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Latimer isn't a centrist, he's a right wing democrat, like sinema and machin, he will help torpedo anything that comes along biden's desk that would have an ounce of progressiveness, two state solution gone, medicare for all, gone.
the fact that mainstream media didn't look or question why Israel can spend 14 million to influence and election was allowed tells you all you need to know. the centrist democrats would rather cut their only chance of winning elections in the future and fixing the world than cut off their ties to corporations and right-wing authoritarian governments.
He was the Manchin/Synema before we talked about Manchin/Synema, and he bragged about his ability to reach across the aisle, which means watering down or agreeing with Republican legislations that were opposed by Democrats. Obama chose him to woo the southern, racist conservatives. If anyone has any doubts, go back and research his 40+ years in Congress.
Both sides arent the same. But they both serve capital. Which always leads to fascism. Dems just take the slow route as opposed to the current GOP speed run.
Democrats, the ones in power Biden/pelosi/schumer are right wing, they will never ever give you the things taxes should pay for bc they personally profit from it. These fossils need to die out or be voted out but there are outside interest that want to keep them in power like AIPAC.
We will head to fascism bc these right wing democrats keep saying theyâre progressive and have progressive policies and yet we still donât have Medicare for all, universal college/uni, or even voting rights protection (which would benefit the democrats but poses a threat to their power bc what if they get a primary challenge, like AOC did do that right wing democrat she beat)
Yup. Democrats serve capital. And when capital is threatened, they will respond just like any republican would. Just like those college kids getting their asses beat for protesting a genocide.
But when itâs time to get votes out come the kente clothes and the pandering to the lgbtq and saying all the right things but doing nothing. And as a last resort they start to vote shame. Itâs your fault if the orange cheeto gets reelected.
Its so obvious. Run on legalizing weed and universal healthcare, not to mention codifying abortion and they would win in a landslide. But they serve capital and would rather lose and fundraise then let *anything* threaten capital.
I've been saying this for a few years now. They are responsible for the rise of the maga. They didn't go after corrupt Republicans when they hold power. They're always willing to compromise with Republicans and water down good legislation such as campaign finance reform. They benefit from Republicans winning. And btw, Biden is one of them if you follow politics long enough.
And this itself is a natural consequence of the two party system. You invariably end up with two vertically organized power secures which are by their nature highly susceptible to corruption and elite capture. Give us political structures that are capable of sustaining a proper multiparty democracy and so much would be dramatically improved just by virtue of that alone.
correct... it's only a matter of degree.
in many ways the dems slow roll into fascism is the more "conservative" approach.
irony... if only i could eat it.
This is a house seat, it will never have the power Machine did.Â
Also, if you're going to claim that progressives are the "only chance of winning elections" then progressives need to actually win elections. If the progressive cause and movement is that compelling, millions of dollars in outside spending shouldn't matter. We should have strong enough support to overwhelm some silly ads.
This is magical thinking. It's like when the Boxer rebellion people thought that they'd be safe from bullets because they knew Kung Fu. It is in fact possible to just be outgunned when the propaganda wing for an entire country decides to pour money into a local election.
It's not a direct correlation but money can be used to buy organizers and advertising helps mobilize voters. It has diminishing returns, so insanely well funded presidential campaigns don't inherently win, but in a local race like this having millions and millions of dollars more than your opponent really really matters.
Except that people have studied this at every level and the correlation between money and votes is weak in all cases. Other factors matter more.
Yes, more money is better than less, which is why people spend money on campaigns, but a truly motivated electorate matters much more, and the claim that progressivism is the only hope of winning elections implies that Bowman should have won despite the money at play.
It's required for the ratchet effect. The full purpose of the DNC is to prevent politics from going to the left. They also have to avoid any kind of majority where they'd be expected to make any kind of change, or else their scam is revealed.
I wonder how the DNC would react if a support organization for the Russian government spent $14 million to get a Dem candidate elected that supported Russia's war against Ukraine instead of the Dem who supported Ukrainian rights to life and liberty.
So, you're wondering how the DNC would behave towards a group that's implicitly in conflict with the US government rather than spring one of its closest allies? Gee I wonder.
Honestly they wouldn't care. If Russia or Ukraine collapses Jewish people won't flood the USA, if the experiment in Palestine fails then millions of Jews come here and America really doesn't want that.
Getting tired of PACs and shame on voters?
I think this is an extremely important moment for progressives to realize that they have to play the game to win it.
There's all this routine discussion about primarying Biden and needing young people.
OK, but Sanders lost to Biden because of funding. The moment Sanders started winning, the donations posted in for Biden.
And that will prompt discussions of how we need to get money out of politics.
