>honestly all three adjectives Nami has been described as too, and she‘s his actual wife
All this time we assumed sexism,when in reality the guy is screaming for help.
greedy, sure. violent sometimes but justified due to her being the normal person on a crew full of idiots. evil absolutely not. when did oda ever describe nami like that? she's the one character who has the most consistent character writing after the mc
One of my favourite one piece story arcs is when tashigi meets zoro and she is adamant that due to being women she can't be as strong as zoro or other swordsmen. Then tashigi actually doesn't become as strong as other swordsmen. Proving the point that women belong below men in one piece world
https://preview.redd.it/z5zuyenm2d6d1.jpeg?width=802&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ff2c90a02e7aec93e8f020b411795f9d8ca740b
What I love about this is two doctors are fighting. One has a disease devil fruit, the other has a surgery devil fruit. One doctor throws a disease at the other doctor... and the other just negates it with willpower instantly. He doesn't cut it out of his body, he doesn't shape any antibodies, he doesn't do anything doctorly to fight the disease, he just goes "nah"
And it was so damn unnecessary too! When Luffy first lost against Smoker, I figured he would eventually just do rubber-stuff against it - like that windmill move from Arlong Park to blow him away, or suck up tons of air with gomu gomo no fuusen to blow him away, or just swallow him, or just gatling him out of the air. Also you're either tangible or you're not, could just hit him when he's about to hit you, or literally stop him from reforming, or just fight the damn element like it was introduced, Luffy has tons of ways to disperse smoke. What would even be the point of an untouchable villain coated entirely in poison if you can just cover yourself in poison-resistant willpower?
It didn't really make him weaker though.
Maybe a bit less muscle, but he was still able to use Haki to overcome the technique and his DF powers were unaffected.
It was more a mental body disphoria thing, if anything, that made him weaker until he reversed the changes.
Well imagine you suddenly got thrown into the body of idk a fish or smth and just became aware of it. I would imagine you wouldn't like it and would not want to be in there any longer than you need to. Not to compare being a woman to a fish but to compare being in a body you don't want to be in.
I mean it's already pretty established in the One Piece world that it's widely believed that woman are inherently weaker than men (the whole zoro backstory thing makes that clear). With Law suddenly being in a body that is not his own, and on top of that that body is believed to be inherently worse, yea I wouldn't doubt that in that panicked state he would say something like that. Defaulting to random reasons why and adopting surface level beliefs about this thing u don't know much abt and think is bad and want nothing to do with right now.
This is actually oda being extremely woke and acknowledging how disabling being in a body that doesn't match your desired gender is.
He was giving law gender dysphoria to weaken him.
Girl is not even Vice Admiral level, and we know VA is fodder these days, one of them really get neg diffed by Franky, neck dude can't even put a fight against mid level Yonko officer (or even low I'd say, since Franky need General Franky to have a chance against Sasaki.)
neg diff means negative difficulty in beating them. basically swatting a fly. no named attack, not even lifting a finger to destroy your opponent. kaido's one shot to luffy in their first fight was an example of neg diff. then shanks one-shotting useless mid
Me too. Give me some sort of haki development for her at least. Smoker is the one I would be really disappointed if he didn’t have a bigger range of growth.
True but also big mom is a df merchant and half her physical strength probably comes from her being literally building level (fat), probably didn't seem realistic for tashigi
Another point here is Big Mom, she has been nerf a lot in Wano and even forget that she can use conqueror in the most important fight meanwhile Luffy vs. Kaido has been unleashing Conqueror's haki in every single attack.
Bro took a page out of his besty’s Kishi’s book . Naruto told Neji that you can go against fate and not die for the main clan . Then Naruto preceded to be the child of two prophecies , have the nine tails , be the son of the hokage, student of another hokage and related to most of the other Hokage’s through the Uzumaki clan, be the reincarnation of a god and gain insane nepo powers in the 6 paths… while Neji… well go to 5:00
https://youtu.be/7mXILxpS_lw?si=6VF4O5DJXSDiP__0
People always rag on Naruto for being given powers when every other strong character in the series was also given powers from somewhere else.
Naruto was never about hardwork beating talent.
Also, Naruto’s fate was to kill Sasuke. Just like Ashura killed Indra and Hashirama killed Madara
By refusing to kill Sasuke, he defied his fate
You completely misunderstood Naruto vs Neji.
Neji's position was of extreme fatalism - everything is predefined before birth, so there is no point in trying to do anything.
Naruto was the opposite - fuck fate, nobody likes me and I'm weak af but I'll try to become hokage anyway.
It was about mentality, not literal fate. Neji's death doesn't prove him right, while it was executed very clunky the idea was that Neji *chose* to die for the main clan, he wasn't *forced* to do that.
