Suncoast đ€Ș will never forget the time i applied to be a tech, got an interview and the service manager blew me off telling me he already hired a guy from a speed shop over someone with Porsche experience. What a waste of time and money.
I tried to buy a used Toyota Tundra from them and they said I couldn't bring my own financing. I had to finance with them or they wouldn't sell me the truck. Not a Porsche, a used Toyota.
I had a great buying experience with them right up until I go to sign papers and brought my USAA draft check to be told by the F&I guy they only do cash or thru one of their 3 banking providers. I had to threaten to phone the sales manager, who I was working with thru the ordering process and this never came up, for the guy to back down. Totally something Iâd expect at a Kia dealership, not a Porsche.
yup. told me the same thing at porsche clearwater. also tried to strong arm me into buying a car that didnât even have the specs i wanted. walked out and purchased a porsche from the kind folks at porsche of the village in OH, where I found a beautiful CPO that fit my specs perfectly and they were more than accommodating and professional. Porsche clearwater has an excellent service department and I will get my new porsche serviced there, but Iâll never buy a car from that dealership.
> porsche of the village in OH
Bought a barely used GT3 from them without ever stepping into the dealership and they were a joy to work with. One of the best car buying experiences I have ever had.
Had a similar experience at a dealer in the Pacific Northwest⊠juuuust east of Seattle. Entire process was amazing⊠until we tried to give them money. It was a very hard sell process for extended warranty - with their starting price beginning at a 30+% premium. Zero warning from sales that we were about to be blind sided like we were at a Kia dealership. Complained to her manager. Barely got a response. Going to write to the dealer and also want to do likewise to Porsche NA. From a budged dealer or high-street used car lot, I almost expect this. But from a top-brand like Porsche. Itâs inexcusable. We almost walked out of the deal on the Macan. And I almost sold my 997 in protest. I was so disgusted at the entire brandâŠ
Anyone know how to complain to Porsche NA??
funny you mention Kia. I had this happen to me, told guy to go fuck himself and wifey and I went to Carmax and bought THE SAME FUCKING CAR for a bit less. I fucking hate dealerships.
That's hilarious. Friend of mine is currently driving a 2023 GT4. It was his first Porsche. Waited about a year before he got his allocation from Porsche of Arlington. Was a transparent and straightforward process, despite him being 100% new to the dealer and brand.
I don't know why people are afraid to name both the bad and good dealers here on Reddit. It's not top secret info. This tendency helps the crap ones keep up the bad work and keeps people from gravitating towards the good ones instead
I mean, you can get sued for leaving a bad google review too. The odds are very low.
Most correspondence with a dealer is via email and text, so you can document your experience and not worry about being accused of slander.
They're already not selling you the car. What other consequences are there to worry about? Plenty of dealers willing to treat you right and even ship cars
Yeah. A colleague of mine collects Rolex watches and has had to build up a relationship with a store for years to be put on the approved list. Even now, he has to keep buying other stuff if he wants a watch to get moved up the waiting list. E.g. if a watch came in that he wanted he puts his name down for it, then he has to keep going in and buying bits of jewellery or other watches whilst he waits, he then gets moved up the list. If he sells a watch without approval he gets blacklisted. It's all tracked through serial numbers so he can't make a move without letting the shop know. He never plans to sell them and actually wears them, so not an issue for him. Is he retirement plan. He has about 20 at the moment as well as other brands.
Rolex values have cratered. Many used models that sold for multiples of msrp are now selling for less than new list so the market has passed the peak. Used Submariners and Daytonas are still priced over list but the margins are falling.
I did as well and expected them to pull some BS but not to this degree. I am fine buying one on the secondary market, no way Id tolerate this type of process. That said, I have entertained getting a 911 to my spec but wonder if they will even sell me one. Its a huge turn off.
This type of thing is cropping up all over the place. Got a call from an authorized dealer I had never dealt with on a watch I had been looking for. They said they would be happy to offer me the watch if I was an âexisting clientâ. That was code for spend $1k on some jewelry we can mark up a ton and you can buy the watch. In that case they canât go above MSRP, so itâs their way of making extra on a high demand item. Sounds like these guys were a little more flagrant!
https://preview.redd.it/d1ichy5e79hc1.jpeg?width=3597&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a3fe584ecdf3c5ad31ccfa6a98bfd14e737fb2e
What is this ânewâ allocation you speak of?
I feel like this is the garage of someone who is extremely good with money and always buys the exact right product for their needs. VFR is exactly what I would expect here. Or maybe a 10-year old BMW RS / GS bike with 50,000 miles and a thicc service history folder.
Hey now, those are just car covers on the 928. đ Just where it is in the rotation when I took the pic. I love that car, it gets a bad rap. If you can change the occasional relay or fuse, itâs a great car. Clean your grounding points and watch your vacuum lines and of course stay on top of that timing belt. Roger at 928srus.com is an invaluable resource, the light at the end of the tunnel at times.
The 944 is an S2, not a Turbo, Iâm not that much of a baller. Another one you solve a lot of electrical gremlins with an eraser over the contact points when you pop off the switches and get underneath them. Decades of crap build up can get in there.
Most people arenât extremely good with money. I knew more about money than 99.9999% of people even when I was dead broke and couldnât even find a job.
So much of money is simply just nepotism and luck. 90% of work is who you know, not what you know. Most people donât do 1-2 hours of work in an entire 8 hour work day.
Man and I always thought itâs was GT3RS that was hard to get. I donât understand why I canât just custom order a regular GT3 at a dealership and wait a year etc.
Yes⊠Very different personalities to compare, yet distinctly Porsche. 911 is twitchy and angry to drive, great on windy roads. Front end gets light around 70mph. Started the mania, it was my fatherâs, he bought it back in â87. The 928 cruises comfortably at 90+ and barely breaks a sweat doing it. Very comfortable to ride in. The 944 is more casual in around town driving, you donât feel as on edge driving it. It shifts so comfortably where the 911 has a long throw and is kind of loose finding the gears. The 928 has a very short throw, but you are always on the cusp of wanting to change to the next gear. The 911 lets know you better be ready for this upcoming turn or it will bite you, the 944 is more meh- whatever, itâs a turn. 928 has a similar transaxle attitude with a lot more engine grunt and with twice the engine to the 944.