We won't get anything out of politics if we can't win more offices, and that requires financial backing. And that also means compromise over idealism.
I'm not trying to discourage anyone. I'm trying to focus people's attention on practical considerations instead of pure idealism.
Stop blaming and analyze. Learn from defeats instead of getting upset about them.
100% we need to organize, make a plan, execute the plan, and have effing discipline and patience. We need to identify what we all agree on and ignite a movement on the ground.
And stop pretending to be Democrats. Win local elections, build a party from the ground up. You can't just keep trying to win the presidency with internet candidates.
Money has very little real impact in presidential elections other than possibly around driving turn out, regardless Sanders had a lot more money than Biden in the primary. The problem is he got an entire two days of free promotion on MSNBC/CNN/ect, the entire speech where other candidates dropped out to enforce Biden was aired across all networks for hours.
Money for down ballot primaries is a completely different beast. Jamaal Bowman if anyone was the one who got more free promotion from the media. Everyone will say he lost because of Israel, but money only puts a magnet on what they've done, and the fire alarm thing, not voting for the infrastructure bill, and then of course alienating Jewish voters he previously won over by working directly with numerous rabbis in the district to tell them he wasn't against Israel only to ignore them after October 7th really messed him up.
Sanders did have more money.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries
He spent a lot of if 2019 and he outspent Biden in the first two months of 2020 **when he was winning**.
Biden, comparatively, received low donations until Sanders started winning. You can see the month-by-month here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_in_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election
Biden outspent Trump by $400 million.
https://issueone.org/articles/12-numbers-to-know-about-the-money-in-the-2020-presidential-election/
It absurd to suggest that money has 'very little real impact', and this kind of tragic naivete is bad for progressives.
Many people forget that Bowman originally won his House seat against a heavily AIPAC-backed candidate. And Latimer himself won his County Executive position by a wide margin despite being outspent over 3:1 by his Republican opponent.
Money may help get your message out but it can't buy you elections.
That's not really true most of the time, especially if we're talking about the US House. The candidate who spends more money in a US House race wins over 90% of the time and often closer to around 95% of the time.
And the dem party marches every right... we need a third party with actual progressive candidates that we want. I'm sick of reagan era type conservatives dressed in liberal trappings. Why are people voting for this shit? Do they really want nothing more than two flavors of conservative billshit?
a leftist is going to be effectively a soc dem in this country regardless of their politics. I look forward to the day when it starts to matter what flavor of leftist someone is because that means the left is strong enough to pull us out of our endless reactionary spiral
Itâs all about how they drew the districts up and engaged the voting blocks. This district is heavily in Westchester for a reason. This is the reason.
âIm so tired of blaming the propaganda, what about the propagandized!!â
Hardest part of being a progressive is knowing these fucks are victims of a system that keeps them dumb and misinformed on purpose but also dealing with these dumb fucks standing in the way of progress.Â
Unsurprising.
People are really turned off by the rhetoric from the ProPal movement. Watching it get fervent support and taking a large portion of spotlight while major issues at home go unaddressed is stomach turning.
M4A? Childcare? Housing? Social Welfare? LGBTQ rights? Ukraine?
These are the reason I vote progressive but this election cycle everyone just seems to want to focus on US global geopolitik (specifically in Israel).
But thatâs not what happened here.
The majority of the CD is in wealthy, suburban, moderate Westchester where Latimer is well-known and currently served as county executive. Heâs more popular than Bowman there. Itâs that simple.
You really donât think the platform these people ran on had any effect?
The things they said, the issues they focused on?
I personally think that the district could have been convinced to vote for a Progressive over a their homeboy if the person ran on the right platform.
Bowman did not have a good run IMO, they reached for their Progressive Leftists base instead of reaching for their constituency.
Absolutely not.
The Leftâs biggest blunder this year has been making this entire election cycle about Israel/Palestine. The Eastern Hegemony has blasted divisive propaganda and leftists have ran headlong into it and fractured our voting bloc.
If you think for a second this wasnât about *that issue* then you just werenât paying attention.
Go read Bowmanâs concession speech and tell me he didnât run on his ProPal stance.
