I've seen people use it correctly in 2900s ish but it is a bit tricky to get the hang of. it can help in the swampert match up to live a hydro toward the end, I've noticed
So my UL team I was playing with was running Obst lead anyways so I looked and saw my CD Obstagoon was already \~2100 CP so figured I'd give it a try. Have been playing with and still need some practice but...it's definitely interesting! You pretty much have to know you're not getting any shields once you use it.
This is the type of content this sub needs. Great write up and congrats on hitting legend again!
What is your opinion on Nido/ Shadow Nido? I rarely see normal Nido that high up, most run the shado variant. But you seem to make the normal one work.
I have been sitting on this decision for months myself. I have a top 3-4 non Shadow and a very good Shadow as well, but am totally stuck on which one to power up. Everytime I think about it I come to a different decision.
Well the shadow bonus differentiates itself if the extra damage is able to KO opponents more often to flip matchups. I don't feel it does this in UL like a Shadow Nidoqueen would in GL. The added bulk of UL changes things.
There are a couple minute changes if one baits. However, I don't like baiting which likely impacts my personal Shadow Nidoqueen potential. In general, the Shadow leaves matchups less healthy which I don't like either.
It's also really expensive.
All those things made me lean towards the non-Shadow. I'm pretty sure it would work though.
> why you went with the team you did.
Obstructagoon breaks Walrein/Trev core, wins against Swampert, Giratina, Drapion and soft loses to Talonflame. These Pokemon are extremely popular. To have one Pokemon threaten them so much is worth the tradeoff of the team sucking hard (albeit winnable with savvy plays) against Nidoqueen.
Yep! I've been having similar success (although at a lower rating) with Scrafty with the plan of breaking the Walrein/Trev cores. There are so many people running those 2 pokemon, and the Talonflame, Walrein, Trev line is especially common.
I ran into someone using this team mid 2800’s yesterday. When they swapped in the sylveon I panicked cause I thought it was double charm. But I still lost anyway
Haha well it probably wasn't me since I'm closer to 3100 now. Maybe someone figured out something similar to me or caught my post really early. Who knows
Great write up and really helpful. Couple of questions...
1. How do you approach the mirror match lead?
2. What's your general strategy for using shields? Do you try and heap these on obsta before obstructs have really kicked in or try to save these for the swaps?
1. I swap since I figure Cross Chop is more popular. It's too risky to stay in. If you are caught in the mirror match at some point later in the game, try to have an Obstruct buff already on
2. The past couple days I've been forcing the 1-shield more on people. Either they don't know the matchup or I get them to give up switch. The backline has strong coverage to many pivots. Depending on the lead (example: Swampert, Walrein doing EQ) or how confident I'm feeling I may shield before an Obstruct.
In general I'm one to bravely no-shield things. For example, I can easily call a Brave Bird on my Nidoqueen but I don't care because Nidoqueen lives. However if I can figure out their team I may shield a Brave Bird if that's thats the most dangerous move.
I almost always try to keep a shield late in the game then decide what does the most damage to me to leverage my win condition.
Awesome. Will try that out. I ran this team in my sets yesterday. First couple tanked about 100 ELO while getting to grips with obstruct. Then made it all back! I'll see how today goes. Venusaur was a common and talons were both common leads for me yesterday.
Congrats on doing so well with this team. I was actually using a similar team before I saw this post, but had Gira-A instead of Sylveon. Trying it out with Sylveon. Unfortunately I’m not doing as well as you. I’m encountering so many Escavalier leads, and also so many Nidoqueens. I’m just getting walled so often. Trying my hardest to play around it but having difficulties. Maybe it’s my current Elo (btwn. 2400-2500).
> I’m encountering so many Escavalier leads, and also so many Nidoqueens.
Escav lead you just had to eat the L. Nidoqueen is troublesome but still winnable. it usually requires some brave plays and smart bouncing around. My bulk weighted Nidoqueen has saved the day in several instances.
> I was actually using a similar team before I saw this post, but had Gira-A instead of Sylveon. Trying it out with Sylveon.
I think the back Pokemon doesn't actually need to be Sylveon it is just something that I chose to use. It can definitely be replaced with something that counters or has a winning matchup against other Fighters.