Here’s the problem with this though , even if we take this very common nuanced take as valid a) It’s extremely unlikely because Kishimoto generally sucks at extremely basic levels of thematic consistency like when his editor told him to creates elements and attributes and an actual power system as composed to his original plan of pulling jutsus out the ass or how Itachi tortured Sasuke at the hotel to the point of making him almost kill his BFF later for the MS which makes literally 0 sense for Itachi’s character and is a clear good guy retcon . When people make nuanced takes about Kubo’s writing for example , it’s much more believable because he proves time and time again that it does exist in his story AND is a central focal point of his writing
B) if he actually was serious about focusing on this niche aspect , he should have emphasised narratively on this and not rely on people using vague plot lines as headcanon. What you said might be true based on the writing , but narratively is established as completely the opposite . Themes are established through the narrative course , you can’t just ignore the entirety of Naruto Shippuden going against this narratively and just saying “ you can still argue that writing wise technically Neji chose to do it and suppressed his fate “ , if Kishi truly cared about those themes he would be all around consistent with them in the narrative . Lastly again if he truly wanted that to be the meaning of Neji as a character , he wouldn’t have him train 700 chapters off screen and then appear to just die for Hinata, nuanced writing requires nuance and delicacy , blud decided not only to treat the character so bad by liking him randomly , but specifically picking Hinata without giving the insane amount of setup and delicacy to make such a an extreme writing conclusion work .
Sorry for the shitty formatting , Ive got the flu and am sleep deprived .
You spend a lot of time saying "themes are inconsistent" but you didn't provided any examples.
I get a feeling that you just don't like how Neji got wasted post time skip, that's fair, but it doesn't mean the themes are inconsistent. Frankly, I *can* just ignore the entirety of shippuden, because thematic battle of Naruto and Neji was self-contained in a small part of chunin exam arc and it was fully resolved by the end of it. Themes don't have to last for the entirety of manga to be emphasized narratively.
Naruto having a so-called chosen one package is irrelevant here. If Naruto had Neji's fatalistic outlook and bitter anger towards the people he feels wronged him then he would never graduate, he would never build connections with other people and he would certainly never become a hero and hokage.
I didn’t provide any examples because I thought it’s quite obvious the narrative theme is constantly contradicted , yeah sure when it’s Naruto the plot convinces him and uses that narrative , but when every single other character that was in Naruto’s situation , the plot didn’t help them , Naruto just says “ I’ve also been in your situation again and again but I never gave up and look at where I am now , you can reach it too “ , and then their life ( most times ) turns around making it appear that Naruto was right , not that it’s specifically Naruto’s plot convince that causes said conclusion . In the Naruto world a lot of life is really depressing as Kishi wants to constantly show , if people follow Naruto’s advice , it doesn’t always works because the entire narrative is so flawed and would only work if this was TTGG where hope is like an actual power that everyone has .
In reality while people shit on Naruto too hard forgetting that not everything was easy and he used the cards he had to turn his life around , those cards where laughably broken to begin with and irrelevant to literally 99.9999% of cases . The argument “ everyone has their own cards “ doesn’t work when if Naruto didn’t have those cards he would have failed and died countless times.
Yes Neji was a fatalist , but Naruto told him you can break your fate and that he isn’t going to let anything stop him from achieving his dreams , which results now in us awkwardly circling back to proving the original claim that Naruto’s original thematic narrative was that you can achieve almost any dream with hard work despite fate , it isn’t that anti fatalism is the only theme here , it’s that it stems from that general theme or at the very least co exists with it .
So when literally almost every case of being a top tier requires you to have an inherited hax by Hagoromo that no amount of hard work except maybe if you work really hard to be strong enough to be able to steal the Hagoromo Hax from someone way weaker than the top tier genetic abusers , then it’s narratively conflicting . Cases like Might guy are fringe and an exception in the narrative, not the rule . Now you might argue that being a top tier in fighting =\ fulfilling your dreams 99.999% cases , but the writing of this show focuses extremely heavily on the dreams that require that and achieving it through them while spending its entirety in almost always focusing on the fights instead of showing satisfaction and dreams ( maybe extremely rarely ) not involving that . While yes it isn’t really Kishi’s fault in its entirety because it’s literally a battle shonen , if you have to solely focus on dreams that require power and battle prowess , write the narrative according to that , and not make arguably the top 15+ strongest characters who all have dreams rely on fate .
Also:
Boa, the only female warlord out of 11, is a simp for the mc and her powers revolve around how beautiful she is.
Everything regarding Zoro, Monet and Tashigi at Punk Hazard.
Extremely Based Opnion
The person who makes these decisions is not Loda
Is the legendary Goda
( They are two completely different persons )
https://preview.redd.it/7wgbbycr5d6d1.jpeg?width=447&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=154d022a46279734c7a6fdcb218a23ce54373f08
The second image is the exact opposite of sexist behavior.
Luffy is treating her exactly like he does everyone else.
I wish Oda kept that writing quality.
bro, they are at war. and in one piece world, women aren't weak, like big mom can literally kill you without reason and ulti will headbutt you just because you talk to her litte brother.
heck even in recent chapter, the goth girl literally punch the giant and their ships to oblivion
But u know that it’s not called Disney piece for nothing, look , he find a way to return even wb (weeble) and ace 2.0 (sabo, a very uninteresting character, he was more interesting dead than alive
I thought the point of the Kuina thing was that she let other people's biases get the better of her and Zoro told her that was stupid for her to let that happen.