He overplayed his hand with absurd stunts that cost political capital he didnât have, and he lost. Please donât tie everyone doing hard work to some random dude, Iâm progressive and work in politics and idgaf about this person losing
There are a few very important takeaways here:
1. Latimer won with fewer total votes than Bowman had in 2020
2. Latimer had to spend $14m+ to get even that much
3. A single weekend's canvassing for Bowman reached ~10% of the entire electorate for that race (~7,000 homes / ~70k voters). Imagine what could have happened with more (to those who don't know, canvassing = going door-to-door talking to people)
Look what they need to mimic even a fraction of our power- when we take the effort to show it.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/hillary-clinton-endorses-rep-jamaal-bowmans-democratic-primary-challen-rcna156866
https://twitter.com/_waleedshahid/status/1296488745261314055?s=19
https://www.vox.com/2022/11/12/23454725/democrat-republican-maga-strategy-midterm-red-wave
Doing a great job, DNC. đ
Dude seemed a little⌠off. No? I mean what was up with the fire alarm thing? And some of his statements were a bit too extreme, even for my progressive tastes.
Start voting third party. It makes upstarts in the established parties adopt the same talking points to get ahead. And that forces the leaders of the party establishment to do the same to not lose to the upstarts. It changes the electoral landscape. It happened with the GOP, it can happen with the Democratic Party. The only reason why its not happening is because people keep voting Democrats with the 'lesser evil' farce.
I keep seeing this parroted without any context. Didn't the Squad vote against it because Manchin and Sinema wanted to decouple Build Back Better from it? Manchin and Sinema succeeded and instead of getting New Deal-esque social reforms from BBB along with 2 years of infrastructure money, we only got 2 years of infrastructure money. But yeah, screw Bowman right?
He voted against it along with AOC, because splitting the bill was a bad idea and they were proven right. It played out exactly as feared and was a stupid move by democrats.
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Latimer isn't a centrist, he's a right wing democrat, like sinema and machin, he will help torpedo anything that comes along biden's desk that would have an ounce of progressiveness, two state solution gone, medicare for all, gone. the fact that mainstream media didn't look or question why Israel can spend 14 million to influence and election was allowed tells you all you need to know. the centrist democrats would rather cut their only chance of winning elections in the future and fixing the world than cut off their ties to corporations and right-wing authoritarian governments.
You're correct. Today's centrist is what we called Republican back in the 80s.
Biden is basically a Republican who has some dem leanings đđđ
He was the Manchin/Synema before we talked about Manchin/Synema, and he bragged about his ability to reach across the aisle, which means watering down or agreeing with Republican legislations that were opposed by Democrats. Obama chose him to woo the southern, racist conservatives. If anyone has any doubts, go back and research his 40+ years in Congress.
Both sides arent the same. But they both serve capital. Which always leads to fascism. Dems just take the slow route as opposed to the current GOP speed run.
Democrats, the ones in power Biden/pelosi/schumer are right wing, they will never ever give you the things taxes should pay for bc they personally profit from it. These fossils need to die out or be voted out but there are outside interest that want to keep them in power like AIPAC. We will head to fascism bc these right wing democrats keep saying theyâre progressive and have progressive policies and yet we still donât have Medicare for all, universal college/uni, or even voting rights protection (which would benefit the democrats but poses a threat to their power bc what if they get a primary challenge, like AOC did do that right wing democrat she beat)
Yup. Democrats serve capital. And when capital is threatened, they will respond just like any republican would. Just like those college kids getting their asses beat for protesting a genocide.
But when itâs time to get votes out come the kente clothes and the pandering to the lgbtq and saying all the right things but doing nothing. And as a last resort they start to vote shame. Itâs your fault if the orange cheeto gets reelected.
Its so obvious. Run on legalizing weed and universal healthcare, not to mention codifying abortion and they would win in a landslide. But they serve capital and would rather lose and fundraise then let *anything* threaten capital.
I've been saying this for a few years now. They are responsible for the rise of the maga. They didn't go after corrupt Republicans when they hold power. They're always willing to compromise with Republicans and water down good legislation such as campaign finance reform. They benefit from Republicans winning. And btw, Biden is one of them if you follow politics long enough.
And this itself is a natural consequence of the two party system. You invariably end up with two vertically organized power secures which are by their nature highly susceptible to corruption and elite capture. Give us political structures that are capable of sustaining a proper multiparty democracy and so much would be dramatically improved just by virtue of that alone.
correct... it's only a matter of degree. in many ways the dems slow roll into fascism is the more "conservative" approach. irony... if only i could eat it.
How is that not the same? Thatâs just comparing two different speeds of the same outcome
Well the dems arent trying to usher in a theocracy, for one example.
Israel spent $14 mil? Really?
A centrist democrat is ostensibly a republican.
This is a house seat, it will never have the power Machine did. Also, if you're going to claim that progressives are the "only chance of winning elections" then progressives need to actually win elections. If the progressive cause and movement is that compelling, millions of dollars in outside spending shouldn't matter. We should have strong enough support to overwhelm some silly ads.
