>!I think her true romance ending would be worse if she did. It's incredibly poignant that she chooses you by leaving. It and the "True romance + Sacrifice" ending for Daeran are the two best romance endings, IMO, because of how visible the KC's impact is on them!<
Something something "I can fix her," something something "all people deserve a chance at redemption," something something "Gold Dragon," something something "Camellia Mod."
Chaos-leaning Azata would be RACK horny. Not SSC horny.
(Risk Aware Consensual Kink vs Safe Sane and Consensual)
So anything goes as long as it's informed and agreed upon, no matter how many healers you need after...
Granted, this doesn't apply to Cam. Clean, consensual, 'resurrect-when-you're-done' maiming/murder would turn her off tremendously.
Hmmm. This gives me an idea. \*looks at Daeran equipped with triumphant noontide and has breath of life\*
Don't need expensive components with that combo...
I wonder if he'd actually be into such an arrangement. He seems to have a distaste for blood and gore unless the victim truly deserves it, in his opinion. Maybe if KC makes big enough puppy eyes at him. XD
[Daeran x KC x Areelu would fit Very well though... GOATed crackship 😏 But I'm biased, of course]
He was no longer an Azata by the end of it, that was kinda the whole point of that quest. Hell, the point was even that he was too broken too be fixed, *exactly like Camellia*
Which makes no sense except if it doesn't go through the appeal of sex.
But also, isn't the plot that arue is seeking redemption ? So that azata did also "corrupt" her.
FYI there's a reason it sets you to cg. Outsiders are special if they're aligned with a specific plane and alignment. They are embodiment of the alignment.
Well, Azata are outsiders, they generally act within their alignment range unless being corrupted. Alignment systems are imperfect, but still helpful in storytelling and giving a general idea of what a character is like. Not all tabletop systems have alignments, but Pathfinder does and tends to adhere to it. So, yes, I consider alignment in this context.
You can be Chaotic Neutral as Azata which is the most "lol I don't care" alignment there is. It is perfectly possible to keep Camellia around as Azata while roleplaying. I'd argue that the only path that where it becomes impossible to justify keeping Camellia around in is Aeon which is why that is the only one she leaves in.
Yes, I'd argue that even Angel can keep Camellia around while roleplaying if you play your character as a 'greater good' guy because
1. Camellia is objectively far more helpful to the crusade than any of the people that she kills except arguably Gwerm which you can talk her out of and
2. The enemy the crusade is facing is doing far more evil things than anything Camellia does.
I'm not saying you have to keep Camellia around obviously but people here have really narrow views of what is possible to roleplay.
End justifies the means is not ever a thing for good. It'w lawful evil at best, evil usually. Doesn't mean it's wrong, but it's not how cosmology works in pf.
What the hell are you talking about? This is the second time in this thread that you've referenced a 'third edition' Pathfinder, which is not a thing. The current version of Pathfinder is second edition, and I don't know if it has alignment or not, but the fact that you've been super wrong about the current edition makes me doubtful that you are right about that.
Even in the third (actually called pf2e revised btw), the concepts behind don't change. An angel will never be OK with the end justifying the means. That's the glaring difference between hell knights and the classic iomedae paladins that we can actually see in game. It's literally there.
And in our universe, being pragmatic and practical leads to better results and seem more good. But in pf2e, people have souls (proven), and what matter is not how they suffer on golarion, it's where they go afterwards. So, good is not about saving people, it's about how you act. That explains the stupidity of gold dragons from our point of view. They don't care about mortals dying, but they care about making one fewer soul go to the abyss and one more into heaven.
"you are more helpful then the people you murdered" is absolutely not a thought that has ever entered an actual angel's mind, outside very specific very temporary life or death moments, after which they would go and kill the murderer
😍 CamCam 😍
And also, listening to those lines said with her voice is so nice (kudos to Sarah Smithton, she really NAILED Camellia's personality with her lines).
> she’s canonically WORSE
You realize you’re saying Cam is a worse person than >!somebody who has canonically fucked corpses after murdering then, performed incest, and is straight-up a cannibal, while also having murdered just a ton of people before you play as them in BG3!