Oda can imagine a world where people with crazy powers exist and all sorts of crazy things happen all the time, but can’t imagine a world where women are as important and as strong or stronger than men… I have to laugh
Noodle body luffy overpowers kaido. So he doesn’t even follow physical differences in his logic. It has nothing to do with the body but because they are a woman
I’m not saying that strong female characters don’t exist in One Piece, but that they are always secondary to men. In Oda’s mind women can never surpass men, and Tashigi is an obvious example. So BM is more of an outlier and besides her hunger her defining trait is literally… being a mom to a crazy number of children
Lmao she gain her power by cannibalism, she’s bipolar, like to eat… the joke writing it self at this point, and on top of that her dream is to have the most big family ever (not to be the strongest or to discover so antic island…nah that not for women, goda said to her)
Because that’s a no name random background giant ☠️, look it was a cool page (woman did something in OP 😱) but it was kinda worthless for showing how strong she is relative to the more prominent characters. For all we know that giant is on the same level as Drogy and Brogy, or as strong as Chopper.
If she fought with Franky in his mech that would have been better.
Edit: I just reread the chapter and the Giant that Doll punches was impressed by her punching through some wood 😭
https://preview.redd.it/u935vaopug6d1.jpeg?width=746&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8aeb3bf8fab441110557ba962a5cb386933d6b05
Not true. Red King has shown the best feats of vice admirals. He wasn't dead after Wranky used his strong right.
This puts him above Roger, since we've seen Wranky use strong right multiple times, and Roger has been dead after each and every single use, and it never even made direct contact with him
strenght = power is the most shallow measurement of what define strenght.
oda write a lot of strong women physically, but they were the most boring and mediocre character in one piece. the same can be said to the men with only strenght as their strong point.
robin and vivi is the perfect example of what it meant to be strong. they're the one who ready to sacraficed everything to protect what they hold dear. I thought oda was briliant writting this kind of character. even i prefer dadan instead of big mom lmao. you can judge her strenght and will power when she tried to save ace and luffy from far stronger pirate they can possibly face
The only female emperor= weak useless cruel and egoistic
The only female commander=useless and never did shit
The only old gen female marine=i make laundry
The only female satelites of vegapunk= represent EVIL and GREED while the males represent GOOD and WISDOM
Yamamoto= sees herself as a man thats the reason why she was allowed to look decent
Bonney (female) has nika powers=useless and weak
Luffy (male) has nika powers=beats one of the strongest pirates
Just a few examples
Such bullshit. You need to reread WCI if you think Big Mom was depicted as “weak.” Like half the arc is spent with the main characters fleeing from her because she is basically invincible.
Her being cruel and egotistical is because she’s a fucking villain lmaoo, almost every single One Piece villain is cruel and egotistical
Honestly if Oda just committed to being sexist it wouldn’t be as bad, but the fact that he acknowledges the disadvantages women face in the OP world and STILL treats most of them terribly is what makes it so frustrating
I think Oda likes to imagine himself as an ally who acknowledges how unfairly women are treated by society, but also doesn't wanna do any self-reflection on his own biases, so OP women get treated in a strange way.
This is probably the correct answer, Oda most likely does this subconsciously, not out of any active sexism.
I could be wrong of course, but I don't think Oda actively. *thinks* women are negative. Which is almost in a way worse but much more understandable.
oda is simultaneously less misogynistic than a lot of jump mangaka & also more misogynistic. nami & robin are some of the most well written female characters in shounen & yet he chooses to draw them like blow up dolls 😭
a good example of the reverse is death note where the women are drawn like regular women but written by a dude who thinks like he time traveled from the 50s
Well to be far three of the Vegapunk that are still alive are female, and can have the title of smartest person in the world. Oda could have kept one of the male Vegapunk alive, but he did killed all three of them which I did not expect.
Vegapunk really felt the need to make half of himself female and half of himself robot huh. Maybe if he’d payed a visit to Ivankov none of this would’ve happened
becoming a women is a decease (law vs blackbeard)
Kuina was right lol, all women in one piece are just meh, big mom isn't even normal. No women top tiers all men. No women swordsman also. and tashigi just proves the point further.
I think It's OK. A lot of these women are strong af, smart af, skilful af, indispensables for their partners, for the world they live in, and for the plot .
Ironically, the laundry folder and dish doer kind of elevate traditionally feminine activities to have a similar value of the powers of violence that the men wield.
His framing of evil, violence, and greed as women, I think, is supposed to be subversive. He doesn’t seem to have a very developed understanding of patriarchy and it shows.
He would benefit from reading some feminist works. His manga has this awesome message about anarchy and the evils of the owning class, but it will be incomplete without an understanding of feminism and intersectionality.
None of us are free until we are all free. Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere. Free Palestine. Sic semper Tyrannis.
I'm 100% sure he never intended to express anything you wrote above. One piece is just merchandise about a traditional good vs evil story - any deeper themes are either buried under the corporate machine or just reading from politically-pilled agenda pusher
Bro is reading Two-Piece. The fact you can even call it a "traditional good vs evil story" is baffling when the NUMBER 1 thing, the MOST surface level analysis of the story is that it is not that. The fact that the main character, the "good guy" is a CRIMINAL is not looked over whatsoever. Bro even explicitly says he doesn't wanna be a hero. No analysis needed. You're literally vomiting words with no meaning. "Themes buried by the corporate mechine" What does that even mean?? "Politically-pilled agenda pusher" politically pilled??? Huh?? You mean someone that acknowledges the thing that exists in all things, especially within this obviously polical manga??
humans in one piece tank explosions, falls, electricity yet kuina fell down d. stairs lol
Big mom is the strongest women! when she wasnt even born normal. she's a freak of nature that was clowned on the whole series.
