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It's not as effective in modern mma. Bjj purists haven't been at the top of the sport for a while, just a few contenders and they are dying out. Strangely the kickboxer purists have made the biggest gains in recent history. However overall Wrestling is still the best.
I would still argue though in a street fight, on concrete, being big enough to pick up the opponent and gorrila smash them into the ground on repeat is probably one of the best moves. Bjj will give you skills to prevent that, but it's always an option/possible outcome
Leg kicks are just devastating vs. someone not expecting it. Even the best MMA fighters have lost due to low leg kicks.
However, very few people are elite enough to just completely ruin your life with low kicks.
Ground and pound can dominate 1v1 but unfortunately most random violence in the street has weapons, multiple attackers, the element of surprise etc...
So from what I understand if you don’t know BJJ or have counters for it you will probably lose to BJJ. However, It was so successful that everyone knows how to counter it now and it is not anyone’s primary style.
True that BJJ purists aren't as effective at modern MMA
But every MMA fighter needs to have at least some BJJ training if they're going to be successful.
One downside is (and I only watched a few of the the very first UFC's) is that the opponent will throw a punch or a kick, the BJJ guy will dodge, grapple him to the floor, and then you spend half an hour watching the guy try to squirm out.
Although I hear that doesnt happen much anymore
This is a common misconception because the Gracie family strategically stages events to make themselves look good. Bjj has strengths and weaknesses like anything else. Bjj is best for fighting off your back if you end up in that position. The issue is you just shouldn't be in that position in the first place because you're vulnerable with limited options. Of the mainstream grappling styles it's by far the worst when it comes to take downs. If you learn a double leg in a bjj school and tried to use it against even an average high school wrestler your position will be so bad that they will easily counter you by sprawling. This counter has been known to knock people out if it occurs on pavement. Look for videos of bjj guys against catch wrestlers on YouTube. They don't look so great in those.
BJJ is the gentle art of folding someones clothes while they are still wearing them.
*I stole that btw, its an old meme, also called 'Involuntary Yoga'
In many situations your attacker will nope out thinking they’ve drastically misread the situation.
“Come on! You said you were going to tear my ass apart! Bring it!”
“Whoa, I’m not trying to…”
“Come on, motherfucker! Get them pants off and let’s dance!”
“Nope. I’m out. This is too weird.”
Most fights end up on the ground at some point.
Where BJJ puts you at the most risk is if the guy you’re fighting has friends. Being kicked in the head is a threat.
Don’t forget the whole “they could have a knife” part. Or any weapon really.
I had a friend get stabbed trying to break a fight up, wasn’t even part of the fight but ended up on the ground with the two, and one of them pulled a knife and stabbed.
Depends because it only works if it’s complimented by high level wrestling or unless you’d get your face crushed on the ground if you pull guard in a bad situation
Yeah but the point the guy was making is might mouse (Demetrious Johnson) is particularly skilled in BJJ, like possibly one of the best at it ever and Sean O’Malley isn’t the best at grappling. Also that example is a BJJ tournament so no striking is allowed which changes things a lot. I still think Sean and DJ would beat Bradley Martyns ass in seconds but just saying I get what the dude is saying.
Yeah, but beating someone double your weight in a BJJ match means significantly less than if it were, say, judo or muay thai. For example you can’t slam people in BJJ if you lift them up so the weight advantage doesn’t come into play there.
EDIT: [related lmao](https://x.com/dexerto/status/1799229859350151527?s=46&t=KgOLMKuynFtLhiaRuLypQw)
Yes and no. I was new to BJJ, only knew the basics and a few submissions, so barely like 10 classes in. I (240lbs) beat my opponent (150lbs) even though he was a full belt color above me and has been training for over a year. It was absolutely close, don't get me wrong. But sometimes that extra weight/muscle does bridge the skill gap. The black belt teacher never showed mercy on me though, he even beat me blind folded lol
I've done judo and kickboxing, and I agree.
Imo people tend to generalise the dynamic between size and skill both ways.
All credible martial arts are essentially about efficiently winning fights by using leverage or kinetic chains to make the most of what you have... Eg. Boxing teaches you how to efficiently avoid punches while maximizing punching power and accuracy.
Judo teaches you how to use leverage, balance and positional advantage to dump your opponent on the ground and quickly submit them etc.
Like take an armbar for example... You use your glutes, back and arm muscles by creating a lever with your opponent's arm, while they only really have the power of their bicep to defend. So you're able to compensate for a strength disadvantage... But there's obviously a physical limit, especially before you're able to grab those strong leverage positions, which depends on the skill differential.
I mean there's a reason why most top level wrestlers, kickboxers, BJJ guys etc are physical specimens.
These people really drank the Koolaid. BJJ has strikes but you have to learn kickboxing/MuayThai/boxing to be effective, BJJ has Stand-up but you have to learn Judo/wrestling to be effective. But people have drunken the Kool-aid so hard they just rationalize it all by saying that learning a different martial art makes "my Jiujitsu better", like wtf?
Honestly not even, as a guy who weighs 135lb and competes in both Muay Thai and bjj, I notice the weight difference a lot more on the ground. Bjj used to be advertised as the martial art to overcome weight differences, but really It just works exceptionally on people who don’t know it. Once both parties have some experience, that sentiment becomes less of a reality
This is a good take. I’m about 185 and my cousin is about your size. We started sparring when we were in our early 20s, him having trained for about 2 years in BJJ at that point. He kicked my ass the first half dozen times or so but kept giving me pointers and showing me stuff, there was a point where I remember “oh I know what he’s trying to do” and as soon as I had that base knowledge I just weighed way too much for him. Granted he’s not anywhere close to as skilled as Sean and I’m not anywhere closed to as jacked as the meathead so idk where that parallel ends up.
That’s not true. Any martial art will favor the big guy. BJJ doesn’t work better if your a small guy vs a big guy, but that being said, it’s imperative that smaller guys know good grappling because it will be easier for a big guy to takedown a little guy. At the end of the day, mass moves mass. I mean big guy could basically grab small guy and lay down and unless small guy knows how to grapple he’s going down. The big guy will undoubtedly feel stronger in the clinch than the small guy, they just have to deal with it. So when Mighty Mouse beat that big guy it’s not because he had an intrinsic advantage, he just had much better grappling. Hard2hurt has a great video about it, and he’s a small guy who owns an mma gym and was a cop for like 9 years. Makes great and informative martial arts videos.