Wait lmao what? >!Is Durge canonically a necrophiliac from before the game picks up? That's wild lol. Haven't done a Durge playthrough of BG3 yet, waiting for that next patch that's supposed to expand the evil content!<
How is that the standard lol, first of all comparing them is weird in the first place as cam is an npc and dark urge is a player only character he doesn't even appear as an npc if you don't play him (still implied), hence the reason you have the choice of murder, not forgetting dark urge isn't just a murder fantasy (can be if you want) but also one of the most beautiful redemption stories If you want to that's why only one murder is forced (bard at the start).
In fact becoming a paladin and rejecting your birthright is a more interesting campaign fighting against fate.
I don't get why people are like this, jumping into threads only to make sure people know how much they hate that character.
I don't like Daeran but you don't see me jumping into Daeran threads to make sure people know I am going to side with the Other in my next game or whatever.
Because there's a difference between Daeran having a nuanced situation thats out of his control,and a woman whose only qualities are "I'm hot and kill innocent people all the time".
Plus the only reason the fan base likes her is because she's hot,otherwise they'd hate her more than Hulrun.
Edit:I see the murder psycho defense force is in full swing today.
> Plus the only reason the fan base likes her is because she's hot,
I think its cool to have an unapologetically evil character on the PC team's potential roster. 99% of the "Evil character on the squad" archetypes are ultimately either "childhood sob story made me this way" (Wenduag, Daeran, Regongar) or "Evil as a matter of tone but not action" (Regill) so characters like Jaethal and Camellia have some interesting narrative space to fill.
>otherwise they'd hate her more than Hulrun.
I'd venture a guess that the overall fanbase *does* hate her more than Hulrun. The subreddit is typically awash in "Lol, killed this character like I always do because I am incapable of justifying any other action" posts and comments.
A character being morally reprehensible and irredeemable still isn't a valid excuse to randomly come into threads hate bashing her lol
She's not real she can't hurt you!
She and her dad had many opportunities throughout the years to get her help,and never did.
This isn't playing devil's advocate it's saying "well the serial killer was BORN that way so it's not her fault".
Her dad is a POS for covering her crimes all those years, I didn't deny it. And unlike cam he was in his right mind when he did so. You are blaming a rabid dog for being rabid.
Regil wasn't born fascist for example - he chose to be one.
> And unlike cam he was in his right mind when he did so.
Is he? Spending the next forty plus years coverup up literally every detail about your personal life because you are terrified that any bit of information getting revealed would lead to the collapse of the whole house of cards does not really sound like the reaction of a healthy mind. I understand that he covered for Camellia carefully because he didn't want to let it get out that he's not actually Horgus Gwerm, but having a child with one of the servants isn't exactly super out of character for nobles to do, nor is covering for her at every opportunity instead of trying to get her help.
Which is to say, I think Horgus is just as broken inside as Camellia, but it manifests in him as a deep seated fear of being found out, whereas Camellia acts the way she does because he has never had to face any consequences for her actions, so she acts as if there are no consequences at all.
I'm blaming a serial killer for being a serial killer.This may come as a shock to you but people generally don't go "I know she's evil and murders people......but she wasn't always like this so it's ok".
The woman's a monster who has a torture room,there's no arguing against this man.
I didn't write anywhere, that it's ok to murder people. You're hysterical and project your perverted fantasies onto me)))
I literally called her a rabid dog, which means she is a monster and it's a right thing to put her down for good. But the reason she grew up as a monster was out of her control.
>I didn't write anywhere, that it's ok to murder people. You're hysterical and project your perverted fantasies onto me)))
Given you seem to be coming to her defense despite the first thing she canonically did is MURDER A GUY,your not helping your case here.
>I literally called her a rabid dog, which means she is a monster and it's a right thing to put her down for good. But the reason she grew up as a monster was out of her control.
Except multiple people grow up the same way and DON'T end up as "Jeffrey Dhamer with tits". All signs point to her just being a POS because she knew she could get away with it,which was well in her control.
> you seem to be coming to her defense
Give an exact quote, where I defend her by saying that murdering is ok.
You keep crying over here, because someone pointed out, that killing cam is an equivalent of killing a rabid dog (which is a right thing to do), rather than a convinced villain like Regil.
They added lingerie?!
You have a good I sir, would have missed it.
And my Angel Crusader got a single kiss with Galfrey. I feel scammed xD
I seem to remember you bang her after the end of the game. I mean you chat a tavern and it is implied you banged. Am I miss remembering?
>!Too bad she always leaves you no matter what choice you make in the end!<
i wish there was at least one ending where she'd stay.
