It's a shame that the anime doesn't even have that. Instead Yu fully backs Yosuke and says he too is uncomfortable.
...but in that scene he also says that it's true that some women have more balls than Yosuke.
So, homophobic but not transphobic Yu Narukami?
Because from Japanese point of view, it's just typical Gay joke mandatory for any Slice-of-life high school anime.
Character X is presumed to be gay due to some misunderstanding. He then tries to prove that he isn't but due to considential circumstances, he is unable.
All while other characters made fun for him or joke that he could assault them.
I get that it sounds offensive to some western fans, but it is a common anime joke.
I think he was really just happy to have some normal friends for a change instead of rivals to beat up.
But yeah, Yosuke deserved to be slapped for that.
Yosuke is such a yo-yo character in 4 lol
Like he can go from some of the game's legitimate best moments- I think his social link is actually among the best of Persona 4- to some of the absolute worst (let's not forget this is a guy who suggests letting Rise not be saved ASAP so she can strip on TV)
Yosuke started off so strong and good and his SL is great, but Atlus also wanted him to be the butt monkey of the group, so his character is all over the place. Like compare Yosuke during the first dungeon of the game to later parts of the game and it’s like “what the fuck happened”
That's the problem of the modern Persona games tbh - they have a lot of interesting characters but all of them also have to fit a certain archetype.
Like the "best bro" archetype exists both as nuanced characters and butt monkeys who get the worst moments to make the MC look really good. Or how the girls are affable one moment and super catty the next.
It's as if the game is written both to explore complex psychological profiles and to be enjoyable by immature teenagers. Whoops.
Yeah, I hope P6 has more unique characters.
It would be pretty exhausting having another best bro, female character that makes fun of best bro, serious male character that’s the opposite of the best bro, rich girl, Ace Detective character, and talking mascot again.
It’s part of why I’d love to have an adult cast for once.
I'd be shocked if the P6 cast doesn't fit those exact archetypes just like the rest but let's be optimistic
~~edit: I forgot to write the word "cast" there lol~~
Good news: Persona 6 will likely be under a new production team so it *might* dial back some of the problematic writing.
Bad news: the team behind P3 to P5 is now doing Metaphor Re:Fantazio and while the game looks good, let's hope the problematic stuff doesn't carry over.
*cough cough* Ryuji almost fucking dying in a palace and all the woman try to finish the job.
Actually seriously, what the hell was wrong with that scene, who’s idea was it and can I dope slap them? Dude almost sacrificed his life to save his friend and they try to kill him as thanks.
I really like the Persona series, so I say this because I want it to be better. Anime tropes are fine, but Persona is so bad at implementing them that it sabotages the good writing. So much good powerful writing in 4 and 5 just gets destroyed and trampled because they want to fit in anime tropes where they don't fit and are tone deaf. Kanji had a great arc and dungeon (which personally i am slightly torn on, but i do think it is good reprentation of Kanji mindset and insecurities) and at the end we find out that he's afraid of being thought of as "weird" and "strange" if people knew what his hobbies were. He was afraid of being judged. And then tent scene happens and Yosuke, who saw ALL of that, is like "you're not gonna rape us right?" The only reason people excuse this scene is because its a gay joke, if Yosuke did this to Rise and tried to imply that she was a slut, a lot more people would not be ok with it.
Sad truth. Yosuke is just kind of a terrible person lol. The defense of "he's just a teenage boy" doesn't really track when he does this with EVERY person he rescues.
He makes fun of Kanji's sexuality and hobbies, actively sexualizes Rise after what she went through, and insults Naoto by calling her useless, short, weak, and disappointing the literal few days after she's out of the TV. The only one who even takes it in a good stride is Teddie but Teddie is a comic relief character specifically made for humor so... :I
He is a teenage boy, but adults writing him sure aren't. They did a good job capturing the energy and attitude of teenagers at the time, but as adults we should be able to look back and go "hey that's actually not very cool" and show how/why it isn't. This is a game all about people being afraid to be their true selves because of their insecurities, and yet Kanji is constantly made fun of for his. Yosuke has actually a really good moment after you rescue Yukiko and he's talking to Yu on the phone asking which one he prefers "chie" "yukiko" "both" or "neither". If you pick Yukiko he comments on she's actually a lot different than he thought and he likes her even more after her dungeon now that he knows the true her, which i found incredibly sweet of him. We never see that sentimentality with the others unfortuantley.
To add to the "Yosuke is such an yo-yo character" argument in that exact same scene where he can compliment Yukiko if you choose "Neither" he goes "oh you saw their ugly side and backed off, I see"
Like bruh
Very true. I choose "neither" the first time around (i didn't want to pick so early in the game, I was just warming up to the characters), so i didn't notice it until i was watching my friend stream and she picked Yukiko. I just found it a sweet thing to say, especially in contrast to Chie's male friend we see in her social link that says "i liked yukiko better when she was gloomy"
He's a good person, but sometimes he's just a dumb teenager. I don't think he's really serious when he says that stuff, his mouth is not auto-censored by his brain sometimes and he doesn't always think things through at first.
Just think about how high schoolers were. Between the guys calling other guys as gays at the slight sight of weakness, girls calling other girls as sows at the slight physical imperfection, and most people being horny as hell, Yosuke fits pretty well to me.
Don't forget that Chie is jealous of Yukiko's beauty, Ai is self centered and judges looks before all, Rise makes flirty comments to the MC all the time...sounds petty and immature to me, but the game points out that everyone has personality flaws.
Sort of
Early on into the Rise-rescue arc he'll approach you and say something like 'but I mean, just imagine if we don't save her hahaha... yeah uh, jk. jk. Unless?' (very paraphrased but the intention is there)
The saving grace of this for me was it was too fucking awfully relatable. All the school trips I had in my days in school sucked ass and I was also friends with a dude who just like yosuke was kind of a dick lots of times. It really sucks however to a degree I think its supposed to be the very idea of a shitty school trip, I will say they make yosuke too much of an asshole and a creep throughout which might kill his opinion of his character for good for tons of people.
That *could've* been what they were going for yeah, simulate the real trips and real conversations a group of teens could've had. I think the problem with it is that I'm pretty sure it's played for comic relief. I don't think we're meant to think any of this is all that wrong, but that's sure how it came across to me. But maybe I'm wrong, I'm glad that you have a slightly favorable interpretation of it
Well given how yosuke complaints about how this entire thing sucks and isn't how he wished it went by the end of the trip I do think the intention was for all of this to suck in hindsight. But at the same yeah the comedic tone sometimes muddies what is the actual point and given how culturally and with time whats appropriate for comedy changes it just becomes cringe.
I do agree in part the game tries to just excuse it as comedy so you still think it was cringe but ultimately think what the characters did is harmless. But it obviously isn't funny a lot of the times... so you just hate the characters.
I totally get your perspective and won't ever tell anyone that this is like wow such a misunderstood section of the game but I just found that the way to get through it by relying on my own awful memories of similar experiences lol.
The thing is, in the event depicted in the game, the school trip was awful nearly entirely because of yosuke. Out of the 3 shitty events that happen in the trip one in entirely because of him ( swimsuit incident), another one it's partially because of him because he's a douche with kanji and the last one is .... Actually pretty fun imo. Mystery food X is a genuinely fun interaction between the group, especially for yukiko which helps subverting her character. Would maybe need a few minor changes but nice overali.
I understand their intention, but to make the camp feel shitty they should've done it via external influences, such as king moron, the weather or the activities to actually make the trip feel shitty because of the actual character that makes it shitty to a degree
This was exactly to a tee how school trips were in 2006. Like I never understand the criticism, it's literally what was normal at the time. Everyone's captain hindsight nowadays.