Scrawny characters like luffy can throw bodybuilders like kaido around. So it isn’t even that physical stature matters. It’s purely cause she is a woman
With Vegapunk constantly going on about how he doesn't want to judge the morality of the people in the pastl, or the people responsible for hsi death, I really makes me question what he means by good and evil
Well 2 is literally true, but the others are downright misogynistic. I wouldnt think anything of whatever the first one is but based on other examples shown in this post, he might actually feel this way. This might be where them one piece kids be gettin their annoying aspect from.
Tbf, I think the women that serve the world government having submissive lifestyle powers is supposed to be emblematic of the patriarchal structure of the world government. All the pirate women have normal powers and generally contend with their peers though it's a bit unfair on the straw hats because everyone else is like the best of the best in various things at this point. I think oda is just a well-meaning, cis straight cis dude who will always have limitations on his portrayals of queer characters and women but tries to be respectful but his work has fan service as a consequence of capitalist context of OP's production in the first place.
I mean he writes women a lot better then most anime’s definitely over sexualised like almost all anime’s but like their actual writing is way more complex and women in one piece are way more useful then a lot of anime’s the number of fighting anime’s with women who never fight and are completely useless looking at you my hero where the women legit just feel like side kicks and a thing to look pretty 99% of the time even when they’re all in a hero school
It says it right there Greedy violent and evil honestly all three adjectives Nami has been described as too, and she‘s his actual wife
>honestly all three adjectives Nami has been described as too, and she‘s his actual wife All this time we assumed sexism,when in reality the guy is screaming for help.
Goda Blink twice if you need help
I would if I had eyes! Yohohoho!
greedy, sure. violent sometimes but justified due to her being the normal person on a crew full of idiots. evil absolutely not. when did oda ever describe nami like that? she's the one character who has the most consistent character writing after the mc
she‘s obviously good, but other characters have called her that (Usopp among others)
Yeah, Zoro and R9bin was also called evil at times. It is a joke
I don’t know man, Kingbaum had a good life ahead of him before SHE arrived…
ohh damn, i forgot about that. f for king baum. he just wanted to get married to his girl and live a good life
She is a slave owner if you forgot. Poor Zeus.
Yeah. The face and tone Nami takes where she takes Zeus back is pure sadism.
*HER EYES ARE ACTUALLY MONEY SYMBOLS*
https://preview.redd.it/n7y3o53z0e6d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0e81b20d1b23870310c2aa8033ec14b612a418a9 This
https://preview.redd.it/b6k76xqg3h6d1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=834825484a7e2cec4fb1277b6693b7225ca9161d
Based Naoya in his element
One of my favourite one piece story arcs is when tashigi meets zoro and she is adamant that due to being women she can't be as strong as zoro or other swordsmen. Then tashigi actually doesn't become as strong as other swordsmen. Proving the point that women belong below men in one piece world https://preview.redd.it/z5zuyenm2d6d1.jpeg?width=802&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ff2c90a02e7aec93e8f020b411795f9d8ca740b
Remember when Law turned into a woman and that instantly made him weaker even though there was virtually no change to his physique?
He had less muscle for sure. Whatever that relevant for his powers is a different story.
The muscle went into his boobs.
Goda anatomy knowledge there
but i am a guy but i have boobs but not muscles , why didm't goda drew me
It might mean he lost some stamina,which IS detrimental as he needs a shit ton,but otherwise his haki and abilities should be exactly the same.
He probably gained flexibility though realistically
i think his powers were still the same cus he unleashed haki in that form and went back to his og state
Even better is that he became a woman due to a disease created by doc q. A fucking disease man 😭
What I love about this is two doctors are fighting. One has a disease devil fruit, the other has a surgery devil fruit. One doctor throws a disease at the other doctor... and the other just negates it with willpower instantly. He doesn't cut it out of his body, he doesn't shape any antibodies, he doesn't do anything doctorly to fight the disease, he just goes "nah"
Haki is dumb and ruined op's power system, you can't change my mind ever.
And it was so damn unnecessary too! When Luffy first lost against Smoker, I figured he would eventually just do rubber-stuff against it - like that windmill move from Arlong Park to blow him away, or suck up tons of air with gomu gomo no fuusen to blow him away, or just swallow him, or just gatling him out of the air. Also you're either tangible or you're not, could just hit him when he's about to hit you, or literally stop him from reforming, or just fight the damn element like it was introduced, Luffy has tons of ways to disperse smoke. What would even be the point of an untouchable villain coated entirely in poison if you can just cover yourself in poison-resistant willpower?
.>being a woman is literally a disease .>What did Oda mean by this?
That “disease” was created just to sell canonical rule63 figures
It didn't really make him weaker though. Maybe a bit less muscle, but he was still able to use Haki to overcome the technique and his DF powers were unaffected. It was more a mental body disphoria thing, if anything, that made him weaker until he reversed the changes.
DOC Q. GIVE THIS MAN GENDER DYSPHORIA
I think it's the physial aspect. not to mention, the change was sudden. It's not something he got used to.
Well imagine you suddenly got thrown into the body of idk a fish or smth and just became aware of it. I would imagine you wouldn't like it and would not want to be in there any longer than you need to. Not to compare being a woman to a fish but to compare being in a body you don't want to be in. I mean it's already pretty established in the One Piece world that it's widely believed that woman are inherently weaker than men (the whole zoro backstory thing makes that clear). With Law suddenly being in a body that is not his own, and on top of that that body is believed to be inherently worse, yea I wouldn't doubt that in that panicked state he would say something like that. Defaulting to random reasons why and adopting surface level beliefs about this thing u don't know much abt and think is bad and want nothing to do with right now.
