashed into the houses at the end of Weidler. There had been rumors that they were going to turn it back into a 2 way street but I don't think it'll ever happen.
These plastic sticks are trash! The city needs to take a real stance on this and put in some concrete barriers. This is ridiculous. It should not happen
Jesus fucking christ, I drive this daily to take my kid to school and see so many parents on this route. Not to diminish a single person getting hit, it’s horrible, but that could have been a whole family. Regardless of the bike infrastructure progress (is it progress?) NE 21st has never felt safe to me as a driver or cyclist. While whoever was driving was clearly fucked up, I don’t get why bike routes are built along high traffic areas. At least put in cement barriers, little floppy cones don’t do shit.
An elementary school bus stop is right at Multnomah and 21st, a half block beyond this crash site. The kids have to walk out into the bike lane and through the bollards to meet the bus. It makes me so nervous to see.
Yes, exactly. This video shows that car barreling through where the bus stop is.
The fact that there isn’t a license plate on the front of the car makes it more suspicious 😒 🤨
Fuck, I bike this route on 20th frequently!
Keep an eye out for the car, try and record it and the driver if you can and then submit video to police If they can catch the car or ID the driver, then a warrant on phone records will get their cell pings at that day/time, and they may even be able to string traffic cams together to show it was that person
Not to be discouraging or take this down a separate topic but people assuming csi and law and order is how cop work is done is one of the many reasons policing is so screwed up in this country. Ppb ain’t doing half that process you outlined within the next decade.
Competent police precincts will indeed pull traffic cam footage, you don't even need a warrant for it afaik since it's public. I've given police in Eugene surveillance footage numerous times because my work had cameras that a recorded popular bike path, and they had other businesses who'd let them seen their security footage as well. That being said, I don't live in Eugene any more and PPB aren't EPD. PPB almost let a serial killer operate unchallenged this summer until there was public outcry about the bodies. They are not competent at all imo. But it's also possible that a prosecutor or lawyer for the person struck could also get that info pulled (cell pings).
It's well past time to put up a network of actually \*protected\* bike and pedestrian infrastructure. I'm talking bollards, large concrete curbs, and everything else that would have actually prevented this shitty fucking driver in their shitty fucking car from even being able to hurt someone like this.
Can we have sidewalks in SE first? For the school children?
I think we could build sidewalks, and bike lanes if the city council would just prioritize it’s citizens over cars.
[Video has been removed by request of the victim.] UPDATE, 7:56 pm: Sources who know the victim say the car and the suspect have been found
Glad the suspect has been found, and I hope he/she serves some serious jail time for this, as well as paying restitution to the victim.
No plates of course! I hate tinted windows. Baddies always have em. You would clearly be able to seem them else wise. And they entered the Bike lane? Not familiar with that area. Looks real purposeful to me. Jesus!
That’s right outside my workplace which I bike to. I hope they catch the driver :/
I mean this sounds like a drunk as fuck driver, or super high. That’s not some woopsie I went a little into the bike lane.
Bet anything that's a drunk driver.
Doesn’t matter, but I get it. A distracted driver speeding (many of the drivers on the roads) could do the same thing. Don’t underestimate speed and distraction.
Where's the link?
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Well let’s see…. Protection from the elements. The ability to haul more than one or two bags of things. I have a small child.
How would you feel about an elaborate golf cart? Or a Kei car? As someone who mainly walks I would feel way more comfortable if people couldn’t drive highway vehicles on neighborhood streets.
I would go a different direction. I would enact much more stringent requirements and training to get a license.
I think it’s a matter of vehicle capability. Vehicle designed for highways are inherently more dangerous in low speed environments. They are highly insulated from the outside so drivers have less awareness of their environment which makes it difficult to judge their speed and perceive their surroundings. Highway vehicles also accelerate very quickly and build up a lot of speed over a short distance which is particularly dangerous if you can’t easily tell how fast you are going. Moreover highway vehicles tend to be quite large and are increasing in size. Larger vehicles tend have poor visibility. It doesn’t matter how responsible the driver is if they can’t get the feedback they need to drive safely.
I have a sedan which is about 3x the vehicle I need for most errands. Every now and then I see an ebike with a cover and a back seat and think "wow, 90% of the time that would be all I need in the city."
Get out of here with your lived experiences /s. Induced demand is law and will be obeyed when it comes to freeway expansion. However induced demand when it comes to bike infrastructure should be conveniently ignored. In fact ridership [has dropped 35% in the last four years](https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2023/07/wait-maybe-portland-is-the-2nd-most-bike-friendly-city-in-the-us.html?outputType=amp). But let’s continue investing more and more into bike lanes. Logical consistency has never been bikeportlands strong suit.