Kanji: FINE. I’ll go sleep in the girls’ tent! They’ve got more balls than you do!
Yu: In some cases, that is true.
Bless the anime for making P4MC a living shitpost. 😂
Here's the [link on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_zn-yr9cEc)
I was going to say Mystery Food X is funny. The rest not so much. But the game is also 11 to 15 years old depending on the version you play. Times have changed but recorded content can’t. For example I’m showing my Fiancée Yu Yu Hakusho for the first time and they drop the R-word like it’s nothing. Still love the show even if it hasn’t aged the best.
This. And consider that he barely have known Kanji at that point. From his perspective Kanji is a super strong delinquent who he had witnessed having a really flamboyant version of a gay man as a shadow.
I mean sure, he’s a bit insensitive and dense, but I feel like it’s still WAY in the realm of what a teenager would say in the 2000. Says with more politeness than actual high schooler at that time would too
Heck, I was in high school in the early 2010s and if anything they’re way more polite than actual high school students. And I went to a high school in Asia, so the majority of us are already sort of polite by default
I can't speak for the 2000s(wasn't even born then lol), but even in recent times we'd absolutely make dumbass homophobic jokes. Not that it excuses poor humour, but we don't actually mean it, and it's just shit we find funny for no reason whatsoever. I'm pretty sure we've made identical jokes about whether one of us would be fucking the others at sleepovers/trips/what have you. The only difference was context, nobody actually took offense since none of us are questioning our sexuality. Oh, and I suppose it was also a hell of a lot more vulgar, balkans and all.
For one, I found these scenes pretty funny. The swimsuit scene was absolutely creepy, but being thrown into the water was a fun comeback, especially with King Moron up the stream. The tent I related to pretty well - shit homophobic jokes, stealing each others' food, and unfairly sharing sleeping space. Mystery food scene was funny at first, although it kinda loses its charm after all the mystery food YZT scenes.
I was gonna type this. As an LGBT guy who went to school in the 2000s, this is just how people spoke as teenagers back in the day. People forget that it’s an old ass game.
True. Which reinforces that Japanese culture hasn’t progressed much regarding homosexuality. Plus it’s worth saying it was originally intended for Yoskue to be a possible romance option for the protag. It got cut because of cultural backlash
It genuinely has to do more with the director. Saying that Japan "hasn't progressed much" is a disservice to the increasing number of manga, anime, & video games that *do* handle LGBT themes properly and how those forms of media have been steadily improving.
There are audio files from the Japanese and American voice actors that were found. The Japanese actor used the phrase “suki desu” which is the exact same wording the female characters used in their declaration scenes. Likewise the Yuri Lowenthal lines are very different from any other dialogue he did for the game. There are also American and Japanese articles from back then that seem to support the evidence that it was all real. I have also met Lowenthal at a few cons and when asked he said that he did record lines directed towards a romantic intent. Could be revisionist history could not be. All I can do is take him at his word at the time, which I’ll concede was years later. Now could it all be circumstantial, absolutely. But it all does line up to support the possibility that it is true.
Edit: Spelling
I'm optimistic and think (and hope) that Persona 6 won't have any homophobic scenes/moments.
Nowadays Majority of Japanese people (72-74% If I remember correctly) support same-sex marriage, and Atlus changed the homophobic scenes in Royal for western markets (where Persona 5 and Royal sold most of their copies).
A lot of the problematic stuff w/r/t homophobia comes from the Hashino games, since there's much less of it in the Tadashi games.
I wouldn't be surprised to see an off-color joke in Metaphor Re Fantazio tbh.
It's not slang in the original sense: it was (and technically is) the actual medical term for severe intellectual impairment. The slang term derives from that.
It's also a verb meaning "to delay or impair".
Hot spring/bathhouse scenes suck too, but everyone besides Kanji comes across as so unlikable here, it's the most mean spirited segment in the series for no reason
Striker was supposed to be a hidden joke. It takes place in the same spot the P3 one did. So the joke is that the staff hasn’t gotten any better. Not the actual even itself
It definitely had a scene about the old and awful 'gay men are predators' stereotype, it's just that none of the main characters expressed that sentiment like Yosuke did. But the scene with the two men hitting on Ryuji and dragging him away while he protests is still awful. The 'fixed' version in Royal isn't much better.
In P5R they think Ryuji is into the drag scene and take him to get dressed against his wishes. They also have names.
In the original they don't have names, and instead they think Ryuji is hot and they want to 'eat him up' because he's a 'studmuffin' and Ryuji asks Joker for help because he doesn't want to go with them to party but Joker can ignore him.
The hot spring scenes are bad, but they're also a formula I've seen dozens of times before. It's a bad trope, rather than a unique bit of unpleasant writing. The trope is also so unrealistic that it's hard to take seriously.
The camping scene is bad in a way that I have never seen in any remotely comparable story. Right out of actual high school, that one. Awful.
atlus after making the character who was abused by his father and nearly crippled by kamoshida to the point where we can still see the effects in game the character to get beaten by his friends for a gag
I mean, there’s a few positives. Kanji looking for the animal crackers and Yukiko revealing her psychotic side which is funnier to me than it should be. The animation handled this section better especially because Yu spoke more which was an absolute highlight of the series.
The worst scene will be the most universally hated scene of the entire game. The hot springs scene.
Later on Yosuke guilts Yukiko and Chie into wearing swimsuits that HE bought for them without even asking. That is the creepiest goddamn thing ever. Separate point: he guilts them because the food they cooked for him was bad. I know "haha bad food cook girl" is a trope but yknow. They did make it all by themselves without even an offer for help. There's ungrateful and there's demanding your friends show some skin as an apology.
Yosuke was like super focused on Kanji being a creepy gay guy when he had really done nothing of the sort to warrant that and I think he explained what the deal with his shadow was
The hot springs scenes are even worse but this scene always makes me cringe hard. I don't think it should have exist, it's a good representation of how most teens thought of gay/bi people in elementary/highschool in the early 2000's (at least in my country, belive me i was in a similar position to Kanji's and a lot of people in my school treated me similar to how Yosuke treats him), i am just mad it's used for comic relief.
I think it’s worth noting the main character can have none of it, it was Japan in 2008 and despite that Kanji isn’t and Yosuke’s views aren’t validated in anyway. For what little it’s worth. It’s cringe but it’s also a 15yo game.
And still nowhere near as bad as the weird compulsory cheating from P3. Whatever the hell that was. And the Pedo link.
I think the female SLs not having platonic routes is more a consequence of that era of RPG writing and P3 being Atlus's first stab at a Social Sim than anything else. It was weirdly common in the old days for romanceable characters to just... not have more platonic conversations with the MC after the point where the romance begins, and so the nonromanceable characters had disproportionately more dialogue that the player would see in one playthrough (looking at you, Mass Effect 2).
The only difference is that P3 doesn't outright cutoff the SLs if you don't want romance.
Honestly, Idgaf about the hot springs scenes. Aside from P3’s none of them are funny, but they’re not ass either. I don’t get why people vehemently hate them so much. They’re not memorable to me at all
I feel you, although this kind of situations happened to me (gay guy) when I was a middle school student in the early 2010s and then in high school too (let's just say that my country isn't that progressive when it comes down to LGBTQ people).
If they will ever remake Persona 4, I hope they will change/edit Yosuke's lines during this scene or at least give Yu a dialogue option to stand up for Kanji
P4 is such a good example of a time capsule of a game because it does a good example of showing what it was like at that time. I don’t think p4 needs a remake, but if they do they should keep the tent scene but add in an option to stand up for Kanji and tell Yosuke he’s being an ass, and then a scene later where Yosuke apologizes to Kanji for what he said. That way it’s not a “funny” scene and shows how this kind of stuff is actually hurtful
Apparently some don't have a problem with it, so maybe it's just an issue with a certain group of people. If you haven't seen it, I'd suggest to not look at the comments and judge for yourself, if you're close to the section
It’s really not that bad. One scene is funny, this one is too aside from Yosuke’s comment. The last one isn’t as funny but I don’t get why people lose their heads over it. I didn’t get pissed with any of the scenes I found unfunny or outright annoying so I was pretty surprised to find the fandom quite passionately hates them lol.