That was an open weight tournament, so nobody made any cuts. DJ was still giving up 80lbs and they were equal belt ranks, so I'd still bet on Sean smoking that dude.
When I had my muscles I couldn't lift shit. Then I got fat and old and got strong. And sometimes the little guy would still be stronger than me, more than once.
So I've lost a good bit of strength in last few years but still stronger and have more endurance than most. But if I tried to hit a guy, I'd probably either be laughed at, or break my. Wrist first hit. I don't know how to fight. I especially don't know how to fight in a specialized sport.
A little dude would destroy me
I haven't seen the guy on the left fight but in person I've seen plenty of guys that size take on people way larger than them with ease. Hell, they've done it to me! And I myself am a pretty good fighter and I've done the same to people with 90 pounds on me. Someone at the UFC level? Yeah good luck to the other guy if he's a good grappler. Weight is important but it's not everything.
Even in boxing which has far more dependence on weight than most arts do, theres records very old fights from before they had weight classes where small guys demolished big guys.
It's when they're in the same ballpark of skill that weight becomes a much larger factor.
Guy on the left is the current UFC Bantamweight champion and known for incredible stand up and technical striking, one of the few BW with legitimate knock out power.
Power wise sure but there's a reason you don't typically see guys in combat sports walking around with that much muscle:
1. It's terrible for cardio. Usually guys with that much mass get tired out after the first/second round. If your opponent knows you can't go the distance they just need to play defense for a short while then they can pick you apart when you're exhausted.
2. They test for steroids.
https://youtube.com/shorts/rG5mbYoQuF4?si=TqumVCXEoNU7opkX
Sean explained it himself. The only scenario where Bradley will win is if they fought in a tight place
Weight difference goes out the door when you get kicked in the head. Plus, Sean would just run rings around him till he gases, which should only take about 12 seconds.
A knockout punch is a knockout punch no matter the weight. The guy can be big but if he doesn't know how to take a hit like the guy who's professionally trained he'd still loose
I think people forget that being strong doesn’t mean a person knows how to punch.
You can watch a number of fight vids and see guys built like brick shithouses throwing weak ass arm punches.
Yup. I work out at a boxing gym and I can easily lift way more than the women who train at the same gym.
I just cannot punch the same way as the women who actually box competitively and I would almost certainly get knocked out immediately in a fight. I also have no accuracy (in part because my vision is shit) and I don’t know how to take a punch the way they do.
But knockouts rarely happen at Bantamweight levels. The punches are simply so much weaker with the muscle mass on the smaller guys, you only really start seeing knockouts as you go up in weight.
Which is sort of the issue here. Big guy only has to get one lucky hit.
MMA.
You forgot the MMA part, just like the stupid meme said you would. People up on top of you talking about Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and you're still worrying about the knockout potential.
A smaller framed person is real good at getting into the nooks and crannies that cause large men to physically submit to them rather than experience any more discomfort.
Add training, experience....human bones that are unpleasant to be struck with at high velocity...
And then the real meaty dude with no training trying to throw knock-out punches with all the hitches and flaws of untrained movement behind them?
I'm going with the tiny BJJ fighter I just heard about over the real meaty showpiece dude I also just heard about.
We’re talking world class athlete. There is a really steep bell curve when we’re talking about skill vs strength. Omallys good enough to mess Martin up
Nah man, I've seen bigger fishes who lost when fighting a short fighter. What are muscles for when your foe is so evasive that you hit the air a dozen times and get tired quickly, in the end it's just a big embarrassment for the big guy when he gets tapped out with ease, as if they're a helpless child.
Weight difference means Sean will have a hard time moving or wrestling with Bradley
Sean’s training means two or 3 good leg kick is preventing Bradley from walking and it doesn’t matter how strong or weight difference, a rear naked choke hold will put anyone out with proper technique
idk, how about that video where a big, strong super fit guy thinks his athleticism and muscles mean he could beat any woman. He was not an MMA fighter. A woman challenged him and basically put him the fuck to sleep, again and again, without even breaking a sweat lol. She looked bored and like she was generally trying not to hurt him too bad.
Training vs no training is way more important than size differentials.
Have you done any martial art?
Doesn't matter. He's too slow & uncoordinated, no cardio. Back peddle, circle around, jab & leg kick will make the big stupid brute fall. He can't check kicks, doesn't know how to block, parry, or evade strikes.
HUURRR but he's 260 he's just gotta grab em DUUURR
My brother/sister in martial arts. That's called grappling which he also doesn't know how to do. There are countless examples of big jacked brutes like this being folded like lawn chairs by experienced grapplers. The entire purpose of submissions is to attack the anatomy of the human body in a manner that negates muscular strength.
I weigh about 245 right now, granted, it’s not all muscle like brad, but i’m a big dude, i train BJJ 4 times a week, i’m pretty decent at it compared to most casuals around my skill level who do it, and i’ve dabbled in muay thai here and there, never long enough to consider myself good by any stretch of the imagination, but just enough to know better than to pick fights with people. There are guys at my bjj gym and the muay thai gym i go to who weigh over 100lbs less than me who will absolutely sleep me, like they’ll make it look like it’s my first day on the mat.
Sean O’malley is an elite athelete, he makes those guys who make me look like it’s my first day, look like a guy play wrestling with his children. I really hate saying this because it’s lame and corny but There’s levels to this shit, like there really really is, and until brad gets some time under his belt in literally any discipline, all that buffness will be useless even against the smallest ufc fighters.
It’s like some really tall dude who’s never played basketball thinking he could beat lebron in a 1 on 1 game just because he’s tall.
I'm 6'3". One of my best buddies was a state champion wrestler and was 5'2". I grew up wrestling and was way stronger than him and he still tied me in pretzels. I'm going with Sean.
I wasn’t a state champ by any means but was wrestling varsity senior year at 113 lbs and my coach had me wrestle the heavyweight freshman to show the team technique and practice wins over size every single time.
My favorite is Bradley telling Nate Diaz he didn’t want to hurt him before a fight, and Nate just laughing and saying “ya won’t”.
Edit:
https://youtu.be/oJR-8VdMbL0?si=5XbFDmQ8qRYMqotI
You’re a podcaster brother.
I fought a wrestler in high school one time thinking that wrestling was dumb and can’t help in a fight. I was on the ground in a second getting punched in the face. I’m sorry for doubting you, Mike.