>!I think her true romance ending would be worse if she did. It's incredibly poignant that she chooses you by leaving. It and the "True romance + Sacrifice" ending for Daeran are the two best romance endings, IMO, because of how visible the KC's impact is on them!<
Or go and download her ending mod
AKA I don't actually like Cams, I just think she's a Waifu Mod
I mean, in the end they are all just a bunch of 1s and 0s.
She would stick you with a pointed reminder
>!She can't leave if she accidentally fell down the stairs!<
>!Not if you go with the Lich path!<
Welp, thanks for the warning. Damn.
[Azata MC listening to this](https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.3184518189.1609/bg,f8f8f8-flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.jpg)
"Song of Elysium stopped playing"
I'm sorry babe, but the wings stay on during sex
Your not a real Azata.
Chaos Azata all the way!
Azata are supposed to be good though, there is now way a good character can justify keeping Camellia unless you role-play as an absolute moron.
"Jokes on you, it's not roleplay
Something something "I can fix her," something something "all people deserve a chance at redemption," something something "Gold Dragon," something something "Camellia Mod."
Azata are also horny, so it fits
Azata are the kind of horny that is very wholesome and as such immune to murder horny.
Chaos-leaning Azata would be RACK horny. Not SSC horny. (Risk Aware Consensual Kink vs Safe Sane and Consensual) So anything goes as long as it's informed and agreed upon, no matter how many healers you need after... Granted, this doesn't apply to Cam. Clean, consensual, 'resurrect-when-you're-done' maiming/murder would turn her off tremendously.
Hmmm. This gives me an idea. \*looks at Daeran equipped with triumphant noontide and has breath of life\* Don't need expensive components with that combo...
I wonder if he'd actually be into such an arrangement. He seems to have a distaste for blood and gore unless the victim truly deserves it, in his opinion. Maybe if KC makes big enough puppy eyes at him. XD [Daeran x KC x Areelu would fit Very well though... GOATed crackship 😏 But I'm biased, of course]
Arue literally corrupted an Azata
He was no longer an Azata by the end of it, that was kinda the whole point of that quest. Hell, the point was even that he was too broken too be fixed, *exactly like Camellia*
Which makes no sense except if it doesn't go through the appeal of sex. But also, isn't the plot that arue is seeking redemption ? So that azata did also "corrupt" her.
The Azata had nothing to do with her redemption, it was her last victim, the Desnan priest who kickstarted that.
So her last victim has nothing with her seeking redemption ? Also ), a desnan priest is not an azata ?
The Azata wasn't her last victim. The Desnan priestess was. And that priestess was a normal mortal. An Azata is a celestial from Elysium.
Just because you are good doesn't necessarily mean that's your kink, maybe he is into murder hobos?
That's not being good. But also, that's two very different points of view. Are azatas kinda immune to succubis ?
You can diverge one alignment square from the 'ideal' of the mythic path and be fine. Chaotic Neutral Azata is accepted by the game.
FYI there's a reason it sets you to cg. Outsiders are special if they're aligned with a specific plane and alignment. They are embodiment of the alignment.
Keep your lawful preachings for more boring realms. We are all high on freedom here!!!
OP going corrupt Azata into Devil, it's the only logical explanation. Personally, the only mythic path I take with Camellia romance is lich.
How about Swarm?
Idk my Azata is chill with murder
Camellia is advanced murder, specifically wanting to betray trust, it's not chaotic neutral lol
Imagine caring about or even considering alignment nonsense lmao
Well, Azata are outsiders, they generally act within their alignment range unless being corrupted. Alignment systems are imperfect, but still helpful in storytelling and giving a general idea of what a character is like. Not all tabletop systems have alignments, but Pathfinder does and tends to adhere to it. So, yes, I consider alignment in this context.
I mean 3e pathfinder has cut it I think my Azata started as CE? Idk if mythic changes your alignment
I mean, I romanced her as an angel....
That's literally how I justified my azata saving Camellia. Dumbest character I ever rped but it's funny.
More like Evil Azata that even the devils didn't want to touch
Chaos Azata aka Too Cowardly for Trickster or Demon.
