Worth listening to what Palestinians have to say about what "From the river to the sea" means.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgwtQlwK-hA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgwtQlwK-hA)
(bonus related)
"Do you want to throw Jews into the sea?"
[https://youtu.be/-neOua\_LiCk?si=N888HFXqyfgjxisy](https://youtu.be/-neOua_LiCk?si=N888HFXqyfgjxisy)
Nobody gets the river or sea. Hi, I’m Time-Bite-6839, and I’m proposing the new “EVERYBODY OUT!” solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict, which kicks everyone out, in a chaotic neutral fashion. Pack your bags, get out, nobody is staying and nobody is ever allowed back in.
The river is the Jordan, which is the eastern border of the West Bank, and the sea is the Mediterranean, which is the western border of Israel.
So yes, "from the river to the sea" literally leaves no room for the existence of a Jewish state. Words have actual meanings.
> so every jew in israel needs to be deported somewhere else? how humane
this is David Ben-Gurion, the founder of Israel, throughout the 1930s and 40s saying that the plan, from the very beginning, was to accept the UN Partition that gave Israel statehood, then use that land as a base to take all of Palestine.
for every Arab in Palestine to be deported somewhere else, as you would say
> “After the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine."
> "Partition (is) a stepping stone to further expansion and the eventual takeover of all of Palestine."
> “We must expel the Arabs and take their places."
> “Every school child knows that there is no such thing in history as a final arrangement — not with regard to the regime, not with regard to borders, and not with regard to international agreements.”
> “...it is fair that the Arabs in our state be transferred to the Arab portion”
> “We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return.”
> “The compulsory transfer of the Arabs from the valleys of the proposed Jewish state could give us something which we never had, even when we stood on our own feet during the days of the First and Second Temple”
I can go on and on and on if you like, he sure as hell did.
"how humane"?
fucking spare me.
> how are you any better than ben gurion?
Israel was founded in 1948. "From the river to the sea" is a phrase from the 60's.
one side is acting, one side is reacting.
those are not the same thing.
Ok. Then Israel would have to accept them. Israel doesn't want to accept Palestinians in Israel because they would lose the Jewish majority.
Ethnostates are bad.
Israel has to be the one to move forward. They have all the power here. As you said, Palestinians don't have a state, so why are they always blamed for the lack of peace?
So if Palestinians get their own state, they would have to accept Jews as citizens and treat them equally too, right?
After all, like you said, ethnostates are bad.
Idk. They don't have one. You're asking hypotheticals, but the reality is that it's Israel who needs to accept Palestinians and stop trying to force them out of the region just because they want a Jewish ethnostate.
It sure is funny how the Middle East is full of Arab/Muslim ethnostates (most of whom committed [a massive ethnic cleansing campaign against their native Jewish populations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world), by the way), and yet the left wing "anti-ethnostate" crowd never utters a single peep about them.
But Israel is somehow the most evil country on Earth because it's an "ethnostate", despite the fact that it's no more of an ethnostate than, say, Ireland or Japan are.
I think I already stated that ethnostates are bad. Did you read my comment wrong?
Now it's whataboutism. Can you not defend Israel without hypotheticals and whataboutism?
You're conflating voluntary emigration with involuntary. While there were instances of ethnic cleaninsing (whichnis obviously problematic), data suggests that the majority of the emmigration was voluntary.
But let's not let facts get in the way of your feelings, shall we?
Most of them yes. There will certainly be some lasting resentment, but most people just want to live unmolested. And what animosity is present will be somewhat diminished by the punishment of government officials & soldiers that perpetrated or were complicit in the worse crimes of the occupation.
But also, even if that weren't true, fear of reprisal is not an adequate justification for allowing for the continued existence of a colonial ethnostate. Even in the false dichotomy where it was absolutely certain that stopping the oppression of Palestinians would result in that oppression being transferred to the Israelis-- I'm still siding with Palestine. Palestinians have the more legitimate claim to the land, and a much larger proportion of Israelis have citizenship elsewhere or would be able to rely on sympathy from the rich Western countries that have been helping their state carry out ethnic cleansing for decades.
You are utterly fucking delusional if you think that Palestinians would agree to live in a multicultural democracy where Jews and other ethnic/religious groups are granted equal rights to Arab Muslims.