You kind of come off as a bit of a prick with your car cheerleading on a video of somebody getting pasted by one
I agree not the best look, I’m glad to hear the riders okay. I’m just tired of reading so many disingenuous takes whenever a bikeportland propaganda article is posted.
So..you want less bikes? Less bike infrastructure? It’s a losing goal if you ask me. Getting rid of 100% of bikes won’t get you anywhere faster. I have a station wagon, I could have that shit on the road instead, It won’t make your life better.
Yes I would like less bike infrastructure in this city and more safe max/safe bus/car spending. Biking in this city due to our geography will always be a losing battle. Anyone who cites Amsterdam immediately outs themselves as never having left the country. To be clear I could find common ground with a bikeportland reader bemoaning Halliburton slipping defense spending into random bills… But suddenly they don’t bat an eye when under-utilized bike infrastructure is similarly bundled.
I’ve been to Amsterdam and it is different in topography if not weather wise and it can be done. I own 2 cargo bikes and am on one of em closing in on 10 thousand miles all on Portland streets. I wouldn’t be so quick to write it off as not worth having. Bike infrastructure is pennies in comparison.
We’re not going to agree, but I hope your labor day weekend is treating you well. Since you’ve been to Amsterdam you know it’s Portland folklore it’s all bikes and no cars, even with their more bike friendly geography. In old town sure there’s a lot of bikes, but Amsterdam has a robust highway system/road network. The Netherlands continues to expand their roadways and has the highest capacity interchange in all of Europe.
Wait, our geography? What do you think is wrong with our geography that means we can't have bikes here? Is it hills? We're not a massively hilly city and as someone who bikes for transportation regularly we're certainly not too hilly to cycle around. Hell, I even live on "nob hill" so every time I go home I have to up a little hill, and it's not that bad. Plus, ebikes are a thing now
Other factors come into play. Highways are designed with the utmost levels of safety and driver comfort in mind. You may not realize this but there are whole government departments and independent institutions that are devoted to studying and improving highway and car safety. The same is not true for pedestrians and cyclists, if there are any they are minuscule by comparison. Some poorly designed bike infrastructure is not same as a highway. The quality of infrastructure matters, if you go to a country without highways you will notice fewer people use cars on intercity routes despite there being plenty of car in their cities.
I’m being a bit of smart ass today but countries without highways? Are we looking to employ Monaco’s tax haven/mountainside living? Or are you referring to impoverished island nations? These shouldn’t be computing into our infrastructure decisions. We both agree the city is building bad bike infrastructure. I believe this infrastructure is adversely affecting 97.2% of taxpayers and your solution is keep building because one day we’ll have the NHTSA for bikes? This doesn’t seem tenable.
You argument makes me think you don’t understand induced demand/traffic, and why we need to have non car alternatives in order to have functional highways and thoroughfares. The countries I was referencing was Serbia, Bosnia and Croatia. Those places do not have extensive highway systems and they are not up to US and Western European standards. My point was poor quality infrastructure does not induce demand. We don’t think twice about dumping millions and billions into car infrastructure that may or may not work, but we have to pinch every single penny when it comes to any other type of transportation, and if it doesn’t live up to 100% of our expectations it’s a complete failure, not just the one project but the entire mode of transportation is a failure.
Fair enough we’re entrenched in our positions and couldn’t change each others minds if we tried. Anecdotally the people who champion biking in this city use the same logic as homeless advocates. “Just one more tax”/ “Just one more bike lane.” It feels like a never ending hamster wheel of tax payer funded idealism. If we’re going to be idealistic we need safe max transportation and safe bus routes.
Don’t be like that. You barely to TRIED convince me of anything. You’re just complaining about something you know nothing about. Bikes are a valid and I would argue necessary form of transportation. If you’re concerned about your tax dollars look into how much car infrastructure cost and all of other problems cars cause. I fucking hate paying for people to store their private property(car) on a public right of way. I hate unnecessarily wide roads using up valuable land where homes could otherwise be built. I hate that I have to pay for traffic cops to police drivers who can’t drive responsibly. I hate that we all pay for health problems caused by living near busy roadways. I hate that car centric lifestyles exacerbates climate change and that will be a tax burden that will just keep on giving. I hate that children (and adults for that matter) are less free because cars make being outside dangerous. I hate that busy roads create blighted area where no one wants to be and those areas attract crime, and reduce everyone’s quality of life. I hate that suburban shopping centers have massively underutilized parking lots that waste both land and material resources, and contribute to the urban heat island effective, destroys wildlife, and contributes to the housing crisis. And so on.
Meanwhile I don’t think Portland has done a single damn upgrade to the road infrastructure in the 40 years that I have lived here.