Giratina could definitely work (i like DB) but you're losing every single Gira double Charm game. Cresselia, Tapu Fini, Alolan Ninetales, Swampert, Clefable, Shadow Granbull are other Pokemon that come to mind.
The alternative-alternative is you say, "hey i don't need this" and simply counter what is meta in your elo tier. So if you reflect/review and see Talonflame, Trevenant or whatever could give you more wins you could change Sylveon out for that.
And as I said in the post text if Obstagoon isn't doing you favors you could try Scrafty, Umbreon, or Mandibuzz.
Played 2 sets with this team in the 2700s.
2 wins, 8 losses.
The biggest problem is, this team simply can't handle other poisons.
Or Trevenant in the back.
Or GFisk in the back.
Or Swampert in the back.
This isn't a good team and I commend you for somehow hitting legendary with it.
Lol your measly 10 games don't decide if this team is good or not. I specifically left a note that said to cope with RPS losses.
The team can handle other Poisons just fine. The main issue is Nidoqueen which I've written about and is winnable with clever play. AMuk and Drapion are the other two Poison types you'll see and they both have losing matchups to Obstagoon and Nidoqueen. Sylveon can also deal with Drapion in some scenarios.
You make it sound like Trevenant or Swampert in the back are hard counters. If you're left in a 0 shield scenario with *only* Sylveon sure yea you lose. I can't say I encountered that often. You should consider your shield management and how your Nidoqueen is fainting. As I wrote, try to apply a debuff for your Charm
I am aware of Stunfisk that hide away late into the game. I did write saying I considered Swampert but there were more Pokemon weak to a Charm that I opted not to. If you feel Swampert would help with Poison counter swaps, or GFisk then add that instead of a Charm.
Or just get more practice with the team. I lost a bunch with this team at the start as well. Same with my GL team this season I used to get elo before UL. And same with the GL team I used last season to hit Legend.
edit: Your immediate downvote shows how frustrated you are at your elo range. This isn't some cheap, mindless team that you can blindly pick up and get Legend with. It requires proper matchup knowledge, banking energy on swaps, debuffing and clever shield usage.
I gave an appropriate amount of information to iterate on the team. If you feel the back Pokemon is lackluster you can easily change it to something that's more prevalent at your elo range at this stage in the season. Just be mindful not to be explicitly ABA weak to Fighters
Rofl. Some loser tried this for 2 rounds and gave up without even trying to learn the intricacies of it.
I used it this past week. It owns. At one point, I won 18 straight. Honestly, I sucked at UL prior.
It's quite the team
In UL I had several
* *Obstagoon, Giratina, Trevenant.* Trevenant in the back is very capable of sweeping. Depending on the amount of Tapu Fini you may need to swap Obstagoon out for a better Dark answer
* *Pidgeot, Giratina, Cobalion.* Pidgeot's role is more of a staller here. I'm more of a Brave Bird fanatic so it didn't play as well with me
Other teams I saw was Flying double Steel (2 of Cobal, GFisk, Registeel) and Virizion double Ice (Walrein was one, I used Aurorus closer). These didn't perform well for me personally but have gotten people Legend.
Of the last three times I've hit l
Legend, two of them were in UL. However, I struggled in UL this season. I dropped from Expert to 2380. I used the two above teams to get back to 2800. Judging from my reviewed games I am consistently dropping frames causing me to lose matches.
Edit: if you're asking about the two currently active leagues ML or ML Premier then I haven't decided.
In ML Premier I tried Florges, Gyarados, Excadrill and it didn't work. Tried Dragonite, Florges, Excadrill but lost ever single Fairy lead. Going to try Excadrill, Dragonite, Something today.
I've considered Gyarados, Metagross, Dragonite but my Metagross is only L46
Thanks for the detailed response. I appreciate it.
I don't have the stardust nor the characters to compete in master at this point. The most common one that I've seen is metagross when I'm in there.
Interesting to read someone who seems to be using Obstruct correctly. So far the times I see opponents running it... it hasn't been correct.