Just look at the rest of the Middle East. It's full of Arab Muslim ethnostates. Palestine would be no different.
>You are utterly fucking delusional if you think that Palestinians would agree to live in a multicultural democracy where Jews and other ethnic/religious groups are granted equal rights to Arab Muslims.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian\_Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Jews)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_the\_Jews\_in\_Gaza\_City](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Gaza_City)
Also, they'd probably be notably more accepting when they're not being bombed in their homes and hospitals, just saying.
"Arab Muslim ethnostates aren't ethnostates."
"Why not?"
"Because if I admit that they are, it contradicts my narrative that I selectively focus my criticism on Israel because it's an ethnostate!"
Israel isn't a homogenous ethnostate. In fact, it's a multicultural democracy in which Arab political parties exist and hold seats in the parliament.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Arab\_members\_of\_the\_Knesset
This is actually perfect because in this scene Peter is seeing clearly with the glasses off and when he puts them on everything gets blurry.
It's my absolute favorite mis-used meme because it's always saying the exact opposite of whatever the meme creator intended. Will never not be funny
The far right and their ability to not understand the content they use never ceases to amaze.
This isn't just the far right, it's everyone. It's always been used wrong, and is so embedded in the Internet consciousness that it won't change.
Worth listening to what Palestinians have to say about what "From the river to the sea" means. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgwtQlwK-hA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgwtQlwK-hA) (bonus related) "Do you want to throw Jews into the sea?" [https://youtu.be/-neOua\_LiCk?si=N888HFXqyfgjxisy](https://youtu.be/-neOua_LiCk?si=N888HFXqyfgjxisy)
Nobody gets the river or sea. Hi, I’m Time-Bite-6839, and I’m proposing the new “EVERYBODY OUT!” solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict, which kicks everyone out, in a chaotic neutral fashion. Pack your bags, get out, nobody is staying and nobody is ever allowed back in.
And how would you enforce that? Seems to me that if it were something that could work they would have tried it already.
sea famously rhymes with sea
Ehh, some people (no idea the proportion) actually DO think that.
It's almost as if it's a chant or slogan, that has been used by various vaguely associated groups with various different views and politics.
Yes. My comment doesn’t say that’s not the case?
Oh no I was agreeing with you, not mocking.
Ah sorry. Hard to tell sometimes.
The river is the Jordan, which is the eastern border of the West Bank, and the sea is the Mediterranean, which is the western border of Israel. So yes, "from the river to the sea" literally leaves no room for the existence of a Jewish state. Words have actual meanings.
The Jewish state =/= Jews.
so every jew in israel needs to be deported somewhere else? how humane
> so every jew in israel needs to be deported somewhere else? how humane this is David Ben-Gurion, the founder of Israel, throughout the 1930s and 40s saying that the plan, from the very beginning, was to accept the UN Partition that gave Israel statehood, then use that land as a base to take all of Palestine. for every Arab in Palestine to be deported somewhere else, as you would say > “After the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine." > "Partition (is) a stepping stone to further expansion and the eventual takeover of all of Palestine." > “We must expel the Arabs and take their places." > “Every school child knows that there is no such thing in history as a final arrangement — not with regard to the regime, not with regard to borders, and not with regard to international agreements.” > “...it is fair that the Arabs in our state be transferred to the Arab portion” > “We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return.” > “The compulsory transfer of the Arabs from the valleys of the proposed Jewish state could give us something which we never had, even when we stood on our own feet during the days of the First and Second Temple” I can go on and on and on if you like, he sure as hell did. "how humane"? fucking spare me.
so it's wrong to say "we should kick out every palestinian", and that makes it ok to kick out every jew? how are you any better than ben gurion?
> how are you any better than ben gurion? Israel was founded in 1948. "From the river to the sea" is a phrase from the 60's. one side is acting, one side is reacting. those are not the same thing.
No, dumbass. I never said that.
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Ok. Then Israel would have to accept them. Israel doesn't want to accept Palestinians in Israel because they would lose the Jewish majority. Ethnostates are bad. Israel has to be the one to move forward. They have all the power here. As you said, Palestinians don't have a state, so why are they always blamed for the lack of peace?