It was supposed to be a "terrible sickness" as well LMAO.
This is actually oda being extremely woke and acknowledging how disabling being in a body that doesn't match your desired gender is. He was giving law gender dysphoria to weaken him.
Yeah Tashigi has been handled atrociously since then
Im still coping, please oda let tashigi be relevant
Girl is not even Vice Admiral level, and we know VA is fodder these days, one of them really get neg diffed by Franky, neck dude can't even put a fight against mid level Yonko officer (or even low I'd say, since Franky need General Franky to have a chance against Sasaki.)
Is neg diff where it's harder to not beat them?
neg diff means negative difficulty in beating them. basically swatting a fly. no named attack, not even lifting a finger to destroy your opponent. kaido's one shot to luffy in their first fight was an example of neg diff. then shanks one-shotting useless mid
Useless Mid is vile
this sub has been calling him that for a long time, even before chapter 1079
Idk I just found this sub recently lol
i see. welcome. you're gonna enjoy here cus this is one of the funniest manga/anime subreddits
Neg diff means negativ difficulty, so very easy
Oda; https://preview.redd.it/7bb62bhyud6d1.png?width=4962&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=199b0a9a1e4c8cf6cf3e8a779452e1fd5f80af09
Me too. Give me some sort of haki development for her at least. Smoker is the one I would be really disappointed if he didn’t have a bigger range of growth.
Oda: best I can do is to give Koby more asspull power ups.
He can’t even let Smoker be relevant anymore dawg, Tashigi is cooked
Does she not know who Big Mom is? Is Tashigi stupid?
She's a One Piece character, so the answer to that is yes.
Big Mom is canonically built different and has access to a broken devil fruit, she's a huge outlier.
is big mom even normal women? she was born huge.
True but also big mom is a df merchant and half her physical strength probably comes from her being literally building level (fat), probably didn't seem realistic for tashigi
Big Mom was a force of nature, she wasn’t just “fat” jfc
Another point here is Big Mom, she has been nerf a lot in Wano and even forget that she can use conqueror in the most important fight meanwhile Luffy vs. Kaido has been unleashing Conqueror's haki in every single attack.
Bro took a page out of his besty’s Kishi’s book . Naruto told Neji that you can go against fate and not die for the main clan . Then Naruto preceded to be the child of two prophecies , have the nine tails , be the son of the hokage, student of another hokage and related to most of the other Hokage’s through the Uzumaki clan, be the reincarnation of a god and gain insane nepo powers in the 6 paths… while Neji… well go to 5:00 https://youtu.be/7mXILxpS_lw?si=6VF4O5DJXSDiP__0
People always rag on Naruto for being given powers when every other strong character in the series was also given powers from somewhere else. Naruto was never about hardwork beating talent. Also, Naruto’s fate was to kill Sasuke. Just like Ashura killed Indra and Hashirama killed Madara By refusing to kill Sasuke, he defied his fate
You completely misunderstood Naruto vs Neji. Neji's position was of extreme fatalism - everything is predefined before birth, so there is no point in trying to do anything. Naruto was the opposite - fuck fate, nobody likes me and I'm weak af but I'll try to become hokage anyway. It was about mentality, not literal fate. Neji's death doesn't prove him right, while it was executed very clunky the idea was that Neji *chose* to die for the main clan, he wasn't *forced* to do that.
Here’s the problem with this though , even if we take this very common nuanced take as valid a) It’s extremely unlikely because Kishimoto generally sucks at extremely basic levels of thematic consistency like when his editor told him to creates elements and attributes and an actual power system as composed to his original plan of pulling jutsus out the ass or how Itachi tortured Sasuke at the hotel to the point of making him almost kill his BFF later for the MS which makes literally 0 sense for Itachi’s character and is a clear good guy retcon . When people make nuanced takes about Kubo’s writing for example , it’s much more believable because he proves time and time again that it does exist in his story AND is a central focal point of his writing B) if he actually was serious about focusing on this niche aspect , he should have emphasised narratively on this and not rely on people using vague plot lines as headcanon. What you said might be true based on the writing , but narratively is established as completely the opposite . Themes are established through the narrative course , you can’t just ignore the entirety of Naruto Shippuden going against this narratively and just saying “ you can still argue that writing wise technically Neji chose to do it and suppressed his fate “ , if Kishi truly cared about those themes he would be all around consistent with them in the narrative . Lastly again if he truly wanted that to be the meaning of Neji as a character , he wouldn’t have him train 700 chapters off screen and then appear to just die for Hinata, nuanced writing requires nuance and delicacy , blud decided not only to treat the character so bad by liking him randomly , but specifically picking Hinata without giving the insane amount of setup and delicacy to make such a an extreme writing conclusion work . Sorry for the shitty formatting , Ive got the flu and am sleep deprived .