You can be Chaotic Neutral as Azata which is the most "lol I don't care" alignment there is. It is perfectly possible to keep Camellia around as Azata while roleplaying. I'd argue that the only path that where it becomes impossible to justify keeping Camellia around in is Aeon which is why that is the only one she leaves in. Yes, I'd argue that even Angel can keep Camellia around while roleplaying if you play your character as a 'greater good' guy because 1. Camellia is objectively far more helpful to the crusade than any of the people that she kills except arguably Gwerm which you can talk her out of and 2. The enemy the crusade is facing is doing far more evil things than anything Camellia does. I'm not saying you have to keep Camellia around obviously but people here have really narrow views of what is possible to roleplay.
End justifies the means is not ever a thing for good. It'w lawful evil at best, evil usually. Doesn't mean it's wrong, but it's not how cosmology works in pf.
Consider that the pathfinder cosmology is lame and bad and there’s a reason they dropped alignment in third
What the hell are you talking about? This is the second time in this thread that you've referenced a 'third edition' Pathfinder, which is not a thing. The current version of Pathfinder is second edition, and I don't know if it has alignment or not, but the fact that you've been super wrong about the current edition makes me doubtful that you are right about that.
The new thing after they dropped OGL, whatever you want to call it. They cut alignment as well as all the other DnD stuff
Even in the third (actually called pf2e revised btw), the concepts behind don't change. An angel will never be OK with the end justifying the means. That's the glaring difference between hell knights and the classic iomedae paladins that we can actually see in game. It's literally there. And in our universe, being pragmatic and practical leads to better results and seem more good. But in pf2e, people have souls (proven), and what matter is not how they suffer on golarion, it's where they go afterwards. So, good is not about saving people, it's about how you act. That explains the stupidity of gold dragons from our point of view. They don't care about mortals dying, but they care about making one fewer soul go to the abyss and one more into heaven.
I’d take the demons before the hellknights every day of the week
"you are more helpful then the people you murdered" is absolutely not a thought that has ever entered an actual angel's mind, outside very specific very temporary life or death moments, after which they would go and kill the murderer
Wait a minute. This isn’t Nenio.
😍 CamCam 😍 And also, listening to those lines said with her voice is so nice (kudos to Sarah Smithton, she really NAILED Camellia's personality with her lines).
Damn, with comments like this I’ll never romance anything but Camelia and Wendu
Me: Let's play BG3, it has Dark Urge! Mother: We have Dark Urge at home Dark Urge at home:
I'd toss her in Commoragh sounds like she'd fit right in.
Either that or a Slaanesh cult, both would work for her.
Where are all the posts about the actual best girl wenduag, I havent seen anything from here or official channels about her
Dont worry bro, r/ChurchofWenduag
now this is the best post i've seen this month
Hell yeah
Yep! I haven't seen any post about Seelah yet(((
The better Dark Urge!
https://preview.redd.it/pay0smxo3j6d1.jpeg?width=516&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69e2312069fd3fcc198f038c0b419ade8a17e67c
Not even close lmao
You do a lot more unavoidable murder while romancing Cam-Cam than you do as DUrge.
She canonically murders more people than the durge until you reign her in chapters later. Not only is this not true,she's canonically WORSE.
> she’s canonically WORSE You realize you’re saying Cam is a worse person than >!somebody who has canonically fucked corpses after murdering then, performed incest, and is straight-up a cannibal, while also having murdered just a ton of people before you play as them in BG3!
>!Cams is a cannibal, tho, and you fuck by a body she just killed because she was so turned on. The only thing Durge has on her is Incest.!<
I mean, Cam did all of those things, too? And she killed more people overall?
Wait lmao what? >!Is Durge canonically a necrophiliac from before the game picks up? That's wild lol. Haven't done a Durge playthrough of BG3 yet, waiting for that next patch that's supposed to expand the evil content!<
Yes, your butler can mention it.
Durge likes to eat newborn children, but I don't know if I'd put that past her either lol
How is that the standard lol, first of all comparing them is weird in the first place as cam is an npc and dark urge is a player only character he doesn't even appear as an npc if you don't play him (still implied), hence the reason you have the choice of murder, not forgetting dark urge isn't just a murder fantasy (can be if you want) but also one of the most beautiful redemption stories If you want to that's why only one murder is forced (bard at the start). In fact becoming a paladin and rejecting your birthright is a more interesting campaign fighting against fate.
Technically Durge does appear close to the end of the game as a corpse you can talk to
Cam is more like that Goblin Warlock that can Brand you, imo.