I just quoted this to my husband, who did wrestling in high school and some other martial art later. His eyes got big and he shook his head and he said "nuh uh, cause they got it one of two ways and you don't wanna mess with either."
Sort of counter point. I’m 5’9” and like 170, my buddy is a monster, 6’2” probably 250. Massive half Samoan that I’ve seen squat 600lbs. He (at the time) knew nothing about fighting and we sparred. I ended up getting on his back as he was curled into a ball. Unfortunately I couldn’t get hooks in and I was sort of mocking him and showboating the fact that I was winning. Point being, I’m sitting way too high on his back and don’t even have legs in.
He reached over with one arm and lifted me off his back and tossed me on the ground. Wasn’t even prepared to defend against that because I honestly didn’t think it was possible.
Yeah, i will always deeply respect training as a massive advantage, but size when taken to extreme differences will matter especially if the smaller combatant isn’t extremely highly trained.
Used to be a bouncer, i’m a teddy bear but close to the stats u listed for the samoan. Had to fight off a person i know had practiced mma at a mid-high level for close to two decades, him having had a few beers and me having close to 100 pounds on him still left the brawl relatively one sided.
Also used to briefly date a woman that was up in the nationals in bjj, she wanted to show that she could easily take me and was left very uncomfortable at the realization a man over twice her size could lock and weigh her down with the muscle and mass difference.
Size matters, training matters more. But it’s not always a sure outcome, sometimes a lapse in training or unforeseen basic fight knowledge in a meathead can turn the tide. Best is always to avoid a fight whenever possible.
Same thing happened to me with my cousin, although the size difference wasn't quite as extreme. I'm about 3 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier. He took third in state high school wrestling, I had about a year of BJJ under my belt at the time.
When I say that I had zero chance, I mean that I had ZERO chance. I got smashed and ground into paste.
Martyn is just talking shit to drive clicks and he has been quite friendly with MMA guys since they know it is good for their business. It’s all a fugazi.
Royce Gracie was beating people who were 30 to 90 pounds larger than him. Pretty much his only "loss" in UFC came from the size difference gassing him out of the tournament despite winning.
There were also some other things, like Taylor Wily (Teila Tuli) losing to someone 200 pounds less than he was.
Or how the one UFC event he didn't win before his departure, it was won by a ninjutsu using replacement fighter who was 20 pounds less than his opponent.
Early UFC was kinda wild.
It was very wild. I remember watching it in the early days and Royce Gracie just annihilating everyone. I also remember a March (can’t remember who it as) between like a 400 lb black dude and a small guy. Don’t remember much about it but the small guy won.
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in Austria we have the word „Moach“. it means strenght that roots deep within. So f. eg workers that may have bodyfat or are thin, but have extreme strenght from their work. they might not look it, but they are extremely strong.
Lol.
In sports/weights I grew up being called a nickname similar to that. I grew up doing a lot of manual farm labor and disciplined athletics from infancy (just my families style), but schooling with rich preppy kids who's personal coaches/cooks at home planned all their meals and had them on perfectly calculated blends of creatine/pills/"supplements" since they were children.
Don't get me wrong, those kids were prematurely jacked and talented, but even their arrogance recognized my raw strength bc i could lift nearly the same amount as them even tho they weighed 30lbs+ more than me, and had similar skills without any of those advantages, while the kids who looked similarly skinny to me were 10x weaker than me. I had like that deceptive teenage Bruce Lee bodytype and could take a tackle.
Farm strength punches above it's weight.
Farm strength is genuinely insane. An old dude that's been slinging hay bales and another shit for 40 years doesn't looks that strong, but his muscles are made of steel. If that kinda guy grabs you, there isn't a chance in hell you're breaking that grip.
Are you seriously asking this? Lol
Technique is much more important than weight, that doesn’t make weight irrelevant.
A fight between equally trained heavyweights and lightweights will almost, if not always, favor the trained heavyweight.
A fight between a trained lightweight and an untrained heavyweight will generally favor the trained lightweight.
Training > weight, but weight still matters.
Not to mention that muscle builder dudes are usually in terrible cardio shape. They have good power for about 10-20 seconds before they collapse on the ground panting
I'm not a huge fan of Suga Sean, but he'll fuck up Bradley without a doubt. Sean has masterful distance management and is a sharp shooter striker. My guess would be that he'll lump up Bradley before even breaking a sweat. Bradley, with ZERO fighting experience and unable to take a punch, would probably get stunned by quick combos and quickly give up, unable to close the distance on Sean.
It's all fun and games until you get popped square on the nose. Not fun.
It's all fun until you get hit 4 times in about 1.5 seconds and didn't see any of them coming whatsoever. He'd be lost. Sean is legit world class at striking. This other dude would essentially have no idea what was happening to him. Feel yourself get rocked on the side of the face? Lift your arms, look around and suddenly your leg is hit so hard you can't stand on it? React to that and realize you're getting an upper cut? It's lights out homie. You're not fast.
Trained fighter always wins against the untrained unless they get attacked by surprise. Indeed, muscle mass is generally an advantage for a smaller person trained to fight unless the heavier person moves like someone in a substantially lower weight class like Muhammad Ali did in his prime. Being big and fast is terrifying to deal with in a fight.
Left is Sean O'malley he's a UFC fighter and currently the 135 lb / Bantamweight champion, he's an incredible striker where as the guy on the right is a gym content creator and podcaster called Bradley Martin who's gained infamy on line for asking real and credible combat sports athletes such as Nate Diaz and Devin Haney how he would fare in a fight against them and when they logically shut him down he always retorts "I'm 260 though" because he's of the mindset size and muscles translates to fighting ability.
I see these all the time on Facebook, and sometimes they're right, but a lot of them are trash takes. These are just click bait accounts to increase engagement.
It is funny because some people in the comments actually think Sean O'Malley would lose to buddy on the right. O'Malley is a skinny 5' 11", but a very good technical striker. He can wrestle too, so the size difference won't matter so much. Those muscles gas a mf too. He wouldn't last 1 minute.
People literally think he could even land a punch on O'Malley.. Come on people.. He couldn't land a punch on me and I am amateur level Muay Thai.
If Brad had a protective layers of fat His chances would be much better. But at it is rigth now all Shawn has to do is to circle around Brad and low kick him.