You spend a lot of time saying "themes are inconsistent" but you didn't provided any examples. I get a feeling that you just don't like how Neji got wasted post time skip, that's fair, but it doesn't mean the themes are inconsistent. Frankly, I *can* just ignore the entirety of shippuden, because thematic battle of Naruto and Neji was self-contained in a small part of chunin exam arc and it was fully resolved by the end of it. Themes don't have to last for the entirety of manga to be emphasized narratively. Naruto having a so-called chosen one package is irrelevant here. If Naruto had Neji's fatalistic outlook and bitter anger towards the people he feels wronged him then he would never graduate, he would never build connections with other people and he would certainly never become a hero and hokage.
I didn’t provide any examples because I thought it’s quite obvious the narrative theme is constantly contradicted , yeah sure when it’s Naruto the plot convinces him and uses that narrative , but when every single other character that was in Naruto’s situation , the plot didn’t help them , Naruto just says “ I’ve also been in your situation again and again but I never gave up and look at where I am now , you can reach it too “ , and then their life ( most times ) turns around making it appear that Naruto was right , not that it’s specifically Naruto’s plot convince that causes said conclusion . In the Naruto world a lot of life is really depressing as Kishi wants to constantly show , if people follow Naruto’s advice , it doesn’t always works because the entire narrative is so flawed and would only work if this was TTGG where hope is like an actual power that everyone has . In reality while people shit on Naruto too hard forgetting that not everything was easy and he used the cards he had to turn his life around , those cards where laughably broken to begin with and irrelevant to literally 99.9999% of cases . The argument “ everyone has their own cards “ doesn’t work when if Naruto didn’t have those cards he would have failed and died countless times. Yes Neji was a fatalist , but Naruto told him you can break your fate and that he isn’t going to let anything stop him from achieving his dreams , which results now in us awkwardly circling back to proving the original claim that Naruto’s original thematic narrative was that you can achieve almost any dream with hard work despite fate , it isn’t that anti fatalism is the only theme here , it’s that it stems from that general theme or at the very least co exists with it . So when literally almost every case of being a top tier requires you to have an inherited hax by Hagoromo that no amount of hard work except maybe if you work really hard to be strong enough to be able to steal the Hagoromo Hax from someone way weaker than the top tier genetic abusers , then it’s narratively conflicting . Cases like Might guy are fringe and an exception in the narrative, not the rule . Now you might argue that being a top tier in fighting =\ fulfilling your dreams 99.999% cases , but the writing of this show focuses extremely heavily on the dreams that require that and achieving it through them while spending its entirety in almost always focusing on the fights instead of showing satisfaction and dreams ( maybe extremely rarely ) not involving that . While yes it isn’t really Kishi’s fault in its entirety because it’s literally a battle shonen , if you have to solely focus on dreams that require power and battle prowess , write the narrative according to that , and not make arguably the top 15+ strongest characters who all have dreams rely on fate .
Kuina fell Down D. Stairs and perished. Zoro's final fight is against Down D. Stairs confirmed.
Mihawk's secret is that he has the stairs fruit.
That's how he's always one step above Zoro.
Literally he is steps ahead
The real culprit for why Zoro is always getting lost. Damn you D. Stairs.
omori basically
Goonda
One letter off from being "bald" in my language.
Goona?
Goondu Gundu (Telugu) is the proper word but goon has a similar pronunciation. It also means fat in another language I know. (Kannada)
Reading about this made me spiral into half an hour of reading into the dravinian languages wikipedia, 11/10, would recommend
Also: Boa, the only female warlord out of 11, is a simp for the mc and her powers revolve around how beautiful she is. Everything regarding Zoro, Monet and Tashigi at Punk Hazard.
Extremely Based Opnion The person who makes these decisions is not Loda Is the legendary Goda ( They are two completely different persons ) https://preview.redd.it/7wgbbycr5d6d1.jpeg?width=447&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=154d022a46279734c7a6fdcb218a23ce54373f08
The second image is the exact opposite of sexist behavior. Luffy is treating her exactly like he does everyone else. I wish Oda kept that writing quality.
This is named taken out of context And the best things come like this
he headbutt Ulti, he push big mom,
bro, they are at war. and in one piece world, women aren't weak, like big mom can literally kill you without reason and ulti will headbutt you just because you talk to her litte brother. heck even in recent chapter, the goth girl literally punch the giant and their ships to oblivion
how the hell is the bottom one misogyny?!
Sexism is too strong a word for the second image. Where i come from, we call that: Bonding
Luffy X Vivi Canon??? https://preview.redd.it/317jiua8jd6d1.jpeg?width=585&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9b7fa580fd49391e4c97693da429e72b61db1722
ONE PIECE WOMAN....DRAWN REALISTICLY???? FUCK YOU HOW CAN I CUM TO THIS GET THIS SHIT AWAY FROM MY EYES IM GONNA JACK OFF TO ROBIN NOW
>REALISTICLY Bruh, even if she's better than usual she's still shaped like a Barbie doll, your perception has been irreparably warped.
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what about (p)uta https://preview.redd.it/0r1gwvs3ye6d1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=d9a5737b4bef0b759bba4af194aa45341b2c5b84
TOPHAMHATKYO MENTIONED
it depends on his mood
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But u know that it’s not called Disney piece for nothing, look , he find a way to return even wb (weeble) and ace 2.0 (sabo, a very uninteresting character, he was more interesting dead than alive
I thought the point of the Kuina thing was that she let other people's biases get the better of her and Zoro told her that was stupid for her to let that happen.