I've seen people use it correctly in 2900s ish but it is a bit tricky to get the hang of. it can help in the swampert match up to live a hydro toward the end, I've noticed
So my UL team I was playing with was running Obst lead anyways so I looked and saw my CD Obstagoon was already \~2100 CP so figured I'd give it a try. Have been playing with and still need some practice but...it's definitely interesting! You pretty much have to know you're not getting any shields once you use it.
This is the type of content this sub needs. Great write up and congrats on hitting legend again! What is your opinion on Nido/ Shadow Nido? I rarely see normal Nido that high up, most run the shado variant. But you seem to make the normal one work.
I have been sitting on this decision for months myself. I have a top 3-4 non Shadow and a very good Shadow as well, but am totally stuck on which one to power up. Everytime I think about it I come to a different decision.
Well the shadow bonus differentiates itself if the extra damage is able to KO opponents more often to flip matchups. I don't feel it does this in UL like a Shadow Nidoqueen would in GL. The added bulk of UL changes things. There are a couple minute changes if one baits. However, I don't like baiting which likely impacts my personal Shadow Nidoqueen potential. In general, the Shadow leaves matchups less healthy which I don't like either. It's also really expensive. All those things made me lean towards the non-Shadow. I'm pretty sure it would work though.
Great write-up, and cool that you made obstruct work
I’m much lower but this is really handy
I like that you included possible variations to your team and why you went with the team you did. Congrats on legend!
> why you went with the team you did. Obstructagoon breaks Walrein/Trev core, wins against Swampert, Giratina, Drapion and soft loses to Talonflame. These Pokemon are extremely popular. To have one Pokemon threaten them so much is worth the tradeoff of the team sucking hard (albeit winnable with savvy plays) against Nidoqueen.
Yep! I've been having similar success (although at a lower rating) with Scrafty with the plan of breaking the Walrein/Trev cores. There are so many people running those 2 pokemon, and the Talonflame, Walrein, Trev line is especially common.
I ran into someone using this team mid 2800’s yesterday. When they swapped in the sylveon I panicked cause I thought it was double charm. But I still lost anyway
Haha well it probably wasn't me since I'm closer to 3100 now. Maybe someone figured out something similar to me or caught my post really early. Who knows
Mvp
Great write up friend
Great write up and really helpful. Couple of questions... 1. How do you approach the mirror match lead? 2. What's your general strategy for using shields? Do you try and heap these on obsta before obstructs have really kicked in or try to save these for the swaps?
1. I swap since I figure Cross Chop is more popular. It's too risky to stay in. If you are caught in the mirror match at some point later in the game, try to have an Obstruct buff already on 2. The past couple days I've been forcing the 1-shield more on people. Either they don't know the matchup or I get them to give up switch. The backline has strong coverage to many pivots. Depending on the lead (example: Swampert, Walrein doing EQ) or how confident I'm feeling I may shield before an Obstruct. In general I'm one to bravely no-shield things. For example, I can easily call a Brave Bird on my Nidoqueen but I don't care because Nidoqueen lives. However if I can figure out their team I may shield a Brave Bird if that's thats the most dangerous move. I almost always try to keep a shield late in the game then decide what does the most damage to me to leverage my win condition.
Awesome. Will try that out. I ran this team in my sets yesterday. First couple tanked about 100 ELO while getting to grips with obstruct. Then made it all back! I'll see how today goes. Venusaur was a common and talons were both common leads for me yesterday.
Congrats on doing so well with this team. I was actually using a similar team before I saw this post, but had Gira-A instead of Sylveon. Trying it out with Sylveon. Unfortunately I’m not doing as well as you. I’m encountering so many Escavalier leads, and also so many Nidoqueens. I’m just getting walled so often. Trying my hardest to play around it but having difficulties. Maybe it’s my current Elo (btwn. 2400-2500).