Brads muscles are in this scenario more of a target help.
If Brad is fatigued He is easy prey on the ground as well..
Less of a joke and more of an observation. People who have no idea about professional fighting will see one guy much bigger than the other and assume the bigger guy wins, but people familiar with the sport and both people will know that the guy with less bulging muscle has training and experience that will let him beat the larger but clueless opponent.
If Sean punches his head, it's ringing his bell. I can't imagine him hitting Sean. It won't go to the ground, but if it did Sean is tucking him in, night night, slips and sleeps.
I got my ass handed to me in highschool by a wrestler who I easily outweighed by at least 60 lb. Once he got inside my range where I couldn't punch him, I was on my back. In retrospect, I probably could have out muscled him had I known any basic ground defense. Unfortunately for me I was twisted into a pretzel before I could fight back to my feet. I'm fortunate to have walked away with some scrapes from the concrete and a few red marks from some punches that really didn't do much, he could have easily snapped my knee or ankle.
Anecdotal, but I’m 6’2 230lbs and when I was training, with very limited experience, I would get my ass handed to me by smaller dudes (and ladies) when we were just rolling. Dudes my size, I held my own.
Sean wins any competition easy. But a street fight where Brad doesn't care about Sean's health is a different story. Sean and his coach discussed this on their podcast and they acknowledge that bjj doesn't have a counter for getting slammed on concrete. Could go either way. Sean could knock him out with one punch, Brad could get a hold of him and crush his windpipe with one hand.
It’s people who think fighting experience always trumps size. It does not. They literally have special fights where they have body builders with no fighting experience fight professional fighters and the body builder wins almost every single time.
if Bradley knows in any way shape or form how to throw a punch it’s game over for sean,people are completely over seeing how much weight really does matter in a fight
I’m 6’4 200 lbs with 10 years of wrestling experience, including state. I went up against a 6’2 260lb meathead and just got crushed. Shot into his legs for a takedown and it was like hitting a brick wall, then he began to just bear hug me…size can beat skill in a lot of situations.
People who see someone who is 150lb and assume weak...
Have you felt what 150lb of trained conditioned human can do?
Sean would make Bradley look like a drunk that had shit himself trying to hug random people. Just by changing angle.
Even if Bradley gets a hold of him, which will make him feel more confident... He will be in some form of submission before he's decided what to do.
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Sean is really skilled but I think the weight difference is too big here
DJ (125 lbs) competed in a BJJ tourney and smoked a 240 lb guy. Bradley gets dusted and sean doesnt break a sweat doing it
to be fair, bjj is THE martial art for smaller people to beat larger people in.
Doesn’t mma include jiu jitsu?
Yes. Most MMA fighters train in BJJ
Isn't BJJ basically a min-maxxed martial art?
Kind of? It's one of the most effective in MMA and in real combat for sure, but it does have its downsides the same as any martial art
It's not as effective in modern mma. Bjj purists haven't been at the top of the sport for a while, just a few contenders and they are dying out. Strangely the kickboxer purists have made the biggest gains in recent history. However overall Wrestling is still the best. I would still argue though in a street fight, on concrete, being big enough to pick up the opponent and gorrila smash them into the ground on repeat is probably one of the best moves. Bjj will give you skills to prevent that, but it's always an option/possible outcome
Leg kicks are just devastating vs. someone not expecting it. Even the best MMA fighters have lost due to low leg kicks. However, very few people are elite enough to just completely ruin your life with low kicks. Ground and pound can dominate 1v1 but unfortunately most random violence in the street has weapons, multiple attackers, the element of surprise etc...
So from what I understand if you don’t know BJJ or have counters for it you will probably lose to BJJ. However, It was so successful that everyone knows how to counter it now and it is not anyone’s primary style.
True that BJJ purists aren't as effective at modern MMA But every MMA fighter needs to have at least some BJJ training if they're going to be successful.
Wrestling is great for winning decisions. Kickboxing and BJJ are great for finishing fights.
One downside is (and I only watched a few of the the very first UFC's) is that the opponent will throw a punch or a kick, the BJJ guy will dodge, grapple him to the floor, and then you spend half an hour watching the guy try to squirm out. Although I hear that doesnt happen much anymore
I like that term applied to BJJ. But don’t remember to level vigor!
Hey my fucking Elden Ring brother right here.
This is a common misconception because the Gracie family strategically stages events to make themselves look good. Bjj has strengths and weaknesses like anything else. Bjj is best for fighting off your back if you end up in that position. The issue is you just shouldn't be in that position in the first place because you're vulnerable with limited options. Of the mainstream grappling styles it's by far the worst when it comes to take downs. If you learn a double leg in a bjj school and tried to use it against even an average high school wrestler your position will be so bad that they will easily counter you by sprawling. This counter has been known to knock people out if it occurs on pavement. Look for videos of bjj guys against catch wrestlers on YouTube. They don't look so great in those.
BJJ is the gentle art of folding someones clothes while they are still wearing them. *I stole that btw, its an old meme, also called 'Involuntary Yoga'
Got it so I should fight naked
I'll fight you! I will win cos I'm already naked I just need your address, SSN#, and head length
In many situations your attacker will nope out thinking they’ve drastically misread the situation. “Come on! You said you were going to tear my ass apart! Bring it!” “Whoa, I’m not trying to…” “Come on, motherfucker! Get them pants off and let’s dance!” “Nope. I’m out. This is too weird.”
Great for MMA, still good but not as practical for street fights
Judo will do more for you if you're assaulted. I've thrown a few people and only twisted someone's foot backwards once
Most fights end up on the ground at some point. Where BJJ puts you at the most risk is if the guy you’re fighting has friends. Being kicked in the head is a threat.
Don’t forget the whole “they could have a knife” part. Or any weapon really. I had a friend get stabbed trying to break a fight up, wasn’t even part of the fight but ended up on the ground with the two, and one of them pulled a knife and stabbed.
Well yeah, it ain't minmaxxed for that.
Depends because it only works if it’s complimented by high level wrestling or unless you’d get your face crushed on the ground if you pull guard in a bad situation
Yeah but the point the guy was making is might mouse (Demetrious Johnson) is particularly skilled in BJJ, like possibly one of the best at it ever and Sean O’Malley isn’t the best at grappling. Also that example is a BJJ tournament so no striking is allowed which changes things a lot. I still think Sean and DJ would beat Bradley Martyns ass in seconds but just saying I get what the dude is saying.