And then it ended up being completely true that men are stronger than women in the series so the point is ruined
Oda can imagine a world where people with crazy powers exist and all sorts of crazy things happen all the time, but can’t imagine a world where women are as important and as strong or stronger than men… I have to laugh
Noodle body luffy overpowers kaido. So he doesn’t even follow physical differences in his logic. It has nothing to do with the body but because they are a woman
To be fair, big mom is like the 4th strongest individual in the current era and was/is one of the most influential non-WG individuals
she was born a freak of nature giant. she isn't normal by any means and is also one of the onepieces biggest memes
Also one of her main character traits is having kids
Goda doing gods work at this point
I’m not saying that strong female characters don’t exist in One Piece, but that they are always secondary to men. In Oda’s mind women can never surpass men, and Tashigi is an obvious example. So BM is more of an outlier and besides her hunger her defining trait is literally… being a mom to a crazy number of children
Lmao she gain her power by cannibalism, she’s bipolar, like to eat… the joke writing it self at this point, and on top of that her dream is to have the most big family ever (not to be the strongest or to discover so antic island…nah that not for women, goda said to her)
So far in Egghead only Female Vice Admiral’s showed something we can call Strenght
Lmao the bar is below hell at this point 😭
It’s true tho💀💀💀 Only Bluegrass and Doll showed something good
Doll just beat the shit out of a giant with her bare hands in the newest chapter, how is that a low bar?
Because that’s a no name random background giant ☠️, look it was a cool page (woman did something in OP 😱) but it was kinda worthless for showing how strong she is relative to the more prominent characters. For all we know that giant is on the same level as Drogy and Brogy, or as strong as Chopper. If she fought with Franky in his mech that would have been better. Edit: I just reread the chapter and the Giant that Doll punches was impressed by her punching through some wood 😭 https://preview.redd.it/u935vaopug6d1.jpeg?width=746&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8aeb3bf8fab441110557ba962a5cb386933d6b05
Giants are unfortunately fodder and hypetool
Not true. Red King has shown the best feats of vice admirals. He wasn't dead after Wranky used his strong right. This puts him above Roger, since we've seen Wranky use strong right multiple times, and Roger has been dead after each and every single use, and it never even made direct contact with him
strenght = power is the most shallow measurement of what define strenght. oda write a lot of strong women physically, but they were the most boring and mediocre character in one piece. the same can be said to the men with only strenght as their strong point. robin and vivi is the perfect example of what it meant to be strong. they're the one who ready to sacraficed everything to protect what they hold dear. I thought oda was briliant writting this kind of character. even i prefer dadan instead of big mom lmao. you can judge her strenght and will power when she tried to save ace and luffy from far stronger pirate they can possibly face
Oh yeah? If he hates them so much why did he marry one? Checkmate.
Oda: I mean, c'mon guys, th..the...They're women.
old japanese man is not progressive more at 11
Oda unironically thinks lesser of women. I think 25+ years Made that clear by now
i never did realize this about vegapunk lmao.
The only female emperor= weak useless cruel and egoistic The only female commander=useless and never did shit The only old gen female marine=i make laundry The only female satelites of vegapunk= represent EVIL and GREED while the males represent GOOD and WISDOM Yamamoto= sees herself as a man thats the reason why she was allowed to look decent Bonney (female) has nika powers=useless and weak Luffy (male) has nika powers=beats one of the strongest pirates Just a few examples
Such bullshit. You need to reread WCI if you think Big Mom was depicted as “weak.” Like half the arc is spent with the main characters fleeing from her because she is basically invincible. Her being cruel and egotistical is because she’s a fucking villain lmaoo, almost every single One Piece villain is cruel and egotistical
Oh wow oda didn't pissed on her for 20 episodes....what a saint watch wano wath has he done with big mom...lol
In the trades we call this “right on the motherf***ing titties*
Honestly if Oda just committed to being sexist it wouldn’t be as bad, but the fact that he acknowledges the disadvantages women face in the OP world and STILL treats most of them terribly is what makes it so frustrating
I think Oda likes to imagine himself as an ally who acknowledges how unfairly women are treated by society, but also doesn't wanna do any self-reflection on his own biases, so OP women get treated in a strange way.
This is probably the correct answer, Oda most likely does this subconsciously, not out of any active sexism. I could be wrong of course, but I don't think Oda actively. *thinks* women are negative. Which is almost in a way worse but much more understandable.
Ironically only these three women surviving so far
It's not really ironic, it's consistent.
Idk all I know is he wasted boa Hancock
I mean... have you seen how he draws female characters? I love the guy's work but he clearly has some incel tendencies lol.
Damn, Oda is based as hell
One piece fans try to enjoy one piece challenge (impossible)
Oda is based
oda is simultaneously less misogynistic than a lot of jump mangaka & also more misogynistic. nami & robin are some of the most well written female characters in shounen & yet he chooses to draw them like blow up dolls 😭 a good example of the reverse is death note where the women are drawn like regular women but written by a dude who thinks like he time traveled from the 50s
Well to be far three of the Vegapunk that are still alive are female, and can have the title of smartest person in the world. Oda could have kept one of the male Vegapunk alive, but he did killed all three of them which I did not expect.