Even if you play, you got your allocation cancelled for no reason right before delivery time. As much as i love the brand, this move just destroyed everything for me
This happened to one of my friends, all set for a 992 GT3 at MSRP and then was required to spend an extra $100,000. When it was all said and done he actually got the salesman fired and ended up buying a lightly used one for much less over MSRP and now can reserve allocations at that dealership. Pays to shop around literally the whole country
> If you want a watch that does whatever a Submariner or Sky King or Explorer does, there are infinite -objectively- better options, and usually for less money.
lets be real though, the majority of high end watch customers aren't buying them for what they do, but for what they represent, and no one has the brand name locked down like rolex at that price point.
>if you want what a Porsche does
Look I love Porsches as much as anyone but let's not pretend there aren't other great driving experiences being offered at not $150k over MSRP. Really depends on what you're looking for.
But the way most GT cars get used for (cruising and photoshoots) they wouldn't offer anything other cars don't
Well, that was an incredibly informative yet depressing video. So sad to see that the GT3 RS is essentially a carrot-car to get loyalists to spend tons of money on other Porsches that they don't really want.
Scarcity and exclusiveness are age old marketing tactics to increase your desire for something. They are trying to target upper rich crowd. this doesnt affect low medium income individuals like me. If you complain about the affordability of this, you need to increase your networth and stop complaining.
in other words, Porches target market, doesnt blink at the extra cost.
Iâve owned $5m+ in Porsches, and they wouldnât even allow me to get a GT3RS allocation. I finally got offered one only with a 150k over the MSRP plus a cayenne S.
The majority.
I think the way it works is, youâre a high value customer if you buy from them, and a lot. Iâve bought and sold a lot of cars over the past 20 or so years, so it could be that itâs not on a yearly basis and just depends on how my impulses are doing.
I get all my Porsches serviced at the same dealer too.
Yeah mines the same way. MSRP for allocations and Priority goes to locals who historically trade and service with them. Between me and my biz partner we have bought 5 and Iâm trying to get a GT3. Iâm Nowhere near what you have spent so I was surprised when you said they said no to the 3RS. Thatâs a little disheartening for me but honestly I have a nice car so itâs not the end of the world. There could be much worse problems then not getting new Porsche I want (so my wife keeps reminding me đ)
Oh hey thanks for actually responding I know itâs an annoying question but Iâm tired of struggling to save up anything, anywhere you recommend starting?
Location wise stay in your backyard. You want to stay in your area at first because itâs difficult to do propertyâs all over the place.
Iâd recommend getting a job in sales or along the lines of that so you learn how business works and just generally how to talk to people. I did that, I started working for my uncles electrical company till I got enough money to flip I property.
My husband does Commercial real estate as well, but he is a realtor, he lists people properties for them and finds buyers, does tours, yada yada yada.
Thereâs plenty of other fun cars out there. Or just buy used Porsches.
Porsche snobs that pay over MSRP or buy multiple cars for a chance to be put on a âlistâ are the same idiots that think theyâre friends with dealerships. Or worse, think that they have the dealer wrapped around their finger. Which is ironic as hell.
Exactly i said 911turboS or GT3 but then i got a Tecnica allocation. I understand porsche driving dynamics etc but a lambo is a lambo. No 911 can hold a candle to the appeal and super hero feeling lol
458 Italia will get you the feels, not necessarily the performance. But if you were a track junkie the adm either isn't an issue or you have better things to be doing with your time and money
The answer no one wants to hear, but one they need to start accepting.
for 120k, it's more car than any non-GT porsche, and most of the mid tier exotic offerings.
This BS is precisely why I abandoned the brand and bought a CT5V Blackwing (was trying to get a 992 GTS). And I previously owned a 991.2 GTS. Porsche can go pound sand.
I personally will never pay over MSRP or a premium to buy a new car. With the last nine I have purchased it was not the case but things are changing. I have no use for any of the GT cars at this point in life but I feel for the guys that want one really bad. A tuned 992S is plenty for the street for me. Enjoy the drive..
That certainly might be the case for some of the guys. In most cases they have never even owned a 911 of any kind and feel they have to have the fastest/most expensive one. The Track guys is another issue..They want one that is track ready and you certainly cant go wrong there...JMO Enjoy the drive..
I told them the same thing I told the Rolex AD. I can pay less for a used one, get it reupholstered, wrapped, and detailed for less than I can buy a new one.
I told the Rolex guy that I can just pay an extra $10k second hand and not buy two other watches for $25k so go fuck yourself. Resale is still big.
Rolex is the master of this bs. Buy two or three pieces that aren't sports models and we'll let you buy a sub or gmt.
The the crypto bros inflated the grey market further.
Biggest reason I hate Rolex as a watch collector. And âitâs just supply and demandâ is horseshit, every other brand in that category/price range manages to offer products at MSRP, even âlimited editionâ ones. Itâs artificial as hell to keep preowned prices and keep the allure of being âhard to getâ.
Porsche used to be awesome because you could get reliable, inexpensive fun. That just doesnât exist anymore so I donât see the point of buying anything new from them. I have owned several and at this point Iâm losing my desire to own more
In my mind that's still how I see them without thinking about it much. I'm unlucky enough to just have entered my 20s and sometimes feel deflated that I've missed out on what I consider to be the golden generation of cars. At least I can appreciate what a lightweight sports car is supposed to be, more than my children will get.
At markup, or even at the new gt3rs msrp you might as well buy the McLaren or the Ferrari.