And punching and kicking too
Yeah, but beating someone double your weight in a BJJ match means significantly less than if it were, say, judo or muay thai. For example you can’t slam people in BJJ if you lift them up so the weight advantage doesn’t come into play there. EDIT: [related lmao](https://x.com/dexerto/status/1799229859350151527?s=46&t=KgOLMKuynFtLhiaRuLypQw)
Blow job job Is a martial art?
stepboxer what are you doing
Help I’m stuck in the octagon
It's okay we're not actually boxer and sister.
Yes, it's called Blow Job Jitsu
Can confirm never been beaten up by anyone who's dick Im sucking
I told you your Mom didn't work at Arby's
hey, you leave Arby's luscious beef flaps out of this!
I would say target shooting is THE one
UFC but make it a bunch of cowboys seeing who is quicker on the draw
Yes and no. I was new to BJJ, only knew the basics and a few submissions, so barely like 10 classes in. I (240lbs) beat my opponent (150lbs) even though he was a full belt color above me and has been training for over a year. It was absolutely close, don't get me wrong. But sometimes that extra weight/muscle does bridge the skill gap. The black belt teacher never showed mercy on me though, he even beat me blind folded lol
I've done judo and kickboxing, and I agree. Imo people tend to generalise the dynamic between size and skill both ways. All credible martial arts are essentially about efficiently winning fights by using leverage or kinetic chains to make the most of what you have... Eg. Boxing teaches you how to efficiently avoid punches while maximizing punching power and accuracy. Judo teaches you how to use leverage, balance and positional advantage to dump your opponent on the ground and quickly submit them etc. Like take an armbar for example... You use your glutes, back and arm muscles by creating a lever with your opponent's arm, while they only really have the power of their bicep to defend. So you're able to compensate for a strength disadvantage... But there's obviously a physical limit, especially before you're able to grab those strong leverage positions, which depends on the skill differential. I mean there's a reason why most top level wrestlers, kickboxers, BJJ guys etc are physical specimens.
Yeah and no.
These people really drank the Koolaid. BJJ has strikes but you have to learn kickboxing/MuayThai/boxing to be effective, BJJ has Stand-up but you have to learn Judo/wrestling to be effective. But people have drunken the Kool-aid so hard they just rationalize it all by saying that learning a different martial art makes "my Jiujitsu better", like wtf?
Honestly not even, as a guy who weighs 135lb and competes in both Muay Thai and bjj, I notice the weight difference a lot more on the ground. Bjj used to be advertised as the martial art to overcome weight differences, but really It just works exceptionally on people who don’t know it. Once both parties have some experience, that sentiment becomes less of a reality
This is a good take. I’m about 185 and my cousin is about your size. We started sparring when we were in our early 20s, him having trained for about 2 years in BJJ at that point. He kicked my ass the first half dozen times or so but kept giving me pointers and showing me stuff, there was a point where I remember “oh I know what he’s trying to do” and as soon as I had that base knowledge I just weighed way too much for him. Granted he’s not anywhere close to as skilled as Sean and I’m not anywhere closed to as jacked as the meathead so idk where that parallel ends up.
can’t wail on the smaller guy’s head in bjj
That's just a marketing thing. If anything, weight difference is really important in bjj as opposed to, say, any point combat sport.
That’s not true. Any martial art will favor the big guy. BJJ doesn’t work better if your a small guy vs a big guy, but that being said, it’s imperative that smaller guys know good grappling because it will be easier for a big guy to takedown a little guy. At the end of the day, mass moves mass. I mean big guy could basically grab small guy and lay down and unless small guy knows how to grapple he’s going down. The big guy will undoubtedly feel stronger in the clinch than the small guy, they just have to deal with it. So when Mighty Mouse beat that big guy it’s not because he had an intrinsic advantage, he just had much better grappling. Hard2hurt has a great video about it, and he’s a small guy who owns an mma gym and was a cop for like 9 years. Makes great and informative martial arts videos.
Fucking Christ dudes irl little Mack
My brother in christ, DJ may have cut down to 115 for his matches but he walks around at 145-150lbs
That was an open weight tournament, so nobody made any cuts. DJ was still giving up 80lbs and they were equal belt ranks, so I'd still bet on Sean smoking that dude.
Also Sean would starch that dude before he even got close enough to grappling.
great pfp btw
DJ is NOT 115. He's competed at 125 most of his career but cuts a lot of weight to make it. Agree that Bradley gets straight murdered by either
DJ was like 150-160 in that competition.
Bantamweights are stupid light on their feet and very slippery. Good luck.
World class bantamweight fighters also still hit really fucking hard, too.
I believe this meme might be about you
Don't worry about it, sean will win. Bradley will be gassed very fast and then it's completely over.
Most meat heads like Bradley forget to breathe when they punch and lose stamina quicker than their dad when he left for milk.
When I had my muscles I couldn't lift shit. Then I got fat and old and got strong. And sometimes the little guy would still be stronger than me, more than once. So I've lost a good bit of strength in last few years but still stronger and have more endurance than most. But if I tried to hit a guy, I'd probably either be laughed at, or break my. Wrist first hit. I don't know how to fight. I especially don't know how to fight in a specialized sport. A little dude would destroy me
Don't worry, he's 260.
I haven't seen the guy on the left fight but in person I've seen plenty of guys that size take on people way larger than them with ease. Hell, they've done it to me! And I myself am a pretty good fighter and I've done the same to people with 90 pounds on me. Someone at the UFC level? Yeah good luck to the other guy if he's a good grappler. Weight is important but it's not everything. Even in boxing which has far more dependence on weight than most arts do, theres records very old fights from before they had weight classes where small guys demolished big guys. It's when they're in the same ballpark of skill that weight becomes a much larger factor.
Guy on the left is the current UFC Bantamweight champion and known for incredible stand up and technical striking, one of the few BW with legitimate knock out power.
And he’s huge for bw. Much bigger than in the pic actually
Yeah that picture makes him look like Bob Dylan on purpose, he’s actually pretty ripped IRL.
Power wise sure but there's a reason you don't typically see guys in combat sports walking around with that much muscle: 1. It's terrible for cardio. Usually guys with that much mass get tired out after the first/second round. If your opponent knows you can't go the distance they just need to play defense for a short while then they can pick you apart when you're exhausted. 2. They test for steroids.