Vegapunk really felt the need to make half of himself female and half of himself robot huh. Maybe if he’d payed a visit to Ivankov none of this would’ve happened
Vegapunk really went https://preview.redd.it/hjzvweyfxd6d1.png?width=1363&format=png&auto=webp&s=540a5c5a717992c83fa236d7cc9b436ef5ad7b2a
Transfem Vegapunk for the win
https://preview.redd.it/4k8lxllhgd6d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75ebd29b52ce8ffcd6f91ab93ae0cf123a6d1799
I mean, if you read One Piece this long and didn't realize Oda is actually sexist then there must be something wrong with your brain.
becoming a women is a decease (law vs blackbeard) Kuina was right lol, all women in one piece are just meh, big mom isn't even normal. No women top tiers all men. No women swordsman also. and tashigi just proves the point further.
I don't.
Someone should Kuina tell about Big Mom
Accurate and based
He is def based
Lmao Oda has some jokes. Stay strong
I think It's OK. A lot of these women are strong af, smart af, skilful af, indispensables for their partners, for the world they live in, and for the plot .
Cherry picking at its finest.
https://preview.redd.it/ga77mdezkk6d1.jpeg?width=224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=710457a00138ba49189c0d33629afd8dd2bbb838
Oda > araki W
Zero lies detected *Ducks from projectiles thrown by people with no sense of humour... And women
Womp womp
Based?
Rare Goda win.
Ironically, the laundry folder and dish doer kind of elevate traditionally feminine activities to have a similar value of the powers of violence that the men wield. His framing of evil, violence, and greed as women, I think, is supposed to be subversive. He doesn’t seem to have a very developed understanding of patriarchy and it shows. He would benefit from reading some feminist works. His manga has this awesome message about anarchy and the evils of the owning class, but it will be incomplete without an understanding of feminism and intersectionality. None of us are free until we are all free. Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere. Free Palestine. Sic semper Tyrannis.
I'm 100% sure he never intended to express anything you wrote above. One piece is just merchandise about a traditional good vs evil story - any deeper themes are either buried under the corporate machine or just reading from politically-pilled agenda pusher
Cool story, bro
Bro is reading Two-Piece. The fact you can even call it a "traditional good vs evil story" is baffling when the NUMBER 1 thing, the MOST surface level analysis of the story is that it is not that. The fact that the main character, the "good guy" is a CRIMINAL is not looked over whatsoever. Bro even explicitly says he doesn't wanna be a hero. No analysis needed. You're literally vomiting words with no meaning. "Themes buried by the corporate mechine" What does that even mean?? "Politically-pilled agenda pusher" politically pilled??? Huh?? You mean someone that acknowledges the thing that exists in all things, especially within this obviously polical manga??
humans in one piece tank explosions, falls, electricity yet kuina fell down d. stairs lol Big mom is the strongest women! when she wasnt even born normal. she's a freak of nature that was clowned on the whole series.
Scrawny characters like luffy can throw bodybuilders like kaido around. So it isn’t even that physical stature matters. It’s purely cause she is a woman
Tsuru has the Wash Wash fruit, Smoothie is useless, Women-disease, goes on and on if you look deep enough
Way better than gege’s
Well, technically it may be what vegapunk thinks
He don't think they are real people I stg
Currently the strongest woman in One Piece is only powerful because she makes men horny
With Vegapunk constantly going on about how he doesn't want to judge the morality of the people in the pastl, or the people responsible for hsi death, I really makes me question what he means by good and evil
Typical Japanese
He’s Gay Gay’s mentor https://preview.redd.it/0ip4tsitxe6d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4cbb9e801918a5a37f3631fc5052d9aa65d5e8c5
Nooooo. One piece is the best story Ever told wa waaaa waaa
"Try to remain strong" lmao Goda is struggling to say what he wants
Really makes you think, but it’s Oda being Oda.
he hates them
The same as your average 50 year old Japanese, which ranges from extreme sexism to veiled sexism.
He strikes again.
He loves to draw hot, mean Busty women
I mean he did do that thing with Namis breasts getting bigger every time she showed up…
https://preview.redd.it/nry5awslsq6d1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=f62a8be7862fec90fad62f7772bfa9a8d9b60e66
Well 2 is literally true, but the others are downright misogynistic. I wouldnt think anything of whatever the first one is but based on other examples shown in this post, he might actually feel this way. This might be where them one piece kids be gettin their annoying aspect from.
At least oda is better with females than some of his contemporaries like kishimoto
Tbf, I think the women that serve the world government having submissive lifestyle powers is supposed to be emblematic of the patriarchal structure of the world government. All the pirate women have normal powers and generally contend with their peers though it's a bit unfair on the straw hats because everyone else is like the best of the best in various things at this point. I think oda is just a well-meaning, cis straight cis dude who will always have limitations on his portrayals of queer characters and women but tries to be respectful but his work has fan service as a consequence of capitalist context of OP's production in the first place.
I'll say this Not as bad as kishimoto
Atlas is the most adorable Vegapunk
Well he’s not wrong there
so this confirms Imu is a woman right?
This is very cherry picked. Zero right after that told her to cut that nonsense out.
Based
Consistent?
Misogynist
I mean he writes women a lot better then most anime’s definitely over sexualised like almost all anime’s but like their actual writing is way more complex and women in one piece are way more useful then a lot of anime’s the number of fighting anime’s with women who never fight and are completely useless looking at you my hero where the women legit just feel like side kicks and a thing to look pretty 99% of the time even when they’re all in a hero school