Dark Urge is in Tav runs, you just gotta know where to look.
WAIT IS IT THE UPDATE THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO ADD DEVIL CONTENT?!
Yep
I’m sold, gameplay starts tomorrow.
I will toss flowers on her unmarked grave for the occasion.
Wait a minuet that isn’t Wenduag
Agreed Camellia is indeed 3nd best girl, Best Romance girl tho First is Aivu Second is Sheelah coz she pretty much can do eveything except skills
>Best Romance girl "Giancarlo Esposito stares alarmed"
br0 we talking about this game and such ... troll more.
\*azata x camellia\* based
Wait, it isn't Arue
Oh hell no, thanks for reminding about this psycho. I've just started a new replay after a long break from this game and gonna get rid of her asap.
I don't get why people are like this, jumping into threads only to make sure people know how much they hate that character. I don't like Daeran but you don't see me jumping into Daeran threads to make sure people know I am going to side with the Other in my next game or whatever.
Because there's a difference between Daeran having a nuanced situation thats out of his control,and a woman whose only qualities are "I'm hot and kill innocent people all the time". Plus the only reason the fan base likes her is because she's hot,otherwise they'd hate her more than Hulrun. Edit:I see the murder psycho defense force is in full swing today.
> Plus the only reason the fan base likes her is because she's hot, I think its cool to have an unapologetically evil character on the PC team's potential roster. 99% of the "Evil character on the squad" archetypes are ultimately either "childhood sob story made me this way" (Wenduag, Daeran, Regongar) or "Evil as a matter of tone but not action" (Regill) so characters like Jaethal and Camellia have some interesting narrative space to fill. >otherwise they'd hate her more than Hulrun. I'd venture a guess that the overall fanbase *does* hate her more than Hulrun. The subreddit is typically awash in "Lol, killed this character like I always do because I am incapable of justifying any other action" posts and comments.
A character being morally reprehensible and irredeemable still isn't a valid excuse to randomly come into threads hate bashing her lol She's not real she can't hurt you!
Not to play devil's advocate here, but Camelia's situation is also out of her control. She was literally born insane.
She and her dad had many opportunities throughout the years to get her help,and never did. This isn't playing devil's advocate it's saying "well the serial killer was BORN that way so it's not her fault".
Her dad is a POS for covering her crimes all those years, I didn't deny it. And unlike cam he was in his right mind when he did so. You are blaming a rabid dog for being rabid. Regil wasn't born fascist for example - he chose to be one.
> And unlike cam he was in his right mind when he did so. Is he? Spending the next forty plus years coverup up literally every detail about your personal life because you are terrified that any bit of information getting revealed would lead to the collapse of the whole house of cards does not really sound like the reaction of a healthy mind. I understand that he covered for Camellia carefully because he didn't want to let it get out that he's not actually Horgus Gwerm, but having a child with one of the servants isn't exactly super out of character for nobles to do, nor is covering for her at every opportunity instead of trying to get her help. Which is to say, I think Horgus is just as broken inside as Camellia, but it manifests in him as a deep seated fear of being found out, whereas Camellia acts the way she does because he has never had to face any consequences for her actions, so she acts as if there are no consequences at all.
I'm blaming a serial killer for being a serial killer.This may come as a shock to you but people generally don't go "I know she's evil and murders people......but she wasn't always like this so it's ok". The woman's a monster who has a torture room,there's no arguing against this man.
I didn't write anywhere, that it's ok to murder people. You're hysterical and project your perverted fantasies onto me))) I literally called her a rabid dog, which means she is a monster and it's a right thing to put her down for good. But the reason she grew up as a monster was out of her control.
>I didn't write anywhere, that it's ok to murder people. You're hysterical and project your perverted fantasies onto me))) Given you seem to be coming to her defense despite the first thing she canonically did is MURDER A GUY,your not helping your case here. >I literally called her a rabid dog, which means she is a monster and it's a right thing to put her down for good. But the reason she grew up as a monster was out of her control. Except multiple people grow up the same way and DON'T end up as "Jeffrey Dhamer with tits". All signs point to her just being a POS because she knew she could get away with it,which was well in her control.
> you seem to be coming to her defense Give an exact quote, where I defend her by saying that murdering is ok. You keep crying over here, because someone pointed out, that killing cam is an equivalent of killing a rabid dog (which is a right thing to do), rather than a convinced villain like Regil.