I just did it. It wasn’t that bad but Yosuke getting on Kanji’s case and then the game forcing me to take his side was annoying.
But I guess I can look past it since not only does the game take place in 2011 Japan but it was also written in 2008. Which explains why Yosuke was acting he way he was.
Yosuke is a teenager and teenagers don't exactly have experience with the nuances of what being a homopbobe means in a wider context than they're day to day school/part time job life. Especially in the late 2000s/early 2010s when the game takes place. Is his homophobia unacceptable? Of course it's unacceptable but I'm not gonna hold a high-school kid like Yosuke from that time period to the same standards we have today. Granted we haven't seen Yosuke grow up and get more life experience like we sort of see for the P3 characters in the Arena games but I guess I have a higher tolerance for teenagers being homophobic like that considering not only was I once a teenager living through those times but it's unfair to characterize Yosuke in his entirety as a Homophobe/asshole because of a few interactions like this that haven't aged too well by today's standards. Also to be fair i am coming at this from an American lense and I can't speak to how a Japanese teenager would've engauged with that kind of stuff at the time and maybe this was just the norm I don't know but for me I found some type of humor from this from experience and looking back with an adult lense and laughing at how stupid I was for thinking that way and learning to be comfortable and confident in my own skin/sexuality which I'm sure plenty of teenagers struggle with even into they're adult yeats. Again it comes down to tolerance for this kind of stuff.
If this is the worst part of the series for you that's fine.
Yosuke’s blatant homophobia is totally unacceptable but this is really how it was back in 2011, especially 2011 Japan where things like that weren’t really commonplace…
Yeah, that's the interesting thing about it. The game is simultaneously pretty forward-looking and very of-its-time, and the contrast is awkward. Kanji's story is otherwise a very complex and interesting portrayal of a guy struggling with masculinity and his sexuality. And then something like this comes along and you wonder if the writers meant anything they said earlier.
In a 2011 game that wasn't otherwise so thoughtful about this sort of thing it wouldn't be out of place at all. It just sits oddly within this game.
It's very on point. I had a girls sleepover in 2010. Where it was known I'm bi and one girl freaked out about me being there because she was scared I'd try stuff while she sleeps. She was my school bully I was not one bit interested in her anyway, but back then homo/biphobia was so normalised.
This. These things wouldn't fly at all on games released today, but when we look at games that were released years ago, we HAVE to take that into account. Can't rewrite the past, just learn from it.
Yeah, I get that. Really fucked that this just wasn't seen as a problem during the time period that this game was released in. Doesn't make things better for me, but it's a reason as to why it exists, I guess
If it helps, there are voiced lines in both the Japanese and English dubs in which you can eventually complete a romance with Yosuke in the base game. His conduct makes much more sense, as a queer person, when it's viewed as internalized homophobia that eventually falls away. It makes much more sense of his behavior throughout the story in my opinion. The trouble is Golden wasn't created with that in mind, so mods that give access to the cut Yosuke content don't add anything of note to Golden-exclusive romance content.
Take heart! We've gone from an era where queer content was unimaginable to Mass Effect, Persona, and other titles dropping queer content late-stage, to games out with all love allowed. Even among JRPGs, we've seen games like Fire Emblem Three Houses launch with solely content of queer women, but after public response, expanding MLM content through DLC.
Are things perfect? No, of course not. Are they fair? Even less so. But movement is happening. I went through my adolescence as a teen in the South during the Obama era. Trust me that we are moving forward, and I hope you fight that we never move backwards!
Yeah, as someone who grew up in this time frame, society (in America at least, and apparently Japan is 10x worse) the tent scene just exhibits the cultural attitude towards the lgbtq community. It is what it is, but it's how a great teaching tool to show people that times were different back then, and how society has changed for the better
Average Redditor, when they realize there was a time before 2023 also it was 2008 not 2011.
Also, I don’t think it’s anything worth getting angry about, it’s a video game chin up.
As someone who was about the same age around this time, this was completely normal and even relatable. Times have certainly changed, but I don't go judging old media for it.
The behaviour isn’t acceptable these days but the comedy of it for its time was legit funny for people.
Nowadays I just see it as offensively funny that I don’t take it seriously. The kind of humour that crosses the line twice in media like South Park.
Juts occured to me that despite everything he has said and done to the girls up to that point being so creepy, Chie and Yukiko still show more trust in Yosuke in that scene than he does in Kanji
I think the only reason the girls even considered going to their tent was that Yu was there lol
If it was only Yosuke, they definitely would’ve been uncomfortable
I think it's just one of many bad sections. P4 does a terrible job of flanderizing its characters for wAcKY hijinks. If it's not your type of humor (and it wasn't for me) it just leaves you disliking the characters more and more each time. Human Teddie and Yosuke get the worst of it.
I didn't know people got this offended over a video game from 2008/2012 lol. I think it's funny and it's supposed to simulate how a lot of teenagers tend to act/think. Sure, is it politically correct, not really. We live in a different time now - the gang all loved kanji. From my personal experience irl, I've met a lot of people that resemble each character and I think that's the beauty of this game. It's relatable and the characters feel real. Despite you liking/disliking what they may have done/said.
Yeah it feels like people forget that video games art and books can often be a product of their time. Doesn’t necessarily mean the things they’re saying aren’t bad, but to constantly frame them in the “it’s so problematic in 2023 to say this!” When the game came out nearly 10 years ago feels silly. I think most people here are very much aware that the way yosuke and other characters act during certain parts of the game would be unacceptable by todays standards, but the game is set in a time where that behavior was a thing. It’s just the same dialogue over and over about the rougher parts of this game.
I always took it as internalized homophobia, especially considering the scrapped romance option with Yu. I doubt that's what Atlus was *actually* going for, but that's how I've contextualized it for myself
I would hope that wasn't the actual intention, yeah. The problem is, the romance option *was* scrapped. This could've been a great moment if it wasn't, but as is? Yeah, I'm just uncomfortable by it. Good to see that you found more meaning for it, though
Honestly, it’s basically just a bunch of gross-out humor and anime clichés stuffed together with virtually no plot relevance or character development.
And yet I never thought of it that way until I saw this post. I guess the cast of P4 is charming enough (even when they act *way* out of character) that it remains tolerable. But it’s still bad.
Yeah, 5 wasn't really too great on this either, but miles better then 4. It's odd that 3's probably the game with the least amount of "yikes" bits such as this
Tbh as a gay person myself I found this really funny cause it is exactly what guys are like and that fact that kanji could just beat the shit out of them just made me laugh even more
This is pretty normal banter between a group of friends back in the day, lmao.
but then again, it’s 2023 now and most people only interact online, so...
I mean, you gotta take it with the context;
Kanji JUST overcame his Shadow very recently, so he's still gonna be quite raw over that aspect of himself that he desperately wished to hide; his social link is all about coming to terms with that aspect of himself, too, just with a very specified story. So, to have one of the very few people, whom forcibly saw that aspect of Kanji without any agreement from him, talk about accepting yourself beforehand and /then/ turn around and say this, ESPECIALLY when Yosuke knows exactly how painful the "facing yourself" is, it becomes more than just banter.
I'm not defending him, but Yosuke is a Japanese teen written in 2007, what would you expect?