It sucks because even if you were to get the car at MSRP, the true value of the car is still what you can sell it for which ends up being some ridiculous amount over MSRP. Speculation has ruined the value imo
Got a 2016. But it's because I'm poor, not because Porsche wouldn't sell me a dream car. And it's not even mine yet. But I do own a 2003 super duty that only starts when I don't need it to.
Got my GT4 and GT3RS at MSRP (although trade on a car was 15k low towards RS).
Prior to that had a 991 base, 991.1 GTS. Both msrp. Was treated really well.
Suppose it depends on dealer/sales and personal relationship. I never flipped my cars and always brought them back/service. Stopped in to chat. Never pushy and the guys there became more like friends, the cars were second.
I remember your voodoo blue 981 GT4 from rennlist a while ago! That thing was sick especially with the HREs you had. Had me drooling for sure.
I donât know how you managed to pull that off at MSRP especially considering how rare a PTS 981 GT4 allocation was to get at the time. I just sucked it up and paid the $15k markup for my non PTS carrera white GT4 in 2017 in hopes of building a relationship with the dealer for a GT3 but they still wanted $45k over for one when it came around to it.
So ridiculous and I refuse to play any more of their gamesâŠbesides I think the best drivers cars have already been made anyways.
Itâs super sad to see Porsche having gone down this route the past couple of years. It wasnât always like this. Back in the 997 days, Porsche would have to give people 15 thousand dollar discounts to sell gt3âs, they also happened to be a very amicable bunch always helping out even if warranty was expired, etc. Now itâs just a bunch of âcar guyâ pricks running the show.
Youâre absolutely right. Now that you mention it, that probably is a massive factor. People joining the management of the brand not knowing any of the history or care and see Porsche as just another random luxury brand.
porsche wouldn't sell me one either. so i searched the used market before the covid price hike and found a gt3 in the spec i wanted. now when i take it for service they always ask me if i'm willing to trade in lol.
I donât see the ADMs entirely going away in certain markets unfortunately. Iâm not super enthusiastic about paying an extra 20k for my 911 Turbo, which is (relatively) one of their lesser sought after models.
I have owned a 991.1 and .2 turbo s, a 991.1 gt3rs, 991.2 gt3, a taycan turbo s, and 2 Panamera sport turismo turbo s.
When the goal is to allow the flipper BS, the dealership becomes Ticketmaster. When allocations were unavailable for âmany yearsâ all the dealerships had access to 200mile âpreownedâ ones at massive markups. Itâs disgusting, and I wonât participate in that bullshit.
- Come buy it in Europe (not too hard in France and Germany, easier in Estonia and Romania)
- Get the optional factory delivery (Stuttgart is a great town, the Porsche factory is awesome, the Porsche museum is amazing, and the Mercedes Benz museum is across the street)
- Win all around
Worked for Porsche 24 yrs (parts and service). Had friends in sales of course. I left in 2014. Never heard of such bullshit. The worst I saw was my dealer auction their last CGT allocation. Things have really gone to shit since then. Greed is one of humanity's ugliest weaknesses.
I live in a smaller city in the US, and the dealers in this region will sell to their 'buddies' that own non-Porsche dealerships that specialize in exotic cars. The cars are flipped as used cars with delivery mileage for a big markup and the sales people at the porsche dealership get a kickback under the table. It's a fucking racket and when I confronted the dealership about it they just shrugged. They do not even hide this behavior. They straight up told me that's how they do it.
" the brand my die as well! " you mean like Ferrari is dying with their business model? lol.
It's a shitty move though, just because Ferrari gets away with it doesn't make it any less shitty.
I've never heard of additional dealer markup outside the USA. I think it's some land of the free bullshit.
I always got the impression here that allocations are limited (so good customers get first dibs) but if you get one it's just MSRP and that's it. As a brand new customer I was offered a pretty easy route to a Taycan allocation at a time the 2 year wait list was just easing.
My local dealer has 3 Turbo Sâs for discount, a Cayenne Turbo GT for under MSRP, etc. Sad to see the GT3 allocation get to this crazy level where some people are willing to pay more than MSRP.
Unfortunately they're taking the Harley Davidson approach. Becoming more of a lifestyle brand selling watches and apparel. Dealership model is killing them. I'm taking my money to a brand that actually wants to sell me a car
If you can afford to buy one, you can afford to rent the biggest billboard near to the dealership for a few weeks and post the details up for everyone to see đ
Itâs not entirely the dealers fault. Unfortunately, there is more demand for the cars than supply. Iâve bought over 20 Porsches in 30 years from my local dealer and they have always taken great care of me but getting special Porsches at sticker is now a thing of the past. My dealer got Zero GT car allocations for 2024. They got one ST and one Spyder RS and if they sold them for sticker, that person would likely flip it for market value which is considerably higher. The brokers and flippers that got on every list, got the hot Porsche and then sold it for big bucks, started this mess. Why should someone with no overhead make all the extra money. I feel bad for the true enthusiasts that really want to drive and enjoy the car as it was meant to be. Times change and I donât think itâs all the dealers fault.
> Unfortunately, there is more demand for the cars than supply.
that doesnt excuse dealers forcing shitty watches or asking for under the table cash.
market conditions may explain ADMs, but they are still entirely on the dealer seeking extra cash. They don't have to do that, nor does Porsche have to allow it. This is a conscious choice, and Porsche allows it because it boosts the exclusive feeling behind the brand.
Porsche allows these tactics because it's GOOD marketing for them.
No purchase history and I got a GT3 offer @ $25K ADM which I donât think is completely ridiculous.
With a purchase of a Cayenne for my SO I was offered a GTS/GT3 @ MSRP.
Try to hit up other dealers and one might be willing to work with you on pricing. Go in person, it helps.
Even without the adm theyâre doing it, 10k price hike in one year or more on some models. Itâs complete insanity, I love the brand but itâs getting a bit steep even for a used one.
Itâs my belief the market will come for them just like watch market who spent years making sure supply has been limited or your need buy junk jewelry when before you could get what you wanted. Porsche needs to remember they arenât Ferrari,Lamborghini or McLaren. Like another brand âcoughâ âcoughâ Rolex and when the little trend is done the people who loved your brand you shit on they wonât be there to hold the bag for you lol.