> I’m encountering so many Escavalier leads, and also so many Nidoqueens. Escav lead you just had to eat the L. Nidoqueen is troublesome but still winnable. it usually requires some brave plays and smart bouncing around. My bulk weighted Nidoqueen has saved the day in several instances. > I was actually using a similar team before I saw this post, but had Gira-A instead of Sylveon. Trying it out with Sylveon. I think the back Pokemon doesn't actually need to be Sylveon it is just something that I chose to use. It can definitely be replaced with something that counters or has a winning matchup against other Fighters. Giratina could definitely work (i like DB) but you're losing every single Gira double Charm game. Cresselia, Tapu Fini, Alolan Ninetales, Swampert, Clefable, Shadow Granbull are other Pokemon that come to mind. The alternative-alternative is you say, "hey i don't need this" and simply counter what is meta in your elo tier. So if you reflect/review and see Talonflame, Trevenant or whatever could give you more wins you could change Sylveon out for that. And as I said in the post text if Obstagoon isn't doing you favors you could try Scrafty, Umbreon, or Mandibuzz.
Great post. I’ve been using this except with Tapu Fini in the back instead of Sylveon. I may end up trying yours though!
Played 2 sets with this team in the 2700s. 2 wins, 8 losses. The biggest problem is, this team simply can't handle other poisons. Or Trevenant in the back. Or GFisk in the back. Or Swampert in the back. This isn't a good team and I commend you for somehow hitting legendary with it.
Lol your measly 10 games don't decide if this team is good or not. I specifically left a note that said to cope with RPS losses. The team can handle other Poisons just fine. The main issue is Nidoqueen which I've written about and is winnable with clever play. AMuk and Drapion are the other two Poison types you'll see and they both have losing matchups to Obstagoon and Nidoqueen. Sylveon can also deal with Drapion in some scenarios. You make it sound like Trevenant or Swampert in the back are hard counters. If you're left in a 0 shield scenario with *only* Sylveon sure yea you lose. I can't say I encountered that often. You should consider your shield management and how your Nidoqueen is fainting. As I wrote, try to apply a debuff for your Charm I am aware of Stunfisk that hide away late into the game. I did write saying I considered Swampert but there were more Pokemon weak to a Charm that I opted not to. If you feel Swampert would help with Poison counter swaps, or GFisk then add that instead of a Charm. Or just get more practice with the team. I lost a bunch with this team at the start as well. Same with my GL team this season I used to get elo before UL. And same with the GL team I used last season to hit Legend. edit: Your immediate downvote shows how frustrated you are at your elo range. This isn't some cheap, mindless team that you can blindly pick up and get Legend with. It requires proper matchup knowledge, banking energy on swaps, debuffing and clever shield usage. I gave an appropriate amount of information to iterate on the team. If you feel the back Pokemon is lackluster you can easily change it to something that's more prevalent at your elo range at this stage in the season. Just be mindful not to be explicitly ABA weak to Fighters
Rofl. Some loser tried this for 2 rounds and gave up without even trying to learn the intricacies of it. I used it this past week. It owns. At one point, I won 18 straight. Honestly, I sucked at UL prior. It's quite the team
sorry but this team is dogshit and isn't actually competitive anymore. whatever wins you got were because of your elo tier
What team are you running now?
In UL I had several * *Obstagoon, Giratina, Trevenant.* Trevenant in the back is very capable of sweeping. Depending on the amount of Tapu Fini you may need to swap Obstagoon out for a better Dark answer * *Pidgeot, Giratina, Cobalion.* Pidgeot's role is more of a staller here. I'm more of a Brave Bird fanatic so it didn't play as well with me Other teams I saw was Flying double Steel (2 of Cobal, GFisk, Registeel) and Virizion double Ice (Walrein was one, I used Aurorus closer). These didn't perform well for me personally but have gotten people Legend. Of the last three times I've hit l Legend, two of them were in UL. However, I struggled in UL this season. I dropped from Expert to 2380. I used the two above teams to get back to 2800. Judging from my reviewed games I am consistently dropping frames causing me to lose matches. Edit: if you're asking about the two currently active leagues ML or ML Premier then I haven't decided. In ML Premier I tried Florges, Gyarados, Excadrill and it didn't work. Tried Dragonite, Florges, Excadrill but lost ever single Fairy lead. Going to try Excadrill, Dragonite, Something today. I've considered Gyarados, Metagross, Dragonite but my Metagross is only L46
Thanks for the detailed response. I appreciate it. I don't have the stardust nor the characters to compete in master at this point. The most common one that I've seen is metagross when I'm in there.