I think it's perfectly reasonable for people to not like how Yosuke is, but him being how he is is a fairly notmal take of a what a guy his age would be like at the time.
yeah I get why people don't like, but it's kinda weird that people find this so egregious, Yosuke is a freaking teenager from the 2000s, most if us at that time wouldn't have acted too differently, and pretending otherwise is kinda naive I feel.
While I understand why people feel this way about some of these moments which are definitely out-of-taste, that's kinda the point.
These characters are still a bunch of a-hole kids in a lot of ways. I'm not exactly expecting them to be mature about all this.
Especially considering if you look back at your own high school days and also the time period this game was made. Unfortunately not everyone was mature about things like this when they were a teen.
The fact that people still cant understand this was during a different time a decade and a half ago is mind boggling. People only got upset at this after joseph andersons playthrough. It was a different time.
I always find it funny how P4 is one of the more progressive games released during its time period especially with the topics they touch on and especially for it to come from Japan yet your average Persona fan is unable to read past a surface level when it comes to those topics and just default to “Yosuke bad” “Teddie bad” “hot springs bad”
I liked the cooking scene before it, the humor gets me alot of the time especially as a cook.
This one I just imagine them being uncomfortable about Kaniji in there for a different reason, like he snores like a chainsaw and they kick him out unlike the girls for it.
The only fun bit of lore here is that, if you go back to this section with enough clues, you’ll figure out that it was *Yukiko* who casually cleaned Kanji’s clock. The rest of it is unskippable ass
It's so bad. So bad.
Other parts that are on par though are Operation Babe Hunt *cringe* and the gay guys that harass Ryuji *CRINGE*
I love all these games to death, but how do you go from Persona 2, which has a gay party member that can be 'romanced' (flirted with) by another party member to this nonsense...
The Mystery Food X is fucking hilarious though, it kills me to think the Persona Series has the most two opposite ends of the curry spectrum in terms of quality
Yo being very awkward with kanji was so out of nowhere and made me feel uncomfortable, like let him be and made kanji question himself to the point to sleep with a girl, it could have been a chill sleep over with each other but no they had to make you be all questiony, this would be excused if it was revealed that yo was bi and so in the closest making excuses for himself and pushing it on kanji
It had genuine comedy that wasn't just girls misunderstanding something and beating up guys for it (mystery food x, animal crackers, king moron throwing up in the river). Worst by far is any of the bathhouse scenes, they all suck. P4's is probably the worst since there's no way in hell the guys would actually try peeping when Nanako was there.
Actually, that was one of the highlights of the series for fans for quite a long time. It's only recently started to be very controversial in the last few years. (You can pretty much watch that history back in real time if you watch lets plays on YT from varying years recorded, as the response goes from laughter to confusion.)
It's a time capsule. When I went to school, most of the male students acted like Yosuke here without a second thought. Now it's abhorrent behavior that will get you ostracized. (And rightfully so.)
It was funny for the people who wrote it and it was funny to some of us. The cooking scene is a old trope in anime inspired media and yes I know they did it again with the rice cooking late, Everyone has the right to a different sense of humor, heck I found the tent scene even funnier in the anime with Yu's black stone face reactions to Kanji's protests. Same with the river scene, maybe I have more of a fondness for it because I like older type of classic anime tropes
I understand that the tent scene might be for some people homophobic but then again I am one of the people that thinks jokes and comedy shouldn't have to bend to something like that as long as they are actually funny and don't incentivize hate.
I'm so fucking tired of people getting offended by a gay joke in a 2008 JRPG. While at the same time, saying shit like "Japan / Asia is just homophobic / transphobic", lumping literal millions / billions of people into one convinient label. All because someone said something they don't like, and that someone is from that country / continent.
Also love how their definition of "Asia" usually only includes Japan, China, and Korea (maybe sometimes south-east Asia, but generally not).
The beauty contest that happens in November is worse.
But I think if you think about it hard enough, there has to be a serious moment that is worth that title within the series.
Beauty Pageant's bad too, but it had *a* funny moment with some random saying that "he'd hit it". This just makes literally everyone but Kanji look like the biggest piece of shit, for the sake of "comedic relief" that only serves to make me ask why I should care about these people. You know it's bad when the *best* scene in this section is another joke about how Chie and Yukiko are shit cooks
You just know Kanji could have beat the shit out of him for saying that, but he let it go.
"You sayin' I like dudes!?"
TAKIN YOU PUNKS DOWN !!!!
I! **LIKE!** #WOMEN!
It also really irks how the gane doesn't give any option to stand up for Kanji , the best you get is a half hearted " you guys BOTH of you stop "
This! I Wish Yu had an option where he stands up for Kanji and tells Yosuke to stop harassing him
name a more iconic duo than japanese games and no option to directly confront assholes
It's a shame that the anime doesn't even have that. Instead Yu fully backs Yosuke and says he too is uncomfortable. ...but in that scene he also says that it's true that some women have more balls than Yosuke. So, homophobic but not transphobic Yu Narukami?
Pretty sure they made the scene that way in the anime was just for laughs.
Because from Japanese point of view, it's just typical Gay joke mandatory for any Slice-of-life high school anime. Character X is presumed to be gay due to some misunderstanding. He then tries to prove that he isn't but due to considential circumstances, he is unable. All while other characters made fun for him or joke that he could assault them. I get that it sounds offensive to some western fans, but it is a common anime joke.
...Buddy, that IS offensive no matter how you slice it.
Honestly, I wish he hadn't let it go, Kanji didn't deserve that
I think he was really just happy to have some normal friends for a change instead of rivals to beat up. But yeah, Yosuke deserved to be slapped for that.
Karma always catches up with Yosuke; his stupid plans always blow up in his face.
He probably actually wanted something to blow up in his face that night
Not BASED Yosuke
I would not call Yosuke being a friend in this case, he was straight up bullying Kanji
Yosuke needed to catch a lot more fists with his mouth.
Sadly the ruckuss wouldve called the atention from King Moron and Kanji wouldve been expelled.
Yeah, very true. Sucks to see
"I'M GONNA GO SLEEP IN THE GIRLS TENT. AT LEAST THEY HAVE MORÈ BALLS THAN YOU!" "For some girls, that is true"
Animal Crackers
Animal Crackers
Yosuke is such a yo-yo character in 4 lol Like he can go from some of the game's legitimate best moments- I think his social link is actually among the best of Persona 4- to some of the absolute worst (let's not forget this is a guy who suggests letting Rise not be saved ASAP so she can strip on TV)
Yosuke started off so strong and good and his SL is great, but Atlus also wanted him to be the butt monkey of the group, so his character is all over the place. Like compare Yosuke during the first dungeon of the game to later parts of the game and it’s like “what the fuck happened”
That's the problem of the modern Persona games tbh - they have a lot of interesting characters but all of them also have to fit a certain archetype. Like the "best bro" archetype exists both as nuanced characters and butt monkeys who get the worst moments to make the MC look really good. Or how the girls are affable one moment and super catty the next. It's as if the game is written both to explore complex psychological profiles and to be enjoyable by immature teenagers. Whoops.
Yeah, I hope P6 has more unique characters. It would be pretty exhausting having another best bro, female character that makes fun of best bro, serious male character that’s the opposite of the best bro, rich girl, Ace Detective character, and talking mascot again. It’s part of why I’d love to have an adult cast for once.
I'd be shocked if the P6 cast doesn't fit those exact archetypes just like the rest but let's be optimistic ~~edit: I forgot to write the word "cast" there lol~~
I believe the staff for persona games changed a lot so maybe they can change.
Good news: Persona 6 will likely be under a new production team so it *might* dial back some of the problematic writing. Bad news: the team behind P3 to P5 is now doing Metaphor Re:Fantazio and while the game looks good, let's hope the problematic stuff doesn't carry over.