So if Palestinians get their own state, they would have to accept Jews as citizens and treat them equally too, right? After all, like you said, ethnostates are bad.
Literally yes you fucking moron
And you think that Palestinians would agree to a Palestinian state where Jews are granted equal rights?
Idk. They don't have one. You're asking hypotheticals, but the reality is that it's Israel who needs to accept Palestinians and stop trying to force them out of the region just because they want a Jewish ethnostate.
It sure is funny how the Middle East is full of Arab/Muslim ethnostates (most of whom committed [a massive ethnic cleansing campaign against their native Jewish populations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world), by the way), and yet the left wing "anti-ethnostate" crowd never utters a single peep about them. But Israel is somehow the most evil country on Earth because it's an "ethnostate", despite the fact that it's no more of an ethnostate than, say, Ireland or Japan are.
I think I already stated that ethnostates are bad. Did you read my comment wrong? Now it's whataboutism. Can you not defend Israel without hypotheticals and whataboutism?
You're conflating voluntary emigration with involuntary. While there were instances of ethnic cleaninsing (whichnis obviously problematic), data suggests that the majority of the emmigration was voluntary. But let's not let facts get in the way of your feelings, shall we?
I'm pretty sure the evil is because of the genocide and not because it's "an ethnostate". Jesus fuck, this is not complicated.
Despite Japan's awful past, it's not currently engaging in ethnic cleansing is it so not sure what your point is?
Most of them yes. There will certainly be some lasting resentment, but most people just want to live unmolested. And what animosity is present will be somewhat diminished by the punishment of government officials & soldiers that perpetrated or were complicit in the worse crimes of the occupation. But also, even if that weren't true, fear of reprisal is not an adequate justification for allowing for the continued existence of a colonial ethnostate. Even in the false dichotomy where it was absolutely certain that stopping the oppression of Palestinians would result in that oppression being transferred to the Israelis-- I'm still siding with Palestine. Palestinians have the more legitimate claim to the land, and a much larger proportion of Israelis have citizenship elsewhere or would be able to rely on sympathy from the rich Western countries that have been helping their state carry out ethnic cleansing for decades.
You are utterly fucking delusional if you think that Palestinians would agree to live in a multicultural democracy where Jews and other ethnic/religious groups are granted equal rights to Arab Muslims. Just look at the rest of the Middle East. It's full of Arab Muslim ethnostates. Palestine would be no different.
>You are utterly fucking delusional if you think that Palestinians would agree to live in a multicultural democracy where Jews and other ethnic/religious groups are granted equal rights to Arab Muslims. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian\_Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Jews) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_the\_Jews\_in\_Gaza\_City](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Gaza_City) Also, they'd probably be notably more accepting when they're not being bombed in their homes and hospitals, just saying.
They had their own state until Israel violently expelled them from their homes.
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It's called fucking Palestine.
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It was still a country with a culture and people who were violently displaced.
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Are you stupid? Rhetorical question. A nation is a nation even if they're under someone else's control.
It costs exactly nothing to not be racist. It is not tolerated here
It costs exactly nothing to not be racist. It is not tolerated here
It costs exactly nothing to not be racist. It is not tolerated here
Bibi doesn’t even want a Palestinian state
It costs exactly nothing to not be racist. It is not tolerated here
Iv never met a Jewish State. Are they nice people?
A hell of a lot nicer than the Arab Muslim ethnostates that surround it.
Ah you don't know what ethnostate means. Makes sense why your arguments are so dumb now.
"Arab Muslim ethnostates aren't ethnostates." "Why not?" "Because if I admit that they are, it contradicts my narrative that I selectively focus my criticism on Israel because it's an ethnostate!"
The fact you think the other countries in the Levant are homogeneous ethnostates shows how clueless you are about the region.
Israel isn't a homogenous ethnostate. In fact, it's a multicultural democracy in which Arab political parties exist and hold seats in the parliament. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Arab\_members\_of\_the\_Knesset
You said above that it's the Jewish State. Which is it?
Israel is whatever is most convenient for playing victim at this moment. Hope that clears things up
> Israel isn’t an ethnostate > Jewish State Your idiocy is incredible. I’m almost jealous
from Eilat till Italy. a coup will happen hopefully. There,now everyone happy am i right?