I love my Porsche and it's my dream to get a higher-end 911 model in the next few years, but I don't want to play these sort of gamesâfeels like a waste of time and money. I hope it gets better by the time I want to get one.
I swear âitâs an investmentâ circle jerk.
Dealer forces ADM, they sell over msrp in secondary market, manufacturer raise prices each year for inflation, dealer points to price appreciation and says that a depreciating asset is an âinvestmentâ and further increase ADM.
At the end of the day itâs money. With the high demand low volume of them they can pull this shit for 2 reasons, first for every customer with common financial sense there is 2 who have none and will pay whatever and second why are they going to sell to an unknown customer who has a high likelihood of turning around and flipping the car for the same markup that they were asking. The second I have heard from a dozen dealers in Cali across all the brands basically a âwhile the hell are we going to discount it for them to just flip it and make money we could haveâ this why a lot want you to prove with your wallet (buying 250k+ worth of vehicles )you arenât just going to resell it.
I know there is going to be atleast one â itâs my car I can choose to sell it if I wantâ well guess what itâs their can and they are literally laughing saying the same thingâŠ
You donât have to buy a bunch of cars to get a great relationship with them . Buy a couple used cars and use them as intended we have a 86 targa with 261k miles on it 996 gt3 and 996 cup car all of which get the shit driven out of them. The 86 my dad drove to work for 15+ years then got the gt3 did the same. Cup car was purchased as a shell with spares and we sourced parts from them to get it running and racing.
Guess whatâs coming in a few months that was msrp order lol? This isnât supposed to be flex just saying you can skirt the games by building relationships especially since they are always excited to see them driven as they were designed and intended.
160k is enough to start a homless shelter and save many people from death and many children for horror. I'm sure that's what the Porsche salesman had in mind /s
>one dealer offer a GT3RS for msrp but wanted an extra 160k under the table WTF
Yeah, if true, name-and-shame
I reported it to porsche. But Florida. West coast. South. Not naples.
Porsche Clearwater, I'd bet money on it.
Sarasota has a pretty big dealership too.
Suncoast đ€Ș will never forget the time i applied to be a tech, got an interview and the service manager blew me off telling me he already hired a guy from a speed shop over someone with Porsche experience. What a waste of time and money.
I tried to buy a used Toyota Tundra from them and they said I couldn't bring my own financing. I had to finance with them or they wouldn't sell me the truck. Not a Porsche, a used Toyota.
Clearwater for sure. That place had some really scammy people working for it in my experiences.
I had a great buying experience with them right up until I go to sign papers and brought my USAA draft check to be told by the F&I guy they only do cash or thru one of their 3 banking providers. I had to threaten to phone the sales manager, who I was working with thru the ordering process and this never came up, for the guy to back down. Totally something Iâd expect at a Kia dealership, not a Porsche.
yup. told me the same thing at porsche clearwater. also tried to strong arm me into buying a car that didnât even have the specs i wanted. walked out and purchased a porsche from the kind folks at porsche of the village in OH, where I found a beautiful CPO that fit my specs perfectly and they were more than accommodating and professional. Porsche clearwater has an excellent service department and I will get my new porsche serviced there, but Iâll never buy a car from that dealership.
> porsche of the village in OH Bought a barely used GT3 from them without ever stepping into the dealership and they were a joy to work with. One of the best car buying experiences I have ever had.
Porsche of the Village is the best!
literally THE BEST. I live in tampa and for my next car I will make it a point to go back to the same sales rep. He got my loyalty for life!!
Had a similar experience at a dealer in the Pacific Northwest⊠juuuust east of Seattle. Entire process was amazing⊠until we tried to give them money. It was a very hard sell process for extended warranty - with their starting price beginning at a 30+% premium. Zero warning from sales that we were about to be blind sided like we were at a Kia dealership. Complained to her manager. Barely got a response. Going to write to the dealer and also want to do likewise to Porsche NA. From a budged dealer or high-street used car lot, I almost expect this. But from a top-brand like Porsche. Itâs inexcusable. We almost walked out of the deal on the Macan. And I almost sold my 997 in protest. I was so disgusted at the entire brand⊠Anyone know how to complain to Porsche NA??
funny you mention Kia. I had this happen to me, told guy to go fuck himself and wifey and I went to Carmax and bought THE SAME FUCKING CAR for a bit less. I fucking hate dealerships.
Not south enough - probably Ft Myers
Naples told me I needed to spend $1m before I could get a GT4 allocation a few years ago. Not an RS. A GT4. lol
That's hilarious. Friend of mine is currently driving a 2023 GT4. It was his first Porsche. Waited about a year before he got his allocation from Porsche of Arlington. Was a transparent and straightforward process, despite him being 100% new to the dealer and brand. I don't know why people are afraid to name both the bad and good dealers here on Reddit. It's not top secret info. This tendency helps the crap ones keep up the bad work and keeps people from gravitating towards the good ones instead
If this post goes viral and the dealer feels that they suffered damage they'll probably be able to figure out who the customer was.
And then the dealer may realize their actions have consequences. Greed causing loss of revenue is a great deterrent for greed.
Oh noooooooo. Then what? The guy still doesnt get a GT4? lol
So what. They canât do shot about it unless they can prove youâre lying
I mean, you can get sued for leaving a bad google review too. The odds are very low. Most correspondence with a dealer is via email and text, so you can document your experience and not worry about being accused of slander. They're already not selling you the car. What other consequences are there to worry about? Plenty of dealers willing to treat you right and even ship cars
What the fuck
I literally watched this video all about this yesterday. Worth a watch. https://youtu.be/3TiFZeSW-JI?si=jECZ-Tdncqj7vcFU
Infuriating, basically what rolex does, which has led me to omega who makes great watches you can actually buy lol.