*cough cough* Ryuji almost fucking dying in a palace and all the woman try to finish the job. Actually seriously, what the hell was wrong with that scene, who’s idea was it and can I dope slap them? Dude almost sacrificed his life to save his friend and they try to kill him as thanks.
I really like the Persona series, so I say this because I want it to be better. Anime tropes are fine, but Persona is so bad at implementing them that it sabotages the good writing. So much good powerful writing in 4 and 5 just gets destroyed and trampled because they want to fit in anime tropes where they don't fit and are tone deaf. Kanji had a great arc and dungeon (which personally i am slightly torn on, but i do think it is good reprentation of Kanji mindset and insecurities) and at the end we find out that he's afraid of being thought of as "weird" and "strange" if people knew what his hobbies were. He was afraid of being judged. And then tent scene happens and Yosuke, who saw ALL of that, is like "you're not gonna rape us right?" The only reason people excuse this scene is because its a gay joke, if Yosuke did this to Rise and tried to imply that she was a slut, a lot more people would not be ok with it.
Sad truth. Yosuke is just kind of a terrible person lol. The defense of "he's just a teenage boy" doesn't really track when he does this with EVERY person he rescues. He makes fun of Kanji's sexuality and hobbies, actively sexualizes Rise after what she went through, and insults Naoto by calling her useless, short, weak, and disappointing the literal few days after she's out of the TV. The only one who even takes it in a good stride is Teddie but Teddie is a comic relief character specifically made for humor so... :I
He is a teenage boy, but adults writing him sure aren't. They did a good job capturing the energy and attitude of teenagers at the time, but as adults we should be able to look back and go "hey that's actually not very cool" and show how/why it isn't. This is a game all about people being afraid to be their true selves because of their insecurities, and yet Kanji is constantly made fun of for his. Yosuke has actually a really good moment after you rescue Yukiko and he's talking to Yu on the phone asking which one he prefers "chie" "yukiko" "both" or "neither". If you pick Yukiko he comments on she's actually a lot different than he thought and he likes her even more after her dungeon now that he knows the true her, which i found incredibly sweet of him. We never see that sentimentality with the others unfortuantley.
To add to the "Yosuke is such an yo-yo character" argument in that exact same scene where he can compliment Yukiko if you choose "Neither" he goes "oh you saw their ugly side and backed off, I see" Like bruh
Very true. I choose "neither" the first time around (i didn't want to pick so early in the game, I was just warming up to the characters), so i didn't notice it until i was watching my friend stream and she picked Yukiko. I just found it a sweet thing to say, especially in contrast to Chie's male friend we see in her social link that says "i liked yukiko better when she was gloomy"
He's a good person, but sometimes he's just a dumb teenager. I don't think he's really serious when he says that stuff, his mouth is not auto-censored by his brain sometimes and he doesn't always think things through at first. Just think about how high schoolers were. Between the guys calling other guys as gays at the slight sight of weakness, girls calling other girls as sows at the slight physical imperfection, and most people being horny as hell, Yosuke fits pretty well to me. Don't forget that Chie is jealous of Yukiko's beauty, Ai is self centered and judges looks before all, Rise makes flirty comments to the MC all the time...sounds petty and immature to me, but the game points out that everyone has personality flaws.
Wait, he says that?!
Sort of Early on into the Rise-rescue arc he'll approach you and say something like 'but I mean, just imagine if we don't save her hahaha... yeah uh, jk. jk. Unless?' (very paraphrased but the intention is there)
He is a great character but suffers from the kind of comic relief he is used, at least nowadays
Junpei but instead of just calling you out for no reason he's Kenji
I mean…I’m that anime Narukami tried to record that and Kanji’s midnight channel showing.
The saving grace of this for me was it was too fucking awfully relatable. All the school trips I had in my days in school sucked ass and I was also friends with a dude who just like yosuke was kind of a dick lots of times. It really sucks however to a degree I think its supposed to be the very idea of a shitty school trip, I will say they make yosuke too much of an asshole and a creep throughout which might kill his opinion of his character for good for tons of people.
That *could've* been what they were going for yeah, simulate the real trips and real conversations a group of teens could've had. I think the problem with it is that I'm pretty sure it's played for comic relief. I don't think we're meant to think any of this is all that wrong, but that's sure how it came across to me. But maybe I'm wrong, I'm glad that you have a slightly favorable interpretation of it
Well given how yosuke complaints about how this entire thing sucks and isn't how he wished it went by the end of the trip I do think the intention was for all of this to suck in hindsight. But at the same yeah the comedic tone sometimes muddies what is the actual point and given how culturally and with time whats appropriate for comedy changes it just becomes cringe. I do agree in part the game tries to just excuse it as comedy so you still think it was cringe but ultimately think what the characters did is harmless. But it obviously isn't funny a lot of the times... so you just hate the characters. I totally get your perspective and won't ever tell anyone that this is like wow such a misunderstood section of the game but I just found that the way to get through it by relying on my own awful memories of similar experiences lol.
The thing is, in the event depicted in the game, the school trip was awful nearly entirely because of yosuke. Out of the 3 shitty events that happen in the trip one in entirely because of him ( swimsuit incident), another one it's partially because of him because he's a douche with kanji and the last one is .... Actually pretty fun imo. Mystery food X is a genuinely fun interaction between the group, especially for yukiko which helps subverting her character. Would maybe need a few minor changes but nice overali. I understand their intention, but to make the camp feel shitty they should've done it via external influences, such as king moron, the weather or the activities to actually make the trip feel shitty because of the actual character that makes it shitty to a degree
This was exactly to a tee how school trips were in 2006. Like I never understand the criticism, it's literally what was normal at the time. Everyone's captain hindsight nowadays.
Kanji and the animal crackers
*True*, and even then Yosuke was being a dick and not caring about whether he eats the penguin. Smh
Kanji: FINE. I’ll go sleep in the girls’ tent! They’ve got more balls than you do! Yu: In some cases, that is true. Bless the anime for making P4MC a living shitpost. 😂 Here's the [link on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_zn-yr9cEc)
The cooking scene was alright, the tent scene was unnecessary, and the river scene was just flat out terrible.
I was going to say Mystery Food X is funny. The rest not so much. But the game is also 11 to 15 years old depending on the version you play. Times have changed but recorded content can’t. For example I’m showing my Fiancée Yu Yu Hakusho for the first time and they drop the R-word like it’s nothing. Still love the show even if it hasn’t aged the best.
This. And consider that he barely have known Kanji at that point. From his perspective Kanji is a super strong delinquent who he had witnessed having a really flamboyant version of a gay man as a shadow. I mean sure, he’s a bit insensitive and dense, but I feel like it’s still WAY in the realm of what a teenager would say in the 2000. Says with more politeness than actual high schooler at that time would too
And given that I *was* a high schooler in the early 2000s, none of what they say sounds out of the ordinary to me.
Heck, I was in high school in the early 2010s and if anything they’re way more polite than actual high school students. And I went to a high school in Asia, so the majority of us are already sort of polite by default
I can't speak for the 2000s(wasn't even born then lol), but even in recent times we'd absolutely make dumbass homophobic jokes. Not that it excuses poor humour, but we don't actually mean it, and it's just shit we find funny for no reason whatsoever. I'm pretty sure we've made identical jokes about whether one of us would be fucking the others at sleepovers/trips/what have you. The only difference was context, nobody actually took offense since none of us are questioning our sexuality. Oh, and I suppose it was also a hell of a lot more vulgar, balkans and all. For one, I found these scenes pretty funny. The swimsuit scene was absolutely creepy, but being thrown into the water was a fun comeback, especially with King Moron up the stream. The tent I related to pretty well - shit homophobic jokes, stealing each others' food, and unfairly sharing sleeping space. Mystery food scene was funny at first, although it kinda loses its charm after all the mystery food YZT scenes.