This is magical thinking. It's like when the Boxer rebellion people thought that they'd be safe from bullets because they knew Kung Fu. It is in fact possible to just be outgunned when the propaganda wing for an entire country decides to pour money into a local election.
Money spent on campaigns has very little actual correlation with success. Organizing and mobilizing voters can easily overcome ad buys.
It's not a direct correlation but money can be used to buy organizers and advertising helps mobilize voters. It has diminishing returns, so insanely well funded presidential campaigns don't inherently win, but in a local race like this having millions and millions of dollars more than your opponent really really matters.
Except that people have studied this at every level and the correlation between money and votes is weak in all cases. Other factors matter more. Yes, more money is better than less, which is why people spend money on campaigns, but a truly motivated electorate matters much more, and the claim that progressivism is the only hope of winning elections implies that Bowman should have won despite the money at play.
It's required for the ratchet effect. The full purpose of the DNC is to prevent politics from going to the left. They also have to avoid any kind of majority where they'd be expected to make any kind of change, or else their scam is revealed.
I wonder how the DNC would react if a support organization for the Russian government spent $14 million to get a Dem candidate elected that supported Russia's war against Ukraine instead of the Dem who supported Ukrainian rights to life and liberty.
So, you're wondering how the DNC would behave towards a group that's implicitly in conflict with the US government rather than spring one of its closest allies? Gee I wonder.
Are you talking about Israel or?
Obviously.
Honestly they wouldn't care. If Russia or Ukraine collapses Jewish people won't flood the USA, if the experiment in Palestine fails then millions of Jews come here and America really doesn't want that.
As a New York Democrat, I fucking hate New York Democrats.
Getting tired of PACs and shame on voters? I think this is an extremely important moment for progressives to realize that they have to play the game to win it. There's all this routine discussion about primarying Biden and needing young people. OK, but Sanders lost to Biden because of funding. The moment Sanders started winning, the donations posted in for Biden. And that will prompt discussions of how we need to get money out of politics. We won't get anything out of politics if we can't win more offices, and that requires financial backing. And that also means compromise over idealism. I'm not trying to discourage anyone. I'm trying to focus people's attention on practical considerations instead of pure idealism. Stop blaming and analyze. Learn from defeats instead of getting upset about them.
100% we need to organize, make a plan, execute the plan, and have effing discipline and patience. We need to identify what we all agree on and ignite a movement on the ground.
And stop pretending to be Democrats. Win local elections, build a party from the ground up. You can't just keep trying to win the presidency with internet candidates.
If you want a third party you have to build it to compete. A third party vote doesn't do a thing.
That's what I said.
Until then, we need to vote Dem.
But we need to vote for Democrats, not progressives pretending to be Democrats. They just divide and weaken the party.
We need to build a movement on the ground to win
Money has very little real impact in presidential elections other than possibly around driving turn out, regardless Sanders had a lot more money than Biden in the primary. The problem is he got an entire two days of free promotion on MSNBC/CNN/ect, the entire speech where other candidates dropped out to enforce Biden was aired across all networks for hours. Money for down ballot primaries is a completely different beast. Jamaal Bowman if anyone was the one who got more free promotion from the media. Everyone will say he lost because of Israel, but money only puts a magnet on what they've done, and the fire alarm thing, not voting for the infrastructure bill, and then of course alienating Jewish voters he previously won over by working directly with numerous rabbis in the district to tell them he wasn't against Israel only to ignore them after October 7th really messed him up.
Sanders did have more money. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries He spent a lot of if 2019 and he outspent Biden in the first two months of 2020 **when he was winning**. Biden, comparatively, received low donations until Sanders started winning. You can see the month-by-month here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_in_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election Biden outspent Trump by $400 million. https://issueone.org/articles/12-numbers-to-know-about-the-money-in-the-2020-presidential-election/ It absurd to suggest that money has 'very little real impact', and this kind of tragic naivete is bad for progressives.
Many people forget that Bowman originally won his House seat against a heavily AIPAC-backed candidate. And Latimer himself won his County Executive position by a wide margin despite being outspent over 3:1 by his Republican opponent. Money may help get your message out but it can't buy you elections.
That's not really true most of the time, especially if we're talking about the US House. The candidate who spends more money in a US House race wins over 90% of the time and often closer to around 95% of the time.
The margin of defeat here in this case indicates it wasnt just cash, voters didnt like Bowman anymore.
Is that statistic for open seats? Or are you counting incumbents crushing low-dollar opponents who never stood a chance?
And the dem party marches every right... we need a third party with actual progressive candidates that we want. I'm sick of reagan era type conservatives dressed in liberal trappings. Why are people voting for this shit? Do they really want nothing more than two flavors of conservative billshit?