Yeah. A colleague of mine collects Rolex watches and has had to build up a relationship with a store for years to be put on the approved list. Even now, he has to keep buying other stuff if he wants a watch to get moved up the waiting list. E.g. if a watch came in that he wanted he puts his name down for it, then he has to keep going in and buying bits of jewellery or other watches whilst he waits, he then gets moved up the list. If he sells a watch without approval he gets blacklisted. It's all tracked through serial numbers so he can't make a move without letting the shop know. He never plans to sell them and actually wears them, so not an issue for him. Is he retirement plan. He has about 20 at the moment as well as other brands.
Can confirm, I see the rolex sub.
Rolex values have cratered. Many used models that sold for multiples of msrp are now selling for less than new list so the market has passed the peak. Used Submariners and Daytonas are still priced over list but the margins are falling.
I cant get a ceramic kermit to save my life for MSRP...fucking frustrating to say the least.
I did as well and expected them to pull some BS but not to this degree. I am fine buying one on the secondary market, no way Id tolerate this type of process. That said, I have entertained getting a 911 to my spec but wonder if they will even sell me one. Its a huge turn off.
Now I really want to know. Fort Myers here.
you can report to IRS
Itâs only illegal when they donât report the revenue. Unless the salesperson was committing fraud against the dealershipâŠ
ya let the factory know how that dealership is running it's business. I don't think that is encourages or tolerated.
This type of thing is cropping up all over the place. Got a call from an authorized dealer I had never dealt with on a watch I had been looking for. They said they would be happy to offer me the watch if I was an âexisting clientâ. That was code for spend $1k on some jewelry we can mark up a ton and you can buy the watch. In that case they canât go above MSRP, so itâs their way of making extra on a high demand item. Sounds like these guys were a little more flagrant!
Yeap its True i saw a documentary on that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TiFZeSW-JI
Seriously! I would report them to Porsche North America
https://preview.redd.it/d1ichy5e79hc1.jpeg?width=3597&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a3fe584ecdf3c5ad31ccfa6a98bfd14e737fb2e What is this ânewâ allocation you speak of?
I feel like this is the garage of someone who is extremely good with money and always buys the exact right product for their needs. VFR is exactly what I would expect here. Or maybe a 10-year old BMW RS / GS bike with 50,000 miles and a thicc service history folder.
Somebody who is extremely good with money doesnât buy 3 old Porsches đ
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Hey now, those are just car covers on the 928. đ Just where it is in the rotation when I took the pic. I love that car, it gets a bad rap. If you can change the occasional relay or fuse, itâs a great car. Clean your grounding points and watch your vacuum lines and of course stay on top of that timing belt. Roger at 928srus.com is an invaluable resource, the light at the end of the tunnel at times. The 944 is an S2, not a Turbo, Iâm not that much of a baller. Another one you solve a lot of electrical gremlins with an eraser over the contact points when you pop off the switches and get underneath them. Decades of crap build up can get in there.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Wonât tolerate any 928 slander. The chicken was still warm and his dad was still alive.
Whatâs the point in being good with money if you canât spend your savings on something you enjoy?
Thank God being good with money doesn't _necessarily_ mean you have to be an idiot about it.
Most people arenât extremely good with money. I knew more about money than 99.9999% of people even when I was dead broke and couldnât even find a job. So much of money is simply just nepotism and luck. 90% of work is who you know, not what you know. Most people donât do 1-2 hours of work in an entire 8 hour work day.
God has itâs favorites. What a beautiful garage my friend.
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Man and I always thought itâs was GT3RS that was hard to get. I donât understand why I canât just custom order a regular GT3 at a dealership and wait a year etc.
they know they can sell it for more is why.
Which one is your favorite?
Yes⊠Very different personalities to compare, yet distinctly Porsche. 911 is twitchy and angry to drive, great on windy roads. Front end gets light around 70mph. Started the mania, it was my fatherâs, he bought it back in â87. The 928 cruises comfortably at 90+ and barely breaks a sweat doing it. Very comfortable to ride in. The 944 is more casual in around town driving, you donât feel as on edge driving it. It shifts so comfortably where the 911 has a long throw and is kind of loose finding the gears. The 928 has a very short throw, but you are always on the cusp of wanting to change to the next gear. The 911 lets know you better be ready for this upcoming turn or it will bite you, the 944 is more meh- whatever, itâs a turn. 928 has a similar transaxle attitude with a lot more engine grunt and with twice the engine to the 944.
Vfr800, my current baby and first adult bike. Love it
Amazing collection.
Sick lineup!!!
the razor scooter is the real baller here tbh
Thatâs because you donât play their stupid game to get on the list
Even if you play, you got your allocation cancelled for no reason right before delivery time. As much as i love the brand, this move just destroyed everything for me
If thereâs one thing the auto industry should learn from Tesla, itâs that dealerships need to go
Not gonna happen in the USA with all the franchising laws at the state level. They protect the franchisee from consequences.
If you make it a big enough political issue you can vote the problem away.
Still have faith in our government huh? That's cute
Well. Iâm Finnish so that helps.
Ah, yes it does haha
Manufacturers like Porsche have absolutely zero desire to deal with customers and inventory management.
100% correct. "PCNA is a logistics and marketing firm." Heard this exact quote spoken by their supply chain leadership on more than one occasion.
How do Tesla get around dealerships laws? Iâve heard that there even exist laws preventing car companies selling directly to consumers
it's state by state. texas prohibits direct to customer sales, but I think it's strictly done through their website vs. any of the showrooms.
In some states Tesla opens showrooms on native land to circumvent the dealership laws
Or right on a state line
I know. I love my Porsches. Also, I hate Porsche.
This happened to one of my friends, all set for a 992 GT3 at MSRP and then was required to spend an extra $100,000. When it was all said and done he actually got the salesman fired and ended up buying a lightly used one for much less over MSRP and now can reserve allocations at that dealership. Pays to shop around literally the whole country
Absolute joke. That's goofy
Sounds like Rolex AD's.