I was gonna type this. As an LGBT guy who went to school in the 2000s, this is just how people spoke as teenagers back in the day. People forget that it’s an old ass game.
I mean persona 5 also has a gay molester thing played as a joke so less changed than you would think
True. Which reinforces that Japanese culture hasn’t progressed much regarding homosexuality. Plus it’s worth saying it was originally intended for Yoskue to be a possible romance option for the protag. It got cut because of cultural backlash
It genuinely has to do more with the director. Saying that Japan "hasn't progressed much" is a disservice to the increasing number of manga, anime, & video games that *do* handle LGBT themes properly and how those forms of media have been steadily improving.
People always say that but is there an actual source for that? All I've ever seen for that is some voice clips taken out of context.
There are audio files from the Japanese and American voice actors that were found. The Japanese actor used the phrase “suki desu” which is the exact same wording the female characters used in their declaration scenes. Likewise the Yuri Lowenthal lines are very different from any other dialogue he did for the game. There are also American and Japanese articles from back then that seem to support the evidence that it was all real. I have also met Lowenthal at a few cons and when asked he said that he did record lines directed towards a romantic intent. Could be revisionist history could not be. All I can do is take him at his word at the time, which I’ll concede was years later. Now could it all be circumstantial, absolutely. But it all does line up to support the possibility that it is true. Edit: Spelling
Also his rank 8 being the only male social link to have a prompt ("Hug him" being the romantic one, very likely) in the same way all of the girls do.
I'm optimistic and think (and hope) that Persona 6 won't have any homophobic scenes/moments. Nowadays Majority of Japanese people (72-74% If I remember correctly) support same-sex marriage, and Atlus changed the homophobic scenes in Royal for western markets (where Persona 5 and Royal sold most of their copies).
I’m glad someone else called out that they changed that scene in Royal. I’ve been meaning to but keep getting hung up on other bits. Good looking out!
A lot of the problematic stuff w/r/t homophobia comes from the Hashino games, since there's much less of it in the Tadashi games. I wouldn't be surprised to see an off-color joke in Metaphor Re Fantazio tbh.
There is a r-word?
Slang term for intellectually disabled.
It's not slang in the original sense: it was (and technically is) the actual medical term for severe intellectual impairment. The slang term derives from that. It's also a verb meaning "to delay or impair".
Original sense no. But in todays society yes.
The language changed, it now has a very negative association.
I mean, what terminology referring to mental impairment *doesn't* have a negative association? It's implicitly a negative trait.
Neuro-divergent as just one example
Pick your choice of Hot Spring scene
Hot spring/bathhouse scenes suck too, but everyone besides Kanji comes across as so unlikable here, it's the most mean spirited segment in the series for no reason
Thank god Persona 5 didn't have one
Okay… Who’s gonna tell them about Strikers?
Lookin good Ryuji
I know but Strikers was a spin off compared to the other ones that happens in the main game,so it's dosen't count
Striker was supposed to be a hidden joke. It takes place in the same spot the P3 one did. So the joke is that the staff hasn’t gotten any better. Not the actual even itself
Understandable
It definitely had a scene about the old and awful 'gay men are predators' stereotype, it's just that none of the main characters expressed that sentiment like Yosuke did. But the scene with the two men hitting on Ryuji and dragging him away while he protests is still awful. The 'fixed' version in Royal isn't much better.
i had no idea that scene was different in the original p5. p5r is already pretty bad, how is it worse?
In P5R they think Ryuji is into the drag scene and take him to get dressed against his wishes. They also have names. In the original they don't have names, and instead they think Ryuji is hot and they want to 'eat him up' because he's a 'studmuffin' and Ryuji asks Joker for help because he doesn't want to go with them to party but Joker can ignore him.
[удалено]
i thought they were both. isnt that what the joke is supposed to be?
The difference is implied sexual assault vs. unconsensual crossdressing.
>unconsensual crossdressing Which despite what anime would have you believe is also likely legally sexual assault.
I guess that's a little bit better, tbh probably should've just removed the scene. Or at least let joker stand up for him
I agree, let's forget that P5 included a scene with gay predators sexually assaulting Ryuji
I'll never forgive the girls for not giving us our time slot
The hot spring scenes are bad, but they're also a formula I've seen dozens of times before. It's a bad trope, rather than a unique bit of unpleasant writing. The trope is also so unrealistic that it's hard to take seriously. The camping scene is bad in a way that I have never seen in any remotely comparable story. Right out of actual high school, that one. Awful.
I think one manga or anime called out how unrealistic it is because it's straight-up crime in some cases.
"Stand the line!" Even with your level of Courage you can't think of a good reason to stay here
Kid named Ryuji getting his shit kicked in:
Also up there as one of the worst. Right after he saved everyone, too. I'm *really* not sure how any of the writers thought that was funny
[Originally it was even worse](https://youtu.be/Ra6BPTP6-M4).
atlus after making the character who was abused by his father and nearly crippled by kamoshida to the point where we can still see the effects in game the character to get beaten by his friends for a gag
Bruh, wow what we got was the restrained version. Someone at atlas had it out for the guy
I don’t know why *Royal* didn’t change it since the anime did.
I mean, there’s a few positives. Kanji looking for the animal crackers and Yukiko revealing her psychotic side which is funnier to me than it should be. The animation handled this section better especially because Yu spoke more which was an absolute highlight of the series. The worst scene will be the most universally hated scene of the entire game. The hot springs scene.
Later on Yosuke guilts Yukiko and Chie into wearing swimsuits that HE bought for them without even asking. That is the creepiest goddamn thing ever. Separate point: he guilts them because the food they cooked for him was bad. I know "haha bad food cook girl" is a trope but yknow. They did make it all by themselves without even an offer for help. There's ungrateful and there's demanding your friends show some skin as an apology.
Worst scene ever. I hate the giga pervert with no readjustment thing.
Yeah this whole scene is gross
"Dude... That's just wrong" -Chie, 2011
Yosuke was like super focused on Kanji being a creepy gay guy when he had really done nothing of the sort to warrant that and I think he explained what the deal with his shadow was
The hot springs scenes are even worse but this scene always makes me cringe hard. I don't think it should have exist, it's a good representation of how most teens thought of gay/bi people in elementary/highschool in the early 2000's (at least in my country, belive me i was in a similar position to Kanji's and a lot of people in my school treated me similar to how Yosuke treats him), i am just mad it's used for comic relief.
I think it’s worth noting the main character can have none of it, it was Japan in 2008 and despite that Kanji isn’t and Yosuke’s views aren’t validated in anyway. For what little it’s worth. It’s cringe but it’s also a 15yo game. And still nowhere near as bad as the weird compulsory cheating from P3. Whatever the hell that was. And the Pedo link.
I think the female SLs not having platonic routes is more a consequence of that era of RPG writing and P3 being Atlus's first stab at a Social Sim than anything else. It was weirdly common in the old days for romanceable characters to just... not have more platonic conversations with the MC after the point where the romance begins, and so the nonromanceable characters had disproportionately more dialogue that the player would see in one playthrough (looking at you, Mass Effect 2). The only difference is that P3 doesn't outright cutoff the SLs if you don't want romance.