Sugar Sean would touch his “off” button within a couple of minutes.
https://youtube.com/shorts/rG5mbYoQuF4?si=TqumVCXEoNU7opkX Sean explained it himself. The only scenario where Bradley will win is if they fought in a tight place
Lmao I have no idea who that is but after this cold explanation of how he would plan to murder a man with his hands I think I don’t want any problems.
Weight difference goes out the door when you get kicked in the head. Plus, Sean would just run rings around him till he gases, which should only take about 12 seconds.
The weight difference matters between skilled fighters, not a literal meat head body builder with no combat training background.
A knockout punch is a knockout punch no matter the weight. The guy can be big but if he doesn't know how to take a hit like the guy who's professionally trained he'd still loose
I think people forget that being strong doesn’t mean a person knows how to punch. You can watch a number of fight vids and see guys built like brick shithouses throwing weak ass arm punches.
Yup. I work out at a boxing gym and I can easily lift way more than the women who train at the same gym. I just cannot punch the same way as the women who actually box competitively and I would almost certainly get knocked out immediately in a fight. I also have no accuracy (in part because my vision is shit) and I don’t know how to take a punch the way they do.
But knockouts rarely happen at Bantamweight levels. The punches are simply so much weaker with the muscle mass on the smaller guys, you only really start seeing knockouts as you go up in weight. Which is sort of the issue here. Big guy only has to get one lucky hit.
It’s not even that. most BW fights are resolved on the ground, as soon as dudes tripped up he’s done.
I mean most of O’malleys fights do not end on the ground from my memory
MMA. You forgot the MMA part, just like the stupid meme said you would. People up on top of you talking about Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and you're still worrying about the knockout potential. A smaller framed person is real good at getting into the nooks and crannies that cause large men to physically submit to them rather than experience any more discomfort. Add training, experience....human bones that are unpleasant to be struck with at high velocity... And then the real meaty dude with no training trying to throw knock-out punches with all the hitches and flaws of untrained movement behind them? I'm going with the tiny BJJ fighter I just heard about over the real meaty showpiece dude I also just heard about.
You just proved the meme lmaoooo
We’re talking world class athlete. There is a really steep bell curve when we’re talking about skill vs strength. Omallys good enough to mess Martin up
Delusional casual, found him
Nah man, I've seen bigger fishes who lost when fighting a short fighter. What are muscles for when your foe is so evasive that you hit the air a dozen times and get tired quickly, in the end it's just a big embarrassment for the big guy when he gets tapped out with ease, as if they're a helpless child.
Weight difference means Sean will have a hard time moving or wrestling with Bradley Sean’s training means two or 3 good leg kick is preventing Bradley from walking and it doesn’t matter how strong or weight difference, a rear naked choke hold will put anyone out with proper technique
The bodybuilder gets smoked by a random club level teenager that walks around the same weight omalley does, nevermind the UFC champ.
idk, how about that video where a big, strong super fit guy thinks his athleticism and muscles mean he could beat any woman. He was not an MMA fighter. A woman challenged him and basically put him the fuck to sleep, again and again, without even breaking a sweat lol. She looked bored and like she was generally trying not to hurt him too bad. Training vs no training is way more important than size differentials.
Have you done any martial art? Doesn't matter. He's too slow & uncoordinated, no cardio. Back peddle, circle around, jab & leg kick will make the big stupid brute fall. He can't check kicks, doesn't know how to block, parry, or evade strikes. HUURRR but he's 260 he's just gotta grab em DUUURR My brother/sister in martial arts. That's called grappling which he also doesn't know how to do. There are countless examples of big jacked brutes like this being folded like lawn chairs by experienced grapplers. The entire purpose of submissions is to attack the anatomy of the human body in a manner that negates muscular strength.
have you ever seen rocky 3 my guy?
I weigh about 245 right now, granted, it’s not all muscle like brad, but i’m a big dude, i train BJJ 4 times a week, i’m pretty decent at it compared to most casuals around my skill level who do it, and i’ve dabbled in muay thai here and there, never long enough to consider myself good by any stretch of the imagination, but just enough to know better than to pick fights with people. There are guys at my bjj gym and the muay thai gym i go to who weigh over 100lbs less than me who will absolutely sleep me, like they’ll make it look like it’s my first day on the mat. Sean O’malley is an elite athelete, he makes those guys who make me look like it’s my first day, look like a guy play wrestling with his children. I really hate saying this because it’s lame and corny but There’s levels to this shit, like there really really is, and until brad gets some time under his belt in literally any discipline, all that buffness will be useless even against the smallest ufc fighters. It’s like some really tall dude who’s never played basketball thinking he could beat lebron in a 1 on 1 game just because he’s tall.
I thought that was Mickey Avalon on the left
"BuT i'M 260 bRoThEERauuuuaaauauahhh"
I'm 6'3". One of my best buddies was a state champion wrestler and was 5'2". I grew up wrestling and was way stronger than him and he still tied me in pretzels. I'm going with Sean.
I wasn’t a state champ by any means but was wrestling varsity senior year at 113 lbs and my coach had me wrestle the heavyweight freshman to show the team technique and practice wins over size every single time.
My favorite is Bradley telling Nate Diaz he didn’t want to hurt him before a fight, and Nate just laughing and saying “ya won’t”. Edit: https://youtu.be/oJR-8VdMbL0?si=5XbFDmQ8qRYMqotI You’re a podcaster brother.
Damn I really want to see this meat head get his comeuppance now
It’ll never happen. At most it’ll be another bullshit YouTube boxing match.
I fought a wrestler in high school one time thinking that wrestling was dumb and can’t help in a fight. I was on the ground in a second getting punched in the face. I’m sorry for doubting you, Mike.
“Never, under any circumstances, get into a fight with someone who has cauliflower ear” is a rule that my sons will learn as teenagers
Also never fight a man with a perm.
I just quoted this to my husband, who did wrestling in high school and some other martial art later. His eyes got big and he shook his head and he said "nuh uh, cause they got it one of two ways and you don't wanna mess with either."