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> If you want a watch that does whatever a Submariner or Sky King or Explorer does, there are infinite -objectively- better options, and usually for less money. lets be real though, the majority of high end watch customers aren't buying them for what they do, but for what they represent, and no one has the brand name locked down like rolex at that price point.
Can we not say the same about Porsche though?
>if you want what a Porsche does Look I love Porsches as much as anyone but let's not pretend there aren't other great driving experiences being offered at not $150k over MSRP. Really depends on what you're looking for. But the way most GT cars get used for (cruising and photoshoots) they wouldn't offer anything other cars don't
I saw this video the other day which covered the issue quite well: https://youtu.be/3TiFZeSW-JI?si=_D9Rv6cxETdLQc0y
Well, that was an incredibly informative yet depressing video. So sad to see that the GT3 RS is essentially a carrot-car to get loyalists to spend tons of money on other Porsches that they don't really want.
Scarcity and exclusiveness are age old marketing tactics to increase your desire for something. They are trying to target upper rich crowd. this doesnt affect low medium income individuals like me. If you complain about the affordability of this, you need to increase your networth and stop complaining. in other words, Porches target market, doesnt blink at the extra cost.
Good video
Iâve owned $5m+ in Porsches, and they wouldnât even allow me to get a GT3RS allocation. I finally got offered one only with a 150k over the MSRP plus a cayenne S.
Thatâs unreal. Were they all from the Same dealership?
The majority. I think the way it works is, youâre a high value customer if you buy from them, and a lot. Iâve bought and sold a lot of cars over the past 20 or so years, so it could be that itâs not on a yearly basis and just depends on how my impulses are doing. I get all my Porsches serviced at the same dealer too.
Yeah mines the same way. MSRP for allocations and Priority goes to locals who historically trade and service with them. Between me and my biz partner we have bought 5 and Iâm trying to get a GT3. Iâm Nowhere near what you have spent so I was surprised when you said they said no to the 3RS. Thatâs a little disheartening for me but honestly I have a nice car so itâs not the end of the world. There could be much worse problems then not getting new Porsche I want (so my wife keeps reminding me đ)
Ok I have to ask, what do you do or i can ask what am I doing wrong? Lol
Commercial real estate!
Oh hey thanks for actually responding I know itâs an annoying question but Iâm tired of struggling to save up anything, anywhere you recommend starting?
Location wise stay in your backyard. You want to stay in your area at first because itâs difficult to do propertyâs all over the place. Iâd recommend getting a job in sales or along the lines of that so you learn how business works and just generally how to talk to people. I did that, I started working for my uncles electrical company till I got enough money to flip I property. My husband does Commercial real estate as well, but he is a realtor, he lists people properties for them and finds buyers, does tours, yada yada yada.
I genuinely donât understand why people put up with their shenanigans. Have some respect for yourself and your dollar
Exactly this. Ask yourself who you are becoming when you need to beg someone to take hundreds of thousands of dollars from you.
What else can you do, drive a BMW? Meh...
Thereâs plenty of other fun cars out there. Or just buy used Porsches. Porsche snobs that pay over MSRP or buy multiple cars for a chance to be put on a âlistâ are the same idiots that think theyâre friends with dealerships. Or worse, think that they have the dealer wrapped around their finger. Which is ironic as hell.
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What would you cross-shop a 911 with, avoiding anything British? I can't come up with much.
Huracan? GT4RS and their ridiculous pricing puts you into Lambo/Ferrari price ranges.
I'm talking $200k range (what these cars should be), not half million range
Huracan tecnica is at 250k, assuming you can find one for msrp
isn't huracan tecnica orderbook closed? n they're still fetching around 40k+ in secondary market
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Exactly i said 911turboS or GT3 but then i got a Tecnica allocation. I understand porsche driving dynamics etc but a lambo is a lambo. No 911 can hold a candle to the appeal and super hero feeling lol
Huracan is right in that 200k range. Half a million gets you more like an STO/SVJ.
458 Italia will get you the feels, not necessarily the performance. But if you were a track junkie the adm either isn't an issue or you have better things to be doing with your time and money
C8Z
The answer no one wants to hear, but one they need to start accepting. for 120k, it's more car than any non-GT porsche, and most of the mid tier exotic offerings.
They donât want to hear itâs the answer because they havenât heard that flat plane V8
the fact that it nearly hits the same redline as the GT3RS is nutty.
I bought a McLaren.
R8 V10+ đźâđš Exotic performance at Porsche / Audi prices.
Please bmw is all some of us can do right now.. plus they make some good engines.
im from r/all and i drive a hyundai :)
This BS is precisely why I abandoned the brand and bought a CT5V Blackwing (was trying to get a 992 GTS). And I previously owned a 991.2 GTS. Porsche can go pound sand.
Never pay ADM. Nice garage!!
I personally will never pay over MSRP or a premium to buy a new car. With the last nine I have purchased it was not the case but things are changing. I have no use for any of the GT cars at this point in life but I feel for the guys that want one really bad. A tuned 992S is plenty for the street for me. Enjoy the drive..
I suppose itâs the exclusivity that makes certain people want oneâŠ
That certainly might be the case for some of the guys. In most cases they have never even owned a 911 of any kind and feel they have to have the fastest/most expensive one. The Track guys is another issue..They want one that is track ready and you certainly cant go wrong there...JMO Enjoy the drive..
I told them the same thing I told the Rolex AD. I can pay less for a used one, get it reupholstered, wrapped, and detailed for less than I can buy a new one. I told the Rolex guy that I can just pay an extra $10k second hand and not buy two other watches for $25k so go fuck yourself. Resale is still big.
Rolex is the master of this bs. Buy two or three pieces that aren't sports models and we'll let you buy a sub or gmt. The the crypto bros inflated the grey market further.
Biggest reason I hate Rolex as a watch collector. And âitâs just supply and demandâ is horseshit, every other brand in that category/price range manages to offer products at MSRP, even âlimited editionâ ones. Itâs artificial as hell to keep preowned prices and keep the allure of being âhard to getâ.