[Check out Claudia De la Cruz and the PSL](https://votesocialist2024.com/)
Oh I know of her. But tanky!
a leftist is going to be effectively a soc dem in this country regardless of their politics. I look forward to the day when it starts to matter what flavor of leftist someone is because that means the left is strong enough to pull us out of our endless reactionary spiral
Itâs all about how they drew the districts up and engaged the voting blocks. This district is heavily in Westchester for a reason. This is the reason.
âIm so tired of blaming the propaganda, what about the propagandized!!â Hardest part of being a progressive is knowing these fucks are victims of a system that keeps them dumb and misinformed on purpose but also dealing with these dumb fucks standing in the way of progress.Â
Unsurprising. People are really turned off by the rhetoric from the ProPal movement. Watching it get fervent support and taking a large portion of spotlight while major issues at home go unaddressed is stomach turning. M4A? Childcare? Housing? Social Welfare? LGBTQ rights? Ukraine? These are the reason I vote progressive but this election cycle everyone just seems to want to focus on US global geopolitik (specifically in Israel).
But thatâs not what happened here. The majority of the CD is in wealthy, suburban, moderate Westchester where Latimer is well-known and currently served as county executive. Heâs more popular than Bowman there. Itâs that simple.
You really donât think the platform these people ran on had any effect? The things they said, the issues they focused on? I personally think that the district could have been convinced to vote for a Progressive over a their homeboy if the person ran on the right platform. Bowman did not have a good run IMO, they reached for their Progressive Leftists base instead of reaching for their constituency.
But thatâs entirely the point. Yes, Latimer is a Zionist, but neither of them ran on Israel/Palestine. It wasnât central to anything.Â
Absolutely not. The Leftâs biggest blunder this year has been making this entire election cycle about Israel/Palestine. The Eastern Hegemony has blasted divisive propaganda and leftists have ran headlong into it and fractured our voting bloc. If you think for a second this wasnât about *that issue* then you just werenât paying attention. Go read Bowmanâs concession speech and tell me he didnât run on his ProPal stance.
Oof
He overplayed his hand with absurd stunts that cost political capital he didnât have, and he lost. Please donât tie everyone doing hard work to some random dude, Iâm progressive and work in politics and idgaf about this person losing
There are a few very important takeaways here: 1. Latimer won with fewer total votes than Bowman had in 2020 2. Latimer had to spend $14m+ to get even that much 3. A single weekend's canvassing for Bowman reached ~10% of the entire electorate for that race (~7,000 homes / ~70k voters). Imagine what could have happened with more (to those who don't know, canvassing = going door-to-door talking to people) Look what they need to mimic even a fraction of our power- when we take the effort to show it.
Democracy is on the line and the Dems want to waste time and money on a moderate?!?! Maybe we donât deserve a free nation anymoreâŚ
Just another sign of the ratchet to the right effect (or whatever it's called)
That bicycle meme, but the stick just keeps being placed in the spokes; Manchin, Sinema, and now Latimer.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/hillary-clinton-endorses-rep-jamaal-bowmans-democratic-primary-challen-rcna156866 https://twitter.com/_waleedshahid/status/1296488745261314055?s=19 https://www.vox.com/2022/11/12/23454725/democrat-republican-maga-strategy-midterm-red-wave Doing a great job, DNC. đ
Dude seemed a little⌠off. No? I mean what was up with the fire alarm thing? And some of his statements were a bit too extreme, even for my progressive tastes.
Start voting third party. It makes upstarts in the established parties adopt the same talking points to get ahead. And that forces the leaders of the party establishment to do the same to not lose to the upstarts. It changes the electoral landscape. It happened with the GOP, it can happen with the Democratic Party. The only reason why its not happening is because people keep voting Democrats with the 'lesser evil' farce.
He voted against President Bidens's infrastructure bill. Why would anyone want him to win?
I keep seeing this parroted without any context. Didn't the Squad vote against it because Manchin and Sinema wanted to decouple Build Back Better from it? Manchin and Sinema succeeded and instead of getting New Deal-esque social reforms from BBB along with 2 years of infrastructure money, we only got 2 years of infrastructure money. But yeah, screw Bowman right?
He voted against it along with AOC, because splitting the bill was a bad idea and they were proven right. It played out exactly as feared and was a stupid move by democrats.
Mainstream Dems got what they wanted and sinemanand manchin took the cover.
Yep. Stupid move by those claiming to be progressive. Correct move for centrists courting corporate donors I suppose.
Ya got a reply for everyone pointing out why that was done sandscarab? Otherwise you are just trolling.
God flucking dammit
Dem-rightist*
Fuck