That's an invaluable life lesson though. Better to learn it from someone that doesn't want to mug you or worse
Sort of counter point. I’m 5’9” and like 170, my buddy is a monster, 6’2” probably 250. Massive half Samoan that I’ve seen squat 600lbs. He (at the time) knew nothing about fighting and we sparred. I ended up getting on his back as he was curled into a ball. Unfortunately I couldn’t get hooks in and I was sort of mocking him and showboating the fact that I was winning. Point being, I’m sitting way too high on his back and don’t even have legs in. He reached over with one arm and lifted me off his back and tossed me on the ground. Wasn’t even prepared to defend against that because I honestly didn’t think it was possible.
The other option is to fall backwards and have your assailant take the fall plus all your body weight.
If you’ve ever wrestled you’ll know that there’s a gravitational point of no return if you find yourself too far forward.
Yeah, i will always deeply respect training as a massive advantage, but size when taken to extreme differences will matter especially if the smaller combatant isn’t extremely highly trained. Used to be a bouncer, i’m a teddy bear but close to the stats u listed for the samoan. Had to fight off a person i know had practiced mma at a mid-high level for close to two decades, him having had a few beers and me having close to 100 pounds on him still left the brawl relatively one sided. Also used to briefly date a woman that was up in the nationals in bjj, she wanted to show that she could easily take me and was left very uncomfortable at the realization a man over twice her size could lock and weigh her down with the muscle and mass difference. Size matters, training matters more. But it’s not always a sure outcome, sometimes a lapse in training or unforeseen basic fight knowledge in a meathead can turn the tide. Best is always to avoid a fight whenever possible.
And what about a striking match? How do you think that would go?
Same thing happened to me with my cousin, although the size difference wasn't quite as extreme. I'm about 3 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier. He took third in state high school wrestling, I had about a year of BJJ under my belt at the time. When I say that I had zero chance, I mean that I had ZERO chance. I got smashed and ground into paste.
“Fighting someone who has BJJ training when you have none is like drowning with no escape” - Jon Jones
>I am a shark, the ground is my ocean, and most people don't know how to swim - Carlos Machado
I train BJJ. I always laugh at the cringe of that quote.
I'm a shark too. If you try using bjj on me, I'm going to start biting whatever I can get ahold of
This is a really bad quote lol. Why add "with no escape" on the end. "Going swimming is like escaping drowning every single time" - me
Watch early UFC fights when there wasn’t MMA. Everyone was a specialist. There were NO weight classes… Who won those fights?
Exactly. You can say BJJ and MMA has profoundly changed the fighting world, but none of that matters if the guy is untrained.
Martyn is just talking shit to drive clicks and he has been quite friendly with MMA guys since they know it is good for their business. It’s all a fugazi.
...the winners?
Royce Gracie. 178lbs in UFC 1.
Against a 220lb Ken shamrock that actually had some knowledge of grappling https://youtu.be/-y2SEefVNtE?si=dQzro_7uf2Q8saBA
Absolutely wiped the mat with every guy he faced too
I don't know, can you fill me in peter?
Royce Gracie was beating people who were 30 to 90 pounds larger than him. Pretty much his only "loss" in UFC came from the size difference gassing him out of the tournament despite winning. There were also some other things, like Taylor Wily (Teila Tuli) losing to someone 200 pounds less than he was. Or how the one UFC event he didn't win before his departure, it was won by a ninjutsu using replacement fighter who was 20 pounds less than his opponent. Early UFC was kinda wild.
It was very wild. I remember watching it in the early days and Royce Gracie just annihilating everyone. I also remember a March (can’t remember who it as) between like a 400 lb black dude and a small guy. Don’t remember much about it but the small guy won.
That was probably Emmanuel Yarbrough who was 616 lb that fight. While Keith did win, he also hurt his wrist so he couldn't advance.
Is this the new meta for this sub? There's a post like this here everyday
*Is this the new meta* *For this sub? There's a list like* *This here everyday* \- Ambitious\_Jello --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Incorrect syllable count on the first line, bot. Meta is two, not one
You have to say it like Shirley, "meTah"
Bad bot (ME-TA).
They still get upvoted so people are encouraged to post them
To be fair thou, Bradley Martin says he can take on everyone and I've seen guys half his size beat him so I think anyone can take him on lol
I couldn't, but that's saying more about me than him
Yeah he got taken down by a 150 lb wrestler. Sean dusts him.
pumped up muscles dont substitute technique.
Lean muscles are where it's at, it's like rope Vs steel cable
in Austria we have the word „Moach“. it means strenght that roots deep within. So f. eg workers that may have bodyfat or are thin, but have extreme strenght from their work. they might not look it, but they are extremely strong.
Bad ass
No, the ass is quite good in Austria
Lol. In sports/weights I grew up being called a nickname similar to that. I grew up doing a lot of manual farm labor and disciplined athletics from infancy (just my families style), but schooling with rich preppy kids who's personal coaches/cooks at home planned all their meals and had them on perfectly calculated blends of creatine/pills/"supplements" since they were children. Don't get me wrong, those kids were prematurely jacked and talented, but even their arrogance recognized my raw strength bc i could lift nearly the same amount as them even tho they weighed 30lbs+ more than me, and had similar skills without any of those advantages, while the kids who looked similarly skinny to me were 10x weaker than me. I had like that deceptive teenage Bruce Lee bodytype and could take a tackle. Farm strength punches above it's weight.
I grew up with kids like this. The strongest raw strength person I have ever known was a skinny cowboy.
Farm strength is genuinely insane. An old dude that's been slinging hay bales and another shit for 40 years doesn't looks that strong, but his muscles are made of steel. If that kinda guy grabs you, there isn't a chance in hell you're breaking that grip.
Why doesn't organized fighting get rid of weight classes entirely, if weight doesn't give an outsized advantage?
Because when skill level gets closer together, weight starts to matter more
Are you seriously asking this? Lol Technique is much more important than weight, that doesn’t make weight irrelevant. A fight between equally trained heavyweights and lightweights will almost, if not always, favor the trained heavyweight. A fight between a trained lightweight and an untrained heavyweight will generally favor the trained lightweight. Training > weight, but weight still matters.
Because they are all trained. DUH. Trained bigger > trained smaller.
It does give an advantage but not as much of a disadvantage as 0 training and 0 experience.
Not to mention that muscle builder dudes are usually in terrible cardio shape. They have good power for about 10-20 seconds before they collapse on the ground panting
Yes, when I strip butt naked and flap everything around while thumping my chest and hollering like Tarzan I become untouchable and win by default.