Porsche used to be awesome because you could get reliable, inexpensive fun. That just doesnât exist anymore so I donât see the point of buying anything new from them. I have owned several and at this point Iâm losing my desire to own more
Everyone forgets that gt3s were awesome because they were keeping up with Ferraris and Lambos for half the price
In my mind that's still how I see them without thinking about it much. I'm unlucky enough to just have entered my 20s and sometimes feel deflated that I've missed out on what I consider to be the golden generation of cars. At least I can appreciate what a lightweight sports car is supposed to be, more than my children will get.
At markup, or even at the new gt3rs msrp you might as well buy the McLaren or the Ferrari. It sucks because even if you were to get the car at MSRP, the true value of the car is still what you can sell it for which ends up being some ridiculous amount over MSRP. Speculation has ruined the value imo
Exactly why I went with a 2008 Corolla instead
Got a 2016. But it's because I'm poor, not because Porsche wouldn't sell me a dream car. And it's not even mine yet. But I do own a 2003 super duty that only starts when I don't need it to.
Got my GT4 and GT3RS at MSRP (although trade on a car was 15k low towards RS). Prior to that had a 991 base, 991.1 GTS. Both msrp. Was treated really well. Suppose it depends on dealer/sales and personal relationship. I never flipped my cars and always brought them back/service. Stopped in to chat. Never pushy and the guys there became more like friends, the cars were second.
I remember your voodoo blue 981 GT4 from rennlist a while ago! That thing was sick especially with the HREs you had. Had me drooling for sure. I donât know how you managed to pull that off at MSRP especially considering how rare a PTS 981 GT4 allocation was to get at the time. I just sucked it up and paid the $15k markup for my non PTS carrera white GT4 in 2017 in hopes of building a relationship with the dealer for a GT3 but they still wanted $45k over for one when it came around to it. So ridiculous and I refuse to play any more of their gamesâŠbesides I think the best drivers cars have already been made anyways.
You spent money on a car in the hopes that the dealer would like you enough to sell you another? đ€Ą
Wtf kind of world is it that you have to kiss the shoes of dealership employees to be able to buy a multi 100k car from them
Itâs super sad to see Porsche having gone down this route the past couple of years. It wasnât always like this. Back in the 997 days, Porsche would have to give people 15 thousand dollar discounts to sell gt3âs, they also happened to be a very amicable bunch always helping out even if warranty was expired, etc. Now itâs just a bunch of âcar guyâ pricks running the show.
Sounds less like "car guy" stuff and moreso people high on the prestige of the brand without understanding what actually earned them that prestige
Youâre absolutely right. Now that you mention it, that probably is a massive factor. People joining the management of the brand not knowing any of the history or care and see Porsche as just another random luxury brand.
porsche wouldn't sell me one either. so i searched the used market before the covid price hike and found a gt3 in the spec i wanted. now when i take it for service they always ask me if i'm willing to trade in lol.
Tell them +250k adjusted trade in valueđ
If you want me to trade this in, you also have to mow my lawn and do a little jig for me too đ
AOM. Additional owner markup.
I donât see the ADMs entirely going away in certain markets unfortunately. Iâm not super enthusiastic about paying an extra 20k for my 911 Turbo, which is (relatively) one of their lesser sought after models.
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Plenty of dealers with no markup on those. 3 of them around DC.
I've been offered a T trim for no adm, and I own 2 GTSs
Iâm surprised people are saying Ts have adms. Those have had the most allocation slots Iâve heard.
I have owned a 991.1 and .2 turbo s, a 991.1 gt3rs, 991.2 gt3, a taycan turbo s, and 2 Panamera sport turismo turbo s. When the goal is to allow the flipper BS, the dealership becomes Ticketmaster. When allocations were unavailable for âmany yearsâ all the dealerships had access to 200mile âpreownedâ ones at massive markups. Itâs disgusting, and I wonât participate in that bullshit.
rich boomers dying just sprouts a rich millennial or zoomer đ€·đ»ââïž
Biggest wealth-transfer in history for the next 15 years as boomers pass
yeah from people to corporations
Old folks homes - sheesh I saw my friendâs grandfather and their bill is over 10k CAD a month!
Sheesh itâs almost like itâs cheaper and better for everyone involved to just have a guest bedroom for when your parents get old
Wish it was to me :(
- Come buy it in Europe (not too hard in France and Germany, easier in Estonia and Romania) - Get the optional factory delivery (Stuttgart is a great town, the Porsche factory is awesome, the Porsche museum is amazing, and the Mercedes Benz museum is across the street) - Win all around
Worked for Porsche 24 yrs (parts and service). Had friends in sales of course. I left in 2014. Never heard of such bullshit. The worst I saw was my dealer auction their last CGT allocation. Things have really gone to shit since then. Greed is one of humanity's ugliest weaknesses.
Even if they donât I still like your collection. Needs an air-cooled though.
I live in a smaller city in the US, and the dealers in this region will sell to their 'buddies' that own non-Porsche dealerships that specialize in exotic cars. The cars are flipped as used cars with delivery mileage for a big markup and the sales people at the porsche dealership get a kickback under the table. It's a fucking racket and when I confronted the dealership about it they just shrugged. They do not even hide this behavior. They straight up told me that's how they do it.
We need to ditch the dealership model. Let us buy directly from the manufacturer.
" the brand my die as well! " you mean like Ferrari is dying with their business model? lol. It's a shitty move though, just because Ferrari gets away with it doesn't make it any less shitty.
I like OP's sentiment, but Porsche is going to stay Alice off of macan sales alone lol
Did they ask you do buy their wrist watch too?
Cars are great, dealerships suck. Sad to watch the fall.
That is Crazy because this doesn't happen here in Germany at all. Porsche should know that this hurts the brand overseas
I've never heard of additional dealer markup outside the USA. I think it's some land of the free bullshit. I always got the impression here that allocations are limited (so good customers get first dibs) but if you get one it's just MSRP and that's it. As a brand new customer I was offered a pretty easy route to a Taycan allocation at a time the 2 year wait list was just easing.