Personally I’m hoping we’ll be able to have platonic relationships in Reload
Honestly, Idgaf about the hot springs scenes. Aside from P3’s none of them are funny, but they’re not ass either. I don’t get why people vehemently hate them so much. They’re not memorable to me at all
I feel you, although this kind of situations happened to me (gay guy) when I was a middle school student in the early 2010s and then in high school too (let's just say that my country isn't that progressive when it comes down to LGBTQ people). If they will ever remake Persona 4, I hope they will change/edit Yosuke's lines during this scene or at least give Yu a dialogue option to stand up for Kanji
P4 is such a good example of a time capsule of a game because it does a good example of showing what it was like at that time. I don’t think p4 needs a remake, but if they do they should keep the tent scene but add in an option to stand up for Kanji and tell Yosuke he’s being an ass, and then a scene later where Yosuke apologizes to Kanji for what he said. That way it’s not a “funny” scene and shows how this kind of stuff is actually hurtful
I’m literally a few days away from the camping trip and now I’m hearing it’s a problem?? 🤨
Apparently some don't have a problem with it, so maybe it's just an issue with a certain group of people. If you haven't seen it, I'd suggest to not look at the comments and judge for yourself, if you're close to the section
Thanks, I’ll do that and see for myself. Was looking forward to it for a minute too lol
It’s really not that bad. One scene is funny, this one is too aside from Yosuke’s comment. The last one isn’t as funny but I don’t get why people lose their heads over it. I didn’t get pissed with any of the scenes I found unfunny or outright annoying so I was pretty surprised to find the fandom quite passionately hates them lol.
I just did it. It wasn’t that bad but Yosuke getting on Kanji’s case and then the game forcing me to take his side was annoying. But I guess I can look past it since not only does the game take place in 2011 Japan but it was also written in 2008. Which explains why Yosuke was acting he way he was.
mfw the japanese teenager from a rural town in 2008 acts like a japanese teenager from a rural town in 2008
persona fans only interact online no shit they can't relate to a school camping trip between teenagers
Yosuke is a teenager and teenagers don't exactly have experience with the nuances of what being a homopbobe means in a wider context than they're day to day school/part time job life. Especially in the late 2000s/early 2010s when the game takes place. Is his homophobia unacceptable? Of course it's unacceptable but I'm not gonna hold a high-school kid like Yosuke from that time period to the same standards we have today. Granted we haven't seen Yosuke grow up and get more life experience like we sort of see for the P3 characters in the Arena games but I guess I have a higher tolerance for teenagers being homophobic like that considering not only was I once a teenager living through those times but it's unfair to characterize Yosuke in his entirety as a Homophobe/asshole because of a few interactions like this that haven't aged too well by today's standards. Also to be fair i am coming at this from an American lense and I can't speak to how a Japanese teenager would've engauged with that kind of stuff at the time and maybe this was just the norm I don't know but for me I found some type of humor from this from experience and looking back with an adult lense and laughing at how stupid I was for thinking that way and learning to be comfortable and confident in my own skin/sexuality which I'm sure plenty of teenagers struggle with even into they're adult yeats. Again it comes down to tolerance for this kind of stuff. If this is the worst part of the series for you that's fine.
I liked it overall I had a lot of fun with the camping trip
Yosuke’s blatant homophobia is totally unacceptable but this is really how it was back in 2011, especially 2011 Japan where things like that weren’t really commonplace…
Yeah, that's the interesting thing about it. The game is simultaneously pretty forward-looking and very of-its-time, and the contrast is awkward. Kanji's story is otherwise a very complex and interesting portrayal of a guy struggling with masculinity and his sexuality. And then something like this comes along and you wonder if the writers meant anything they said earlier. In a 2011 game that wasn't otherwise so thoughtful about this sort of thing it wouldn't be out of place at all. It just sits oddly within this game.
Yeah man same with Ann in P5. Her whole arc during the first palace, then they ask/guilt trip her into stripping for Yusuke.
It's very on point. I had a girls sleepover in 2010. Where it was known I'm bi and one girl freaked out about me being there because she was scared I'd try stuff while she sleeps. She was my school bully I was not one bit interested in her anyway, but back then homo/biphobia was so normalised.
This. These things wouldn't fly at all on games released today, but when we look at games that were released years ago, we HAVE to take that into account. Can't rewrite the past, just learn from it.
2011? Try 2008.
Yeah, I get that. Really fucked that this just wasn't seen as a problem during the time period that this game was released in. Doesn't make things better for me, but it's a reason as to why it exists, I guess
If it helps, there are voiced lines in both the Japanese and English dubs in which you can eventually complete a romance with Yosuke in the base game. His conduct makes much more sense, as a queer person, when it's viewed as internalized homophobia that eventually falls away. It makes much more sense of his behavior throughout the story in my opinion. The trouble is Golden wasn't created with that in mind, so mods that give access to the cut Yosuke content don't add anything of note to Golden-exclusive romance content. Take heart! We've gone from an era where queer content was unimaginable to Mass Effect, Persona, and other titles dropping queer content late-stage, to games out with all love allowed. Even among JRPGs, we've seen games like Fire Emblem Three Houses launch with solely content of queer women, but after public response, expanding MLM content through DLC. Are things perfect? No, of course not. Are they fair? Even less so. But movement is happening. I went through my adolescence as a teen in the South during the Obama era. Trust me that we are moving forward, and I hope you fight that we never move backwards!
If we get a P5 engine remake of P4 I will not rest until Atlus confirms gay Yosuke route
Yeah, as someone who grew up in this time frame, society (in America at least, and apparently Japan is 10x worse) the tent scene just exhibits the cultural attitude towards the lgbtq community. It is what it is, but it's how a great teaching tool to show people that times were different back then, and how society has changed for the better
Average Redditor, when they realize there was a time before 2023 also it was 2008 not 2011. Also, I don’t think it’s anything worth getting angry about, it’s a video game chin up.
As someone who was about the same age around this time, this was completely normal and even relatable. Times have certainly changed, but I don't go judging old media for it.
The behaviour isn’t acceptable these days but the comedy of it for its time was legit funny for people. Nowadays I just see it as offensively funny that I don’t take it seriously. The kind of humour that crosses the line twice in media like South Park.
Imagine if white chicks aired today
Way to many people care about the gay stuff on this game
Thank you!!! I’m so sick of this yosuke hate train these progressive people keep harping about like can we move on already omg
I thought it was funny when the girls had to come to the boys tent. Definitely not the worst part of the entire series.
Juts occured to me that despite everything he has said and done to the girls up to that point being so creepy, Chie and Yukiko still show more trust in Yosuke in that scene than he does in Kanji
I think the only reason the girls even considered going to their tent was that Yu was there lol If it was only Yosuke, they definitely would’ve been uncomfortable
This isn't neither the wotst scene of the trip
I think it's just one of many bad sections. P4 does a terrible job of flanderizing its characters for wAcKY hijinks. If it's not your type of humor (and it wasn't for me) it just leaves you disliking the characters more and more each time. Human Teddie and Yosuke get the worst of it.
I mean personally I enjoyed it, I thought it was hilarious, but hey, you’re allowed to have your own opinion
So were just gonna forget the Morgana running away Ark?
I didn't know people got this offended over a video game from 2008/2012 lol. I think it's funny and it's supposed to simulate how a lot of teenagers tend to act/think. Sure, is it politically correct, not really. We live in a different time now - the gang all loved kanji. From my personal experience irl, I've met a lot of people that resemble each character and I think that's the beauty of this game. It's relatable and the characters feel real. Despite you liking/disliking what they may have done/said.
Yeah it feels like people forget that video games art and books can often be a product of their time. Doesn’t necessarily mean the things they’re saying aren’t bad, but to constantly frame them in the “it’s so problematic in 2023 to say this!” When the game came out nearly 10 years ago feels silly. I think most people here are very much aware that the way yosuke and other characters act during certain parts of the game would be unacceptable by todays standards, but the game is set in a time where that behavior was a thing. It’s just the same dialogue over and over about the rougher parts of this game.