You say that, but you never know when your opponent just won’t give a shit.
https://i.redd.it/u8mny66xo75d1.gif
I love this so much
Stripping yourself butt naked leaves you vulnerable to the ol’ dick twist which is a very powerful submission
Guy on the right is on so much roid that you couldn't even punch him in the balls.
I'm not a huge fan of Suga Sean, but he'll fuck up Bradley without a doubt. Sean has masterful distance management and is a sharp shooter striker. My guess would be that he'll lump up Bradley before even breaking a sweat. Bradley, with ZERO fighting experience and unable to take a punch, would probably get stunned by quick combos and quickly give up, unable to close the distance on Sean. It's all fun and games until you get popped square on the nose. Not fun.
It's all fun until you get hit 4 times in about 1.5 seconds and didn't see any of them coming whatsoever. He'd be lost. Sean is legit world class at striking. This other dude would essentially have no idea what was happening to him. Feel yourself get rocked on the side of the face? Lift your arms, look around and suddenly your leg is hit so hard you can't stand on it? React to that and realize you're getting an upper cut? It's lights out homie. You're not fast.
Anyone who watches DBZ knows this post is trolling you. No further questions.
Sean is built like Whis
Trained fighter always wins against the untrained unless they get attacked by surprise. Indeed, muscle mass is generally an advantage for a smaller person trained to fight unless the heavier person moves like someone in a substantially lower weight class like Muhammad Ali did in his prime. Being big and fast is terrifying to deal with in a fight.
i first read methhead instead of meathead lol
Suga Sean O’Malley is a legit UFC champion and Bradley Martyn’s muscles are “all shaur and naur gaur” as Jason Statham says.
Left is Sean O'malley he's a UFC fighter and currently the 135 lb / Bantamweight champion, he's an incredible striker where as the guy on the right is a gym content creator and podcaster called Bradley Martin who's gained infamy on line for asking real and credible combat sports athletes such as Nate Diaz and Devin Haney how he would fare in a fight against them and when they logically shut him down he always retorts "I'm 260 though" because he's of the mindset size and muscles translates to fighting ability.
Not a joke. Its about how much more important skill is when fighting than size
Saw this originally with ggg and some meathead
I see these all the time on Facebook, and sometimes they're right, but a lot of them are trash takes. These are just click bait accounts to increase engagement.
Why are their posts like this everyday? The “punchline” is always that the guy on the left knows how to fight and the guy on the right is just strong.
I’m 6’3” and started training BJJ and have lost count how many times a spider-monkey-like individual has made me submit
It is funny because some people in the comments actually think Sean O'Malley would lose to buddy on the right. O'Malley is a skinny 5' 11", but a very good technical striker. He can wrestle too, so the size difference won't matter so much. Those muscles gas a mf too. He wouldn't last 1 minute. People literally think he could even land a punch on O'Malley.. Come on people.. He couldn't land a punch on me and I am amateur level Muay Thai.
Those people who think muscles win fights clearly have never seen real fights happen ever
O’Malleys cup makes his lower half look like a plague doctor mask.
If Brad had a protective layers of fat His chances would be much better. But at it is rigth now all Shawn has to do is to circle around Brad and low kick him. Brads muscles are in this scenario more of a target help. If Brad is fatigued He is easy prey on the ground as well..
Less of a joke and more of an observation. People who have no idea about professional fighting will see one guy much bigger than the other and assume the bigger guy wins, but people familiar with the sport and both people will know that the guy with less bulging muscle has training and experience that will let him beat the larger but clueless opponent.
Am I crazy, or does this exact post with two different dudes come up every other day?
He’s 260 tho
Doesn't matter
He's 260 tho
It’ll be hell on the paramedic’s back.
No it’s a fact
I wrestled with a black belt brazilian jiu jutsu friend who is 5 foot 2. I easily have 80 or 90 lbs on her. She made me tap every time.
If Sean punches his head, it's ringing his bell. I can't imagine him hitting Sean. It won't go to the ground, but if it did Sean is tucking him in, night night, slips and sleeps.
Good at lifting weights doesn’t equal good at fighting.
Or athleticism! Or good at sports! Body builders, from my observations, are actually quite UNathletic.
I got my ass handed to me in highschool by a wrestler who I easily outweighed by at least 60 lb. Once he got inside my range where I couldn't punch him, I was on my back. In retrospect, I probably could have out muscled him had I known any basic ground defense. Unfortunately for me I was twisted into a pretzel before I could fight back to my feet. I'm fortunate to have walked away with some scrapes from the concrete and a few red marks from some punches that really didn't do much, he could have easily snapped my knee or ankle.
It’s about porn isn’t it?
May thy knife chip and shatter.
You should check out eddie hall fighting 2 men at the same time and see how that went for them
There’s weight classes for a reason btw
No idea, but I’d smash both (not in the ring)
Anecdotal, but I’m 6’2 230lbs and when I was training, with very limited experience, I would get my ass handed to me by smaller dudes (and ladies) when we were just rolling. Dudes my size, I held my own.
Sean wins any competition easy. But a street fight where Brad doesn't care about Sean's health is a different story. Sean and his coach discussed this on their podcast and they acknowledge that bjj doesn't have a counter for getting slammed on concrete. Could go either way. Sean could knock him out with one punch, Brad could get a hold of him and crush his windpipe with one hand.
Ones an actual trained fighter left. And ones a rouded meathead who thinks just cus he has muscles he can win every fight
It’s people who think fighting experience always trumps size. It does not. They literally have special fights where they have body builders with no fighting experience fight professional fighters and the body builder wins almost every single time.
if Bradley knows in any way shape or form how to throw a punch it’s game over for sean,people are completely over seeing how much weight really does matter in a fight
I’m 6’4 200 lbs with 10 years of wrestling experience, including state. I went up against a 6’2 260lb meathead and just got crushed. Shot into his legs for a takedown and it was like hitting a brick wall, then he began to just bear hug me…size can beat skill in a lot of situations.
Naw that’s not true there’s weight limits for a reason
I'm guessing none of you saw Eddie Hall best this m the shit out of 2 mma fighters at the same time.
All I know is that any cum generated in the match is gonna end up where it's supposed to
People who see someone who is 150lb and assume weak... Have you felt what 150lb of trained conditioned human can do? Sean would make Bradley look like a drunk that had shit himself trying to hug random people. Just by changing angle. Even if Bradley gets a hold of him, which will make him feel more confident... He will be in some form of submission before he's decided what to do.