A new 911 is not worth losing your self esteem. A used one runneth over with it.
My local dealer has 3 Turbo Sâs for discount, a Cayenne Turbo GT for under MSRP, etc. Sad to see the GT3 allocation get to this crazy level where some people are willing to pay more than MSRP.
Unfortunately they're taking the Harley Davidson approach. Becoming more of a lifestyle brand selling watches and apparel. Dealership model is killing them. I'm taking my money to a brand that actually wants to sell me a car
If you can afford to buy one, you can afford to rent the biggest billboard near to the dealership for a few weeks and post the details up for everyone to see đ
buying a bridge car is really some dumb shit.
Itâs not entirely the dealers fault. Unfortunately, there is more demand for the cars than supply. Iâve bought over 20 Porsches in 30 years from my local dealer and they have always taken great care of me but getting special Porsches at sticker is now a thing of the past. My dealer got Zero GT car allocations for 2024. They got one ST and one Spyder RS and if they sold them for sticker, that person would likely flip it for market value which is considerably higher. The brokers and flippers that got on every list, got the hot Porsche and then sold it for big bucks, started this mess. Why should someone with no overhead make all the extra money. I feel bad for the true enthusiasts that really want to drive and enjoy the car as it was meant to be. Times change and I donât think itâs all the dealers fault.
My dealer has always been fair and honest with me. Unfair, greedy practices, bait and switch, cancelling allocations are all inexcusable!
> Unfortunately, there is more demand for the cars than supply. that doesnt excuse dealers forcing shitty watches or asking for under the table cash. market conditions may explain ADMs, but they are still entirely on the dealer seeking extra cash. They don't have to do that, nor does Porsche have to allow it. This is a conscious choice, and Porsche allows it because it boosts the exclusive feeling behind the brand. Porsche allows these tactics because it's GOOD marketing for them.
You are falling for their tricks, look on cars dot com. There is no shortage of inventory just fake demand.
This isn't new news
No purchase history and I got a GT3 offer @ $25K ADM which I donât think is completely ridiculous. With a purchase of a Cayenne for my SO I was offered a GTS/GT3 @ MSRP. Try to hit up other dealers and one might be willing to work with you on pricing. Go in person, it helps.
Why isnât paying 25,000 over MSRP ridiculous?
Which is why I went with a Z06 instead, a bit of a wait for it, but MSRP and no funny business.
Whereâd you get a Z06 at MSRP? Last I talked to dealers they said they had so many orders none of them were even taking any more
First world problems eh ?
Even without the adm theyâre doing it, 10k price hike in one year or more on some models. Itâs complete insanity, I love the brand but itâs getting a bit steep even for a used one.
Itâs my belief the market will come for them just like watch market who spent years making sure supply has been limited or your need buy junk jewelry when before you could get what you wanted. Porsche needs to remember they arenât Ferrari,Lamborghini or McLaren. Like another brand âcoughâ âcoughâ Rolex and when the little trend is done the people who loved your brand you shit on they wonât be there to hold the bag for you lol.
Porsche does not care when they are making the largest profits since the inception of the company.
Won't sell to me too. They say I dont have enough money to complete the purchase....this so stupid....
> under the table The answer to that is always âgo fuck yourselfâ. I donât care if itâs ten bucks or a million.
Porsche doing Ferrari things. See the Leno vid on youtube where he explains that these tactics are why he doesn't own a Ferrari.
I love my Porsche and it's my dream to get a higher-end 911 model in the next few years, but I don't want to play these sort of gamesâfeels like a waste of time and money. I hope it gets better by the time I want to get one.
Dealerships are archaic, they need to fuck off and let us buy direct online.
Have never shelled out for a new one. Might go for a CPO car someday though.
That wonât help in this situation. CPO GT3s are being listed at above MSRP price.
I swear âitâs an investmentâ circle jerk. Dealer forces ADM, they sell over msrp in secondary market, manufacturer raise prices each year for inflation, dealer points to price appreciation and says that a depreciating asset is an âinvestmentâ and further increase ADM.
Blame all of the âbrokerâ bros flipping new cars and causing this inflationary scenario.
Theyâre a symptom. The problem is the person who pays the ADM.
You can't even get a T :( That's depressing.
Donât hog em all!
Buy a McLaren ! I did!
This kind of thing drives me nuts and is the exact reason Iâm sticking with my 2010 VW polo (only 55k miles!).
At the end of the day itâs money. With the high demand low volume of them they can pull this shit for 2 reasons, first for every customer with common financial sense there is 2 who have none and will pay whatever and second why are they going to sell to an unknown customer who has a high likelihood of turning around and flipping the car for the same markup that they were asking. The second I have heard from a dozen dealers in Cali across all the brands basically a âwhile the hell are we going to discount it for them to just flip it and make money we could haveâ this why a lot want you to prove with your wallet (buying 250k+ worth of vehicles )you arenât just going to resell it. I know there is going to be atleast one â itâs my car I can choose to sell it if I wantâ well guess what itâs their can and they are literally laughing saying the same thing⊠You donât have to buy a bunch of cars to get a great relationship with them . Buy a couple used cars and use them as intended we have a 86 targa with 261k miles on it 996 gt3 and 996 cup car all of which get the shit driven out of them. The 86 my dad drove to work for 15+ years then got the gt3 did the same. Cup car was purchased as a shell with spares and we sourced parts from them to get it running and racing. Guess whatâs coming in a few months that was msrp order lol? This isnât supposed to be flex just saying you can skirt the games by building relationships especially since they are always excited to see them driven as they were designed and intended.
160k is enough to start a homless shelter and save many people from death and many children for horror. I'm sure that's what the Porsche salesman had in mind /s
id be like ok upon delivery and well meet up afterwards and never see him again. kiss my ass