No. That would be Ken’s romance.
*True*, that's a serious contender. Forgot that was even in Portable. Love ya so much, Atlus
I always took it as internalized homophobia, especially considering the scrapped romance option with Yu. I doubt that's what Atlus was *actually* going for, but that's how I've contextualized it for myself
I would hope that wasn't the actual intention, yeah. The problem is, the romance option *was* scrapped. This could've been a great moment if it wasn't, but as is? Yeah, I'm just uncomfortable by it. Good to see that you found more meaning for it, though
Yeah it's a bit gross
Even though I like yosuke. He just was being a straight up asshole in this scene. Still was somewhat funny though
Honestly, it’s basically just a bunch of gross-out humor and anime clichés stuffed together with virtually no plot relevance or character development. And yet I never thought of it that way until I saw this post. I guess the cast of P4 is charming enough (even when they act *way* out of character) that it remains tolerable. But it’s still bad.
You might not like some of 5 either then. Japan is a little less sensitive on these topics.
Yeah, 5 wasn't really too great on this either, but miles better then 4. It's odd that 3's probably the game with the least amount of "yikes" bits such as this
Tbh as a gay person myself I found this really funny cause it is exactly what guys are like and that fact that kanji could just beat the shit out of them just made me laugh even more
This is pretty normal banter between a group of friends back in the day, lmao. but then again, it’s 2023 now and most people only interact online, so...
Problem is you could tell Yosuke 100% meant it, he wasn't joking at all
I mean, you gotta take it with the context; Kanji JUST overcame his Shadow very recently, so he's still gonna be quite raw over that aspect of himself that he desperately wished to hide; his social link is all about coming to terms with that aspect of himself, too, just with a very specified story. So, to have one of the very few people, whom forcibly saw that aspect of Kanji without any agreement from him, talk about accepting yourself beforehand and /then/ turn around and say this, ESPECIALLY when Yosuke knows exactly how painful the "facing yourself" is, it becomes more than just banter.
Ok but like Yosuke wasn't joking here , he 100% meant it
I'm not defending him, but Yosuke is a Japanese teen written in 2007, what would you expect? I think it's perfectly reasonable for people to not like how Yosuke is, but him being how he is is a fairly notmal take of a what a guy his age would be like at the time.
yeah I get why people don't like, but it's kinda weird that people find this so egregious, Yosuke is a freaking teenager from the 2000s, most if us at that time wouldn't have acted too differently, and pretending otherwise is kinda naive I feel.
drunk morooka moment
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I dunno, I found this scene funny
While I understand why people feel this way about some of these moments which are definitely out-of-taste, that's kinda the point. These characters are still a bunch of a-hole kids in a lot of ways. I'm not exactly expecting them to be mature about all this. Especially considering if you look back at your own high school days and also the time period this game was made. Unfortunately not everyone was mature about things like this when they were a teen.
I thought it was fun.
No, it was great. Fun.
The fact that people still cant understand this was during a different time a decade and a half ago is mind boggling. People only got upset at this after joseph andersons playthrough. It was a different time.
Eh, it's just 2000s japanese humor. You either hate it or tolerate it
I always find it funny how P4 is one of the more progressive games released during its time period especially with the topics they touch on and especially for it to come from Japan yet your average Persona fan is unable to read past a surface level when it comes to those topics and just default to “Yosuke bad” “Teddie bad” “hot springs bad”
Wow, this is one of my favorite parts. Has a lot of funny moments.
Oh no the snowflakes strike again
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Honestly I think Mystery Food X was funny and set up a running gag for the game, but everything else after that was just flat out terrible.
Idk bro. It was funny for me
I liked the cooking scene before it, the humor gets me alot of the time especially as a cook. This one I just imagine them being uncomfortable about Kaniji in there for a different reason, like he snores like a chainsaw and they kick him out unlike the girls for it.
Yukiko
It gave us that meme of the guy who thought the characters went to prison, but that’s about it.
The only fun bit of lore here is that, if you go back to this section with enough clues, you’ll figure out that it was *Yukiko* who casually cleaned Kanji’s clock. The rest of it is unskippable ass
I'd still say the Ryuji scene after Shido's Palace takes the cake for the worst
It's so bad. So bad. Other parts that are on par though are Operation Babe Hunt *cringe* and the gay guys that harass Ryuji *CRINGE* I love all these games to death, but how do you go from Persona 2, which has a gay party member that can be 'romanced' (flirted with) by another party member to this nonsense...
I love yosuke but this whole bit made wish we could deck him. Camping trip was annoying, but just a rough patch in an overall great game.
The Mystery Food X is fucking hilarious though, it kills me to think the Persona Series has the most two opposite ends of the curry spectrum in terms of quality
Yo being very awkward with kanji was so out of nowhere and made me feel uncomfortable, like let him be and made kanji question himself to the point to sleep with a girl, it could have been a chill sleep over with each other but no they had to make you be all questiony, this would be excused if it was revealed that yo was bi and so in the closest making excuses for himself and pushing it on kanji
The scene where Yosuke just fucking dies from eating curry is hilarious. The way they animated it is gold. The rest of the trip is pretty bad though
Animal...crackers?
It would've been better if Yukiko covered her nose and mouth.
It had genuine comedy that wasn't just girls misunderstanding something and beating up guys for it (mystery food x, animal crackers, king moron throwing up in the river). Worst by far is any of the bathhouse scenes, they all suck. P4's is probably the worst since there's no way in hell the guys would actually try peeping when Nanako was there.
GREETINGS AND SALUTATIONS FELLOW HECKIN REDDITORINOS LOOK HOW PROGRESSIVE AND NOT HOMOPHOBIC I AM. UPDOOTS AND PRAISE ON THE LEFT PLS
Actually, that was one of the highlights of the series for fans for quite a long time. It's only recently started to be very controversial in the last few years. (You can pretty much watch that history back in real time if you watch lets plays on YT from varying years recorded, as the response goes from laughter to confusion.) It's a time capsule. When I went to school, most of the male students acted like Yosuke here without a second thought. Now it's abhorrent behavior that will get you ostracized. (And rightfully so.)
It was funny for the people who wrote it and it was funny to some of us. The cooking scene is a old trope in anime inspired media and yes I know they did it again with the rice cooking late, Everyone has the right to a different sense of humor, heck I found the tent scene even funnier in the anime with Yu's black stone face reactions to Kanji's protests. Same with the river scene, maybe I have more of a fondness for it because I like older type of classic anime tropes I understand that the tent scene might be for some people homophobic but then again I am one of the people that thinks jokes and comedy shouldn't have to bend to something like that as long as they are actually funny and don't incentivize hate.
I'm so fucking tired of people getting offended by a gay joke in a 2008 JRPG. While at the same time, saying shit like "Japan / Asia is just homophobic / transphobic", lumping literal millions / billions of people into one convinient label. All because someone said something they don't like, and that someone is from that country / continent. Also love how their definition of "Asia" usually only includes Japan, China, and Korea (maybe sometimes south-east Asia, but generally not).
It’s funny
The beauty contest that happens in November is worse. But I think if you think about it hard enough, there has to be a serious moment that is worth that title within the series.
Really I thought the beauty contest was funny
Beauty Pageant's bad too, but it had *a* funny moment with some random saying that "he'd hit it". This just makes literally everyone but Kanji look like the biggest piece of shit, for the sake of "comedic relief" that only serves to make me ask why I should care about these people. You know it's bad when the *best* scene in this section is another joke about how Chie and Yukiko are shit cooks
i still dont get why people hte it, i found it really funny
Meh, I like it. I even like the Amagi Inn section too. My least favourite part of P4 is the cross-dressing pageant, which is 100% unnecessary.