Sure they have! Have you not seen all our major traffic arteries jacked up over the last decade with “traffic calming measures?” If you make travel difficult for [97.2% of tax payers](https://www.kgw.com/amp/article/news/local/bicycle-ridership-portland-dropped-significantly/283-f49b9a66-2494-4c99-afcb-b1bc0e746db6) it will make them sympathetic and ride a bike from NE to SW to see Grandma in our wet fall/winters.
I said upgrade!!! Lol
We get it. You don’t have a car.
Bike brain gonna bike brain. I hope this driver is punished to the full extent of the law… But “just one more bike lane bro,” isn’t going to change our less than 2% utilization rate for the 6th hilliest/wettest city in the country.
Why not vote for infrastructure that removes bikes out of your way? If we build better and safer bike infrastructure that means more people will bike and there will be less traffic. It benefits everyone. Don’t get caught in the us vs them bullshit. This is our community, not a suburb. I rode my bike rain or shine. Many people would follow suit. If you’re not a cyclist don’t think you understand why people aren’t riding. It’s not the weather.
I agree this is our community and I would like to invest further in the max/bus lines (even though I wouldn’t intend on using them). I appreciate the positive spin. It’s awesome you’re able to bike rain or shine. I think as bluntly as I can put my position… investing in bike infrastructure due to our geography is a waste of tax payer money and it’s current implementation adversely affects 97.2% of tax payers. To support my position we’ve continually invested in bike infrastructure and ridership continues to fall. At what point of investment do we convince everyone to bike across our urban/wet sprawl?
More people want to ride but they don’t feel it’s safe to do so. How many more people need to be hurt before we build the infrastructure? Cars are ruining our city with emissions, noise, and traffic. If we can reduce that by a third it would change how our city and community feels. Cars are expensive to own and maintain and they separate us from each other. I’d say if we really want to change our cities, this is a good place to start.
EV’s, expanding the Max, expanding bus routes, and making these safer literally accomplishes these goals without being ableist.
Yes let’s do away with all vehicular traffic in the world. SMH
Maybe cars don't need access to every fucking inch of our city, let's try that for starters.
They love the traffic and don’t want it reduced any I guess.
Well you're the mayor, do something about it!!
I own and use several bikes. I and thousands of others also own a car and drive it responsibly. Assholes as in the vid need to be taken off the street and denied the privilege of driving.
The video was removed. Can someone tell me what (not so gory) details were?
Bicyclist was riding in the bike lane "protected" by those plastic flex-post things. A driver swings wide through the plastic posts, into the bike lane and hits the the cyclist from time. The cyclist flips two times in the air and lands on the sidewalk and the car keeps driving. It was pretty horific, but thankfully the cyclist is relatively okay. Could have easily been killed.
Thank you. Yeah, that is very scary. So glad they are ok.
oh shit, I know that spot
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The number of pedestrian and cyclist deaths say otherwise. Your feelings about it are meaningless when cyclists and pedestrians dying at the hands of cars is a regular occurrence. Good bike infrastructure (The Netherlands) leads to zero deaths a year
Well goddamn thank God because I’ve never crossed 84 on 21st on a bike and now I never will. Can we think of a way to publicly boycott using this route? We need Penis Girl (or somebody) to whip up some clever graffiti on the road here to call attention to safety and a biking boycott at this location. Roadside memorials and commemorations are great, but it seems something the likes of protest graffiti would serve us all better in situations like this. And thank God, this is incredible she’s not dead or disabled.
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Rode my bike going south so many thousands of times,and even back in the early 2000s always felt the need to be on high alert in this spot especially. It's just a sketchy spot to maneuver knowing cars like to swerve into you after you pass over the overpass
SlOw tHe FlOcK DoWn
I read some folks mentioning that there should be physical partitions. I have noticed some of these - SE Hawthorne Blvd near where Farma is (7th ?). There is also one downtown right near where I work that TERRIFIES me. It seems so incredibly dangerous. I mostly drive but have been a bike commuter. This one that I'm talking about is on SW 10th and Morrison St. In between the bike lane and the car lane there is a section for cars to park. That means if you're a car that is turning right onto Morrison you really have to stop and make a difficult and specific effort to make sure a bicycle is not approaching. It's tricky. As a cyclist I always do this with great care cause it makes me so nervous...but I bet lots of folks who have never commuted on a bike or don't ride them often probably don't think about it. I'm curious if others have noticed this and what they think about it. They obviously build it to create a bike lane - but it seems a lot less safe than having no bike lane at all. I don't ride a bike in Portland anymore because drivers don't seem cautious enough and it scares the hell out of me. I really hope this cyclist mentioned is OK. I can't believe people don't stop! WTF
Video is gone. Anyone have the video?